WEBVTT

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(projector running)

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(soft music)

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- [Woman] Are you ready?

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- [Steve] I don\'t even
know how to begin, so.

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- [Woman] Okay.

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- [Attiya] Are you all right?

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- [Steve] Mmm, hm hmm.

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- Jenny, you let us know
if we start babbling.

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Did you say yeah?
Okay.

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Um...

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So the first question
is to describe

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the day that we met,

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if you remember.
(snickering)

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- Yeah, I think you were 17.

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- [Attiya] 16.

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- Really?
- [Attiya] Yeah.

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- And I was turning 18?

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- [Attiya] Yeah.
- Right.

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- [Attiya] Yeah. Right?
A year and a half difference?

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- Yeah. You had...

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You had saucer eyes for me.
(laughing)

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It was, it was nice.

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I remember you
wearing all black.

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And I...

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how I fell for you, yeah.

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Just a girl I wanted
to get to know.

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And that was it.

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I knew I had to be with you.

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- You okay?

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I mean the reason I asked
the first question is the day

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that we met is
because for me that\'s...

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the most-- it was
a very happy day.

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- It was a great day.
- The day we met.

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It was an amazing day.

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It was the amazing day,
I feel like.

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- I didn\'t wanna
let go of that day.

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(soft music)

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- [Attiya] I didn\'t think
you\'d actually show up

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for that first conversation.

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(soft music)

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I had been shocked
when we started running

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into each other in Toronto,

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years after I had
escaped from you.

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I was still haunted
by the memories

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of the time we lived together.

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(melodramatic music)

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I couldn\'t believe
you agreed to discuss

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the abuse you inflicted on me.

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(soft music)

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I sensed that the conversation
would be as important

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to you as it was for me.

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It had been twenty years,

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and now I finally had
a chance to get some answers.

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Now I know I remember,

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within the first
couple weeks, right,

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I think may have
been the first time

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that any abuse happened.

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Like it happened quickly.

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Do you remember that?

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- No.
- Okay.

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Do you remember the first time
of being physically abusive?

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- No.

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- Okay.

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May I ask you if,

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had you ever been physically
abusive to anyone before me?

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- No. It was--
- It\'s okay.

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- I was so young then.
- Yeah.

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- You know, you were
my first real girlfriend.

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(Steve exhales loudly)

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- Do you...

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Do you remember the
frequency of the abuse?

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How often or?

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- No, I just know
that it wasn\'t good.

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And I don\'t even know why.

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- If you were to think back,
and, um...

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would you be able to
describe the kinds of,

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or sort of abuse that
there was, that went on?

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- Oh, yeah.

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That\'s the stuff that
never leaves your mind.

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Um...

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I remember choking you.

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I don\'t really remember hitting
much but I remember that.

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- And do you think
that there\'s any--

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was there anything
that prompted your actions?

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Do you know what I mean?
Like did anything,

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do you feel like
it was something like,

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was it something I would do
and then you would get angry,

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or do you feel like it
was just anger in general?

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- I can\'t remember
there being any...

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any specific trigger
or something like that.

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I, clearly haven\'t
remembered this.

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- Hmm hmm.

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How would you have preferred
the relationship to be?

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- Well, we\'d still
be together, wouldn\'t we?

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(melodramatic music)

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(women greeting each other)

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- [Attiya] Alright,
so have a seat.

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- [Woman] Thank you.

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- Does that make sense to you?
- [Woman] It does.

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- Yeah? Great.

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I\'m gonna give you a
list of numbers actually,

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just so you have them in case.

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But if you leave me a message,
I\'ll call you back

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on my next shift.
- [Woman] Okay.

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- But this is the
Assaulted Woman\'s Helpline

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so you can call them 24 hours,

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24 hours a day,

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and it\'s completely
confidential.

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So if you\'re, you know,

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I know last time
you left a message,

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it was pretty early
in the morning...

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- [Attiya] Women are
always asked why we stayed.

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But I had questions for you.

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(inaudible dialogue)

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I wanted to know if the memories
of violence stayed with you.

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If you felt as damaged
as I did.

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But we needed help.

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I remember when I asked if
you would see a counselor,

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you said that if you could help

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even one man not
choose violence,

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then it\'d be worth it.

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- [Man] So Steve,

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I\'ve seen the footage
of you and Attiya

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in terms of that initial
conversation that you had.

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I really did have,

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you know a number of
questions in terms of,

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you know, expressing anger
in a relationship, you know.

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There\'s lots of things to be,

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you know, important
things to be angry about.

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Injustice, unfairness,
you know,

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that we should be angry about.

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What are your
thoughts about how you

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would want to express that?

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- That, that is something
that is ongoing.

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Um, anger, there\'s,
um, there\'s arguments,

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there\'s disagreements,
there\'s fights,

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and then there\'s a clear line
where there\'s abuse.

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- So if we have a conversation
with Attiya, you know,

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and my hunch
is that probably some

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of that past
relationship issue

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that probably still not healed.

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What difference do you
think it might make

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if we studied some
of that abuse now,

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in preparation even for
that kind of conversation?

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- What, the insecurity
and where I was?

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- Yeah, and some
of the behavior,

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and the choices that got made.

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So, looking honestly
at the abuse,

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like you\'re saying.

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Are you okay with
my asking about the abuse?

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- Yeah.
- Yeah, okay.

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What are some of the things
that you remember doing?

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(Steve sighs)

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What are the things
that stand out for you?

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And there\'s probably
stuff she remembers,

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and probably stuff
you remember.

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- We\'re talking
what exactly I did?

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- [Tod] Yeah, yeah.
Were there names?

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- Yeah, I\'m sure.

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- Do you remember what
some of those names were?

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- [Steve] Mmm...

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- [Tod] Bitch? Slut?

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- I\'m-- I\'m absolutely positive
that it got worse

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and more colorful than that.

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Um... It\'s funny, I...

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- [Tod] Did it
include those words?

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- Oh, absolutely.

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But more it\'s, um...

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the physical stuff I remember.

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- [Tod] All right,
can I ask you about that?

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- Sure.

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- [Tod] What do you remember?

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- Just choking, punching.

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- [Tod] Mm hmm.
Choking, punching.

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Is there any particular incident
that stands out for you?

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- There\'s plenty.

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- Would you be willing to
talk about one of them?

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- You know, almost every
instance was unbelievable.

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There was one day...

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Attiya had fainted.

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- Do you know where you were?
- In our place.

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These things only take place in,

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where you can get away with it,

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where it isn\'t seen.

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- And when you say
she fainted,

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so this was an
incident that happened?

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- Absolutely.
- [Tod] Or there was abuse?

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- [Steve] Mm hmm.

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- Do you remember
how it started?

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- Not at all.

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You know, these things

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come unprovoked.

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Most of the time.
- [Tod] Yeah.

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And so do you remember what
the conversation was about?

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- Actually I don\'t even remember
there being a conversation.

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I just remember myself
acting out and I...

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- [Tod] And what did you do?

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- I\'m trying to actually

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figure that out right now.

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I think I woke up,
and I don\'t know

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if there\'s words said or what,

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but I remember just
tossing her off the bed.

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And, um...

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- [Tod] So when you say
tossing her off the bed,

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did you, how did you grab her?

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- It was just like that.

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- What\'s your thoughts
about what was going on

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through your mind
at that point?

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- Well, obviously I\'d never
want it to happen again.

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Um, how do I make up for this?

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How do I make it right?

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- [Tod] What were some
of the things

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that you tried to do to?

00:12:58.125 --> 00:12:59.143 position:20%
- It\'s strange, you know.

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I always tried
the best I could

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within our means back then
to show appreciation.

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But it all becomes
null and void

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the second
you get angry again.

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So it just cancels
out everything

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so you start from ground zero,
over and over again.

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And a matter of fact,
it just gets worse.

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- Right.

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\'Cause what were you
realizing afterwards

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were the effects
of what you were doing?

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- (deep exhale) Well...

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the last thing
you really want,

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and it\'s really
weird with control,

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is that you don\'t want
someone scared of you.

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But at the same
time with control,

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it\'s, when you slip
into it, you do.

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- So you can acknowledge that?
- Yeah.

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- In terms of
her being scared?

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- Absolutely.
- Yeah, yeah.

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Was that something that you
were willing to acknowledge,

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you know, back then?

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- Not initially.

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- [Tod] What\'s it like for
you to acknowledge that,

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you know,
she was afraid of you?

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- I can\'t be happy with that.

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- When you look back,

00:14:05.626 --> 00:14:08.975 position:20%
what were some of the
justifications and excuses

00:14:08.999 --> 00:14:13.268
that got you acting,
you know, against your values?

00:14:13.292 --> 00:14:15.975
- Well, after an event,
you would always

00:14:15.999 --> 00:14:20.602 position:20%
allow yourself to think about it
but not enough to refrain.

00:14:20.626 --> 00:14:21.975
- [Tod] Yeah.

00:14:21.999 --> 00:14:23.975
So you\'d feel
some shame afterwards?

00:14:23.999 --> 00:14:25.560
- Of course.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, it\'s not of course,
but it is for you.

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It\'s not a given.

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- No, that\'s when
you start trying to make up

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for lost ground or
over make up for lost ground.

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You start treating
the person, you know...

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- Kind of like the hollow
promises and the apologies,

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that kind of stuff?
- Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:44.999 --> 00:14:48.185
- [Tod] And what were some
of those that you did?

00:14:48.209 --> 00:14:49.976
- Well, of course,
that things will change

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or that, you know,
it won\'t happen again.

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And of course they do.

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But what\'s interesting is
that when I say these things,

00:14:58.876 --> 00:15:02.685
at that moment I really
want those things.

00:15:02.709 --> 00:15:05.268 position:20%
Like, who doesn\'t wanna be
in a healthy relationship?

00:15:05.292 --> 00:15:10.959
So I don\'t understand
that cycle for me.

00:15:13.209 --> 00:15:15.584
(soft music)

00:16:20.918 --> 00:16:23.626
(melodramatic music)

00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:53.810 position:20%
- [Attiya] I remember
that last time you hit me.

00:16:53.834 --> 00:16:56.334
The last time anyone hit me.

00:17:00.167 --> 00:17:03.518 position:20%
I had just finished
working a shift in a club,

00:17:03.542 --> 00:17:06.999
you had been watching me
all night.

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I remember feeling your
hands around my neck.

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I remember thinking,
this is so unfair

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\'cause I thought
I had left you for good

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a few days before.

00:17:19.999 --> 00:17:23.226
The violence
was supposed to stop.

00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:26.000
(melodramatic music)

00:17:29.999 --> 00:17:31.560 position:20%
I thought,
how am I supposed to work

00:17:31.584 --> 00:17:33.101 position:20%
until 2:00 in the morning,

00:17:33.125 --> 00:17:35.351
be stalked, hit,
and strangled,

00:17:35.375 --> 00:17:37.999
and wake up for school
the next morning?

00:17:44.999 --> 00:17:47.768
But then I realized
I could do it,

00:17:47.792 --> 00:17:52.167
\'cause I\'d been doing it every
day for the past two years.

00:17:55.626 --> 00:17:57.059
And with that thought,

00:17:57.083 --> 00:17:58.727
I pushed you off me,

00:17:58.751 --> 00:18:01.602
kicked off my heals and ran.

00:18:01.626 --> 00:18:04.042
(intense music)

00:18:37.959 --> 00:18:39.852
- [Tod] So Attiya,

00:18:39.876 --> 00:18:42.976 position:20%
Steve and I have been talking
already, in conversation.

