00:00:07.215 --> 00:00:10.343
- Most of the time when
I tell people this story

00:00:10.343 --> 00:00:12.220
they tell me that they don't believe me

00:00:12.220 --> 00:00:15.682
and that I am making it
up or that it's not true.

00:00:15.682 --> 00:00:18.226
(somber music)

00:00:20.395 --> 00:00:24.232
When I was younger, he was amazing.

00:00:25.358 --> 00:00:27.402
He was just always there for me

00:00:27.402 --> 00:00:28.528
when I needed someone.

00:00:29.654 --> 00:00:31.823
(somber music)

00:00:31.823 --> 00:00:35.076
You always hear about mass murderers

00:00:35.076 --> 00:00:37.537
and how terrifying they are.

00:00:40.123 --> 00:00:45.045
But you can never really
imagine that hurtful

00:00:45.045 --> 00:00:49.257
and harmful person to be
in the same house as you.

00:00:49.257 --> 00:00:51.843
(somber music)

00:01:08.193 --> 00:01:10.945
(birds chirping)

00:01:16.326 --> 00:01:18.328
- I like American country music.

00:01:21.956 --> 00:01:25.126
I mean, just the quietness
and the soothing.

00:01:25.126 --> 00:01:27.212
I mean, I don't know
how many kind they are.

00:01:27.212 --> 00:01:28.546
There is just one that I listen to.

00:01:28.546 --> 00:01:30.507
It's just a background country music.

00:01:30.507 --> 00:01:31.674
I listen to that.

00:01:31.674 --> 00:01:32.842
It kind of relaxes me.

00:01:36.137 --> 00:01:37.097
- The country music,

00:01:37.097 --> 00:01:40.183
it seems to me it's coming from the heart,

00:01:40.183 --> 00:01:41.851
how you feel about the society

00:01:41.851 --> 00:01:43.895
or the community wherever you live.

00:01:43.895 --> 00:01:46.106
And to express those feelings

00:01:47.524 --> 00:01:50.860
in a very simple and straightforward way.

00:01:51.861 --> 00:01:54.864
- I felt I became American,

00:01:54.864 --> 00:01:59.869
I think after maybe five years

00:02:01.037 --> 00:02:04.457
after I learned that
language, I was in school.

00:02:04.457 --> 00:02:06.793
I had the second child born.

00:02:06.793 --> 00:02:10.755
I became very comfortable with my life.

00:02:10.755 --> 00:02:15.760
- I felt as a American, probably early on

00:02:16.177 --> 00:02:20.056
and the community also embraced
me without any hesitation.

00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:25.353
(firearms firing)

00:02:25.353 --> 00:02:29.607
- I came to Muncie in 1986 as a refugee.

00:02:30.692 --> 00:02:34.112
I was living in the
refugee camp in Pakistan

00:02:34.112 --> 00:02:37.615
due to Soviet invasion in Afghanistan.

00:02:37.615 --> 00:02:38.950
Lived there for six years,

00:02:39.951 --> 00:02:42.453
then I got engaged with my husband there.

00:02:42.453 --> 00:02:44.956
And then he brought me five years later

00:02:44.956 --> 00:02:48.877
to the United States and
we got married in '86.

00:02:48.877 --> 00:02:51.713
- I am a family physician
here in Muncie, Indiana.

00:02:52.714 --> 00:02:56.467
The pictures of my children are in each room.

00:02:56.467 --> 00:02:58.845
I treat my patient as my family.

00:02:58.845 --> 00:03:02.098
So I tell my patient that I came by choice

00:03:02.098 --> 00:03:06.644
and I appreciate the refugee status

00:03:06.644 --> 00:03:08.521
that I came as a refugee.

00:03:08.521 --> 00:03:11.691
And then I tell them they are my family

00:03:11.691 --> 00:03:15.028
because if something happening
to me, my family is far away.

00:03:15.028 --> 00:03:17.322
They will be coming to my rescue.

00:03:22.577 --> 00:03:25.163
- How would people describe me?

00:03:25.163 --> 00:03:26.581
I would probably say

00:03:26.581 --> 00:03:30.001
that they would describe
me as strong and stubborn.

00:03:33.254 --> 00:03:37.050
They would describe me as a mom

00:03:37.050 --> 00:03:41.221
because my main goal is
to raise my daughter to

00:03:41.221 --> 00:03:43.890
be a strong young woman.

00:03:45.475 --> 00:03:47.101
When I first met Mac,

00:03:47.101 --> 00:03:51.022
there was no doubt that he was a jarhead.

00:03:51.022 --> 00:03:55.193
One of the things I loved
about him was his commitment

00:03:55.193 --> 00:03:59.030
to, ironically enough, to his country.

00:04:00.031 --> 00:04:02.492
Mac and I had a long distance relationship

00:04:02.492 --> 00:04:04.702
for just over a year.

