00:00:10.805 --> 00:00:13.638
(water splashing)

00:00:46.012 --> 00:00:48.595
(somber music)

00:00:59.743 --> 00:01:04.087
- [Theo] You know, one thing that's been tripping me out

00:01:04.087 --> 00:01:08.690
lately is just being out in the world,

00:01:10.655 --> 00:01:15.061
people are just so ruled by what they see.

00:01:15.061 --> 00:01:19.527
They take in something visual and let it stop there,

00:01:19.527 --> 00:01:24.527
which I don't expect people to really go much further

00:01:24.807 --> 00:01:28.980
than that, but it's just a trip.

00:01:29.978 --> 00:01:33.583
I just think, you have no idea who I am at all.

00:02:11.264 --> 00:02:13.308
- Hey Theo! - Hey guys,

00:02:13.308 --> 00:02:14.493
how are you doing? - Good.

00:02:14.493 --> 00:02:16.076
- How are you? - Hi.

00:02:16.954 --> 00:02:17.796
- Hi. - Hey Julie.

00:02:17.796 --> 00:02:20.077
- Hey. - Hey Jules.

00:02:20.077 --> 00:02:21.818
So when do we get to see it?

00:02:21.818 --> 00:02:23.300
- See what? - The video!

00:02:24.827 --> 00:02:27.100
- This is the before shot. - Before.

00:02:32.817 --> 00:02:34.707
- What scares me a lot is in a lot of ways,

00:02:34.707 --> 00:02:36.680
I still feel really anti-male.

00:02:39.164 --> 00:02:40.207
- And I think that the love that they share

00:02:40.207 --> 00:02:43.007
is really remarkable and I just feel like it is

00:02:43.007 --> 00:02:45.377
in jeopardy and that they don't see it.

00:02:45.377 --> 00:02:49.067
- There was something strange and offbeat,

00:02:49.067 --> 00:02:50.790
like she just did not fit.

00:02:54.647 --> 00:02:58.670
- I'm never gonna be a completely functional biological guy.

00:02:59.703 --> 00:03:02.357
- I have a profound concern for the two of them

00:03:02.357 --> 00:03:06.706
and I just feel like, why are you fucking with this?

00:03:06.706 --> 00:03:09.760
- She was kind of fishing around and not telling me

00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:11.890
what it was that she had to tell me.

00:03:13.277 --> 00:03:15.780
And I just said, oh, are you gonna have a sex change?

00:03:18.677 --> 00:03:21.667
- [Julie] Well, maybe you can just talk a little bit

00:03:21.667 --> 00:03:24.327
about making this decision, if you feel like

00:03:24.327 --> 00:03:27.067
there was a point that you decided really to do it.

00:03:27.067 --> 00:03:32.067
- Well I've always wanted to do it, the big it.

00:03:34.467 --> 00:03:39.467
And ever since I was a little kid, I always wondered why

00:03:40.757 --> 00:03:41.909
I wasn't a boy.

00:03:43.466 --> 00:03:47.007
More intense than, gee, I wanna be a boy kinda thing.

00:03:47.007 --> 00:03:50.397
I remember once being real little and asking my parents

00:03:50.397 --> 00:03:54.367
just how come, and I was really serious

00:03:54.367 --> 00:03:56.149
and they were like, no.

00:03:56.149 --> 00:03:57.517
- What'd you say? - I was just like,

00:03:57.517 --> 00:03:59.527
well how come I'm not a boy?

00:03:59.527 --> 00:04:01.827
I like to do all these kind of things that are

00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:08.349
not very girl-like or whatever, but my parents are kind of,

00:04:08.767 --> 00:04:12.967
my parents are real into gender roles and stuff

00:04:12.967 --> 00:04:16.677
and I was the only daughter that they had

00:04:16.677 --> 00:04:21.046
so the pressure was really intense and I just never

00:04:21.046 --> 00:04:25.230
did it right, never did the whole thing right.

00:04:26.087 --> 00:04:27.430
About being a girl.

00:04:29.897 --> 00:04:33.177
And I've heard so many, a boy named Sue jokes

00:04:33.177 --> 00:04:38.177
that it's just like, heard it, said it, lived it.