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.185
A lot of that conversation
focused around

00:18:46.209 --> 00:18:48.975 position:20%
what\'s important to
Steve and Steve\'s values,

00:18:48.999 --> 00:18:52.310
and also, you know,
wanting to

00:18:52.334 --> 00:18:56.685
take responsibility for
the harms that were done to you

00:18:56.709 --> 00:18:59.975
in your relationship
20 years ago.

00:18:59.999 --> 00:19:01.894
And sometimes people
who have been harmed

00:19:01.918 --> 00:19:03.476 position:20%
find it helpful to
actually have acknowledged

00:19:03.500 --> 00:19:07.435 position:20%
what those harms were and to
actually speak about that.

00:19:07.459 --> 00:19:10.810
Is there a particular incident

00:19:10.834 --> 00:19:12.226
that stands out for you?

00:19:12.250 --> 00:19:15.976
- Well, the first
thing I think of is

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.476 position:20%
in our first conversation,

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:21.894 position:20%
I, um, brought up
an incident that happened

00:19:21.918 --> 00:19:26.059
and at the time,
Steve didn\'t fully remember it.

00:19:26.083 --> 00:19:30.727
And it\'s one of the incidents
that kind of sticks in my mind.

00:19:30.751 --> 00:19:32.059
It was just sort of
one of those days

00:19:32.083 --> 00:19:35.975
when you wake up and
the abuse started right away,

00:19:35.999 --> 00:19:37.018
and throughout the entire day.

00:19:37.042 --> 00:19:38.975
You know, I feel like
it got to a point

00:19:38.999 --> 00:19:40.643 position:20%
where it didn\'t escalate,

00:19:40.667 --> 00:19:41.768
it just happened.

00:19:41.792 --> 00:19:44.976
And it was just bad immediately.

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.975
I mean, I remember mostly
just a lot of swearing,

00:19:49.999 --> 00:19:51.852 position:20%
right, a lot of \"fuck you.\"

00:19:51.876 --> 00:19:53.975
- What would he say?
\"Fuck you\", what else?

00:19:53.999 --> 00:19:57.250
- I feel like I don\'t
remember the words entirely.

00:19:58.500 --> 00:19:59.975
But, you know,
I remember at one point,

00:19:59.999 --> 00:20:01.975
I\'m trying to remember
the set-up of our,

00:20:01.999 --> 00:20:02.976 position:20%
that apartment on Stirling.

00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.101 position:20%
But I remember there being,

00:20:05.125 --> 00:20:07.975 position:20%
I don\'t know if it
was a closet or something

00:20:07.999 --> 00:20:09.476 position:20%
in that main room where...

00:20:09.500 --> 00:20:10.935
- (clearing throat)
There was a shelf.

00:20:10.959 --> 00:20:11.975
- There was a shelf.
- Yeah.

00:20:11.999 --> 00:20:13.975
- I remember
being against that wall

00:20:13.999 --> 00:20:17.101
and just being, like
on the ground and,

00:20:17.125 --> 00:20:19.018
yeah, Steve punching me
and hitting me

00:20:19.042 --> 00:20:21.310
and I was down already
and crying.

00:20:21.334 --> 00:20:24.894
Like it felt very,
it was common, let\'s just say.

00:20:24.918 --> 00:20:26.310
So at that point,
I was just--

00:20:26.334 --> 00:20:29.975
I just remember defending myself
and just being like,

00:20:29.999 --> 00:20:31.976 position:20%
this is how life is now so,

00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.351
you know, curl up,
defend your, you know,

00:20:34.375 --> 00:20:37.975
I remember always trying
to protect my head.

00:20:37.999 --> 00:20:41.935
And, um...

00:20:41.959 --> 00:20:45.810
you know I remember, you know,
I\'d be crying and,

00:20:45.834 --> 00:20:47.059
the thing about
this incident was,

00:20:47.083 --> 00:20:50.643 position:20%
remember I had that
heart-shaped jewelry box?

00:20:50.667 --> 00:20:52.310
- I do.
- The little glass one.

00:20:52.334 --> 00:20:54.602
And I don\'t remember
who gave it to me

00:20:54.626 --> 00:20:56.602
but I didn\'t have
very many things,

00:20:56.626 --> 00:20:58.810
and it was special.

00:20:58.834 --> 00:20:59.810
And I remember you grabbed it

00:20:59.834 --> 00:21:02.059
and threw it against
the wall and it smashed.

00:21:02.083 --> 00:21:05.810
And I remember
just being dragged

00:21:05.834 --> 00:21:07.185
across that glass
and that\'s where...

00:21:07.209 --> 00:21:09.852
- Cut your knee.
- [Attiya] The knee...

00:21:09.876 --> 00:21:11.976
- Were you afraid?

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.810
- I was afraid, yes.

00:21:13.834 --> 00:21:15.975
- [Tod] What were you afraid of?

00:21:15.999 --> 00:21:18.894 position:20%
- I mean, I was afraid...

00:21:18.918 --> 00:21:21.476
I was afraid
I\'d never get out of it,

00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:23.393
you know, the abuse
wouldn\'t stop.

00:21:23.417 --> 00:21:27.768
I was afraid that...
- [Tod] And therefore what?

00:21:27.792 --> 00:21:28.975
- That I\'d be killed.

00:21:28.999 --> 00:21:31.059 position:20%
I thought I was gonna die.

00:21:31.083 --> 00:21:35.584
- [Tod] What was it like
living with that day after day?

00:21:46.125 --> 00:21:50.018
- (deep exhale)

00:21:50.042 --> 00:21:52.226
You know, it was,
it was very--

00:21:52.250 --> 00:21:55.334
It was hopeless.
It felt hopeless.

00:21:55.999 --> 00:21:58.852
But there, yeah, I just felt
like there was nothing that,

00:21:58.876 --> 00:22:00.476
there was nothing that
I could do about it

00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:03.602
and it was just
a matter of time.

00:22:03.626 --> 00:22:05.059
- [Tod] Steve, I\'m wondering
if you\'d be willing

00:22:05.083 --> 00:22:07.975
to say what you
hear Attiya saying

00:22:07.999 --> 00:22:11.918
in terms of what her
experience of that was.

00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.935 position:20%
- She was terrified of me

00:22:17.959 --> 00:22:19.101
and she thought
she was gonna die.

00:22:19.125 --> 00:22:22.185
- [Tod] Why don\'t you tell her?

00:22:22.209 --> 00:22:24.542 position:20%
- You were terrified of me.

00:22:30.999 --> 00:22:33.667
You thought
you were gonna die.

00:22:42.959 --> 00:22:47.476
- [Practitioner]
Bring awareness to the throat,

00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:52.209
the neck, the jaw,

00:22:53.999 --> 00:22:57.999
right cheek, left cheek,

00:22:59.959 --> 00:23:04.125
the nose and tip of the nose.

00:23:05.999 --> 00:23:09.999
Right eye, left eye,

00:23:12.999 --> 00:23:15.976
the forehead,

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.476
crown of the head,

00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.268
the whole head,

00:23:22.292 --> 00:23:25.602
the whole face,

00:23:25.626 --> 00:23:29.685
the whole front of the body,

00:23:29.709 --> 00:23:31.999
the whole body.

00:23:34.167 --> 00:23:36.751
(soft music)

00:23:42.167 --> 00:23:46.476
Inhaling...

00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.143
and exhaling.

00:23:49.167 --> 00:23:51.975
Five, four, three...

00:23:51.999 --> 00:23:54.975
- [Attiya] I am so angry
at times,

00:23:54.999 --> 00:23:57.393
but I\'m afraid
that if I say the wrong thing

00:23:57.417 --> 00:23:59.417
you\'ll get up and leave.

00:24:03.959 --> 00:24:07.727
I feel sorry for you
and then guilty,

00:24:07.751 --> 00:24:10.768
as if I am excusing
the horrific violence

00:24:10.792 --> 00:24:12.810
you had subjected me to.

00:24:12.834 --> 00:24:15.584
(melodramatic music)

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.560
You\'re cute.

00:24:34.584 --> 00:24:35.768
(coat zipper zipping)

00:24:35.792 --> 00:24:36.560
- [Elliot] Thank you.

00:24:36.584 --> 00:24:39.268
- [Attiya] All right,
so you have the rest of them?

00:24:39.292 --> 00:24:40.975
- Yeah, they\'re in my pocket.

00:24:40.999 --> 00:24:44.935
- [Attiya] I kind of
want it higher, though.

00:24:44.959 --> 00:24:46.975
Sorry.
(laughing)

00:24:46.999 --> 00:24:48.518
There you go.

00:24:48.542 --> 00:24:49.894 position:20%
I\'ll see you soon.
- [Husband] See you soon.

00:24:49.918 --> 00:24:50.975
(lips smacking)
- [Attiya] Bye, love.

00:24:50.999 --> 00:24:52.975
- [Elliot] Bye, mom.
- [Attiya] See you soon.

00:24:52.999 --> 00:24:54.999
- [Elliot] Okay.

00:24:59.542 --> 00:25:00.518
- [Attiya] Bye.

00:25:00.542 --> 00:25:03.083
- [Husband] Bye.
- [Elliot] Bye.

00:25:12.626 --> 00:25:13.976
- [Elliot] I\'m just
gonna count.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:15.975
- You\'re just gonna count?
- [Elliot] Yeah.

00:25:15.999 --> 00:25:19.351
- You don\'t wanna hand them out?
- [Elliot] No, I don\'t.

00:25:19.375 --> 00:25:21.435
- Are you sure you don\'t
wanna hand them out?

00:25:21.459 --> 00:25:23.393
- [Elliot] Yeah.

00:25:23.417 --> 00:25:25.476
- Did you come to the vigil
last year or no you didn\'t?

00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:27.351
- [Elliot] What\'s that?

00:25:27.375 --> 00:25:29.852
- A vigil is basically a way

00:25:29.876 --> 00:25:31.768
way of remembering
people who died.

00:25:31.792 --> 00:25:33.999
- [Elliot] No.

00:25:37.209 --> 00:25:40.000
- [Dad] I think this
is probably Michael.

00:25:44.542 --> 00:25:47.083
Hi, yes, how are you?

00:25:53.999 --> 00:25:55.185
Hi there. It\'s a
White Ribbon Campaign,

00:25:55.209 --> 00:25:59.268
it\'s men\'s action
to end violence against women.

00:25:59.292 --> 00:26:00.975
Thanks very much.

00:26:00.999 --> 00:26:01.976
It\'s the White Ribbon Campaign,

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:03.852
it\'s men\'s action to
end violence against women.

00:26:03.876 --> 00:26:04.975
Sir, can I interest
you a white ribbon?

00:26:04.999 --> 00:26:06.975
It\'s the campaign
of men speaking out

00:26:06.999 --> 00:26:08.435
against violence
against women.

00:26:08.459 --> 00:26:10.709
(man whistling)

00:26:12.999 --> 00:26:14.643
Hi, sir. It\'s the
White Ribbon Campaign,

00:26:14.667 --> 00:26:16.975
it\'s men speaking out against
violence against women.

00:26:16.999 --> 00:26:18.310
Just raising awareness.

00:26:18.334 --> 00:26:19.143
Just showing support basically

00:26:19.167 --> 00:26:20.975
against violence against women,
thanks so much.

00:26:20.999 --> 00:26:24.999
- [Elliot] 30. You got 30 dad!

00:26:28.999 --> 00:26:31.417
(melodramatic music)

00:26:46.999 --> 00:26:49.059
- [Tod] So just catch me up.

00:26:49.083 --> 00:26:51.975
You were being dragged
across the floor.

00:26:51.999 --> 00:26:52.975
- [Attiya] Hm hmm.
- Yeah.

00:26:52.999 --> 00:26:57.999
Were you yelling during
that time or screaming?

00:26:58.626 --> 00:27:00.975
- I don\'t think so.
- I don\'t think so.

