A Place Between: The Story of an Adoption
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- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
This is a dramatic story of the reconciliation between biological and adoptive families. But much more than that, it is the journey of a cross-cultural adoptee who struggles to find balance between his families' different ethnicities and traditions and to discover how and where he fits into each world.
Following the tragic death of their younger brother in 1980, Curtis Kaltenbaugh, 7, and his brother Ashok, 4, were removed from their birth mother's care in Manitoba and adopted into a white, middle-class family in Pennsylvania. This film follows Curtis' struggle with his biological family's turbulent history and observes what happens when his biological and adoptive families finally meet
Citation
Main credits
Kaltenbaugh, Curtis (film director)
Kaltenbaugh, Curtis (screenwriter)
Kaltenbaugh, Curtis (narrator)
MacDonald, Joe (film producer)
Other credits
Edited by Kenneth George Godwin; camera, Keith Eidse [and 4 others]; original music by Greg Lowe.
Distributor subjects
No distributor subjects provided.Keywords
WEBVTT
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[music]
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This is my mom, Margaret.
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She lives in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
This is my mom, Tina.
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She lives in Redding, Pennsylvania.
This is my dad, Bob.
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He’s a minister in a Lutheran church.
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This is my brother Ashok. These are
my sisters, Chrissy and Meghan.
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These are my sisters, Avery and Gretel.
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This is my family, the Sullivans.
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This is my family, the Kaltenbaughs.
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And this is me, Curtis. I was born to
Roulette, but along with my brother, Ashok,
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I was raised a Kaltenbaugh in Pennsylvania.
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When I turned 30, I began
to wonder how I fit in
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with these two families.
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[music]
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My brother, Ashok, and I were
taken the Pennsylvania in 1982
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by our new parents, Bob
and Tina Kaltenbaugh.
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I was seven and he was four.
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[music]
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My dad has been a pastor for 30 years.
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I can’t imagine him being anything else.
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Gentlemen, start your markers.
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My mom is approaching 60
faster than she’d like.
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But her energy and enthusiasm
remain undiminished.
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She helps out at the church, working
with neighborhood children.
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[music]
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Life with the Kaltenbaughs
was vastly different
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from the life Ashok and I had known.
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For one thing, we were part
of a stable family now.
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Our lives revolved around the church
and there were a lot of good times.
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And yet, I was always waiting for the rug
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to be pulled out from under us.
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Life seemed too good to be true.
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[sil.]
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When I turned 18, I came back to Winnipeg,
not really intending to stay long
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but after 15 years I’m still here.
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Part of the reason is my
relationship to my birth mom,
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Margaret and her family.
After we were adopted,
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she had two more children, both girls.
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Now, she’s a grandma to eight grandchildren
and works at a women’s shelter.
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There’s a lot of love between us but
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I’m not as close as she’d like me to be.
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[sil.]
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On the outside, I look like an Indian.
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But my family here often
chastises me for acting white.
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But that’s how I was raised.
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Although I live here in Winnipeg,
I still maintain close ties
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with my adoptive parents in Pennsylvania.
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Two families, two races,
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two very different worlds.
Sometimes it sort of feels like
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there are two of me.
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One Curtis relates to the (inaudible),
the other to the Kaltenbaughs,
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but neither feels entirely authentic.
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[sil.]
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I decided to try and bring these
two parts of myself together.
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So I’ve asked both families
if they’d be willing to meet
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and both have nervously agreed.
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Phew,
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I… well, Curtis said he’d like to get
going this afternoon and go see Margaret.
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Yes. Meet Margaret. Oh, boy.
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Today, I only want what’s best for my son,
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what’s best for my kids.
So I agreed to meet this…
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this family. Being a mother,
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you have a fierce heart for your children.
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These people that adopted my sons also
had to have a fierce love and them
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to raise them all these
years that I was not there.
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And I feel today kind of anxious
and nervous at the same time.
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I’m not scared, just,
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umm… anxious to see and
find out about things.
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Carter says she’s feeling positive about
this. Yeah… yeah, I heard him say that.
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So I trust that, his intuition on it.
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I think it’s going to be fine. I think it’s going to
be a lot more than fine. But I’m anxious to see this…
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this and it just kind of walk in and see
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what happens next and
enjoy it, learn from it.
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Have everything? Ticket, parking ticket.
Car keys? Car keys in my pocket.
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Hotel room key? Room key
in my pocket, okay.
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Okay, let’s go. Let’s roll.
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[music]
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Every couple of years, I find
myself going back to Pennsylvania.
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Although my adoptive
parents are getting older,
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they don’t seem to change.
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There’s something reassuring about that.
But this visit feels different.
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This is the first time we’ve ever
really talked about the adoption.
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Ah… here’s a good one. It’s Ashok.
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Where do you think he would have been.
I’m going to say maybe five.
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Oh, yeah. So that… that
was two years then after…
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after we came. Or maybe a year. Yes, I
think he was four… going to be four.
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Um-hum… Um-hum… And I’m
sure yours is there.
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That’s your ornament. Lovely. Nice.
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Ha… what does this say? December 17, 1984.
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It’s one of the… it’s one of
the few survivors of this era…
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Yeah. Because of the medium.
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So what made you and dad decide to adopt. It’s
almost the same kind of question, why have children?
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Yeah. It’s something we always
talked about. We were people who
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wanted more children but we
also had a moral obligation
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not to overpopulate the world. The…
we thought that our parenting skills
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with Avery and Gretel were pretty good.