00:04:41.294 --> 00:04:43.306
♪ Well my daddy left home when I was three ♪

00:04:43.306 --> 00:04:45.615
♪ And he didn't leave much to ma and me ♪

00:04:45.615 --> 00:04:50.615
♪ Just this old guitar and a empty bottle of booze ♪

00:04:50.635 --> 00:04:52.887
♪ I don't blame him 'cause he run and hid ♪

00:04:52.887 --> 00:04:54.936
♪ But the meanest thing that he ever did ♪

00:04:54.936 --> 00:04:59.936
♪ Was before he left, he went and named me Sue ♪

00:05:00.025 --> 00:05:03.398
♪ Well he must have thought that it was quite a joke ♪

00:05:03.398 --> 00:05:05.662
♪ And it got a lot of laughs from lots of folks ♪

00:05:05.662 --> 00:05:10.560
♪ Seems I had to fight my whole life through ♪

00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:12.792
♪ Some gal would giggle and I'd get red ♪

00:05:12.792 --> 00:05:15.293
♪ And some guy would laugh and I would bust his head ♪

00:05:15.293 --> 00:05:18.833
♪ I tell you, life aint easy for a boy named Sue ♪

00:05:18.833 --> 00:05:21.605
(audience applauding)

00:05:21.605 --> 00:05:24.291
♪ Well I grew up quick and I grew up mean ♪

00:05:24.291 --> 00:05:26.681
♪ My fist got hard and my wit's got keen ♪

00:05:26.681 --> 00:05:31.649
♪ Roamed from town to town to hide my shame ♪

00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:34.007
♪ When I made me a vow to the moon and stars ♪

00:05:34.007 --> 00:05:35.609
♪ I'd searched the whole ♪

00:05:35.609 --> 00:05:37.117
(drum beating)

00:05:37.117 --> 00:05:37.987
(all chattering)

00:05:37.987 --> 00:05:39.997
- Julie's talked to us all eventually.

00:05:42.005 --> 00:05:45.427
- Jason has these angels that look over me all the time.

00:05:45.427 --> 00:05:46.883
(laughs)

00:05:46.883 --> 00:05:47.785
- And he was like.

00:05:47.785 --> 00:05:49.807
(vocalizing)

00:05:49.807 --> 00:05:52.507
- [Theo] For me, and I know for a lot of other people,

00:05:53.917 --> 00:05:56.567
people who are close to me here are really my family.

00:05:57.417 --> 00:06:00.337
So the family that I grew up with are pretty much

00:06:00.337 --> 00:06:03.137
strangers to me now, and I with them.

00:06:03.137 --> 00:06:08.137
So when I decided that I was gonna go ahead and do this

00:06:08.967 --> 00:06:13.967
thing, being my gender change, it really scared me,

00:06:13.977 --> 00:06:16.940
the thought of telling people, I was just scared to death.

00:06:18.967 --> 00:06:23.357
- I think I was one of the first people that Theo told.

00:06:25.037 --> 00:06:26.637
Because we lived together.

00:06:26.637 --> 00:06:31.397
- So I've known Theo for about 10 years and we were lovers

00:06:31.397 --> 00:06:35.467
for four and I heard about it,

00:06:37.767 --> 00:06:41.624
he wrote and I went to the post office by myself

00:06:41.624 --> 00:06:44.397
and I picked up this letter.

00:06:44.397 --> 00:06:46.087
- I think it might have been like around a holiday time

00:06:46.087 --> 00:06:48.787
like Thanksgiving or something, so it was like a special

00:06:48.787 --> 00:06:50.597
time and everyone was sitting around the table

00:06:50.597 --> 00:06:55.597
and Lisi introduced it, she said, Sue has something

00:06:55.967 --> 00:06:57.987
she wants to tell you, Caroline.

00:06:57.987 --> 00:07:02.927
- I took like a very supportive position,

00:07:02.927 --> 00:07:06.307
like I just really was happy for Theo

00:07:06.307 --> 00:07:08.437
because this was something that had obviously

00:07:08.437 --> 00:07:11.814
taken years and years to be able to say

00:07:11.814 --> 00:07:16.327
and I felt honored that it was me that was the partner

00:07:16.327 --> 00:07:20.360
that he felt most able to be himself with.

00:07:21.423 --> 00:07:23.487
- I mean, I think that we have in a lot of ways

00:07:23.487 --> 00:07:27.107
maybe helped her to come to the place where she could say

00:07:27.107 --> 00:07:29.195
I wanna do this.

00:07:29.195 --> 00:07:32.097
And know that she could tell me over coffee and that,

00:07:32.097 --> 00:07:35.350
my jaw would hit the floor but that I was basically,

00:07:36.417 --> 00:07:38.387
I'm here, you know?

00:07:38.387 --> 00:07:42.048
- I'm happy that Theo's in San Francisco right now,

00:07:42.048 --> 00:07:44.117
I think this is a great place, there's a supportive

00:07:44.117 --> 00:07:48.477
community, there's support groups, I think that if Theo

00:07:48.477 --> 00:07:51.167
wasn't surrounded by that community, I would be worried

00:07:51.167 --> 00:07:54.200
about how the world was gonna accept Theo.

00:07:57.423 --> 00:08:00.006
(somber music)

00:08:30.707 --> 00:08:32.897
- [Julie] So what is it like for you just being out

00:08:32.897 --> 00:08:35.980
in the world, like do people think you're a man or a woman?