00:27:00.999 --> 00:27:04.059
I think I was silent,
you know.

00:27:04.083 --> 00:27:06.310 position:20%
- [Tod] Right, terrified.

00:27:06.334 --> 00:27:07.975
- Uh-huh.

00:27:07.999 --> 00:27:10.709
- [Tod] And then what happened?

00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:18.185 position:20%
- Um, I remember sort of,

00:27:18.209 --> 00:27:21.518
I remember being
dragged to the bed

00:27:21.542 --> 00:27:26.727
and, um,
you know, hit more.

00:27:26.751 --> 00:27:29.685
- [Tod] How were you being hit?

00:27:29.709 --> 00:27:32.268
- Um... like punched.

00:27:32.292 --> 00:27:35.435
- [Tod] Where were
you being punched?

00:27:35.459 --> 00:27:37.792
- Um, in the face.

00:27:40.334 --> 00:27:41.975
- [Tod] How many
times do you think

00:27:41.999 --> 00:27:44.459
you were being
punched in the face?

00:27:50.709 --> 00:27:52.125
- A lot.

00:27:52.999 --> 00:27:55.999 position:20%
- [Tod] And then what
happened in this incident?

00:28:00.709 --> 00:28:05.059
- So our faces were
really close and I was,

00:28:05.083 --> 00:28:08.143 position:20%
I remember just being done.

00:28:08.167 --> 00:28:10.768
I just felt bruised everywhere,

00:28:10.792 --> 00:28:13.542
I felt limp, I had no energy.

00:28:14.542 --> 00:28:18.685
And I\'m lying there
and I\'m thinking,

00:28:18.709 --> 00:28:20.226
please stop.

00:28:20.250 --> 00:28:21.975
Just please stop.

00:28:21.999 --> 00:28:23.018
Stop. I can\'t--

00:28:23.042 --> 00:28:26.000
I don\'t think my body
can do this anymore.

00:28:27.417 --> 00:28:29.852
And, um,

00:28:29.876 --> 00:28:32.768
and then
I just remember boom!

00:28:32.792 --> 00:28:35.852
You know, and you
head-butted me.

00:28:35.876 --> 00:28:39.018
And I remember that\'s when
I think I kind of was,

00:28:39.042 --> 00:28:40.727
when I was unconscious.

00:28:40.751 --> 00:28:44.975
And then I remember--
I remember waking up.

00:28:44.999 --> 00:28:48.975
And then I do
remember you crying,

00:28:48.999 --> 00:28:51.918
you know, and saying
you were sorry.

00:28:52.792 --> 00:28:56.975 position:20%
But in that moment when I opened
my eyes up and I was done,

00:28:56.999 --> 00:28:58.268
I remember saying,

00:28:58.292 --> 00:29:02.310
I don\'t know what I said to
you but I may have just said,

00:29:02.334 --> 00:29:03.310
\"Fuck, Steve.\"

00:29:03.334 --> 00:29:05.975
Right, like I think
I was just, \"Fuck.\"

00:29:05.999 --> 00:29:08.976
Like you can\'t do
this to me anymore.

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.727
- [Tod] Had Steve ever
said he\'s sorry before?

00:29:11.751 --> 00:29:14.935
- Yeah, he would say
he\'s sorry after.

00:29:14.959 --> 00:29:16.393
- [Tod] What was it like hearing

00:29:16.417 --> 00:29:18.351
Steve say he was sorry?

00:29:18.375 --> 00:29:19.975
- By this point,

00:29:19.999 --> 00:29:22.643
uh, it didn\'t
really have meaning.

00:29:22.667 --> 00:29:26.059
It was, I mean, I remember,
like in my mind

00:29:26.083 --> 00:29:28.727 position:20%
I can picture being
there and it\'s just like,

00:29:28.751 --> 00:29:29.643 position:20%
you\'re just kind of like,

00:29:29.667 --> 00:29:31.768
you\'re rolling your eyes
and you\'re like, \"Come on.\"

00:29:31.792 --> 00:29:35.059
It\'s almost like you know,
you\'re not fooling me.

00:29:35.083 --> 00:29:35.975
You\'re not sorry.

00:29:35.999 --> 00:29:38.268
- Would you be
angry to hear that?

00:29:38.292 --> 00:29:39.975 position:20%
- [Attiya] Mm hmm, mm hmm.

00:29:39.999 --> 00:29:42.018
- [Tod] What was
the anger about?

00:29:42.042 --> 00:29:45.435
- Well, it\'s like

00:29:45.459 --> 00:29:46.975
someone\'s apologizing to you

00:29:46.999 --> 00:29:49.602
while laughing at you, you know?
(laughing)

00:29:49.626 --> 00:29:51.101
It\'s like it doesn\'t have any,

00:29:51.125 --> 00:29:53.852
it doesn\'t, it does
have meaning actually,

00:29:53.876 --> 00:29:56.643
but it\'s not
that you\'re sorry.

00:29:56.667 --> 00:29:58.999
It\'s confusing.

00:30:00.876 --> 00:30:02.101
At the time
I remember thinking,

00:30:02.125 --> 00:30:04.810
well, if you\'re sorry, stop.

00:30:04.834 --> 00:30:07.476
It\'s easy to say
but that\'s, you know...

00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:09.999
- [Tod] Right, right, right.
- Just stop.

00:30:11.459 --> 00:30:13.602
- [Tod] Who\'s responsible
for Steve

00:30:13.626 --> 00:30:15.310
continuing to hit you?

00:30:15.334 --> 00:30:16.935
- Steve.

00:30:16.959 --> 00:30:19.643
It wasn\'t necessarily
that I thought I was responsible

00:30:19.667 --> 00:30:22.935
but I thought,
as I was saying it,

00:30:22.959 --> 00:30:23.975
like \"Fuck, Steve,
this has got to\"--

00:30:23.999 --> 00:30:26.810
I knew that he wouldn\'t
be pleased with that.

00:30:26.834 --> 00:30:30.643
But you have to f--
stand up somehow and,

00:30:30.667 --> 00:30:33.685
and that was maybe what
I was trying to do.

00:30:33.709 --> 00:30:36.059
But I also really wanted
it to stop, right?

00:30:36.083 --> 00:30:37.935
- [Tod] Of course.
- And you have to have

00:30:37.959 --> 00:30:40.975
a voice somehow,
at certain points.

00:30:40.999 --> 00:30:42.226
And this was bad.

00:30:42.250 --> 00:30:44.876
I had nothing, I was...

00:30:47.083 --> 00:30:49.393
There was nothing left really,

00:30:49.417 --> 00:30:50.975
in terms of energy and,

00:30:50.999 --> 00:30:54.059 position:20%
you know this was
my first real relationship

00:30:54.083 --> 00:30:55.894 position:20%
and we\'re living together

00:30:55.918 --> 00:30:57.185
and we\'re 17.

00:30:57.209 --> 00:30:58.185
- Yeah, that too.

00:30:58.209 --> 00:31:01.393
- And I didn\'t know
what a good--

00:31:01.417 --> 00:31:02.976
like I knew this wasn\'t good

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.894
but I just thought,
this was how life is.

00:31:06.918 --> 00:31:07.975
This is what happens.

00:31:07.999 --> 00:31:13.476
This is what your boyfriend does
and defend yourself

00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:15.560
and hope that you don\'t get
hurt too much

00:31:15.584 --> 00:31:18.459
and hope that maybe you can
de-escalate it.

00:31:19.709 --> 00:31:23.167
- [Tod] What are you hearing
in what Attiya\'s saying?

00:31:30.292 --> 00:31:32.935
- You don\'t remember, do you?

00:31:32.959 --> 00:31:34.727
- It makes sense now,
the glass,

00:31:34.751 --> 00:31:37.476
the heart-shaped glass thing.
- Yeah.

00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:38.975
- I don\'t recall throwing it.

00:31:38.999 --> 00:31:41.975
I remember you
cutting your knee.

00:31:41.999 --> 00:31:43.810
And at that junction,

00:31:43.834 --> 00:31:45.226
I remember carrying you
to the hospital.

00:31:45.250 --> 00:31:47.975
I don\'t remember
how much anger

00:31:47.999 --> 00:31:51.167
and how twisted it was.

00:31:55.083 --> 00:31:56.975
- [Tod] Can you
handle her talking

00:31:56.999 --> 00:31:59.125
about those kind of details?

00:32:02.918 --> 00:32:04.999
- Yeah.

00:32:08.209 --> 00:32:09.351
- So then he head-butted you?

00:32:09.375 --> 00:32:11.975 position:20%
- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.
- And what happened next?

00:32:11.999 --> 00:32:14.268
- I got up to try
and get away.

00:32:14.292 --> 00:32:16.518
And at that point,
like I was really weak

00:32:16.542 --> 00:32:19.518
and so it didn\'t,
it didn\'t take much,

00:32:19.542 --> 00:32:22.101
right, to...

00:32:22.125 --> 00:32:24.935
I just had no energy
to be able to keep running.

00:32:24.959 --> 00:32:28.976
And so I remember just
stopping and looking at him.

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.975
And then he turned me around

00:32:31.999 --> 00:32:34.685 position:20%
and that\'s when, you know,

00:32:34.709 --> 00:32:36.500
you gave me the sleeper.

00:32:38.042 --> 00:32:40.999
- [Tod] Steve,
do you remember that?

00:32:49.999 --> 00:32:52.125 position:20%
Can I ask you about that?

00:32:53.375 --> 00:32:57.975
What do you mean by
\"the sleeper\"?

00:32:57.999 --> 00:32:59.560
- It\'s where you
put your hands on,

00:32:59.584 --> 00:33:02.999
it\'s strangling
until you pass out.

00:33:05.918 --> 00:33:07.751
Oh, God.

00:33:11.083 --> 00:33:13.810
So it was just something
that was easy to do

00:33:13.834 --> 00:33:15.727
at a certain point and,

00:33:15.751 --> 00:33:17.351
you know when you\'ve
had that done a lot,

00:33:17.375 --> 00:33:21.226 position:20%
it doesn\'t actually take
much to have you pass out.

00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:23.852
And my neck was so swollen
and used to it

00:33:23.876 --> 00:33:25.518
that it-- it would just,

00:33:25.542 --> 00:33:28.999
you\'d go like this and
I would faint, you know.

00:33:33.542 --> 00:33:36.185
- [Tod] What\'s it
like to recall that?

00:33:36.209 --> 00:33:38.310
- Fuck, I hate that one.
I just hate it.

00:33:38.334 --> 00:33:43.975
(disbelieving laugh)
Oh, God, oh, God.

00:33:43.999 --> 00:33:46.975
(big exhale) It\'s the form
of violence

00:33:46.999 --> 00:33:52.975 position:20%
that I feel like-- it\'s very
symbolic, you know, right?

00:33:52.999 --> 00:33:54.727
Like when someone has
their hands around you,

00:33:54.751 --> 00:33:56.894 position:20%
like your life is
literally in their hands.

00:33:56.918 --> 00:34:01.975
And I always thought, fuck,
this is the way I\'m gonna die.

00:34:01.999 --> 00:34:05.101
And I always wondered like,
who did that to you?

00:34:05.125 --> 00:34:07.975
I always thought someone
must have done that to you,

00:34:07.999 --> 00:34:10.999 position:20%
you know, to do it to me.

00:34:11.584 --> 00:34:13.310
You don\'t have to answer.
It\'s always something

00:34:13.334 --> 00:34:18.059
that I\'ve wondered,
you know, to have something

00:34:18.083 --> 00:34:21.918
that\'s so violent
but so easily used.

00:34:24.584 --> 00:34:27.518
- Steve, do you remember that?

00:34:27.542 --> 00:34:29.751
(Steve clearing throat)

00:34:31.999 --> 00:34:34.334
- I do now.