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We, ah… knew we could love.
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About two years after I was ordained, we were starting
to feel a little more financially secure like,
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hey, we can proceed with this now.
So we decided,
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well, we’d like to look into adoption. And,
you know, you hear the good and the bad
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and the… the extremes and also kind of stuff in between.
You figure you’re going to land pretty much in the middle
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and then in I guess it was
probably October of 81,
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the caseworker came to us and said,
\"We’ve got a couple of boys from Canada
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that we’d like you to think about.\"
This was an agency that specialized
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in adoptions for children who
might be in special needs,
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special cases, older children for one
thing. There were… it wasn’t easy to find
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placements for them, maybe sibling groups.
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And in that case, the boys
fit both of them, right,
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a little bit older and
a couple of brothers.
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They sent us your pictures. And
they were beautiful pictures.
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You were lying on the elbow like
this and Ashok was grinning
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and at that point it was pure
physical, what’s not to love.
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Yeah. And, umm… we got very excited
and you came for a week visit
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and it was just to see how things were.
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Yeah, I remember, umm… when you
guys came for that week and,
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you know, when you guys were… it was getting to where
you were leaving that was like, oh, they’re leaving,
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we… we were sad about it. I mean, we were
definitely excited about, you know, having brothers
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and I know that we thought it was pretty
neat that you were ethnically different,
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you know, and at the time I remember
learning as much as I could about
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the different types of backgrounds you had. And
we said, \"Hey, everything was going great.
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Looks like it’s a reasonably
good match and I don’t know,
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the caseworker must have asked you,
\"Do you guys want to go live here?\"
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And apparently the answer was yeah and so
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the arrangements were made for us to
travel to Winnipeg the end of February
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and to bring you back with
us the first week of March.
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When Bob and Tina came
up to Canada to get us,
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we had been in a foster home for two years.
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Our birth mother Margaret was an alcoholic
and was incapable of looking after us.
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I just have fragments of
memories from those early years.
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My mom passed out on the couch.
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Me trying to wake her.
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Having to change Ashok’s diaper because
there wasn’t anyone around to do it.
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But what I didn’t know until recently
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was that Margaret herself had spent some
time in foster care, having been sent away
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by her family when she was 11 years old.
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When I went to the foster
home, I started questioning,
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how come I was the only one.
And I always felt
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I was the black sheep of the
family, I don’t belong there.
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Why did you start drinking more.
The pain I was carrying,
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the broken past, you own
uncles used to molest us,
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sexually molest us and cousins raping,
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all that stuff was there.
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How much would you drink? Two
or three days at a time,
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thinking I can parent, I could be a mother
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at the same time. Then I had another son.
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Rakesh died while I was out drinking.
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Margaret left us in the
care of a babysitter
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while she went out on one of her binges.
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By the time she returned a couple days
later, our brother had been found dead
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at the bottom of a laundry chute.
He was 16 months old.
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Though I was there,
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I have no memory of that night.
No one knows what happened.
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No one was ever charged
with my brother’s death.
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While the inquest was on,
there was so much ugliness,
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everybody throwing dirt at me.
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Yes, I know, I was an alcoholic
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and I left… I left my kids
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while I was out drinking.
I would like to know
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what really happened. Am I
going to be allowed that
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on this earth?
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I don’t know. I just
live with it day to day
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and there’s just really nothing I can do.
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[sil.]
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I’m haunted by the legacy
of my biological family,
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Rakesh’s death, the alcoholism,
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the suffering and abuse.
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Needing to lay this legacy to rest,
I started looking for Margaret.
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I was 14 and suffocating
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under the weight of this past. I
had a lot of unanswered questions,
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questions which left me
feeling angry and depressed.
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Why had I been given up for adoption?
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Why was she an alcoholic?
Why did Rakesh die?
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I knew that my adoptive parents love me
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but I couldn’t accept their love
because there were things in my past
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that Bob and Tina knew nothing about.
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I felt like they couldn’t see the real me.
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Hoping that Margaret would be able
to understand my pain and confusion,
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I used information from the
adoption papers to find her.
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There was nothing about where
you guys were adopted,
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to who, nothing. So I had no idea
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where you guys were, until
that day you called.
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[sil.]
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I said, is it real?
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And I cried long after
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and some more after I got home.
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You never vocalized to me, I
want to reconnect with Margaret,
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you never vocalized that.
That was a bit of a surprise
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.999
how that unfolded. And what
you used to love to do
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as a child, anything that 1800… 800
number you used to call them to see
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what you could get for free. You do that all
time and so when they said Sandy Bay Reservation
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and he’s looking for his mother,
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I thought you called like
Lake Tahoe for a reservation.
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I said, you know he’s only a kid and he always
calls this 1800 number. I’m his mother.
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This is the wrong… you know, he’s just joking, he
likes to call these numbers. No, this is Sandy Bay
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Indian Reservation, he’s looking for
his mother. And I said, I’m his…
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oh, he’s looking for his mother.
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.999
Oh and I went well, I
don’t know where she is.
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.999
Well, do you have a problem
with the mother contacting you
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and I’m there going, \"Well, no, she
can contact us.\" I didn’t… you know,
00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:09.999
this… things were happening very fast.
That evening
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.999
Margaret called and said something
like, \"This is Margaret,
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.999
I’m Curtis (inaudible) mother,
I want to talk to Curtis.\"
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.999
And it was like you walked in the
door, I handed you the phone.
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.999
And that’s how I knew you
were trying to contact her.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.999
Talking with Margaret after six years
was a tremendous moment for me.
