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The toilet, forget it, you know his pet peeves.
I will not clean up animal poops and I will not

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do the toilet.

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Well, it's a menial job.
Men generally don't like menial jobs.

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Women don't much like them either.

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We haven't been living together for too long,
only a month,

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but, um, I don't even know where the toilet
cleaning tools are.

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I don't even really know how to clean.

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I use a sponge and rubber gloves.
Do you?

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Because, you know, my mom had these brushes.
Those are handy.

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Don doesn't have one of those.

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If it gets bad enough, I'll clean it, but
before it gets bad enough,

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I clean it because, I guess, men don't
notice how yucky it gets sometimes.

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I, I clean the toilet.
That's probably why you should film Adam

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cleaning the toilet.
Why?

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Because you never do it, it'd be kind of funny.

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Uh, well, the clean the toilet in our house is
generally myself because I tend to have a

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little more free time, and my wife doesn't like
to get her hands that dirty.

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I do the wet work basically.
Does who get sick of looking at the scum in the

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toilet like me.
I, I got to do it.

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I can't handle sitting down and knowing, hey,
someone could crawl up and grab me.

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I don't get a chance to clean the toilet.
I sleep during the day.

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I work at night, so basically, the wife does it
all the time.

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One good thing about shift work, shift work.

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Don't have to do too much.

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And men are used to a much more pungent.

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Um, bathroom environment.
I once described as almost a urine culture.

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We grew up in a urine culture where the smell
of urine is not foreign to us.

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You go into a men's washroom and you're
inundated with the smell,

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and it's just part of your rite of passage.

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Women tend to prefer a much more modest and
discreet environment and so

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they prefer it more clean.

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OK, you wanna see me clean the toilet?

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Yeah, I'll clean the toilet.
Oh yeah, right,

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I'm, I don't clean the toilet.

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This is what we use to clean the toilet.

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My name is Sandy and I'm a social worker.

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And my name is Mark.

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I'm a community advocate with nonprofits.

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Oh, we've been married 17 years and never had a
fight.

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And we have two children, Dany and Seth.
Dany is 15.

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Seth is 12, and Susie, Susie.
Oh, and the birds, and I don't know their names.

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Because I hate them.
Well, Mark likes to see everything that he has.

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He doesn't like to put it away because when he
doesn't see it in front of him,

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he loses track of what and where it is, and
this includes,

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you know, reminders of when and where people
are supposed to be, plus bills that have to be

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paid and.
Stuff coming in and going out, and he,

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he can't cope unless he sees it out, so he piles
things up, and it makes me crazy.

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It makes me crazy.
I just sometimes wanna take the piles and throw

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them.
There's no doubt that, um, especially during

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the last four years, the balance of chores has
shifted.

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Uh, much more heavily towards Sandy and away
from me.

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Sometimes I get him to help me, but he doesn't.
We used to cook together.

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I remember us cooking a lot of meals together
for company and stuff,

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and he doesn't seem to be interested anymore in
doing that,

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so I get it's kind of.

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I know it's kind of sad in a way.

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Hi there.
I'm Celia.

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I work in, uh, in the advertising department at
a newspaper in town.

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I have no children, and we've been together for
five years.

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I'm Adam, and I work at the same newspaper in
the production department, and, um,

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I've been married for five years too.

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We're really, um, sort of spotless, as you can
tell.

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Our families have told us that.

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Um, we split the chores probably 70/30.

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Myself doing 70 and Adam doing 30, and probably
that's the way it is because he, um, he works

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nights, and I work days, and there isn't a lot of
time, um, when we're both awake to do the chores.

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He does, um, vacuuming.

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Um, what else does he do?
I guess I, I shouldn't say nothing.

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Mostly kind of the organizing and the cleaning,
little picking up and that kind of thing,

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you know, nothing, nothing too terribly deep,
unless, uh,

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unless Sarge phones and.

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He's leaving a lot of things lately.

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I tend to do a lot more than that.

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And I think I should.

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My name is Arlie Hochschild.
I'm a professor of sociology at the University

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of California, Berkeley, and I'm the author of a
book called The Second Shift: Working Parents

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and the Revolution at Home.

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What I did was basically observe in
people's homes,

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over a long period of time.

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What I would notice is that a woman would
be on the phone and folding laundry or she

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would be cooking dinner but talking to a
child or tying a shoelace.

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Men were more likely to say, OK, Saturday night
gourmet meal.

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OK, everybody out of the kitchen, you know, one
thing at a time.

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Also, women were more likely to take on the
mental responsibility.

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One woman described feeling as if her

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mind was like a switchboard, and she was getting
messages from a lot of different places.

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Women were more likely to do work that
has deadlines, like you have to get dinner on

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the table sometime between 5:30 and 6:30, but
you don't have to mow the lawn between

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5:30 and 6:30, so women are more likely to do
things that have to be done daily: fixing lunch,

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dinner, baths; men are more likely to do
things that they can do when they have time.

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He does the lawn, the manly duties.
The manly, manly duties.

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I mean, garbage is a traditional male
occupation, and I am no different than other

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males.
Garbage is a big one with me.

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We got some tahini, time of the pharaohs, and
the fridge.

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I tend to be a person who goes to the fridge
every so often and throws out all the food that

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no one's eaten over the last few weeks, and
so that we don't have bugs and mice running

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around rampant.
And dressing, um,

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on a typical day, I get up at, you know,
anywhere between, say, 12 and 2 depending on

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how late the shift is.

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Make the bed, have a shower, and stuff, of
course.

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Kind of organize the dishes and stick them in
the dishwasher if they need to be organized and

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stuck in the dishwasher.

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Adam says he does most of the dishes and he'll
say that,

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but really he doesn't.
Well, we have a dishwasher and I've been using

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it lately.
There's only two of us, so I mean, I usually

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whip them up, but no, it's, I'm kind of
determined to just leave the dishes now for him.

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And just let him do them because he has to do
something, right?

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He does dishes.
He loves to stand there and do the dishes and

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we have a dishwasher and he hates to use it.
I don't know why.