00:04:05.828 --> 00:04:08.373
I decided to introduce him to Emily.

00:04:08.373 --> 00:04:11.668
I said, this is gonna
be the deciding factor

00:04:11.668 --> 00:04:15.630
because if she's not good, mom's not good.

00:04:15.630 --> 00:04:16.589
- She wanted to make sure

00:04:16.589 --> 00:04:19.217
that I was gonna have a good father figure

00:04:19.217 --> 00:04:21.678
in my life for later on.

00:04:21.678 --> 00:04:26.266
And so we moved to Muncie
all together when I was five.

00:04:26.266 --> 00:04:29.852
And he just was my dad from there on.

00:04:29.852 --> 00:04:32.772
- Their relationship was very close.

00:04:32.772 --> 00:04:34.315
They liked to go a lot

00:04:34.315 --> 00:04:37.402
of different places together, go fishing.

00:04:37.402 --> 00:04:39.529
He let her drive his car.

00:04:40.697 --> 00:04:42.949
- We both called each other, our road dogs

00:04:42.949 --> 00:04:44.909
cuz we would just go everywhere together

00:04:44.909 --> 00:04:46.327
and just hang out all the time

00:04:46.327 --> 00:04:49.580
when I was really young, he was amazing.

00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:00.466
- [Interviewer] How did
killing people change you?

00:05:05.221 --> 00:05:06.556
- Never really told the

00:05:11.144 --> 00:05:12.270
Hold on a second, man.

00:05:27.452 --> 00:05:29.078
I was fairly a happy kid.

00:05:29.078 --> 00:05:30.163
I had friends.

00:05:30.163 --> 00:05:32.415
I liked to run the streets.

00:05:33.708 --> 00:05:37.337
In high school, I'd gotten
in a lot of trouble.

00:05:37.337 --> 00:05:39.714
My biggest downfall is
I was involved in drugs

00:05:39.714 --> 00:05:42.800
both using and selling.

00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.512
It made life harder on
me, made school almost,

00:05:46.512 --> 00:05:48.306
well, it did make school impossible.

00:05:49.766 --> 00:05:51.225
I joined the Marines at 18.

00:05:52.769 --> 00:05:55.063
I saw it as a respect thing.

00:05:56.898 --> 00:06:01.361
My dad came from nothing. Big family, poor.

00:06:03.905 --> 00:06:07.617
He had quit school, joined the military

00:06:07.617 --> 00:06:10.244
and he did four years in the Marine Corps.

00:06:11.954 --> 00:06:14.248
By me joining the military,
not only the military

00:06:14.248 --> 00:06:16.209
but the Marine Corps and going

00:06:16.209 --> 00:06:18.544
through some of the same
stuff he went through,

00:06:18.544 --> 00:06:20.713
I figured I'd get his respect.

00:06:20.713 --> 00:06:21.547
I didn't have it.

00:06:22.715 --> 00:06:25.551
But I knew it would to get me
away from what I was doing.

00:06:29.931 --> 00:06:33.518
I was in the military for a
long time, around 25 years.

00:06:34.644 --> 00:06:37.730
Towards the end of my military career,

00:06:37.730 --> 00:06:39.399
I was a totally different person.

00:06:40.691 --> 00:06:43.027
The fact of being involved

00:06:43.027 --> 00:06:48.032
in so many deaths over years,
it was a crazy time, man.

00:06:48.908 --> 00:06:50.201
I don't even know.

00:06:52.954 --> 00:06:54.622
I probably would've been committed

00:06:55.665 --> 00:06:59.168
if they would've actually
known the way I was acting.

00:07:01.838 --> 00:07:03.923
One time, I had a discussion,

00:07:03.923 --> 00:07:07.635
with a higher ranking
person, about coping.

00:07:07.635 --> 00:07:09.178
He looked me straight in the eye.

00:07:09.178 --> 00:07:10.638
He says Mac you're on the range.

00:07:10.638 --> 00:07:12.306
You're shooting at a paper target.

00:07:13.766 --> 00:07:15.226
As long as you can look

00:07:15.226 --> 00:07:19.814
at them as anything but human,
you won't have any problems.

00:07:19.814 --> 00:07:20.773
I said, oh, okay.

00:07:20.773 --> 00:07:21.899
That makes sense, yeah.

00:07:22.859 --> 00:07:23.943
And that's what I did.

00:07:26.612 --> 00:07:30.867
- [Muslim] Allahu Akbar.

00:07:30.867 --> 00:07:32.827
(water pouring)

00:07:34.537 --> 00:07:36.664
I'm a very family orientated person.

00:07:36.664 --> 00:07:38.416
I love family.

00:07:38.416 --> 00:07:42.962
I'm a Williams, so the Williams family
go way back here in Muncie.