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.999
I was overcome with emotion believing that
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.999
everything I thought was wrong with me would be
made right just by having her back in my life.
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.999
I was really excited and happy and…
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but on the other side was not
knowing when am I going to see them
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or are they going to come home,
are they going to hate me
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.999
or stuff like that. She was
anxious over the phone.
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.999
She wanted to come right away
to Pennsylvania and see you
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.999
that just didn’t…
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especially under the advice of the
counselors we were working with through the
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
adoption agency, that wasn’t a
good advisable thing to do.
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
There was a point where I was supposed to
go see you, right. I bought the bus ticket
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
and I phoned.
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
He said it would be okay for me to come up there and see you
guys. And when I phoned the day I was going to get on the bus,
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he said no. I decided not to ‘cause…
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
and I thought, you nasty old bugger.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
Umm… I cried, I was mad
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
and (inaudible).
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.999
She had an interest in you. She had a parental
connection and she certainly… I could understand
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:09.999
her desire to want to be with
you or for you to be with her.
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.999
She maybe even felt that she
lost those parental rights
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.999
in an unjustified way. I think I understand
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.999
some of the psychological
issues better after hearing
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
from the social workers and
others about that need to keep
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
distinct the place of
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
adoptive families versus
the biological family.
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
[sil.]
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
My brother and I were
able to resign ourselves
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
to the fact that we would each
have to wait until we were 18
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
to see her. Margaret on the other hand
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
couldn’t seem to accept this.
Obviously Bob had to
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
have made up his mind
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
that I was native and he was
white and I found that he was…
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
when I came across him, he was a
better parent because he was white,
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
he was a Christian and I am
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
a little low down because he didn’t
believe that people can sober up
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
and stay sober and change.
That would really piss me off.
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
And I guess I thought if I’d see
him across you, I’d strangle him.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
I’ll show him what the
fuck an Indian is about.
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
You didn’t have any doubts in your mind
when Margaret entered the picture that,
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
hmm… you know, she’s the birth mother
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
and did you question yourself at all like,
do we have the right to keep the kids here.
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
No because you’re mine.
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
The day you walked off that airplane,
first time I set eyes on you,
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
you’re mine, you’re my kid.
It is just like birth,
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
it was just like it. When
you give birth to a baby
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
and they put that baby in your
arms, it’s like this is my baby.
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
When you walked off that
airplane, that’s my son.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
This is the camera.
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
So I’m just going to take some shots.
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
Kind of look reflective like that.
It does… that works as well.
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
My parents knew of Margaret’s past
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
and because they didn’t know for sure
if she was still the same person,
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
they wanted to protect us.
But during the six years
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
since the adoption, Margaret had
made profound changes in her life.
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
I was on a drunk six weeks
straight at a time.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
I didn’t remember what month or what
day, just soak my socks off my feet.
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
My hair hadn’t touched a comb
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
in months or a year. I was living outside
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
cardboard boxes, sleeping wherever I could
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
find a place. But then I’m losing it,
I went crazy. Well, good, at least
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
I don’t have to feel
anymore, I was so sick.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
I didn’t know where to turn.
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
I didn’t want to live anymore so I
took a whole bunch of Valium pills.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
I ended up at St. Boniface Hospital.
They pumped… they pumped me out
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
and that was it. I want to AA
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
three times a day, almost lived there.
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
I had nowhere else to go.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
The first six months were dark
just like you’re in a dark hole,
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
crawl… crawling out step by step.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
You slip back in emotionally and mentally,
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
thinking you would never
see a brighter light.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
[sil.]
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.999
For the first three years, I
learned nothing to do (inaudible),
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:44.999
learn to live with people again,
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
learn to speak,
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
learn to be a… accept myself,
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.999
learn to accept that I have
to live without alcohol.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.999
That is never going to be
part of my life again.
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.999
Then as time goes on, have
dreams of your children
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
talking to you. You feel
loneliness all over again.
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:23.000
[music]
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.999
Although Bob and Tina tried to do their
best in providing us with a safe
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:39.999
and loving home, Ashok and I
seemed to carry the legacy
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
of Margaret’s past with us.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
I internalized my feelings
of depression and alienation
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:54.999
but Ashok, when he reached adolescence,
began acting out in disturbing ways.
00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.999
We often refer
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
to the Ashok years. Those were
the years where Ashok was
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
experimenting with sniffing
gasoline and other drugs and
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
a very stressful time cause
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
we didn’t know what to do with it. And
whenever we tried, it wasn’t working.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
I remember one time, I just talked
to mom about it this… this morning
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:29.999
and I remember Ashok was
having a fight with mom
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.999
and they were screaming
at each other and he had
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:39.999
threatened saying that if I had a knife,
I’d kill you and with a whole lot of
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.999
extra words in there, so.
What did you think, I mean…
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.999
Ah… Right now, you know, looking at it
all in retrospect just a whole lot of
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
anger and thoughts of how… how
dare you do this to your parents
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
and eventually thinking how
dare you do this to my parents.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
And there were other unruly things
I said to be provocative but not…
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
not because I meant it in my
heart, you know, it was more like
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
how do these people deal with racism when I have to deal
with it every day at school but they have no solution for me
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
on how to deal with this and kind of
don’t know how to deal with it with me
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
you know because they’re white. One of my
impressions always of Ashok was that he was really
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
the kind of person who could
make friends quickly and easily
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
and had a wide array of friends
of different kinds of people
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
and I just found kind of surprising
that he ended up being so…
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
so much put on the defensive from a
racist… from some racist behaviors.