00:08:36.947 --> 00:08:39.636
- Well it kinda depends on where I am in the city.

00:08:39.636 --> 00:08:44.256
Some people call me sir and people will call me ma'am

00:08:44.256 --> 00:08:48.937
and when it really bugs me is when somebody calls me sir

00:08:48.937 --> 00:08:51.717
and then realizes that like when I start speaking

00:08:51.717 --> 00:08:53.907
or something that they made a mistake

00:08:53.907 --> 00:08:57.630
and then get mad at me about it, that's always bothered me.

00:08:58.807 --> 00:09:00.557
- [Julie] So do you think that will change?

00:09:00.557 --> 00:09:02.557
- Yeah I think that'll change.

00:09:02.557 --> 00:09:07.075
See, I think right now I kinda walk that fine line

00:09:07.075 --> 00:09:11.667
where you're not really sure, kind of sometimes

00:09:11.667 --> 00:09:14.637
and it'll put me over that line physically.

00:09:14.637 --> 00:09:16.377
- [Julie] Do you think it's like your breasts

00:09:16.377 --> 00:09:17.767
that make people?

00:09:17.767 --> 00:09:19.517
- [Theo] Double take and realize?

00:09:19.517 --> 00:09:20.537
- Yeah. - Yeah.

00:09:20.537 --> 00:09:23.037
There's no doubt about it, I have pretty big tits.

00:09:25.767 --> 00:09:28.767
Sometimes I can totally picture in my head,

00:09:28.767 --> 00:09:32.377
like when I start manifesting more who I am,

00:09:32.377 --> 00:09:35.177
just the kind of guy I'm gonna be.

00:09:35.177 --> 00:09:37.996
The images that I have in my head when I think about

00:09:37.996 --> 00:09:41.907
a physical body that I had was completely different

00:09:41.907 --> 00:09:42.757
than what I have.

00:09:44.962 --> 00:09:47.629
(intense music)

00:10:40.367 --> 00:10:43.412
Is this gonna be a good one to give myself injections of?

00:10:43.412 --> 00:10:45.025
- Yeah. - Okay.

00:10:45.025 --> 00:10:47.197
- Well, it's a mid-range needle.

00:10:47.197 --> 00:10:49.707
Take the bottle out and just pull back nice and slow,

00:10:49.707 --> 00:10:53.137
it's really thick stuff so it'll take a while to try out.

00:10:53.137 --> 00:10:55.394
At least draw more than you need to,

00:10:55.394 --> 00:10:57.544
you have enough to push the air bubble out.

00:10:59.077 --> 00:11:01.647
Tap it a few times, make sure they open in the top.

00:11:01.647 --> 00:11:02.517
Sometimes they gather down here,

00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:04.880
you just flick it a couple times.

00:11:06.067 --> 00:11:07.517
Most of it's already gone up.

00:11:08.567 --> 00:11:10.180
So now you just go for the amount that you need

00:11:10.180 --> 00:11:13.487
and for 3/4 right there. - Okay.

00:11:13.487 --> 00:11:15.817
- [Doctor] If you pull it down, then if there's any extra

00:11:15.817 --> 00:11:19.194
air in here, it won't shoot the serum all over the place.

00:11:19.194 --> 00:11:20.094
- [Theo] Oh, okay.

00:11:22.677 --> 00:11:23.727
- Ready when you are!

00:11:29.997 --> 00:11:31.747
Get your wrist clean.

00:11:39.252 --> 00:11:41.252
All done. - Okay, thanks.

00:11:42.847 --> 00:11:45.070
- [Julie] Alright, so how did you guys meet?

00:11:47.462 --> 00:11:50.067
(laughs)

00:11:50.067 --> 00:11:51.847
- Didn't you ask us this question already?

00:11:51.847 --> 00:11:53.197
- [Julie] I don't think so.

00:11:55.617 --> 00:11:57.750
- We met through the personals.

00:12:00.527 --> 00:12:02.397
- Yes, through the personals.

00:12:02.397 --> 00:12:05.430
- 'Cause I put an ad in. - What did it say?

00:12:06.497 --> 00:12:11.497
- It said, let's see, the title was me hot geek

00:12:13.817 --> 00:12:17.170
and then it said you perv freak.

00:12:18.787 --> 00:12:22.837
Please don't hate me 'cause I got good grades in high school

00:12:24.662 --> 00:12:27.057
and I think real hard and talk real stuff,

00:12:27.057 --> 00:12:30.330
I dance real big and fuck real rough.

00:12:32.654 --> 00:12:34.761
- Oh, it rhymes. - It all rhymes.

00:12:34.761 --> 00:12:36.844
(laughs)

00:12:40.337 --> 00:12:43.630
So that's what I put in and then Sue called first.

