WEBVTT

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I think it\'s a fascinating problem. I
think that behavior itself is quite

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fascinating. The ways in which the
reasoning and the reasons for saving

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is the same as it is for other people. It\'s
just that the way in which those reasons are

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applied is different. I think people who
have this problem were fascinating. I enjoy

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talking to them that they\'re ah, all different kinds
of people, but yet there are some, there are some

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quality about them that makes them more fascinating
to me. My collection is mostly stuff that

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could be used at some point in the future. The big question is, will
it be used? Packrat just pile things up, coz they want their space for

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themselves. So if they did pile
everything around the space and

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they could get in to where
they were... the space

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and nobody else can. My name
is Kris Britt Montag and

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I\'m the daughter of a packrat.
I\'m doing this project

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because when my father died,
our house was so full of

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pissed collection as we put it politely

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that it was just completely traumatic for
us to try to clean it up and organize

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everything, not to mention how, how it
was living with it, before that. But

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particularly, when he died, I
think it was just shocking

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how much work it was and how,
how much disarray there was

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and how many things hadn\'t been taking
care of that that should have been.

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[music] My father

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was born in the early \'20s and he
was a child during the depression,

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you know, a lot of people think that, that\'s
connected to packratting and he went to Kings

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Point which is at Long Island.
And he worked

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as an engineer on oil tankers. And

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he was delivering supplies
there in Vietnam and he was

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delivering like grain(ph) to Russia in the \'80s and
so it\'s really interesting. He got to go all over

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the world. He always brought us stuff
back and it was really cool. Then

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ultimately, he was forced to retire
and he came home and that was

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difficult. Part of the reason that it was
difficult is as a merchant marine you go away

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for months at a time. Ah, and so
you\'re not with your family and then

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like in our case my mother the mother
and father. And then my father would

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come home and wanna take his place
as the head of the family and ah,

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there\'d be a lot of conflict over that. So... but
it would only be for three months and then he would

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go away again. That when he retired, I think it was
like everybody was just not knowing how to like

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be a family, like that. He had manners.
I mean, ah, he was

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ah, when you saw him meet
somebody new or whatever it is

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ah, strikingly ah, plight for
a gentleman like. Sometimes

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he was away for nine months out
of the year. So my mother, with

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five children, my older sister
had gone off to college but

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ah, it was a battle keeping us busy and
keeping us right in school and stuff.

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He didn\'t have an enjoyable life.
Why? I don\'t know.

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I think he enjoyed it when he was on the ship. Yeah,
because he was away from his responsibilities. He loved...

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Well, but he... ah, they would... a different type
of responsibility. Yeah. He was still responsible.

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He had people under him on the ship. And you\'re
correct. He love the sailing, he love the going to the

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different foreign ports. He love the
meeting of different peoples and things

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like that. And I think that
was really his, his life.

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Right. And he... Coz I\'ve once her
mother, before she married him.

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And he was regimented on the ship.
Yeah. He couldn\'t quota(ph), he

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couldn\'t amass things and things had
to be done when it were done. You

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are ah, tanker and you had ah, a, leak.
It had to be fixed now, not

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tomorrow, so he was regiment. He
was always collecting things, but

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it got totally out of hand when ah,

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towels(ph) sheets were piling up in
the living room that he either found

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in the street or that we had that broke and
he couldn\'t bare to throw anything out.

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Packratting I guess we grow
up with when we\'re kids.

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Later on, in life ah, after
I left I\'ve saw really

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what he was collecting and took notice
that. Whereas when we were kids or young

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adults, teens, we really didn\'t
care about it. It was, was

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nothing, it didn\'t affect us.

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The local high school was

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throwing out this school desks and he
like brought all of those, catch up and

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carts where he would file them up and brings things home and then
like the shopping carts couldn\'t fit in the house so they were

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chained in the front yard. And that
was pretty crazy. We had like broken

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washers, we have broken toilets in the backyard
at least they weren\'t in the frontward, I guess

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the toilets, but the washers and the,
and the shopping carts and the desks

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were on the front yard. So that was like what
retirement was like for him. I don\'t know

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what he would have done if he didn\'t
packrat. Because I don\'t know

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of any hobbies he had. When he\'s
younger, yeah he went fishing.

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He had a lot of free time on a sense.
You know, he, he... if you don\'t keep

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occupied with hobbies, or ah, activities,

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social groups whatever and it
seem like he tried introverted to

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later. Are you really didn\'t have friends?
He did have one or

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two friends, but like he wouldn\'t see
them for like a long time. He is

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alone, I think. Very alone. Very alone.

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And I think he was really bored
that\'s why he collected stuff.

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I don\'t think he did it for monetary right, coz they,
they was all... it was all garbage. He would never use

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this stuff. I couldn\'t see where he would use
them all garbage for. And he was 60 years old

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whatever you know, retired. Why
he collecting garbages for.

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Oh, he\'s... he collected washers, coz he
needed a part of motor out on one of them?