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
I come home, (inaudible) not wanting
to say anything to anybody,
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
not wanting to cry and feeling isolated and alone
and be like, hmm… how do I deal with this?
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
And telling them, I remember them telling…
telling dad one day and him being,
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
\"Oh, son, you’re overreacting.\"
Ah… I… I’d have to say that
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
there was not much that that
we did overtly about it.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
And it might have been
due to the fact that…
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
that maybe I didn’t understand
well what… what was going on,
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
but I have to admit I never asked him
whether he wanted me to interfere.
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
That why I don’t know.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
This is the house we lived in
when Ashok who was 13 at the time
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
stole the family car with a friend.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
When they were caught in Maryland, my dad
thought it best to teach him a lesson
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
by having him placed in juvenile detention.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
In the five years that followed,
his behavior became more extreme
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.999
and he was institutionalized
close to a dozen times
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.999
including a stay on a psych
ward after attempting suicide.
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:09.999
I resented that my dad
saw Ashok’s increasingly
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.999
uncontrollable behavior as a
personal attack rather than a sign
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
that there might be something
wrong with the family.
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
We saw the issues as being
mostly, you have to
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
stick with the roles of the
household and show respect
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
and deal with things… and I
guess that was our perspective,
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
that was what I had grown up… had to grow up with.
That’s what I figured he needed to grow up with too.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.999
I think my desire was to just
lay down the law and say,
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.999
here are the consequences
of your actions, yeah.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.999
And… and it wasn’t too particularly
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
successful either because
he continued to act
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
out all the time. I remember him
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
looking up to me and I remember him,
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
you know, he was always there around
me and sometimes I really liked that
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
and sometimes I… just felt invaded
and I didn’t want him around
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
and… because there’s a time
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
when I pushed him away. I don’t
think I was the best brother
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
at times and I think I probably
showed him behaviors that he’s…
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
he’s kind of taken and run with
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
and I feel guilty over that.
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
I feel guilty that I wasn’t there
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
for him emotionally.
00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:03.000
[sil.]
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
Hi. How’s it going. Good. Come on in.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
So how’s it going. Oh, not too bad.
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
So that is the deer meat. Last
time I had it was like years ago.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:24.999
My grandfather was gross.
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:29.999
You’ve been a spoilt white boy.
Where’d you learn this?
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.999
I watch him. Yeah, watching TV. No.
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.999
And human TV. Only that way
you learn to be Indian on TV.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
No, I was just kidding.
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
Maybe you should move in with me
for a while. Oh, I don’t know.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
For Margaret, my coming back here meant
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
I was choosing to embrace my native
heritage. But I don’t feel entitled to her
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
Ojibwe traditions and ceremonies.
I often feel like an impostor
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
and I’m not exactly sure what my
relationship to the culture is.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
My brother however
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
doesn’t share my uncertainty.
Hello. Hey, how are you?
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
The culture gives him a sense of identity
which he believes is rooted in his blood.
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
This is birch, mix with the charcoal. It’ll
burn perfectly, anytime you ever want.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
And this is cedar mixed
with charcoal too. And…
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
There was a lot of experience when I was
young between 13 and 15 with animals
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:44.999
that I knew was way profound beyond
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.999
what they were teaching me, what I could learn in school.
Stuff that people now describe to me as visions,
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
there was something in my spirit and my heart
that was like, I’m so connected to nature
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
in that there is a great potential
here to learn more about myself
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
and to be myself even though I was living in a world
that was totally isolated from my native culture.
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
It was naturally manifesting itself in my world
in a way that I couldn’t talk to people about.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
The reason I wanted that was
that when I came back here
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
I would have something to give back to people who
survived the genocide and who had the bloodline
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
that birthed me and that’s what I’m doing.
I made that dedication
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
since I was 13 and you always asked me, why do you
take this so seriously and why is it so important.
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
It wasn’t important to me, it
was important to my people.
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
So what… what are those for?
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
Oh, they’re different kinds of herbs.
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
Well, how did he… how did it get them and
why did he… Why, he always picks them
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
and he always shares with me
what he picks or what he gets.
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
So sometimes I will use them.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
I wish I could share my brother’s belief in
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
and enthusiasm for Ojibwe spirituality,
but at heart I’m not a believer.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
In fact, I don’t subscribe
to my adoptive family’s
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
spiritual beliefs either.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
I can’t help but feel that the choice
he’s made to embrace the culture
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
is a rejection of Bob and Tina. After all,
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
he hasn’t seen them in eight years.
That’s a choice
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
I’m not willing to make.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
I felt loved as a son cause they had me
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
as a responsibility for so long,
but some of the ideologies
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
and my visions and stuff, I don’t think
were always so highly respected a lot.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
They didn’t know anything about our culture. They don’t
know anything the way Ojibwe sound, (inaudible).
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:08.000
[music]
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.999
I thought to understand myself and create
an identity, to create a place for myself
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:19.999
in this world. And I wish I could see that.
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
[music]
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
The question of where I belong
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
started me on this journey, hoping to bring to
the surface things that have been left hidden
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
and unresolved. It’s an attempt
to better understand myself
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
and maybe integrate these
fragments into a whole,
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
and now that the day of the meeting
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
is actually here, I have no
idea what’s going to happen
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
between my two families and how
this collision will affect me.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
[music]
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
This is really a cool building.