00:12:45.557 --> 00:12:47.500
And said, hi.

00:12:49.267 --> 00:12:52.922
My name's Sue and I like to have a good time

00:12:52.922 --> 00:12:54.237
so give me a call.

00:12:54.237 --> 00:12:56.685
(laughs)

00:12:56.685 --> 00:12:59.602
- Probably said something terrible.

00:13:01.918 --> 00:13:04.501
(gentle music)

00:13:11.017 --> 00:13:14.537
Lisi and I are, we just really love each other a lot.

00:13:14.537 --> 00:13:17.077
This relationship I'm having with her has been

00:13:17.077 --> 00:13:19.740
really stable and really nice.

00:13:21.017 --> 00:13:26.017
Compared to pretty much all the relationships I've had

00:13:26.277 --> 00:13:27.610
up until that point.

00:13:30.427 --> 00:13:33.277
We've always been really honest with each other

00:13:33.277 --> 00:13:37.167
about things and can talk about any issues that come up

00:13:37.167 --> 00:13:41.890
really easily and I think it,

00:13:45.147 --> 00:13:49.097
her being able to hear whatever I had to say

00:13:49.097 --> 00:13:54.097
and not freak out really allowed me to be able to say

00:13:54.187 --> 00:13:55.170
this one big thing.

00:13:56.207 --> 00:13:57.105
(laughs)

00:13:57.105 --> 00:13:59.854
Although we did kind of freak out about it a little bit,

00:14:01.397 --> 00:14:03.440
in our dealing with it every day,

00:14:04.837 --> 00:14:09.537
- Theo, when I first met, Sue, whatever, was like,

00:14:09.537 --> 00:14:13.637
had a definite, what I then perceived as butch

00:14:13.637 --> 00:14:18.637
and we kind of worked within this butch-femme construction

00:14:20.517 --> 00:14:24.594
in the lesbian culture and as far as I knew,

00:14:24.594 --> 00:14:27.930
Sue was a dyke and that was kind of the thing.

00:14:30.227 --> 00:14:33.577
Being a femme feels really comfortable to me.

00:14:33.577 --> 00:14:37.967
A femme as a queer woman because it's a lot about

00:14:37.967 --> 00:14:40.887
discussing through the way you present yourself

00:14:40.887 --> 00:14:43.197
to the world, like what the world expects of you

00:14:43.197 --> 00:14:45.047
and throwing that back in the world's face.

00:14:45.047 --> 00:14:48.067
It's a little different, I think, from just blindly

00:14:48.067 --> 00:14:49.230
accepting it.

00:14:50.727 --> 00:14:55.347
I think that my fear is that if Theo is a guy,

00:14:55.347 --> 00:14:59.557
it won't be the same as far as, it won't be just about

00:14:59.557 --> 00:15:02.227
commenting on something, it'll be about actually

00:15:02.227 --> 00:15:05.757
manifesting certain behaviors in society

00:15:05.757 --> 00:15:09.360
that I'm actually in really ambivalent relationship to.

00:15:12.777 --> 00:15:17.377
I think ultimately this is a really celebratory thing

00:15:17.377 --> 00:15:21.617
but what I'm facing is the death of something

00:15:21.617 --> 00:15:24.487
that I grew to love and then now I'm like,

00:15:24.487 --> 00:15:28.977
okay, well I'm at this door of where, what's gonna be there?

00:15:28.977 --> 00:15:33.297
But as in any passage or journey, there's really no way

00:15:33.297 --> 00:15:36.627
that I can know until I'm there, kind of.

00:15:36.627 --> 00:15:38.737
That's sort of how I look at it and so I just need

00:15:38.737 --> 00:15:40.944
to get there, like I'm really committed to getting there,

00:15:40.944 --> 00:15:45.944
I'm really committed to working, like I want it to work.

00:15:48.509 --> 00:15:49.697
- [Maya] Don't you want to do the other one?

00:15:49.697 --> 00:15:50.530
- [Theo] Would you like to do the other one?

00:15:50.530 --> 00:15:52.623
- Well you know I was thinking about that today

00:15:52.623 --> 00:15:53.607
and I was thinking, I wonder if we should do a thing

00:15:53.607 --> 00:15:58.427
where we go here here here here and like keep rotating.

00:15:58.427 --> 00:16:00.325
(sighs)

00:16:00.325 --> 00:16:02.817
- [Julie] What's that?

00:16:02.817 --> 00:16:04.247
- See all the air in that?

00:16:05.706 --> 00:16:07.039
Keep drawing it.

00:16:12.349 --> 00:16:15.733
- [Lisi] Just put the little air bubble in you.

00:16:15.733 --> 00:16:17.855
(laughs)

00:16:17.855 --> 00:16:20.446
- There's lots of them. - It's alright.