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It just makes him feel good to stand there.

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I think it's a stress thing; it helps him, so.

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Yeah, I do more than he does, yeah.
I found that working mothers worked on the

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average 10 to 12 hours longer each week than
their working husbands.

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That is, if you put all the time they work at
the office together with all the time they're

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working at home and compare it to the work
their husbands are doing,

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they're working on an average of one month
extra a year.

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Stay up this way, the way I adore you.
Stay clean,

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stay clean, stay clean.

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this way you.

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I do work six days a week, all day long, you know,
it's nice to come home and see the house.

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You mean those, those fur balls?
Yeah, we have four animals and they're completely

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fuzzy like this one, and there's hair
everywhere from the animals,

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especially in the winter, you know.

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And it's like, come on, so I always end up having
to do it,

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not always, most of the time, and in a way it's
much easier when women go out to work for women

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to want to do the high-valued money-making
thing than it is for men to go in the opposite

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direction and share in this devalued work.

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Oh, my name is Mona and, um, I suppose you could
call me a housewife.

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My name is Stanley.
And I'm retired from the aircraft industry.

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Oh, the split of chores, that's fascinating.
It's, I should say, 50/50,

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no, it isn't, but I really honestly think that
it's probably about 80/20.

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I do 80.

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He does 20. Men, when they retire, tend to, uh,
they fall heir to the

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vacuum cleaner and they can whiz it around any
place they like.

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And they don't like it any better than a woman
does.

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Vacuuming is the pits.

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Hi, my name is Stu.
I have a vacuum store,

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service and sales, all makes and models of
vacuums.

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Up to three or four years ago, it seemed to be almost
a woman type thing.

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The lady would come in and pick out the one she
wanted.

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Not so much anymore.

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Who the vacuum means usually is the one
that has the most say.

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For example, as we're showing it.

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In the old days you used to always hand this
to the lady because it was generally understood

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that most women did the vacuuming. Today, as
you're talking to the couple,

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I will hand the product to them.

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And put it in between them because I
don't know who really does the vacuuming,

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and there seems to be a lot of eye contact
going back and forth.

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Especially if they're in my age group, a man
really doesn't want to admit that he's doing

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the vacuuming, so nobody takes it. I usually
say something to the factors, like I don't know

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how it works in your home, but in my home I do
the vacuuming because it beats doing dishes.

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After I say that, it kind of breaks the ice,
and the man will reach out and take it.

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The mural was, we put a lot of thought into it.
We want to give an idea that if you had a

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vacuum that worked really well, it would be
almost a pleasure to use.

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I don't think anybody's ever gonna say they
enjoy vacuuming,

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but at least it wouldn't be too difficult.

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I never thought about it as a male or female
figure.

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Perhaps I'll add a man in a long chair.

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My name is Raven.
I'm Allegra, and we've been together 2

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years.
I think it's changed for same-sex couples

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because from the moment we come out and even
prior to that, we start to question what those

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roles are. And you know, it's more than just
our sexual preferences; it's where we are in

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our culture.

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I think most gay men and lesbians from the
very beginning start to say,

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wait a minute, this doesn't make sense where
you tell me I'm supposed to be.

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Just like a man, you give.

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A break up in the kitchen baking, OK.

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No need for the bride to feel tragic.

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The rest is push-button magic.

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So whether you bake, broil, or stew, the
Frigidaire kitchen does it all for you.

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Don't have to be chained to the stove all day.

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Just set the timer and you're on your way.

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My name is John Gottman.
I'm a psychology professor at the University of

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Washington, and this is my laboratory.
This is the control room of my laboratory in

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which we study marriages.
This particular room is involved

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in collecting both video data, and Christie and
Melissa are coding some of this video data.

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Of couples who live in an apartment for 24 hours,
and we watch them as they do very simple

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things like make dinner together, clean up, and

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um, read the newspaper, stuff like that.
We're particularly interested in emotion and

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looking at the way they express themselves
emotionally, you know,

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and so we, we decide.

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Was this thing said with anger?
Was there sadness in it when they,

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when they said something, uh, were they tense?

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And we also collect physiological data from the
couples as they interact,

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heart rate, things like that.

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When people's heart rate goes up, they,
you know,

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when it gets beyond a certain level, about 95
beats a minute,

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they can't listen very well.

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They're more likely to feel flooded and
overwhelmed by the emotions and to withdraw

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emotionally.
Let me do it for.

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You do you mind?
Well, sure, after I did the hard part.

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Well, you always get to do it.
We only have one,

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so.
You know, we find in our research that uh that

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men's doing housework really is important in
predicting uh their resistance to infectious

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illness.
So men who do housework are healthier

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physically than men who don't.
They're less lonely.

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It's not a dimension of exercise.
It's not that housework is very good exercise,

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it's not.
Um, but it's really a dimension of being

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emotionally engaged in the marriage.

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Hi, my name is Carla, and what I do for a
living is I'm a professional speaker and I'm an

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expert on recognition, fun in the workplace,
and team building.

16:12.809 --> 16:16.380
My name's Gary.
I'm a herbalist, a master herbalist,

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and I have a 17 year old son.

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Who lives with us and uh his name is Chandra
and his name means moon or illumination.

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Well, I think when both couples are working,
both of them,

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then it really makes sense to just make it
50/50, and I think it feels fair to everyone.

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My mother worked from the time I was about 8,
so I learned how to down socks and wash clothes,

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so I just do.
I don't wax floors, but I pretty well do

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everything else.
He likes housework.

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He likes keeping things neat and tidy, and uh,
so I really appreciate that.

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And so we share it.
How about fresh green onions, and there's

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some nice tomatoes there?

16:59.239 --> 17:02.140
Yeah, let's have rice.
OK, I'll do fish, my specialty.

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Yeah.
I tend to cook dinner,

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but sometimes.

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No one, just no one cooks. We just have the food
in the house and people just do what they need

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to do to get it, and I figure my job is done if
the food is here.

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And if it doesn't get prepared into something,
well, too bad.

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Well, I have, uh, I have five kinds of meals that
are my basic meals.