Thunderbird.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
Although I don’t claim Ojibwe culture
as my own, I respect its rituals
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
and practices and the role it plays
in Margaret’s and Ashok’s lives.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
Elder Clarence (inaudible)
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.999
will help guide us through this experience.
This is Bob, my dad.
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.999
Bob, pleased to meet you. Glad to meet you.
Nice to meet you, Tina. Tina.
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
Yes, yes, great. Welcome. Thank you very
much. We’re excited about being here.
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
[sil.]
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
Hi. Good. Yeah?
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
Yeah. How do you feel?
I’m nervous and anxious.
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
Yeah. Let’s get it over with. You ready?
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
Yeah. Yeah. Okay As ready as I’ll ever be.
Let’s do it.
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
But it was a good experience, you know.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
[sil.]
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
Hi. (inaudible).
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
Thank you for watching over them for me.
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
Thank you for letting me love them.
By the way, I’m Tina.
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
I’m Margaret.
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
(inaudible)
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
It’s important to us.
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
Wonderful to meet you. Thank you.
And welcome to Winnipeg. Thank you.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
You have her smile.
(inaudible) has a smile.
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
I’m really actually. I
was nervous coming in.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
We’re very pleased. Me too.
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
I’m so glad you said yes. What
we have here is, uh… sage,
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
to cleanse yourself and the cedar is to
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
cleanse the area of all
spirits, good and bad.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
A fresh start. Yeah a fresh start exactly.
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:33.000
[sil.]
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
I feel, uh… such an excitement,
but I also feel like
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
there is an ending, there’s
a closing to something
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
and an opening to something. I don’t know.
I can’t really explain
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
a lot of things, just
emotions in the heart that
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
it can burst in happiness,
you can, I am just
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
happy we’re all here today that
we can meet and no matter what
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
the past to move on forward
with great friendship.
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
Thank you for coming, it means a lot.
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:53.000
[music]
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:39.999
This is a spirit bowl, food
for the spirits because we…
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.999
each time we sit to eat, it is just not us,
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.999
you know, we also invite the spirits,
our grandfathers, our forefathers
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.999
to come and join us, and this is the
food by which they… they… they share.
00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:03.000
[non-English narration]
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
Now, we can eat.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
Of all the moose hunting I’ve ever, ever done, you know,
right from when I was a young man with my father, sir,
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
I have yet to take the life… I’ve had
a lot of doubts that this meeting
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
would actually take place,
but now that it’s happening
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
I feel overwhelmed. It
brings a feeling of peace,
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
of joy and a sense of possibility.
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
It’s really important for me
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
to have Tina and Margaret connect
on some level. Seeing them hug
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
was amazing. I definitely
feel like there is something
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
watching over us. I don’t want to
make it sound too supernatural,
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
but it just seems like something has helped
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
weave these loose ends together. Do we
know this guy. That’s my other son.
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:29.999
Our other son.
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:38.000
[sil.]
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
Don’t make me cry.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
You have no idea how much I’ve missed you.
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
[sil.]
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
I’ve been waiting for this for so long.
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
Hello, son.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
Hi, dad.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
So good to see you. Yeah,
it’s good to be seen.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.999
You look great. You know you look
fantastic. Is he allowed to eat with us?
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:33.000
[music]
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.999
As intense as this moment has been, it’s
really just the beginning of a week
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.999
of getting to know each
other, at the end of which,
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
we will all get a chance to express
ourselves in a sharing circle.
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:58.000
[music]
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
The next day, Margaret takes us out to
visit with her mom, my grandma, Flora,
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
who lives in the small town of Gladstone.
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
When I was in the foster home, they
had these, they call them shakers,
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
and if we didn’t go to their ceremonies
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
or their get-togethers, we couldn’t eat.
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
You weren’t allowed to eat. We weren’t allowed to
eat. Because in the younger years when I was in…
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
in Llangorse, we were
forced to go to catechism,
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
and learn about god’s love, god’s this.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.999
If God loved us, why did we have
such a hard time in our life?
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.999
I always felt, umm… the Bible was manmade,
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.999
man written. It was. And each
group chooses to believe
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.999
in their way of seeing it. They do.
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:08.000
[sil.]
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
Hello.
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
Hi, remember me? Oh, yeah. (inaudible).
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
Hello, my name is Tina.
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
[non-English narration]
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
You know who these guys are?
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
They, uh… they raised me and Ashok.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
We were adopted down into Pennsylvania.
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
Yeah, these are the people, they raised us.
My dad here, Bob, he is a pastor, a minister.
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
This is the first time they
see an Indian grandma.
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
But she’s still a young chick.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
Yes. They really don’t know (inaudible).
In their time,
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
adoption was leaving the kid at
the door in a basket or a box.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
Okay. That’s what they did
to both grandchildren,
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
Curtis’ grandparents. Oh, really? Yeah.
They were both found at the doorsteps.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:24.999
Interesting. Do you remember at all
these before me and Ashok went away?
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:33.000
[non-English narration]
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
I left the two with her
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
and they came and got you guys.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
Who came and got us? (inaudible).
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
Did you know they were going to come, did they tell
you? No. No. They just showed up and took the children.
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We even tried
to get them to place you guys
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
with family but they wouldn’t go for that
either. Bob and Tina took care of us
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
and there’s one do you know that we want
to a good home and we were looked after?
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
When the boys were in our
house and till today,
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
we always gave them love. Bottom line,
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
no matter what, always love. From
the first time we put our eyes,
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
we saw them, instant love.
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
She understands that, yeah.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:48.000
[sil.]
