A sweeping look at the big political events of recent years in South Africa…
Behind the Rainbow
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Against the backdrop of South Africa's 2009 election, which saw Jacob Zuma become the country's third democratically elected president, BEHIND THE RAINBOW is a detailed exploration of the evolution of, and internal conflicts within, the ruling African National Congress (ANC), since it first came to power with Nelson Mandela's election in 1994.
The film's focus is on the development over the years of the relationship between two of the ANC's most prominent leaders, Thabo Mbeki - who followed Mandela as president and served from 1999 to 2008 - and Jacob Zuma, who was one of the most important commanders of the ANC's armed struggle against the apartheid government. Exiled under apartheid, they were once brothers in arms (they shared a prison cell together at one point). Under Mandela's administration, they loyally labored to build a non-racial state. But in recent years their duel threatened to tear the ANC apart.
BEHIND THE RAINBOW tells their story, one of friendship, comradeship, and eventual bitter personal conflict, with rich archival material and through in-depth interviews with both Mbeki and Zuma, as well as many of their current and former ANC colleagues, such as Terror Lekota (leader of the new opposition party COPE); Kgalema Motlanthe, Mac Maharaj and Ronnie Kasrils; members of South Africa's Communist Party; and many other important players in South African politics and observers of Mbeki and Zuma's stories.
The ANC's transition from a liberation organization into South Africa's ruling party has not been an easy one. Harsh economic inequalities, xenophobic attacks, corruption scandals, strikes and township protests all contributed to Mbeki's fall. Zuma may have won his battle with Mbeki, but his government is now facing the same problems. In recounting South Africa's recent political history, BEHIND THE RAINBOW is the story of how Zuma, the ANC, and South Africa, got to this crucial conjuncture.
"A must-see documentary!"—The Times
★★★★ "A powerful and insightful documentary"—The Star
"Intriguing, revealing must-see documentary... Brilliantly produced."—Sunday World
"While the film provides an engrossing view of political personalities, it also sheds lights on the complex processes of policy formation and political compromises. This richly-detailed documentary captures a unique span of recent history. El-Tahri's film will inform and engage students of political science and African studies."—Educational Media Reviews Online
Citation
Main credits
El-Tahri, Jihan (film director)
El-Tahri, Jihan (film producer)
El-Tahri, Jihan (screenwriter)
El-Tahri, Jihan (narrator)
Markovitz, Steven (film producer)
Other credits
Director of photography, Frank Lehmann; editor, Gilles Bovon; music, Ntjapedi.
Distributor subjects
Africa; African Studies; Comparative Government; History (World); Political Science; Politics; South AfricaKeywords
Thabo Mbeki; Jacob Zuma; ANC; Nelson Mandela; South African; African National Congress; documentary; film; video; DVD; president; party; politics; Zuma; Mbeki; ; "Behind the Rainbow"; Icarus Films; "Behind the Rainbow"; Icarus Films
WEBVTT
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A country that captured the world\'s admiration
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for the astounding reconciliation it achieved
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under the leadership of its icon,
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Nelson Mandela.
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Hosting the coming Football World Cup only confirmed
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the miraculous transformation of a nation
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that embraced democracy despite
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its violent legacy of apartheid.
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(people screaming)
(gunshot booming)
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Although the internal tensions had been simmering
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within Mandela\'s ruling party,
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the ANC,
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no one on the morning of September 21st 2008
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expected the dramatic announcement
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broadcast live on national TV.
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of the African National Congress for 52 years.
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I remain a member of the ANC,
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and therefore respect its decisions.
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It is for this reason that I\'ve taken the decision
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to resign as president of the Republic,
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following the decision
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of the National Executive Committee of the ANC.
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is the result of a protracted power struggle
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eating at the heart of the new South Africa.
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(choir singing South Africa\'s national anthem)
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in a logic of implosion
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that was written in the inability
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of this old Liberation Struggle Movement
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to turn itself into a modern political party.
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was fought out in public.
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In December 2007,
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when the ruling party
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held its National Conference in Polokwane.
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(cheering and chanting in a foreign language)
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It was there that Thabo Mbeki,
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the country\'s then president
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was pitted against his former deputy,
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Jacob Zuma,
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who was recently fired for allegations of corruption.
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The two men were there to contest the ANC\'s top job.
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This feud between brothers served as a lightning rod
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for all the problems that South Africa faces,
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and that were hidden by the myth of the Mandela miracle.
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(upbeat music)
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the corrosion of the noble goals,
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because of members
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who occupied positions of influence and responsibility
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were to be feted,
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and you know,
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and dined,
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and wined by those who owned and controlled resources.
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And they became slowly indebted.
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detailed the means to achieve a better life for all.
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But the harsh realities of inequality are resurfacing.
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Protests in the Townships,
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Xenophobic attacks and a series of corruption scandals
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have revealed that post-Apartheid South Africa
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is at a dangerous crossroad.
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(protest singing and chanting in a foreign language)
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This is the story of one of the world\'s most inspiring
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liberation struggles.
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And how the compromises of governing
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have eroded its promises and dreams.
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(uplifting guitar music)
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(people singing in foreign language)
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The ANC formed in 1912,
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is the oldest political movement on the continent.
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For 50 years the ANC,
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along with its alliance partners,
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the Communist Party,
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and other groups fighting for a non-racial South Africa
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had opted for peaceful resistance.
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(people singing in foreign language)
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But strikes,
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boycotts and defiance campaigns
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were crushed with brutal force.
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Defeating the militarized Apartheid system peacefully
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was proving futile.
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Like other African revolutionary movements
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they opted for armed struggle.
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In 1960 the ANC was banned.
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And three years later Nelson Mandela,
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and the entire leadership of the ANC were arrested.
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One leader escaped the police sweep.
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Oliver Tambo,
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Mandela\'s associate in the same law practice
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was ordered by the movement to go into exile,
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and keep the ANC\'s dream of freedom alive.
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(Oliver speaking in foreign language)
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He would be the torch bearer
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of the revolutionary aspirations of a nation.
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(Oliver Tambo and crowd chanting in foreign language)
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and this is what we always refer to
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as the dark ages of the ANC.
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Leadership had been in Robben Island,
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everybody else was in prison.
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Oliver Tambo who we always refer to as comrade O.R,
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he fought for the recognition of the ANC,
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he fought for us to have observer status of the UN.
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When he wasn\'t doing that,
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he was traveling around the different areas
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where the ANC was located.
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Tambo organized the stream of activists flocking into exile,
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finding training camps for the ANC\'s military wing,
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uMkhonto we Sizwe or MK,
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and coordinating the remnants of the underground
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that had escaped detection inside South Africa.
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He was determined to build the ANC into a united force
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that would compel the white regime to accept non-racialism.
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the problems were,
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he held the center together,
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and because he held the center together,
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he held the organization together.
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As long as O.R is around,
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the ANC will hold,
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its structures will build.
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When every other organization was falling apart,
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he kept it together.
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(slow paced music)
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of the ANC at the time was the need to maintain safety.
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Depth of loyalties that some people command
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comes from that time,
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where you had to trust each other with your own lives,
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basically,
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and the enemy was ever present in our camps,
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in our offices, etc.
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You\'d have fridges explode when you\'re in a queue
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to receive your rations,
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because somebody planted a bomb.
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Now all of that created a situation where
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there was very high compartmentalization.
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But it also demanded very high levels of trust in people.
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And when you look at how the ANC today dispenses authority,
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dispenses power,
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dispenses benefits.
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Those linkages show up,
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those networks still operate.
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That comes from that time.
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When the depths of trust were such
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that they have become lifelong associations.
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(slow paced string instrument music)
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association started in Swaziland.
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The ANC was desperately trying to connect
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its growing force in exile with trained militants
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that would fight inside South Africa.
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because with the collapse of the Salazar regime in Portugal.
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That opened the possibility for us to get into Swaziland,
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through Mozambique.
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It was important that the ANC
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should have that organized presence,
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immediately with immediate access
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to the people inside the country
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to revive the underground,
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to do things about the armed struggle.
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in KwaZulu Natal.
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I left the country.
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I then joined Thabo Mbeki and Albert Dlomo,
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and joined their structure,
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operated in Swaziland.
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as soon as possible,
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to be trained in order to be able to fight.
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and I walk into this room,
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there is Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma.
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I knew Thabo Mbeki obviously,
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because his father was Govan Mbeki,
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a well known political leader in the country.
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I knew Jacob Zuma as well,
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from reports in the newspapers,
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although he was not as prominent,
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I knew that they were now in Swaziland,
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trying to revive the ANC underground,
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which had been decimated through the terror.
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trained comrades into South Africa.
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We trained them in Swaziland politically,
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and trained them militarily in Swaziland.
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the ANC to conduct military activities from their soil.
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So the house from which the ANC operated
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was put under surveillance.
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just shortly thereafter the police came.
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They discovered a pistol with two magazines.
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There\'s a pistol, a Russian pistol called TT, T-T.
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Phew, they said,
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\"What is this? Mm-hmm?\"
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But first they discovered
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the magazines,
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they said,
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\"Where is the mother of these babies? Huh?\"
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(Jacob Zuma laughs)
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And they say,
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\"Let\'s go to the police station to talk a little bit.\"
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When the police say,
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\"Come to the police station,\"
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you are not likely to come back
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(chuckles).
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So I said,
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\"Let me eat first,\"
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so we ate,
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that\'s how we were arrested.
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Thabo came back later,
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I think was arrested
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the following day.
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\"we\'re trying to save you from being kidnapped
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by agents of the Apartheid regime\".
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So they kept us in protective custody for a month.
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spent a month in the same prison cell in Swaziland.
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It was there that they forged a solid bond.
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sleeping in different places.
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While sitting in the cell then,
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you get to know the man every day.
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He was a comrade that I could discuss
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politics with at any level,
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at any depth.
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And it was a pleasure to discuss with Thabo,
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because he had to the kind of understanding
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that I appreciated.
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Generally,
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our thinking was the same direction.
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Our working in Swaziland clicked
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and created a kind of a friendship.
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A comradely.
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A brotherly kind of feeling.
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Thabo Mbeki was Oliver Tambo\'s protege and right hand man,
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and Jacob Zuma was a key figure of the underground.
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The ANC could not risk having these important
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cadres captured by the apartheid regime.
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they came and said they were taking us to the airport.
253
00:11:44.231 --> 00:11:45.240
Matsapha,
254
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:47.493
to fly us out of Swaziland.
255
00:11:48.676 --> 00:11:51.140
256
00:11:51.140 --> 00:11:52.890
go to the airport we looked around,
257
00:11:53.730 --> 00:11:58.460
there was no Botswana aircraft.
258
00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:00.910
Suddenly during the check-in time we are told
259
00:12:00.910 --> 00:12:03.730
to check in on the South African plane.
260
00:12:03.730 --> 00:12:05.360
We said what?
261
00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.240
We said this cannot happen.
262
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:08.587
When we asked other people they say
263
00:12:08.587 --> 00:12:11.047
\"no, this plane is going to Johannesburg\".
264
00:12:11.047 --> 00:12:13.500
\"You then connect in Johannesburg,
265
00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:15.190
to go to Botswana\".
266
00:12:15.190 --> 00:12:16.800
We said over our dead bodies.
267
00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:20.190
268
00:12:20.190 --> 00:12:22.090
and the Department of Foreign Affairs.
269
00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:25.730
And so there was a bit of a confrontation
270
00:12:25.730 --> 00:12:28.520
with the Security Police and foreign affairs saying,
271
00:12:28.520 --> 00:12:31.390
You are not putting these people on that plane.
272
00:12:31.390 --> 00:12:35.050
273
00:12:35.050 --> 00:12:37.170
who agreed with him and talked to the others
274
00:12:37.170 --> 00:12:38.810
to say look these guys can\'t go.
275
00:12:38.810 --> 00:12:42.410
You are actually sending them to the lions you know.
276
00:12:42.410 --> 00:12:45.820
And that chief brought it.
277
00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:47.120
278
00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.472
They then drove us by road to Mozambique.
279
00:12:52.472 --> 00:12:53.820
(slow paced string instrument music)
280
00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:55.160
281
00:12:55.160 --> 00:12:57.313
the ANC did not stop trying.
282
00:12:58.529 --> 00:13:00.779
(shouting)
283
00:13:01.920 --> 00:13:04.830
Yet it wasn\'t until the mid 1980\'s
284
00:13:04.830 --> 00:13:06.850
that a vibrant underground movement
285
00:13:06.850 --> 00:13:09.250
inside South Africa flourished.
286
00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:12.450
But by then new tactics were need to confront
287
00:13:12.450 --> 00:13:15.363
the brutal white regime that was armed to the teeth.
288
00:13:16.890 --> 00:13:19.760
The answer came in the form of an alliance
289
00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:23.687
of over 350 civil organizations called
290
00:13:23.687 --> 00:13:26.150
the United Democratic Front.
291
00:13:26.150 --> 00:13:28.600
Which resorted to legal defiance
292
00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:30.683
to render the country ungovernable.
293
00:13:31.653 --> 00:13:34.660
The UDF openly used the Freedom Charter
294
00:13:34.660 --> 00:13:36.490
to demand a democratic,
295
00:13:36.490 --> 00:13:38.701
nonracial South Africa.
296
00:13:38.701 --> 00:13:41.451
(women chanting)
297
00:13:47.350 --> 00:13:50.730
As Apartheid South Africa became ungovernable,
298
00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:54.440
international economic sanctions began to bite.
299
00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:58.860
The cost of keeping its policy of racial segregation intact
300
00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:01.283
was proving impossible for the National Party.
301
00:14:04.270 --> 00:14:06.610
They had to turn to the ANC.
302
00:14:06.610 --> 00:14:07.690
from exile,
303
00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.600
Mbeki and Zuma led the team of secret negotiations,
304
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:15.563
while Mandela was negotiating with his captors inside jail.
305
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.290
But despite the secret talks,
306
00:14:20.290 --> 00:14:23.170
President DeKlerk\'s opening speech in parliament
307
00:14:23.170 --> 00:14:27.690
on the 2nd of February 1990 came as a surprise.
308
00:14:27.690 --> 00:14:30.680 line:15%
309
00:14:30.680 --> 00:14:32.010 line:15%
to listen to his speech,
310
00:14:32.010 --> 00:14:35.180 line:15%
and when the speech came on I switched it on,
311
00:14:35.180 --> 00:14:37.360
hoping that everybody was now just going to quiet down
312
00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.000
and listen to this speech and I was told
313
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.180
you\'re being very disruptive comrade Sue.
314
00:14:41.180 --> 00:14:42.350
You want to listen to the radio,
315
00:14:42.350 --> 00:14:44.160
would you please go outside.
316
00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:46.670
So I excused myself and I went outside
317
00:14:46.670 --> 00:14:50.853
and sat listening to this ANC on band.
318
00:14:51.970 --> 00:14:54.222
I mean complete pandemonium.
319
00:14:54.222 --> 00:14:56.200
Ecstasy.
320
00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:58.740
321
00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:00.430
the Pan-Africanist Congress,
322
00:15:00.430 --> 00:15:02.120
the South African Communist Party
323
00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.373
and a number of subsidiary organizations is being rescinded.
324
00:15:08.710 --> 00:15:09.543
325
00:15:09.543 --> 00:15:12.270 line:15%
I mean personally I was totally shocked because A.
326
00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:17.870 line:15%
Most revolutionaries and most activists consider themselves
327
00:15:17.870 --> 00:15:20.390
to be grounded in analysis,
328
00:15:20.390 --> 00:15:22.800
that our analysis allows us to predict,
329
00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:24.450
to think what is going to happen.
330
00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:27.250
In here we didn\'t know shit about this,
331
00:15:27.250 --> 00:15:28.990
this thing.
332
00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:30.523
It took us for a six.
333
00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:34.680
Up until that moment I saw a life in which,
334
00:15:34.680 --> 00:15:35.513
eventually,
335
00:15:35.513 --> 00:15:37.160
I would give my life to the revolution.
336
00:15:38.250 --> 00:15:41.150
There was now a very real possibility
337
00:15:41.150 --> 00:15:43.230
that I would have to live my life
338
00:15:43.230 --> 00:15:45.290
for a natural length of time
339
00:15:45.290 --> 00:15:47.610
and not be killed by the enemy.
340
00:15:47.610 --> 00:15:50.229
There was a feeling of like,
341
00:15:50.229 --> 00:15:51.810
yes in part we won.
342
00:15:51.810 --> 00:15:54.640
Because if we didn\'t do all the things we did
343
00:15:54.640 --> 00:15:56.470
they wouldn\'t have unbanned us.
344
00:15:56.470 --> 00:15:58.630
It was the other part of saying,
345
00:15:58.630 --> 00:15:59.463
Oh no,
346
00:15:59.463 --> 00:16:00.883
I have to confront a normal life.
347
00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:04.313
348
00:16:04.313 --> 00:16:08.113
Zuma was still on the regime\'s most wanted list.
349
00:16:09.150 --> 00:16:12.300
But he would be the first to come home to set things up
350
00:16:12.300 --> 00:16:14.440
for the release of political prisoners
351
00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.873
and the return of his exiled comrades.
352
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.120
353
00:16:21.980 --> 00:16:25.090
I was supposed to get off there would be Mike Louw waiting.
354
00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:26.650
So I went out first,
355
00:16:26.650 --> 00:16:29.423
greeted him and got into a car boop to Pretoria.
356
00:16:30.810 --> 00:16:32.457
Just before lunch.
357
00:16:32.457 --> 00:16:35.780
General Parsus Smith was the head of the special branch
358
00:16:35.780 --> 00:16:36.663
was called out,
359
00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:38.333
the campaign to me said,
360
00:16:38.333 --> 00:16:39.910
you know what,
361
00:16:39.910 --> 00:16:40.743
Combo,
362
00:16:40.743 --> 00:16:43.471
my headquarters are reporting,
363
00:16:43.471 --> 00:16:46.110
that they\'ve got it from a reliable source
364
00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:48.340
that Jacob Zuma is in the country.
365
00:16:48.340 --> 00:16:50.433
And they\'ve issued a warrant for arrest.
366
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:52.193
In the end,
367
00:16:53.089 --> 00:16:53.922
and I\'m sitting with him,
368
00:16:53.922 --> 00:16:56.693
reporting to him that this man is in the country,
369
00:16:56.693 --> 00:16:59.443
we\'ve issued a warrant of arrest.
370
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:04.761
371
00:17:04.761 --> 00:17:06.023
after 27 years in prison.
372
00:17:07.486 --> 00:17:09.794
That was the defining moment.
373
00:17:09.794 --> 00:17:13.493
A new chapter in the country\'s history had begun.
374
00:17:15.100 --> 00:17:17.910
But negotiations would prove more difficult
375
00:17:17.910 --> 00:17:19.683
than either side expected.
376
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.510
Issues like who would sit around the negotiating table,
377
00:17:25.510 --> 00:17:28.720
how would the thousands of MK soldiers return,
378
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.283
were difficult to resolve.
379
00:17:39.100 --> 00:17:42.630
The two sides disagreed on most points.
380
00:17:42.630 --> 00:17:45.083
Compromise would be the key to success.
381
00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:48.570
As leaders of the negotiating team,
382
00:17:48.570 --> 00:17:52.313
Mbeki and Zuma would have to walk a very fine line.
383
00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:56.476
384
00:17:56.476 --> 00:17:59.568
And we began to realize that it wasn\'t
385
00:17:59.568 --> 00:18:02.911 line:15%
going to be a Cuban style revolution.
386
00:18:02.911 --> 00:18:05.900 line:15%
With the beret on our heads
387
00:18:05.900 --> 00:18:09.110 line:15%
and the AK over our soldiers marching down
388
00:18:09.110 --> 00:18:11.160
the central Johannesburg.
389
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:14.070
This was a compromise situation.
390
00:18:14.070 --> 00:18:16.923
And we\'re not going to have a revolution.
391
00:18:17.850 --> 00:18:21.620
392
00:18:21.620 --> 00:18:23.780
to a situation where the regime
393
00:18:23.780 --> 00:18:27.210
would have to agree to some compromise,
394
00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:30.350
we would have to agree also to some compromise,
395
00:18:30.350 --> 00:18:34.230
provided that it ended the system of white minority rule.
396
00:18:36.780 --> 00:18:38.733 line:15%
397
00:18:40.370 --> 00:18:41.733 line:15%
And it was very clear,
398
00:18:42.630 --> 00:18:45.083 line:15%
that there\'s going to be an enormous struggle.
399
00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:49.780
About the space you would create in that solution
400
00:18:49.780 --> 00:18:53.390
to restructure the economy of this country.
401
00:18:53.390 --> 00:18:56.283
To de-racialize this economy and society.
402
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.770
Some comrades were confused how to handle
403
00:19:00.770 --> 00:19:03.400
the compromises that were needed.
404
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.400
It betrays a mindset that already saw the compromise mode
405
00:19:11.330 --> 00:19:16.173
as no longer defined in terms of maximize your space.
406
00:19:17.697 --> 00:19:21.693
407
00:19:22.850 --> 00:19:26.253
But the negotiations were creating internal conflicts.
408
00:19:27.650 --> 00:19:30.923
The movement needed to agree on a common strategy.
409
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.683
410
00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:37.713
Oliver Tambo.
411
00:19:40.401 --> 00:19:42.260
(singing in foreign language)
412
00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:44.200
413
00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:46.460
for the first time in 30 years,
414
00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:50.113
the ANC held its national conference on South African soil.
415
00:19:50.113 --> 00:19:53.946
(crowds cheering and singing)
416
00:19:55.950 --> 00:19:58.690
Within this highest decision making body,
417
00:19:58.690 --> 00:20:02.220
every delegate could express a view and influence
418
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.660
what would become official ANC policy
419
00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:05.913
for the next five years.
420
00:20:08.024 --> 00:20:10.274
(clapping)
421
00:20:12.360 --> 00:20:14.440
422
00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:19.320
meant that the ANC had lived as three parts.
423
00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:22.940 line:15%
And although there was an interaction between this parts.
424
00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:27.640 line:15%
It was not so intense as to keep us
425
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:29.658
as a homogeneous group.
426
00:20:29.658 --> 00:20:33.443
At a certain level there were differences,
427
00:20:34.360 --> 00:20:36.290
culturally and otherwise.
428
00:20:36.290 --> 00:20:38.960
429
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.590 line:15%
for years and years with nothing to do,
430
00:20:41.590 --> 00:20:44.190 line:15%
except discuss politics under the leadership
431
00:20:44.190 --> 00:20:48.240 line:15%
of Mandela and Walter Sisulu and Govan Mbeki
432
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.890
and all of those leadership and discussed
433
00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.370
and politicizing conscience as themselves
434
00:20:53.370 --> 00:20:55.050
and educated themselves.
435
00:20:55.050 --> 00:20:59.533 line:15%
436
00:20:59.533 --> 00:21:04.245 line:15%
had heard about all of these extraordinary individuals.
437
00:21:04.245 --> 00:21:07.640
Returning to the country erudite,
438
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:09.100
worldly.
439
00:21:09.100 --> 00:21:12.100
They didn\'t share information particularly easily.
440
00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:13.220
it was you know,
441
00:21:13.220 --> 00:21:15.360
about needing to know.
442
00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:17.190
They were fairly mistrustful of people
443
00:21:17.190 --> 00:21:19.570
they hadn\'t met and known for a long time.
444
00:21:19.570 --> 00:21:22.777
445
00:21:22.777 --> 00:21:25.230
446
00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:28.660 line:15%
was the comrades who worked inside in UDF structures
447
00:21:28.660 --> 00:21:31.211 line:15%
had a culture of talking.
448
00:21:31.211 --> 00:21:32.663
449
00:21:32.663 --> 00:21:34.170
450
00:21:34.170 --> 00:21:36.580
robustly unashamedly,
451
00:21:36.580 --> 00:21:38.550
whereas there was a much more disciplined,
452
00:21:38.550 --> 00:21:42.510
organized way that the comrades from exile had.
453
00:21:42.510 --> 00:21:44.650
You could recognize that they understood
454
00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:48.080
a particular pecking order in things
455
00:21:48.080 --> 00:21:51.030
and that you did not have an irreverence
456
00:21:51.030 --> 00:21:53.360
to leadership as as we had.
457
00:21:53.360 --> 00:21:56.270
458
00:21:56.270 --> 00:21:58.570
459
00:21:58.570 --> 00:22:00.530
sometimes sort of bumped against each other
460
00:22:00.530 --> 00:22:04.600
but I think at that time created this extraordinary brew.
461
00:22:04.600 --> 00:22:09.600
And you had the sense of observing history in the making
462
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.180
and observing the movement and its constituent parts,
463
00:22:14.180 --> 00:22:17.470
starting to meld into what would become
464
00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:19.646
the ANC within South Africa.
465
00:22:19.646 --> 00:22:21.813
(singing)
466
00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:32.910
467
00:22:32.910 --> 00:22:36.390
is a jealously guarded tradition in the ANC.
468
00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:39.030
Policy is formulated by consensus,
469
00:22:39.030 --> 00:22:40.800
even when it takes a lot of haggling
470
00:22:40.800 --> 00:22:43.070
to reach a collective decision.
471
00:22:43.070 --> 00:22:43.920
472
00:22:45.550 --> 00:22:46.910
473
00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:50.300
a major political concession was to be discussed.
474
00:22:50.300 --> 00:22:53.240
How to deal with the issue of sanctions.
475
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:54.530
476
00:22:54.530 --> 00:22:58.410
477
00:22:58.410 --> 00:23:03.410 line:15%
It was a very very tense moment,
478
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.560 line:15%
because we were under enormous pressure
479
00:23:06.560 --> 00:23:09.280
from the international community to show
480
00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:11.740
that we were being flexible.
481
00:23:11.740 --> 00:23:14.370
And one of the arguments then was
482
00:23:14.370 --> 00:23:19.010
that we have to take at least one of our central weapons,
483
00:23:19.010 --> 00:23:23.130
and now begin to remove it as a weapon of struggle.
484
00:23:23.130 --> 00:23:24.646
485
00:23:24.646 --> 00:23:26.746
486
00:23:27.606 --> 00:23:30.320
487
00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:31.970
the sanctions question.
488
00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:35.780 line:15%
489
00:23:35.780 --> 00:23:38.160 line:15%
in the liberation of South Africa was indeed.
490
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:43.000
The effect of the sanctions were felt in 1990 here.
491
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.836
When the then Minister of Finance argued
492
00:23:45.836 --> 00:23:47.566
why South Africa,
493
00:23:47.566 --> 00:23:49.680
white South Africa could not continue anymore.
494
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.870
So in the end it was economics,
495
00:23:51.870 --> 00:23:56.360
not racism ideology that drove them to negotiations.