00:34:36.751 --> 00:34:39.975
My recollection was
I tossed you off the bed

00:34:39.999 --> 00:34:42.185
and you passed out.

00:34:42.209 --> 00:34:44.393
You cut your knee.

00:34:44.417 --> 00:34:46.792
I carried you to the hospital.

00:34:49.292 --> 00:34:51.959 position:20%
It\'s much worse than that.

00:34:57.667 --> 00:35:02.959
What you\'re reminding me of
is the level of anger.

00:35:04.999 --> 00:35:07.560 position:20%
Not quite hate, but anger.

00:35:07.584 --> 00:35:09.751
- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.

00:35:11.375 --> 00:35:13.476
- When you look back
at it as an adult,

00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:16.143
what were you taking
out on Attiya?

00:35:16.167 --> 00:35:17.476
- Absolutely everything.

00:35:17.500 --> 00:35:18.975
- [Tod] And what was
everything?

00:35:18.999 --> 00:35:21.560
Had you experienced violence?

00:35:21.584 --> 00:35:24.626
- Mm hmm, yeah.

00:35:24.999 --> 00:35:27.018
- [Tod] Do you think there\'s
any relationship between

00:35:27.042 --> 00:35:28.810
that experience and
what was going on there?

00:35:28.834 --> 00:35:29.852
- Definitely.

00:35:29.876 --> 00:35:32.393
- [Tod] Can you just speak
to that for a second?

00:35:32.417 --> 00:35:35.393
- It\'s an incapacity to
deal with your own feelings

00:35:35.417 --> 00:35:36.975
in a productive way.

00:35:36.999 --> 00:35:39.852
It\'s just explosive

00:35:39.876 --> 00:35:43.751
and it always happens to
the one that\'s closest to you.

00:35:49.334 --> 00:35:51.975
And not with you,
it\'s more about my experience

00:35:51.999 --> 00:35:54.185
before I came
to live with you.

00:35:54.209 --> 00:35:56.375
- [Attiya] Hmm hmm.

00:35:59.125 --> 00:36:02.834
- [Tod] And what did you
hear her say about her neck?

00:36:05.792 --> 00:36:07.975
- (deep exhale)
That is was already swollen,

00:36:07.999 --> 00:36:10.018
that I had probably done it--

00:36:10.042 --> 00:36:11.643
and I had done it,

00:36:11.667 --> 00:36:13.792
many, many times.

00:36:16.125 --> 00:36:17.975
- [Tod] Do you think Steve
is picking up what you--

00:36:17.999 --> 00:36:20.351
some of what
your experience is?

00:36:20.375 --> 00:36:21.852 position:20%
I mean,
it\'s resonating with some

00:36:21.876 --> 00:36:24.560
of his own experiences
of being hurt.

00:36:24.584 --> 00:36:28.975
Do you think he\'s getting what
you\'re talking about?

00:36:28.999 --> 00:36:30.975
- I do, yeah.
Like, I don\'t know--

00:36:30.999 --> 00:36:32.185
I knew that I kind of came here

00:36:32.209 --> 00:36:35.975 position:20%
and I really wanted to
talk about this incident.

00:36:35.999 --> 00:36:38.518
And, um, I mean it\'s one that,

00:36:38.542 --> 00:36:40.975
well, it\'s also because
for the longest time

00:36:40.999 --> 00:36:42.351
it\'s the one that
I would you know,

00:36:42.375 --> 00:36:45.268
one of the ones that
I would have nightmares about,

00:36:45.292 --> 00:36:48.918 position:20%
you know, or that
I was the most afraid of.

00:36:50.542 --> 00:36:53.975
And I think I wanna
let this incident go.

00:36:53.999 --> 00:36:56.626
(soft music)

00:37:07.626 --> 00:37:09.351
- [Practitioner]
Okay, well things have

00:37:09.375 --> 00:37:11.935
certainly settled down nicely.

00:37:11.959 --> 00:37:13.975
(soft music)

00:37:13.999 --> 00:37:17.999
- [Attiya] There are some things
I can\'t bring myself to ask you.

00:37:20.375 --> 00:37:22.310 position:20%
The way you called me ugly,

00:37:22.334 --> 00:37:25.268
a Paki, you had
a thousand ways to say

00:37:25.292 --> 00:37:27.602
how deserving
I was of being hit,

00:37:27.626 --> 00:37:31.167
spit on, made fun of
because I was brown.

00:37:33.999 --> 00:37:35.685
There are some hurts
that stay deep

00:37:35.709 --> 00:37:37.768
and hidden in the body.

00:37:37.792 --> 00:37:39.999
(soft music)

00:37:50.999 --> 00:37:52.852
- [Attiya] Hi!

00:37:52.876 --> 00:37:55.560
- [Seth] Good to see ya!
- [Attiya] Good to see you.

00:37:55.584 --> 00:37:56.602
How are you doing?

00:37:56.626 --> 00:37:59.310 position:20%
Seth entered my life
when you and I were close

00:37:59.334 --> 00:38:00.976
to the end
of our relationship.

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:03.975
- It\'s a bit of a walk.
- Like how long?

00:38:03.999 --> 00:38:07.685
My memories of this
time are unclear.

00:38:07.709 --> 00:38:10.351
I needed to know
what he remembered.

00:38:10.375 --> 00:38:12.268
To ask why he had intervened,

00:38:12.292 --> 00:38:13.476
when no one else did.

00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.976
- [Seth] I think
the crazy thing,

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:16.185
and I mean you\'ve said this,

00:38:16.209 --> 00:38:19.351
is that to people
that didn\'t know,

00:38:19.375 --> 00:38:20.975
he was a really nice guy.
- [Attiya] Yes.

00:38:20.999 --> 00:38:23.810
- [Seth] Like he seemed totally
normal and friendly and,

00:38:23.834 --> 00:38:27.975
and fun, and so I think we
did get along in that sense.

00:38:27.999 --> 00:38:29.810
- [Attiya] Well,
he could be that, right?

00:38:29.834 --> 00:38:32.685
I think that\'s
part of the point.

00:38:32.709 --> 00:38:34.768
- Part of the whole thing
at that time was

00:38:34.792 --> 00:38:37.226
me and my friends were
always just kind of

00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:39.476
wanting to be heroes,

00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:41.310
we wanted to be super heroes.

00:38:41.334 --> 00:38:43.975
And like you were this
person who seemed,

00:38:43.999 --> 00:38:49.560
and was, like totally sweet
and seemed very just innocent.

00:38:49.584 --> 00:38:53.810 position:20%
And there was just so many
horrible things happening.

00:38:53.834 --> 00:38:55.852
And so initially
it was just like

00:38:55.876 --> 00:38:59.476
this is a great opportunity
to like help somebody.

00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:00.685
- So there came a point

00:39:00.709 --> 00:39:05.268
where you decided to
hang out with him,

00:39:05.292 --> 00:39:06.975
and it was kind
of like a plan.

00:39:06.999 --> 00:39:09.476 position:20%
Is that right?
- Yeah, I thought it was,

00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:11.351
there were times when

00:39:11.375 --> 00:39:14.476
we worked out that you
needed to do something

00:39:14.500 --> 00:39:16.101
or you just needed time,

00:39:16.125 --> 00:39:19.018
so we would try
to hang out with Steve

00:39:19.042 --> 00:39:22.999
to give you time on your
own or something like that.

00:39:25.083 --> 00:39:26.560
- [Attiya] Once
we started dating,

00:39:26.584 --> 00:39:30.643
I feel like we didn\'t
talk about Steve and I

00:39:30.667 --> 00:39:31.685
and what had happened.

00:39:31.709 --> 00:39:34.560
- [Seth] I remember
it being a big component

00:39:34.584 --> 00:39:37.894
of what happened.
- Okay.

00:39:37.918 --> 00:39:40.518 position:20%
I mean in a way I think
you have the most details

00:39:40.542 --> 00:39:42.894
in terms of like
when it was happening

00:39:42.918 --> 00:39:45.185
and when we first
got together, right,

00:39:45.209 --> 00:39:47.185
about what actually happened.

00:39:47.209 --> 00:39:49.268
- I didn\'t know how
to help you.

00:39:49.292 --> 00:39:49.975
- [Attiya] Right.

00:39:49.999 --> 00:39:53.226
- (laughing) I didn\'t know what
to do with any of that.

00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:54.435
- But I think what you,

00:39:54.459 --> 00:39:57.393
who you were helped me,
right?

00:39:57.417 --> 00:39:58.810
\'Cause you were like

00:39:58.834 --> 00:40:02.975
super loving and
caring and gentle.

00:40:02.999 --> 00:40:05.268
(laughing) In a way,
I don\'t know how you put up

00:40:05.292 --> 00:40:07.185 position:20%
with me right after that.

00:40:07.209 --> 00:40:10.560
- For me, it was hard to be,

00:40:10.584 --> 00:40:14.018 position:20%
\'cause I didn\'t have, like now
I think I have more skills

00:40:14.042 --> 00:40:15.976
on how to be there to listen

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:21.375 position:20%
and try not to fix,
but just try to be there.

00:40:22.250 --> 00:40:25.268
And I think I kind of
did that \'cause,

00:40:25.292 --> 00:40:27.143
I don\'t know,
I cared about you

00:40:27.167 --> 00:40:30.476
and that\'s about all
I could do.

00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:33.709
But, uh, I don\'t know.

00:40:34.959 --> 00:40:37.185
- Which was huge, right,

00:40:37.209 --> 00:40:40.435
to be listened
to considering...

00:40:40.459 --> 00:40:43.975
you know, when I was with
Steve I couldn\'t talk, right?

00:40:43.999 --> 00:40:47.602
I wasn\'t heard,
I didn\'t have any voice.

00:40:47.626 --> 00:40:50.101
So I think, I mean,

00:40:50.125 --> 00:40:53.727
when I look back on it
the truth is like I see you,

00:40:53.751 --> 00:40:58.435
you know, and your group
of friends, you know,

00:40:58.459 --> 00:41:02.768
like you guys actually
saved me, you know.

00:41:02.792 --> 00:41:05.268
Like I don\'t,

00:41:05.292 --> 00:41:06.685
if you hadn\'t
come into my life,

00:41:06.709 --> 00:41:09.584
like I actually
think I\'d be dead.

00:41:19.125 --> 00:41:21.626
(train whistling)

00:41:36.042 --> 00:41:38.999
(melodramatic music)

00:42:19.125 --> 00:42:21.667
(telephone ringing)

00:42:27.209 --> 00:42:29.935
- [Husband] Hey Babe.
- [Attiya] Hi love.

00:42:29.959 --> 00:42:31.310
- [Husband] How are you doing?

00:42:31.334 --> 00:42:34.310
- [Attiya] I\'m a bit, um,
you know,

00:42:34.334 --> 00:42:36.999
anxious about going tomorrow.

00:42:39.667 --> 00:42:42.518
Steve and I are
gonna kinda check out

00:42:42.542 --> 00:42:44.727 position:20%
the apartments basically,

00:42:44.751 --> 00:42:47.975
both places that
we lived in together.

00:42:47.999 --> 00:42:51.518
- [Husband] When\'s the last time
you were at the,

00:42:51.542 --> 00:42:53.999
at those apartments?

00:42:54.667 --> 00:42:56.975
- [Attiya] I think
I was with you.

00:42:56.999 --> 00:42:59.351
- [Husband] So that would
have been the summer

00:42:59.375 --> 00:43:01.667
before we got married.

00:43:03.584 --> 00:43:05.185
That would have been

00:43:05.209 --> 00:43:08.059
a little more
than a decade ago.

00:43:08.083 --> 00:43:09.518
- [Attiya] Okay. Wow!