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
Margaret grew up in a two-bedroom house in
Llangorse with 10 brothers and sisters.
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
Five years ago, the house burned down.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:08.000
[sil.]
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
With lot of memories that
come with coming back here.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
As were growing up those times
we had to look after ourselves,
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
cook ourselves and survive on our own
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
while parents were out drinking
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
or when sometimes when they had visitors from the
reserve, everybody would party, bring beer in.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
Big, big party, Yeah, so.
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
Is that the kind of circumstances that sometimes lead
to you having to live in the foster care or was that.
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
Yeah and also I was stubborn.
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
You are stubborn. Yeah, I didn’t…
So you didn’t always have a good…
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
good working relationship with the folks. No, no.
Sounds familiar to me. I’ve heard that before.
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
I know kids do that. What I was
fighting for was my own identity,
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
but it was taken as a negativeness.
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
Yeah, well, it’s not how we do that
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
because we don’t, especially if parents
don’t know how to encourage independence
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
and encourage searching and thinking
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
and working it through and, you
know, often parents want things
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
not to be different, not to be, you know, you
have to be like this, you can’t be like that.
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
And I was one that I
couldn’t be no matter what.
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
I was whipped with a (inaudible)
stick, I still couldn’t be
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
(inaudible) couldn’t hide.
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
How does it feel for you to come back here? It’s
hard. There are some things I can’t share with you,
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
I don’t share with anybody.
Some memories are very hard,
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.999
but I have to live with it
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.999
because I’m not ready for it, I
have put some of it up already,
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.999
but deep inside it’s
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
not ready to be shared.
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
There are a lot of good
times and lot of bad times.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:38.000
[music]
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
Come on, somebody throw her in.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
Remember to take off your socks.
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
[music]
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
This is (inaudible) take off the socks. She didn’t say can
you take off your socks, she said, \"Curtis, throw Tina in.\"
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:23.000
[music]
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
What do you think of Margaret? Has a lot of
courage to talk about what she’s talking about.
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
Hope you guys know that this is
an opportunity for you guys too
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
to share your (inaudible). Yeah.
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
(inaudible) as people.
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
You feel we haven’t talked
too much about it. No.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
Part of it to me feeling (inaudible)
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
letting her say what she
needs to say and I really…
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
it feels like, you know,
I’m the guest too here,
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
really embracing that, just listening
to everything that she has to say
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.999
about her life and her way and
learn from what she has to say.
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
And I’m really glad that we’re
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
all able to come and visit her.
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
Things don’t come together very
easy after adoption happens
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.999
and I can understand why.
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
Sharing… sharing your children,
and how they raised you
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
and I think the biggest
part is I always felt
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.999
you’re my blood sons and nobody
else can put that claim on you.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.999
And that’s a big issue. It kind
of bothered me at the beginning
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.999
when they kept saying my sons,
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
just because you give them life a little
bit, doesn’t mean that you can claim them
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
as your sons because
that’s selfish thinking
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
and I know it in my heart. I’m also very
thankful like that you guys were safe
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
and came back safe. You
were protected by them
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
and directed by them and
I understand that today
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
(inaudible).
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:48.000
[sil.]
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
One of the things that made
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
to have them issues when I was 18 or 19
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
and unresolved from leaving their
house in the way that I did
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
in leaving the stage that doesn’t seem…
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
I don’t see much of that,
it’s not registering with me.
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
Some of the things I needed
to resolve with them,
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
it’s all out of the window
there as soon as I saw them.
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.999
It was just like, to hell with it,
I don’t really care, you know.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.999
It feels great to be able to see them
again, just to see them, to hug them,
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.999
to be in their lives again.
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
I just noticed that you didn’t talk to…
to Bob and Tina for eight years or so,
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
there’s a reason for that distance,
yeah and order if you want.
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
What do you think it is?
What do you think it is?
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
I don’t know what it is.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
Exactly, I don’t want to get into it, if I don’t want to get into it and say it then why do you keep
asking? I don’t want to get into it, that’s as simple as it gets, Curtis. And what I’m trying to get is,
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
is there something that was going on for you
as a teenager that created that distance.
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.999
No, the thing that I was going through as a
teenager was really struggling with my identity
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.999
and struggling with the fact that I was highly
gifted and growing up with the racism was tough,
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.999
but it made me tough as hell. I mean
I can take a beating and keep on…
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.999
keep on ticking, you know. And I mean that… I mean
that’s what I’ve been fighting most of my life
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.999
is that hatred towards us, man, you
know, just for being brown, being made.
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.999
I was gifted man and that was
the way it was. I knew it,
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.999
but the rest of the world beat me down saying that
you’re chump, I thought about it, man. It was like
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:49.999
I should have been in a school for gifted
children, I should not have been in
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.999
Eugenia Hospital, you know. It may
have been a more positive thing.
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:59.999
They could have tested me out and I would put
my skills to work and I had to wrestle with
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.999
how am I going to use this and
that’s why I’m here. I’m going to…
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:13.000
[music]
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.999
After several days together,
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:24.999
we all need a little breathing room.
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.999
There are a lot of impressions
flooding through me.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.999
It’s hard to sort them all out.
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.999
And bringing my two families together,
it seems like parts of myself
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.999
are coming into focus.
I see the myriad ways
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.999
in which I’m not Indian, yet, I’m surprised
to feel such a strong affinity with Margaret,
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.999
maybe it’s because her life
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.999
and struggle somehow seem more real, but I’ve
become aware of annoying self-consciousness
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.999
of my white middle class upbringing.