00:07:44.630 --> 00:07:49.177
My great-great-grandfather was lynched
and was castrated.

00:07:49.719 --> 00:07:52.013
So I grew a dislike towards white people.

00:07:52.013 --> 00:07:54.307
It was so bad.

00:07:54.724 --> 00:07:57.685
I was 21 years young,

00:07:59.103 --> 00:08:00.271
long time ago,

00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.567
when I first came into the religion,

00:08:04.567 --> 00:08:06.903
the community is beautiful.

00:08:06.903 --> 00:08:09.739
I never experienced anything like that.

00:08:09.739 --> 00:08:11.824
You know, the closeness of anything

00:08:11.824 --> 00:08:13.576
until I came to this community.

00:08:15.161 --> 00:08:15.995
- The story I was told

00:08:15.995 --> 00:08:18.748
for starting the Islamic
Center was that it was my dad

00:08:18.748 --> 00:08:21.709
and two other Muslim brothers
that were kind of the

00:08:22.585 --> 00:08:24.253
kick starters of the mosque.

00:08:24.253 --> 00:08:28.299
And so an Afghan, a Syrian
and a Bangladeshi brother,

00:08:28.299 --> 00:08:29.592
you know, that like that kind

00:08:29.592 --> 00:08:32.512
of unity to start a
mosque through, you know

00:08:32.512 --> 00:08:34.931
from these different walks
of life, different countries

00:08:34.931 --> 00:08:36.140
different refugee stories

00:08:36.140 --> 00:08:37.558
and to come together and create a mosque.

00:08:37.558 --> 00:08:39.185
So that's a beautiful thing.

00:08:39.185 --> 00:08:42.730
My parents are mountain movers,

00:08:42.730 --> 00:08:44.565
I would describe them as.

00:08:44.565 --> 00:08:47.902
Both come from very humble
beginnings in Afghanistan.

00:08:49.111 --> 00:08:52.323
It was really always an
open door at our house.

00:08:52.323 --> 00:08:54.951
- Just anyone who needed a place to stay,

00:08:54.951 --> 00:08:59.872
I would welcome them to stay
with me from all walks of life.

00:08:59.872 --> 00:09:01.082
They would come to our house.

00:09:01.082 --> 00:09:02.250
I will wash their clothes

00:09:02.250 --> 00:09:05.169
and clean their clothes and cook for them.

00:09:05.169 --> 00:09:07.630
- My dad calls my mom, the Mother Teresa

00:09:07.630 --> 00:09:09.298
of the Muslim community.

00:09:09.298 --> 00:09:10.967
And it's definitely true.

00:09:10.967 --> 00:09:11.842
She really,

00:09:11.842 --> 00:09:14.971
it's in her DNA to just
be that self sacrificer

00:09:14.971 --> 00:09:16.514
to really put her like everything

00:09:16.514 --> 00:09:19.559
on the line to make even
one person's life better.

00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.144
(somber music)

00:09:26.274 --> 00:09:27.275
- Oh my God.

00:09:28.276 --> 00:09:31.112
- I think 911 changed me

00:09:31.112 --> 00:09:34.824
and a lot of community
members in a big way.

00:09:34.824 --> 00:09:36.492
- It was shocking.

00:09:36.492 --> 00:09:38.035
I couldn't believe it.

00:09:38.035 --> 00:09:41.664
We were just as devastated as anybody else,

00:09:41.664 --> 00:09:42.999
as any other American.

00:09:44.709 --> 00:09:47.378
- For me personally, it
was very difficult to see

00:09:47.378 --> 00:09:50.464
that in the United
States, as I say, you know

00:09:50.464 --> 00:09:53.593
we have come from those country
where there was killing,

00:09:53.593 --> 00:09:55.177
there were bombing,

00:09:55.177 --> 00:09:59.265
and just like you come
here as you live in peace,

00:09:59.265 --> 00:10:02.101
seeing that was very
difficult for me personally.

00:10:02.101 --> 00:10:04.103
- I had some discrimination.

00:10:04.103 --> 00:10:06.230
You can tell when we went out

00:10:06.230 --> 00:10:07.898
people looked at us a
little bit differently.

00:10:07.898 --> 00:10:09.859
People saw us a little bit differently.

00:10:10.901 --> 00:10:15.656
- Go back to your country that
you have towel on your head.

00:10:15.656 --> 00:10:20.661
Just making these remarks,
it really hurts you.

00:10:25.124 --> 00:10:26.876
- When I moved to Muncie,

00:10:26.876 --> 00:10:28.753
I started to notice some things

00:10:28.753 --> 00:10:32.298
with his behavior that I hadn't earlier.

00:10:33.758 --> 00:10:36.886
Usually when he would talk
about the things that happened

00:10:36.886 --> 00:10:41.432
it was when he would drink
or he would be really sad.

