WEBVTT

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[sil.]

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The real reason for debt has
nothing to do with economics

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and it has nothing to do with finance,
it\'s all about politics. I don\'t think

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there\'s really any evidence. We\'ve been able to use the strings on World
Bank loans to force countries to do things they don\'t want to do.

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In most poor countries, they
got bureaucrats that steal,

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you know, everything before
it can be of benefit.

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[music]

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They are ordinary people,

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with an extraordinary ambition.

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What Christine Nantongo and her
friends want is an end to corruption,

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in a country where it\'s too often a way of life.
Today, they\'ve taken to the streets of Rukungiri

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in South West Uganda with the boys
and the girls in the local band.

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Their message:

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Corruption means this country of wealth and
talent can\'t play to its natural strengths.

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[music]

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When we talk about corruption
in Uganda: combination

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- big time, small time, integrated -

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all kinds of corruption. We also,
as we campaign against corruption,

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highlight that corruption where
government officials are paid

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where work is not done. They spend all their time doing
private work, and yet they occupy a public office.

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Corruption is a serious problem in Uganda.

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Christine is from the Uganda
Debt Network - the UDN -

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an NGO which tries to make sure the country\'s scarce
resources go to the poor and not to corrupt officials.

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Under a debt relief program
coordinated by the World Bank,

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Uganda\'s been let off
60% of the $120 million

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it pays to service foreign debt every year.
Christine and her friends in the UDN

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- Uganda\'s informal \"Debt Police\" -
want to check the money Uganda\'s saved

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gets through to the places that need
it - like the Rukingiri Health Centre.

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For over 20 years, doctors here have
had to do without running water.

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Now they\'ve been able to build a new water tower, paid
for with money that had been earmarked to pay interest

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on international debts but which
can now be spent fighting poverty.

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These young mothers and their children now
have clean water when they most need it.

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And in a country where 16 out
of 100 children die under five,

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clean water is a matter
of life or death. Inside,

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Christine checks the
water really is working.

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There\'ve been plenty of times in other clinics
when local officials have ripped off resources

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before they\'ve reached people who
need it - but no such problem here.

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I think it\'s a good…

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good job done. To make sure kids
like two-year-old Valentina

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and her mother really do benefit from debt
relief, Uganda\'s paying the cash it\'s saved

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into a special pot called the \"Poverty
Action Fund\". So how are you feeling now?

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And it\'s the Poverty Action Fund
cash that\'s helping these patients.

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Debt relief has really changed

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the performance of this health centre in
terms of provision of water - safe water.

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Now water can run directly
into the maternity ward,

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the washrooms, the consulting rooms.
They did not have flowing water before.

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The money that comes into the Poverty
Action Fund, which is debt relief money,

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also provides for subsidy on drugs, so access
to drugs is now easier for the community.

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The health centre services over 30,000
people. So they\'ve all benefited?

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They\'ve all benefited. From debt relief?

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From debt relief - yes. I really now feel that debt relief can make a lot of difference.
Christine\'s based a day\'s drive from the Rukingiri hills - in the capital, Kampala -

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and she relies on local volunteers to help
check debt relief money really is going

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tso the right people. Monitoring where the money
goes is an important, though not an easy task.

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We need to sensitize the people. We need to

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create awareness within the
communities that whatever services

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being made in their areas - they belong to
them. They are the owners of those services

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and therefore they should have all the
access that is the information - yeah, yeah.

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Hmm…hmm. That\'s why they should participate in making sure that the
systems work for them. That… That… That duty is going to cost you a lot

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in terms of mobilizing the people, in
terms of facilitating the monitors.

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It\'s not an easy job.

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We have found it very difficult.
In fact, moving, transport

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is really a hindrance because -
I\'m lucky, I have a motorcycle,

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but most of our monitoring committee
members don\'t have, and even then the fuel

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- the fuel had escalated so
high we can\'t really manage.

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So we are limited in movement.

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Otherwise we would be able to move to schools, to
institutions, to people - if we had the means.

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But today, with Christine\'s van, they
can check out the local primary school.

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Good morning, my name
is Christine Nantongo.

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There are rumors that debt relief money here
is not doing all the headmaster would wish.