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.999
At the back of my mind, I keep thinking
if my parents approve of Margaret,
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.999
I can move forward and embrace
the Indian part of me more fully
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.999
and maybe if Margaret approves
of my adoptive parents,
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.999
it will validate this in-between
place where I find myself,
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.999
but it really feels good to have
both families here together,
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.999
to have my two moms getting
to know each other.
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.999
I’m hoping that everyone
will take the opportunity
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.999
of the sharing circle to create something
lasting and substantial between us.
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:53.000
[music]
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:59.999
Good morning, (inaudible) Hotel.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.999
Yeah, good morning. Can I
have room 1707, please?
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:09.999
Hello. Hi, honey! It’s your mummy. Hi there, I’ve
been… yeah, I’m trying to call. Yeah, I wasn’t sure
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.999
if you’re around or you’re on the phone.
So you’re in the mood for some company.
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.999
I am, yeah. Do you have a big bow around?
I don’t have a big bow, but
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.999
What about an old sock? I have an old sock.
Okay. So you know where I live.
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.999
It’s just down the street from you guys.
Yep. Apartment 15,
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.999
here we are. I can’t see you.
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:39.999
Come in, so this is my main area.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:44.999
(inaudible). Oh! Excuse me, son.
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:49.999
Okay. Nice kitty.
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:54.999
You’re my grand cat. Yes.
Oh, this had died,
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:59.999
it’s not a dive. No. well, it’s small.
It’s, you know, cramped.
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.999
You’re one person. Yeah.
I’ll just throw it up here.
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.999
And Margaret’s kind of told you her story
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.999
and I don’t know exactly what your response is to that.
One part of her story, I can’t remember what she said,
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.999
but in my mind,
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.999
it cemented,
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.999
the adoption.
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.999
I said to myself, \"Oh, yeah, this
is the right thing for me to do.\"
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:39.999
Not that I ever doubt it, I never
doubted it, but something she said,
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:44.999
it’s like, I’m really glad, I was there.
I am really glad,
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:49.999
I said yes. I’m really glad, I did what I
did. What are you thinking about tonight
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:54.999
or this sharing circle?
Not a hundred percent
00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.999
sure what to expect, but when I’m hearing
from it, I’m probably out of my comfort zone
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.999
with regard to this. I could
talk to you about anything,
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:09.999
I could talk maybe even one-on-one,
but having an audience,
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:14.999
you know, if Margaret and I were in a
room, I’d be much more comfortable
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.999
than all these eyes and all these
other people listening in.
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.999
[music]
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.999
The intent here is to hear some feelings
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.999
that you have about what’s happened
to you, you know, and it’s been
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:39.999
30 some odd years this thing has been
going on and you may find some resolution
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.999
and then again you may not,
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.999
but that’s entirely up to you.
You come here with an open mind
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:54.999
and an open heart and we
all come here as friends
00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:59.999
and we should all leave here as friends.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.999
So now, I’m going to pass it on to Curtis.
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:09.999
I’m extremely obliged to you
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:14.999
Clarence for helping us here today.
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.999
I feel good about… of
this whole experience.
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:24.999
It’s one thing to kind of conceive
doing and it’s another think actually,
01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.999
you know, bring about
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.999
and there were times when I was
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:39.999
pretty scared, you know, and I hope
that we’ve been able to kind of,
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.999
you know, be open to…
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.999
to this experience and to take
what we need to take away from it.
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:54.999
It was never meant as a
test or anything like that.
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:59.999
I saw it as a an opportunity.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.999
Words cannot describe how it is to
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:09.999
take your heart out and
give it away for a while.
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:14.999
In order for these two to survive
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:19.999
that’s what I had to do, and then there was
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:24.999
time I was supposed to
go and visit my boys,
01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:29.999
I had the ticket ready
and I got extra money.
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.999
I phoned, everything is okay
and then I phoned the night
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:39.999
before I was leaving and Bob,
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.999
he said I couldn’t come
and that shattered me.
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.999
If I would have made it to the states, you
would have been a dead man. They have to think
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.999
what made you judge me that
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.999
I couldn’t come and see my boys after all
these years. I was searching for them.
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.999
And who’s god that you’re following
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.999
to not let me come. Today, Bob,
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.999
I understand that you had to protect him,
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.999
that you would thought that they
were going to be yours forever.
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.999
Today, I am here Bob to forgive you for
that pain you instilled in my heart
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.999
so sharply.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.999
And Curtis, and I told you with your heart
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:39.999
I’ve long to get to know
me and your family,
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.999
but those barriers that are keeping
you, I am totally giving your heart
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.999
to us and believing in us.
Yes, couple of times I thought
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.999
maybe you were better off where they are,
you already learnt to live that way,
01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:59.999
they don’t want to be needed,
they want to be there,
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.999
I can live with that. You both are men now,
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:09.999
not little boys now. I really don’t
have to do anything anymore,
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.999
just be part of your life as you want me
to be, but I’m there if you want to talk,
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.999
I’m there if you need me, and I
leave you on to the greatest love
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.999
(inaudible).
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:29.999
I find you,
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:34.999
Margaret, a woman of great courage,
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:39.999
great courage to have the foresight to say,
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.999
it’s not safe how I am with my boys.
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:49.999
As a mother, I cannot
imag… imagine your pain,
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:54.999
I cannot. When Curtis said, yes,
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.999
Margaret will be part of
this, I was delighted.