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I mean, I don\'t know. I don\'t
have advances for that. Coming

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into ah, the area and seeing desks
from my high school packratting

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is one thing. I mean, I think he was an
actual junk collector. The people that I

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grow up with you\'re moving across the street
they clean their house at. I\'m hearing stories

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that he\'s in there ah, pa... he had
a snorkel on digging stuff out and

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dragging it over here. He would lose there
and things that were important like big

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checks or he would hide them, tuck them
away. If you were lucky to finally

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sit in the living room that you\'re pretty
lucky because that was loaded. And in the

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kitchen you had his sit which
was neither big one though.

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Then you had one near the refrigerator.
You\'re even basically just to sit

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slightly on the... around the table and
everything else around it was, was clustered

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in. And you had to move things to
get in to closets. In the living

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room, he had this stereo system
buried under all of his stuff.

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So it always just like from the floor
or the ceiling just piled up everywhere

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even though he knew... he probably knew
that being a packrat a lot of people

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would get a bad re... he would get
a bad wrap from people to found

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out that he was a packrat. So he
kinda kept it quite and kept it

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under the, under the hat. If I remember
right there were newspaper around the

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sink in the kitchen, I\'d say weighs
high 3 foot, 4 foot where she couldn\'t

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get at it could coz sink at all like
a, a wall. Ah, when she did get

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through it, he took the handles off
the ah, faucets, so she couldn\'t

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use it. Now that was a notion to
me that there was something wrong.

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Mostly, he was so supportive of everything
I ever tried to do. But yet, we were also

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secretive about all the stuff in the house, so I
just... I don\'t know how he would have reacted

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to this at all and it worries me of course,
because he can\'t speak for himself.

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My name

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is Jessica Jennings and uhm, I
am the daughter of a packrat.

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I am a packrat, all right.
Ah, the question of

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why I don\'t think I\'m ah, ah, a
really terminal(ph) packrat is that

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I collect stuff actually they could
be used and hopefully, I\'ll use it.

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The biggest problem when you\'re a
real collector, ah, real packrat is

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a, is finding room to work. This building
is ah, a 112feet long and 30 feet

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wide comprising 4800 square
feet of floor space ah,

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the ah, the rocks on the side are each
four feet deep and 8 feet wide, trophy

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high by the way. These are shelves
which recycled from a a home

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products that went out of business. And
these are the shelves has the boxes

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on it. All the boxes are labeled
over stuff in the box is listed

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in a computerized database. Everybody needs
hardware everybody needs not invokes

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and washers and screws and powder pins and

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lynchpins. And so this is some of my hard work.
This is not organized the way it\'s going

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to be organized.

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[music]

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We had a kitchen, you walked in the kitchen

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and then a dining room which was never a dining
room as long as I can remember. And then

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a living room very big living
room and, and den area. And

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the kitchen was a mess. I don\'t know what was in there.
But the, the dining room had his desk in... have a huge

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desk in there. I remember
disposal lighters,

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hundreds of them. And he had them

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stocked like so they were all standing up
right, but with big rubber bands around them.

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I have to say I probably notice that the inside of
their houses looked a little bit different than the

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inside of my house.

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But I don\'t know, I, I actually
always thought we were

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pretty well adjusted. My room, had a
washer and drier in it. A washer and

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drier, then I remember getting delivered
to my grandmother\'s house in 1976,

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I was four years old. I
remember the moving truck.

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I remember them carrying these gold
you know, the gold appliance color

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into the house. So the washer
and drier was in my bedroom.

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The fact... Where should have... have been?
In the basement,

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hooked up and being used. So when I was 15,

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I had like a breakdown. After a second.
So you\'re saying that they were

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in your room that (crosstalk) (inaudible)

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. They were in my bedroom. I\'m usable in
a bedroom. It were in a bedroom on the

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first floor when they should have been.
Nowhere near any plumbing.

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So they were there in my bedroom. And I
had it covered with a... like a Mexican

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blanket that my grandmother had
or something. I tried everything.

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Well, it\'s a kind of a big TV
stand you know. Oh, my god,

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I live with that washer and drier for years
and years and years and years. Although

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I do have some organization here
running from s... ah, screws down that

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end and fourth, quarter 20 hardware
up to bigger stuff up here.

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Eventually, I\'m gonna take there last track
that have put in the bar and we\'ll have large

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pull out ah, sections in it
with shelves on both sides

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and that\'s one... that would be the ultimate
organization for the hardware. Jars of all sizes are

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good for storage, never
there\'s a jar going to trash,

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ever. The people save things coz
they think they\'re gonna use them.

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And ah, and that\'s true. And
so if I ever want a ah, 5\'8 by

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ah, four and a half inch bulk, I\'ve got to
find it by four and a half inch each bulk.

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Some things you know, like old bed

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springs. I don\'t know if I\'ll ever
use old bed springs, but I might.

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So if I can, I\'ll be able to
find them when I need them. He

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packrat knowledge also. He is like... he,

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he knows a little bit about everything.
His, his solid connection

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to other people is by giving information

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and that fits with him being a
teacher and a collector of things,

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but that\'s kind of how he communicate
that\'s the level he shares information.