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Yes, we are glad to be here. Thank you.
We are mostly here

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to see what the debt relief money has done.

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The head explains what debt relief
money has brought the school.

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We have got many things apart
from getting hard cash.

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We have got textbooks.
We have a medical kit

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and so we have it - we have
some medicines in stock.

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And since you started getting
the… the money from…?

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Things like… Things like this table. Yes. But, as
the more sparsely furnished classrooms testify,

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the debt relief money channeled through
the Poverty Action Fund only goes so far.

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This fund, which has been channeled

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through the Uganda government, has so far put up this
- what we call magnificent two classroom building.

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Really, it has come to our rescue

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so much so that we are too congested. So
that debt relief money has actually meant

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a better classroom for your kids? It has.
It has done these plus textbooks.

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But what we are lacking as
of now is the furniture

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for the pupils - they just sit on
the floor. Though a good floor,

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but they have nothing to write on. What
does that mean for their education?

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Oh, it means… That is a disaster
in a way because they can\'t,

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as infant as they are, they cannot
write properly without where to place

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their books for good handwriting.

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So you\'ve got a classroom, but there\'s nothing for them
to write on? It\'s just a room for nothing to write on.

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We have books, yes; we have
students; we have teachers.

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But furniture - no. Outside,
Christine finds the same problem

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- the new resources made available by debt relief
help - but don\'t always help quite enough.

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Across Uganda, its estimated two million
extra pupils have been enrolled

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because of debt relief and here they\'re building a
block to train some of the teachers who\'ll be needed.

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Close by, the pupils\' old toilets

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have been replaced. So before…? Before
we were provided with this facility,

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we used this one and this one.

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And there was a lot of problems, especially
with both girls and boys sharing one,

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but now at least we have some relief.

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But while there are new toilets, there\'s still no running water. As
for collecting rainwater - well, there\'s a rain tank, but no gutters.

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What we need now is water to use…

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Yes. So they can\'t… They have nowhere
even to wash their hands when they are…

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We are lacking water mainly. We have the tank
but we have no gutters. But gutters are cheap.

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What do they say? No - even as cheap
as they are, we have no funds for it.

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The debt relief is getting through,

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because we have seen that the money comes to the
district officials and the headmaster has shown us that

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the money is actually utilized to provide these
children with adequate shelter for them to be taught.

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So, to be blunt, it\'s not being
creamed off - the money,

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the debt relief is getting through to these kids? It is
getting through to them. And you\'re able to check that?

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Yes, we are able to check that. The monitoring committee has actually looked
at the figures and have seen that the money has been utilized for that purpose

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in many of the districts - including this one. But there\'s still
a lot more that needs to be done, clearly? There is a lot more

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to be done, because these children need the
water; we need to have enough teachers

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to feed into the increased
numbers of students; and so on.

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The kids are happy to draw water
themselves, but it\'s four kilometers away.

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Here the basics of life are still a luxury.

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Water has to be carried

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back to school and back home.
Debt relief cash

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may bring these kids a few better classrooms
but, as Christine knows, it\'s no substitute

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for economic development - and a thriving
economy could be within Uganda\'s reach.

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The country, after all, has an often
easy-to-come-by natural wealth.

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[sil.]

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And while there is malnutrition, it\'s often
because children are fed the wrong food

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rather than because of drought or famine. So the
best thing for Uganda\'s future generations,

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some say, would be for the country to be
developing a thriving free market economy

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- and not to keep relying on aid, or debt relief
or any other kind of handout from the West.

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[sil.]

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During our tour of Rukingiri
with the Uganda Debt Network,

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we stopped to show Christine and her colleagues interviews
with two leading voices in the debate over debt relief

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- supporter Anne Pettifor and first
Steve Hanke - who\'s strongly opposed

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to letting countries off interest
payments on their foreign debt.

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We have a big political bandwagon going
full speed now in favor of debt relief

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- everyone from U2 to the Pope is for it -
so it\'s a little bit hard to squeeze in

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with a dissident voice on the issue.
I think, however,

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reality requires a little bit of skepticism

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about this whole project and whether it\'s going
to do any good for the impoverished people

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that are involved in so-called debt relief.
Why are you so skeptical?