00:43:09.542 --> 00:43:10.975
- [Husband] So that\'s
a long time ago.

00:43:10.999 --> 00:43:14.976
- [Attiya] Yeah, and did we go
to both apartments?

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.101
- [Husband] I think we only
went to one apartment.

00:43:17.125 --> 00:43:19.185
- [Attiya] Okay, yeah.
That was the first place

00:43:19.209 --> 00:43:20.975 position:20%
that Steve and I lived at

00:43:20.999 --> 00:43:23.834
once we had left mom\'s place.

00:43:24.999 --> 00:43:28.685
We\'re gonna actually
go in the school.

00:43:28.709 --> 00:43:31.143
That\'ll be interesting.

00:43:31.167 --> 00:43:32.351
Yeah, I remember everything,

00:43:32.375 --> 00:43:34.959
but I don\'t remember the school.

00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:38.975
I think it\'s \'cause
when I was there

00:43:38.999 --> 00:43:40.975
it was just like
I wasn\'t really there.

00:43:40.999 --> 00:43:44.975
I was always kind of thinking
about other things and,

00:43:44.999 --> 00:43:48.059
yeah, it\'s just, blah.

00:43:48.083 --> 00:43:50.975
- [Husband] Yeah.
- Yeah, all right babe.

00:43:50.999 --> 00:43:53.975
Well, I\'ll talk
with you tomorrow.

00:43:53.999 --> 00:43:56.768
And you can call me
in the morning if, or

00:43:56.792 --> 00:43:59.975
if Elliot wants to
talk with me in the morning

00:43:59.999 --> 00:44:00.935
give me a ring.

00:44:00.959 --> 00:44:02.852
- [Husband] Okay,
we\'ll call you tomorrow.

00:44:02.876 --> 00:44:03.435
- Okay, love.

00:44:03.459 --> 00:44:04.975
- [Husband] Okay,
sleep well, love you.

00:44:04.999 --> 00:44:06.268
- Love you too.

00:44:06.292 --> 00:44:08.351
- [Husband] Bye.
- Bye.

00:44:08.375 --> 00:44:10.959
(melodramatic music)

00:44:29.876 --> 00:44:33.643
- [Steve] Wooo, you can start
to get the feeling already.

00:44:33.667 --> 00:44:35.310
- [Attiya] (large exhale)
Yeah, the...

00:44:35.334 --> 00:44:36.810
- [Steve] The building...
- That\'s Stirling.

00:44:36.834 --> 00:44:39.101
- That\'s Stirling!
- With the houses all.

00:44:39.125 --> 00:44:41.685
Looks about right.

00:44:41.709 --> 00:44:45.560 position:20%
You can kind of see it
and remember this already.

00:44:45.584 --> 00:44:49.918
- That wasn\'t there,
the little park.

00:44:50.792 --> 00:44:51.975
It\'s cute.

00:44:51.999 --> 00:44:55.709
I wish some of this stuff
was here when we lived here.

00:45:19.542 --> 00:45:21.959
(clears throat)

00:45:34.918 --> 00:45:37.542
Are you cool
with starting here?

00:45:41.250 --> 00:45:43.975
- I\'ll leave my bag.
- [Attiya] Okay.

00:45:43.999 --> 00:45:44.975
- You\'re gonna leave it?
- Yeah.

00:45:44.999 --> 00:45:47.751
- I think I\'ll leave mine too.
I\'ll just grab my...

00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:53.975
I don\'t know.

00:45:53.999 --> 00:45:55.999
I\'m gonna bring this.

00:46:03.083 --> 00:46:05.000
Shall we?
- Yeah.

00:46:06.709 --> 00:46:09.417
(melodramatic music)

00:46:12.999 --> 00:46:14.268
- It was brick, right?

00:46:14.292 --> 00:46:16.602 position:20%
- [Steve] It certainly was.

00:46:16.626 --> 00:46:18.999
(soft music)

00:46:38.375 --> 00:46:40.602
- It\'s all new.

00:46:40.626 --> 00:46:43.268
- [Attiya] It\'s like they
just slapped that stuff over.

00:46:43.292 --> 00:46:45.792
Right?
- Yeah.

00:46:47.999 --> 00:46:50.167 position:20%
- And this was just vacant.

00:46:57.709 --> 00:46:59.810
Have you ever come back here?

00:46:59.834 --> 00:47:01.976
- Never, no.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.143
- I came back like
I think twice,

00:47:05.167 --> 00:47:07.999 position:20%
just, you know, to see it.

00:47:12.334 --> 00:47:15.768 position:20%
I remember sometimes
this is where I would sit

00:47:15.792 --> 00:47:18.250 position:20%
if I ran out or whatever.

00:47:19.042 --> 00:47:22.226
Or had to get out.

00:47:22.250 --> 00:47:24.542 position:20%
And I would just sit here.

00:47:30.918 --> 00:47:34.018
And what I can\'t stand
even more is like,

00:47:34.042 --> 00:47:35.852
like... I don\'t know.

00:47:35.876 --> 00:47:39.226 position:20%
For me I remember all
like bungalow houses there

00:47:39.250 --> 00:47:41.268
but I remember
just like escaping.

00:47:41.292 --> 00:47:42.435
- [Steve] It was a purple house.

00:47:42.459 --> 00:47:44.393
- It was
a purple house, right?

00:47:44.417 --> 00:47:46.768
And I remember I\'d like
run out the door,

00:47:46.792 --> 00:47:50.975
run that way,
and no one would help, right.

00:47:50.999 --> 00:47:53.560
And like I remember--
I actually remember people,

00:47:53.584 --> 00:47:57.226
well, one house specifically
closing their curtains,

00:47:57.250 --> 00:48:01.975
you know, when I was like
yelling and screaming for help,

00:48:01.999 --> 00:48:03.768
I\'d just run and no one,

00:48:03.792 --> 00:48:07.751
no one on this
street ever helped.

00:48:08.918 --> 00:48:10.435
You would think though
like that one person

00:48:10.459 --> 00:48:14.999
on the entire street
would have helped.

00:48:20.999 --> 00:48:23.727
We should probably go soon
but I think I might...

00:48:23.751 --> 00:48:24.393
- Yeah?

00:48:24.417 --> 00:48:26.351
- I think I\'m gonna puke.
- For real?

00:48:26.375 --> 00:48:28.685
- [Attiya] I\'m gonna go
to the side of the building.

00:48:28.709 --> 00:48:29.643
- Are you serious?

00:48:29.667 --> 00:48:32.417
- Yeah I feel
like I\'m gonna throw up.

00:48:36.999 --> 00:48:38.059
- [Steve] Do you want
to just...

00:48:38.083 --> 00:48:41.417
- [Attiya] Oh, God,
yeah, the side.

00:48:48.042 --> 00:48:50.125
- [Steve] Attiya?

00:48:50.876 --> 00:48:52.185
- [Attiya] I\'m trying
to make it come up.

00:48:52.209 --> 00:48:54.185 position:20%
- [Steve] I know, I know.

00:48:54.209 --> 00:48:55.310 position:20%
Do you mind me being here?

00:48:55.334 --> 00:48:58.351
- [Attiya] No, no, not at all.

00:48:58.375 --> 00:49:00.500
(heavy breathing)

00:49:14.125 --> 00:49:14.894
Did you just--

00:49:14.918 --> 00:49:16.975
do you block that
place out of your mind?

00:49:16.999 --> 00:49:19.727
Or have you
ever thought about it?

00:49:19.751 --> 00:49:21.602
- Um...

00:49:21.626 --> 00:49:23.751
I think about it but...

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.459
For the most part
I block it out.

00:49:31.834 --> 00:49:33.560
- For me, I think
the biggest thing is...

00:49:33.584 --> 00:49:38.518
(large exhale) even though
I felt like I was gonna puke,

00:49:38.542 --> 00:49:42.975 position:20%
it\'s like there\'s
something about going back

00:49:42.999 --> 00:49:47.768
with you and seeing that place
and feeling safe.

00:49:47.792 --> 00:49:49.518
You know, it\'s
like a different...

00:49:49.542 --> 00:49:51.685
- I never thought about that.

00:49:51.709 --> 00:49:53.560
- Yeah.
- It didn\'t dawn on me.

00:49:53.584 --> 00:49:55.852
- So for me
it\'s like huge, right,

00:49:55.876 --> 00:49:57.393
to be able to go

00:49:57.417 --> 00:50:02.292
stand there with you
and know that I\'m safe.

00:50:04.626 --> 00:50:07.334
- I\'ll probably
never come back here.

00:50:16.834 --> 00:50:18.975
- [Attiya] We had to leave
Stirling, was that the deal?

00:50:18.999 --> 00:50:20.560
- [Steve] Oh yeah.
- [Attiya] Yeah, okay.

00:50:20.584 --> 00:50:22.476
- [Steve] We didn\'t
have to leave,

00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:23.975
but we chose to leave.

00:50:23.999 --> 00:50:28.976
We were moving into
a situation with a roommate.

00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:30.560
- [Attiya] Oh yeah.

00:50:30.584 --> 00:50:33.185
- [Steve] I took that as

00:50:33.209 --> 00:50:36.351
an opportunity to put us
in a situation

00:50:36.375 --> 00:50:40.975
where I couldn\'t...

00:50:40.999 --> 00:50:42.959
act out.

00:50:58.167 --> 00:51:00.768
Shit, would that be
our bedroom?

00:51:00.792 --> 00:51:03.709
- [Attiya] Yeah,
that\'s the bedroom.

00:51:08.083 --> 00:51:10.935
- Does this place get to you?

00:51:10.959 --> 00:51:11.727
- Yeah.
- Yeah.

00:51:11.751 --> 00:51:12.685
- Yeah, it doesn\'t,
it doesn\'t--

00:51:12.709 --> 00:51:16.768 position:20%
not in the same way in that
the other apartment does,

00:51:16.792 --> 00:51:20.975
but, again, I think for me
it was the whole like,

00:51:20.999 --> 00:51:23.976
we came here--
I didn\'t realize that you had--

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.935
that\'s interesting to me
that you were

00:51:25.959 --> 00:51:26.976
also really
hopeful moving here

00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:28.975
because someone else would be in
the house with us...

00:51:28.999 --> 00:51:32.975
- Yeah, I just wanted someone
to keep things in check.

00:51:32.999 --> 00:51:34.975
- Right.
- Right.

00:51:34.999 --> 00:51:39.310
- And I mean I can\'t...

00:51:39.334 --> 00:51:41.975
obviously a lot
of abuse happened here

00:51:41.999 --> 00:51:46.518 position:20%
but, for me, I had to like,

00:51:46.542 --> 00:51:49.018
what it meant,
it\'s just that I had to

00:51:49.042 --> 00:51:50.435 position:20%
try and be quiet about it.

00:51:50.459 --> 00:51:51.935
- Do you know what I mean?
- Mmm.

00:51:51.959 --> 00:51:54.268
- Like you had to...
- Back to that...

00:51:54.292 --> 00:51:55.975
- I had to...

00:51:55.999 --> 00:52:01.417
I tried not to make it sound
like there was violence.

00:52:05.542 --> 00:52:07.999
- I don\'t remember much
from here.

00:52:15.417 --> 00:52:17.999
(melodramatic music)

00:52:46.999 --> 00:52:50.685
- [Steve] I think our lockers
were right around here.

00:52:50.709 --> 00:52:52.351
Oh, actually just right here.

00:52:52.375 --> 00:52:54.459
- [Attiya] Really?
- [Steve] Yeah.

00:52:56.042 --> 00:52:59.476
In this section.
- We had them together?

00:52:59.500 --> 00:53:00.975
- Yeah.