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Getting to know Jack is sharing
information. It\'s not talking about

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what you like to do in your spare time.

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What do you think you actually use that for? I don\'t
know. I\'m thinking, I\'m thinking maybe I could

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make little boxes or something, I
don\'t know, I have no idea. What

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kind of stuff doesn\'t make sense?
Toothpaste caps.

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I think that\'s pretty bizarre and there\'s about
five of them in the, in the ah, medicine

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cabinet right now. Hoses from hospitals,
I think that\'s pretty weird too. Now

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he\'ll you that so he can use it to drain oil
or something. Barrier strips off the road,

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Caution Do Not Pass. Broken cabinets.
I know

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that I have for instance uhm, what I can

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see you know, uhm, this is plastic
tubing ah, somebody gave to me 20

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years ago. I still haven\'t figure out how I use for it.
But it\'s secretive it comes in to the house. These

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are screens for basement
windows that are in the house.

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Over the years I\'ve gotten patients
who\'ve been ah, evicted from their

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homes for excessive hoarding.
And I\'ve had to

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then deal with where do they go from here.
And I\'ve all cited they\'re all, they\'re

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excessive hoarding in the hospital. Ah,
I\'m in a crisis management business.

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Disposophobia is one of many things that I do.
Uhm, I got to tell you first that I touch

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around as you could see behind me,
ah, I have a touch of disposophobia.

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I\'m not the only guy, because I believe from my
experience of being in this business for a long

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time that ah, about 5% of the population
suffer ah, from disposophobia,

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the fear of getting rid of stuff. Clatter
is a decision not made, you know. And

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I\'m just gonna sit it there and wait \'til later
or procrastination coz I always fits it.

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My plan is to put enough clutter
in the room so that it will

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match the most extreme hoarding we\'ve
seen and take pictures of it at

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that level and at various levels all the way
down to be completely clear. Ah, then what we

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intend to do is to show it to people have hoarding
problems and have them tell us which picture looks

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most like their home. The people
who do this behavior aren\'t that

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much different than the rest of us with respect
to their relationship to possessions. And the

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difference is that, that they apply some of
these reasons to more things. They, they

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think perhaps a bit more about their
possessions in a bit more complicated way

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about their possessions than the rest of us
do. And so all of us have, have some kind of

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ah, empathy or feeling because we ha... we have
a little bit of that and all of us that might.

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Because we... our lives are organized by
things. We\'re reminded of, of special

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times in our life by things. We
sometimes develop the relationship with

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a thing, or a feeling for a thing.
And it\'s the same kind of experience

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accepting just in exaggerated form.

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[sil.]

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It\'s of limited use.

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So if you have a lot of books that you\'re

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never gonna read and they\'re
just filling up space,

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and the space is now
only giving you uhm, six

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inch width pathways to
the lazy boy chair that

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you sleep in and use as a toilet
and you can\'t open your front

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door and you couldn’t put anything
on refrigerator, that\'s a problem.

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So they... they\'re books.
But they\'re, they\'re not

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being used. Well, the only
thing that is, is really

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crucial here is the extent
to which the living area is

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hampered or impaired or cluttered. Acquiring
lots of things or saving lots of thing isn\'t

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a problem, unless it starts to interfere
with man\'s ability to live. So

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once, once there is some impairment there,
once ah, an appliance can\'t be used

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coz it\'s too full or a room can\'t be
used, you can\'t sleep in your bed

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because there\'s too much stuff, then you need to start to think
about, \"What\'s wrong here?\" Some people with this disorder who

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are ah, very uhm, socially depth,
very interesting, very pleasant

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people to be around. There are other people with this problem
who are much, are much more difficult in their personal

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.999
interaction, uhm, more difficult
to talk to, much less

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
uhm, friendly, giving and so forth.
And, and so it sort of runs the gambit

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
with that. But there\'s something that sort of
binds them all together with this that, that I

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
find fascinating. And I don\'t mind interacting with
the people who were difficult to interact with.

00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
I\'ve actually had knocked down, dragged that
arguments and fights with the people, where

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.999
ah, when love, I can\'t do it in a loving
way and help them in a nice way. I take

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
my shoe off like a Russian in a, like the Khrushchev
and I\'m banging on the table and I scream at

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
them. Then I say, \"Okay, listen if you don\'t continue
to do this, I\'m gonna walk out with the government

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
take care of you.\" So if love
doesn\'t work, fear does. And at

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.999
the end of the job, these kinds
of people ah, and I operate under

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.999
this, I don\'t take it personally
that no good dig goes unpunished. So

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
they, they really have to hate... it\'s like
hating a doctor when they\'ve removed their leg

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
with gangrene. You know, and said, \"All right,
cut my leg off.\" Not that... well, they can\'t

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
think about the fact that they\'d
be dead ah, without the gone leg.