496
00:23:56.360 --> 00:23:58.900
497
00:23:58.900 --> 00:24:01.970
we need to encourage these other people.
498
00:24:01.970 --> 00:24:03.980
You need to be providing these carrots,
499
00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:05.900 line:15%
so that when they move,
500
00:24:05.900 --> 00:24:07.680 line:15%
they take a step forward,
501
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:09.473 line:15%
you need to say well done.
502
00:24:11.530 --> 00:24:13.620
In our own interest
503
00:24:13.620 --> 00:24:15.943
but please take the next step.
504
00:24:16.970 --> 00:24:19.230
But for the positive step that you\'ve taken,
505
00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:20.430
please have this carrot.
506
00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:23.480
507
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.060
about Mandela to a degree
508
00:24:25.060 --> 00:24:29.020
and certainly Mbeki and Zuma.
509
00:24:29.020 --> 00:24:30.653 line:15%
I wasn\'t an Mbeki fan.
510
00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:33.310 line:15%
I wasn\'t a Zuma fan.
511
00:24:33.310 --> 00:24:34.750 line:15%
I was very much with Slovo,
512
00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:35.730 line:15%
Chris Hani,
513
00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:39.230
we were watching these guys very closely,
514
00:24:39.230 --> 00:24:44.090
thinking that they were taking certain steps
515
00:24:44.090 --> 00:24:46.140
towards compromise and reconciliation
516
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.590
which we needed to watch carefully.
517
00:24:48.590 --> 00:24:53.010
And in terms of Mbeki coming and speaking,
518
00:24:53.010 --> 00:24:56.170
that we should lift the sanctions against South Africa
519
00:24:56.170 --> 00:25:00.754
as early as July, 1991.
520
00:25:00.754 --> 00:25:03.310
I was dead against that.
521
00:25:03.310 --> 00:25:05.170
522
00:25:05.170 --> 00:25:06.589
for example,
523
00:25:06.589 --> 00:25:07.540
some of us felt that the sanctions
524
00:25:07.540 --> 00:25:09.120
should have been maintained,
525
00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:11.571
until the elections took place,
526
00:25:11.571 --> 00:25:13.220
and there was a transfer of power.
527
00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:15.700
Others felt that that may be too late.
528
00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:17.610
Two or three years down the road.
529
00:25:17.610 --> 00:25:21.000
The economy of South Africa may be totally destroyed.
530
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.075
531
00:25:23.075 --> 00:25:25.760
in the ANC conference are rational people.
532
00:25:25.760 --> 00:25:28.100
We presented the argument and it was quite clear
533
00:25:28.100 --> 00:25:30.670
that it wouldn\'t help us.
534
00:25:30.670 --> 00:25:33.730
Just to insist maintain that whole body of sanctions,
535
00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:34.563
as was,
536
00:25:34.563 --> 00:25:36.050
as though there\'s no nothing
537
00:25:36.050 --> 00:25:39.200
that is moving in the context of the negotiations.
538
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:44.200
We inevitably puts the movement in positions of defeat.
539
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.480
I think is wrong.
540
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:51.480
541
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.310
sensing the mood of the meeting
542
00:25:55.310 --> 00:25:58.790
and talking into our very souls
543
00:25:58.790 --> 00:26:01.670
and motivating why we should do it.
544
00:26:01.670 --> 00:26:06.570
And I found myself voting for it at the end of his speech.
545
00:26:06.570 --> 00:26:08.040
So comrade chair I\'m saying
546
00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:10.473
that the ANC must take responsibility
547
00:26:10.473 --> 00:26:13.213
for the implementation of such a plan.
548
00:26:15.004 --> 00:26:17.170
549
00:26:17.170 --> 00:26:19.763
But the real battle was only just starting.
550
00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:25.600
O.R. Tambo had suffered an incapacitating stroke
551
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:29.360
and was no longer a contender for the ANC presidency,
552
00:26:29.360 --> 00:26:31.770
a post he had held for 28 years.
553
00:26:31.770 --> 00:26:35.763
554
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.610
no ballot was necessary.
555
00:26:39.610 --> 00:26:42.630
And I accordingly take great pleasure in announcing
556
00:26:42.630 --> 00:26:45.423
the election of comrade Nelson Mandela
557
00:26:45.423 --> 00:26:46.845
to the post of president.
558
00:26:46.845 --> 00:26:49.595
(crowd cheering)
559
00:26:52.813 --> 00:26:55.300
560
00:26:55.300 --> 00:26:58.200
was around the post of Deputy President.
561
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:00.090
That would indicate who would be
562
00:27:00.090 --> 00:27:02.763
the next generation of leaders of the ANC.
563
00:27:07.070 --> 00:27:09.269
Because of his relationship with Tambo,
564
00:27:09.269 --> 00:27:11.313
Mbeki was the front runner.
565
00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:15.810
But the compromises he argued in favor of
566
00:27:15.810 --> 00:27:18.763
during the negotiations made him controversial.
567
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.770
568
00:27:23.770 --> 00:27:25.770
has been nominated and would be standing
569
00:27:25.770 --> 00:27:28.163
for elections to the post of Deputy President.
570
00:27:29.150 --> 00:27:31.138
And the moment that was announced,
571
00:27:31.138 --> 00:27:34.880
somebody else stood up and nominated Chris Hani
572
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:36.673
and he said I accept the position.
573
00:27:40.607 --> 00:27:44.857
And you then knew there was a fire fight going on.
574
00:27:47.030 --> 00:27:48.420
And Chris said,
575
00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:50.130
I will stand.
576
00:27:50.130 --> 00:27:54.470
I will not allow Thabo to be unchallenged to that position.
577
00:27:54.470 --> 00:27:57.258
578
00:27:57.258 --> 00:27:59.600
579
00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:00.640
MK.
580
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.850
And the leader of the Communist Party,
581
00:28:02.850 --> 00:28:05.413
the ANC\'s powerful alliance partner.
582
00:28:06.810 --> 00:28:09.740
He and other militants feared that Mbeki
583
00:28:09.740 --> 00:28:11.413
was selling the ANC out.
584
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:16.083
585
00:28:16.083 --> 00:28:17.389
he was a warrior.
586
00:28:17.389 --> 00:28:18.670
And he had enormous popular support
587
00:28:18.670 --> 00:28:19.900
particularly from people
588
00:28:19.900 --> 00:28:21.733
who\'d been within uMkhonto we Sizwe.
589
00:28:22.660 --> 00:28:24.470
He was a very charismatic speaker,
590
00:28:24.470 --> 00:28:27.450
he connected very easily with audiences.
591
00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:30.300 line:15%
He was almost the polar opposite to Thabo Mbeki.
592
00:28:30.300 --> 00:28:32.610 line:15%
Thabo Mbeki had never spent much time
593
00:28:32.610 --> 00:28:34.500 line:15%
in the uMkhonto we Sizwe camps.
594
00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:36.460
He had been in London.
595
00:28:36.460 --> 00:28:38.690
He was more English than the English
596
00:28:38.690 --> 00:28:40.770
in his tweed jacket and his pipe.
597
00:28:40.770 --> 00:28:44.033
he was quite a stiff character not particularly warm.
598
00:28:46.550 --> 00:28:50.540
And he felt that Mbeki would be very willing
599
00:28:50.540 --> 00:28:51.470
to accommodate,
600
00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:54.210
particularly white business community,
601
00:28:54.210 --> 00:28:56.080
white capital in South Africa,
602
00:28:56.080 --> 00:29:00.720
and that foremost in his mind would not be
603
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:02.873
the plight of the poorest in South Africa.
604
00:29:04.460 --> 00:29:06.373
605
00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:09.763
this is going to be a phenomenal hash.
606
00:29:10.730 --> 00:29:14.440
No matter how much each was spoken to to back off.
607
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.153
Neither was prepared to back off.
608
00:29:17.290 --> 00:29:20.050
609
00:29:20.050 --> 00:29:22.261
where they came out of committee
610
00:29:22.261 --> 00:29:23.890
walking together and talking.
611
00:29:23.890 --> 00:29:26.040
And we confronted them.
612
00:29:26.040 --> 00:29:27.600
We said comrades.
613
00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:29.600 line:15%
What do we tell the world?
614
00:29:29.600 --> 00:29:31.077 line:15%
Where are we on this?
615
00:29:31.077 --> 00:29:33.010 line:15%
And they said no but we\'re not candidates,
616
00:29:33.010 --> 00:29:34.401
so.
617
00:29:34.401 --> 00:29:35.234
Okay.
618
00:29:35.234 --> 00:29:36.067
In that case,
619
00:29:36.067 --> 00:29:37.550
then the matter is very simple.
620
00:29:37.550 --> 00:29:38.560
621
00:29:38.560 --> 00:29:40.160
who had been a veteran of the movement
622
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.890
and on Robben Island with Mandela
623
00:29:42.890 --> 00:29:46.330
was then put into the position of the ANC\'s Deputy President
624
00:29:46.330 --> 00:29:48.940
to avoid a schism or a split
625
00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:52.490
within the organization around that succession.
626
00:29:52.490 --> 00:29:55.301
627
00:29:55.301 --> 00:29:56.933
for next time.
628
00:29:56.933 --> 00:30:01.330 line:15%
We had a sense that this was not just a regrouping
629
00:30:01.330 --> 00:30:03.160 line:15%
of the ANC.
630
00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:05.993 line:15%
We had a sense that our people were looking at us.
631
00:30:06.989 --> 00:30:11.620
And the country needed a sense of cohesion
632
00:30:11.620 --> 00:30:13.543
and unity behind the ANC.
633
00:30:15.850 --> 00:30:18.360
634
00:30:18.360 --> 00:30:21.390
but succession would become the thorny issue
635
00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:24.450
at almost every ANC national conference.
636
00:30:24.450 --> 00:30:27.414
The contest would always involve Thabo Mbeki
637
00:30:27.414 --> 00:30:29.510
and some other rival.
638
00:30:29.510 --> 00:30:30.710
Chris Hani,
639
00:30:30.710 --> 00:30:34.236
Cyril Ramaphosa and ultimately Jacob Zuma.
640
00:30:34.236 --> 00:30:38.736
(slow paced string instrument music)
641
00:30:38.736 --> 00:30:42.569
(singing in foreign language)
642
00:30:56.032 --> 00:31:00.365
But Mbeki and Zuma were bogged down in negotiations.
643
00:31:01.610 --> 00:31:03.680
The townships were up in flames
644
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:05.410
and the white regime was stoking
645
00:31:05.410 --> 00:31:07.453
the fires of ethnic violence.
646
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.580
It seemed that the country was on the brink of disaster
647
00:31:11.580 --> 00:31:13.253
and still there was no agreement.
648
00:31:16.790 --> 00:31:19.620
It would take another fundamental compromise
649
00:31:19.620 --> 00:31:20.903
to break the deadlock.
650
00:31:23.050 --> 00:31:26.140
651
00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:27.400
And the question was,
652
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:29.700
is it the right step?
653
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:33.200
We had suspended the armed struggle.
654
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:37.640
We had to call for the winding down of sanctions
655
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:40.430
against South Africa for clearly
656
00:31:40.430 --> 00:31:42.593
the stumbling block was now the regime.
657
00:31:44.450 --> 00:31:47.710
658
00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:49.993 line:15%
If we were the national party,
659
00:31:51.342 --> 00:31:53.760 line:15%
we would be very reluctant to lose power,
660
00:31:53.760 --> 00:31:56.320
and therefore would fight against change,
661
00:31:56.320 --> 00:31:58.140
because they\'re too fearful.
662
00:31:58.140 --> 00:32:00.800
It is black people that are always defined
663
00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:01.790
in a particular way,
664
00:32:01.790 --> 00:32:02.623
terrorists,
665
00:32:02.623 --> 00:32:03.456
communists,
666
00:32:03.456 --> 00:32:04.420
all these terrible things.
667
00:32:05.260 --> 00:32:08.070
You will be fearful of them taking over.
668
00:32:08.070 --> 00:32:09.860
So we said well,
669
00:32:09.860 --> 00:32:11.928
to address that fear.
670
00:32:11.928 --> 00:32:15.630
Let\'s offer them the sunset clauses to say,
671
00:32:15.630 --> 00:32:17.693
you will not lose power completely.
672
00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:21.330
You will let\'s let\'s come together
673
00:32:21.330 --> 00:32:22.620
and let\'s share that power
674
00:32:22.620 --> 00:32:24.800
so you\'ve got nothing to fear.
675
00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:28.532
And it meant not only retaining some of them in cabinet.
676
00:32:28.532 --> 00:32:31.410
It also maintaining and retaining people
677
00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:32.703
in the public service.
678
00:32:33.550 --> 00:32:34.620
Directors General,
679
00:32:34.620 --> 00:32:35.550
Chief of Police,
680
00:32:35.550 --> 00:32:36.610
Chief of the Military,
681
00:32:36.610 --> 00:32:37.510
people like that.
682
00:32:40.600 --> 00:32:44.350
683
00:32:44.350 --> 00:32:48.010 line:15%
this was not a principle that took us away from democracy,
684
00:32:48.010 --> 00:32:49.750 line:15%
this was a tactical issue.
685
00:32:49.750 --> 00:32:51.740 line:15%
That was the one side of the argument,
686
00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:52.940
we need to give into this
687
00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:55.130
then we can move forward towards democracy.
688
00:32:55.130 --> 00:32:57.980
It\'s a tactical question and let\'s give them that.
689
00:32:57.980 --> 00:33:00.000
And on the other part of the argument
690
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.170
was that if we do that,
691
00:33:02.170 --> 00:33:05.670
we\'re going to be seriously limiting our ability
692
00:33:05.670 --> 00:33:07.380
to transform South Africa,
693
00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:10.250
because these people are in the key positions.
694
00:33:10.250 --> 00:33:13.920 line:15%
695
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.020 line:15%
I can remember,
696
00:33:15.020 --> 00:33:17.250 line:15%
Pallo Jordan arguing against it.
697
00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:21.248
I can remember Mandela with his mouse Clark features,
698
00:33:21.248 --> 00:33:24.110
always very grave and basically saying
699
00:33:24.110 --> 00:33:25.840
we\'ve got to go with this my boys.
700
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:32.370
We can\'t upset the ship at this stage,
701
00:33:32.370 --> 00:33:35.550 line:15%
702
00:33:35.550 --> 00:33:38.850 line:15%
because I found that we\'re given far too much away.
703
00:33:38.850 --> 00:33:41.232
We needn\'t have made those guarantees.
704
00:33:41.232 --> 00:33:42.300
And of course,
705
00:33:42.300 --> 00:33:43.133
in the end,
706
00:33:43.133 --> 00:33:43.966
they became,
707
00:33:43.966 --> 00:33:46.370
they become a bit of an albatross around our neck.
708
00:33:47.650 --> 00:33:49.250
709
00:33:49.250 --> 00:33:51.020
that apartheid structures,
710
00:33:51.020 --> 00:33:53.792
would not be dismantled immediately.
711
00:33:53.792 --> 00:33:57.380
The foundation of the economy and property rights
712
00:33:57.380 --> 00:34:00.060
would remain intact and the same people,
713
00:34:00.060 --> 00:34:03.160
the ANC fought against would remain in their jobs
714
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:05.370
for five more years.
715
00:34:05.370 --> 00:34:07.630
And once these five years were over
716
00:34:07.630 --> 00:34:12.530
there was no clear proviso requiring that they be replaced.
717
00:34:12.530 --> 00:34:15.300 line:15%
718
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:17.430 line:15%
with a new civil service.
719
00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:19.940
And that\'s where the first hurdles came about
720
00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:23.500
because we then went into government
721
00:34:23.500 --> 00:34:25.933
with our previous oppressors,
722
00:34:28.773 --> 00:34:32.427
and had to wage a struggle within government
723
00:34:34.010 --> 00:34:36.100
to execute our program whilst
724
00:34:36.100 --> 00:34:39.690
they waged a struggle to maintain old relations,
725
00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:41.810
and old conditions.
726
00:34:41.810 --> 00:34:43.893
727
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.740
When you have an armed seizure of power
728
00:34:46.740 --> 00:34:49.590
you put the enemy up against the wall and you shoot them.
729
00:34:49.590 --> 00:34:50.530
So now,
730
00:34:50.530 --> 00:34:54.360
not just to do that and the no Nuremberg rallies nothing
731
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.800
and even to say they can keep their jobs and their pensions,
732
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:58.560
it was a very big leap.
733
00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:02.203
It was almost a leap of faith for many many comrades.
734
00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:05.100
735
00:35:05.100 --> 00:35:10.100
the international setting to say the things that we do here
736
00:35:10.240 --> 00:35:14.290
could turn significant parts of the world against us,
737
00:35:14.290 --> 00:35:16.190
which would not be right.
738
00:35:16.190 --> 00:35:18.340
If we hadn\'t done that.
739
00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:20.700
I think that you would have had
740
00:35:20.700 --> 00:35:24.073
a much more violent transition than we\'ve had.
741
00:35:29.900 --> 00:35:33.870
742
00:35:33.870 --> 00:35:37.240
and Joe and I are sitting there who\'s the staff
743
00:35:37.240 --> 00:35:39.294
they were all officers,
744
00:35:39.294 --> 00:35:43.180
some civilians from the former regime.
745
00:35:43.180 --> 00:35:45.130 line:15%
And we\'ve got to interview them all
746
00:35:46.014 --> 00:35:49.730 line:15%
and we\'re kind of very suspicious of everybody.
747
00:35:49.730 --> 00:35:52.040 line:15%
And they were all pretty tense.
748
00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:53.655 line:15%
749
00:35:53.655 --> 00:35:55.280 line:15%
They were all there.
750
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.053 line:15%
Sitting there in their same positions.
751
00:36:02.160 --> 00:36:05.120
752
00:36:05.120 --> 00:36:08.050
of the ministry was a very nice person.
753
00:36:08.050 --> 00:36:09.410
And we\'re having tea one day
754
00:36:09.410 --> 00:36:11.050
and we\'re talking about the old days
755
00:36:11.050 --> 00:36:14.990
and the Air Forces attack on our camp
756
00:36:14.990 --> 00:36:18.040
at Nova Contango in the south of Angola
757
00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:20.070
and I was in that camp,
758
00:36:20.070 --> 00:36:23.480
and was being bombed and it turned out that he was leading
759
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.743
that squadron that attacked that camp.
760
00:36:26.901 --> 00:36:28.930
And he said to me,
761
00:36:28.930 --> 00:36:31.520
do you want to see the plans for that attack
762
00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:33.643
we\'ve got the documents here still.
763
00:36:35.690 --> 00:36:38.602
764
00:36:38.602 --> 00:36:41.100
(slow paced string instrument music)
765
00:36:41.100 --> 00:36:44.900
But what then seemed to be a short term tactical move
766
00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:47.210
turned out to have a long lasting effect
767
00:36:47.210 --> 00:36:49.243
on the very nature of transformation.
768
00:36:53.350 --> 00:36:57.460
769
00:36:57.460 --> 00:36:59.900
you were fighting suddenly have disappeared into thin air
770
00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:01.070
and they\'re not fighting anymore,
771
00:37:01.070 --> 00:37:02.590
it would be silly.
772
00:37:02.590 --> 00:37:04.560
Those old guard.
773
00:37:04.560 --> 00:37:06.060
Unfortunately,
774
00:37:06.060 --> 00:37:07.120
a lot of them stored,
775
00:37:07.120 --> 00:37:08.840
a lot of them blockaged.
776
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:10.830
That held back transformation
777
00:37:10.830 --> 00:37:12.240
in the Department of Defense,
778
00:37:12.240 --> 00:37:13.750
by many years.
779
00:37:13.750 --> 00:37:15.480
It\'s impacted in intelligence,
780
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:17.470
especially on the security structures,
781
00:37:17.470 --> 00:37:22.470
because that\'s where a lot of the old guard had power,
782
00:37:22.990 --> 00:37:25.690
was in the security organs of state,
783
00:37:25.690 --> 00:37:29.480
so that the security sector is still territory
784
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:30.870
that\'s being fought over.
785
00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:36.404
786
00:37:36.404 --> 00:37:40.030
public confidence in democratic institutions,
787
00:37:40.030 --> 00:37:42.937 line:15%
which I think is the one most serious threats
788
00:37:43.836 --> 00:37:45.040 line:15%
to democracy in our country
789
00:37:46.701 --> 00:37:48.743
are a consequence of the sunset clauses.
790
00:37:49.950 --> 00:37:52.090
Like for instance that most black people
791
00:37:52.090 --> 00:37:55.043
don\'t think they can get justice in our law courts.
792
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.410
You still have on the bench in the judiciary.
793
00:38:00.410 --> 00:38:01.800
I\'m sure if you did the head count
794
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.710
you\'d find the majority of the appointees
795
00:38:04.710 --> 00:38:06.890
of the apartheid regime.
796
00:38:06.890 --> 00:38:11.490
Now if people start feeling that in this
797
00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:15.050
this thing actually doesn\'t work we need something else.
798
00:38:15.050 --> 00:38:17.850
Now that does become a serious threat to democracy
799
00:38:17.850 --> 00:38:20.163
and undermined confidence in democracy.
800
00:38:22.117 --> 00:38:24.950
801
00:38:24.950 --> 00:38:27.073
could not have been anticipated then.
802
00:38:29.470 --> 00:38:31.400
They were at that critical moment,
803
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:35.390
an essential compromise to ensure a peaceful transition
804
00:38:35.390 --> 00:38:38.003
and a move to a non-racial democracy.
805
00:38:39.130 --> 00:38:40.790
Despite the concessions,
806
00:38:40.790 --> 00:38:43.633
setting an election date remained elusive.
807
00:38:45.870 --> 00:38:49.050
It was the dramatic assassination of Chris Hani
808
00:38:49.050 --> 00:38:50.880
by white extremists,
809
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.150
which plunged the country into chaos,
810
00:38:53.150 --> 00:38:56.577
that finally forced the apartheid regime to comply.
811
00:38:57.493 --> 00:38:59.993
(local music)
812
00:39:04.556 --> 00:39:07.194
813
00:39:07.194 --> 00:39:09.164
out of the box,
814
00:39:09.164 --> 00:39:10.414
Nelson Mandela.
815
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.510
816
00:39:15.510 --> 00:39:17.060
And the dawn of hope prevailed.
817
00:39:20.810 --> 00:39:23.800
Nelson Mandela\'s commitment to reconciliation
818
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:25.880
was uncontested.
819
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:28.950
His dream of a democratic rainbow nation
820
00:39:28.950 --> 00:39:31.620
was finally becoming a reality.
821
00:39:31.620 --> 00:39:34.453
(crowds chanting)
822
00:39:50.250 --> 00:39:53.040
823
00:39:53.040 --> 00:39:55.390
by the government to organize the lunch,
824
00:39:55.390 --> 00:39:57.670
she was briefing us on where we would sit,
825
00:39:57.670 --> 00:39:59.330
wear and what.
826
00:39:59.330 --> 00:40:02.550 line:15%
And at one point they had Fidel Castro
827
00:40:02.550 --> 00:40:04.990 line:15%
and the wife of Clinton
828
00:40:04.990 --> 00:40:08.253 line:15%
sitting next to each other.
829
00:40:09.180 --> 00:40:11.207
That was not on.
830
00:40:11.207 --> 00:40:13.637
I mean it was not going to happen.
831
00:40:20.910 --> 00:40:24.840
And of course Madiba had very specific instructions
832
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.560
that the people who supported us in our liberation
833
00:40:27.560 --> 00:40:29.910
had to sit in the front rows.
834
00:40:29.910 --> 00:40:32.690
The government of the clear cut had a different view.
835
00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:34.470
That countries that supported them
836
00:40:34.470 --> 00:40:36.120
and even passed sanctions,
837
00:40:36.120 --> 00:40:38.270
and they had to sit in a particular way.
838
00:40:38.270 --> 00:40:40.370
So the seating arrangements became an issue
839
00:40:40.370 --> 00:40:41.660
but they were very political.
840
00:40:41.660 --> 00:40:43.130
Who sits next to who,
841
00:40:43.130 --> 00:40:44.790
and who can\'t sit next to who
842
00:40:44.790 --> 00:40:48.090
and what happens to Gaddafi when he comes,
843
00:40:48.090 --> 00:40:50.610
given that he was also at the time,
844
00:40:50.610 --> 00:40:53.610
regarded by the West as a pariah.
845
00:40:53.610 --> 00:40:55.860
But we had a very clear decision.
846
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:59.070
They would sit where Madiba wanted them to sit,
847
00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:02.550
so the people who supported the ANC
848
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:05.260
and other liberation movements
849
00:41:05.260 --> 00:41:06.660
during our struggle years,
850
00:41:06.660 --> 00:41:08.340
got the front row seats.
851
00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:09.763
And we won that day.
852
00:41:10.606 --> 00:41:12.856
(chanting)
853
00:41:19.288 --> 00:41:20.890
854
00:41:20.890 --> 00:41:22.100
Such that the military
855
00:41:23.220 --> 00:41:25.573 line:15%
and the police to go to behind Nelson Mandela,
856
00:41:26.567 --> 00:41:29.610 line:15%
and we already discovered late that MK won\'t be there
857
00:41:29.610 --> 00:41:33.350
our former commander was now Minister of Defense.
858
00:41:33.350 --> 00:41:34.380
In this government,
859
00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:35.950
and so they were invited to sit there
860
00:41:35.950 --> 00:41:40.950
so we decided to also impose ourselves into that situation,
861
00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:44.863
wearing our own MK uniform.
862
00:41:50.623 --> 00:41:54.623
(crowd singing national anthem)
863
00:42:00.020 --> 00:42:02.320
864
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.623
watching that flyover of airplanes and helicopters.
865
00:42:07.600 --> 00:42:09.540
And those helicopters flying over
866
00:42:09.540 --> 00:42:11.350 line:15%
were not going to shoot at us.
867
00:42:11.350 --> 00:42:15.820 line:15%
They were flying the new flag of the New South Africa.
868
00:42:15.820 --> 00:42:16.653
And,
869
00:42:16.653 --> 00:42:17.970
and that was a wonderful moment,
870
00:42:17.970 --> 00:42:20.550
because before what helicopters meant to us
871
00:42:20.550 --> 00:42:23.380
was the helicopters used to come into the township
872
00:42:23.380 --> 00:42:24.213
with big lights,
873
00:42:24.213 --> 00:42:25.940
search lights,
874
00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:28.070
and that would always be a moment of death
875
00:42:28.070 --> 00:42:30.443
for people in our townships.
876
00:42:46.136 --> 00:42:48.970
(slow paced string instrument music)
877
00:42:48.970 --> 00:42:51.100
878
00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:54.453
to succeed in its fairy tale like transformation.