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This is so embarrassing. Uh.

17:42.479 --> 17:44.829
Uh, when I lived by myself, I, I, uh.

17:46.310 --> 17:51.420
I used to try to make myself meals, but nothing
that would take too much work, and nothing that

17:51.420 --> 17:53.819
would entail too much washing of dishes
afterwards.

17:53.900 --> 17:57.650
So what I figured out in the end was best
to do everything in one pot.

17:57.859 --> 18:01.650
There's the famous, uh, chicken and rice
casserole that's a standard,

18:01.739 --> 18:06.099
uh, and we have breaded chicken which is baked
in the oven on a platter, and it's the same old

18:06.099 --> 18:08.300
thing.
It's standard with mashed potatoes and creamed

18:08.300 --> 18:10.910
corn.
It's like, I don't know why.

18:11.140 --> 18:12.869
It just kind of evolves somehow.

18:13.579 --> 18:18.300
And then, uh, the same thing only with pork
chops, which is quite a leap for me.

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I go from chicken to pork chops.
Isn't this sad?

18:21.140 --> 18:23.180
And then, uh, what else?
This spaghetti sauce.

18:23.260 --> 18:26.250
I make a pretty mean spaghetti sauce, and the
fifth one is,

18:26.260 --> 18:31.130
uh, toast.
I know that if he's making pork chops,

18:31.260 --> 18:35.329
um, then I'm gonna get mashed potatoes and
creamed corn every time.

18:38.349 --> 18:40.469
I mean, there isn't really a lot of preparation
to creamed corn,

18:40.510 --> 18:44.550
whereas like frozen corn, you're opening a bag,
you know,

18:44.630 --> 18:46.150
there's all kinds of stuff going on there, so.

18:49.630 --> 18:53.260
In a way, people don't recognize how important
it is because they think,

18:53.270 --> 18:59.030
well, what are chores?
I mean boring, boring, uh trivial, who cares?

18:59.150 --> 19:05.420
Uh, if it's trivial, it's not important,
but chores take time, and time is

19:05.420 --> 19:09.579
symbolic, and chores themselves are symbolic.

19:10.020 --> 19:16.949
So what's really going on when a husband
doesn't help with cooking or a wife insists

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on higher standards, uh.

19:19.349 --> 19:26.199
It is that there's an unsaid conversation going on, do you care enough
about our joint life here?

19:26.199 --> 19:28.069
Yes or no?

19:28.439 --> 19:31.800
Do you love me? uh.
Enough to value me, uh, yes, no, I, I feel that,

19:32.390 --> 19:37.790
you know, um, not, not what the gift that he gave me on
the anniversary,

19:37.989 --> 19:41.969
but every day if he offered that he would help
with the house that I,

19:42.189 --> 19:47.050
I really feel that he loved me.
We, he didn't give me, he didn't give me any

19:47.069 --> 19:48.500
gift or any ring or any words.

19:48.750 --> 19:55.349
But, uh, yeah, the behavior in helping around the house
tells me.

19:55.660 --> 20:00.770
They are saying that to me. I have a record.
So no gift next anniversary, but every day I

20:00.839 --> 20:02.630
wash the dishes.
That's fine. You, you promise, right?

20:03.589 --> 20:06.760
Ever since the computer, um, came into our life.
Uh, things have changed, definitely, um.

20:06.839 --> 20:08.839
I think Adam just doesn't notice.
He used to be such a clean, you know,

20:10.030 --> 20:13.140
he used to clean every day and

20:14.290 --> 20:17.729
straighten things up and, and he just doesn't

20:18.400 --> 20:20.680
notice anything anymore.

20:20.939 --> 20:25.540
People will say sometimes to a woman, oh well,
it's easy for you.

20:25.540 --> 20:28.859
You're tidy or it's easy for you, but it's not easy.
Nobody really likes doing housework.

20:38.959 --> 20:42.989
We do it just because it's there.
The laundry, OK, we usually have at least 3

20:43.000 --> 20:46.939
baskets of laundry,
uh, full of clean laundry at any one time, and

20:46.959 --> 20:49.510
my daughter's supposed to sort and fold the

20:50.040 --> 20:51.949
laundry, but when she does it, she, um, she

20:52.339 --> 20:56.000
listens to music and sometimes talks on the
phone also, so she doesn't fold the clothes and

20:56.130 --> 21:01.170
then she sort of just does something to them to
put them in the piles and then she gives people

21:01.170 --> 21:07.569
the wrong clothes and so I end up with the
wrong underwear and stuff and.

21:07.569 --> 21:14.489
But that's like the best it gets.
Uh, I found that I have a lot of white socks

21:14.489 --> 21:17.979
because I referee and play basketball,
and I was always getting pairs where the

21:17.979 --> 21:19.530
thickness or the style was always different,

21:20.530 --> 21:21.869
so I decided to sit down and actually number my

21:22.069 --> 21:26.479
socks so that the pairs would be easy
to put together.

21:26.829 --> 21:32.310
So therefore, no matter who is sorting the
socks, they would be able to figure out which

21:32.390 --> 21:39.219
socks went together.
And that's the number sorting system.

21:39.869 --> 21:42.949
The only thing that I do all the time and I
prefer to do is the laundry because I don't

21:42.949 --> 21:46.979


21:47.859 --> 21:50.390


21:50.920 --> 21:55.760


21:55.760 --> 21:57.829
They don't care what any man says.
They do not know how to do laundry.

21:58.199 --> 22:01.189
I used to be very
protective of doing the laundry,

22:01.310 --> 22:07.069
but that chore has been wrestled away from me
over the years, and so now I don't do a whole

22:07.069 --> 22:09.079
lot of the laundry.
You know what he used to do?

22:09.109 --> 22:10.459
This is, this is the guards on his toes.

22:11.000 --> 22:14.319
He would do laundry once a month, once a month.

22:14.800 --> 22:16.180
This is no lie, once a month.

22:16.510 --> 22:18.010
That was a single living plan.

22:18.890 --> 22:20.359
That was his thing.
Four washes.