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
So that\'s the way that works.
Every workshop I\'ve given, I

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
always start out, I say, \"How many of us in
this room have horror stories of hoarding?\" And

00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
almost everyone raises their hand. And
I say, \"Now, who amongst us feel like

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
they may know someone personally, or might
live with someone who\'s a hoarder?\"

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
And maybe six may raise their hand. And I
say, \"Now, who\'s the very person in this

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
person who fears that they
may have hoarding problem.\"

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
And without doubt, every single time
there\'s at least two or three people

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
carefully raising their hand. And they
really are coming there to kind of

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
diagnose themselves. Ah, that they worry
about it. And those are the folks that would

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
be amenable to treatment if they really indeed did have
a hoarding problem. But by the end of the workshop,

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
they figured out, they really don\'t.
Sure they have cluttering problems, like

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
a lot of us. Uhm, you know,
we have a lot of expandable

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
income and we clutter our lives
up with lots of different things,

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
but that\'s not a hoarding problem.
Disposophobia in my mind

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
is where people just ah, do
not know how to get rid of

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
stuff and they end up just dropping the stuff
wherever they happens to land when they need

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
to go on to another project, or when the phone
rings. Collecting is a different issue. People

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
there are very, very organized collectors that
go out and buy and collect stuff and have

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
immaculate uhm, inventories of stuff that they\'ve
collected and they know precisely where it

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
is so that\'s kept in a highly
organized fashion. Disposophobia, ah,

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
my experience is that disposophobia is
kinda like living in the middle of a junk

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
yard or people live in it and ah, to us

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
to walk in the door and say, \"How did you
do this?\" They know where everything is coz

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
most of them by and large are brilliant, bright
people. I call that man, information junkies

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
most of the time where they
collect stuff because they like

00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
it, they want it or they had
this idea that they\'re going to

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:40.000
neither can use it some day in the future.

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
The one thing I remember
was uhm, I guess shortly

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
before he died, that ah, I

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
had my son helped me take all the

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
stocks and stocks on newspapers
out of my kitchen and sure

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
ripped out. Because I feel
there was a harmful fire

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
hazard not that there was... there were, there
were fire hazards in the house like that.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
But uhm, he got absolutely livid when he

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
came home. It was though
I had thrown away ah,

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
dollars and dollars and dollars. I used to

00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
work in Time Square and we have a subsidized cafeteria
that my father used to come in at lunch with me

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
every week in a subsidized
cafeteria and it was nice. My

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
lunch break was I think one to two.
And when he first

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
started coming to lunch, he would
get there like 1:30 and toward the

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
I... uhm, like I had lunch with him
the day before he died, but after

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
span of time where he would come in at lunch
with me, he would be like two hours late, three

00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
hours late. I\'m having lunch right before I\'m ready to leave
for the day. I mean, that\'s an exaggeration. He was probably

00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
utmost like three hours late, but habitually
like three hours late for lunch and

00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
I used to wait in a lobby at first.
And then I\'m worth something out

00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
with him and the person at the desk so he could call
up when he got there and I would just keep working

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
until he showed. He had throw
all these father\'s old plumbing

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
stuff and things in the backyard.
And some neighbor complained

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
to the environmental agency and
said they had said rats out

00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
in the stock. That was when
he was still alive and, and

00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
ah, and he had to pay a fine but ah,

00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
you know, it, it just... it\'s just any
number of things that happened in the course

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
of the years that I don\'t want necessarily
wanna dig up. But there was a nice

00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
table in that room that was covered with junk. It was
a nice table too and then they covered it with, with

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
junk. As far as I... I think it had
a big influence on her mother.

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
Because Mrs. B(ph) loves life and she loves
people and she never said a word. No.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
I\'m sure, she never said \"Jim get off
your duff and get rid of this stuff.\"

00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.999
She just took it and maybe she should have been more
outspoken. I don\'t know if your mother was outspoken with your

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.999
father then. And she was a... But
again, there was this, this thing

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:29.999
that ah, you know, the, the man they had controlled
everything they, they had the money they would bring it

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
in a money. So that could be said.
So man to man we talked about

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
how that bad things had gotten. And
he didn\'t handle it well. And I

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
didn\'t see any changes coming
with it, until I walked in here

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
uhm, because I wasn\'t prepared to
ah, make it sure back here and

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
maybe some other people weren\'t ready
even... I was ready to move on it, but

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
I don\'t know if there was agreement
as far as with the family. For me

00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
it was a destruction to ah,
family life uhm, as far as ah,

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
the conditions that we\'re here
and for the most part for ah,

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
my mother\'s well being. Uhm, now
it\'s different and I\'m thankful to

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
say that ah, she gets what she
wants if she wants it and

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
we basically his death ah, ah, had us

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
all taken this place and putting
it ah, back on tract so

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
my mom could live in it. The sleds
were buried one time. And we had like

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
this big snow storm when we were kids. And
these sleds were upfront somewhere in here

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
and it were buried under a bunch of
garbage. And we had to move all the garbage

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
to get our sleds and he rarely put
that about that too, because we