879
00:42:55.630 --> 00:42:58.014
Nelson Mandela\'s new government could finally
880
00:42:58.014 --> 00:43:02.793
rectify the injustices of half a century of apartheid.
881
00:43:04.650 --> 00:43:07.710
The dream embodied in the Freedom Charter,
882
00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:10.900
for which he had spent his entire adult life in prison,
883
00:43:10.900 --> 00:43:12.253
was now reality.
884
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:16.810
The ANC project for the future,
885
00:43:16.810 --> 00:43:19.120
was contained in one document
886
00:43:19.120 --> 00:43:22.180
called the Reconstruction and Development Program,
887
00:43:22.180 --> 00:43:23.173
or RDP.
888
00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:26.410
889
00:43:26.410 --> 00:43:29.340 line:15%
of housing acquisition of land,
890
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:30.173 line:15%
water,
891
00:43:30.173 --> 00:43:31.853 line:15%
the right the right to water,
892
00:43:33.150 --> 00:43:34.810
electrification of the country,
893
00:43:34.810 --> 00:43:36.210
infrastructure development,
894
00:43:36.210 --> 00:43:37.460
job creation.
895
00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:40.760
I mean the RDP addressed every possible need
896
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.690
that we identified that we didn\'t have before.
897
00:43:44.690 --> 00:43:46.720
During the apartheid years.
898
00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:48.300
899
00:43:48.300 --> 00:43:52.900 line:15%
driven by these ideals of socialism,
900
00:43:52.900 --> 00:43:57.900 line:15%
of equality and justice for all.
901
00:43:58.050 --> 00:44:02.840
And faced with these huge inequalities and deprivation.
902
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.780
How were we to provide for the basic wants of the people
903
00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:08.230
when there were no resources?
904
00:44:09.250 --> 00:44:14.090
The magnitude of the problem was a shock to our system.
905
00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:16.690
How could we make free education,
906
00:44:16.690 --> 00:44:19.410
given forever on 1994?
907
00:44:19.410 --> 00:44:21.003
When we knew straight away,
908
00:44:21.950 --> 00:44:24.200
first of all there\'s just not enough schools,
909
00:44:25.310 --> 00:44:27.613
our children were being educated under trees.
910
00:44:28.490 --> 00:44:29.980
I mean it\'s very easy to write a piece of paper
911
00:44:29.980 --> 00:44:31.513
and say education for all.
912
00:44:32.740 --> 00:44:37.740
We promise that we will open free hospital services
913
00:44:38.240 --> 00:44:40.750
to every child under the age of six,
914
00:44:40.750 --> 00:44:43.680
and to every expectant mother.
915
00:44:43.680 --> 00:44:45.060
What happened?
916
00:44:45.060 --> 00:44:49.350
There was such a flood that our hospitals began to groan
917
00:44:49.350 --> 00:44:52.310
with the weight of patients,
918
00:44:52.310 --> 00:44:55.940
children and pregnant mothers coming for attention.
919
00:44:55.940 --> 00:44:58.290
You open the floodgates,
920
00:44:58.290 --> 00:45:00.630
so the thing began to collapse
921
00:45:00.630 --> 00:45:03.003
under the weight of a very good program.
922
00:45:05.290 --> 00:45:07.050
923
00:45:07.050 --> 00:45:08.683
with the reality of governing.
924
00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:14.200
The ANC\'s traditional alliance partners,
925
00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:18.230
the Communist Party and the trade union movement COSATU
926
00:45:18.230 --> 00:45:21.160
insisted that lifting people out of poverty,
927
00:45:21.160 --> 00:45:23.330
must be the priority.
928
00:45:23.330 --> 00:45:24.910
But led by Mbeki.
929
00:45:24.910 --> 00:45:27.500
The technocrats and the economists believe
930
00:45:27.500 --> 00:45:29.250
that the only way to do so,
931
00:45:29.250 --> 00:45:31.880
was through a market led economy.
932
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:35.840
A deepening rift started within the ruling alliance.
933
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:40.840
934
00:45:41.802 --> 00:45:46.802
to this more influenced by a free market economy,
935
00:45:47.814 --> 00:45:52.814
macro economic policies and it sounded very much
936
00:45:52.850 --> 00:45:55.520
like we were breaking a promise
937
00:45:55.520 --> 00:45:57.800
that we had made to ourselves.
938
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:02.400
That our economy would be crafted in such a way
939
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.130
that the people who benefits directly
940
00:46:05.130 --> 00:46:06.833
from what the economy could give.
941
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.290
942
00:46:17.290 --> 00:46:20.802
not to fall into the trap of other African nations,
943
00:46:20.802 --> 00:46:23.830
trying to keep unrealistic promises
944
00:46:23.830 --> 00:46:26.993
had led to the collapse of many an African economy.
945
00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:29.502 line:15%
946
00:46:29.502 --> 00:46:30.980 line:15%
in a sense,
947
00:46:30.980 --> 00:46:33.100 line:15%
is the mistake that many other countries
948
00:46:33.100 --> 00:46:34.680 line:15%
in the region have made like Zimbabwe,
949
00:46:34.680 --> 00:46:36.410
for example,
950
00:46:36.410 --> 00:46:40.269
when they got independence in Zimbabwe in 1980
951
00:46:40.269 --> 00:46:42.040
there was massive social spending,
952
00:46:42.040 --> 00:46:43.683
especially on education.
953
00:46:44.540 --> 00:46:45.373
Now,
954
00:46:45.373 --> 00:46:47.570
why do you say you don\'t go that route,
955
00:46:47.570 --> 00:46:49.890
because then you get into a situation
956
00:46:49.890 --> 00:46:53.030
as Zimbabwe got itself into then you call in the IMF
957
00:46:53.030 --> 00:46:54.150
in the World Bank,
958
00:46:54.150 --> 00:46:57.653
and then they impose a structural reform program on you.
959
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.057
960
00:47:02.057 --> 00:47:05.360
The government had to tighten its belt.
961
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.610
And the answer was a fiscal austerity program
962
00:47:08.610 --> 00:47:09.770
called GEAR,
963
00:47:09.770 --> 00:47:11.420
meaning growth,
964
00:47:11.420 --> 00:47:12.253
employment,
965
00:47:12.253 --> 00:47:13.563
and redistribution.
966
00:47:14.590 --> 00:47:17.390
Although GEAR was Thabo Mbeki\'s brainchild,
967
00:47:17.390 --> 00:47:20.400
this market oriented policy was approved
968
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.303
and defended by Mandela.
969
00:47:23.770 --> 00:47:28.107 line:15%
970
00:47:28.107 --> 00:47:32.660 line:15%
not our people saying these are our aspirations.
971
00:47:32.660 --> 00:47:34.600
Convert them into a program.
972
00:47:34.600 --> 00:47:36.250
That\'s where the conflicts began.
973
00:47:37.650 --> 00:47:38.560
974
00:47:38.560 --> 00:47:40.860
government would reduce social spending,
975
00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:44.190
privatize state enterprises and create a haven
976
00:47:44.190 --> 00:47:45.743
for foreign investment.
977
00:47:47.540 --> 00:47:49.817
Even the way this policy was introduced,
978
00:47:49.817 --> 00:47:52.510
without any consultation,
979
00:47:52.510 --> 00:47:54.023
seemed like a betrayal.
980
00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:57.470
981
00:47:57.470 --> 00:47:58.303
if you like,
982
00:47:58.303 --> 00:47:59.930
it didn\'t come through the front door.
983
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.068
And that I think,
984
00:48:02.068 --> 00:48:07.068
is what the complaint has been from the unions
985
00:48:07.150 --> 00:48:10.240
and other people on the left.
986
00:48:10.240 --> 00:48:14.420
That this is not an outcome of a policy plus.
987
00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:17.060
Things that come through the side window,
988
00:48:17.060 --> 00:48:19.490
usually are non negotiable.
989
00:48:19.490 --> 00:48:22.800
And then depend on the prestige of someone like Mandela,
990
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:24.520
to have to push through.
991
00:48:24.520 --> 00:48:28.300 line:15%
992
00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:30.650 line:15%
it\'s Mandela\'s project and it\'s Mandela
993
00:48:30.650 --> 00:48:33.500 line:15%
who introduced it and it\'s Mandela\'s words
994
00:48:33.500 --> 00:48:36.160
where this is not negotiable.
995
00:48:36.160 --> 00:48:40.340
And those words I can still hear ringing in my ears,
996
00:48:40.340 --> 00:48:43.680
and it was very difficult to argue with Mandela.
997
00:48:43.680 --> 00:48:45.460 line:15%
998
00:48:45.460 --> 00:48:47.993 line:15%
That here you inherited debt.
999
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:51.120 line:15%
And yet there are expectations.
1000
00:48:51.120 --> 00:48:52.773
That this freedom would mean,
1001
00:48:53.890 --> 00:48:54.723
you know,
1002
00:48:54.723 --> 00:48:57.250
improvements in the lives of ordinary people,
1003
00:48:57.250 --> 00:48:58.823
and the resources are limited.
1004
00:48:59.790 --> 00:49:02.453
You need to use those resources to service the debt.
1005
00:49:04.304 --> 00:49:06.170
And you can\'t go and borrow from the World Bank
1006
00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:08.320
and IMF because once you do that
1007
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.000
it means you are pawning your independence.
1008
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.650
1009
00:49:16.650 --> 00:49:17.500
of the debt,
1010
00:49:17.500 --> 00:49:20.623
without losing the independence.
1011
00:49:21.560 --> 00:49:23.440 line:15%
No one disagreed with the fact that,
1012
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:24.300 line:15%
for instance,
1013
00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:29.120 line:15%
we had to check our budget deficit.
1014
00:49:29.120 --> 00:49:32.180
But the content that we then had a problem,
1015
00:49:32.180 --> 00:49:37.180
because we felt that we set unrealistic fiscal targets.
1016
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:39.710
We\'re not saying that we should just allow
1017
00:49:39.710 --> 00:49:41.930
the government debt,
1018
00:49:41.930 --> 00:49:42.763
you know,
1019
00:49:42.763 --> 00:49:43.596
to balloon.
1020
00:49:44.510 --> 00:49:48.763
But 3% was like an IMF,
1021
00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:51.000
kind of recommendation,
1022
00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.810
we\'re not saying it was imposed by them
1023
00:49:52.810 --> 00:49:56.170
if we imposed it on ourselves.
1024
00:49:56.170 --> 00:49:58.780
A country coming out of such huge inequalities,
1025
00:49:58.780 --> 00:49:59.613
why should it,
1026
00:49:59.613 --> 00:50:01.570
why 3%? why not 6%?
1027
00:50:01.570 --> 00:50:02.403
For instance,
1028
00:50:02.403 --> 00:50:04.490
if we debated that we would have actually
1029
00:50:04.490 --> 00:50:06.237
have looked at all those things.
1030
00:50:06.237 --> 00:50:10.170
1031
00:50:10.170 --> 00:50:12.630
is going and going and gone forever,
1032
00:50:12.630 --> 00:50:16.200
but that is what our people wanted.
1033
00:50:16.200 --> 00:50:18.893
That\'s what they voted the ANC to come in and do.
1034
00:50:20.030 --> 00:50:23.730
So maybe we should find a way to marry
1035
00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:28.730
or to progress from GEAR to the basic concepts of the RDP,
1036
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.140
which is a tech poverty.
1037
00:50:31.140 --> 00:50:33.260
It\'s really what the RDP was about.
1038
00:50:33.260 --> 00:50:35.250
A tech poverty that\'s all.
1039
00:50:35.250 --> 00:50:38.000
1040
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:38.870
But in fact,
1041
00:50:38.870 --> 00:50:42.750
the ANC government had built 2.6 million houses,
1042
00:50:42.750 --> 00:50:45.450
given 40 million people access to water
1043
00:50:45.450 --> 00:50:48.063
and electrified 4 million households.
1044
00:50:49.040 --> 00:50:50.210
Its real achievement,
1045
00:50:50.210 --> 00:50:51.043
however,
1046
00:50:51.043 --> 00:50:54.153
was the impressive 6% annual growth rate.
1047
00:50:55.063 --> 00:50:56.540
Despite this growth,
1048
00:50:56.540 --> 00:50:58.910
unemployment skyrocketed.
1049
00:50:58.910 --> 00:50:59.743
1050
00:50:59.743 --> 00:51:01.790
with all of our best intentions,
1051
00:51:01.790 --> 00:51:04.550 line:15%
failing to address huge problems
1052
00:51:04.550 --> 00:51:08.140 line:15%
of mass unemployment figure of nearly 40%.
1053
00:51:08.140 --> 00:51:09.900 line:15%
It\'s doubled since 1994
1054
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:14.440
and stayed stubbornly close to 40% over the last five years.
1055
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.880
That\'s a huge national crisis.
1056
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:18.973
And we remain one of the most unequal societies
1057
00:51:18.973 --> 00:51:21.520
in the world and although privilege
1058
00:51:21.520 --> 00:51:23.870
is now somewhat de-racialized,
1059
00:51:23.870 --> 00:51:25.960
poverty remains absolutely racialized.
1060
00:51:25.960 --> 00:51:26.793
It\'s a black,
1061
00:51:26.793 --> 00:51:27.626
it\'s a female,
1062
00:51:27.626 --> 00:51:29.360
it\'s a rural reality,
1063
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:31.720
it\'s a township ghetto reality.
1064
00:51:31.720 --> 00:51:33.070
And we\'ve not changed that.
1065
00:51:37.640 --> 00:51:38.570
1066
00:51:38.570 --> 00:51:41.000
it was redistribution that mattered.
1067
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:42.593
But that was slow to come.
1068
00:51:44.690 --> 00:51:47.830
So while South Africa success was hailed abroad
1069
00:51:47.830 --> 00:51:49.830
as a model for Africa.
1070
00:51:49.830 --> 00:51:51.000
Internally,
1071
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:54.070
getting rid of apartheid inequalities
1072
00:51:54.070 --> 00:51:56.363
was advancing at a snail\'s pace.
1073
00:51:58.310 --> 00:52:03.310 line:15%
1074
00:52:05.180 --> 00:52:10.180 line:15%
When prices gallop off the most basic needs of our people.
1075
00:52:10.310 --> 00:52:11.143
Mielie meal,
1076
00:52:11.143 --> 00:52:11.976
petrol,
1077
00:52:11.976 --> 00:52:12.810
electricity,
1078
00:52:12.810 --> 00:52:13.643
water.
1079
00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:19.063
You allow those prices to find their market position.
1080
00:52:21.370 --> 00:52:23.023
And you have a budget surplus.
1081
00:52:25.831 --> 00:52:28.360
I mean the national press is very well
1082
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:30.293
except children are dying of hunger.
1083
00:52:32.500 --> 00:52:33.633
It\'s a contradiction.
1084
00:52:38.130 --> 00:52:40.940
1085
00:52:40.940 --> 00:52:42.170
BEE,
1086
00:52:42.170 --> 00:52:44.260 line:15%
came as the answer to the question
1087
00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:49.260 line:15%
about how do we get the poor to partake
1088
00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:52.770
and participate in this new free market,
1089
00:52:52.770 --> 00:52:53.950
free for all,
1090
00:52:53.950 --> 00:52:56.870
almost rampant free market economy.
1091
00:52:56.870 --> 00:53:00.143
1092
00:53:01.330 --> 00:53:03.253
It was their way of saying,
1093
00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:08.510
we are going to provide a piece of this economy
1094
00:53:08.510 --> 00:53:12.733
to some of the aspiring black people.
1095
00:53:14.350 --> 00:53:16.863
And please be satisfied with the little piece
1096
00:53:16.863 --> 00:53:19.920
that we carve out for these black people.
1097
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.473 line:15%
1098
00:53:23.120 --> 00:53:26.110 line:15%
The same old capitalist classes and apartheid
1099
00:53:26.110 --> 00:53:28.300
is still the same capitalist class
1100
00:53:28.300 --> 00:53:31.050
that controls the South African economy.
1101
00:53:31.050 --> 00:53:33.020
It\'s dominated by four banks.
1102
00:53:33.020 --> 00:53:36.120
You don\'t have for instance financing
1103
00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:38.120
for small and medium enterprises
1104
00:53:38.120 --> 00:53:41.200
because these big banks are less concerned about that,
1105
00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:44.163
they are about financing your big deals.
1106
00:53:45.100 --> 00:53:48.112
Black Economic Empowerment in South Africa now.
1107
00:53:48.112 --> 00:53:49.400
It\'s a noble objective,
1108
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:54.400
but it has tended really to only benefit a very small elite,
1109
00:53:54.570 --> 00:53:56.663
which is usually politically connected.
1110
00:53:59.460 --> 00:54:01.250
1111
00:54:01.250 --> 00:54:03.550
would become more and more apparent
1112
00:54:03.550 --> 00:54:07.070
in the composition of the country\'s political elite.
1113
00:54:07.070 --> 00:54:10.700
The same group who were yesterday\'s struggle heroes
1114
00:54:10.700 --> 00:54:13.110
became today\'s millionaires.
1115
00:54:13.110 --> 00:54:15.490
A handful of ANC faithfuls
1116
00:54:15.490 --> 00:54:19.353
would quickly monopolize access to the country\'s resources.
1117
00:54:20.570 --> 00:54:21.750
1118
00:54:21.750 --> 00:54:24.320
that\'s getting promoted out of ANC ranks,
1119
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:25.872 line:15%
that\'s got a visiting card which says,
1120
00:54:25.872 --> 00:54:29.250 line:15%
I have the ear of the Soviet minister,
1121
00:54:29.250 --> 00:54:30.940 line:15%
or I have a close connection to XY,
1122
00:54:30.940 --> 00:54:33.280
I can swing the tender contract,
1123
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:35.630
which gives them a few shares or,
1124
00:54:35.630 --> 00:54:36.787
you know,
1125
00:54:36.787 --> 00:54:38.700
a seat around the boardroom table itself.
1126
00:54:38.700 --> 00:54:40.790
But the black person in the boardroom
1127
00:54:40.790 --> 00:54:41.850
doesn\'t change the boardroom.
1128
00:54:41.850 --> 00:54:44.200
The boardroom tends to change the aspirations,
1129
00:54:44.200 --> 00:54:47.580
character and outlook of the black person.
1130
00:54:47.580 --> 00:54:51.730
And so we\'ve seen a whole series of corruption cases
1131
00:54:51.730 --> 00:54:53.220
involving not just the new black elite
1132
00:54:53.220 --> 00:54:54.460
but the old white elite as well
1133
00:54:54.460 --> 00:54:57.090
working hand in glove with each other.
1134
00:54:57.090 --> 00:54:58.910
1135
00:54:58.910 --> 00:55:00.900
is that so few have made it
1136
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.550
that they sent out like a shortcut.
1137
00:55:04.410 --> 00:55:09.200
And some of them have arrogantly aped
1138
00:55:09.200 --> 00:55:11.270 line:15%
the worst parts of capitalism
1139
00:55:12.220 --> 00:55:15.220 line:15%
and boast about their cognac drinking
1140
00:55:15.220 --> 00:55:16.973
and smoking Cuban cigars.
1141
00:55:18.540 --> 00:55:20.200
1142
00:55:20.200 --> 00:55:22.223
of the entrepreneurial African.
1143
00:55:23.090 --> 00:55:28.090
It hasn\'t become a mess program of integrating Africans
1144
00:55:28.990 --> 00:55:29.903
into the festival.
1145
00:55:31.673 --> 00:55:34.940
BEE has less basically.
1146
00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:39.543
That\'s where South Africans have positioned that term right.
1147
00:55:41.540 --> 00:55:43.620
When you walk around in expensive shoes
1148
00:55:43.620 --> 00:55:45.050
and have hold forth,
1149
00:55:45.050 --> 00:55:48.710
cell phones in your hands and drive an expensive car
1150
00:55:48.710 --> 00:55:50.130
that you haven\'t paid for.
1151
00:55:50.130 --> 00:55:50.963
That\'s BEE.
1152
00:55:52.820 --> 00:55:55.279
That\'s how our people understand it.
1153
00:55:55.279 --> 00:55:56.900
(slow paced string instrument music)
1154
00:55:56.900 --> 00:55:58.520
1155
00:55:58.520 --> 00:56:02.310
the inequalities that the ANC promised to abolish
1156
00:56:02.310 --> 00:56:03.483
were now flaunted.
1157
00:56:05.730 --> 00:56:06.970
Even worse,
1158
00:56:06.970 --> 00:56:09.930
many of the newly privatized state assets,
1159
00:56:09.930 --> 00:56:12.150
like Telkom were benefiting
1160
00:56:12.150 --> 00:56:14.353
the inner circle of the presidency.
1161
00:56:16.270 --> 00:56:18.687
(protesting)
1162
00:56:24.554 --> 00:56:27.850
There was growing unease that those in power
1163
00:56:27.850 --> 00:56:30.610
were more concerned about winning tenders
1164
00:56:30.610 --> 00:56:33.110
than making basic social services
1165
00:56:33.110 --> 00:56:34.210
available to the poor.
1166
00:56:35.076 --> 00:56:39.076
(people protesting and singing)
1167
00:56:41.780 --> 00:56:45.863
(speaking in a foreign language)
1168
00:56:53.670 --> 00:56:56.130
1169
00:56:56.130 --> 00:56:57.130
by their intentions.
1170
00:56:57.970 --> 00:57:01.040
I think politics is about delivering to the people.
1171
00:57:01.040 --> 00:57:03.400
And you should be judged by the outcomes
1172
00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:05.183
and to hell with your intentions.
1173
00:57:06.580 --> 00:57:09.480
1174
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:13.290
See even this new state hasn\'t done anything for me.
1175
00:57:13.290 --> 00:57:15.673 line:15%
I\'m still as poor as I was in 1993.
1176
00:57:16.830 --> 00:57:19.960
(people yelling)
1177
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:23.750
Transformation should be less concerned
1178
00:57:23.750 --> 00:57:27.590
with the welfare of our erstwhile former
1179
00:57:27.590 --> 00:57:29.740
oppressors and enemies.
1180
00:57:29.740 --> 00:57:31.010
It should be more focused
1181
00:57:31.010 --> 00:57:36.010
on dealing with what ultimately could become the future
1182
00:57:36.040 --> 00:57:37.510
downfall of South Africa,
1183
00:57:37.510 --> 00:57:40.120
which is poverty amongst our people.
1184
00:57:40.120 --> 00:57:42.310
The slower we are in dealing with poverty
1185
00:57:42.310 --> 00:57:43.630
amongst our people,
1186
00:57:43.630 --> 00:57:46.740
the greater we raise the bar of danger,
1187
00:57:46.740 --> 00:57:47.760
the more heated,
1188
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:49.570
our society becomes,
1189
00:57:49.570 --> 00:57:52.163
with the potential ultimately to explode.
1190
00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:56.900
If you leave them in poverty like that
1191
00:57:56.900 --> 00:57:59.800
you then get what you see in some of our townships.
1192
00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:01.620
Mamelodi exploded.
1193
00:58:01.620 --> 00:58:03.000
Tires again on the streets,
1194
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.810
stones flying against the authorities.
1195
00:58:05.810 --> 00:58:07.330
Khutsong exploded.
1196
00:58:07.330 --> 00:58:10.310
So there have been spots of little explosions like that,
1197
00:58:10.310 --> 00:58:13.450
which is a message our people are conveying to say,
1198
00:58:13.450 --> 00:58:17.203
we are tired of being patient.
1199
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:24.530
1200
00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:27.100
where unrest have been brewing for years,
1201
00:58:27.100 --> 00:58:30.000
over non delivery of basic services.
1202
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.710
An unrelated administrative decision suddenly triggered
1203
00:58:33.710 --> 00:58:36.493
violence reminiscent of the 1980s.
1204
00:58:37.430 --> 00:58:42.430
The ANC sent in its Chairman to quell the anti ANC protests.
1205
00:58:43.670 --> 00:58:46.690
Terror Lekota was a prominent struggle hero
1206
00:58:46.690 --> 00:58:50.333
during the period of ungovernability in the 80\'s.
1207
00:58:51.470 --> 00:58:54.060
But this former militant was no longer
1208
00:58:54.060 --> 00:58:55.210
on the same wavelength.
1209
00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.730 line:15%
1210
00:59:06.730 --> 00:59:08.260 line:15%
But it clearly is not going to happen.
1211
00:59:08.260 --> 00:59:11.390 line:15%
You can see that the people around,
1212
00:59:11.390 --> 00:59:14.550
and I think that people are afraid to come inside.
1213
00:59:14.550 --> 00:59:17.650
So I\'ve decided that no we must wait.
1214
00:59:17.650 --> 00:59:19.910
Because you know some of the people are drunk
1215
00:59:20.850 --> 00:59:23.265
and some of the people,
1216
00:59:23.265 --> 00:59:25.570
you can\'t deal with them.
1217
00:59:25.570 --> 00:59:27.380
There are unruly elements as well
1218
00:59:27.380 --> 00:59:29.070
so you don\'t want the situation with the policeman
1219
00:59:29.070 --> 00:59:31.683
to be forced to act against these people.
1220
00:59:34.610 --> 00:59:37.460
I\'m sure we will resolve the issue in time
1221
00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:39.860
but how long a time it is I am not sure.
1222
00:59:40.981 --> 00:59:42.627
(people yelling)
1223
00:59:42.627 --> 00:59:45.090
1224
00:59:45.090 --> 00:59:47.060
and he says the government has decided
1225
00:59:47.060 --> 00:59:49.090 line:15%
and they say excuse me,
1226
00:59:49.090 --> 00:59:51.643 line:15%
there\'s no government that decides over our heads.
1227
00:59:53.070 --> 00:59:55.180 line:15%
We are saying as this community,
1228
00:59:55.180 --> 00:59:56.230
this is what we want.
1229
00:59:56.230 --> 00:59:59.800
No government is going to tell us that it has decided,
1230
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:01.050
our fate,
1231
01:00:01.050 --> 01:00:01.983
without us.
1232
01:00:03.660 --> 01:00:05.630
The day you sit with us.
1233
01:00:05.630 --> 01:00:07.120
You listen to us,
1234
01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:08.160
we will support you.
1235
01:00:08.160 --> 01:00:09.993
For now, you march.
1236
01:00:11.050 --> 01:00:12.140
You leave Khutsong.
1237
01:00:12.140 --> 01:00:13.190
That\'s what they did.
1238
01:00:15.060 --> 01:00:18.065
They expelled him from Khutsong.
1239
01:00:18.065 --> 01:00:21.982
(people yelling and whistling)
1240
01:00:35.673 --> 01:00:37.270 line:15%
1241
01:00:37.270 --> 01:00:39.090 line:15%
It\'s as simple as that.
1242
01:00:39.090 --> 01:00:41.640
It\'s their Khutsong not anybody else\'s.