22:20.410 --> 22:23.160
Line them up.
Four dryers, line them up.

22:23.290 --> 22:24.359
It's done.

22:25.010 --> 22:26.359
But he'd have nothing to wear.

22:26.930 --> 22:29.209
He'd have nothing, like if he was gonna go out
or to,

22:29.329 --> 22:31.530
he'd have nothing to wear, and he used to work
in an office,

22:31.619 --> 22:35.410
a business, the whole business thing, and I'm
like, how the hell did you have advantage?

22:35.489 --> 22:39.300
I have a large supply of socks and underwear. I.

22:48.829 --> 22:55.349
When X marks the spot, I need the X. Axon's got
the extra cleaning power of enzymes.

22:55.390 --> 22:58.949
It soaks out dirt and many stains detergents
alone can't wash out.

22:59.189 --> 23:01.969
See you.
Here we go again.

23:03.979 --> 23:05.579
Mark the spot.
You need the.

23:08.069 --> 23:13.390
This is a coffee group that's been getting
together for about ten years and, uh, get together

23:13.390 --> 23:16.979
once a week and talk about our friends and kids
and what bugs us.

23:17.229 --> 23:18.699
In my case, I was really lucky.

23:18.949 --> 23:20.390
I didn't have to fight and scream.

23:20.890 --> 23:24.969
My husband would do some of the chores, but
again not on his own.

23:25.010 --> 23:28.050
I would have to say, would you do the vacuuming
or whatnot.

23:28.130 --> 23:29.369
He wouldn't think to do it on his own.

23:29.650 --> 23:32.520
I mean, that was an attitude that drove me
absolutely crazy.

23:32.689 --> 23:37.069
Well, you know, I don't want help.
I want somebody else to take the responsibility

23:37.069 --> 23:42.089
and I don't want to have to say please take out
the garbage or you didn't do the laundry or the

23:42.089 --> 23:43.140
toilet's a mess.

23:43.729 --> 23:45.439
Why is it the woman's responsibility.

23:46.152 --> 23:48.503
You're working full time.
I'm sorry because that's true,

23:48.583 --> 23:51.292
you know, you do get, uh, you get irritable.
I, I would,

23:51.302 --> 23:55.863
I would find that because I mean, you know, I
have to work as hard as you plus I have to work

23:55.863 --> 23:59.782
before I go to work and after I come home and
you're through, you don't have to work if you.

23:59.782 --> 24:02.453
Don't want to, you know, it's up to you if you
wanna do something,

24:02.583 --> 24:07.772
but a woman's work is there after she comes
home from work and then the expression I did it

24:07.772 --> 24:11.422
for you, you know, when the husband says I did
it for you like this is my whole house.

24:11.605 --> 24:15.286
With all my bathrooms and my nice big kitchen,
see what I've done for you?

24:15.316 --> 24:19.635
I don't like that expression; that bothers me
because you've done it for everybody or it just

24:19.635 --> 24:23.715
had to be done.
What I find, um, the bone of contention in our

24:23.715 --> 24:26.875
house is that I take the responsibility for the
day to day,

24:26.916 --> 24:30.865
week to week chores like the dusting, the
vacuuming, and things like that,

24:31.046 --> 24:35.895
meals, what to eat; if that doesn't get, if I
don't think of doing that,

24:35.956 --> 24:39.939
it won't get done.
And I'd like to take, get that responsibility,

24:40.060 --> 24:43.849
some of it, not all of it, off my shoulders, but
no one's taking.

24:45.040 --> 24:48.739
What's much more important than the amount of
time.

24:49.400 --> 24:53.949
A man spends in housework compared to the
amount of time that a woman spends in housework

24:53.949 --> 24:58.780
is the emotional connection and the emotional
engagement or disengagement that's involved in

24:58.780 --> 25:01.319
it.
So, for example, a husband who says, Well,

25:01.449 --> 25:05.079
tell me what to do and I'll do it.
Tell me what to buy in the grocery store is

25:05.079 --> 25:06.959
very different from a husband who looks around
and says,

25:07.000 --> 25:08.079
well, we need cat food and.

25:08.430 --> 25:11.709
You know, kitty litter and, you know, we'll get,
well, we need something for dinner because

25:11.709 --> 25:16.060
we're going out, uh, to see a play and my
wife's working late so I better get some

25:16.060 --> 25:19.109
chicken and I'll make it, and it's a very
different kind of husband.

25:19.219 --> 25:24.290
My family is a little bit atypical because, uh,
my wife has a high standard on a lot of things,

25:24.369 --> 25:30.140
you know, she has to have everything very clean and, uh,
when people come here,

25:30.420 --> 25:33.050
you know, everything has to be in order
and also,

25:33.099 --> 25:37.589
uh.
You know, she takes care of, uh, a lot of, uh, the

25:37.589 --> 25:44.030
kids' stuff, you know, uh, she stretches herself
so those chores actually grow so much that

25:44.030 --> 25:49.430
uh, you know, I have to come in and help, but
that's not, uh, what I have in mind, but I guess I

25:49.430 --> 25:53.469
can live with that.
Men will often say, well, she's compulsive and

25:53.469 --> 25:56.390
everything has to be just perfect, or they will
say.

25:57.390 --> 26:01.510
Uh, she's bossy.
When I enter this female territory,

26:01.750 --> 26:08.050
I become her serf, and she hasn't conceded any
authority in that territory.

26:08.329 --> 26:11.819
I washed dishes in a certain way, and when we
got together,

26:11.910 --> 26:15.709
I realized that Raven washed them in a
different way, and for some reason that just

26:15.709 --> 26:19.810
always bothered me, so I kept wanting to
control how she did the

26:20.930 --> 26:24.839
I kept wanting to control how she did them, and
I kept wanting to make her do them the way I do

26:24.839 --> 26:28.250
them.
And sometimes I still have to like hold my

26:28.250 --> 26:29.890
tongue when I see her doing it differently.

26:30.979 --> 26:34.650
And I have to hold my tongue when she tells me
how I'm doing it differently,

26:34.739 --> 26:37.479
so, uh, it's sort of a compromise.