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
disorganized you know, we throw in another hip
somewhere else probably on this side just to,

00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
to get our sleds and he made a big thing
about that too. When you have a person

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
that\'s the boss. Now this is what

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
it is and you can\'t tell
him, well, we can\'t get out

00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
into the shed to get into the backyard,
he\'ll say, \"You can move the

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
stuff, but you gotta put it back.\" And
then if it\'s not right, there\'s a

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
conflict coz he\'s gonna say something, \"If you
can\'t put it back right, don\'t move it.\" With

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
packrat you, you have to be diplomatic.
I was like

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
probably about 15 and I had this huge like

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
hefty bag in my room. And I had
all my garbage in there and I was

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
taking it out and my father stopped me and
he went through it. And he started taking

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
stuff out of there, like book
and pencils, various other

00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
broken things, saying, saying that the stuff was
still good and I shouldn\'t be throwing it away.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
And I don\'t know if his motivation was really
that there was book and pencils in there and

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
he had to teach me not to throw away something
that was still good, or I mean, I was

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
you know, smoking pot, and I was smoking
cigarettes. There was probably evidence in

00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
there and maybe that\'s what his
motivation was, but I mean it was like,

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
a really, really horrible feeling.
When you understand

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
or you try to understand why people
do certain things, it might be

00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
part of their character and their
upbringing. So when you understand that,

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
then you learn to deal with it a little better
when you understand things which is getting

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
to a si... to a situation like
that, you might take the

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
point of view cleaned up, get rid of and
then all of a sudden, you have a conflict.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
But here we, we just grow
up well enough alone

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
that way, there was no, no animosity and,

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
and things pretty much resolved.
The whole idea

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
of suggesting to him that

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
he should get help for something he
didn\'t think was wrong, was just

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
outrageous. I love the
man for his interest and

00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
ah, again, his values. I think he just
basically wanted us to do well, to

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
succeed. He basically
pushed into me I think to

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
you know, not to be satisfied you
know, to do things part you know,

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
partly just finish up what you do.
Which I do now which is

00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
a good trade, I think. You know, I don\'t
believe anything you know, one time

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
I\'ll try not to, not to finish
open projects whatever I do.

00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
He want us to be very honest too.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
Dishonesty was a big thing. He showed
us that you know, to be honest

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
and I think that\'s why we
haven\'t been in jail you know.

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
You know, he basically wanted us to
be real honest than he was. He was,

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
I remember when we were kids
ah, someone dropped a $20 bill

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
in a cleaners one time and I want to pick
it up. And I didn\'t even say anything,

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
but he stepped on my hand thinking
I was gonna pocket it. And I was

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
like, \"I didn\'t even get poor(ph) at that and I was getting whacked in the
back of the head like you, you\'re gonna steal it. You\'re gonna get it back to

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
him. I mean, I give it back to the guy, coz
he maybe look like a fool, but I mean,

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:35.000
it was like, I think he really
want us to be like super honest.

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
[sil.]

00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
When you\'re got hormones going on and you
know, you really wanna bring your boyfriend

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
to met your parents, but you know, you\'re mode
defied because ah, you know, you look like

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
Fred Sanford’s daughter when you phoned at driveway
and you got like three broke down cars. And,

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
and the only difference between us and like Hillbilly
is where our stuff wasn\'t on blocks coz we like

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
we\'re using the cinder blocks for something else
like to build a house to store more stuff. So

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
we didn\'t wanna waste their cinder blocks by putting them
underneath the car which is that the car like sink into the dirt.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
So I mean, it\'s... you have to just

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
be responsible for yourself.
Getting rid of the alchemy now was

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
a very traumatic part of life. It
was trauma. It took about seven

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
months because it... Jack had lost the registration
we have to go through motor vehicle to get a new

00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
registration. And I think it took him
that long to finally agree that the the

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
truck was better off being used by someone who
was a collector and was gonna redo it of course

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
he took the engine out of it first because we have
to keep that you never know when you might need an

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
engine. But that we\'re left
now with a broken down old

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
station wagon gray and ah, uhm,

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
an MJ under a blue tarp. On the

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
property, we also have of
the only airline baggage

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
carts in town since we\'re
not near an airport. But

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
that holds an old oil tank because you never know when
you might need an old oil tank. You know, it could

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
come in handy. You have to... I always hear...
We live on a farm. So that, that\'s cover the

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
multitude at sense. If you live in a farm, you\'re
allowed to do all these things. So but it is

00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
getting better. It really is. We have far
list blue tarps covering things and we

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
did 18 years ago. I did move out
of the house because of it.