00:53:00.999 --> 00:53:02.185
- I was never
in this classroom.

00:53:02.209 --> 00:53:05.143
I remember you
being in this one.

00:53:05.167 --> 00:53:07.768 position:20%
Did you get along with him?

00:53:07.792 --> 00:53:09.975
- Very well.
- Yeah, I remember that

00:53:09.999 --> 00:53:12.643 position:20%
there was one teacher that
you really got along with.

00:53:12.667 --> 00:53:15.018
- He would, um, I remember
the first day I came in

00:53:15.042 --> 00:53:18.975 position:20%
I was late,
and he kind of berated me

00:53:18.999 --> 00:53:21.125
and I really shot back at him.

00:53:21.999 --> 00:53:25.351
But during class,
you know,

00:53:25.375 --> 00:53:28.435
I realized that
respect is respect

00:53:28.459 --> 00:53:32.602
and I interrupted the class
and I apologized.

00:53:32.626 --> 00:53:37.143
And from that point forward,
he had quite

00:53:37.167 --> 00:53:39.351
a great degree
of respect for me.

00:53:39.375 --> 00:53:40.143
- Huh.

00:53:40.167 --> 00:53:43.852
- But going forward
he actually also knew

00:53:43.876 --> 00:53:45.685
what was going on.
- He did?

00:53:45.709 --> 00:53:48.894
- Yeah, yeah.
- How do you know that?

00:53:48.918 --> 00:53:52.268
- Uh, we would talk about it.

00:53:52.292 --> 00:53:53.727
- Oh, wow.
- Yeah.

00:53:53.751 --> 00:53:56.976 position:20%
- So do you remember actually
like learning stuff here?

00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.351
- Yeah, yeah.

00:53:58.375 --> 00:54:01.560
Yeah, I did,
I did my best here.

00:54:01.584 --> 00:54:03.602
- Huh.

00:54:03.626 --> 00:54:05.185
See I have no...

00:54:05.209 --> 00:54:07.975
I don\'t remember learning,
like, a thing.

00:54:07.999 --> 00:54:10.602
But for me I guess it
was different, right,

00:54:10.626 --> 00:54:11.894
\'cause I was just,

00:54:11.918 --> 00:54:14.976
like I, to look at,
like I never looked up

00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:15.976
in this school, right?

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:17.560
I was always looking down
\'cause I was afraid

00:54:17.584 --> 00:54:21.059 position:20%
that you\'d see me looking
up at someone or-- right?

00:54:21.083 --> 00:54:22.975
- [Steve] Oh, boy.
- So, right?

00:54:22.999 --> 00:54:27.268
So I\'d have to leave class,
look down,

00:54:27.292 --> 00:54:31.351
and just go and try
not to talk to anybody,

00:54:31.375 --> 00:54:32.143
see anybody.

00:54:32.167 --> 00:54:34.685
I would hope that
no one that we knew

00:54:34.709 --> 00:54:37.310
would talk with me
going to class.

00:54:37.334 --> 00:54:39.476
And then in class,
I wouldn\'t concentrate

00:54:39.500 --> 00:54:40.975 position:20%
and I\'d just be thinking,

00:54:40.999 --> 00:54:42.685
like where\'s the next class?

00:54:42.709 --> 00:54:44.476
And...

00:54:44.500 --> 00:54:47.975
you know-- you know,
are you gonna follow me?

00:54:47.999 --> 00:54:49.975
Am I gonna look up at
the wrong time at somebody?

00:54:49.999 --> 00:54:52.518
So for me when I come here,
I\'m just like, whoa,

00:54:52.542 --> 00:54:53.852 position:20%
this is what it looks like?

00:54:53.876 --> 00:54:55.018
- [Steve] Yeah.
- I had no...

00:54:55.042 --> 00:54:56.602
- And that\'s just
nuts for me to hear.

00:54:56.626 --> 00:55:01.518
Because I would think
you\'d feel that way at home

00:55:01.542 --> 00:55:02.975
but not out here.

00:55:02.999 --> 00:55:04.810
- Right, yeah.

00:55:04.834 --> 00:55:07.351
I mean in one way for me,
this was like

00:55:07.375 --> 00:55:09.226
a place where
I could just be, right,

00:55:09.250 --> 00:55:13.975
\'cause nothing violent ever
happened here that I remember.

00:55:13.999 --> 00:55:15.935 position:20%
\'Cause it felt safe to me.

00:55:15.959 --> 00:55:20.393 position:20%
Even though I was constantly
looking over my shoulder,

00:55:20.417 --> 00:55:22.975
I mean the whole time
and not necessarily comfortable,

00:55:22.999 --> 00:55:27.751 position:20%
but at least I felt, like,
a sense of, like it was a,

00:55:29.999 --> 00:55:31.975
I just--
my body felt safe here,

00:55:31.999 --> 00:55:36.876
you know, as a way to kinda
come down a little bit.

00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:39.185
Should we go downstairs
or do you wanna...

00:55:39.209 --> 00:55:40.810
- [Steve] Sure, yeah.

00:55:40.834 --> 00:55:41.975
- We can go back that way
if you want.

00:55:41.999 --> 00:55:43.976
- This should put us
in the front again I think.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:46.792
- [Attiya] Okay, let\'s check.

00:55:57.167 --> 00:55:59.894
There was this assumption
that we were drinking

00:55:59.918 --> 00:56:01.602
and doing drugs,
we weren\'t.

00:56:01.626 --> 00:56:03.894
- It would make it
maybe more palatable

00:56:03.918 --> 00:56:06.393
to think that maybe we were--
I was being unruly

00:56:06.417 --> 00:56:10.268 position:20%
because I was maybe
doing drugs and drinking.

00:56:10.292 --> 00:56:11.643
- Right. Right.
- I don\'t know.

00:56:11.667 --> 00:56:13.935
But that\'s not the case.
- No.

00:56:13.959 --> 00:56:16.018 position:20%
- I, I got there on my own.

00:56:16.042 --> 00:56:20.143
- [Attiya] Right, huh.

00:56:20.167 --> 00:56:22.185 position:20%
I actually came back here.

00:56:22.209 --> 00:56:23.518
- Okay.
- [Attiya] \'Cause I wanted to

00:56:23.542 --> 00:56:26.351
come see the guidance counselor
and just say thank...

00:56:26.375 --> 00:56:27.768
- Was she here?

00:56:27.792 --> 00:56:29.101
- She was here.

00:56:29.125 --> 00:56:32.685 position:20%
And, um... And, you know,

00:56:32.709 --> 00:56:35.518
she hugged me
and asked about you.

00:56:35.542 --> 00:56:39.059
And I just-- I thanked her
\'cause I said, you know,

00:56:39.083 --> 00:56:40.976
what you did,
even just to talk to someone

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.310
who seemed to care
was really huge for us.

00:56:43.334 --> 00:56:46.018
And I said how much even
just getting bus tickets

00:56:46.042 --> 00:56:48.268
or whatever,
you know, how that

00:56:48.292 --> 00:56:50.268 position:20%
really affected our lives.

00:56:50.292 --> 00:56:53.685
And... and then,
this teacher walked in

00:56:53.709 --> 00:56:54.518
and she looked at me.

00:56:54.542 --> 00:56:57.435
She was like,
\"Oh! I recognize you!\"

00:56:57.459 --> 00:57:02.935
And she said, \"I\'ve always
wondered what happened to you.

00:57:02.959 --> 00:57:06.351 position:20%
I know when you were here
things were really hard.\"

00:57:06.375 --> 00:57:08.268 position:20%
And I said...
- [Steve] See, it was like

00:57:08.292 --> 00:57:08.975 position:20%
universally known almost.

00:57:08.999 --> 00:57:10.351 position:20%
- [Attiya] And I said,
\"Well what does that mean?

00:57:10.375 --> 00:57:12.018
\'Like things were hard--\'
like what did you see?\"

00:57:12.042 --> 00:57:12.976
- Yeah.
- [Attiya] Right?

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.393 position:20%
And she\'s like well,
I know, like I saw bruises

00:57:15.417 --> 00:57:16.975
on you all the time.

00:57:16.999 --> 00:57:19.351
And I said, \"Did you,
I don\'t remember

00:57:19.375 --> 00:57:21.975
us ever having
a conversation about that.\"

00:57:21.999 --> 00:57:25.018
And she just kinda
looked at me.

00:57:25.042 --> 00:57:26.975
And I was like, no, I just--

00:57:26.999 --> 00:57:28.810
Like, I don\'t remember,
did we?

00:57:28.834 --> 00:57:30.685
And she was like no.

00:57:30.709 --> 00:57:32.059
And I wasn\'t gonna,
you know, I just.

00:57:32.083 --> 00:57:33.935
- [Steve] Enough said, yeah.
- That\'s all, yeah.

00:57:33.959 --> 00:57:37.226
And, then I just said, \"You
know what, I\'m doing good.\"

00:57:37.250 --> 00:57:38.602
And she was like,
\"That\'s great.\"

00:57:38.626 --> 00:57:40.101
And then I like,
that was it.

00:57:40.125 --> 00:57:43.918
It was a really short meeting.

00:57:59.250 --> 00:58:01.975
- [Steve] Running\'s interesting.

00:58:01.999 --> 00:58:04.975
You can forget in--
in the moment,

00:58:04.999 --> 00:58:07.375
kind of, sort of.

00:58:08.209 --> 00:58:09.268
You know, you can drink,

00:58:09.292 --> 00:58:11.975
you can get high,
you can do a lot of things.

00:58:11.999 --> 00:58:15.894 position:20%
But everything
is always waiting for you,

00:58:15.918 --> 00:58:16.975
you know.

00:58:16.999 --> 00:58:19.975
And you deal with it
a little bit,

00:58:19.999 --> 00:58:21.435
and then you start
running again.

00:58:21.459 --> 00:58:23.226
And so you just
can procrastinate

00:58:23.250 --> 00:58:26.999
and it\'s just like dealing
with it is ongoing...

00:58:29.292 --> 00:58:30.643
You know?

00:58:30.667 --> 00:58:33.975
- [Attiya] I think there\'s
a lot going on with you

00:58:33.999 --> 00:58:35.852
and I feel like
there\'s a lot--

00:58:35.876 --> 00:58:37.768
Yeah, I just think
there\'s a lot more

00:58:37.792 --> 00:58:38.435
that you have to say

00:58:38.459 --> 00:58:42.852
but you don\'t feel safe or
comfortable coming forward yet.

00:58:42.876 --> 00:58:45.975
I don\'t know if that\'s true,
but that\'s what I\'m feeling.

00:58:45.999 --> 00:58:49.918
- Um, oh, there\'s probably
some truth to that.

00:58:50.999 --> 00:58:53.560
- The details.
Do you know what I mean?

00:58:53.584 --> 00:58:54.185
- Yeah.
- And--

00:58:54.209 --> 00:58:57.602
And I don\'t just mean
the abuse, right.

00:58:57.626 --> 00:58:59.751
Like just details.

00:59:05.876 --> 00:59:07.226
- I really just
want you to be okay

00:59:07.250 --> 00:59:10.667
and I don\'t know where
you are with that.

00:59:13.999 --> 00:59:17.143
So... you wanna eat?
- Hungry?

00:59:17.167 --> 00:59:20.042
- Yeah, you wanna eat?
- Okay, let\'s do it.

00:59:22.999 --> 00:59:25.334
(melodramatic music)

00:59:41.209 --> 00:59:43.751
(inaudible dialogue)

00:59:45.334 --> 00:59:48.894
- So there\'s Zaphod\'s, right?
- [Steve] Really?

00:59:48.918 --> 00:59:49.975 position:20%
- Did you go to Zaphod\'s?

00:59:49.999 --> 00:59:51.518
- We went a few times.