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Well, I\'m skeptical because debt relief
really is nothing more than foreign aid

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wrapped in a new package. And
foreign aid in the past has led to

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low levels of economic
freedom, lots of corruption,

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no civil liberties, few
political liberties.

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All of these things in a package
always lead to very low levels

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of economic growth and prosperity.
So if you\'re injecting

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more foreign aid, another form of foreign
aid, it might move things backward

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- in fact I think it probably will move
things backward. So I remain very skeptical,

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and… and in fact opposed to the
whole notion of debt relief.

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I think it\'s a… it\'s a grand fraud.
But wouldn\'t the creditor nations,

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the World Bank and the IMF, say that they
are now trying to impose conditionalities

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- not just a market reform but accountancy
and transparency? We\'ve heard this song

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ever since the first drop of foreign
aid ever went to any country

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- that there would be controls,
accountability, conditionality.

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And the… And the foreign aid… most of the foreign
aid, literally, has gone into Swiss bank accounts

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or gone into crony bank accounts of one sort
or another or gone to the military to buy

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more military equipment. Campaigner Anne
Pettifor concedes corruption is a danger,

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but says it can be overcome.

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When we began our campaign, many Africans and many Latin Americans
came to us and said, \"Don\'t write off the debts. We know that

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our corrupt elites will put them back into
British and Swiss banks or into American banks.

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They will not go to the people. We therefore
want you to impose very tough conditions

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to ensure this money goes to the poor.\"
But, they said, those conditions

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cannot be run from Washington. It\'s not
possible to sit in Washington and watch whether

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or not our local elites are spending the money
on schools and on sanitation for the elderly.

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You\'ve got to empower us to do that
locally. And we agree with that.

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And we… we believe local people are the best people
to monitor whether or not their local elites

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are doing the right thing by the money.
This time we\'re told it\'s different

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because there will be monitoring - there is monitoring -
to make sure that countries don\'t get the prize of debt

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relief before they have some kind
of transparency and accountability.

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Well, I mean, if… if you believe… And most of them are not getting
the money because of that. If you believe in the tooth fairy,

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that\'s your prerogative. Isn\'t a
group like the Uganda Debt Network

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- who are trying to monitor at a grass roots
level that money really does go to the poor

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after debt relief - I mean, aren\'t they doing
exactly what you\'re calling for? Well, I… I, again,

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I would rather

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award the prize after the race is completed.
I want to wait and see if these NGOs

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like the Uganda Debt Relief
Network can actually live up

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to their promises. Historically,
none… none of this has ever worked.

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I think the only thing that can possibly help
them over the long run are vibrant economies

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and the only way you get a vibrant economy
is to have a free… free market economy

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and have a society where you\'ve got
civil liberties and political freedoms.

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What do you make of all that? About
Professor Steve? What I would say

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is that maybe the system of loaning –

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the… the people, the
governments responsible

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for discharging these… these
loans - could rather be advised.

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Like, say now, we can see
the element of monitoring,

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the communities getting involved so that
corruption could be checked totally

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– that… that could be a sure way of
ensuring that whatever aid comes is put

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to the right use, and that the communities
benefit. If he could come here

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and look at places that we\'ve been to,
and see how even the little relief

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that has been given can change lives of people - then he
would see that it\'s not fraud. Do you believe, Warren,

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that you can convince ordinary people
debt relief money can come to them?

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Definitely, yes. And this one
is… we have got examples,

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because since 1998 when we had the -

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I think the first debt relief - and it started
coming, trickling to the grass roots.

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People now can have an example
of what it can be like

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- though it is still on a limited scale

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- they can see what can actually be done.

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What the Uganda Debt Network want
is not less debt relief, but more

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- and the reason is not just the
poverty of the towns and countryside.

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Christine\'s friend Alice has taken
her to visit an ageing grandmother

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who lives close by. Her husband\'s
died, and so have her children -

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victims of AIDS. That\'s the grandpa,

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but he died about 15 years ago. And
all those children are now dead.

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So nobody\'s around. They\'re all dead.