00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
Uhm, coz there was nowhere, you know, I had a little
room and that room kinda became my sanctuary, so I

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
put like, I put a carpet in there. I
bought nice bedspreads. I... so the room

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
might have looked like you know, bomb shelter until you open
the door to my bedroom and then, you\'ll see this little

00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
of order and... We also have

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
one, two, three maybe five tractors.
And I\'m sure some

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
work. They might work.
We want that works. We

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
have a backhoe, that used to work.
But that has a hydraulic

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
problem and that\'s in a cart
port where most backhoes are.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
And what else do we have out there?
Not much. It\'s

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
really, really a whole lot less than normal. But you
can understand why we wouldn\'t do well living in a

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
development. I just went and I grabs a
milk jag off the top of the fridge.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
Well, that was a milk jag that had
a predestined purpose which was

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
for ice tea. So here, I\'m gonna like pouring the
oil into the, you know, into this milk jag and he

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
comes around with an old beat up greasy milk
jag and he\'s like, \"What are doing, you know,

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
I was going to use that for dah, dah, dah,
dah.\" And there\'s 42 milk jags on top of the

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
fridge. You know, and \"It\'s a
freakin\' ten cent piece of

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
plastic, but you\'re screaming at me. Why you\'re screaming? I thought
you love me. Why are you screaming at me, you know?\" He\'s like,

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
\"Ah, you don\'t live here anymore and nobody drinks
milk except you and you know, I\'ve got to sit\" and I\'m

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
taken, \"This is freakin\' ridiculous.\"
And I just... I think I threw something

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
at him. I think I like had a, you know, one of the other
milk jag. I think I might even thrown it at him is,

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
you know. It... and that really, \"God\" I mean,
I was like you know. And then afterwards

00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
you know, we both went our in the separate corners, and
he\'s, \"Yeah, you know, look I\'m really sorry.\" But I did

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
at least get a chance to verbalize you know, and, and
hold the thing up in the air and say, \"This is a

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
freakin ten cent piece of plastic and you\'re screaming at me for
this. \" And you know, like, \" Can\'t get your attention for five

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
minutes and you surround yourself with this shit
and blah, blah, blah, blah.\" So at least I got a

00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
chance to get some of them off my chest. The
worst story that I think Jennifer doesn\'t even

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
wanna remember is with this church
pew that was in the basement of my...

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
Of the house, that\'s in the woods. The
plumbing was always going, whatever.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
But he never know until something was
ruined, coz he couldn\'t get to it.

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
I said, \"Dad, there\'s a leak in the basement.
It\'s getting all the stuff wet.\" My

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.999
dad, he\'s like probably hasn\'t slept
in days, coz he used to (inaudible)

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.000
for work.

00:34:15.001 --> 00:34:19.999
Runs downstairs and he\'s
like, \"Your mother\'s church

00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
pew.\" And he starts freaking out.
And they get the church pew,

00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
they\'ve take it after the bucket, right? But they had to
clear the path and of course that upsets my father. So

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
he has to move the stuff and he
gets more upset. She\'s four to 15,

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
not very athletic, he\'s not very strong,
whatever. It\'s a heavy church pew.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
He like, I don\'t know what happened, he
flipped out on the stairs. My sister

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
goes down and sprains her ankle
or something. He screams in

00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
horrors and she actually gets up and tries to help him
bring this church pew and I\'m screaming at him, \"I\'m

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
tiny.\" And I\'m screaming at him, to like, \"leave
my sister alone,\" kinda thing because he\'s just

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
totally beating her up somehow
like he\'s just stressed and he\'s

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
having this anxiety attack about this stupid
pew that\'s green now because of the water.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
And they\'re bringing it through the blizzard
to one of the empty... one of the buildings,

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
to the barn or to the shell. And
he\'s dragging my sister along

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
pretty much, essentially. Huffing and
puffing with regard for anything, but

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
his own stress. And I was
like crying my eyes out.

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
I was probably nine or ten.
And I\'m crying my eyes out.

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
I have no idea what happened
to the church pew. That

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
is the story I didn\'t even wanna remember.
My father was a very dynamic

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
interesting man. He may not like... he looks just
like a regular old farmer guy, but he\'s done

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
a lot of stuff. And some of the stuff that
we packed up when they built a new house,

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
he\'s got stuff from when he worked at Amman(ph)
Scientific Company and he designed their late

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
show. And you know, he worked on like the
first colored television project or you know,

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
early, early computers and all kinds
of stuff like that. So it\'s I,

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
I really kinda have to look at it in
a positive perspective, you know.

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
It\'s better than lemonade you know, it\'s,
it\'s like lamish(ph) your pan pie, I kinda

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:25.000
look at it. So, so I think I find a great
life. I think I got great parents.

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
What we have

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
found is that there\'s a tendency for people
who have this problem to have uhm, a

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
larger percentage of first degree relatives who also
have a problem. Very often, when I\'m working with

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
ah, older personnel find out that
their sibling or their daughter

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
has a hoarding problem. My room was like how
they describe people\'s rooms or way off

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
after they\'ve been with hoarding like the
floor you couldn\'t see it. There was food

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
in amongst the stuff. I mean, it
was like really, really bad that

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
way. And it\'s like one day, I just snapped
out of it, I guess and I was like,

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
uhm, wow, there was like

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
you know, like a chicken leg there that\'s
been there for months, you know. You

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
really like, you really need to get a grip.
Grandpa was probably a packrat,

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
I don\'t know. But he, he had
a collected stuff anyway.