00:59:51.542 --> 00:59:53.999
- We did?
- Mm hmm.

00:59:55.959 --> 00:59:56.894 position:20%
- [Attiya] I think we sat--

00:59:56.918 --> 00:59:58.101
So this was the day we met,
right?

00:59:58.125 --> 00:59:59.476
We came here for lunch
and I think that...

00:59:59.500 --> 01:00:01.101
- [Steve] We sat
in the back there?

01:00:01.125 --> 01:00:03.810
- But then we\'d come here.
- We\'ve come--

01:00:03.834 --> 01:00:05.894
Yeah, we came here
afterwards, yeah.

01:00:05.918 --> 01:00:07.975
- But look, everyone\'s
like young in there.

01:00:07.999 --> 01:00:11.143
It\'s what you--
it\'s what you do.

01:00:11.167 --> 01:00:12.975
It\'s so pretty, eh?

01:00:12.999 --> 01:00:15.560
I don\'t remember it being
that pretty.

01:00:15.584 --> 01:00:18.751
(melodramatic music)

01:00:42.125 --> 01:00:45.167
- [Attiya] I wish I had
said more.

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:50.167
How can you not remember abusing
me every day in that house?

01:00:54.209 --> 01:00:56.999
But I needed you
to be the one to say it.

01:00:58.083 --> 01:01:01.834
Maybe you felt that
it wasn\'t your right.

01:01:05.459 --> 01:01:08.459
But I know that deep down,
you remember.

01:01:09.334 --> 01:01:11.876
(melodramatic music)

01:01:19.667 --> 01:01:20.975
- [Tod] So Steve,

01:01:20.999 --> 01:01:24.310
when Attiya first approached
you with this project,

01:01:24.334 --> 01:01:26.876
you know, what
were you thinking?

01:01:27.626 --> 01:01:31.351
- I was prepared to be called
out for things, events.

01:01:31.375 --> 01:01:33.975 position:20%
- And how come you
were signing up for that?

01:01:33.999 --> 01:01:39.018
- Simply because
I felt that, um...

01:01:39.042 --> 01:01:41.226
I have an opportunity...

01:01:41.250 --> 01:01:43.810
um... um...

01:01:43.834 --> 01:01:45.935 position:20%
to facilitate some healing,

01:01:45.959 --> 01:01:48.101
to help that process.

01:01:48.125 --> 01:01:51.751
And I\'m healing as well.

01:01:54.999 --> 01:01:57.975
- When you think
about, you know,

01:01:57.999 --> 01:02:01.643
your experience before Attiya,

01:02:01.667 --> 01:02:02.852 position:20%
what was the relationship

01:02:02.876 --> 01:02:04.435
between some
of those experiences

01:02:04.459 --> 01:02:06.975
and some of the ideas
that came off of that?

01:02:06.999 --> 01:02:08.768
So for example,

01:02:08.792 --> 01:02:12.768
it\'s not uncommon
for many of the guys

01:02:12.792 --> 01:02:15.018
that I work with
to have been, you know,

01:02:15.042 --> 01:02:19.768
violated in their youth
and then enter in--

01:02:19.792 --> 01:02:21.685
And part of what
they learn about that

01:02:21.709 --> 01:02:25.018
is that close relationships
aren\'t safe, you know.

01:02:25.042 --> 01:02:28.268
And so part of what they pull
into their relationships

01:02:28.292 --> 01:02:31.351
is needing to protect themselves

01:02:31.375 --> 01:02:32.602
\'cause they\'re gonna get hurt.

01:02:32.626 --> 01:02:35.393
And so part of that protection
becomes a wall.

01:02:35.417 --> 01:02:37.935
Is there a relationship
between what happened

01:02:37.959 --> 01:02:39.685 position:20%
to you before the age of 18

01:02:39.709 --> 01:02:40.351
and the choices that you made

01:02:40.375 --> 01:02:43.375 position:20%
when you were in your
relationship with Attiya?

01:02:45.876 --> 01:02:47.518
- To some degree, yeah, yeah.

01:02:47.542 --> 01:02:50.975
I think that this might be
as far as I\'ll take it,

01:02:50.999 --> 01:02:53.976
but I think some things
occurred with me

01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:58.185
that got me
so frustrated and angry,

01:02:58.209 --> 01:03:01.143
that even when...

01:03:01.167 --> 01:03:03.143
those things didn\'t occur
in my life anymore,

01:03:03.167 --> 01:03:05.268
I was so frustrated and angry

01:03:05.292 --> 01:03:09.143 position:20%
and I brought that with me.

01:03:09.167 --> 01:03:12.768 position:20%
So, you know,
these instances did occur,

01:03:12.792 --> 01:03:14.975
it\'s just that I didn\'t have
the capacity

01:03:14.999 --> 01:03:17.975
to let it go at that age,
you know?

01:03:17.999 --> 01:03:20.643
- [Tod] So injustices
that you experienced?

01:03:20.667 --> 01:03:22.101
- Yeah.

01:03:22.125 --> 01:03:26.975
- So there\'s different ideas
in our culture around justice.

01:03:26.999 --> 01:03:28.976 position:20%
What are your ideas around,

01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:31.975
in terms of making things
right in this situation

01:03:31.999 --> 01:03:35.602
and what does that
mean to you?

01:03:35.626 --> 01:03:38.852
- I think...

01:03:38.876 --> 01:03:41.852
to be honest,
I don\'t wanna even flirt

01:03:41.876 --> 01:03:46.209
with the idea of justice,
unless Attiya was sitting here.

01:03:48.999 --> 01:03:51.417
- [Tod] Just say
more about that.

01:03:52.959 --> 01:03:56.226 position:20%
- I wanna know if she feels

01:03:56.250 --> 01:03:58.101
that justice has taken place,

01:03:58.125 --> 01:04:01.975
and whatever definition
she has of that.

01:04:01.999 --> 01:04:04.584
- [Tod] Why is that
important to you?

01:04:07.999 --> 01:04:09.268
- That is when you
can pack things up

01:04:09.292 --> 01:04:10.768
and leave it in
a place behind you

01:04:10.792 --> 01:04:13.518
where you can start
owning your life again

01:04:13.542 --> 01:04:15.143
as opposed to...

01:04:15.167 --> 01:04:18.375
\"I\'m an abuser,\"
\"I\'m a victim.\"

01:04:22.250 --> 01:04:24.435
- [Husband] Do you want
any more coffee?

01:04:24.459 --> 01:04:25.852
- [Attiya] I\'m okay,

01:04:25.876 --> 01:04:27.834
thank you.

01:04:29.999 --> 01:04:31.393
- [Husband] When should
we wake Elliot up?

01:04:31.417 --> 01:04:34.476
- [Attiya] I think we should
just let him sleep.

01:04:34.500 --> 01:04:36.918
(soft music)

01:04:45.209 --> 01:04:48.393
- [Husband] Are you stressed
about the party, or no?

01:04:48.417 --> 01:04:50.435
- Uh, no, surprisingly.

01:04:50.459 --> 01:04:53.417
I don\'t have any stress left.

01:04:55.959 --> 01:04:58.185
- [Husband] Do you
think of it as a party?

01:04:58.209 --> 01:05:01.959
- [Attiya] I do, it is.

01:05:04.709 --> 01:05:09.125
Every year I commemorate
my anniversary away from you.

01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:14.792
Some years it\'s been as simple
as lighting a candle.

01:05:17.292 --> 01:05:21.000
This year it\'s something more.

01:05:22.999 --> 01:05:25.626
(melodramatic music)

01:05:41.083 --> 01:05:42.435
What do you think about Steve?

01:05:42.459 --> 01:05:44.834
What are your general thoughts?

01:05:45.999 --> 01:05:47.518
- [Husband] I\'m actually
not sure how to

01:05:47.542 --> 01:05:48.975
answer that question,
you know?

01:05:48.999 --> 01:05:52.643 position:20%
Naturally I would be angry
with anybody who hurt you.

01:05:52.667 --> 01:05:53.975
I mean, if someone
were to hurt you now

01:05:53.999 --> 01:05:56.876
I\'d be very angry with them.

01:05:57.584 --> 01:05:58.810 position:20%
But I also think I thought,

01:05:58.834 --> 01:06:01.810 position:20%
what\'s the point
of my being angry with him

01:06:01.834 --> 01:06:07.751 position:20%
and basically deferring to
your judgment about Steve?

01:06:08.584 --> 01:06:09.975
But I\'m also not like,

01:06:09.999 --> 01:06:14.125 position:20%
applauding him for participating
in this process in a way.

01:06:15.667 --> 01:06:16.685
You know, I think
I would be actually

01:06:16.709 --> 01:06:19.975
quite angry if he withdrew
from the process.

01:06:19.999 --> 01:06:22.975 position:20%
I feel like
he at least owes you this.

01:06:22.999 --> 01:06:26.685
And you\'ve actually created
an opportunity for him

01:06:26.709 --> 01:06:27.894
to help other people

01:06:27.918 --> 01:06:30.185
and to actually make
his life better,

01:06:30.209 --> 01:06:32.125
that he wouldn\'t otherwise have.

01:06:34.292 --> 01:06:36.685 position:20%
- [Tod] So Steve, Attiya,

01:06:36.709 --> 01:06:39.643
we\'ve been talking about
some of the effects

01:06:39.667 --> 01:06:43.209
of the choices that you made.

01:06:44.083 --> 01:06:47.101 position:20%
So Steve,
what your thoughts about,

01:06:47.125 --> 01:06:51.894
you know, Attiya being angry
still at those choices

01:06:51.918 --> 01:06:54.810
that you made--
at the same time,

01:06:54.834 --> 01:06:57.518
she\'s being, you know,
compassionate with you?

01:06:57.542 --> 01:06:58.810
- It\'s absolutely reasonable.

01:06:58.834 --> 01:07:03.935
Um, it\'s, I\'m angry that
I made poor choices.

01:07:03.959 --> 01:07:05.393
You know, it would have
been interesting

01:07:05.417 --> 01:07:07.975
to see where it went
without those choices.

01:07:07.999 --> 01:07:09.810
- I\'m just curious,
before we started

01:07:09.834 --> 01:07:10.975 position:20%
having these conversations,

01:07:10.999 --> 01:07:14.975
did you think about
what I thought of you,

01:07:14.999 --> 01:07:17.185 position:20%
like over the-- the time?

01:07:17.209 --> 01:07:18.894
- For sure, yeah.

01:07:18.918 --> 01:07:21.959
No, I was an absolute
asshole, monster.

01:07:24.584 --> 01:07:26.602
Right? Um...

01:07:26.626 --> 01:07:29.959
The worst thing that\'s
happened in your life.

01:07:31.999 --> 01:07:33.852
- You know, I mean I\'ve
always wondered if,

01:07:33.876 --> 01:07:34.727
you know, you stopped
to think like wow,

01:07:34.751 --> 01:07:37.268
I wonder how Attiya is or
how she\'s deal, how she dealt...

01:07:37.292 --> 01:07:40.059
- Always, always.

01:07:40.083 --> 01:07:43.975 position:20%
But even if I thought that,

01:07:43.999 --> 01:07:47.975
just even trying to
reach out to you,

01:07:47.999 --> 01:07:50.643
do you even wanna do that...
try and reach out to someone

01:07:50.667 --> 01:07:52.393
that you\'ve put
in that position?

01:07:52.417 --> 01:07:53.476
Is she gonna feel threatened?

01:07:53.500 --> 01:07:56.226
Is it gonna set all
kinds of triggers off?

01:07:56.250 --> 01:07:59.268 position:20%
I just had to leave that be

01:07:59.292 --> 01:08:02.542
and try and deal with it
the best I could.