00:16:20.446 --> 00:16:22.613
(tapping)

00:16:24.278 --> 00:16:25.917
- There's a part of me that wonders if Theo

00:16:25.917 --> 00:16:28.947
will just be a completely different person than Sue,

00:16:28.947 --> 00:16:31.477
like different feelings, different ways of reacting,

00:16:31.477 --> 00:16:33.157
different perceptions.

00:16:33.157 --> 00:16:35.927
I really don't know what's gonna happen

00:16:35.927 --> 00:16:38.877
because hormones are such a incredibly big part

00:16:38.877 --> 00:16:40.557
of who we are.

00:16:40.557 --> 00:16:42.987
- Sue's leaving, no, Sue's leaving.

00:16:42.987 --> 00:16:47.587
- I'm saying goodbye to a camaraderie and a bond.

00:16:47.587 --> 00:16:51.657
- She's chosen what I really conceive of as a form

00:16:51.657 --> 00:16:53.830
of controlled suicide.

00:16:54.957 --> 00:16:57.057
- Don't forget. - I want it,

00:16:57.057 --> 00:16:59.722
see that little rising thing?

00:16:59.722 --> 00:17:01.139
We want it there.

00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:05.930
Try to get it straight in there.

00:17:06.796 --> 00:17:08.880
- Are you nervous? - Yeah.

00:17:11.371 --> 00:17:13.537
- [Maya] Everyone breathe.

00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:17.187
- Okay. - Are you gonna keep

00:17:17.187 --> 00:17:18.600
holding it like that? - Yeah.

00:17:19.597 --> 00:17:21.244
- Keep breathing. - I'm doing fine, honey.

00:17:21.244 --> 00:17:23.887
- It's great. - I'm like not breathing.

00:17:23.887 --> 00:17:26.415
- [Theo] Keep hold at the plunger, now pull it out,

00:17:26.415 --> 00:17:28.088
straight out, straight out, straight out.

00:17:28.088 --> 00:17:30.257
(applauding)

00:17:30.257 --> 00:17:33.040
- [Maya] Well that was the last one, this is a fresh one.

00:17:34.807 --> 00:17:36.987
- Theo is not gonna be a real man, that's.

00:17:36.987 --> 00:17:39.207
- She's not gonna be the same person, you know?

00:17:39.207 --> 00:17:41.287
She's gonna be, she's radically altered.

00:17:41.287 --> 00:17:44.097
- Why the hell would you wanna be a boy?

00:17:44.097 --> 00:17:46.427
I just can't relate in the least.

00:17:46.427 --> 00:17:48.067
- What if she ends up alone?

00:17:48.067 --> 00:17:50.977
There's chemistry between them and now in this choice,

00:17:50.977 --> 00:17:55.390
what Sue is doing is redesigning her chemistry.

00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.220
- Alright, there you go ma'am.

00:18:04.824 --> 00:18:06.367
- Are you gonna hold it?

00:18:06.367 --> 00:18:09.560
- Oh yeah. - I'm gonna go right here.

00:18:10.739 --> 00:18:11.980
Ready? - Yeah.

00:18:13.266 --> 00:18:16.467
- Aw shit, I'm sorry. - Okay, alright.

00:18:16.467 --> 00:18:17.467
- Okay, deep breath.

00:18:18.885 --> 00:18:21.026
There, that's it.

00:18:21.026 --> 00:18:23.359
Okay, pull back. - Pull back.

00:18:28.317 --> 00:18:30.517
- His skin is different, like everything is tougher.

00:18:30.517 --> 00:18:31.427
- It's thicker. - Is that the muscle

00:18:31.427 --> 00:18:32.449
or the skin?

00:18:32.449 --> 00:18:35.877
- The skin is thicker and my muscles are a little

00:18:35.877 --> 00:18:37.417
more dense. - Like I had to push

00:18:37.417 --> 00:18:39.634
a lot harder this time. - It doesn't like,

00:18:39.634 --> 00:18:41.617
wait, am I leaking it?

00:18:41.617 --> 00:18:43.620
- Yeah, it is leaking. - It is leaking

00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:46.620
but we can't do anything about that.

00:18:51.907 --> 00:18:56.907
- Process is going good, I went in last Thursday

00:18:57.067 --> 00:19:02.067
for my, what, my fourth shot and I saw the doctor

00:19:03.497 --> 00:19:06.477
actually in person again that time.

00:19:06.477 --> 00:19:10.517
And she raised my hormone level that I'm receiving

00:19:10.517 --> 00:19:15.284
to 200 milligrams up from 150.

00:19:22.644 --> 00:19:27.157
My tits are shrunk. - Yeah?