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
I mean, he did collect it because it was
in his basement. But I don\'t remember them

00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
collecting garbage. You know, like carriages and
stuff like that is, I think that pertain more

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
to his business. As of yet,
there are no published data on

00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
the genetic connection here although there
is a group of researchers down in Rhode

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
Island who have been collecting some genetic
data, and I haven\'t seen the results,

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
but for... I understand from what they\'re doing
that there ma... maybe in facts found some

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
ah, evidence about heritability
factor for hoarding. Yeah, I\'m very

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
concerned that I\'m gonna
be some old bug lady

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
somehow. And that concerns
me a lot, the idea

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
that I would alienate everybody in my life
concerns me a lot. The idea that I would do that

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
and not even care about it, concerns me.
The idea of living in

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
isolation with a bunch of dusty crap,

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
yeah, I have a lot of
concerns for myself about it,

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
coz I\'m afraid that I\'m leaning
in that direction. I also

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
have fears of becoming a packrat myself.
So there\'s... I\'m projecting

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
a little. Frankly, I didn\'t notice I don\'t
really have a problem getting rid of

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
it. But when I went to put it in a
recycling den which is right here, I...

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
Some stuff feel out of it that I guess were scraps
of paper that I put in there. I don\'t know what

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
they are but I\'m gonna look at it now and I\'m, and I\'m
actually just checking to make sure there aren\'t more. I wanna

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
allow myself to grow and change and
holding on to these uhm, these

00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
symbolic items is really, slowing me down.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.999
I have a big thing that I\'m
bringing to good will and I put

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.999
down a stock of 10 books and then I decided
that I have to have nine of them and I

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
give one away. So maybe in like a hundred
years, I\'ll get rid of all these

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.000
books.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
What you\'ve seen and what you\'ve done is you...
Becomes you even if it\'s a long time ago. So I have

00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
this folder and I learn this from
father because he saved every program

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
from every musical event he went to,
and you know, he had saves a subs...

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.999
You know, a season subscriber to a lot
of different uhm, ah, chamber music

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
and ah, symphony orchestra ah,
groups and whatever. So I learn this

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
trait from him. I don\'t even see this as
a part of his hoard. I see this as like,

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
this is a, this is a bunch of
objects that are, are him to me.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
This is like, I have him here

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
on my shelve.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
I don\'t wanna be defined by what I have.
And I think I\'ve been trying to do that

00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
to avoid ah, I don\'t know why. I, I mean, I

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
didn\'t

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
making art, will make me an artist,

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
not hoarding books about art. Normally,

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
when I wanna get rid of stuff, I think about
people who might be able to use it and I\'ve

00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
recently come to the conclusion
that uhm, I mean, you know, this

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
might be an idea my husband fed me to.
I don\'t know where I got it from, but

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
suddenly, I realized that
giving something to someone who

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
you think might like it, you really
just bargaining them with stuff that

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
maybe they don\'t want. This was grandmother\'s
jacket. And my grandmother was

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
like, a grandmother you know,
she had grandmotherly fur.

00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
The fine fur. It was fun.
You know, when I was in

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.999
high school and one of this was warm.
It\'s not the way you know,

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
ah, a warm coat, but I haven\'t
worn it in five years. So this

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
again, and I thought I might wear this for work,
but I guess it\'s totally inappropriate. It\'s

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
too long, it\'s we\'ve getting away. So

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
very,

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
very hard to get rid of this. I mean, yeah there\'s a
lot of stuff in here that people could probably use

00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
and people might want it who I know. And I don\'t
know if they\'ve been mad at me for just checking out

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
without asking them, but there really is
like if you wait on... also if you wait

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
on other people to come and
get things, you\'ll never get

00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
the stuff out, I think. So I\'m
just take it upon and I\'m sorry

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
to anybody who might have been
will be use these things. I\'m not

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.999
gonna be an expert in ah, you know
philosophy and existentialism

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
and this is a good one though and
you can have it Kris. No kidding.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
It\'s not at all these be a toy that I have out
there which probably is completely unusable

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
you know, I would need ah, an electrician
as well as an antique television

00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
in order to use it. Can\'t part with it.
No way. It actually was my char...

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
My, my toy from when I was a kid. And uhm,

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
I think about it as something that brought my
family together you know, my mother used to play w

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
me. And she was never really
like a big uhm, she...

00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
We didn\'t have a lot of the same interest
because she really is like, she\'s

00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
not even a baby glamor, she\'s older. You know
there wasn\'t a lot of activities that we,

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
that we would necessary... you know, we didn\'t go
shopping together or you know, or anything like that coz

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
that wasn\'t in part of our own MO
as a family. But uhm, so yeah,

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
we played a toy though and I thought my mother
was so cool for that. And I... you know, that\'s

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
something that\'s emblematic you know, the game,
the object is emblematic with that for me and

00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
that\'s why I can\'t let go of it, I think. And
also coz everybody who comes in here, goes

00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
\"Wow, that\'s really cool.\" You know, and
I get totally enable from that too.