01:08:03.042 --> 01:08:06.059 position:20%
- I\'m wondering what
you think was influencing

01:08:06.083 --> 01:08:08.101 position:20%
your choices to, you know,

01:08:08.125 --> 01:08:12.226
use violence against Attiya
when you were younger?

01:08:12.250 --> 01:08:14.935
If you could talk about...
- Why I feel I chose violence?

01:08:14.959 --> 01:08:16.018
- [Tod] Yeah,
what were some of

01:08:16.042 --> 01:08:19.143
the things that were
going on for you?

01:08:19.167 --> 01:08:21.042
- Um...

01:08:23.375 --> 01:08:26.250
I was...
(embarrassed sigh)

01:08:27.918 --> 01:08:32.852
I was so desperate to be
in a supportive relationship.

01:08:32.876 --> 01:08:34.894 position:20%
As dysfunctional as it is,

01:08:34.918 --> 01:08:38.975
I used violence to keep
you exactly where you were,

01:08:38.999 --> 01:08:41.018
beside me.

01:08:41.042 --> 01:08:42.101 position:20%
- So you wouldn\'t lose me?

01:08:42.125 --> 01:08:45.375
- Yeah, and in doing so,
I was losing you.

01:08:50.999 --> 01:08:53.476
I was just obviously
gonna do anything

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:55.975
to keep you at my side,

01:08:55.999 --> 01:08:58.894
regardless of how
manipulative that was.

01:08:58.918 --> 01:09:01.185
- What\'s it like
for both of you to talk about

01:09:01.209 --> 01:09:04.975
the context of your
relationship back then?

01:09:04.999 --> 01:09:07.894
- I guess it\'s just...
(deep exhale)

01:09:07.918 --> 01:09:11.351
well, some of it
is like, just...

01:09:11.375 --> 01:09:14.727
It was never--
I was never believed, right,

01:09:14.751 --> 01:09:16.476
and so that it was that bad.

01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:19.059
Or even within our relationship,

01:09:19.083 --> 01:09:21.476 position:20%
like at times I just
thought that I was crazy.

01:09:21.500 --> 01:09:25.351
And so to be able
to hear you kind of

01:09:25.375 --> 01:09:26.643 position:20%
even say, you know, Attiya,

01:09:26.667 --> 01:09:27.935
I\'m starting to
remember some of these

01:09:27.959 --> 01:09:29.685
things that you\'re
talking about,

01:09:29.709 --> 01:09:31.602
it just gives it credibility,

01:09:31.626 --> 01:09:33.101
like it did happen.

01:09:33.125 --> 01:09:36.602
\'Cause sometimes I would just
question myself, like really?

01:09:36.626 --> 01:09:38.435
Was it, did that happen?
Was it that bad?

01:09:38.459 --> 01:09:42.018
And now that we\'re
acknowledging this

01:09:42.042 --> 01:09:43.894
and talking about it,

01:09:43.918 --> 01:09:45.560
I can move past that

01:09:45.584 --> 01:09:48.476
to kind of think
about the full story.

01:09:48.500 --> 01:09:51.975
But I think that had to
happen to get here, I think.

01:09:51.999 --> 01:09:53.560
- Right, yeah.

01:09:53.584 --> 01:09:56.643
Yeah, we had to unearth
a lot of stuff, right?

01:09:56.667 --> 01:09:58.143
- [Attiya] Yeah.
- Um...

01:09:58.167 --> 01:09:59.768
And for me it was difficult,

01:09:59.792 --> 01:10:02.143 position:20%
because not only
am I doing this with you,

01:10:02.167 --> 01:10:05.185
I\'m doing it in a public forum.

01:10:05.209 --> 01:10:07.268
But, you know,

01:10:07.292 --> 01:10:11.975 position:20%
I stand knowing that
I\'m doing the right thing,

01:10:11.999 --> 01:10:15.000
and everything
else is secondary.

01:10:16.751 --> 01:10:19.976
So, you know,
am I being truthful?

01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:23.250
Am I being honest?
Am I being sincere?

01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:28.375
You know,
you\'re my barometer on that.

01:10:28.999 --> 01:10:31.999
(melodramatic music)

01:10:52.209 --> 01:10:54.101
- [Attiya] This is very hard
for me and I feel like

01:10:54.125 --> 01:10:56.435
I can\'t find my words.
(laughing)

01:10:56.459 --> 01:10:58.518
But what I do want to tell you,

01:10:58.542 --> 01:11:00.975
\'cause I haven\'t spoken to
or seen so many of you,

01:11:00.999 --> 01:11:04.975
is that I\'m actually doing okay.
(laughing)

01:11:04.999 --> 01:11:07.334
(soft music)

01:11:14.999 --> 01:11:16.626
Hey!

01:11:17.584 --> 01:11:20.810
- [Woman] Hello,
how are you doing?

01:11:20.834 --> 01:11:23.000
(soft music)

01:11:25.751 --> 01:11:28.834
If you look across the room,

01:11:30.918 --> 01:11:33.643
one woman among two,

01:11:33.667 --> 01:11:35.894
so the ratio one to two women,

01:11:35.918 --> 01:11:39.101
has experienced
a variation of physical,

01:11:39.125 --> 01:11:41.852
emotional, sexual,

01:11:41.876 --> 01:11:46.250
and whatever gamut
or the continuum of violence.

01:11:47.999 --> 01:11:49.975
And that\'s a sad fact.

01:11:49.999 --> 01:11:52.476
I mean we can look
at it as statistics,

01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:54.918
but that\'s a really sad fact.

01:11:56.042 --> 01:11:57.435
- So, um...

01:11:57.459 --> 01:12:00.083
(melodramatic music)

01:12:03.792 --> 01:12:06.975
On July 20th, it was
the last time he hit me,

01:12:06.999 --> 01:12:08.059
it was the last time
he strangled me,

01:12:08.083 --> 01:12:10.435 position:20%
it\'s the last time
he dragged me by my hair.

01:12:10.459 --> 01:12:13.268
I wouldn\'t have been able
to say that three years ago

01:12:13.292 --> 01:12:17.476
and for me
it\'s really important,

01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:20.584
for people to hear
the real story.

01:12:21.125 --> 01:12:25.059
I feel like
for the first time,

01:12:25.083 --> 01:12:29.226
in-- ever,
that I\'m healing.

01:12:29.250 --> 01:12:31.310 position:20%
And that also
isn\'t something I expected

01:12:31.334 --> 01:12:34.459
during this process in
sitting down with him.

01:12:36.918 --> 01:12:41.435
I\'m so happy that
I\'ve been able to

01:12:41.459 --> 01:12:44.351
take this date and replace it

01:12:44.375 --> 01:12:47.018
with something that is
so fantastic like this

01:12:47.042 --> 01:12:49.685
and to have all you
here to support me,

01:12:49.709 --> 01:12:52.976
to listen to my story,
to learn.

01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:54.101
What I\'ve learned the most is

01:12:54.125 --> 01:12:56.852
that we really
need to be talking

01:12:56.876 --> 01:12:59.584 position:20%
about this in a public way.

01:13:02.667 --> 01:13:04.101
This is not what
I want everyone to do,

01:13:04.125 --> 01:13:07.268
is go back to their abusive ex
and have conversations, right?

01:13:07.292 --> 01:13:08.975
But that\'s what
it\'s doing for me

01:13:08.999 --> 01:13:10.976
and I didn\'t expect
that from this.

01:13:11.000 --> 01:13:11.935 position:20%
And that\'s kind of awesome.

01:13:11.959 --> 01:13:14.518
- [Woman] I\'ll do this
first piece and then I\'ll...

01:13:14.542 --> 01:13:17.975
- [Attiya] And I do actually
wanna say a thank you

01:13:17.999 --> 01:13:20.643
to Steve for doing this,

01:13:20.667 --> 01:13:24.643
the hardest thing that
he may have ever done,

01:13:24.667 --> 01:13:26.185
or ever will do.

01:13:26.209 --> 01:13:32.059
And I think it\'s just
happy 23rd anniversary to me!

01:13:32.083 --> 01:13:34.709
(laughing and cheering)

01:13:36.999 --> 01:13:38.226 position:20%
Thank you everyone, again.

01:13:38.250 --> 01:13:41.334
Thanks for listening
and thanks for sharing.

01:13:46.042 --> 01:13:48.935
You gave me more
than I expected.

01:13:48.959 --> 01:13:52.810
The old Steve would never
have listened to me

01:13:52.834 --> 01:13:54.999
or taken responsibility.

01:13:56.999 --> 01:13:59.351
But this is not the end,

01:13:59.375 --> 01:14:02.792
for us or for so many others.

01:14:04.542 --> 01:14:07.000
There\'s so much more to say.

01:14:16.459 --> 01:14:20.000
♪ Put your words into the fire ♪

01:14:22.667 --> 01:14:27.083
♪ Watch them burn
your heart\'s desires ♪

01:14:29.792 --> 01:14:32.792
♪ Rise up in the air ♪

01:14:34.999 --> 01:14:39.999
♪ In a cloud of silk
and smoke and dust ♪

01:14:42.042 --> 01:14:45.250
♪ Fade into the night ♪

01:14:46.999 --> 01:14:52.626 line:20%
♪ It\'s a comforting feeling
with you by my side ♪

01:14:59.125 --> 01:15:03.250
♪ Let me shake
your honest hands ♪

01:15:05.959 --> 01:15:10.250
♪ And I\'ll sit down
beside you now ♪

01:15:12.834 --> 01:15:15.834
♪ Lean our heavy heads ♪

01:15:17.876 --> 01:15:23.125
♪ Of the weight of the things
that are left unsaid ♪

01:15:24.999 --> 01:15:28.167
♪ Don\'t worry about it now ♪

01:15:30.876 --> 01:15:32.268
♪ \'Cause in the morning
they will all ♪

01:15:32.292 --> 01:15:35.999
♪ Just be ashes on the ground ♪

01:15:42.375 --> 01:15:45.602
♪ So what\'s
been on your mind ♪

01:15:45.626 --> 01:15:49.000
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:15:52.125 --> 01:15:55.101
♪ Eating you inside ♪

01:15:55.125 --> 01:15:58.751
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:16:01.500 --> 01:16:04.976 position:20%
♪ Taking all of your time ♪

01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:08.834
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:16:10.876 --> 01:16:14.626
♪ On this warm summer night ♪

01:16:16.083 --> 01:16:19.999
♪ Put your words
down in the fire ♪

01:16:26.375 --> 01:16:30.500
♪ When we were down
at sandy beach ♪

01:16:33.209 --> 01:16:37.459
♪ Old man talking
in young man\'s words ♪

01:16:39.417 --> 01:16:43.167
♪ Tell me where
you would like to be ♪

01:16:45.626 --> 01:16:49.959
♪ Tonight don\'t
be afraid to dream ♪

01:16:52.500 --> 01:16:55.999
♪ Lean on the fire
for a while ♪

01:16:58.042 --> 01:16:59.810
♪ Cause in the morning
it will all ♪

01:16:59.834 --> 01:17:03.292
♪ Just be ashes on the ground ♪

01:17:09.709 --> 01:17:12.518
♪ So what\'s
been on your mind ♪

01:17:12.542 --> 01:17:15.751
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:17:19.542 --> 01:17:22.518
♪ Eating you inside ♪

01:17:22.542 --> 01:17:25.334
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:17:29.042 --> 01:17:32.143 position:20%
♪ Taking all of your time ♪

01:17:32.167 --> 01:17:35.792
♪ Ooo ooo ooo ooo ♪

01:17:38.417 --> 01:17:41.792
♪ On this warm summer night ♪

01:17:43.792 --> 01:17:47.417 line:20%
♪ Put those words down
in the fire ♪♪