00:10:41.432 --> 00:10:45.019
- Military career ended
with me getting injured

00:10:46.228 --> 00:10:48.564
and it started a cycle of events.

00:10:50.524 --> 00:10:51.901
Living in Muncie.

00:10:51.901 --> 00:10:55.738
Now I was being forced
to see people that I

00:10:55.738 --> 00:10:56.989
considered an enemy.

00:10:58.157 --> 00:10:59.867
Every time I went out the door.

00:11:01.702 --> 00:11:04.246
- We would, you know, go
to Walmart and you walk

00:11:04.246 --> 00:11:06.332
down the aisle and start
to go down an aisle

00:11:06.332 --> 00:11:07.166
and I would see a woman

00:11:07.166 --> 00:11:11.337
in hijab and would
intentionally divert our path.

00:11:12.463 --> 00:11:15.174
- This is my store, this is my country,

00:11:15.174 --> 00:11:16.509
my city.

00:11:16.509 --> 00:11:17.343
Got to the point

00:11:17.343 --> 00:11:19.970
to where I just wanted to do harm to them.

00:11:20.846 --> 00:11:22.598
- I guess I just held onto the hope

00:11:22.598 --> 00:11:24.475
you know, that being in a

00:11:24.475 --> 00:11:27.895
loving relationship
would help him move away

00:11:27.895 --> 00:11:31.065
from the anger and the hatred that he had.

00:11:31.065 --> 00:11:33.192
I never thought in a million years

00:11:33.192 --> 00:11:37.571
that he would consider
doing anything to anyone.

00:11:43.285 --> 00:11:44.328
- I started thinking.

00:11:46.288 --> 00:11:48.999
Between being drunk and sober

00:11:49.875 --> 00:11:54.880
I was brainstorming, how
can I make this right?

00:11:56.757 --> 00:11:59.385
My country's done with me,
but I'm not done with it.

00:12:00.886 --> 00:12:05.599
I would die for that cloth, gladly.

00:12:06.809 --> 00:12:08.060
So I came up with a plan.

00:12:10.688 --> 00:12:15.693
I said, okay, not an
explosive expert by no means

00:12:16.235 --> 00:12:17.903
but I knew enough to make a bomb.

00:12:20.156 --> 00:12:22.199
Let me find a good place
where I think I can get

00:12:22.199 --> 00:12:24.535
the most bang for my buck.

00:12:26.036 --> 00:12:31.041
My plan was to detonate an IED

00:12:34.253 --> 00:12:36.213
right outside the Muncie Islamic center

00:12:37.423 --> 00:12:40.593
on a Friday afternoon when
they were all gathered.

00:12:41.719 --> 00:12:44.764
And I was hoping for at least 200 or more.

00:12:44.764 --> 00:12:49.769
Dead, injured, at least

00:12:50.144 --> 00:12:52.021
that was my goal, 200 or more.

00:12:53.481 --> 00:12:55.024
I knew I'd get caught.

00:12:55.024 --> 00:12:57.109
My DNA's on a national data bank.

00:12:57.109 --> 00:12:58.152
I was good with that.

00:12:58.152 --> 00:12:59.820
I wanted to be in court.

00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:01.363
I wanted to make my statements.

00:13:01.363 --> 00:13:04.408
I wanted to tell people, yes, I did this.

00:13:08.579 --> 00:13:10.664
- There was this boy at my school

00:13:10.664 --> 00:13:13.709
and his mom came to pick him up.

00:13:13.709 --> 00:13:18.380
And she was in this long
dress with long sleeves

00:13:18.380 --> 00:13:22.176
and a full head covering
that only showed her eyes.

00:13:22.176 --> 00:13:25.387
And I was really confused by
that, cuz I had never seen

00:13:25.387 --> 00:13:26.222
that before.

00:13:26.222 --> 00:13:30.476
And I was wondering why I
couldn't see anything of her.

00:13:30.476 --> 00:13:34.980
And I went home that day
and told my dad about it.

00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:37.775
And he flipped out.

00:13:37.775 --> 00:13:39.318
- This little Muslim kid,

00:13:40.945 --> 00:13:44.949
future terrorist sat
across from my daughter.

00:13:49.078 --> 00:13:50.746
I blew up.

00:13:50.746 --> 00:13:53.833
At the end, I actually went into my room

00:13:53.833 --> 00:13:56.335
and just broke down and cried.

00:13:58.838 --> 00:14:01.257
I let these people get close to my family.

00:14:02.132 --> 00:14:06.554
- I was just very confused
and probably scared

00:14:06.554 --> 00:14:08.597
of why he was just freaking out

00:14:08.597 --> 00:14:11.016
over what this woman was wearing.

00:14:11.016 --> 00:14:14.937
And it just seemed so
weird to me and strange.