00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
But this thing is going. I,

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
I imagine not having it.
And that\'s what has

00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
prepared me to get rid of it. I imagine not having it. Do I
really need it? Do I really need it? Am I gonna wear it?

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
And I imagine getting rid of it and
I really liked the way that felt.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
So the visualization that was, I
was talking about I totally tried

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
and it works. All right, we\'re gonna start right now
fellows. It\'s a lot of stuff, it\'s a pink. (inaudible)

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:20.000
It has to be done.

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
If you don\'t have any society pushing on you to
change anything, ah, things get pretty normal inside

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
your house no matter how nuts it is,
really. Later on, I mean, he wound up

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
ah, dating his present
wife and I think he got a

00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
little inspired to you know, have over her
for dinner, and clean up, throw some stuff

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
out you know, stuff that I mean, it\'s bringing
another person into the mix definitely

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
rearranges your sense of reality. I don\'t think it can
go up to a packrat and just say, you have to throw it,

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
everything you own, because they\'re not gonna
do that and that\'s, that\'s too much of

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
a sacrifice to us. And I don\'t think you know, a
packrat can go up to somebody and say, \"You\'re

00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
gonna have to live like I do and be happy
with it,\" because that again is too

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
much of a compromise. If you\'re, if
you\'re living with somebody like that,

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
you can learn to accept it. And you can ah,

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
even try to understand it, but that
does not mean that you condone

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:29.999
it or like it. I mean, you don\'t
have to like it, you could try to be

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.999
understanding, but it\'s does... it just
goes beyond that after a while. At any

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.999
age, if it\'s sort of identified,
uhm, or a proclivity is

00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
identified, ah, identify
it and then work to change

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
it while you can before you can\'t.
I don\'t decide how to organize it.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
I wouldn\'t even presume to
know really what\'s in it.

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
And I hope I never have to know.

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
So I wouldn\'t wanna be the one to empty it.
What you can do

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
is suggest to them that they call. If they
call me we have a real good chance of fixing

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
them or helping them out of the situation.
\'Til I reach for help

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
or until some event occurs that\'s more traumatic
than they\'re sub... that they\'re in now that

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
pushes them in my direction. There\'s not a
whole lot I can do. If they can keep a space

00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
clear, it\'s a success, all right. Sometimes,
it\'s very difficult for people to, to

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
take a space so like, like the space here and, and
sometimes we ask them just to take the space,

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
clear all the stuff out of the space
and keep it off for a week and that\'s

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
very difficult sometimes. So if, if they can
do it, then they\'re in the process of, of

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
working on the problem and, and I guess, I would say at
that point they\'re in, in the process of recovery. Be

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
sure you\'re willing to put
up with this stuff. And

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
pick what\'s important. He can\'t
worry with that stuff in a

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
barn if it\'s out of your sight.
If the rest of the life

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
together is important, you just look the other way
and say, \"Okay, you wanna keep stuff, keep stuff.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
Just keep it out of my life.\"
That\'s the best advise I

00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
have. This one was so happy.
They\'re like, I could see here

00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
from one end and scared and all of that.
All of a sudden, ah, she just made one

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
decision. She says, the
decision is, yeah. You know,

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
\"Here\'s the keys. I\'ll see you in the
morning you know, before I leave for work

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
and then ah, you walk up at
night.\" That\'d be three days

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
straight to place it out. But because she was
so good stuff, I did a little extra. I went

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
open up all the boxes, I took all the stuff out
of the moving thing. I put everything away.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
That place was done, you wouldn\'t believe
it. It look like a model apartment.

00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
I invited her to think about having a
nice party at the end of the deal in her

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
house. You know, or just social gathering.
Uhm, ah, she

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
could have a friends over and she has somebody like
a room mate come in and even share the expenses

00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
because she live in one of most expensive
neighborhoods in, in, in Manhattan. And

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
ah, that was like about three years ago.
And guess what, today,

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
she\'s right on top of everything. Her place
is nice. I can\'t tell you how many times

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
you, you have someone seen by a
psychiatrist or a family physician

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
and all of that. And hoarding
is never discussed, ever,

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
not asked. And this person
maybe on the verge of

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
eviction. And uhm, I\'ll say get them to
see the doctor and all that and then

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
they go see the doctor and nothing happens
while hoarding never came up. So identify

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
hoarding and to educate uhm, the
medical and the psychiatric community

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
that\'s imperative. When I started this you know, that I
felt really sympathetic about it. But I realized that

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
I feel like incredibly mixed feelings and I feel like
a tremendous amount of anger about it. And I also

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
feel uhm, I also feel sympathy.
Yes, people can change,

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
not all of them. The ones who really
want to, gotta work at it. And

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
sometimes, I think you have to be strong enough.
But changing this, this ah, syndrome of

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
saving things I don\'t know if
you can look at it entirely.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
But even if they got rid
of 75% that\'s a gain.

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:38.000
[music]