1243
01:00:41.640 --> 01:00:42.580
They want Khutsong,
1244
01:00:42.580 --> 01:00:44.050
they want the rubbish to be collected,
1245
01:00:44.050 --> 01:00:46.020
they want proper water they want sewage.
1246
01:00:46.020 --> 01:00:48.300
They want electricity they want decent houses.
1247
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:49.553
What is wrong with that?
1248
01:00:50.499 --> 01:00:53.082
(string music)
1249
01:01:03.870 --> 01:01:06.017
1250
01:01:06.017 --> 01:01:07.067
of liberation per se.
1251
01:01:08.610 --> 01:01:09.900
Freedom of expression,
1252
01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:11.060
freedom of the press,
1253
01:01:11.060 --> 01:01:14.420
freedom of association etc etc.
1254
01:01:14.420 --> 01:01:15.580
Those are ephemeral,
1255
01:01:15.580 --> 01:01:16.850
and people will tell you,
1256
01:01:16.850 --> 01:01:18.243
I can\'t eat freedom.
1257
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:20.963
I need a job.
1258
01:01:22.213 --> 01:01:24.963
(cultural music)
1259
01:01:32.614 --> 01:01:36.187
(people cheering)
1260
01:01:36.187 --> 01:01:41.187
(singing and chanting in foreign language)
1261
01:01:41.630 --> 01:01:43.820
1262
01:01:43.820 --> 01:01:46.263
and pockets of dissatisfaction were growing.
1263
01:01:47.300 --> 01:01:49.140
After three years in power,
1264
01:01:49.140 --> 01:01:52.260
Mandela\'s government had succeeded in bringing about
1265
01:01:52.260 --> 01:01:54.843
reconciliation and peaceful change.
1266
01:01:59.373 --> 01:02:00.340
Thabo Mbeki,
1267
01:02:00.340 --> 01:02:02.540
who had been virtually running the country
1268
01:02:02.540 --> 01:02:05.589
during Mandela\'s presidency was now in the hot seat.
1269
01:02:05.589 --> 01:02:09.422
(singing in foreign language)
1270
01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:18.440
At the second national conference inside the country,
1271
01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:20.000
held in Mafokeng.
1272
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:23.053
He was finally voted into the ANC\'s top job.
1273
01:02:25.890 --> 01:02:26.920 line:15%
1274
01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:28.600 line:15%
who was president of the ANC
1275
01:02:28.600 --> 01:02:33.000 line:15%
and President of the Republic and very popular,
1276
01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:35.100
voluntarily stepped down from the position
1277
01:02:36.455 --> 01:02:38.373
and handed it over to comrade Thabo.
1278
01:02:42.295 --> 01:02:44.860
But Nelson Mandela issued a word of caution
1279
01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:46.703
in his closing remarks to conference.
1280
01:02:46.703 --> 01:02:51.363
1281
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:56.083
that run his organizations together.
1282
01:02:57.050 --> 01:03:02.050
But you can\'t do that unless you allow dissent.
1283
01:03:03.210 --> 01:03:06.710
1284
01:03:06.710 --> 01:03:10.420
the temptation for a leader
1285
01:03:10.420 --> 01:03:14.000
who is left unopposed is,
1286
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.610
for that leader to use that power
1287
01:03:17.610 --> 01:03:21.840
to marginalize and isolate
1288
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:24.443
those who may differ with him.
1289
01:03:25.510 --> 01:03:29.591
And to surround himself with yes men and yes women.
1290
01:03:29.591 --> 01:03:32.091
1291
01:03:33.810 --> 01:03:38.810
as long as both do not put the organization in disrepute.
1292
01:03:41.303 --> 01:03:43.240
(applause)
1293
01:03:43.240 --> 01:03:45.300 line:15%
1294
01:03:45.300 --> 01:03:47.360 line:15%
sitting there who were on the edges of their chair
1295
01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:49.170 line:15%
listening to this and applauding.
1296
01:03:49.170 --> 01:03:51.610
The thing that it wasn\'t just a generalized abstract
1297
01:03:51.610 --> 01:03:52.443
statement,
1298
01:03:52.443 --> 01:03:55.630
it was very pointed at the new appointee
1299
01:03:55.630 --> 01:03:56.730
that he was anointing.
1300
01:03:59.890 --> 01:04:03.780
1301
01:04:03.780 --> 01:04:06.390
some bad things about you,
1302
01:04:06.390 --> 01:04:09.610
members of the press have been asking me.
1303
01:04:09.610 --> 01:04:13.840
How does it feel to get into your shoes?
1304
01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:15.070
And I\'ve been saying to them
1305
01:04:15.070 --> 01:04:18.020
I would never ever be seen dead in your shoes
1306
01:04:18.020 --> 01:04:20.273
because you always wear ugly shoes.
1307
01:04:24.220 --> 01:04:26.987
1308
01:04:26.987 --> 01:04:31.688 line:15%
being the next President of the ANC after Mandela.
1309
01:04:31.688 --> 01:04:34.670
but there had been a niggling suspicion
1310
01:04:34.670 --> 01:04:38.050
in many people\'s minds that Thabo
1311
01:04:39.250 --> 01:04:42.110
possessed this capacity,
1312
01:04:42.110 --> 01:04:46.540
not to do the things that Mandela was saying
1313
01:04:46.540 --> 01:04:48.350
should be the attributes of a leader.
1314
01:04:48.350 --> 01:04:49.930
1315
01:04:49.930 --> 01:04:52.754
that comrade Jacob Zuma is Deputy President.
1316
01:04:52.754 --> 01:04:55.004
(applause)
1317
01:04:57.662 --> 01:04:58.495
1318
01:04:58.495 --> 01:05:00.710 line:15%
and you elected the Deputy you are in essence
1319
01:05:00.710 --> 01:05:02.460 line:15%
saying to the next conference,
1320
01:05:02.460 --> 01:05:05.300 line:15%
here\'s your candidate for the presidency
1321
01:05:05.300 --> 01:05:06.960
at the next conference.
1322
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:08.480
At Mafokeng,
1323
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:10.973
when Zuma was put in as deputy,
1324
01:05:12.110 --> 01:05:14.353
Mafokeng was saying to Polokwane,
1325
01:05:15.460 --> 01:05:16.760
that\'s the next president.
1326
01:05:18.141 --> 01:05:20.718
(upbeat string music)
1327
01:05:20.718 --> 01:05:22.360
1328
01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:25.343
had worked closely since their days in Swaziland.
1329
01:05:26.570 --> 01:05:29.130
As a team they would lead transformation
1330
01:05:29.130 --> 01:05:31.413
at this critical moment of transition.
1331
01:05:33.620 --> 01:05:37.910
1332
01:05:37.910 --> 01:05:40.360
1333
01:05:40.360 --> 01:05:42.450
had detailed his broader vision
1334
01:05:42.450 --> 01:05:44.623
in a moving speech in Parliament.
1335
01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:48.130
1336
01:05:48.130 --> 01:05:50.873
I am born of the peoples of the continent of Africa.
1337
01:05:51.980 --> 01:05:53.300
The pain,
1338
01:05:53.300 --> 01:05:55.580
or the violent conflict that the peoples
1339
01:05:55.580 --> 01:05:57.940
of Liberia and of Somalia,
1340
01:05:57.940 --> 01:06:01.730
of the Sudan of Rwanda and Algeria,
1341
01:06:01.730 --> 01:06:03.463
is a pain I also bear.
1342
01:06:04.620 --> 01:06:06.393
Whatever the difficulties.
1343
01:06:07.370 --> 01:06:09.333
Africa shall be at peace.
1344
01:06:11.190 --> 01:06:15.400
However improbable it may sound to the skeptics,
1345
01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:16.593
Africa will prosper.
1346
01:06:19.290 --> 01:06:21.930
1347
01:06:21.930 --> 01:06:23.993
captured the country\'s imagination.
1348
01:06:27.050 --> 01:06:29.700
South Africa would play a leading role
1349
01:06:29.700 --> 01:06:32.330
in solving problems on the continent.
1350
01:06:32.330 --> 01:06:34.950
1351
01:06:34.950 --> 01:06:36.618
it is taking today.
1352
01:06:36.618 --> 01:06:38.540
1353
01:06:38.540 --> 01:06:41.350
about reconstruction of Africa.
1354
01:06:41.350 --> 01:06:43.230
Under the word Renaissance.
1355
01:06:43.230 --> 01:06:46.760
The renewal of Africa is what Renaissance was about,
1356
01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:48.720 line:15%
and placing South Africa,
1357
01:06:48.720 --> 01:06:50.150 line:15%
not as an outpost to Europe,
1358
01:06:50.150 --> 01:06:51.100 line:15%
which it was under,
1359
01:06:51.962 --> 01:06:52.795 line:15%
under apartheid.
1360
01:06:52.795 --> 01:06:55.114
But really as part of Africa.
1361
01:06:55.114 --> 01:06:56.157
That is the important thing.
1362
01:06:56.157 --> 01:07:01.157
And our future destinies lay in African transformation.
1363
01:07:01.890 --> 01:07:03.840
South Africa is taking the lead
1364
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:07.370
in assisting in the peace processes in Africa,
1365
01:07:07.370 --> 01:07:10.060
because you can\'t have Renaissance
1366
01:07:10.060 --> 01:07:12.990
or renewal as long as you have silver walls
1367
01:07:12.990 --> 01:07:14.313
and violence and all that.
1368
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:18.030
(cultural music)
1369
01:07:26.630 --> 01:07:28.540
1370
01:07:28.540 --> 01:07:30.450
in various African conflicts,
1371
01:07:30.450 --> 01:07:32.670
South Africa would have to invest
1372
01:07:32.670 --> 01:07:35.070
in rebuilding its military.
1373
01:07:35.070 --> 01:07:37.332
This decision would become the poison well
1374
01:07:37.332 --> 01:07:39.853
of South African politics.
1375
01:07:41.210 --> 01:07:42.680 line:15%
1376
01:07:44.310 --> 01:07:46.750 line:15%
whether you have a defense force
1377
01:07:46.750 --> 01:07:48.290 line:15%
or you don\'t have.
1378
01:07:48.290 --> 01:07:50.260
That really was simply that.
1379
01:07:50.260 --> 01:07:53.350
The Constitution requires that we maintain
1380
01:07:53.350 --> 01:07:56.660
a defense force of sufficient capacity etc etc.
1381
01:07:56.660 --> 01:07:58.960
to be able to defend the country.
1382
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:03.960
At this point the Navy was about to close down.
1383
01:08:04.230 --> 01:08:05.063
They had no ships,
1384
01:08:05.063 --> 01:08:06.610
we don\'t have sailors,
1385
01:08:06.610 --> 01:08:08.070
with no boats.
1386
01:08:08.070 --> 01:08:10.730
So any of us that of course won\'t have a defense force.
1387
01:08:10.730 --> 01:08:11.663
So let\'s equip it.
1388
01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:15.110
1389
01:08:15.110 --> 01:08:17.210 line:15%
in terms of sail our ships
1390
01:08:17.210 --> 01:08:19.900 line:15%
that this would project the flag,
1391
01:08:19.900 --> 01:08:23.210 line:15%
the South African flag throughout the continent.
1392
01:08:23.210 --> 01:08:25.340
Where the visit of your ships
1393
01:08:25.340 --> 01:08:28.460
becomes very important diplomatically.
1394
01:08:28.460 --> 01:08:31.110
So of course that was part and parcel
1395
01:08:31.110 --> 01:08:33.560
of Africa\'s Renaissance.
1396
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:35.870
If you\'re going to be taken seriously,
1397
01:08:35.870 --> 01:08:39.580
particularly given Africa\'s problems,
1398
01:08:39.580 --> 01:08:40.780
weaknesses,
1399
01:08:40.780 --> 01:08:42.750
the conflict in Africa,
1400
01:08:42.750 --> 01:08:44.640
conflict resolution.
1401
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:46.980
If South Africa is going to play a role.
1402
01:08:46.980 --> 01:08:50.210
South Africa needs to have the muscle.
1403
01:08:50.210 --> 01:08:52.940
1404
01:08:52.940 --> 01:08:55.703
that are taking place as peacekeepers.
1405
01:08:56.730 --> 01:08:59.120
We have said to the world.
1406
01:08:59.120 --> 01:09:00.590 line:15%
Stay out of our problems,
1407
01:09:00.590 --> 01:09:02.483 line:15%
let us solve our own problems.
1408
01:09:03.410 --> 01:09:05.434 line:15%
So they say okay,
1409
01:09:05.434 --> 01:09:06.267 line:15%
you want to solve your own problems?
1410
01:09:06.267 --> 01:09:07.293
Send your troops.
1411
01:09:08.150 --> 01:09:09.883
See you can\'t then turn around
1412
01:09:09.883 --> 01:09:11.757
and say but I haven\'t got troops.
1413
01:09:11.757 --> 01:09:13.710
You\'ve got to send your troops.
1414
01:09:13.710 --> 01:09:18.010 line:15%
1415
01:09:18.010 --> 01:09:19.740 line:15%
in our region.
1416
01:09:19.740 --> 01:09:22.230
We must have a national defense force
1417
01:09:22.230 --> 01:09:25.330 line:15%
that can be ready for any eventuality.
1418
01:09:25.330 --> 01:09:28.110 line:15%
1419
01:09:28.970 --> 01:09:32.363 line:15%
of instituting a full scale defense review.
1420
01:09:33.320 --> 01:09:35.644 line:15%
This will enable Parliament-
1421
01:09:35.644 --> 01:09:38.120
1422
01:09:38.120 --> 01:09:40.360
a Defense Acquisition package
1423
01:09:40.360 --> 01:09:44.083
worth 30 billion Rands over a 12 year period.
1424
01:09:44.920 --> 01:09:47.460
The purchase was approved.
1425
01:09:47.460 --> 01:09:50.220
But soon enough controversy over aspects
1426
01:09:50.220 --> 01:09:52.133
of the arms deal started brewing.
1427
01:09:53.360 --> 01:09:54.600
1428
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:56.952
at the time and the decision was taken
1429
01:09:56.952 --> 01:09:58.550
to embark on an arms deal.
1430
01:09:58.550 --> 01:10:01.610 line:15%
The first was that we were in the middle
1431
01:10:01.610 --> 01:10:04.990 line:15%
of the fiscal austerity that characterized GEAR.
1432
01:10:04.990 --> 01:10:06.930
The second was that Thabo Mbeki
1433
01:10:06.930 --> 01:10:08.924
was telling the South African people
1434
01:10:08.924 --> 01:10:11.550
that because of that fiscal austerity,
1435
01:10:11.550 --> 01:10:14.219
we couldn\'t afford to provide antiretroviral drugs
1436
01:10:14.219 --> 01:10:16.370
to the millions of South Africans
1437
01:10:16.370 --> 01:10:18.140
who were HIV positive.
1438
01:10:18.140 --> 01:10:21.660
But at the same time as they were saying these two things.
1439
01:10:21.660 --> 01:10:23.755
We were about to spend.
1440
01:10:23.755 --> 01:10:28.755
What would eventually become about five billion Pounds
1441
01:10:29.580 --> 01:10:31.770
on arms and weapons.
1442
01:10:31.770 --> 01:10:34.470
1443
01:10:34.470 --> 01:10:36.623 line:15%
That was wholly inappropriate spending.
1444
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:40.300 line:15%
This whole arms deal thing.
1445
01:10:40.300 --> 01:10:43.660
We\'re not facing a threat of an invasion.
1446
01:10:43.660 --> 01:10:44.950
1447
01:10:44.950 --> 01:10:46.970
if you didn\'t buy the submarine today,
1448
01:10:46.970 --> 01:10:49.230
the current one is finished.
1449
01:10:49.230 --> 01:10:51.640
But then if you didn\'t buy the frigates,
1450
01:10:51.640 --> 01:10:52.640
you were in another trouble.
1451
01:10:52.640 --> 01:10:54.680
And if you didn\'t buy a helicopter that went
1452
01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:57.920
to it then what was the point of an aircraft carrier?
1453
01:10:57.920 --> 01:10:59.639
And there you have it.
1454
01:10:59.639 --> 01:11:00.970
You were caught up in a spiral
1455
01:11:00.970 --> 01:11:03.610
of the shopping list growing,
1456
01:11:03.610 --> 01:11:04.930
the costs growing,
1457
01:11:04.930 --> 01:11:07.380
and then you were told don\'t worry,
1458
01:11:07.380 --> 01:11:09.060
we will spend so much,
1459
01:11:09.060 --> 01:11:11.370
but offsets will bring in so much
1460
01:11:11.370 --> 01:11:13.043
it will create so many new jobs.
1461
01:11:16.360 --> 01:11:17.360
Where\'s the offsets?
1462
01:11:18.468 --> 01:11:21.000
(marching band music)
1463
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:23.400
1464
01:11:24.322 --> 01:11:27.410
commitment to invest up to 110 billion Rands
1465
01:11:27.410 --> 01:11:30.000
and generate 65000 jobs,
1466
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:32.100
inside South Africa.
1467
01:11:32.100 --> 01:11:33.993
Those hardly materialized.
1468
01:11:37.380 --> 01:11:38.240
Instead,
1469
01:11:38.240 --> 01:11:40.147
accusations of irregularities
1470
01:11:40.147 --> 01:11:42.910
in the tender process of the arms deal
1471
01:11:42.910 --> 01:11:43.823
began circulating.
1472
01:11:47.140 --> 01:11:49.150
1473
01:11:49.150 --> 01:11:52.370
was for for frigate ships.
1474
01:11:52.370 --> 01:11:57.278 line:15%
The technical committee felt that the only bidder
1475
01:11:57.278 --> 01:11:59.370 line:15%
who met the technical requirements
1476
01:11:59.370 --> 01:12:01.233
of the Navy was a Spanish company.
1477
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:04.660
So the arms acquisition council felt
1478
01:12:04.660 --> 01:12:07.000
that\'s who the tender should go to.
1479
01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:09.660 line:15%
1480
01:12:09.660 --> 01:12:11.803 line:15%
with probably the best ships
1481
01:12:11.803 --> 01:12:13.580 line:15%
at a very nice price
1482
01:12:15.870 --> 01:12:19.283
and Mbeki at a certain point,
1483
01:12:20.200 --> 01:12:21.470
said to me,
1484
01:12:21.470 --> 01:12:22.303
you know,
1485
01:12:22.303 --> 01:12:23.430
Ronnie I\'m not sure
1486
01:12:23.430 --> 01:12:26.890
that we should be going about this in this way.
1487
01:12:26.890 --> 01:12:30.830
We can\'t simply look at these tenders.
1488
01:12:30.830 --> 01:12:34.770
In terms of specifications of the equipment.
1489
01:12:34.770 --> 01:12:36.730
And with that then it\'s everything
1490
01:12:36.730 --> 01:12:38.590
from cost to the way they function
1491
01:12:38.590 --> 01:12:39.700
and so on.
1492
01:12:39.700 --> 01:12:41.770
But we must take into account
1493
01:12:41.770 --> 01:12:44.340
the strategic objective.
1494
01:12:44.340 --> 01:12:47.470
The strategic value of which country
1495
01:12:47.470 --> 01:12:48.843
you get into partnership
1496
01:12:48.843 --> 01:12:51.320
is extremely important.
1497
01:12:51.320 --> 01:12:54.750
And that\'s Mbeki\'s advice.
1498
01:12:54.750 --> 01:12:58.031
1499
01:12:58.031 --> 01:12:59.200
in which he went to Hamburg,
1500
01:12:59.200 --> 01:13:02.490
home of the German Frigate Consortium.
1501
01:13:02.490 --> 01:13:04.910
He comes back to South Africa
1502
01:13:04.910 --> 01:13:09.820
and instructs the officials to reopen the tender
1503
01:13:09.820 --> 01:13:11.783
into the frigate contract.
1504
01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:14.320
Surprise surprise.
1505
01:13:14.320 --> 01:13:15.773
A few months later,
1506
01:13:16.750 --> 01:13:18.517
the German frigate Consortium,
1507
01:13:18.517 --> 01:13:21.800
who had been dismissed by the technical committee,
1508
01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:24.333
win the contract to build the frigates.
1509
01:13:26.060 --> 01:13:27.730
1510
01:13:27.730 --> 01:13:30.080
the cost of the weapons ballooned
1511
01:13:30.080 --> 01:13:32.773
and rumors of financial impropriety spread.
1512
01:13:38.330 --> 01:13:40.530 line:15%
1513
01:13:40.530 --> 01:13:43.020 line:15%
has now increased to 53 billion,
1514
01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:45.250 line:15%
and the jobs from co has evaporated
1515
01:13:45.250 --> 01:13:47.290 line:15%
into a condom factory.
1516
01:13:47.290 --> 01:13:48.400
1517
01:13:48.400 --> 01:13:51.980
in Parliament demanded a multi agency pro.
1518
01:13:51.980 --> 01:13:52.940 line:15%
1519
01:13:52.940 --> 01:13:54.880 line:15%
by senior officials in government.
1520
01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:56.670 line:15%
This report should have been prioritized
1521
01:13:56.670 --> 01:13:57.503 line:15%
by Parliament.
1522
01:13:57.503 --> 01:13:59.517
1523
01:13:59.517 --> 01:14:00.350
in the police report to-
1524
01:14:00.350 --> 01:14:01.183
1525
01:14:01.183 --> 01:14:04.740
an ANC Member of Parliament is handed the dossier.
1526
01:14:04.740 --> 01:14:06.220
1527
01:14:06.220 --> 01:14:07.820
of conflicts of interest.
1528
01:14:07.820 --> 01:14:09.100
1529
01:14:09.100 --> 01:14:11.963
starts the obstacles multiply.
1530
01:14:13.010 --> 01:14:14.670
1531
01:14:14.670 --> 01:14:16.810
I was called to the house of a senior member
1532
01:14:16.810 --> 01:14:19.080
of the ANC\'s National Executive Committee.
1533
01:14:19.080 --> 01:14:19.950
And he said to me,
1534
01:14:19.950 --> 01:14:21.333
Andrew,
1535
01:14:21.333 --> 01:14:23.300
I want you to understand something.
1536
01:14:23.300 --> 01:14:26.000
This is going to be the end of your political career.
1537
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:27.713
You cannot win this thing.
1538
01:14:28.590 --> 01:14:29.423
And I said to him,
1539
01:14:29.423 --> 01:14:31.060
What do you mean I cannot win this thing?
1540
01:14:31.060 --> 01:14:32.070
He said,
1541
01:14:32.070 --> 01:14:33.720
You\'ve got to understand,
1542
01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:36.810
the ANC received money from the successful bidders
1543
01:14:36.810 --> 01:14:38.170
in the arms contract.
1544
01:14:38.170 --> 01:14:41.410
That\'s how we funded the 1999 election campaign,
1545
01:14:41.410 --> 01:14:44.400
and the movement will close ranks
1546
01:14:44.400 --> 01:14:45.620
because of that.
1547
01:14:45.620 --> 01:14:48.330
Because they do not want this whole can of worms
1548
01:14:48.330 --> 01:14:49.183
to be opened.
1549
01:14:52.270 --> 01:14:55.000
1550
01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:57.180
It contained no conclusive evidence
1551
01:14:57.180 --> 01:14:58.063
of wrongdoing.
1552
01:15:02.040 --> 01:15:03.080
Nevertheless,
1553
01:15:03.080 --> 01:15:06.140
disturbing questions about the tender process
1554
01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:07.910
remained unanswered.
1555
01:15:07.910 --> 01:15:10.040
One thing was certain.
1556
01:15:10.040 --> 01:15:12.690
the lucrative subsidiary contract
1557
01:15:12.690 --> 01:15:14.585
had been awarded to a small group
1558
01:15:14.585 --> 01:15:17.913
intimately linked to the ANC\'s ruling elite.
1559
01:15:21.200 --> 01:15:23.523 line:15%
1560
01:15:24.991 --> 01:15:27.577 line:15%
The first opportunity where the ANC
1561
01:15:28.700 --> 01:15:31.940
as an ethical political organization fails.
1562
01:15:31.940 --> 01:15:35.330
It\'s around the question of the arms deal.
1563
01:15:35.330 --> 01:15:38.750
We see suddenly that in fact power corrupts,
1564
01:15:38.750 --> 01:15:42.280
even the most ethical organizations.
1565
01:15:42.280 --> 01:15:46.987
The world of armament is a shady violent
1566
01:15:47.970 --> 01:15:51.023
brutal criminal and corrupt world.
1567
01:15:52.120 --> 01:15:54.650
And the first thing you want to do
1568
01:15:54.650 --> 01:15:56.950
as a liberation movement coming to power
1569
01:15:56.950 --> 01:16:00.673
is certainly not to engage with that kind of world.
1570
01:16:02.970 --> 01:16:04.850
1571
01:16:04.850 --> 01:16:06.550
promising transparency
1572
01:16:06.550 --> 01:16:08.323
and the eradication of corruption.
1573
01:16:09.200 --> 01:16:11.240
The arms deal would become a test
1574
01:16:11.240 --> 01:16:12.283
of its resolve.
1575
01:16:13.380 --> 01:16:14.440
After all,
1576
01:16:14.440 --> 01:16:16.830
the allegations of bribery and nepotism
1577
01:16:16.830 --> 01:16:19.253
involved not only its own officials,
1578
01:16:20.170 --> 01:16:22.993
but also some of its former struggle heroes.
1579
01:16:24.060 --> 01:16:27.160
1580
01:16:27.160 --> 01:16:28.810
a governing party in 1994
1581
01:16:30.030 --> 01:16:35.030
started to experience problems of the corrosion
1582
01:16:36.090 --> 01:16:39.220
of the noble goals,
1583
01:16:39.220 --> 01:16:42.420 line:15%
because those of its members
1584
01:16:42.420 --> 01:16:45.353 line:15%
who occupied positions of influence and responsibility,
1585
01:16:46.770 --> 01:16:48.793
were to be feted and,
1586
01:16:49.630 --> 01:16:50.463
you know,
1587
01:16:51.391 --> 01:16:52.340
they dined
1588
01:16:52.340 --> 01:16:55.650
and wined by those who owned
1589
01:16:55.650 --> 01:16:57.150
and controlled resources
1590
01:16:58.930 --> 01:17:02.100
and they became slowly indebted.
1591
01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:03.350
Here is the ANC.
1592
01:17:03.350 --> 01:17:05.240
It is leading the process of transformation
1593
01:17:05.240 --> 01:17:06.290
in the country,
1594
01:17:06.290 --> 01:17:08.681
but it is itself been slowly
1595
01:17:08.681 --> 01:17:10.823
and silently transformed.
1596
01:17:11.770 --> 01:17:14.349
1597
01:17:14.349 --> 01:17:16.380 line:15%
with in this 14 years of our liberation
1598
01:17:18.060 --> 01:17:22.967 line:15%
is abuse of membership of the ANC.