00:19:27.157 --> 00:19:29.847
- I called the house and I was like, Theo,

00:19:29.847 --> 00:19:31.457
and we had out little conversation and at the end,

00:19:31.457 --> 00:19:35.707
I just said, wow, your voice is really changing.

00:19:35.707 --> 00:19:38.867
- Theo, I've noticed that Theo is like burly now,

00:19:38.867 --> 00:19:43.807
like brawny man, like filled out and lower voice

00:19:45.131 --> 00:19:49.140
but I'm, it's such a slow process too, I'm like,

00:19:50.326 --> 00:19:52.307
I'm like, okay okay.

00:19:52.307 --> 00:19:56.767
- He is in this adolescent hormonal state

00:19:56.767 --> 00:20:01.464
so that he's like extremely just exuberant and into himself

00:20:03.167 --> 00:20:05.540
in a way that Sue was never into herself.

00:20:08.196 --> 00:20:10.558
(laughs)

00:20:10.558 --> 00:20:13.058
- [Woman] Look what I'm doing!

00:20:17.448 --> 00:20:20.537
- I see him being really narcissistic a lot right now

00:20:20.537 --> 00:20:24.187
and really preoccupied with all of the extremely

00:20:24.187 --> 00:20:26.037
subtle changes.

00:20:26.037 --> 00:20:28.117
- When you look at me, it doesn't look like I've got

00:20:28.117 --> 00:20:32.297
a lot of hair, and I don't, but I've never had any hair,

00:20:32.297 --> 00:20:34.647
like I've been really hairless.

00:20:34.647 --> 00:20:37.827
- All he would do, all day long, was like stand

00:20:37.827 --> 00:20:40.147
in the mirror and go, ooh, Lisi, Lisi, look,

00:20:40.147 --> 00:20:41.827
there's new hair, can you see it, can you see it,

00:20:41.827 --> 00:20:42.747
can you see it?

00:20:42.747 --> 00:20:44.467
And I'd be like, um.

00:20:44.467 --> 00:20:47.057
- So when I notice some hair happening,

00:20:47.057 --> 00:20:50.257
I'm just like ooh, like there's a few black hairs

00:20:50.257 --> 00:20:53.887
on my hands but mostly blonde right now and you can't even

00:20:53.887 --> 00:20:56.147
really see them but I see them and I'm like hoho.

00:20:56.147 --> 00:20:58.551
- Well I've heard a lot about his clit.

00:20:58.551 --> 00:20:59.384
(laughs)

00:20:59.384 --> 00:21:00.835
He likes to talk about his clit.

00:21:00.835 --> 00:21:02.009
- [Woman] His clit.

00:21:02.009 --> 00:21:04.782
(laughs)

00:21:04.782 --> 00:21:06.937
- We've started calling him little tate.

00:21:06.937 --> 00:21:07.770
- Tator tot.

00:21:09.866 --> 00:21:11.647
- Well I'm definitely a lot hornier.

00:21:11.647 --> 00:21:15.357
I've had to relearn how to masturbate

00:21:15.357 --> 00:21:16.967
because my clit's bigger.

00:21:16.967 --> 00:21:19.547
I have to get another vibrator, no shit,

00:21:19.547 --> 00:21:21.617
because mine is starting to short out.

00:21:21.617 --> 00:21:26.587
My shoulder has been sore from jerking off

00:21:26.587 --> 00:21:30.914
and holding the vibrator so I have to start being a lefty.

00:21:30.914 --> 00:21:32.997
(laughs)

00:21:34.152 --> 00:21:36.060
Oh god.

00:21:36.060 --> 00:21:37.024
I haven't been able to get this down,

00:21:37.024 --> 00:21:39.627
well enough yet to do it really fast.

00:21:46.157 --> 00:21:49.767
- The more he focuses on these extremely subtle changes,

00:21:49.767 --> 00:21:51.830
the more he seems like a woman to me.

00:21:53.340 --> 00:21:55.947
And so I've kinda lost the sense of like,

00:21:55.947 --> 00:21:58.847
him becoming a man, and I haven't shared that with him

00:21:58.847 --> 00:22:01.127
'cause I think he'd be bummed 'cause he's really trying

00:22:01.127 --> 00:22:03.160
to move into this masculinity.

00:22:08.388 --> 00:22:09.638
- I got it all.

00:22:10.853 --> 00:22:11.936
Clean-shaven.

00:22:12.979 --> 00:22:15.876
(upbeat music)

00:22:15.876 --> 00:22:17.126
Are these even?

00:22:18.958 --> 00:22:20.875
- Yeah, they look even.

00:22:21.993 --> 00:22:23.724
I like them.