00:14:14.937 --> 00:14:19.692
And I looked at him like,
what are you going on about

00:14:19.692 --> 00:14:21.443
you crazy, crazy, man?

00:14:21.443 --> 00:14:24.613
- When I have a little girl
sitting in front of me,

00:14:24.613 --> 00:14:26.907
looking at me like I'm crazy,

00:14:26.907 --> 00:14:28.284
questioning,

00:14:28.284 --> 00:14:30.953
man, do I really love this guy or not?

00:14:31.871 --> 00:14:33.539
This little girl's my world, man.

00:14:35.749 --> 00:14:37.835
And I can't have that happen.

00:14:40.337 --> 00:14:41.422
I need her love.

00:14:44.466 --> 00:14:47.928
So I said, okay, I know I'm right.

00:14:47.928 --> 00:14:49.346
These people were killers.

00:14:51.015 --> 00:14:54.852
And I knew that in order
to be able to stand

00:14:54.852 --> 00:14:59.857
and face my daughter about
this, about what I have planned

00:15:00.774 --> 00:15:02.943
I need to be able to show her proof.

00:15:02.943 --> 00:15:06.238
I need to be able to show
the rest of the world proof.

00:15:06.238 --> 00:15:10.242
So I went to the Islamic
Center to get the proof.

00:15:10.242 --> 00:15:13.579
I didn't wanna be with these people.

00:15:13.579 --> 00:15:16.123
Cuz if I walk inside this
building, I might not come out.

00:15:22.421 --> 00:15:26.216
- When I first saw him, I
was driving down the street

00:15:26.216 --> 00:15:30.721
and then I was actually
coming to the masjid.

00:15:30.721 --> 00:15:34.058
And when I saw him, he
was walking kind of fast.

00:15:34.058 --> 00:15:36.393
His head was kind of down, kind of lower.

00:15:36.393 --> 00:15:40.439
You know, he was kind of red in
the face a little bit.

00:15:40.439 --> 00:15:42.066
Like, I knew something was wrong.

00:15:46.278 --> 00:15:47.112
Yeah.

00:15:54.495 --> 00:15:57.373
- So I walk in the building,
and all of a sudden it's like

00:15:59.249 --> 00:16:02.836
I felt my stomach tighten
up, chest tighten up.

00:16:04.171 --> 00:16:06.131
I tried to keep my senses about me.

00:16:07.424 --> 00:16:08.676
I got very anxious.

00:16:09.551 --> 00:16:10.678
I didn't trust them.

00:16:11.762 --> 00:16:13.973
I considered myself,

00:16:13.973 --> 00:16:18.936
somebody as a future
news story on Al Jazeera.

00:16:19.895 --> 00:16:21.772
By the end of the night, I
figured they would have me

00:16:21.772 --> 00:16:23.857
in the basement with a sword to my throat.

00:16:25.150 --> 00:16:28.404
- He just looked like
this guy that had a lot

00:16:28.404 --> 00:16:31.907
on his mind, pacing back and forth.

00:16:31.907 --> 00:16:33.200
I remember saying that
there's something not right

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:34.493
with this guy.

00:16:34.493 --> 00:16:37.037
- He looks at me and I look at him.

00:16:37.037 --> 00:16:40.249
He smiles and he said, can I help you?

00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:45.504
- My first impression of seeing him

00:16:48.173 --> 00:16:53.137
I don't want to say
like, was a little scary.

00:16:56.223 --> 00:16:58.600
- I looked around thinking about my plan.

00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.728
And I actually looked at individuals like,

00:17:02.146 --> 00:17:05.149
yep, he's gone, he's gone.

00:17:06.692 --> 00:17:11.321
- My first impression of
McKinney was he seemed to be

00:17:13.407 --> 00:17:14.742
like a redneck.

00:17:17.369 --> 00:17:22.374
So it was somewhat scary in the beginning,

00:17:23.167 --> 00:17:24.668
but

00:17:24.668 --> 00:17:28.672
he came to the masjid and
he's like a guest also.

00:17:28.672 --> 00:17:32.551
So I couldn't help it except to hug him

00:17:32.551 --> 00:17:37.139
and make him feel, not
artificially, from my heart

00:17:37.139 --> 00:17:41.226
that he is welcome and he is part of us.

00:17:44.813 --> 00:17:47.566
- To this day that still
doesn't make any sense to me.

00:17:47.566 --> 00:17:48.400
to this day.

00:17:50.694 --> 00:17:53.489
These people kill non-believers for sport.

00:17:53.489 --> 00:17:54.907
It's what they do.

00:17:54.907 --> 00:17:56.325
It's in their book.

00:17:58.952 --> 00:18:00.079
He sits at my feet.

00:18:01.538 --> 00:18:03.207
He hugged my leg.

00:18:03.207 --> 00:18:06.460
This guy doesn't know me, hugged my leg.