1599
01:17:24.310 --> 01:17:26.220
To access state power
1600
01:17:27.320 --> 01:17:29.223
for the purpose of self enrichment.
1601
01:17:30.410 --> 01:17:32.440
What is the easiest route
1602
01:17:32.440 --> 01:17:34.200
to accessing that wealth?
1603
01:17:34.200 --> 01:17:35.323
Join the ANC.
1604
01:17:36.160 --> 01:17:39.030
Get yourself elected to positions of authority.
1605
01:17:39.030 --> 01:17:40.800
That will get you into government.
1606
01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:43.150
And as government tenders,
1607
01:17:43.150 --> 01:17:44.140
contracts,
1608
01:17:44.140 --> 01:17:46.120
10% kickbacks all this.
1609
01:17:46.120 --> 01:17:48.450
So it\'s absolutely absolutely
1610
01:17:48.450 --> 01:17:52.600
critically important to avoid a situation
1611
01:17:53.660 --> 01:17:56.180
where membership of the ANC
1612
01:17:56.180 --> 01:18:00.693
becomes a vehicle to court a practice of that kind.
1613
01:18:03.055 --> 01:18:04.530
1614
01:18:04.530 --> 01:18:06.190
of anti corruption.
1615
01:18:06.190 --> 01:18:08.920
He stood accused of squashing allegations,
1616
01:18:08.920 --> 01:18:11.233
when they implicated his loyalists.
1617
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:18.110
But Jacob Zuma and Mbeki had drifted apart
1618
01:18:18.110 --> 01:18:21.163
and the Deputy President felt marginalized.
1619
01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:25.650 line:15%
1620
01:18:25.650 --> 01:18:26.620 line:15%
about the arms deal
1621
01:18:27.620 --> 01:18:28.853 line:15%
I never thought this was aimed at me
1622
01:18:28.853 --> 01:18:30.823 line:15%
because I was never party to that.
1623
01:18:32.540 --> 01:18:34.590
To be surprised I was being investigated.
1624
01:18:35.630 --> 01:18:37.070
But myself,
1625
01:18:37.070 --> 01:18:38.210
the government,
1626
01:18:38.210 --> 01:18:39.043
the ANC,
1627
01:18:39.043 --> 01:18:39.876
we all said well,
1628
01:18:39.876 --> 01:18:43.740
let us allow the due process of the law
1629
01:18:43.740 --> 01:18:45.123
to take its place.
1630
01:18:46.590 --> 01:18:47.450
I was expecting
1631
01:18:47.450 --> 01:18:51.143
that once the investigations are completed,
1632
01:18:53.670 --> 01:18:55.980
they will decide whether they charge me,
1633
01:18:55.980 --> 01:18:58.040
or they don\'t charge me.
1634
01:18:58.040 --> 01:18:59.160
Right.
1635
01:18:59.160 --> 01:19:00.133
So we waited.
1636
01:19:01.220 --> 01:19:03.020
1637
01:19:03.020 --> 01:19:06.900
or NPA which conducts criminal investigations
1638
01:19:06.900 --> 01:19:08.340
on behalf of the State
1639
01:19:08.340 --> 01:19:10.300
was examining the secondary contracts
1640
01:19:10.300 --> 01:19:11.313
of the arms deal.
1641
01:19:12.430 --> 01:19:14.990
It was not as much the investigation
1642
01:19:14.990 --> 01:19:16.220
as the public manner
1643
01:19:16.220 --> 01:19:18.200
in which the case was handled
1644
01:19:18.200 --> 01:19:20.763
that led to suspicions of political meddling.
1645
01:19:22.620 --> 01:19:25.280
The allegation that the country\'s deputy president
1646
01:19:25.280 --> 01:19:28.773
was involved in corruption opened a can of worms.
1647
01:19:30.400 --> 01:19:32.133
1648
01:19:33.039 --> 01:19:34.210
Bulelani Ngcuka,
1649
01:19:34.210 --> 01:19:35.450
the head of NPA
1650
01:19:35.450 --> 01:19:36.883
calls the press conference.
1651
01:19:37.870 --> 01:19:39.800
And he says we can\'t charge him
1652
01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:42.050
because it\'s unwinnable in court.
1653
01:19:42.050 --> 01:19:46.140
1654
01:19:46.140 --> 01:19:47.540
that this witness testimony.
1655
01:19:48.895 --> 01:19:50.080
Our case,
1656
01:19:50.080 --> 01:19:52.570
in so far as it relates to the Deputy President
1657
01:19:53.550 --> 01:19:55.993
relies largely on circumstantial evidence.
1658
01:19:58.420 --> 01:19:59.670
1659
01:19:59.670 --> 01:20:00.870
and tell the press that?
1660
01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:04.220
Because if he has investigated.
1661
01:20:04.220 --> 01:20:06.350
There is no case to be won in court.
1662
01:20:06.350 --> 01:20:08.160
He should have said I\'ve done investigation,
1663
01:20:08.160 --> 01:20:09.559
I\'ve concluded it.
1664
01:20:09.559 --> 01:20:11.510
There are no charges against Zuma simple.
1665
01:20:11.510 --> 01:20:12.990 line:15%
1666
01:20:12.990 --> 01:20:13.823 line:15%
really,
1667
01:20:16.182 --> 01:20:18.910 line:15%
for all of us that the investigators
1668
01:20:18.910 --> 01:20:21.350
have come to the conclusion
1669
01:20:21.350 --> 01:20:22.310
that they came to.
1670
01:20:22.310 --> 01:20:24.610
Namely that the deputy president
1671
01:20:24.610 --> 01:20:26.273
has a case to answer.
1672
01:20:27.210 --> 01:20:28.043
The fact is
1673
01:20:28.043 --> 01:20:29.830
he is not going to be prosecuted.
1674
01:20:29.830 --> 01:20:30.880
At least not for now.
1675
01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:32.553
1676
01:20:32.553 --> 01:20:34.100
don\'t say it.
1677
01:20:34.100 --> 01:20:35.860 line:15%
Why on earth that was ever said
1678
01:20:35.860 --> 01:20:36.830 line:15%
is hard to know
1679
01:20:36.830 --> 01:20:38.090 line:15%
but I suspect it was said
1680
01:20:38.956 --> 01:20:39.900 line:15%
because of political maneuvers
1681
01:20:39.900 --> 01:20:41.930
that were going on in the upper echelons
1682
01:20:41.930 --> 01:20:42.800
of the ANC.
1683
01:20:44.610 --> 01:20:45.820
That immediately put Zuma
1684
01:20:45.820 --> 01:20:47.240
in an impossible situation
1685
01:20:47.240 --> 01:20:50.430
because he was being portrayed as damaged goods,
1686
01:20:50.430 --> 01:20:51.480
but he wasn\'t going to be given
1687
01:20:51.480 --> 01:20:53.700
the opportunity to clear his name
1688
01:20:53.700 --> 01:20:54.830
and the right to a trial,
1689
01:20:54.830 --> 01:20:56.590
so an impossible position.
1690
01:20:56.590 --> 01:20:58.320
But it placed all of us,
1691
01:20:58.320 --> 01:20:59.620
the whole ANC,
1692
01:20:59.620 --> 01:21:01.020
in an impossible position
1693
01:21:01.020 --> 01:21:02.760
because here\'s our deputy president
1694
01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:04.430
of the ANC but also deputy president
1695
01:21:04.430 --> 01:21:05.820
of the country,
1696
01:21:05.820 --> 01:21:07.840
having to answer corruption charges
1697
01:21:07.840 --> 01:21:09.147
without having to answer them
1698
01:21:09.147 --> 01:21:10.730
and so impossible situation.
1699
01:21:10.730 --> 01:21:15.730
1700
01:21:17.097 --> 01:21:18.150 line:15%
1701
01:21:18.150 --> 01:21:19.770 line:15%
We didn\'t fight against apartheid
1702
01:21:19.770 --> 01:21:22.580 line:15%
in order also to have a apartheid type behavior
1703
01:21:22.580 --> 01:21:24.310
of smearing people,
1704
01:21:24.310 --> 01:21:26.030
of using institutions in a manner
1705
01:21:26.030 --> 01:21:28.600
that destroys people.
1706
01:21:28.600 --> 01:21:30.380
We cannot allow our criminal
1707
01:21:30.380 --> 01:21:31.610
just some of the institutions
1708
01:21:31.610 --> 01:21:33.540
of our criminal justice system
1709
01:21:33.540 --> 01:21:35.703
to be used in that way.
1710
01:21:36.690 --> 01:21:38.530
1711
01:21:38.530 --> 01:21:41.680
of receiving money from a French Arms Company.
1712
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:42.830
But there was no proof.
1713
01:21:44.545 --> 01:21:46.470
The NPA\'s declared commitment
1714
01:21:46.470 --> 01:21:48.210
to pursue the matter,
1715
01:21:48.210 --> 01:21:50.200
despite the lack of evidence
1716
01:21:50.200 --> 01:21:52.413
made Zuma supporters suspicious.
1717
01:21:53.670 --> 01:21:55.193
Conspiracy theorists claim
1718
01:21:55.193 --> 01:21:58.720
that Jacob Zuma was being intentionally discredited
1719
01:21:58.720 --> 01:22:00.290
from within the ANC
1720
01:22:00.290 --> 01:22:01.940
to eliminate his chances
1721
01:22:01.940 --> 01:22:03.653
as a presidential candidate.
1722
01:22:07.027 --> 01:22:09.420
(singing the national anthem)
1723
01:22:09.420 --> 01:22:12.090
The first mutterings of a power struggle
1724
01:22:12.090 --> 01:22:13.400
over the coming succession
1725
01:22:13.400 --> 01:22:16.163
to the ANC\'s top job had started.
1726
01:22:20.293 --> 01:22:22.920
1727
01:22:22.920 --> 01:22:27.920
he is charged with corruption is because we concoct it.
1728
01:22:29.210 --> 01:22:31.713
We made it happen this way.
1729
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:35.313 line:15%
In what way are we responsible for this?
1730
01:22:37.670 --> 01:22:38.600 line:15%
Who sent him?
1731
01:22:38.600 --> 01:22:39.830
We didn\'t send him there,
1732
01:22:39.830 --> 01:22:40.993
so who sent him there?
1733
01:22:43.330 --> 01:22:45.187
We didn\'t benefit from that.
1734
01:22:45.187 --> 01:22:47.620
The ANC got nothing from that.
1735
01:22:47.620 --> 01:22:50.760
He\'s the only one who benefited to,
1736
01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:52.890
reportedly benefited to the tune
1737
01:22:52.890 --> 01:22:55.140
of more than a million Rands.
1738
01:22:55.140 --> 01:22:55.973
So what,
1739
01:22:55.973 --> 01:22:59.330
in what way are we in a conspiracy
1740
01:22:59.330 --> 01:23:01.350
to get him into this situation
1741
01:23:01.350 --> 01:23:03.480
of corruption in which he\'s in?
1742
01:23:05.910 --> 01:23:08.100
1743
01:23:08.100 --> 01:23:09.330
And for many,
1744
01:23:09.330 --> 01:23:12.430
the facts behind Zuma\'s corruption allegations
1745
01:23:12.430 --> 01:23:13.893
were no longer the issue.
1746
01:23:15.380 --> 01:23:17.040
Who was trying to discredit him
1747
01:23:17.040 --> 01:23:21.110
and why overshadowed the moral and legal issues
1748
01:23:21.110 --> 01:23:22.610
that should have been tackled.
1749
01:23:25.780 --> 01:23:28.470
But Zuma\'s troubles were just starting.
1750
01:23:28.470 --> 01:23:30.760
His friend and personal financial advisor
1751
01:23:30.760 --> 01:23:33.490
Schabir Shaik was convicted on two counts
1752
01:23:33.490 --> 01:23:35.793
of corruption and a count of fraud.
1753
01:23:38.230 --> 01:23:40.071
During Shaik\'s trial,
1754
01:23:40.071 --> 01:23:42.134
evidence was submitted that Shaik
1755
01:23:42.134 --> 01:23:46.750
used Zuma\'s name to get a French arms deal contract.
1756
01:23:48.160 --> 01:23:51.430
Evidence also showed 200 instances
1757
01:23:51.430 --> 01:23:53.693
where Zuma had taken money from Shaik.
1758
01:23:55.470 --> 01:23:58.640 line:15%
1759
01:23:58.640 --> 01:24:02.630 line:15%
He came with an enormous amount of responsibilities,
1760
01:24:02.630 --> 01:24:03.950
domestic responsibilities,
1761
01:24:03.950 --> 01:24:05.330
he had a lot of children.
1762
01:24:05.330 --> 01:24:06.840
He had several wives.
1763
01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:08.400
He had a big family.
1764
01:24:08.400 --> 01:24:11.160
And they all needed to be looked after.
1765
01:24:11.160 --> 01:24:13.860
And here comes along the brother
1766
01:24:13.860 --> 01:24:17.120
of a comrade Zuma had worked with very very closely.
1767
01:24:17.120 --> 01:24:20.130
Zuma had worked with Mo Shaik in the underground
1768
01:24:20.130 --> 01:24:22.870
in exile very very closely his life,
1769
01:24:22.870 --> 01:24:25.220
that their lives had been dependent on each other
1770
01:24:25.220 --> 01:24:27.110
at some point in time.
1771
01:24:27.110 --> 01:24:30.590
The brother is a businessman and he says,
1772
01:24:30.590 --> 01:24:32.980
just give me the power of attorney,
1773
01:24:32.980 --> 01:24:34.080
you\'re too busy,
1774
01:24:34.080 --> 01:24:35.370
I\'ll deal with it.
1775
01:24:35.370 --> 01:24:36.530
And he did deal with it.
1776
01:24:36.530 --> 01:24:37.740
He paid for school fees
1777
01:24:37.740 --> 01:24:38.730
and he saw that everyone
1778
01:24:38.730 --> 01:24:39.920
got what they needed
1779
01:24:39.920 --> 01:24:41.970
and obviously under Zuma\'s direction
1780
01:24:41.970 --> 01:24:43.453
but he did the paying out.
1781
01:24:44.960 --> 01:24:46.320 line:15%
1782
01:24:46.320 --> 01:24:50.190 line:15%
and hundreds of ANC people who,
1783
01:24:50.190 --> 01:24:52.770 line:15%
with whom we exercise influence of one
1784
01:24:52.770 --> 01:24:53.703
or another kind.
1785
01:24:54.930 --> 01:24:57.000
Because we always can go back to them
1786
01:24:57.000 --> 01:24:58.560
and say do this for me and do that.
1787
01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:00.293
That\'s what we do every day.
1788
01:25:01.610 --> 01:25:03.460
And it\'s not corruption.
1789
01:25:03.460 --> 01:25:04.413
Its network.
1790
01:25:06.430 --> 01:25:07.430
If I need something,
1791
01:25:07.430 --> 01:25:09.380
I was in prison on Robben Island
1792
01:25:09.380 --> 01:25:11.343
I go to a fellow Robben Islander.
1793
01:25:12.998 --> 01:25:16.363
And I say I need fees for my children\'s medical aid.
1794
01:25:18.810 --> 01:25:20.053
And the fellow Robben Islander
1795
01:25:20.053 --> 01:25:22.623
must go and find that money and give it to me.
1796
01:25:23.460 --> 01:25:25.240
1797
01:25:25.240 --> 01:25:29.330
those activities can be classed as corrupt.
1798
01:25:29.330 --> 01:25:30.163
Right.
1799
01:25:30.163 --> 01:25:30.996
And that\'s what\'s happened,
1800
01:25:30.996 --> 01:25:32.793
but you can understand where it came from,
1801
01:25:32.793 --> 01:25:35.890
because Schabir was helping J.Z.
1802
01:25:35.890 --> 01:25:37.290
to manage his finances
1803
01:25:37.290 --> 01:25:39.070
so J.Z.\'s helping him with his business,
1804
01:25:39.070 --> 01:25:40.280
of course it\'s corrupt,
1805
01:25:40.280 --> 01:25:41.870
but it\'s not seen as being corrupt,
1806
01:25:41.870 --> 01:25:44.050
it\'s not done because it\'s corrupt.
1807
01:25:44.050 --> 01:25:46.020
It happens to fall that way.
1808
01:25:46.020 --> 01:25:47.640
And that\'s been one of the problems
1809
01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:50.750
that that adjustment of how we worked
1810
01:25:50.750 --> 01:25:53.500
in exile when we all shared everything.
1811
01:25:53.500 --> 01:25:55.110
1812
01:25:55.110 --> 01:25:56.053
I don\'t think so.
1813
01:25:57.250 --> 01:25:58.853
Why should it be particularly Zuma
1814
01:25:58.853 --> 01:26:00.910
that must deny himself?
1815
01:26:00.910 --> 01:26:04.210
Thabo himself lived off those networks.
1816
01:26:04.210 --> 01:26:06.193
So if someone just sits there and says,
1817
01:26:07.534 --> 01:26:09.400
this was corruption blah blah blah.
1818
01:26:09.400 --> 01:26:10.513
That\'s their opinion.
1819
01:26:11.600 --> 01:26:12.970
It\'s not necessarily the opinion
1820
01:26:12.970 --> 01:26:15.333
of people in the ANC.
1821
01:26:17.302 --> 01:26:18.754 line:15%
1822
01:26:18.754 --> 01:26:21.090 line:15%
and a few others,
1823
01:26:21.090 --> 01:26:23.990 line:15%
they were supposed to be the sacrificial goats.
1824
01:26:23.990 --> 01:26:25.720
Which doesn\'t absolve them
1825
01:26:25.720 --> 01:26:27.840
from their responsibility.
1826
01:26:27.840 --> 01:26:29.390
Now the point is that Zuma
1827
01:26:29.390 --> 01:26:31.853
doesn\'t want to be a sacrificial goat.
1828
01:26:32.850 --> 01:26:34.983
When you know what\'s going on in that world,
1829
01:26:34.983 --> 01:26:37.560
a world of arms deals.
1830
01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:39.410
To be facing corruption charges
1831
01:26:39.410 --> 01:26:42.560
because you supposedly got half a million Rands
1832
01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:43.970
is ridiculous.
1833
01:26:43.970 --> 01:26:45.580
It\'s the equivalent of what?
1834
01:26:45.580 --> 01:26:48.040
Less than 50,000 Euros.
1835
01:26:48.040 --> 01:26:52.050
It\'s totally ridiculous because in that,
1836
01:26:52.050 --> 01:26:52.883
that,
1837
01:26:52.883 --> 01:26:53.716
that shady world,
1838
01:26:55.310 --> 01:26:58.283
kickbacks are substantial.
1839
01:26:59.270 --> 01:27:02.860
Or you get caught because you benefited
1840
01:27:02.860 --> 01:27:06.740
from discount on a car,
1841
01:27:06.740 --> 01:27:07.873
of all things.
1842
01:27:08.760 --> 01:27:09.810
It\'s miserable.
1843
01:27:09.810 --> 01:27:11.673
It\'s absolutely pathetic.
1844
01:27:14.290 --> 01:27:15.820
It\'s pitiful.
1845
01:27:15.820 --> 01:27:17.920
That\'s the pity and the tragedy of it all.
1846
01:27:20.370 --> 01:27:23.400
1847
01:27:23.400 --> 01:27:24.233
and that there were others,
1848
01:27:24.233 --> 01:27:25.820
far more corrupt and far richer
1849
01:27:25.820 --> 01:27:28.283
than he who were getting off scot free.
1850
01:27:30.200 --> 01:27:32.500
The poor identified with his plight.
1851
01:27:32.500 --> 01:27:34.250
And to them it was proof
1852
01:27:34.250 --> 01:27:38.096
that Zuma had not benefited from the BEE deals
1853
01:27:38.096 --> 01:27:41.698
that had made other struggle heroes millionaires.
1854
01:27:41.698 --> 01:27:44.448
(crowd cheering)
1855
01:27:47.890 --> 01:27:49.910
The Zuma saga fueled tensions
1856
01:27:49.910 --> 01:27:52.870
between the ANC and its alliance partners.
1857
01:27:52.870 --> 01:27:54.980
Strikes and demonstrations,
1858
01:27:54.980 --> 01:27:58.400
planned to contest the country\'s economic policy GEAR
1859
01:27:58.400 --> 01:28:00.663
turned into a wave of support for Zuma.
1860
01:28:02.210 --> 01:28:03.690
An odd development,
1861
01:28:03.690 --> 01:28:07.180
given that Zuma himself was intimately connected
1862
01:28:07.180 --> 01:28:09.900
to the implementation of the very policies
1863
01:28:09.900 --> 01:28:11.000
they were challenging.
1864
01:28:14.986 --> 01:28:17.123
(applause)
1865
01:28:17.123 --> 01:28:20.180
The Zuma drama was spiraling out of control.
1866
01:28:20.180 --> 01:28:22.253
President Mbeki decided to act.
1867
01:28:23.290 --> 01:28:25.720
1868
01:28:25.720 --> 01:28:27.000
I\'ve come to the conclusion
1869
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:29.180
that the circumstances dictate that
1870
01:28:29.180 --> 01:28:31.610
in the interests of the honorable Deputy President.
1871
01:28:31.610 --> 01:28:33.030
the government,
1872
01:28:33.030 --> 01:28:34.310
our young democratic system
1873
01:28:34.310 --> 01:28:35.850
and our country.
1874
01:28:35.850 --> 01:28:37.710
It would be best to release honorable
1875
01:28:37.710 --> 01:28:40.340
Jacob Zuma from his responsibilities
1876
01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:42.000
as Deputy President of the Republic
1877
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:43.710
and member of the cabinet.
1878
01:28:43.710 --> 01:28:45.470 line:15%
1879
01:28:45.470 --> 01:28:47.333 line:15%
to relieve Zuma of his duties.
1880
01:28:49.040 --> 01:28:50.383 line:15%
No quarrel with that.
1881
01:28:51.493 --> 01:28:54.573
The problem comes when he talks to Parliament.
1882
01:28:55.420 --> 01:28:56.740
He says this Constitution of ours
1883
01:28:56.740 --> 01:29:00.320
says a person is innocent until found guilty.
1884
01:29:00.320 --> 01:29:01.510
But he\'s acting to me
1885
01:29:01.510 --> 01:29:02.960
as if I\'ve been found guilty.
1886
01:29:03.934 --> 01:29:06.506
1887
01:29:06.506 --> 01:29:09.820
an assumed unsavory relationship.
1888
01:29:09.820 --> 01:29:12.533
The Deputy President has yet to have his day in court.
1889
01:29:13.460 --> 01:29:15.890
1890
01:29:15.890 --> 01:29:16.983
I\'m not charged.
1891
01:29:18.520 --> 01:29:20.240
I\'m not charged.
1892
01:29:20.240 --> 01:29:22.560
There\'s just been a reference to my name
1893
01:29:22.560 --> 01:29:24.553
in a decision taken by court somewhere.
1894
01:29:25.720 --> 01:29:26.553
I\'m not charged.
1895
01:29:26.553 --> 01:29:27.770
Why should he say,
1896
01:29:27.770 --> 01:29:29.950
I must have my day in court?
1897
01:29:29.950 --> 01:29:31.612
When I\'m not charged.
1898
01:29:31.612 --> 01:29:32.445
1899
01:29:32.445 --> 01:29:33.460
1900
01:29:33.460 --> 01:29:35.340
that looks like an instruction
1901
01:29:36.400 --> 01:29:38.193
to those who have to judge him.
1902
01:29:39.120 --> 01:29:41.870
What could inform him to say that?
1903
01:29:41.870 --> 01:29:44.427
If it\'s not politically motivated?
1904
01:29:45.420 --> 01:29:47.837
(protesting)
1905
01:30:01.160 --> 01:30:04.810 line:15%
1906
01:30:04.810 --> 01:30:06.310 line:15%
within the ANC.
1907
01:30:06.310 --> 01:30:07.540
It was the point at which
1908
01:30:07.540 --> 01:30:10.240
the battle for the succession,
1909
01:30:10.240 --> 01:30:13.763
for the presidency of the ANC exploded.
1910
01:30:14.830 --> 01:30:17.940
And it was the point at which people
1911
01:30:17.940 --> 01:30:20.830
in the ANC were forced to take sides.
1912
01:30:20.830 --> 01:30:22.430
You were either for Mbeki
1913
01:30:22.430 --> 01:30:24.387
or you were for Zuma.
1914
01:30:24.387 --> 01:30:26.637
(chanting)
1915
01:30:36.910 --> 01:30:39.300
1916
01:30:39.300 --> 01:30:42.573
he was charged on various counts of corruption and fraud.
1917
01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:50.233
Support rallies preceded every hearing.
1918
01:30:51.080 --> 01:30:53.500
They became a forum for people to voice
1919
01:30:53.500 --> 01:30:57.302
their bottled up frustration with slow transformation.
1920
01:30:57.302 --> 01:30:59.719
(protesting)
1921
01:31:00.920 --> 01:31:04.410 line:15%
1922
01:31:04.410 --> 01:31:08.850 line:15%
is that lack of confidence in the judiciary.
1923
01:31:08.850 --> 01:31:10.730
That they don\'t feel that he can get
1924
01:31:10.730 --> 01:31:12.525
justice from this judiciary.
1925
01:31:12.525 --> 01:31:14.114
(chanting)
1926
01:31:14.114 --> 01:31:15.810
Most black people don\'t think that they can get justice
1927
01:31:15.810 --> 01:31:17.187
in our law courts.
1928
01:31:18.460 --> 01:31:19.780
1929
01:31:19.780 --> 01:31:21.093
as a victim of the system.
1930
01:31:22.510 --> 01:31:23.610
1931
01:31:24.761 --> 01:31:28.443
Let there be transformation in the judiciary.
1932
01:31:28.443 --> 01:31:32.466
Let there be transformation in the judiciary.
1933
01:31:32.466 --> 01:31:35.183
(honking)
1934
01:31:35.183 --> 01:31:36.950
1935
01:31:36.950 --> 01:31:40.688
of the past like the sunset clauses resurfaced.
1936
01:31:40.688 --> 01:31:42.855
(honking)
1937
01:31:46.530 --> 01:31:50.023
But Zuma\'s organized backing came from within the movement.
1938
01:31:50.900 --> 01:31:54.040
1939
01:31:54.040 --> 01:31:55.752
That you have served this country.
1940
01:31:55.752 --> 01:31:59.200
We will always be behind you in all your difficulties.
1941
01:31:59.200 --> 01:32:01.370 line:15%
1942
01:32:01.370 --> 01:32:04.180 line:15%
and more critically the ANC\'s Youth League
1943
01:32:04.180 --> 01:32:06.143
would be key in the succession battle.