26:46.369 --> 26:49.599
Uh, one of my specialties is trying to
understand how.

26:50.520 --> 26:56.030
Our ancestral past affects our current human
nature and the way we behave.

26:56.599 --> 27:00.560
Now in doing that, I like to think a bit about
mammals and birds and particularly about our

27:00.560 --> 27:06.439
primate relatives such as the chimpanzees, uh,
gorillas and the baboons and so on.

27:07.079 --> 27:09.520
Now in most species of primates there isn't
much

27:10.209 --> 27:15.670
male investment, much male investment in particular
offspring, uh,

27:15.680 --> 27:20.880
for example, in baboons, males have a tendency to
defend the troop and they defend offspring,

27:20.890 --> 27:22.770
but they don't really know who their offspring
are.

27:22.839 --> 27:27.989
And so I suspect then that the nature of
the human species is such that males

27:28.949 --> 27:35.750
have a biological propensity to be a bit less
interested in the domestic aspects of house and

27:35.750 --> 27:37.619
home than women.

27:39.939 --> 27:45.680
We've lived in this house about 4 years, um,
and I would say until we moved into this house,

27:46.140 --> 27:48.030
we basically lived on one level.

27:48.739 --> 27:55.500
And so it was far more, um, simple and certainly
more conducive to my lifestyle

27:55.750 --> 27:57.339
to maintain one level.

27:57.829 --> 28:04.030
Now we effectively live on two huge levels and
a third little level.

28:04.689 --> 28:11.500
And philosophically, I don't like living here,
and certainly my role

28:11.500 --> 28:14.089
in chores has diminished accordingly.

28:16.560 --> 28:20.959
Suction dusting with a thickly bristled brush
allows you to reach a lot of home furnishings

28:20.959 --> 28:23.770
that you couldn't do with an old-fashioned dust
scattering cloth.

28:25.280 --> 28:27.949
It's ideal for cleaning phonograph records.

28:29.579 --> 28:32.800
And fancy picture or mirror frames.

28:39.989 --> 28:42.959
But don't forget your greatest attachment, your
husband.

28:43.209 --> 28:46.839
He can be the greatest cleaning aid of all if
you get him interested.

28:47.089 --> 28:48.800
This is not the way to go about it.

28:49.329 --> 28:51.209
Do I ever coax him to help me?

28:52.500 --> 28:53.819
I beg him to help me.

28:54.219 --> 28:58.619
I, I might say, oh, Adam, I cleaned both
bathrooms today and I did the dishes and I'm

28:58.619 --> 29:01.839
doing the dinner tonight, um, do you think you could,

29:01.949 --> 29:05.989
um, clean up the den or do you think you could
go out and wash my car for me?

29:06.050 --> 29:09.089
I, I try to do trade-offs, but, um,

29:10.770 --> 29:11.859
it's hard.

29:12.579 --> 29:13.729
It's, it's a struggle.

29:14.060 --> 29:20.410
Like, I have 3 kids, and, uh, so, uh, especially after I cook the supper,

29:20.979 --> 29:27.930
then I, I'm very tired and I, I really need
somebody to wash the dishes with me or for me.

29:28.300 --> 29:33.900
But that time, and, and he would sit over there
and watch the TV or read the newspaper, and I

29:33.900 --> 29:37.109
would feel that
it's not fair for me, but I don't want to ask

29:37.109 --> 29:41.630
him because I don't feel that I, I, I feel like
he should do it automatically,

29:41.869 --> 29:47.619
not without asking, but usually if I don't, if
I don't ask him, then he won't do it.

29:48.150 --> 29:51.250
So, so I need to go through the struggling in
my mind.

29:52.380 --> 29:56.229
Why do you ask, no, I don't want to again
every time,

29:56.239 --> 29:58.469
you know.
You know, it's not so much a matter of

29:58.469 --> 30:03.109
confrontation and anger, although a lot of
times that's the way to get men's attention is

30:03.109 --> 30:05.900
through anger.
So it's not that women should not be angry,

30:06.030 --> 30:08.939
but they need to get their husbands to see
things from their point of view,

30:09.449 --> 30:15.219
uh, and I think men really need to realize that
it takes much less time to do the dishes

30:15.510 --> 30:18.150
than it does to argue about who's gonna do the
dishes.

30:21.050 --> 30:25.369
The only real conflict we have is just the, uh,
just getting me to do more stuff,

30:25.729 --> 30:26.770
especially do more cooking.

30:27.770 --> 30:31.089
Because Seely, she likes to cook, but sometimes
she comes home from work and she isn't really

30:31.089 --> 30:33.920
in the cooking mood.
Well, it would free up my time.

30:33.969 --> 30:39.959
I'd have a lot more leisure time to do things
that I want to do like play on the computer or,

30:40.290 --> 30:44.670
you know, do different things, take off because
I really feel like,

30:44.969 --> 30:46.449
um, a lot of my time is spent.

30:48.189 --> 30:54.319
Working for him. OK, so every so often Mark has
his piles of stuff everywhere.

30:54.609 --> 31:01.079
And I, I can't cope with him anymore, and so I
ask him to help do it, to help clear them, and he

31:01.079 --> 31:05.170
can't, he says, no, I won't do it, that's your
job, you clear them, and then my resentment

31:05.170 --> 31:11.130
builds up, and then he, and then I, you know, I
we it doesn't get me anywhere because it's just

31:11.130 --> 31:12.640
piles of stuff everywhere.

31:16.300 --> 31:22.449
I certainly feel a certain degree of guilt that
I'm not more involved in the homework,

31:23.089 --> 31:28.920
I guess.
I balance that with my sense of guilt that we

31:28.920 --> 31:35.349
live in this big house, um, and I understand that
there is

31:35.560 --> 31:42.319
Uh, justified comments against my, uh, the change
that I, in my

31:42.880 --> 31:45.400
housework, uh, participation.

31:45.910 --> 31:48.219
But, uh, I live with it.