00:18:07.836 --> 00:18:08.921
That was pretty heavy.

00:18:11.340 --> 00:18:13.926
They don't even know the truth.

00:18:16.095 --> 00:18:17.262
- That is one of my duty.

00:18:17.262 --> 00:18:18.972
When you say salam to somebody,

00:18:18.972 --> 00:18:22.893
salam, what that means
to tell this other person

00:18:22.893 --> 00:18:26.396
that you are safe from me,
there will be no danger from me.

00:18:29.191 --> 00:18:30.984
- I just wanted to die.

00:18:30.984 --> 00:18:31.985
That's all I wanted.

00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:35.823
I wanted the peace man.

00:18:35.823 --> 00:18:37.324
I needed to stop the voices.

00:18:37.324 --> 00:18:39.409
I needed to stop the noise.

00:18:39.409 --> 00:18:40.994
And I just wanted the peace.

00:18:44.790 --> 00:18:45.749
- Somehow,

00:18:45.749 --> 00:18:47.668
I believe that he was genuine

00:18:47.668 --> 00:18:50.838
and he has issue.

00:18:50.838 --> 00:18:52.297
All of us have issue,

00:18:52.297 --> 00:18:55.134
in the military
post-traumatic stress syndrome

00:18:55.134 --> 00:18:57.094
whatever that might be
or some other thing.

00:18:57.094 --> 00:19:00.097
And maybe he's looking for a solution.

00:19:00.097 --> 00:19:01.682
He's looking for a solution.

00:19:01.682 --> 00:19:04.560
And if you can be a solution for him

00:19:04.560 --> 00:19:06.562
for some of his stresses, why not?

00:19:06.562 --> 00:19:09.982
Why not to be extra kind to him?

00:19:09.982 --> 00:19:12.109
- I comforted him.

00:19:12.109 --> 00:19:14.111
I gave him the attention.

00:19:15.362 --> 00:19:19.575
I think that's the basic
memory that I have.

00:19:19.575 --> 00:19:23.287
Not only just with Mac, I
would do this with any guest.

00:19:24.204 --> 00:19:27.249
- These people were
just plain old pleasant,

00:19:29.293 --> 00:19:32.296
happy to be alive, happy to be in America,

00:19:33.714 --> 00:19:37.134
just happy and more than
happy to talk to me.

00:19:39.636 --> 00:19:42.681
- I personally believe
that we need to be kind

00:19:42.681 --> 00:19:45.142
to those people even more.

00:19:45.142 --> 00:19:46.643
The people like, you know,

00:19:46.643 --> 00:19:49.813
sometime like they might
have some difficulty,

00:19:49.813 --> 00:19:53.942
some concerns, some stress.

00:19:53.942 --> 00:19:57.070
I personally believe that
we should be more kind

00:19:57.070 --> 00:20:00.657
to those than people who are successful

00:20:00.657 --> 00:20:03.035
or who already know what they're doing.

00:20:06.580 --> 00:20:08.832
- He can't completely forgive himself

00:20:10.417 --> 00:20:11.752
for the things that he did.

00:20:22.638 --> 00:20:24.806
- [Interviewer] What
are you thinking about?

00:20:28.644 --> 00:20:30.103
- Just how he,

00:20:32.898 --> 00:20:35.609
you know, he thought he was
doing the right thing and

00:20:37.027 --> 00:20:39.696
doing it for the right reasons and

00:20:39.696 --> 00:20:44.159
how much he sacrificed
and how much he suffered

00:20:44.159 --> 00:20:46.328
for the things that he was asked to do.

00:21:03.178 --> 00:21:04.304
- Actually, when he came back

00:21:04.304 --> 00:21:06.139
I was surprised to see him come back.

00:21:07.307 --> 00:21:09.559
Yes, he came. Not that same day,

00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.271
but he came back like the
next day and so forth.

00:21:13.438 --> 00:21:16.400
He started hanging around the masjid more,

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:20.320
coming to prayer, you know,

00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:22.197
coming to the dinners.

00:21:22.197 --> 00:21:23.949
- I think it was probably
one of the first times

00:21:23.949 --> 00:21:26.410
in a while where he felt
like he was just a part

00:21:26.410 --> 00:21:28.453
of something like that was bigger.

00:21:30.414 --> 00:21:32.040
He probably had been missing

00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:34.668
that part of his life for a while

00:21:37.629 --> 00:21:39.047
- We would talk about his wife.

00:21:39.047 --> 00:21:40.340
We would talk about his daughter.

00:21:40.340 --> 00:21:45.304
We would talk about his tours
he had in other countries.

00:21:45.304 --> 00:21:47.431
I thought they were very interesting

00:21:47.431 --> 00:21:49.766
because he came from an environment.

00:21:49.766 --> 00:21:53.353
He came from an environment
where he was killing Muslims.