1944
01:32:07.895 --> 01:32:09.542
(cheering)
1945
01:32:09.542 --> 01:32:11.680 line:15%
1946
01:32:11.680 --> 01:32:12.513 line:15%
I think,
1947
01:32:12.513 --> 01:32:16.300 line:15%
very adeptly stitched together a coalition.
1948
01:32:16.300 --> 01:32:17.390
People that are disgruntled,
1949
01:32:17.390 --> 01:32:19.310
have been marginalized in one form or another
1950
01:32:19.310 --> 01:32:22.360
and felt that someone in the Mbeki inner circle
1951
01:32:22.360 --> 01:32:24.460
had benefited from the privatization process
1952
01:32:24.460 --> 01:32:26.970
of the tender and there had been less faith and so,
1953
01:32:26.970 --> 01:32:29.300
therefore in alignment with Zuma
1954
01:32:29.300 --> 01:32:31.370
because he seemed to be in opposition
1955
01:32:31.370 --> 01:32:35.200
and perhaps he might then reverse the processes
1956
01:32:35.200 --> 01:32:37.140
and they will then benefit from the things said.
1957
01:32:37.140 --> 01:32:40.290
Numbers of people for varying degrees coalescing.
1958
01:32:40.290 --> 01:32:42.825
And around a sense of grievance
1959
01:32:42.825 --> 01:32:44.140
and a sense that there is a conspiracy
1960
01:32:44.140 --> 01:32:45.540
directed against us and so on.
1961
01:32:45.540 --> 01:32:49.380
And that\'s what burst out in the National General Council
1962
01:32:49.380 --> 01:32:50.647
of the ANC.
1963
01:32:50.647 --> 01:32:54.110
(people cheering)
1964
01:32:54.110 --> 01:32:56.830
1965
01:32:56.830 --> 01:32:59.410
to debate policies that would be submitted
1966
01:32:59.410 --> 01:33:01.610
to the conference in Polokwane.
1967
01:33:01.610 --> 01:33:04.130
This meeting was held less than 10 days
1968
01:33:04.130 --> 01:33:05.368
after Zuma was charged.
1969
01:33:05.368 --> 01:33:10.285 line:15%
(chanting and singing in foreign language)
1970
01:33:21.180 --> 01:33:23.349
The tension was palpable
1971
01:33:23.349 --> 01:33:24.810
and the Secretary General\'s attempt
1972
01:33:24.810 --> 01:33:27.033
to calm the delegates fell on deaf ears.
1973
01:33:28.850 --> 01:33:29.683
1974
01:33:29.683 --> 01:33:32.780
members and supporters of the ANC are,
1975
01:33:32.780 --> 01:33:33.613
understandably,
1976
01:33:34.920 --> 01:33:38.690
greatly pained by the events of the last few weeks.
1977
01:33:38.690 --> 01:33:41.350
The ANC has maintained throughout this matter
1978
01:33:42.520 --> 01:33:45.620
that the due process of law
1979
01:33:45.620 --> 01:33:49.570
must be allowed to proceed without let or hindrance
1980
01:33:49.570 --> 01:33:52.530
and that the basic principles of justice,
1981
01:33:52.530 --> 01:33:55.590
including the right to presumption of innocence
1982
01:33:55.590 --> 01:33:57.513
should be observed.
1983
01:33:57.513 --> 01:34:02.513 line:15%
(chanting and singing in foreign language)
1984
01:34:02.850 --> 01:34:04.480
1985
01:34:04.480 --> 01:34:05.773
a clear message.
1986
01:34:05.773 --> 01:34:10.690
(chanting and singing in foreign language)
1987
01:34:26.380 --> 01:34:30.380
1988
01:34:30.380 --> 01:34:33.000
in the National General Council.
1989
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:34.627 line:15%
That weekend,
1990
01:34:34.627 --> 01:34:37.280 line:15%
it expresses itself again
1991
01:34:38.370 --> 01:34:42.953 line:15%
in the form of the President of the ANC then,
1992
01:34:42.953 --> 01:34:43.953
Thabo Mbeki saying,
1993
01:34:43.953 --> 01:34:46.360
in front of all television.
1994
01:34:46.360 --> 01:34:51.360
In spite of the humiliation two days before then,
1995
01:34:52.080 --> 01:34:55.520
that he will stand for the third term
1996
01:34:55.520 --> 01:34:58.160
if he is asked to do so
1997
01:34:58.160 --> 01:35:00.970
by the leadership of the African National Congress.
1998
01:35:00.970 --> 01:35:04.160
1999
01:35:04.160 --> 01:35:05.240
2000
01:35:05.240 --> 01:35:08.830
by what sense of comfort members of the ANC have.
2001
01:35:08.830 --> 01:35:09.917
2002
01:35:09.917 --> 01:35:11.910
you would take that opportunity?
2003
01:35:11.910 --> 01:35:12.743
2004
01:35:12.743 --> 01:35:16.890
If they said well we want you to continue... fine.
2005
01:35:16.890 --> 01:35:21.630
2006
01:35:21.630 --> 01:35:23.415
Zuma you\'re my president
2007
01:35:23.415 --> 01:35:26.640
and you have the president of the ANC saying I will stand.
2008
01:35:26.640 --> 01:35:28.790
So the battle lines had already been drawn.
2009
01:35:30.070 --> 01:35:34.790
2010
01:35:34.790 --> 01:35:37.683 line:15%
it actually made him into a victim.
2011
01:35:39.250 --> 01:35:44.250 line:15%
And generated him to emerge as a symbol,
2012
01:35:44.370 --> 01:35:48.323
unifying every form of dissatisfaction with Thabo Mbeki.
2013
01:35:49.860 --> 01:35:54.210
And focused the issues that the country was struggling with,
2014
01:35:54.210 --> 01:35:57.310
that the ANC and the alliance was struggling with.
2015
01:35:57.310 --> 01:36:00.961
Focused and reduced the issues to a personality quarrel.
2016
01:36:00.961 --> 01:36:03.340
(chanting)
2017
01:36:03.340 --> 01:36:05.840
2018
01:36:05.840 --> 01:36:07.420
the debate of a delivery,
2019
01:36:07.420 --> 01:36:09.643
poverty and crime to the back seat.
2020
01:36:10.530 --> 01:36:13.280
Zuma was now seen as a champion of the poor
2021
01:36:13.280 --> 01:36:15.470
and the man who would reverse the inequalities
2022
01:36:15.470 --> 01:36:16.713
of the Mbeki era.
2023
01:36:18.270 --> 01:36:20.910
That Zuma had been Mbeki\'s right hand man
2024
01:36:20.910 --> 01:36:23.753
for almost a decade seemed irrelevant.
2025
01:36:27.270 --> 01:36:29.370 line:15%
2026
01:36:29.370 --> 01:36:32.790 line:15%
I never could establish a single thing
2027
01:36:32.790 --> 01:36:35.160 line:15%
on which Jacob Zuma disagreed with Thabo Mbeki
2028
01:36:35.160 --> 01:36:37.820
or Thabo Mbeki disagreed with Jacob Zuma.
2029
01:36:37.820 --> 01:36:39.270
I can\'t find a single thing.
2030
01:36:39.270 --> 01:36:41.580
I\'m waiting for someone to show me what it is.
2031
01:36:41.580 --> 01:36:43.580
And there wouldn\'t be anything because they come
2032
01:36:43.580 --> 01:36:44.910
from the same stable,
2033
01:36:44.910 --> 01:36:46.380
from the same place.
2034
01:36:46.380 --> 01:36:48.470
They\'ve been fighting for the same policies
2035
01:36:48.470 --> 01:36:51.060
in the leadership of the ANC since I can remember.
2036
01:36:51.060 --> 01:36:53.857
Why would now suddenly there be a difference?
2037
01:36:53.857 --> 01:36:55.327
(cheering)
2038
01:36:55.327 --> 01:36:58.072
2039
01:36:58.072 --> 01:37:01.300
Not completely different but I mean here you have one man
2040
01:37:01.300 --> 01:37:04.570
who has very little formal education.
2041
01:37:04.570 --> 01:37:09.050 line:15%
His mastery of English language is you know,
2042
01:37:09.050 --> 01:37:10.133 line:15%
very dodgy.
2043
01:37:11.100 --> 01:37:12.950
The trade unioners.
2044
01:37:12.950 --> 01:37:17.120
In many respects he\'s the direct opposite of the vain,
2045
01:37:17.990 --> 01:37:19.570
highly educated,
2046
01:37:19.570 --> 01:37:21.920
highly articulate in the English language,
2047
01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:23.390
Mbeki.
2048
01:37:23.390 --> 01:37:24.550
You see for example,
2049
01:37:24.550 --> 01:37:26.460
if you are highly literate.
2050
01:37:26.460 --> 01:37:29.280
For information you know where to get it
2051
01:37:29.280 --> 01:37:30.870
from a hundred and one places.
2052
01:37:30.870 --> 01:37:32.840
You don\'t need to talk to a single person
2053
01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:34.740
to get the information.
2054
01:37:34.740 --> 01:37:36.890
If you don\'t have that the only way
2055
01:37:36.890 --> 01:37:41.540
you\'re going to get your information is by the old way,
2056
01:37:41.540 --> 01:37:44.890
by talking and communicating with people verbally.
2057
01:37:44.890 --> 01:37:46.990
So that already makes for different style.
2058
01:37:48.254 --> 01:37:52.347
(speaking in foreign language)
2059
01:37:52.347 --> 01:37:55.890 line:15%
2060
01:37:55.890 --> 01:37:59.400 line:15%
between two tendencies within the ANC.
2061
01:37:59.400 --> 01:38:01.420
The Mbeki tendency,
2062
01:38:01.420 --> 01:38:03.980
described as the president and his briefcase carriers.
2063
01:38:03.980 --> 01:38:08.800
So Mbeki and the technocrats who a significant section
2064
01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:11.510
of the party and the allies believe has become
2065
01:38:11.510 --> 01:38:12.840
arrogant,
2066
01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:13.930
aloof,
2067
01:38:13.930 --> 01:38:16.300
governs in this little clique in a completely
2068
01:38:16.300 --> 01:38:18.910
non consultative and inappropriate way.
2069
01:38:18.910 --> 01:38:23.900
And between those in the ANC who believe the process
2070
01:38:23.900 --> 01:38:26.453
of governance should be a more open process.
2071
01:38:27.300 --> 01:38:29.717
(protesting)
2072
01:38:30.940 --> 01:38:33.750
2073
01:38:33.750 --> 01:38:36.763
The power struggle between the two men was looking ugly.
2074
01:38:39.840 --> 01:38:43.253
But what happened next almost turned it into a soap opera.
2075
01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:47.700
Four months after being charged with corruption,
2076
01:38:47.700 --> 01:38:50.521
Zuma was charged with rape.
2077
01:38:50.521 --> 01:38:51.670
(dolorous music)
2078
01:38:51.670 --> 01:38:54.740 line:15%
2079
01:38:54.740 --> 01:38:56.540 line:15%
who is going to charge you for rape.
2080
01:38:59.347 --> 01:39:00.940 line:15%
And I said is that so?
2081
01:39:00.940 --> 01:39:01.793
They said yes.
2082
01:39:03.890 --> 01:39:04.723
Who is the woman?
2083
01:39:04.723 --> 01:39:05.556
They mentioned a name.
2084
01:39:05.556 --> 01:39:07.530
So I said well I think I know.
2085
01:39:07.530 --> 01:39:08.977
Many people said he\'s dead,
2086
01:39:08.977 --> 01:39:11.070
that\'s the end of his career.
2087
01:39:11.070 --> 01:39:13.443
My career was not made up,
2088
01:39:14.310 --> 01:39:15.980
out of love affairs.
2089
01:39:15.980 --> 01:39:16.973
Or by the media.
2090
01:39:17.810 --> 01:39:21.420
I worked as a young man to do what I am today.
2091
01:39:21.420 --> 01:39:22.960
2092
01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:25.980
The person alleging rape.
2093
01:39:25.980 --> 01:39:30.050 line:15%
She was the daughter of a comrade of ours operating
2094
01:39:30.050 --> 01:39:34.650 line:15%
out of Manzini in Swaziland who we were very close to.
2095
01:39:34.650 --> 01:39:37.220
And we were both working together,
2096
01:39:37.220 --> 01:39:42.220
Jacob Zuma and myself and I met her at this comrade\'s home
2097
01:39:43.180 --> 01:39:45.230
as a five year old girl.
2098
01:39:45.230 --> 01:39:49.020
She phoned me and basically said to me
2099
01:39:49.020 --> 01:39:51.370
that she had been raped.
2100
01:39:51.370 --> 01:39:53.780
And by whom.
2101
01:39:53.780 --> 01:39:57.590
And I was pretty shaken and I questioned her
2102
01:39:57.590 --> 01:40:00.410
and I said why are you phoning me?
2103
01:40:00.410 --> 01:40:02.450
Because I thought it was rather odd.
2104
01:40:02.450 --> 01:40:05.040
And I said look there\'s nothing to be gained
2105
01:40:05.040 --> 01:40:08.030
by involving me because what will happen
2106
01:40:08.030 --> 01:40:10.353
is it can just politicize the issue.
2107
01:40:11.669 --> 01:40:13.919
(chanting)
2108
01:40:16.830 --> 01:40:17.780
2109
01:40:17.780 --> 01:40:20.583
Zuma\'s supporters believe he was set up.
2110
01:40:22.420 --> 01:40:26.163
But a serious shadow had been cast on Zuma\'s judgment.
2111
01:40:26.163 --> 01:40:30.221
After all he admitted that he was aware
2112
01:40:30.221 --> 01:40:32.350
of the accuser\'s HIV positive status
2113
01:40:32.350 --> 01:40:34.463
and yet did not take precautions.
2114
01:40:35.700 --> 01:40:40.040
2115
01:40:40.040 --> 01:40:42.220
was in a more enlightened position than Mbeki.
2116
01:40:42.220 --> 01:40:45.530
At least he didn\'t challenge the science of HIV/AIDS.
2117
01:40:45.530 --> 01:40:46.610
But then,
2118
01:40:46.610 --> 01:40:50.560
when he was asked why he had unprotected sex
2119
01:40:50.560 --> 01:40:53.453
with somebody who he knew to be HIV positive,
2120
01:40:54.300 --> 01:40:57.505
he answered that he believed
2121
01:40:57.505 --> 01:40:59.710
that by having a vigorous shower after sex
2122
01:40:59.710 --> 01:41:02.580
he wouldn\'t contract HIV.
2123
01:41:02.580 --> 01:41:05.140
Which clearly means that he doesn\'t understand
2124
01:41:05.140 --> 01:41:06.770
anything about HIV and AIDS
2125
01:41:06.770 --> 01:41:07.603
and that,
2126
01:41:07.603 --> 01:41:10.760
in his personal behavior and practices,
2127
01:41:10.760 --> 01:41:15.720
he is in no way an example to the people of the country
2128
01:41:15.720 --> 01:41:19.500
that is either the most or the second most HIV
2129
01:41:19.500 --> 01:41:22.120
positive people in the world.
2130
01:41:22.120 --> 01:41:24.884
2131
01:41:24.884 --> 01:41:28.800
should have unprotected sex with a person
2132
01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:31.300
other than his regular partner
2133
01:41:31.300 --> 01:41:33.930
and definitely not with a person who,
2134
01:41:33.930 --> 01:41:35.300
to his knowledge,
2135
01:41:35.300 --> 01:41:37.460
is HIV positive.
2136
01:41:37.460 --> 01:41:41.180
I do not even want to comment on the effect of a shower
2137
01:41:41.180 --> 01:41:43.510
after having had unprotected sex.
2138
01:41:43.510 --> 01:41:45.927
(protesting)
2139
01:41:49.980 --> 01:41:52.470
2140
01:41:52.470 --> 01:41:54.710
And I think that the behavior of people
2141
01:41:56.285 --> 01:41:57.480
reported to be supporting Zuma
2142
01:41:57.480 --> 01:41:59.100
was outrageous and disgusting
2143
01:41:59.100 --> 01:42:01.933
and we condemned it but perhaps insufficiently.
2144
01:42:03.070 --> 01:42:05.930 line:15%
I think that obviously the person who brought the complaint
2145
01:42:05.930 --> 01:42:09.340 line:15%
came out of it damaged,
2146
01:42:09.340 --> 01:42:10.770
more damaged than ever.
2147
01:42:10.770 --> 01:42:14.120
The strategy that Zuma developed in defending himself
2148
01:42:14.120 --> 01:42:18.790
was particularly unpleasant and he apologized later for it.
2149
01:42:18.790 --> 01:42:20.869
2150
01:42:20.869 --> 01:42:23.119
(cheering)
2151
01:42:26.811 --> 01:42:29.394
(upbeat music)
2152
01:42:32.714 --> 01:42:35.513
2153
01:42:38.783 --> 01:42:41.680
(speaking in foreign language)
2154
01:42:41.680 --> 01:42:44.550
He went on stage and sang Umshini wami,
2155
01:42:44.550 --> 01:42:47.850
a symbolic struggle song indicating he would fight on
2156
01:42:47.850 --> 01:42:49.650
to the bitter end.
2157
01:42:49.650 --> 01:42:53.080
The song became a battle chant for his supporters.
2158
01:42:53.080 --> 01:42:56.330
(singing Umshini wami)
2159
01:43:01.496 --> 01:43:04.610
2160
01:43:04.610 --> 01:43:05.943
I could\'ve sung any song.
2161
01:43:06.980 --> 01:43:08.230
I just love singing this one,
2162
01:43:08.230 --> 01:43:09.063
it\'s very nice.
2163
01:43:10.720 --> 01:43:13.116
In funerals it\'s the song that I love
2164
01:43:13.116 --> 01:43:14.936
and I will sing it on Sunday.
2165
01:43:14.936 --> 01:43:15.936
Thina Sizwe.
2166
01:43:16.910 --> 01:43:17.960
I love this song.
2167
01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:21.198
Nobody has said why do you say this?
2168
01:43:21.198 --> 01:43:23.781
Umshini wami meant Machine gun.
2169
01:43:26.173 --> 01:43:28.840
(crowd singing)
2170
01:43:31.334 --> 01:43:32.487
2171
01:43:32.487 --> 01:43:35.903
meaning give me my machine gun played on struggle nostalgia.
2172
01:43:39.470 --> 01:43:42.040
It sent to Zuma supporters the message
2173
01:43:42.040 --> 01:43:45.183
that he had not abandoned the dreams they had fought for.
2174
01:43:47.510 --> 01:43:48.882
2175
01:43:48.882 --> 01:43:51.549
Awuleth umshini wami is the song
2176
01:43:52.474 --> 01:43:54.490
of the African National Congress.
2177
01:43:54.490 --> 01:43:58.270
Mainly sung by MK in the camps
2178
01:43:58.270 --> 01:44:01.433
when they were itching to go and fight.
2179
01:44:02.270 --> 01:44:04.213
It is not the song of an individual.
2180
01:44:05.470 --> 01:44:07.824
I know that other people feel I composed this song,
2181
01:44:07.824 --> 01:44:08.657
not at all.
2182
01:44:08.657 --> 01:44:11.753
This is the song of the African National Congress.
2183
01:44:12.880 --> 01:44:14.350
Sung by the ANC,
2184
01:44:14.350 --> 01:44:16.137
a wonderful song.
2185
01:44:16.137 --> 01:44:18.151
Umshini wami.
2186
01:44:18.151 --> 01:44:21.793
♪Umshini wami♪
♪Umshini wami♪
2187
01:44:21.793 --> 01:44:26.793
♪Umshini wami♪
♪Umshini wami we ba ba♪
2188
01:44:27.852 --> 01:44:31.435
(all singing Umshini wami)
2189
01:44:37.200 --> 01:44:40.947
2190
01:44:42.940 --> 01:44:46.910
who was very much into the MK culture.
2191
01:44:46.910 --> 01:44:51.910
And that song was almost sacrosanct to us
2192
01:44:52.360 --> 01:44:56.760
in terms of the war that we waged,
2193
01:44:56.760 --> 01:45:01.760
our armed struggle against apartheid,
2194
01:45:02.092 --> 01:45:05.493
against what we termed were the Boers at the time.
2195
01:45:07.040 --> 01:45:11.649
So it\'s very much within that context.
2196
01:45:11.649 --> 01:45:16.649
Post 94 we had a different form of struggle.
2197
01:45:17.220 --> 01:45:22.220
It was a song which we never evoked from 94.
2198
01:45:23.720 --> 01:45:25.610
2199
01:45:25.610 --> 01:45:28.110
about the struggle days
2200
01:45:28.110 --> 01:45:31.540
if freedom had been really achieved?
2201
01:45:31.540 --> 01:45:34.710 line:15%
People would be nostalgic if they have a feeling
2202
01:45:34.710 --> 01:45:37.100 line:15%
that what they were fighting for,
2203
01:45:37.100 --> 01:45:39.000 line:15%
they haven\'t got it yet.
2204
01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:41.670
That\'s why they would want to go back.
2205
01:45:41.670 --> 01:45:44.413
Take up the gun and fight again.
2206
01:45:45.827 --> 01:45:48.090
Because you want a sense of that sentiment,
2207
01:45:48.090 --> 01:45:49.143
that in fact,
2208
01:45:50.430 --> 01:45:52.840
we fought and we thought we won
2209
01:45:52.840 --> 01:45:53.673
but we didn\'t.
2210
01:45:53.673 --> 01:45:57.671
So let\'s go back and start the fight all over again.
2211
01:45:57.671 --> 01:45:59.921
(chanting)
2212
01:46:01.400 --> 01:46:03.120
2213
01:46:03.120 --> 01:46:05.020
at Zuma\'s opportunistic use
2214
01:46:05.020 --> 01:46:07.947
of the struggle to win personal support.
2215
01:46:07.947 --> 01:46:11.680
(singing in a foreign language)
2216
01:46:11.680 --> 01:46:12.970
Terror Lekota,
2217
01:46:12.970 --> 01:46:14.610
then chairman of the ANC,
2218
01:46:14.610 --> 01:46:17.970
was outraged and publicly called ANC members
2219
01:46:17.970 --> 01:46:19.300
singing Umshini wami
2220
01:46:19.300 --> 01:46:20.663
brainless and fools.
2221
01:46:21.849 --> 01:46:23.085
That did not go down well.
2222
01:46:23.085 --> 01:46:24.627
2223
01:46:24.627 --> 01:46:27.283
and if your mind is clear,
2224
01:46:28.390 --> 01:46:29.860
in your mind,
2225
01:46:29.860 --> 01:46:32.023
you can\'t say to people Umshini wami
2226
01:46:33.074 --> 01:46:34.824
and let\'s go with it.
2227
01:46:38.081 --> 01:46:38.914
2228
01:46:38.914 --> 01:46:39.747
poor Terror,
2229
01:46:39.747 --> 01:46:43.100 line:15%
unilaterally using his position as chairperson to say
2230
01:46:43.100 --> 01:46:45.093 line:15%
now you cannot sing that song.
2231
01:46:47.850 --> 01:46:50.090
Are we going back to the era of the Tsars?
2232
01:46:50.090 --> 01:46:53.800
2233
01:46:53.800 --> 01:46:57.300
But was he not saying you know comrades,
2234
01:46:57.300 --> 01:47:00.440
this belongs within a different context
2235
01:47:00.440 --> 01:47:02.620
to a different era.
2236
01:47:02.620 --> 01:47:04.780
Taking up machine guns now?
2237
01:47:04.780 --> 01:47:08.500
In post 1994 South Africa?
2238
01:47:08.500 --> 01:47:13.500
You must be very careful not to abuse a struggle culture
2239
01:47:13.700 --> 01:47:14.873
and heritage.
2240
01:47:16.054 --> 01:47:17.130
(singing in a foreign language)
2241
01:47:17.130 --> 01:47:20.340 line:15%
2242
01:47:21.650 --> 01:47:23.560 line:15%
the culture that we built up.
2243
01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:24.972 line:15%
Our songs,
2244
01:47:24.972 --> 01:47:25.805
our poetry,
2245
01:47:25.805 --> 01:47:26.638
our literature,
2246
01:47:26.638 --> 01:47:27.471
our history.
2247
01:47:27.471 --> 01:47:29.540
And so if you say today it is wrong to sing it,
2248
01:47:29.540 --> 01:47:31.140
you are saying to people
2249
01:47:31.140 --> 01:47:34.213
your past must be wiped off the slate.
2250
01:47:35.399 --> 01:47:37.340
And that\'s not going to happen.
2251
01:47:37.340 --> 01:47:39.507
(singing)
2252
01:47:48.407 --> 01:47:49.966
(upbeat music)
2253
01:47:49.966 --> 01:47:50.799
2254
01:47:50.799 --> 01:47:52.853
by ANC infighting.
2255
01:47:56.910 --> 01:47:59.940
The political arena was wide open for opposition
2256
01:47:59.940 --> 01:48:03.243
parties represented in Parliament to gain ground.
2257
01:48:05.250 --> 01:48:09.250
2258
01:48:09.250 --> 01:48:12.430 line:15%
So there\'s a serious crisis of the opposition
2259
01:48:13.340 --> 01:48:14.950 line:15%
in South Africa.
2260
01:48:14.950 --> 01:48:17.540 line:15%
The opposition hasn\'t been able to,
2261
01:48:17.540 --> 01:48:18.530
first of all,
2262
01:48:18.530 --> 01:48:19.363
coalesce,
2263
01:48:20.500 --> 01:48:21.800
come together.
2264
01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:22.750
Second,
2265
01:48:22.750 --> 01:48:27.750
offer a clear alternative in relation to what the ANC
2266
01:48:27.910 --> 01:48:29.120
has to offer.
2267
01:48:29.120 --> 01:48:31.540 line:15%
2268
01:48:31.540 --> 01:48:34.950 line:15%
by political organizations is determined
2269
01:48:34.950 --> 01:48:37.810
largely by the role they played in the past
2270
01:48:37.810 --> 01:48:40.253
or what people think they play today.
2271
01:48:40.253 --> 01:48:41.086 line:15%
2272
01:48:41.086 --> 01:48:42.150 line:15%
2273
01:48:42.150 --> 01:48:44.300 line:15%
the main opposition party
2274
01:48:44.300 --> 01:48:46.160 line:15%
is seen as representing white interests,
2275
01:48:46.160 --> 01:48:47.453 line:15%
the Democratic Alliance.
2276
01:48:48.550 --> 01:48:50.716
Then there are other political party
2277
01:48:50.716 --> 01:48:53.710
like the Inkatha Freedom Party is seen as
2278
01:48:53.710 --> 01:48:56.060
representing tribal interests.