31:48.430 --> 31:51.989
Oh, men can become great chefs and men can do
all sorts of things.

31:52.030 --> 31:54.810
They can learn to do housework and so on, but
there may be some cost to that,

31:54.819 --> 31:58.390
and maybe a bit of hostility.
It may be a little bit of frustration on the

31:58.390 --> 32:01.949
parts of males, especially when the men want to
organize the house a little bit

32:02.074 --> 32:06.625
a different way than the women want to organize
it. So we should remember there's some

32:06.625 --> 32:09.895
cost to this.
We thought about getting a housekeeper actually.

32:09.895 --> 32:14.055
Adam suggested it and I think I said no, the
place is too small.

32:14.385 --> 32:16.814
I'll just, you know, we can just whip through
and clean it real fast.

32:16.944 --> 32:18.265
I don't know.
I just couldn't warrant

32:19.270 --> 32:22.770
hiring a housekeeper, but we're thinking, think
about it again.

32:23.189 --> 32:27.420
Well, actually we prefer to spend most of our
time going biking and hiking and getting

32:27.420 --> 32:30.939
outdoors and having fun together, spending time
together before we start having family,

32:31.030 --> 32:37.589
so I think it's worth our money to actually pay
somebody to come in and help us every couple of

32:37.589 --> 32:42.500
weeks, um, do some of the dirty work so that our
cleaning time is a little bit reduced.

32:42.829 --> 32:44.150
Hi, my name is Brian.

32:44.839 --> 32:49.150
Hi, my name is Wayne, and we have a two-person
cleaning business.

32:49.479 --> 32:52.250
The response we got from people when we would
approach them on

32:52.280 --> 32:56.079
the, uh, subject of cleaning their home was, um,

32:57.170 --> 33:01.140
I guess a little bit of astonishment because we
were stereotyped.

33:01.699 --> 33:05.439
Uh, did you want your car fixed, uh, you know,
do you want the roof repaired?

33:05.560 --> 33:10.880
Uh, well, I'll do that, but, uh, cleaning house,
get serious here,

33:10.920 --> 33:13.109
you know, can't do that, you're a male.

33:14.199 --> 33:16.030
Well, I think we've proved them wrong.

33:17.180 --> 33:21.300
And it's invariably the female who phones and
um,

33:22.170 --> 33:26.469
inquires about the service where we come in is
we'll do the housework,

33:26.510 --> 33:31.109
we'll get that out of her way and she could
spend maybe a little bit more quality time with

33:31.109 --> 33:33.099
the husband and with the children.

33:33.430 --> 33:38.650
Well, when I've been in relationships with men,
um, I was always expected to do the housework

33:38.650 --> 33:39.869
that that was just a given.

33:40.760 --> 33:46.060
And when, when I started having live-in
relationships with women,

33:46.910 --> 33:49.349
it became something that you actually talked
about.

33:49.739 --> 33:54.880
I mean, we actually sat down and said, well,
I'll do this, I'll do this, I'll do this, and you

33:54.880 --> 33:58.560
do this, and you do this, and you do this.
I never did that with men, never. It never even

33:58.560 --> 34:02.510
occurred to me.
When I first moved in here, uh,

34:02.520 --> 34:06.869
it was just Gary and Kendra, and there was a lot
of fighting over the housework.

34:07.040 --> 34:10.040
Well, it was basically Gary telling Kendra what
to do.

34:10.310 --> 34:11.780
And him not doing it.

34:12.129 --> 34:17.580
So, uh, being that I'm an expert on fun in
the workplace,

34:17.729 --> 34:22.719
I thought I would try to make the
housework part of living here more fun.

34:32.879 --> 34:39.360
General cleaning is made much easier if each
person picks up after

34:39.360 --> 34:42.689
himself.
Take a look at what I've been reading.

34:44.270 --> 34:49.739
When work at home is planned and organized for
cooperation, there can usually be more time for

34:49.739 --> 34:53.260
leisure.
Hey sis, maybe we should get organized.

34:53.729 --> 34:59.100
Good idea.
I created a point system and we changed the

34:59.100 --> 35:00.939
wording on housework.

35:01.729 --> 35:08.659
Uh, to home care, uh, because I think words are
very powerful, and when you think about

35:09.020 --> 35:15.570
home, it's kind of, uh, it's not just a place,
it's a whole feeling, and then care is,

35:15.729 --> 35:19.639
you know, if you care about something,
you'll look after it.

35:20.250 --> 35:25.969
You can take some jobs, Dad will help, and
I'll take some jobs, then maybe we can get our

35:25.969 --> 35:28.219
work done.
So, home care sheet.

35:29.469 --> 35:35.689
And it lists all the chores we do in our house,
and a little extra area for other chores that

35:35.689 --> 35:40.250
may come up in the week, and then the day
of the week, and then there's a little legend

35:40.250 --> 35:46.489
down here, and room for six names should we ever
have house guests who contribute, and every time

35:46.489 --> 35:49.320
you do a chore, then you tick that you did it,
so it's easy,

35:49.570 --> 35:52.580
you know, like if you vacuum, that's 4 points.

35:53.909 --> 35:57.689
But if you just take the garbage out, since that
doesn't take nearly as long as vacuuming, it's

35:57.689 --> 36:01.010
only 2 points.
We have tried several complicated systems for

36:01.010 --> 36:05.520
chore lists.
We have, um, tried having the kids

36:05.969 --> 36:10.760
do a lot of different chores, and we had them
in buckets with their names on them.

36:10.790 --> 36:15.449
And after they completed their bucket at
the end of the week with a piece of paper, they

36:15.449 --> 36:17.010
would get paid a certain amount of money.

36:17.669 --> 36:22.560
And they could actually, I think, trade if they
wanted to. Anyway, it didn't work out. They never

36:22.560 --> 36:27.800
seemed to complete it, and at the end of the
week you add it all up, and then we put down our

36:27.800 --> 36:30.840
points, and then they build up over
time.

36:31.629 --> 36:36.810
And then you sort of get to be in competition
with each other, and whenever you hit 100 points

36:36.810 --> 36:38.800
you get a reward.