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.999
When you embraced me,
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:09.999
whatever concerns I had,
whatever nervousness
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.999
I had evaporated
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.999
when we first met and we hugged.
This has been
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:24.999
a tremendous honor and a blessing for me,
01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:29.999
I’m just a mom.
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.999
That’s all I am in this, just a mom, who
loves her kids, who wipe their noses,
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.999
who hugged them, who taught them, who
when they said they were going to Canada,
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.999
took a deep breath and wondered
will I ever see them again.
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:49.999
So not exactly what you felt,
a little bit will I ever
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.999
see them again.
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:59.999
Coming back was joyful
and hard for both boys
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.999
and both of them I’m sure
love the relationship
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.999
they have with you know and
want more because if not
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:14.999
this wouldn’t happen.
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.999
You will always be their mother, no matter what.
I’ll always be their mother, no matter what.
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.999
You’ll always love them, no matter what.
I’ll always love them, no matter what.
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:29.999
Seeing these boys again always
puts my heart in a right place,
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.999
puts my mind and spirit in a right place.
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.999
[sil.]
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.999
Well, before I start off with the
thing, everybody that is here,
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.999
I want you to know that I love you very
much. I tell people about you guys a lot.
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:54.999
Your love and patience for me
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:59.999
is only the greatest gifts you can ever give me, you
know. I mean… I said… I do sit on some guilt about
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.999
some of the horrible things I’ve said to you,
you would never deserve to hear these things
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.999
and I have yelled at you, I have
been mean and cruel, but I love you
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:14.999
and I’ve learned a lot from what you taught
me and who you allowed me to be, you know.
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.999
You’re my family and now
I have a better sense
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:24.999
of my identity, what I belong
to, my role in my community.
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.999
I’m happy with the decisions that I’ve
made that have led to this, you know,
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.999
you’d be giving us up and there was no way I could have grown
up here in Winnipeg, I would have been dead by now, guaranteed.
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:39.999
I could not have survived here
with the character of who I am
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.999
and what I’ve going through. I know I could have not have survived
here, no way. I mean, I thought I’d have a bunch of issues
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.999
that I’d have to say from the
past but when I think about it,
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.999
it was worth it, all of it was worth
it for me to become who I am today.
01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:59.999
And it’s good to see you all.
That’s about it for me.
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.999
[sil.]
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.999
Clarence, thank you. Thank you for
01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:14.999
presiding with us, for helping to lead us.
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:19.999
Ashok, I forgive you for being an angry
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.999
and frustrated young man because
we couldn’t prevent that.
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:29.999
You know, I believed it was part
of trying to offer you boundaries
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.999
because so much of what you were
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.999
experimenting with was so destructive
and hurtful. And we had to say,
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.999
these are boundaries you cannot
cross because we love you
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.999
and I hope that you as well
can forgive us for being
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:54.999
sometimes stern and tough.
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.999
Margaret, our intention was not
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:04.999
to judge you or to hurt you,
we relied on the advice
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.999
and direction of some who
felt they knew what was best
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:14.999
and we… we cannot change that past,
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.999
we can take what we have now
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:24.999
and make it good and I really appreciate
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:29.999
greatly
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.999
your openness and willingness to take this,
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.999
to move to forgiveness from
what you had felt before.
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.999
I have learned a lot in
these last several days,
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.999
from Clarence, from you.
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:54.999
As I take each day as a day to learn,
01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:59.999
I look forward to what I
learn the rest of this day.
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:04.999
A lot of good words.
01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:09.999
I see hope, open mindedness,
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:14.999
love, but most importantly, you know,
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.999
to have a family come together like this,
to be able to say the things that…
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.999
that I’ve heard here.
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:29.999
And to be able to sit there and…
and take those, that’s love.
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.999
And there is no question about that.
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:39.999
And I’m really honored I
am part of this process,
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.999
being seeing this. I want to
thank each and every one of you.
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.999
So this is the end right here
and carry it and go back.
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:54.999
What am I going to do with this?
01:09:55.000 --> 01:10:03.000
[music]
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:34.999
It was good to see you, mom. Thank you.
It was wonderful to see you.
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.999
(inaudible).
01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:44.999
It was good to see you, dad.
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:49.999
Oh, it was good to have you here.
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.999
[sil.]
01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:59.999
This is wonderful.
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:04.999
Good having you here.
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:09.999
You did… you did great. Great
event all year around.
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:18.000
[music]
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:29.999
This experience has brought me
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.999
the closest I’ve ever
been to Ojibwa culture.
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:39.999
And I have a deeper appreciation
of what that world has to offer.
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:44.999
But bringing my two families
together hasn’t created
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:49.999
the larger family I wanted.
Margaret having met Bob and Tina
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:54.999
isn’t really interested in pursuing
that relationship further.
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.999
For her, this meeting has been enough.
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.999
And Ashok’s still doesn’t have much
to do with our adoptive parents.
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.999
Seeing them all together though
01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:14.999
has brought about a little clarity for me.
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:19.999
For one thing, adoption saved my life.
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.999
Sure it gave me a sense of
dislocation, but for the first time
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:29.999
I realized that maybe this
isn’t such a bad thing.
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:34.999
Through the willingness of both families to
overlook their differences and meet for my sake,
01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:39.999
I can see that their love is there
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:44.999
and that’s something I
wasn’t always able to see.
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:49.999
My life has been shaped
by these two families,
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.999
by their two worlds, but
I choose not to let
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:59.999
either one completely define me.
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:05.000
[sil.]