2279
01:48:56.060 --> 01:49:00.240
And that is why the ANC occupies a broader ground
2280
01:49:00.240 --> 01:49:03.540
because it\'s neither tribal nor racial
2281
01:49:03.540 --> 01:49:07.483
so that\'s the dilemma of opposition in South Africa.
2282
01:49:07.483 --> 01:49:11.900
(slow paced string instrument music)
2283
01:49:12.870 --> 01:49:15.410
2284
01:49:15.410 --> 01:49:16.883
of a better life for all.
2285
01:49:19.930 --> 01:49:23.330
Despite slow delivery and growing unemployment,
2286
01:49:23.330 --> 01:49:26.450
most South Africans believed the ANC was doing
2287
01:49:26.450 --> 01:49:27.650
as well as it could
2288
01:49:27.650 --> 01:49:30.060
under tough circumstances.
2289
01:49:30.060 --> 01:49:32.040
The succession battle revealed
2290
01:49:32.040 --> 01:49:33.680
that the political elite
2291
01:49:33.680 --> 01:49:36.693
could hold the entire population\'s dreams hostage.
2292
01:49:39.312 --> 01:49:41.562
(chanting)
2293
01:49:43.810 --> 01:49:45.590
The country held its breath
2294
01:49:45.590 --> 01:49:47.970
as the ANC gathered in Polokwane
2295
01:49:47.970 --> 01:49:49.919
to elect its next president.
2296
01:49:49.919 --> 01:49:52.169
(cheering)
2297
01:49:53.090 --> 01:49:55.770
The duel that had raged on for three years
2298
01:49:55.770 --> 01:49:58.903
would finally be played out in the open.
2299
01:49:58.903 --> 01:50:01.153
(chanting)
2300
01:50:04.414 --> 01:50:06.090
2301
01:50:06.090 --> 01:50:08.360
In fact it helped South Africa
2302
01:50:09.473 --> 01:50:11.703
to avoid a kind of Mugabe like syndrome.
2303
01:50:12.590 --> 01:50:15.830
And one of the fundamental mistakes made
2304
01:50:15.830 --> 01:50:19.880
by President Thabo Mbeki was to imagine that
2305
01:50:19.880 --> 01:50:24.563
he was absolutely indispensable for the party.
2306
01:50:25.624 --> 01:50:28.360
It\'s the same illusion syndrome
2307
01:50:28.360 --> 01:50:30.890
we find everywhere in the continent.
2308
01:50:30.890 --> 01:50:34.057
Where leaders don\'t know when to stop and go.
2309
01:50:34.057 --> 01:50:36.307
(cheering)
2310
01:50:40.570 --> 01:50:42.540
2311
01:50:42.540 --> 01:50:43.980
very well experienced,
2312
01:50:43.980 --> 01:50:45.520
very capable.
2313
01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:47.520
Done a lot of good things,
2314
01:50:47.520 --> 01:50:49.113 line:15%
immensely good things.
2315
01:50:50.930 --> 01:50:52.350 line:15%
But the fault line appeared.
2316
01:50:52.350 --> 01:50:55.310 line:15%
Which said I want to do this forever.
2317
01:50:55.310 --> 01:50:58.283
And people said you\'ve done your bit.
2318
01:50:59.960 --> 01:51:03.101
There\'s a need to get a change in place.
2319
01:51:03.101 --> 01:51:06.759
(speaking in foreign language)
2320
01:51:06.759 --> 01:51:09.009
(chanting)
2321
01:51:12.959 --> 01:51:16.876
(speaking in foreign language)
2322
01:51:20.501 --> 01:51:22.897
2323
01:51:22.897 --> 01:51:23.730
long live.
2324
01:51:24.766 --> 01:51:26.683
(boos)
2325
01:51:39.180 --> 01:51:40.670 line:15%
2326
01:51:40.670 --> 01:51:41.810 line:15%
to the platform,
2327
01:51:41.810 --> 01:51:42.970 line:15%
to Mbeki,
2328
01:51:42.970 --> 01:51:44.790 line:15%
the rude songs.
2329
01:51:44.790 --> 01:51:49.130
That was shocking at older members of the movement
2330
01:51:49.130 --> 01:51:50.460
who weren\'t at Polokwane,
2331
01:51:50.460 --> 01:51:54.000
who were phoning people like myself and others
2332
01:51:54.000 --> 01:51:55.560
and just saying for God\'s sake
2333
01:51:55.560 --> 01:51:57.400
what is happening there?
2334
01:51:57.400 --> 01:52:00.394
2335
01:52:00.394 --> 01:52:02.050
2336
01:52:02.050 --> 01:52:03.500
2337
01:52:06.830 --> 01:52:08.010
2338
01:52:08.010 --> 01:52:10.930 line:15%
I mean that kind of behavior was unacceptable.
2339
01:52:10.930 --> 01:52:13.053 line:15%
But I\'m saying that I personally
2340
01:52:13.053 --> 01:52:14.767
have been long enough in the ANC
2341
01:52:15.912 --> 01:52:17.210
to know where that kind of thing comes from.
2342
01:52:17.210 --> 01:52:18.760
And indeed what we should do about it,
2343
01:52:18.760 --> 01:52:19.960
completely unacceptable.
2344
01:52:20.831 --> 01:52:22.860
(cheering)
2345
01:52:22.860 --> 01:52:26.151
2346
01:52:26.151 --> 01:52:28.330 line:15%
But the chair was cheering
2347
01:52:28.330 --> 01:52:30.963 line:15%
in the most atrocious way.
2348
01:52:32.100 --> 01:52:33.600 line:15%
Plus the chair had come
2349
01:52:33.600 --> 01:52:36.300
having made the rudest remarks
2350
01:52:36.300 --> 01:52:38.740
in the succession race.
2351
01:52:38.740 --> 01:52:41.327
The unfitness of Zuma.
2352
01:52:41.327 --> 01:52:42.993
The Umshini wami song.
2353
01:52:44.030 --> 01:52:44.890
Well,
2354
01:52:44.890 --> 01:52:46.113
what did he expect?
2355
01:52:47.009 --> 01:52:48.131
2356
01:52:48.131 --> 01:52:49.260
order.
2357
01:52:49.260 --> 01:52:51.130
2358
01:52:51.130 --> 01:52:55.010
but the extent of organized dissent from Zuma\'s supporters
2359
01:52:55.010 --> 01:52:57.560
sent shivers down the spines of the few
2360
01:52:57.560 --> 01:52:59.773
remaining non partisans at Polokwane.
2361
01:53:02.505 --> 01:53:05.510
2362
01:53:05.510 --> 01:53:07.700
We\'ve got a right as a conference
2363
01:53:07.700 --> 01:53:09.729
to take a decision on processes
2364
01:53:09.729 --> 01:53:13.065
of how a conference should be run.
2365
01:53:13.065 --> 01:53:14.690
2366
01:53:14.690 --> 01:53:16.363
to raise a counter motion.
2367
01:53:17.531 --> 01:53:20.609
That is a procedure of running an ANC meeting.
2368
01:53:20.609 --> 01:53:21.720
Thank you.
2369
01:53:21.720 --> 01:53:23.311
(applause)
2370
01:53:23.311 --> 01:53:24.220 line:15%
2371
01:53:24.220 --> 01:53:25.970 line:15%
of free speech were being violated
2372
01:53:26.860 --> 01:53:29.750 line:15%
by behavior by the delegates.
2373
01:53:29.750 --> 01:53:32.670
There\'s a manipulation of the agenda
2374
01:53:32.670 --> 01:53:34.360
of the conference.
2375
01:53:34.360 --> 01:53:37.952
And what happened there was an attempt to,
2376
01:53:37.952 --> 01:53:39.530
kind of a political coup
2377
01:53:39.530 --> 01:53:43.060
and you\'re using a majoritarian positions
2378
01:53:43.060 --> 01:53:45.520
to bring about that kind of change.
2379
01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:49.140
Which I found rather menacing and disturbing.
2380
01:53:49.140 --> 01:53:50.670
Because by tradition,
2381
01:53:50.670 --> 01:53:53.360
the ANC has been one of free engagement
2382
01:53:53.360 --> 01:53:54.290
and free debate.
2383
01:53:54.290 --> 01:53:56.133
2384
01:53:56.133 --> 01:53:56.966
2385
01:53:56.966 --> 01:53:58.460
2386
01:53:58.460 --> 01:54:00.805
before you can call me out of order.
2387
01:54:00.805 --> 01:54:02.271
2388
01:54:02.271 --> 01:54:03.104
2389
01:54:03.104 --> 01:54:04.393
2390
01:54:04.393 --> 01:54:05.226
please sit down.
2391
01:54:05.226 --> 01:54:06.059
I beg you.
2392
01:54:06.059 --> 01:54:08.620
2393
01:54:08.620 --> 01:54:11.020
counting will take place electronically
2394
01:54:11.020 --> 01:54:12.183
as the fist end.
2395
01:54:13.111 --> 01:54:14.914
(crowd cheering)
2396
01:54:14.914 --> 01:54:15.950 line:15%
2397
01:54:15.950 --> 01:54:18.330 line:15%
that at least a section of conference
2398
01:54:19.860 --> 01:54:21.123 line:15%
would behave in this way.
2399
01:54:21.123 --> 01:54:23.300
And what I didn\'t anticipate
2400
01:54:24.150 --> 01:54:24.990
was that that
2401
01:54:24.990 --> 01:54:27.290
would be a very big number.
2402
01:54:27.290 --> 01:54:28.153
Bigger than the,
2403
01:54:28.153 --> 01:54:33.035
what I would say the more rational people.
2404
01:54:33.035 --> 01:54:33.868
2405
01:54:33.868 --> 01:54:35.363
do you want us to intimidate you also
2406
01:54:35.363 --> 01:54:36.730
comrade Terror so that you go back
2407
01:54:36.730 --> 01:54:38.357
to the initial motion?
2408
01:54:39.240 --> 01:54:41.276
2409
01:54:41.276 --> 01:54:46.276
and so I had to confront the reality.
2410
01:54:46.420 --> 01:54:49.340
That our movement had ceased to be
2411
01:54:49.340 --> 01:54:52.303
what I had always understood it to be.
2412
01:54:52.303 --> 01:54:54.830
I felt that what had happened there
2413
01:54:54.830 --> 01:54:58.010
was not just an emotional reaction accident.
2414
01:54:58.010 --> 01:55:00.220
That now it seemed that a particular
2415
01:55:00.220 --> 01:55:03.240
culture had taken hold
2416
01:55:03.240 --> 01:55:05.501
of the structures of the ANC.
2417
01:55:05.501 --> 01:55:07.400
(applause)
2418
01:55:07.400 --> 01:55:08.740
2419
01:55:08.740 --> 01:55:10.630
had one last opportunity `
2420
01:55:10.630 --> 01:55:13.100
to win the support of the crowd.
2421
01:55:13.100 --> 01:55:14.720
This was his chance to deal
2422
01:55:14.720 --> 01:55:16.640
with the growing rift head on
2423
01:55:16.640 --> 01:55:18.955
and argue his own case.
2424
01:55:18.955 --> 01:55:21.205
(cheering)
2425
01:55:26.655 --> 01:55:30.070
(speaking in foreign language)
2426
01:55:30.070 --> 01:55:32.870
2427
01:55:32.870 --> 01:55:36.150
That we\'ve taken all the necessary decisions,
2428
01:55:36.150 --> 01:55:39.830
focused on the acceleration of our advance
2429
01:55:39.830 --> 01:55:41.290
towards achievement of the goal
2430
01:55:41.290 --> 01:55:43.400
of a better life for all.
2431
01:55:43.400 --> 01:55:44.937
2432
01:55:44.937 --> 01:55:47.770
President Mbeki before,
2433
01:55:47.770 --> 01:55:50.280
that my little bit of advice was,
2434
01:55:50.280 --> 01:55:51.163
President.
2435
01:55:52.200 --> 01:55:55.460
Try to deal with the issues
2436
01:55:55.460 --> 01:55:57.940
of the concerns of people
2437
01:55:57.940 --> 01:55:59.910
in a personable way.
2438
01:55:59.910 --> 01:56:02.610
These crucial issues which are clearly
2439
01:56:02.610 --> 01:56:04.817
bothering the delegates
2440
01:56:04.817 --> 01:56:07.260
and the question of your so called
2441
01:56:07.260 --> 01:56:09.930
centralization and aloofness etc.
2442
01:56:09.930 --> 01:56:11.700
This is where you really have to
2443
01:56:11.700 --> 01:56:13.580
look people in the eye
2444
01:56:13.580 --> 01:56:16.450
and tell it as you can.
2445
01:56:16.450 --> 01:56:18.163
I did say that to him.
2446
01:56:19.250 --> 01:56:20.083
2447
01:56:20.083 --> 01:56:22.216
we have to succeed in our objective.
2448
01:56:22.216 --> 01:56:23.597
2449
01:56:23.597 --> 01:56:25.486
achievements of government.
2450
01:56:25.486 --> 01:56:26.319
But maybe there should have been
2451
01:56:26.319 --> 01:56:28.000
a bit more passion in it.
2452
01:56:28.000 --> 01:56:30.110
But that\'s the nature of the person.
2453
01:56:30.110 --> 01:56:33.257
He doesn\'t make concessions at that time right.
2454
01:56:33.257 --> 01:56:34.590
People may not have liked it
2455
01:56:34.590 --> 01:56:36.860
but that\'s the measure of the man.
2456
01:56:36.860 --> 01:56:37.910
The nature of the man
2457
01:56:39.053 --> 01:56:41.070
was reflected in his presidential speech.
2458
01:56:41.070 --> 01:56:43.500
2459
01:56:43.500 --> 01:56:47.470
Increased investment of a percentage of JDP.
2460
01:56:47.470 --> 01:56:52.110
From 15% in 2004 to 25% in 2014.
2461
01:56:52.110 --> 01:56:57.110
2462
01:56:58.550 --> 01:57:02.000
and a wanting to establish the record.
2463
01:57:02.000 --> 01:57:03.830
Which tends to come across
2464
01:57:04.710 --> 01:57:09.490
in detail and rather turgid and dull
2465
01:57:09.490 --> 01:57:11.830
and over the heads of the mood
2466
01:57:11.830 --> 01:57:12.663
of delegates.
2467
01:57:14.620 --> 01:57:15.516
2468
01:57:15.516 --> 01:57:17.766
(applause)
2469
01:57:28.200 --> 01:57:30.497
2470
01:57:30.497 --> 01:57:33.547
But his supporters would not give up the fight.
2471
01:57:33.547 --> 01:57:35.714
(singing)
2472
01:57:45.470 --> 01:57:47.730
The freedom sign became their slogan
2473
01:57:47.730 --> 01:57:50.290
that was contested at each and every turn
2474
01:57:50.290 --> 01:57:52.690
by the signs of change from the Zuma supporters.
2475
01:57:58.620 --> 01:58:01.520
But not once did the heated conversation
2476
01:58:01.520 --> 01:58:03.053
erupt into violence.
2477
01:58:04.350 --> 01:58:06.473
The democratic game had triumphed.
2478
01:58:09.220 --> 01:58:10.430
2479
01:58:10.430 --> 01:58:12.650
all of us very apprehensive.
2480
01:58:12.650 --> 01:58:14.320
Very expectant.
2481
01:58:14.320 --> 01:58:16.060 line:15%
But of course very tense
2482
01:58:16.060 --> 01:58:18.860 line:15%
because it\'s always tense.
2483
01:58:18.860 --> 01:58:21.563 line:15%
None of us knew what the result was.
2484
01:58:22.843 --> 01:58:25.570
2485
01:58:25.570 --> 01:58:28.003
comrade Thabo Mbeki,
2486
01:58:28.003 --> 01:58:28.836
1505.
2487
01:58:31.161 --> 01:58:32.804
(applause)
2488
01:58:32.804 --> 01:58:36.480
2489
01:58:36.480 --> 01:58:37.670
2490
01:58:37.670 --> 01:58:39.650
2491
01:58:39.650 --> 01:58:42.070
and then said Jacob Zuma.
2492
01:58:42.070 --> 01:58:44.180
2493
01:58:45.210 --> 01:58:48.423
by comrade Jacob Zuma,
2494
01:58:50.045 --> 01:58:50.878
2329.
2495
01:58:52.252 --> 01:58:54.770
(cheering)
2496
01:58:54.770 --> 01:58:57.221
2497
01:58:57.221 --> 01:58:58.865
and I was part of that eruption.
2498
01:58:58.865 --> 01:59:01.115
(chanting)
2499
01:59:09.900 --> 01:59:12.510
2500
01:59:12.510 --> 01:59:14.550
no one has won,
2501
01:59:14.550 --> 01:59:16.100
no one has lost.
2502
01:59:16.100 --> 01:59:17.974
The ANC has won.
2503
01:59:17.974 --> 01:59:19.603
(applause)
2504
01:59:19.603 --> 01:59:22.610
We cannot have a Zuma camp
2505
01:59:22.610 --> 01:59:24.933
or an ANC or Mbeki camp.
2506
01:59:27.040 --> 01:59:28.223
There is only one ANC
2507
01:59:29.267 --> 01:59:33.030
and I accept the mandate you have given us
2508
01:59:33.030 --> 01:59:35.060
with the full understanding
2509
01:59:35.060 --> 01:59:38.102
that you can withdraw it at any time.
2510
01:59:38.102 --> 01:59:40.352
(applause)
2511
01:59:42.199 --> 01:59:43.032
Amandla!
2512
01:59:44.332 --> 01:59:46.499
(singing)
2513
01:59:50.450 --> 01:59:53.557
2514
01:59:53.557 --> 01:59:54.890
Umshini wami at Polokwane
2515
01:59:54.890 --> 01:59:57.830
when he finished his acceptance speech.
2516
01:59:57.830 --> 01:59:59.063
It came from the floor.
2517
02:00:00.260 --> 02:00:02.150
He had already left the podium
2518
02:00:03.060 --> 02:00:04.950
and the comrades who were next to him
2519
02:00:04.950 --> 02:00:06.670 line:15%
forced him back up and pushed him
2520
02:00:06.670 --> 02:00:07.810 line:15%
back to the microphone
2521
02:00:07.810 --> 02:00:09.490 line:15%
to go and sing.
2522
02:00:09.490 --> 02:00:10.840 line:15%
And he sang it with a passion
2523
02:00:11.956 --> 02:00:13.256
that was painful to watch.
2524
02:00:16.010 --> 02:00:17.443
If not put you right.
2525
02:00:18.610 --> 02:00:20.937
Don\'t be ashamed of singing
2526
02:00:20.937 --> 02:00:23.126
Umshini wami to the world.
2527
02:00:23.126 --> 02:00:25.293
(singing)
2528
02:00:36.799 --> 02:00:40.716
(speaking in foreign language)
2529
02:00:46.170 --> 02:00:50.523
Then he sang Oliver Tambo Bambi Isandla Sam.
2530
02:00:53.226 --> 02:00:54.570
And I think a lot of people missed
2531
02:00:54.570 --> 02:00:57.100
the symbolism of that choice of song.
2532
02:00:59.455 --> 02:01:01.700
He was saying the legacy
2533
02:01:01.700 --> 02:01:06.036
you gave us O.R. is alive and well and safe.
2534
02:01:06.036 --> 02:01:08.203
(singing)
2535
02:01:09.400 --> 02:01:11.510
Meaning that the digression
2536
02:01:11.510 --> 02:01:13.050
that we almost took,
2537
02:01:13.050 --> 02:01:15.093
where we\'d give the ANC to the elites,
2538
02:01:16.840 --> 02:01:19.462
that dream was shut down.
2539
02:01:19.462 --> 02:01:21.629
(singing)
2540
02:01:31.660 --> 02:01:34.380
2541
02:01:34.380 --> 02:01:36.530 line:15%
the pro poor policy people won
2542
02:01:36.530 --> 02:01:39.200 line:15%
is one of those historical,
2543
02:01:39.200 --> 02:01:43.100 line:15%
imaginative leaps which has no basis in fact
2544
02:01:43.100 --> 02:01:44.350
or truth.
2545
02:01:44.350 --> 02:01:46.090
Nothing of the kind happened there.
2546
02:01:46.090 --> 02:01:48.860
I mean it was a displacement.
2547
02:01:48.860 --> 02:01:51.480
A displacement of one group of people
2548
02:01:51.480 --> 02:01:52.737
who took part
2549
02:01:52.737 --> 02:01:54.300
and the enormous role they played
2550
02:01:54.300 --> 02:01:56.090
in the struggle liberation
2551
02:01:56.090 --> 02:01:57.680
and the reconstruction of South Africa.
2552
02:01:57.680 --> 02:01:59.100
And they were displaced
2553
02:01:59.100 --> 02:02:00.932
by another group of people.
2554
02:02:00.932 --> 02:02:04.310
That\'s all that happened in Polokwane.
2555
02:02:04.310 --> 02:02:05.792
(upbeat music)
2556
02:02:05.792 --> 02:02:06.625
2557
02:02:06.625 --> 02:02:08.020
about the dream and the policy
2558
02:02:08.020 --> 02:02:09.610
for which the ANC had fought
2559
02:02:09.610 --> 02:02:10.673
long and hard.
2560
02:02:12.720 --> 02:02:13.553
It was about the interests
2561
02:02:13.553 --> 02:02:15.010
of the struggle heroes
2562
02:02:15.010 --> 02:02:17.563
who today are the country\'s political elite.
2563
02:02:20.650 --> 02:02:23.110
Zuma had won a decisive victory
2564
02:02:23.110 --> 02:02:24.950
but instead of celebrating
2565
02:02:24.950 --> 02:02:27.633
he immediately came under attack from the media.
2566
02:02:29.460 --> 02:02:30.420
Once again,
2567
02:02:30.420 --> 02:02:33.230
his legal problems stole the limelight.
2568
02:02:33.230 --> 02:02:34.063
2569
02:02:34.063 --> 02:02:35.610
let me be the first from our ranks
2570
02:02:35.610 --> 02:02:36.480
to congratulate you.
2571
02:02:36.480 --> 02:02:37.510
Well done.
2572
02:02:37.510 --> 02:02:38.540
Typical question,
2573
02:02:38.540 --> 02:02:39.390
first question.
2574
02:02:39.390 --> 02:02:41.720
The NPA says it\'s ready to charge you.
2575
02:02:41.720 --> 02:02:43.290
What is your reaction?
2576
02:02:43.290 --> 02:02:45.367
Are you looking forward to your day in court?
2577
02:02:45.367 --> 02:02:47.413
2578
02:02:47.413 --> 02:02:49.020
what is your response about the thing?
2579
02:02:49.020 --> 02:02:52.610
The charges that have been made to desert.
2580
02:02:52.610 --> 02:02:53.900
What charges?
2581
02:02:53.900 --> 02:02:56.450
I says first time I hear can\'t comment.
2582
02:02:56.450 --> 02:02:58.017
I\'ll call them please when I get there.
2583
02:02:58.017 --> 02:02:59.200
2584
02:02:59.200 --> 02:03:00.510
the announcement that they made,
2585
02:03:00.510 --> 02:03:02.370
that they\'re announcing publicly
2586
02:03:02.370 --> 02:03:04.170
that charges are imminent?
2587
02:03:04.170 --> 02:03:05.543
2588
02:03:05.543 --> 02:03:07.293
that I\'d like to engage that issue.
2589
02:03:10.490 --> 02:03:11.323
They were rushing,
2590
02:03:11.323 --> 02:03:12.920
they did not even go for holidays
2591
02:03:12.920 --> 02:03:14.667
so that they can charge me.
2592
02:03:14.667 --> 02:03:16.030
And they could not even tell
2593
02:03:16.030 --> 02:03:18.510
my lawyers that they are charging me.
2594
02:03:18.510 --> 02:03:20.190
They delivered the papers in Johannesburg
2595
02:03:20.190 --> 02:03:22.550
to the bodyguards at the gate like here.
2596
02:03:22.550 --> 02:03:23.383
Boop.
2597
02:03:24.950 --> 02:03:26.330
When must I appear in court?
2598
02:03:26.330 --> 02:03:27.654
They say no no,
2599
02:03:27.654 --> 02:03:28.487
we are charging you now,
2600
02:03:28.487 --> 02:03:29.320
but you will appear in court
2601
02:03:29.320 --> 02:03:30.400
at the end of the year.
2602
02:03:31.370 --> 02:03:33.050
I think I have a problem with that.
2603
02:03:33.050 --> 02:03:35.074
It gives deep suspicion.
2604
02:03:35.074 --> 02:03:36.130
(upbeat music)
2605
02:03:36.130 --> 02:03:37.190
2606
02:03:37.190 --> 02:03:38.910
the two men did not end
2607
02:03:38.910 --> 02:03:39.743
at Polokwane.
2608
02:03:41.120 --> 02:03:42.110
Although Zuma had won
2609
02:03:42.110 --> 02:03:44.160
the presidency of the ANC,
2610
02:03:44.160 --> 02:03:45.860
the key roles within the government
2611
02:03:45.860 --> 02:03:47.640
of South Africa remained
2612
02:03:47.640 --> 02:03:50.410
in the hands of Mbeki loyalists.
2613
02:03:50.410 --> 02:03:52.740
Zuma supporters worried that they
2614
02:03:52.740 --> 02:03:55.010
could use state institutions
2615
02:03:55.010 --> 02:03:56.440
to block him from ascending
2616
02:03:56.440 --> 02:03:58.043
to the country\'s top job.
2617
02:03:59.500 --> 02:04:01.310
2618
02:04:01.310 --> 02:04:02.620
when he lost,
2619
02:04:02.620 --> 02:04:05.220 line:15%
made wild statements that they would
2620
02:04:05.220 --> 02:04:06.910 line:15%
go on campaigning for him
2621
02:04:08.376 --> 02:04:09.670 line:15%
at the next conference.
2622
02:04:09.670 --> 02:04:11.820
And then they were reminded that,
2623
02:04:11.820 --> 02:04:13.360
listen chaps,
2624
02:04:13.360 --> 02:04:14.780
in the traditional ANC
2625
02:04:14.780 --> 02:04:15.613
you debate,
2626
02:04:15.613 --> 02:04:16.560
you battle it out.
2627
02:04:16.560 --> 02:04:17.700
Policies are adopted,
2628
02:04:17.700 --> 02:04:19.720
you now spend your time
2629
02:04:19.720 --> 02:04:21.233
implementing those policies.
2630
02:04:22.830 --> 02:04:24.985
2631
02:04:24.985 --> 02:04:26.835
the unity of the ANC was safeguarded.
2632
02:04:27.800 --> 02:04:29.479
But Zuma\'s fervent supporters,
2633
02:04:29.479 --> 02:04:31.390
the ANC Youth League,
2634
02:04:31.390 --> 02:04:32.770
led by their new president,
2635
02:04:32.770 --> 02:04:34.040
Julius Malema,
2636
02:04:34.040 --> 02:04:35.303
were unconvinced.