00:21:53.353 --> 00:21:56.898
He was at war with Muslims.

00:21:58.150 --> 00:21:59.109
In his mind.

00:22:00.068 --> 00:22:01.820
So I was able to understand.

00:22:01.820 --> 00:22:05.032
- He definitely wanted to be a part

00:22:05.032 --> 00:22:07.409
of the community and he felt welcome.

00:22:07.409 --> 00:22:12.372
And he, you know, it was
really kind of bizarre because

00:22:13.540 --> 00:22:18.170
he was hugging the people
that he wanted to choke.

00:22:19.254 --> 00:22:20.922
- The more time I spent around them

00:22:20.922 --> 00:22:22.632
the more I started to change.

00:22:23.633 --> 00:22:25.469
It's been so long since I
was in the military, man.

00:22:25.469 --> 00:22:29.139
You know, I had this band of brothers,

00:22:29.139 --> 00:22:30.223
if you wanna call it.

00:22:34.394 --> 00:22:35.228
It was gone.

00:22:36.855 --> 00:22:38.106
We'd been disbanded.

00:22:39.691 --> 00:22:40.567
There was no more.

00:22:45.572 --> 00:22:48.200
It's funny I had a dream
that I was on the range

00:22:49.951 --> 00:22:51.828
and I had shot a paper target.

00:22:53.914 --> 00:22:57.376
And instead of just a hole
being put in that target,

00:22:58.752 --> 00:23:00.253
the target started bleeding.

00:23:05.008 --> 00:23:09.054
And I went down and I wiped off
the blood, it wouldn't stop.

00:23:12.474 --> 00:23:14.726
That target would not stop bleeding.

00:23:14.726 --> 00:23:16.937
Blood was just flowing from the target.

00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:23.151
That's when I really felt
things were about to change.

00:23:27.239 --> 00:23:29.116
It took eight weeks to change my mind.

00:23:30.951 --> 00:23:33.912
It took eight weeks to
remove all of that hatred,

00:23:33.912 --> 00:23:38.166
all of that planning, all of
everything outta my heart.

00:23:40.419 --> 00:23:41.920
I said, I need to be a Muslim.

00:23:52.431 --> 00:23:55.100
- I got off the bus one day from school.

00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:59.980
And I see all these people
standing outside my house in like

00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:04.609
FBI, like coats and jackets
and stuff like that.

00:24:04.609 --> 00:24:06.820
They were looking for something.

00:24:06.820 --> 00:24:08.947
And I didn't know what that something was.

00:24:10.866 --> 00:24:12.617
- We went to the apartment
where Mr. McKinney

00:24:12.617 --> 00:24:14.453
was residing at that point in time,

00:24:14.453 --> 00:24:17.164
went up to Mr. McKinney's
door, knocked on his door

00:24:17.164 --> 00:24:18.457
and Mr. McKinney answered.

00:24:19.666 --> 00:24:22.711
- They came and they questioned me.

00:24:22.711 --> 00:24:24.337
They asked if I mind

00:24:24.337 --> 00:24:27.132
if they would bring a
bomb dog to the house.

00:24:27.132 --> 00:24:29.050
Absolutely, you come right ahead.

00:24:30.343 --> 00:24:33.472
It had been disposed off,
it doesn't exist anymore.

00:24:34.431 --> 00:24:35.807
- We talked to him for
a little bit longer.

00:24:35.807 --> 00:24:37.309
The FBI agent did.

00:24:37.309 --> 00:24:40.270
We felt like Mr. McKinney
wasn't really a credible threat

00:24:40.270 --> 00:24:41.730
at that point in time,

00:24:41.730 --> 00:24:44.357
that he wasn't going to
put anything into action

00:24:44.357 --> 00:24:46.276
at that point in time.

00:24:46.276 --> 00:24:47.736
- I never thought in a million years,

00:24:47.736 --> 00:24:52.073
I felt kind of foolish
because I didn't recognize

00:24:52.073 --> 00:24:54.659
that that was even a
potential that he had.

00:24:54.659 --> 00:24:57.037
- It's still kind of
hard for me to even wrap

00:24:57.037 --> 00:25:01.416
around my head that my
dad would've been known

00:25:01.416 --> 00:25:03.084
as a mass murderer.

00:25:08.215 --> 00:25:11.343
- One of the members
came to me and asked me,

00:25:11.343 --> 00:25:15.388
do you know that Richard
was planning to do this?

00:25:15.388 --> 00:25:18.934
I cannot believe that
this is what I heard.

00:25:18.934 --> 00:25:21.937
That was the time I invited
him over for dinner.

00:25:24.648 --> 00:25:26.191
And I asked him, I say,

00:25:26.191 --> 00:25:30.987
what in the world were
you thinking Richard?