00:22:23.724 --> 00:22:28.457
♪ Always something you can see or touch ♪

00:22:28.457 --> 00:22:31.197
- I believe that this entire man thing,

00:22:31.197 --> 00:22:35.787
the whole using pronouns, emulating what our society

00:22:35.787 --> 00:22:40.257
puts out as manliness, all of that is simply a way

00:22:40.257 --> 00:22:45.257
to access power and I don't mean like Theo's accessing

00:22:45.277 --> 00:22:47.237
male power or privilege, I don't mean that.

00:22:47.237 --> 00:22:51.727
What I mean is that, for instance, language is power,

00:22:51.727 --> 00:22:54.057
our ability to name ourselves.

00:22:54.057 --> 00:22:56.527
- Labels are freaking me out these days.

00:22:56.527 --> 00:22:58.500
- What do you mean? - I can't find any labels

00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:00.587
that work.

00:23:00.587 --> 00:23:03.020
I identify as a dyke.

00:23:04.087 --> 00:23:06.017
I don't think I'm straight.

00:23:06.017 --> 00:23:07.427
I'm attracted to fags.

00:23:07.427 --> 00:23:10.537
I guess I don't identify as a lesbian.

00:23:10.537 --> 00:23:14.907
I don't even really think I'm really bisexual in practice.

00:23:14.907 --> 00:23:17.497
- [Woman] For Theo to be able to choose what to call

00:23:17.497 --> 00:23:21.227
himself, to say, well, I choose to call myself he,

00:23:21.227 --> 00:23:25.217
I choose to personify that gender, is a way of accessing

00:23:25.217 --> 00:23:28.557
internal power in a society that's very limited.

00:23:28.557 --> 00:23:30.267
- I guess I could say I'm a femme dyke.

00:23:30.267 --> 00:23:32.349
I wouldn't say, oh I'm not a lesbian, I would just say,

00:23:32.349 --> 00:23:34.927
that's not really the word that I choose.

00:23:34.927 --> 00:23:38.990
I think in many ways, I feel like I always felt.

00:23:39.947 --> 00:23:43.567
Except that my partner's changing genders.

00:23:46.027 --> 00:23:49.197
- [Woman] We can all start saying he, we can all start

00:23:49.197 --> 00:23:53.507
calling Sue Theo and it's this very, it's a simple

00:23:54.777 --> 00:23:58.637
but very deep way of saying, we're with you

00:23:58.637 --> 00:24:02.360
and you get to choose and you get to be who you are.

00:24:03.667 --> 00:24:07.090
- [Lisi] I can't think of any single label to describe me.

00:24:09.227 --> 00:24:12.824
I can't, so I just exist in the space of non-labelness.

00:24:14.771 --> 00:24:17.438
(intense music)

00:24:25.757 --> 00:24:30.757
Sometimes I just think that Theo is just, is just a word.

00:24:33.727 --> 00:24:36.977
(many voices speaking)

00:25:37.776 --> 00:25:41.727
- So what's that picture of? - This shows three

00:25:41.727 --> 00:25:46.727
of the common sites for intramuscular injections.

00:25:46.957 --> 00:25:49.227
Let's see what else we have here.

00:25:49.227 --> 00:25:52.507
I think I gotta be in this class.

00:25:52.507 --> 00:25:54.767
Well I'm doing the medical assisting program

00:25:54.767 --> 00:25:58.047
at what you call it, city college.

00:25:58.047 --> 00:26:03.047
I had finally got done with my first term of school

00:26:03.137 --> 00:26:08.137
after not having been in college for a long long time.

00:26:09.817 --> 00:26:11.487
- School boy? - School boy.

00:26:11.487 --> 00:26:14.097
I was really freaked out about it before I started.

00:26:14.097 --> 00:26:17.217
I was all freaked out about, do I need to totally

00:26:17.217 --> 00:26:19.337
bind my tits up and do all this stuff

00:26:19.337 --> 00:26:23.167
and what are people gonna think?

00:26:23.167 --> 00:26:24.747
I'm more concerned about my breasts now

00:26:24.747 --> 00:26:27.946
because they're atrophying and I've noticed there are

00:26:27.946 --> 00:26:30.967
places on my breasts are a little cold and stuff,

00:26:30.967 --> 00:26:34.617
like circulation's not happening and stuff like that.

00:26:34.617 --> 00:26:36.967
Throughout the whole term, there were some people

00:26:36.967 --> 00:26:39.867
who will call me he and there were some people

00:26:39.867 --> 00:26:41.517
who would call me she and there were some people

00:26:41.517 --> 00:26:45.227
who would kinda mix it, every now and then.

00:26:45.227 --> 00:26:49.447
And I'm enrolled as Theo and as a male

00:26:49.447 --> 00:26:54.447
so as far as the administrative stuff at school goes,

00:26:54.537 --> 00:26:56.580
I'm the guy named Theo.