2637
02:04:37.408 --> 02:04:39.442
2638
02:04:39.442 --> 02:04:42.312 line:15%
We are prepared to take up arms
2639
02:04:42.312 --> 02:04:45.454 line:15%
and kill for Zuma.
2640
02:04:45.454 --> 02:04:46.621
Thank you all.
2641
02:04:48.435 --> 02:04:50.580
2642
02:04:50.580 --> 02:04:51.707 line:15%
I couldn\'t believe
2643
02:04:51.707 --> 02:04:56.707 line:15%
that anybody could say something like this
2644
02:04:57.360 --> 02:04:58.730
in the name of the organization
2645
02:04:58.730 --> 02:04:59.710
to which I belong.
2646
02:04:59.710 --> 02:05:02.420
Which means that now it\'s a dictatorship.
2647
02:05:02.420 --> 02:05:04.490
You turned up in the situation of Zimbabwe.
2648
02:05:04.490 --> 02:05:06.480
And that\'s where this thing was heading to
2649
02:05:06.480 --> 02:05:08.310
if we don\'t stop it.
2650
02:05:08.310 --> 02:05:10.140
2651
02:05:10.140 --> 02:05:12.730
sent shivers throughout the country.
2652
02:05:12.730 --> 02:05:15.830
Fear prevailed that the ANC\'s mild reaction
2653
02:05:15.830 --> 02:05:18.850
to the statement would open the floodgates
2654
02:05:18.850 --> 02:05:20.191
to supporters taking the law
2655
02:05:20.191 --> 02:05:22.123
into their own hands.
2656
02:05:23.500 --> 02:05:26.470
But just as the crisis was at its peak,
2657
02:05:26.470 --> 02:05:28.380
the summons that Zuma had received
2658
02:05:28.380 --> 02:05:30.869
at Polokwane nine months earlier,
2659
02:05:30.869 --> 02:05:34.023
meant that once again he was due in court.
2660
02:05:34.940 --> 02:05:38.770
The Zuma legal saga was now into its third year
2661
02:05:38.770 --> 02:05:41.003
and the entire country held its breath.
2662
02:05:42.590 --> 02:05:44.290
2663
02:05:44.290 --> 02:05:45.550
after all these proceedings,
2664
02:05:45.550 --> 02:05:47.500
he and those who wished him to occupy
2665
02:05:47.500 --> 02:05:50.250
a leadership role in the ANC
2666
02:05:50.250 --> 02:05:51.150
were quote,
2667
02:05:51.150 --> 02:05:54.190
concerned about the criminal charges
2668
02:05:54.190 --> 02:05:56.640
being relaunched at a time
2669
02:05:56.640 --> 02:06:00.030
which was critical in the political process.
2670
02:06:00.030 --> 02:06:01.100
And so,
2671
02:06:01.100 --> 02:06:03.980
hamper his election as ANC president.
2672
02:06:03.980 --> 02:06:05.430
There does seem to be merit
2673
02:06:05.430 --> 02:06:07.390
in that contention.
2674
02:06:07.390 --> 02:06:08.850
2675
02:06:08.850 --> 02:06:11.210 line:15%
that there are grounds to believe
2676
02:06:11.210 --> 02:06:13.760 line:15%
that there is a conspiracy.
2677
02:06:13.760 --> 02:06:15.940 line:15%
And conspiracies have to be dealt with
2678
02:06:15.940 --> 02:06:17.420
in the political realm
2679
02:06:17.420 --> 02:06:19.750
and not in the judicial realm.
2680
02:06:19.750 --> 02:06:22.070
He alleged that Mbeki indeed
2681
02:06:22.070 --> 02:06:24.710
meddled with the judiciary system
2682
02:06:24.710 --> 02:06:26.520
in order to achieve
2683
02:06:26.520 --> 02:06:28.420
political gains.
2684
02:06:28.420 --> 02:06:32.010
All of which was not asked of him.
2685
02:06:32.010 --> 02:06:35.160
All of which is open to contestation.
2686
02:06:35.160 --> 02:06:36.630
2687
02:06:36.630 --> 02:06:38.850
between the applicant and the president
2688
02:06:38.850 --> 02:06:39.820
for the leadership.
2689
02:06:39.820 --> 02:06:41.550
Is it conceivable the president
2690
02:06:41.550 --> 02:06:43.400
did not know?
2691
02:06:43.400 --> 02:06:45.630
I am therefore not convinced
2692
02:06:45.630 --> 02:06:47.589
that the applicant was incorrect
2693
02:06:47.589 --> 02:06:49.960
in averring political meddling
2694
02:06:49.960 --> 02:06:51.513
in his prosecution.
2695
02:06:52.980 --> 02:06:54.416
Court will rise.
2696
02:06:54.416 --> 02:06:56.666
(applause)
2697
02:06:58.780 --> 02:07:01.870
2698
02:07:01.870 --> 02:07:04.660
to get rid of Mbeki all along.
2699
02:07:04.660 --> 02:07:05.896
Since Polokwane.
2700
02:07:05.896 --> 02:07:09.970
And the judge provided them with a cover
2701
02:07:09.970 --> 02:07:12.347
to commit what is basically
2702
02:07:12.347 --> 02:07:14.730
an act of political vengeance.
2703
02:07:14.730 --> 02:07:17.313
(upbeat music)
2704
02:07:22.113 --> 02:07:23.420
2705
02:07:23.420 --> 02:07:26.023
Thabo Mbeki and his people.
2706
02:07:27.679 --> 02:07:31.283
The Regional Executive Committee of the ANC
2707
02:07:31.283 --> 02:07:33.733
has got a responsibility
2708
02:07:33.733 --> 02:07:36.444
to recall Mbeki or else
2709
02:07:36.444 --> 02:07:38.740
we will recall them.
2710
02:07:38.740 --> 02:07:40.220
2711
02:07:40.220 --> 02:07:41.053
They rushed into
2712
02:07:41.053 --> 02:07:43.300
the National Executive Committee meeting.
2713
02:07:43.300 --> 02:07:45.370
They welcomed that outcome
2714
02:07:45.370 --> 02:07:48.337
with glee and they were invited
2715
02:07:48.337 --> 02:07:49.523
to the meeting.
2716
02:07:50.380 --> 02:07:51.850
And Jacob Zuma,
2717
02:07:51.850 --> 02:07:53.060
Kgalema Motlanthe
2718
02:07:53.060 --> 02:07:54.880
they told us that they had
2719
02:07:54.880 --> 02:07:58.000
looked at the judgment.
2720
02:07:58.000 --> 02:07:59.310
They had now decided that
2721
02:08:00.700 --> 02:08:03.570
the president must resign.
2722
02:08:03.570 --> 02:08:04.710
I then asked them
2723
02:08:04.710 --> 02:08:06.440
if they could give us a copy
2724
02:08:07.614 --> 02:08:11.480
of the resolution or of the decision.
2725
02:08:11.480 --> 02:08:14.743
Maybe that might throw a better light.
2726
02:08:15.750 --> 02:08:17.820
They looked at their fingers
2727
02:08:17.820 --> 02:08:19.420
because they didn\'t have a copy.
2728
02:08:21.880 --> 02:08:23.300
2729
02:08:23.300 --> 02:08:25.460
to resign as president of the Republic,
2730
02:08:25.460 --> 02:08:26.330
following the decision
2731
02:08:26.330 --> 02:08:27.700
of the National Executive Committee
2732
02:08:27.700 --> 02:08:28.643
of the ANC.
2733
02:08:29.960 --> 02:08:31.240
I would like to say
2734
02:08:32.120 --> 02:08:35.020
that gloom and despondency
2735
02:08:35.020 --> 02:08:36.823
have never defeated adversity.
2736
02:08:38.300 --> 02:08:42.310
Trying times need courage and resilience.
2737
02:08:42.310 --> 02:08:43.220
And I trust that we will
2738
02:08:43.220 --> 02:08:46.265
continue to strive to act in unity.
2739
02:08:46.265 --> 02:08:48.360
To accelerate the advance
2740
02:08:48.360 --> 02:08:52.123
toward achievement of our shared national goals.
2741
02:08:54.360 --> 02:08:56.050
2742
02:08:56.050 --> 02:08:57.180
seven or eight months
2743
02:08:57.180 --> 02:08:59.440
before the end of his term
2744
02:08:59.440 --> 02:09:01.490
is a recipe for disaster.
2745
02:09:01.490 --> 02:09:03.640
The disaster didn\'t happen this time,
2746
02:09:03.640 --> 02:09:05.220
partly because,
2747
02:09:05.220 --> 02:09:07.760
in a very historic manner,
2748
02:09:07.760 --> 02:09:12.000
Mbeki offered himself as the sacrificial lamb
2749
02:09:13.570 --> 02:09:14.533
to the party.
2750
02:09:16.058 --> 02:09:16.891
The party he has been a member of
2751
02:09:16.891 --> 02:09:19.970
since he was 14 years old.
2752
02:09:19.970 --> 02:09:23.480
But another leader could have responded differently
2753
02:09:23.480 --> 02:09:25.900
and we would have found ourselves in trouble.
2754
02:09:25.900 --> 02:09:27.510
In most African countries,
2755
02:09:27.510 --> 02:09:28.500
historically,
2756
02:09:28.500 --> 02:09:30.610
struggles of succession
2757
02:09:30.610 --> 02:09:31.990
have been at the heart
2758
02:09:32.850 --> 02:09:34.330
of political disorder.
2759
02:09:34.330 --> 02:09:37.570
And if that is not properly dealt with,
2760
02:09:37.570 --> 02:09:39.803
South Africa is not out of the loop.
2761
02:09:42.562 --> 02:09:43.610
2762
02:09:43.610 --> 02:09:46.700
was delegated to the ANC\'s deputy president,
2763
02:09:46.700 --> 02:09:48.400
Kgalema Motlanthe.
2764
02:09:48.400 --> 02:09:50.440
The transfer of power was done
2765
02:09:50.440 --> 02:09:52.170
in an orderly manner.
2766
02:09:52.170 --> 02:09:53.570
But the abrupt move
2767
02:09:53.570 --> 02:09:55.140
still came as a shock,
2768
02:09:55.140 --> 02:09:57.040
both inside South Africa
2769
02:09:57.040 --> 02:09:59.020
and internationally.
2770
02:09:59.020 --> 02:10:00.170
Internally,
2771
02:10:00.170 --> 02:10:02.283
the unthinkable was about to happen.
2772
02:10:03.300 --> 02:10:06.980 line:15%
2773
02:10:06.980 --> 02:10:08.303 line:15%
pillars of the ANC.
2774
02:10:09.380 --> 02:10:10.923
So whatever the conflict,
2775
02:10:13.030 --> 02:10:16.470
you retain unity of the movement.
2776
02:10:16.470 --> 02:10:17.860
2777
02:10:17.860 --> 02:10:19.690
of the ANC had seen it
2778
02:10:19.690 --> 02:10:21.370
through many crises.
2779
02:10:21.370 --> 02:10:23.480
The movement\'s insistence to remain
2780
02:10:23.480 --> 02:10:25.550
a broad church was a throwback
2781
02:10:25.550 --> 02:10:28.290
from its days as a liberation movement.
2782
02:10:28.290 --> 02:10:30.920
2783
02:10:30.920 --> 02:10:33.350
the components of the liberation movement,
2784
02:10:33.350 --> 02:10:34.603
people get nightmares.
2785
02:10:36.330 --> 02:10:38.233
You really freak them out completely.
2786
02:10:39.310 --> 02:10:41.530
2787
02:10:41.530 --> 02:10:44.600
the internal sores were festering.
2788
02:10:44.600 --> 02:10:46.870
Old comrades were drifting apart,
2789
02:10:46.870 --> 02:10:49.210
but no one dared to question
2790
02:10:49.210 --> 02:10:51.377
or propose change in the very nature
2791
02:10:51.377 --> 02:10:53.983
of the ANC\'s organization.
2792
02:10:55.350 --> 02:10:58.212 line:15%
2793
02:10:58.212 --> 02:10:59.640 line:15%
is kind of a romantic attachment
2794
02:10:59.640 --> 02:11:02.090 line:15%
to a past that doesn\'t exist anymore.
2795
02:11:02.090 --> 02:11:03.200
In fact it can be
2796
02:11:03.200 --> 02:11:05.037
a philosophical manipulation.
2797
02:11:06.237 --> 02:11:08.281
And I think that this higher status idea
2798
02:11:08.281 --> 02:11:09.280
should be removed,
2799
02:11:09.280 --> 02:11:10.683
it\'s dangerous for democracy.
2800
02:11:11.520 --> 02:11:13.850
2801
02:11:13.850 --> 02:11:16.840
especially those who had sided with Mbeki
2802
02:11:16.840 --> 02:11:18.490
had been toeing the party line
2803
02:11:18.490 --> 02:11:20.150
with growing discomfort
2804
02:11:20.150 --> 02:11:20.983
since Polokwane.
2805
02:11:22.197 --> 02:11:24.660
Malema\'s words widened the breach
2806
02:11:24.660 --> 02:11:27.523
but Mbeki\'s dismissal was the last straw.
2807
02:11:28.870 --> 02:11:30.510
In a dramatic move,
2808
02:11:30.510 --> 02:11:32.913
Lekota decided to break the taboo.
2809
02:11:34.080 --> 02:11:35.580
2810
02:11:35.580 --> 02:11:38.046
we are serving today divorce papers.
2811
02:11:38.046 --> 02:11:39.870
(laughter)
2812
02:11:39.870 --> 02:11:41.910
2813
02:11:41.910 --> 02:11:44.630
in his disapproval of Jacob Zuma
2814
02:11:44.630 --> 02:11:47.640
and the new ANC leadership.
2815
02:11:47.640 --> 02:11:50.793
After 97 years of uninterrupted unity,
2816
02:11:50.793 --> 02:11:54.730
Lekota openly proposed the unthinkable.
2817
02:11:54.730 --> 02:11:56.460
Splitting the ANC
2818
02:11:56.460 --> 02:11:59.390
and creating a rival political party
2819
02:11:59.390 --> 02:12:00.940
that would contest the upcoming
2820
02:12:00.940 --> 02:12:03.963
general elections that were only months away.
2821
02:12:07.120 --> 02:12:08.810 line:15%
2822
02:12:08.810 --> 02:12:10.023 line:15%
for 31 years,
2823
02:12:10.870 --> 02:12:12.000 line:15%
it\'s not an easy thing.
2824
02:12:12.000 --> 02:12:14.290
You can\'t take that decision easily.
2825
02:12:14.290 --> 02:12:17.080
But I am not prepared to be led by leaders
2826
02:12:17.080 --> 02:12:20.460
who do not commit to equality before the law.
2827
02:12:20.460 --> 02:12:21.293
For the me,
2828
02:12:21.293 --> 02:12:23.293
the African National Congress is not a t-shirt.
2829
02:12:24.490 --> 02:12:27.690
That\'s written African National Congress.
2830
02:12:27.690 --> 02:12:29.340
The African National Congress for me,
2831
02:12:29.340 --> 02:12:33.023
is its policies and commitment to those policies.
2832
02:12:35.123 --> 02:12:36.350
(chanting)
2833
02:12:36.350 --> 02:12:38.360
2834
02:12:38.360 --> 02:12:39.940
from the ANC,
2835
02:12:39.940 --> 02:12:42.370
various prominent leaders resigned
2836
02:12:42.370 --> 02:12:43.783
and joined his ranks.
2837
02:12:45.410 --> 02:12:48.050
The ANC panicked and attempted to block
2838
02:12:48.050 --> 02:12:49.973
the creation of the new party.
2839
02:12:51.730 --> 02:12:53.880
However the opposition parties
2840
02:12:53.880 --> 02:12:56.900
welcomed the move as a hope for the future.
2841
02:12:56.900 --> 02:12:59.930
2842
02:12:59.930 --> 02:13:01.660
2843
02:13:01.660 --> 02:13:04.360
for me to be here today
2844
02:13:04.360 --> 02:13:07.713
to witness the breaking down of the ANC.
2845
02:13:09.160 --> 02:13:12.110
2846
02:13:12.110 --> 02:13:14.770
who threaten to kill other people
2847
02:13:14.770 --> 02:13:17.200
because they don\'t agree with them.
2848
02:13:17.200 --> 02:13:18.330
2849
02:13:18.330 --> 02:13:21.820
or COPE joined South Africa\'s 136
2850
02:13:21.820 --> 02:13:23.810
registered opposition parties
2851
02:13:24.990 --> 02:13:27.270
vying to diminish the ANC\'s firm
2852
02:13:27.270 --> 02:13:28.323
grip on power.
2853
02:13:31.010 --> 02:13:32.950
The challenge was daunting.
2854
02:13:32.950 --> 02:13:35.410
But unlike other opposition parties,
2855
02:13:35.410 --> 02:13:37.383
the last born had a trump card.
2856
02:13:39.227 --> 02:13:40.940
2857
02:13:40.940 --> 02:13:41.870
2858
02:13:41.870 --> 02:13:44.590
of the new party had fought apartheid
2859
02:13:44.590 --> 02:13:46.660
from inside South Africa
2860
02:13:46.660 --> 02:13:48.090
during the violent era
2861
02:13:48.090 --> 02:13:50.837
of ungovernability in the 1980\'s.
2862
02:13:51.860 --> 02:13:53.940
Under the banner of the UDF,
2863
02:13:53.940 --> 02:13:56.170
they had led civil disobedience
2864
02:13:56.170 --> 02:13:58.710
and Lekota himself had spent years
2865
02:13:58.710 --> 02:14:01.110
on Robben Island with Nelson Mandela.
2866
02:14:01.110 --> 02:14:02.080
2867
02:14:02.080 --> 02:14:03.700
I like all of the other parties
2868
02:14:03.700 --> 02:14:05.050
whose history was not the history
2869
02:14:05.050 --> 02:14:06.110
of struggle.
2870
02:14:06.110 --> 02:14:07.400
Very many of us have got
2871
02:14:07.400 --> 02:14:09.780
long track records that we can show.
2872
02:14:09.780 --> 02:14:14.030
We present a really strong voice of opposition.
2873
02:14:14.030 --> 02:14:16.090
At the African National Congress.
2874
02:14:16.090 --> 02:14:17.490
Public meetings of COPE
2875
02:14:17.490 --> 02:14:18.323
are regularly,
2876
02:14:18.323 --> 02:14:20.100
violently disrupted by people.
2877
02:14:20.100 --> 02:14:22.890
2878
02:14:22.890 --> 02:14:25.060
a black sheep in the ANC.
2879
02:14:25.060 --> 02:14:27.460
He was the chairperson of the ANC.
2880
02:14:27.460 --> 02:14:29.230
Minister of Defense.
2881
02:14:29.230 --> 02:14:34.230 line:15%
The fact that the current elite within COPE,
2882
02:14:34.240 --> 02:14:37.600 line:15%
is in fact an offshoot of the old elite.
2883
02:14:37.600 --> 02:14:42.600
Diminishes somewhat its chances to reclaim
2884
02:14:43.490 --> 02:14:45.840
its moral innocence.
2885
02:14:45.840 --> 02:14:47.803
There is no moral innocence there.
2886
02:14:47.803 --> 02:14:49.760
Because most of them were involved
2887
02:14:49.760 --> 02:14:51.890
in the politics of the recent past.
2888
02:14:51.890 --> 02:14:53.010
2889
02:14:53.010 --> 02:14:54.730
we have lost faith in the dream
2890
02:14:54.730 --> 02:14:57.290
of a vibrant rainbow nation,
2891
02:14:57.290 --> 02:14:59.247
announced by Nelson Mandela,
2892
02:14:59.247 --> 02:15:01.700
lately in increasing numbers.
2893
02:15:01.700 --> 02:15:02.960
That where they were daily
2894
02:15:02.960 --> 02:15:04.660
getting disillusioned with the government
2895
02:15:04.660 --> 02:15:05.493
of the day.
2896
02:15:06.330 --> 02:15:08.330
The advent of The Congress of the People
2897
02:15:09.250 --> 02:15:11.677
has revived their hopes.
2898
02:15:11.677 --> 02:15:12.720
(applause)
2899
02:15:12.720 --> 02:15:13.880
2900
02:15:13.880 --> 02:15:16.150
appealing fundamentally to people
2901
02:15:16.150 --> 02:15:18.850
who are discontented within the ANC
2902
02:15:18.850 --> 02:15:23.280
or the emerging professional black middle class.
2903
02:15:23.280 --> 02:15:25.690
They also tried to recruit
2904
02:15:25.690 --> 02:15:28.560
a more section of white people.
2905
02:15:28.560 --> 02:15:30.750
But the marginal differences between
2906
02:15:30.750 --> 02:15:32.010
the ANC and COPE,
2907
02:15:32.010 --> 02:15:35.150
they need to come with clear,
2908
02:15:35.150 --> 02:15:37.760
modern political propositions,
2909
02:15:37.760 --> 02:15:39.690
people can believe in.
2910
02:15:39.690 --> 02:15:42.770
If COPE manages to get 10%
2911
02:15:42.770 --> 02:15:43.780
at the next election,
2912
02:15:43.780 --> 02:15:45.670
that will be somewhat a victory
2913
02:15:45.670 --> 02:15:46.770
for COPE.
2914
02:15:46.770 --> 02:15:49.910
But not necessarily a victory for South Africa.
2915
02:15:49.910 --> 02:15:50.840
A victory,
2916
02:15:50.840 --> 02:15:53.320
a democratic victory for South Africa
2917
02:15:53.320 --> 02:15:56.080
will happen the day the ANC
2918
02:15:57.360 --> 02:16:00.617
faces the threat of losing the elections.
2919
02:16:00.617 --> 02:16:01.450
(upbeat music)
2920
02:16:01.450 --> 02:16:02.590
2921
02:16:02.590 --> 02:16:04.740
finds itself at the crossroads
2922
02:16:04.740 --> 02:16:07.560
where a reality check is overdue.
2923
02:16:07.560 --> 02:16:09.040
One thing is certain.
2924
02:16:09.040 --> 02:16:11.800
South Africa has lost its innocence.
2925
02:16:11.800 --> 02:16:15.510
It is no longer the world\'s greatest fairytale.
2926
02:16:15.510 --> 02:16:18.220
After 97 years of unity,
2927
02:16:18.220 --> 02:16:20.220
the movement has been divided.
2928
02:16:20.220 --> 02:16:22.540
Like many other liberation movements,
2929
02:16:22.540 --> 02:16:23.890
once in power,
2930
02:16:23.890 --> 02:16:26.190
the welfare of its struggle heroes
2931
02:16:26.190 --> 02:16:29.330
has overshadowed the collective interests.
2932
02:16:29.330 --> 02:16:30.163
Today,
2933
02:16:30.163 --> 02:16:31.690
each faction claims to be
2934
02:16:31.690 --> 02:16:33.790
the custodian of the dreams
2935
02:16:33.790 --> 02:16:35.370
of the Freedom Charter
2936
02:16:35.370 --> 02:16:38.590
for which the ANC fought long and hard.
2937
02:16:38.590 --> 02:16:40.710
So will the split encourage
2938
02:16:40.710 --> 02:16:42.720
South Africa\'s politicians
2939
02:16:42.720 --> 02:16:44.270
to honor their promise
2940
02:16:44.270 --> 02:16:46.710
of a better life for all?
2941
02:16:46.710 --> 02:16:49.420
Will the hard earned fruits of freedom
2942
02:16:49.420 --> 02:16:52.090
benefit the millions who also suffered
2943
02:16:52.090 --> 02:16:54.540
the indignity of apartheid?
2944
02:16:54.540 --> 02:16:56.650
Or will the better life for all
2945
02:16:56.650 --> 02:16:58.610
once more be the privilege
2946
02:16:58.610 --> 02:16:59.933
of the chosen few?
2947
02:17:00.926 --> 02:17:03.507
♪Dear Mr Government♪
♪what\'s really happening?♪
2948
02:17:03.507 --> 02:17:06.613
♪Miners on the road ♪
♪and you keep on piling more ♪
2949
02:17:06.613 --> 02:17:09.307
♪You buying guns for war ♪
♪but you can\'t feed the poor ♪
2950
02:17:09.307 --> 02:17:10.340
♪ Yes Mr Government ♪
2951
02:17:10.340 --> 02:17:12.180
♪ Life\'s still harder than ♪
2952
02:17:12.180 --> 02:17:13.725
♪ You can\'t imagine it ♪
2953
02:17:13.725 --> 02:17:14.558
♪ Ten years of freedom ♪
2954
02:17:14.558 --> 02:17:15.866
♪ And the tash is slowly dying ♪
2955
02:17:15.866 --> 02:17:17.633
♪ While we trying trying hard ♪
2956
02:17:17.633 --> 02:17:20.206
♪ Corrupt politicians don\'t care about the cause ♪
2957
02:17:20.206 --> 02:17:21.422
♪ They eat their own cake ♪
2958
02:17:21.422 --> 02:17:22.918
♪ Cause they know they\'re above the law ♪
2959
02:17:22.918 --> 02:17:24.551
♪ Like life Mr President ♪
2960
02:17:24.551 --> 02:17:26.095
♪ Is tough in a residence ♪
2961
02:17:26.095 --> 02:17:27.505
♪ Do you have a cover plan ♪
2962
02:17:27.505 --> 02:17:28.663
♪ Young, black and hungry men ♪
2963
02:17:28.663 --> 02:17:30.305
♪ The soul of the minor man ♪
2964
02:17:30.305 --> 02:17:31.654
♪ Young, black and African ♪
2965
02:17:31.654 --> 02:17:33.029
♪ Its so like the minor men ♪
2966
02:17:33.029 --> 02:17:34.524
♪ Call of the minor man ♪
2967
02:17:34.524 --> 02:17:35.749
♪ Strong enough to put the wall ♪
2968
02:17:35.749 --> 02:17:37.517
♪ Up on the strongest man ♪
2969
02:17:37.517 --> 02:17:38.989
♪ You were like a soldier man ♪
2970
02:17:38.989 --> 02:17:40.247
♪ Raise your hand up ♪
2971
02:17:40.247 --> 02:17:41.213
♪ If you\'re African ♪
2972
02:17:41.213 --> 02:17:43.146
♪ What? ♪
2973
02:17:43.146 --> 02:17:44.929
♪ Raise your hand up if you\'re African ♪
2974
02:17:44.929 --> 02:17:49.929
♪ What? ♪
2975
02:17:51.404 --> 02:17:54.369
♪ Raise your hand up if you\'re African ♪
2976
02:17:54.369 --> 02:17:56.152
♪ Raise your hand up ♪
2977
02:17:56.152 --> 02:17:59.652
♪ If you\'re African what. ♪