36:39.090 --> 36:43.250
Like a back rub or foot massage.
I breathe.

36:43.919 --> 36:45.429
You like that? Yeah.

36:46.989 --> 36:52.120
Yeah, dry feet on your feet on your feet all
day.

36:52.399 --> 36:54.350
00, what's that?

36:57.110 --> 37:04.030
That? Oh, it makes that, you know what this does.
It kind of states all the

37:04.030 --> 37:07.830
things that everybody's doing and kind of makes
it even, because you can look at it.

37:07.949 --> 37:10.429
You got like a visual thing right here, and you
look at it and go,

37:10.469 --> 37:14.510
oh, OK, well, this person's doing this and this
person's doing that, and then you can't really

37:14.510 --> 37:17.110
blame them.
You're like, oh, OK, well they're putting in

37:17.110 --> 37:23.899
their fair share, and I guess looking at this
and then if he started nagging me

37:24.110 --> 37:26.669
I could just say, hey, well, I've been doing a
lot, and

37:27.409 --> 37:29.840
you know, you just look at the home care sheet,
you know,

37:29.919 --> 37:32.729
it's evidence. It's like, oh, got you.

37:33.800 --> 37:37.159
And we've been learning to do all sorts of
things around the house.

37:37.489 --> 37:40.409
Why, do you know that Dad can fry bacon without
burning it?

37:42.479 --> 37:45.919
So that's how the Tailors organized their work
at home plan.

37:48.399 --> 37:54.679
I had this vision that Kendra, uh, that you grow
up to be someone who is gonna take as much

37:54.679 --> 37:58.750
responsibility for your housework as, say, the
woman that you're with.

37:59.790 --> 38:04.040
Um, that you would set the tone for a new
generation of men.

38:04.199 --> 38:05.949
One more thing, how do you train your children?

38:06.270 --> 38:11.290
Train.
To do what?

38:12.939 --> 38:17.050
I think our children have trained us to the
point that we pretend that we've trained them.

38:17.050 --> 38:20.340
And then we do everything they want sometimes
when we

38:20.379 --> 38:23.770
when we really get bogged down, we just go, I
can't, I can't cope anymore,

38:23.860 --> 38:29.139
you know, you're old enough now to do it and I
really need your help, and please have

38:29.139 --> 38:34.310
this done by whenever, and they, they do it. No.

38:36.750 --> 38:42.429
Well, humans, you see, are mammals along with
chimpanzees and whales and dogs and cats and so

38:42.429 --> 38:45.870
on.
We're mammals, and parental care

38:45.870 --> 38:50.739
is not quite so balanced there.
One of the reasons being what can males do.

38:51.790 --> 38:57.310
The females produce the milk, they lactate, and
there's much less that males actually can do

38:57.310 --> 38:59.050
among the mammals.

38:59.929 --> 39:02.110
And they get in moose, for example, what kind
of male moose do?

39:06.719 --> 39:13.530
The children of fathers who are involved, who
are hands-on fathers in

39:14.179 --> 39:19.889
their early years do better in college, uh, 16
years later,

39:20.310 --> 39:23.129
so they do better in schoolwork.
They also do better.

39:23.179 --> 39:24.600
They have higher self-esteem.

39:24.860 --> 39:28.020
I do my, I do plenty of my share.
Uh, I love reading.

39:28.155 --> 39:34.504
The kids at night and, uh, I can't, I can't
escape it, you know. Mom reads to them.

39:34.504 --> 39:37.375
And it's, uh, sent that in.

39:37.905 --> 39:43.145
Men in the United States are more likely
now to endorse this position that they get a

39:43.145 --> 39:47.425
lot more meaning out of their families than
they do out of their work, and you're finding a

39:47.425 --> 39:52.324
really big shift now in how important being a
father is to men.

39:52.784 --> 39:57.050
We
um, came from very dysfunctional families,

39:57.280 --> 40:00.429
not abusive backgrounds, but certainly very
dysfunctional, and,

40:00.840 --> 40:07.280
uh, we wanted to instill in our children the
sense that they were loved, and so that was

40:07.280 --> 40:13.110
always been very strong in our family and also
try to help them develop a very strong sense of

40:13.110 --> 40:15.719
themselves, which I think we've been relatively
successful.

40:16.610 --> 40:22.610
Um, we've been very lax on things like chores
and home responsibilities.

40:22.860 --> 40:26.530
Um, they're very responsible in school.
They're very responsible with their friends,

40:27.060 --> 40:33.370
uh, so things around the house tend to be
less efficient with the children.

40:39.979 --> 40:46.199
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

40:47.629 --> 40:54.330
The most important finding of the second shift
is that the couples that

40:54.330 --> 41:01.199
shared were the happiest, and the couples where
the men did the least were

41:01.679 --> 41:02.949
the least happy.

41:03.290 --> 41:10.050
Now I don't know where the chicken is and where
the egg is because couples that like each

41:10.050 --> 41:15.969
other, that are considerate of each other, and
naturally seem to gravitate to sharing.

41:16.320 --> 41:22.239
And the couples where they're avoiding each
other, where there's some strain, it often

41:23.290 --> 41:26.570
gets expressed with a man doing less, and my
wife works full time.

41:26.649 --> 41:30.800
She has since, uh, God, I can't even remember
when she didn't work.

41:30.969 --> 41:34.179
She's always been working, so we do work full
time.

41:34.560 --> 41:39.000
Um, we have gardening to do, we have, uh,
housework to do.

41:39.290 --> 41:41.370
We do all these things together because, uh.

41:42.239 --> 41:45.439
She's my best friend, and I, I like buddying
around with my best friend.

41:45.600 --> 41:50.840
One of the things that, uh, you know, that it's
very rare for people to do when it's a chore

41:50.840 --> 41:53.949
that you have to do all the time is to say
thanks for making dinner.