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Now the children are on their own with their grandmother
- just seven of Uganda\'s one million AIDS orphans.

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What\'s going to happen to these
kids if she passes away?

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She will leave them here. Nobody…
There\'s no way she can say because…

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They will be left here, because there\'s no way
she can say - there\'s no more she can do.

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She\'ll have to do what she can, but at the
end the Lord will look after the children.

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[sil.]

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You see, what they use
their catering system

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- when they are cooking, drinking
food - all their plates, saucepans

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and they cook from that
house - that little one.

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In school, some of these children
have nothing to bring for lunch.

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You know, they don\'t have breakfast and they have nothing
so they come and find what the lady has prepared.

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And I don\'t think she can afford to
feed them twice - lunch and supper.

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The visit has been proof for Christine that
Uganda should not just have the interest

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on its debts forgiven, but it should
have its debts cancelled altogether

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- all $3.7 billion of them. Well,
this family lives in abject poverty

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- they have no safe water
near, they have no parenting,

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they have no adequate education

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because they spend all the day doing domestic
chores and go to school when they are tired.

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The current conditions in this home are not
the kind of home that a child would live in.

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And I think the Western world can afford
to give a decent life to these children

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by cancelling the debt. That\'s what you want to see - the foreign debt
cancelled to help kids like these? Yes, we now want total cancellation

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- to give hope to the new generation.

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In the village, the band
reaches its destination:

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a rally against corruption.

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
The villagers know debt
cancellation will remain a dream

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:55.000
unless the critics are silenced
and corruption stopped.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
Led by a trained actor, villagers are
putting on an anti-corruption play.

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
It\'s about a party-loving village
priest who ingratiates himself

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
with local politicians.

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
The real priest looks on, amused - the satire\'s not
aimed at him - but it\'s still pretty credible,

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
as every onlooker knows. And then expenditure…
Especially when the priest wangles a job

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
as a teacher. Now entertainment - yes,
entertainment: one million point five!

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
And has the chance to fiddle
the hospitality budget.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
Now… Now the total income is seven
million, seven hundred and fifty thousand!

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
He tries in vain to balance the books.
And then you show an expenditure:

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
five million thirty thousand - only! This
time it\'s the local headmaster who knows

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
that while his honesty\'s not in question - there
are other teachers who behave just like this one.

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
This is my school! You understand?

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
Finally, the plain-clothes
policewoman comes to call.

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
You could see that he was fidgeting with
the figures. There are many officials

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
- headmasters - teachers
like that, are there?

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
They are like that, and this play actually - in fact, does a lot. It
does a lot to those who are like that. What are you hoping to achieve?

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
The total change of such people who
are found in these malpractices.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:30.000
They will change.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
And now we are very poor;
poverty is on our back!

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
Poverty is on our back!

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
Fellow Ugandans,

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:58.000
let\'s be united and fight poverty! Corruption in the
education system, corruption in the civil service of Uganda,

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
corruption in the public service of Uganda!

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
Fellow Ugandans, let\'s be united

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
and fight poverty!

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
(inaudible) Ugandans, brought Uganda
into a long ditch of debt begging!

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
The top officials, through
their misuse of public funds

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
and embezzlement, find
a rise to the economy

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
and make Uganda a beggar from the
international organizations. (inaudible).

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
Fellow Ugandans, let\'s be united

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
and fight poverty!

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
Fellow Ugandans,

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
let\'s be united

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
and fight poverty!

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
The reason why we are now launching the grass
roots anti-corruption campaign is so that you,

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
the people of Rukungiri, and all
Ugandans, participate in seeing

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
that the resources benefit all the people.
You have a role to play in ensuring

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
that you are beneficiaries. That grassroots
anti-corruption campaign is a campaign

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
to arouse the people to take the
responsibility to ensure that we all benefit

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
from both debt relief resources and other
national resources that the government

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
and others mobilize from elsewhere. And I
look forward to sharing with you. Thank you.

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
[music]

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
Slowly, hearts and minds are changing. Uganda\'s
young generation wants a corruption-free country.

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
If they achieve it, they\'ll expect
the West to cancel the debts

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:55.000
that still cloud their future.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:43.000
[sil.]