00:25:30.987 --> 00:25:32.822
- Remember like being amazed, like what?

00:25:32.822 --> 00:25:34.032
He wanted to do what?

00:25:34.032 --> 00:25:36.618
I remember asking him
what was the deal, man?

00:25:36.618 --> 00:25:37.994
What was going on through your head?

00:25:37.994 --> 00:25:39.579
What was your problem, man?

00:25:39.579 --> 00:25:41.289
- He didn't know anything better.

00:25:43.124 --> 00:25:44.668
That's exactly what he said.

00:25:44.668 --> 00:25:48.129
Sister Bibi, what, if I had met you,

00:25:48.129 --> 00:25:49.548
meeting somebody like you.

00:25:49.548 --> 00:25:52.175
If I had that much understanding

00:25:52.175 --> 00:25:54.344
I would have never thought about this.

00:25:54.344 --> 00:25:57.097
- You showed me the right way.

00:25:57.097 --> 00:26:00.684
You showed me what true humanity is about.

00:26:00.684 --> 00:26:02.686
Just put Islam aside for a second.

00:26:02.686 --> 00:26:05.397
You showed me what true
humanity was about.

00:26:08.567 --> 00:26:10.735
- [Man] Go get him
- [Child] I'm gonna.

00:26:10.735 --> 00:26:13.738
(people chattering)

00:26:15.824 --> 00:26:19.327
- When Mac went to the mosque
and the way he was treated,

00:26:19.327 --> 00:26:22.455
the way he was embraced,
it did save his life.

00:26:22.455 --> 00:26:25.625
It saved the lives of the community.

00:26:27.460 --> 00:26:30.922
Had they turned him away,

00:26:30.922 --> 00:26:32.799
had they treated him differently,

00:26:34.551 --> 00:26:36.303
it would be a whole different story

00:26:36.303 --> 00:26:37.846
than what he has to tell now.

00:26:39.055 --> 00:26:40.932
- Oh, I love the man.

00:26:40.932 --> 00:26:42.058
Mac is a great man.

00:26:42.058 --> 00:26:44.019
Mac is a good person.

00:26:44.019 --> 00:26:47.856
Now I have someone here who
can, who will definitely

00:26:47.856 --> 00:26:50.066
protect us if something
happened to us.

00:26:51.109 --> 00:26:52.485
- [Photographer] There
we go, you look great.

00:26:52.485 --> 00:26:56.531
- I do see Richard as my little brother

00:26:56.531 --> 00:27:01.286
and who came to the center and
then he needed that support.

00:27:03.121 --> 00:27:05.123
- So anyway, I appreciate everyone.

00:27:05.123 --> 00:27:08.084
I just want you to know that
that each and every one of you,

00:27:08.084 --> 00:27:12.672
even the ones that are not here
will always be in my heart.

00:27:12.672 --> 00:27:13.882
Thank you.

00:27:13.882 --> 00:27:18.386
(people clapping)

00:27:22.557 --> 00:27:25.477
I could never in a million years,

00:27:25.477 --> 00:27:28.480
could never repay this
community what they've given me.

00:27:30.732 --> 00:27:34.611
I see a lot of my actions now

00:27:34.611 --> 00:27:38.239
as a making of amends.

00:27:44.829 --> 00:27:48.375
Surah five, 32nd verse in the Quran.

00:27:49.918 --> 00:27:52.128
To kill one human being

00:27:52.128 --> 00:27:55.340
is as if you killed all of humanity

00:27:56.549 --> 00:27:59.344
but to save one human being

00:27:59.344 --> 00:28:02.347
is as if you saved all of humanity.

00:28:04.974 --> 00:28:07.352
I hope the day comes when
I can forgive myself.

00:28:10.271 --> 00:28:11.106
Maybe.

00:28:18.113 --> 00:28:23.118
- Islam was definitely a
positive, positive change for Mac

00:28:25.036 --> 00:28:27.789
and I ultimately supported that change,

00:28:27.789 --> 00:28:31.543
but it wasn't, you know, it
wasn't the right choice for me.

00:28:33.628 --> 00:28:35.922
Even though we're not married anymore,

00:28:35.922 --> 00:28:39.008
I still, I mean, I still care about him.

00:28:39.008 --> 00:28:42.095
I hope that he finds forgiveness

00:28:42.095 --> 00:28:46.391
for himself and that he can be happy.

00:28:49.894 --> 00:28:50.895
- I love my dad.

00:28:50.895 --> 00:28:52.856
He is still an amazing dad.

00:28:52.856 --> 00:28:55.442
He always likes to tell me dad jokes

00:28:55.442 --> 00:28:56.985
which I absolutely despise,

00:28:56.985 --> 00:29:00.071
yet I love at the same time,
but I won't tell him that.

00:29:01.156 --> 00:29:03.742
(somber music)