41:54.000 --> 41:57.110
It was really nice.
I really appreciated that it's a very simple

41:57.110 --> 42:02.320
thing, and it's something that I often have
to remind myself to do in my own marriage but

42:02.320 --> 42:06.060
every time I do it or my wife does it, it
really does feel good, so I,

42:06.120 --> 42:07.389
think it is very important.

42:07.729 --> 42:10.639
If a man, well, their partner, um.

42:11.520 --> 42:17.580
Starts doing the work and cleaning the house,
it makes the woman feel like she's recognized

42:17.580 --> 42:22.000
and he's helping her and they're working as a
team and it’s not really that he's doing the

42:22.000 --> 42:27.719
housework, it’s more a recognition of her needs
and her being overwhelmed, so when he does it

42:27.729 --> 42:32.399
it's almost like
he's just really validating her, and so it

42:32.399 --> 42:36.830
usually tends to make women feel all kinds of
soft and mushy inside when men do that.

42:37.500 --> 42:39.610
And the next thing that happens is they want to
have sex.

42:40.639 --> 42:44.590
I don't know why that works, but it really
makes you feel closer.

42:44.639 --> 42:47.949
So I would say vacuuming is foreplay.

42:49.010 --> 42:53.479
Uh, jeez, I don't know what connection
there is between sex and housework,

42:53.530 --> 42:56.560
but I suppose if you really dug into it,
you'd find something.

42:56.610 --> 42:58.850
But I don't see any real connection
myself.

42:58.969 --> 43:01.830
Yeah, I think if a man is willing to help out
around the house,

43:01.889 --> 43:06.969
you're apt to actually make love a little
more often because you feel better about the

43:06.969 --> 43:11.050
fact that they take responsibility, and then
you're not as tired out.

43:11.129 --> 43:15.649
I mean, we both work, so at the end of the day I
don't want to come home and have to do

43:16.179 --> 43:18.800
all of the stuff myself, even if it's just
a small

43:18.830 --> 43:22.800
thing. If I see that he's participating, then I feel
like I'm not doing as much probably.

43:23.000 --> 43:29.709
When we were early in our marriage and
I was naive and overly sexed,

43:29.719 --> 43:35.760
it was a wonderful theory that got me to vacuum,
but over the years I think I've become

43:35.760 --> 43:38.320
more realistic about its charm.

43:38.909 --> 43:45.790
And I don't really succumb to the siren of
the vacuum as much as

43:45.790 --> 43:46.810
I used to.

43:47.879 --> 43:51.429
Sometimes I think psychologists get a bit hung
up on sex.

43:51.659 --> 43:55.479
I don't think doing chores gives you a better
sex life.

43:55.560 --> 44:02.429
I think sex is like a lot of things: it waxes
and wanes, and sometimes the older you get,

44:02.479 --> 44:04.320
the more it wanes.

44:05.290 --> 44:09.330
This was in a four-year relationship before
this one,

44:09.360 --> 44:14.429
and I definitely built up resentment against my
partner for not cleaning the house,

44:14.679 --> 44:17.030
basically because I didn't want to be cleaning
it all the time.

44:17.879 --> 44:21.510
Yeah, so I think that we had a better sex life
when he was cleaning the house.

44:22.320 --> 44:24.310
Men that clean houses are sexy too.

44:25.469 --> 44:28.310
Well, let's see.
I got mine this morning, and I did two

44:28.310 --> 44:31.939
toilets yesterday, so you can make your own
evaluations from there.

44:32.070 --> 44:36.699
I have to agree, yeah, so I got mine this
morning as well because I did my eaves before

44:36.699 --> 44:43.429
the monsoon set in, and I'm always doing
laundry, so that keeps my wife happy, and she

44:43.429 --> 44:46.669
keeps me happy.
I don't know, my wife seems to do most of the

44:46.669 --> 44:49.379
housework, and I still seem to get it on a
regular basis.

44:49.709 --> 44:51.300
Thank God for shift work.
That's what.

44:52.389 --> 44:56.790
If you take a look at the men who say, well, I,
I won't have anything to do with housework; it's

44:56.790 --> 45:03.320
beneath me, I won't do it, it's your job. Those
men turn out a couple of years later to be very

45:03.320 --> 45:06.070
surprised that their wives don't want to have
anything to do with them sexually.

45:06.379 --> 45:09.060
And they don't understand why. I have that in
mind that,

45:09.179 --> 45:11.889
uh, you know, my wife's supposed to do 100% of
the house chores,

45:11.929 --> 45:15.449
but that's not reality.
That's, that's my dream.

45:15.850 --> 45:20.879
What's your dream scenario for splitting chores?
Uh, dream scenario for splitting chores would

45:20.879 --> 45:24.199
be, um, I don't do any work and Seeley does it
all.

45:43.340 --> 45:44.969
That's a terrible fantasy.

45:45.689 --> 45:49.080
God, that's why they call it a fantasy.

45:50.330 --> 45:53.209
My dream scenario is that the house would look
perfect all the time.

45:56.199 --> 46:03.120
A holy quest, yes, to live in the perfectly
clean house where everything has its

46:03.120 --> 46:06.780
place.
Yes, that is her holy grail.

46:08.709 --> 46:12.610
I guess I would like that there just be less
tension about it all.

46:12.820 --> 46:19.129
Um, I would like there to be just a more general
acceptance of things the way they are.

46:19.500 --> 46:25.689
And as the children get older, I guess my dream
would be that they take on the

46:25.689 --> 46:32.459
quest for the clean house for their mother so
that the strain and guilt that

46:32.459 --> 46:35.060
I feel would reduce with their.

46:35.850 --> 46:38.169
Increased uh participation.

46:39.169 --> 46:40.250
What's your fantasy?

46:41.120 --> 46:45.810
Um, yeah, I guess my fantasy is, um, I come
home from work and,

46:45.820 --> 46:47.939
uh, the housework is done and.

46:48.590 --> 46:55.360
A gourmet dinner is ready for me on the table,
and he's The candles are lit, champagne or

46:56.100 --> 46:57.100
that would be nice.

47:06.219 --> 47:08.610
We're not having children until we've got this
down pat.

47:10.060 --> 47:11.040
Makes me nervous.