00:27:00.974 --> 00:27:03.557
(gentle music)

00:27:04.836 --> 00:27:07.527
Are we alone, did Lisi go to the library?

00:27:07.527 --> 00:27:11.860
- I'm kind of been having sort of a hard time lately.

00:27:12.717 --> 00:27:15.727
- Lisi didn't talk about anything, right,

00:27:15.727 --> 00:27:16.797
during her interview?

00:27:16.797 --> 00:27:18.407
Okay.

00:27:18.407 --> 00:27:20.028
Well. - She didn't confess

00:27:20.028 --> 00:27:21.887
or anything. - She didn't confess?

00:27:21.887 --> 00:27:23.772
- And things started to kinda fall apart

00:27:23.772 --> 00:27:27.227
like all of a sudden, like things started to fall apart.

00:27:27.227 --> 00:27:30.987
- She had an affair with somebody

00:27:32.247 --> 00:27:37.247
who lives here in this town and it'd been like something

00:27:37.977 --> 00:27:41.787
that was gonna happen, that was set up to happen.

00:27:41.787 --> 00:27:44.727
- Theo and I have a really good partnership

00:27:44.727 --> 00:27:48.397
and we really care deeply about each other.

00:27:48.397 --> 00:27:53.077
I think that I worry, I mean, any number of things,

00:27:53.077 --> 00:27:56.350
like on one hand that's really a fag.

00:27:58.766 --> 00:27:59.707
And that he's gonna leave me.

00:27:59.707 --> 00:28:02.287
- Lisi and I are kinda in different places right now too,

00:28:02.287 --> 00:28:03.477
that's a little difficult.

00:28:03.477 --> 00:28:07.347
She's in a place where she's had to like cut back

00:28:07.347 --> 00:28:11.577
on a lot of her stuff, her acting, all this kind of stuff

00:28:11.577 --> 00:28:15.377
to work on the issues that she needs to work on.

00:28:15.377 --> 00:28:18.017
And I'm in a place where I'm feeling really strong

00:28:18.017 --> 00:28:21.294
in myself and really aware of who I am

00:28:21.294 --> 00:28:26.294
and really confident and really happy and stuff like that,

00:28:26.507 --> 00:28:28.867
and I'm feeling like I wanna get out there in the world

00:28:28.867 --> 00:28:30.117
and I've been doing that.

00:28:34.287 --> 00:28:36.870
(drum beating)

00:28:40.604 --> 00:28:45.227
- [Woman] I think that Theo has, he now feels, I am a man.

00:28:45.227 --> 00:28:48.077
But now he's sort of pondering the bigger questions,

00:28:48.077 --> 00:28:49.877
these existential questions.

00:28:49.877 --> 00:28:54.377
- [Theo] Some of the behaviors associated with being male,

00:28:54.377 --> 00:28:57.150
I am, just kinda freak me out.

00:28:58.655 --> 00:29:01.687
And I don't really wanna be a part of varying degrees

00:29:01.687 --> 00:29:06.687
of misogyny or narcissism or, kinda depends on what

00:29:10.857 --> 00:29:15.597
I've been having a problem with lately is connecting

00:29:15.597 --> 00:29:18.647
with guys, any kind of guys, straight guys, whatever,

00:29:18.647 --> 00:29:23.647
who feel like I do, or who are like me.

00:29:27.647 --> 00:29:30.107
- [Julie] Well what kind of man are you gonna be?

00:29:30.107 --> 00:29:33.550
- [Theo] Kinda sensitive, kind of open.

00:29:36.557 --> 00:29:37.857
Weird.

00:29:37.857 --> 00:29:38.807
Stuff like that.

00:29:40.487 --> 00:29:43.377
- I'm not so sure that it's a transexual issue

00:29:43.377 --> 00:29:46.717
that he is having a hard time feeling accepted

00:29:46.717 --> 00:29:49.437
by the boys' club.

00:29:49.437 --> 00:29:51.331
In a way I think.

00:29:51.331 --> 00:29:53.137
- [Theo] See, I was like thinking for quite awhile

00:29:53.137 --> 00:29:58.137
that there was this stuff about men that I needed to learn

00:29:59.887 --> 00:30:03.837
that I wasn't getting, this kind of man-thing

00:30:03.837 --> 00:30:06.440
that you had to learn how to be a man.

00:30:08.007 --> 00:30:11.627
I wasn't getting it and I was feeling like,

00:30:11.627 --> 00:30:13.647
well maybe that's why I'm not connecting with guys

00:30:13.647 --> 00:30:16.280
because of that, because I'm.

00:30:19.377 --> 00:30:21.937
- [Woman] Men like Theo find themselves with a lot of women

00:30:21.937 --> 00:30:24.797
friends, they always do, sometimes they don't even have

00:30:24.797 --> 00:30:28.467
any male friends, and they find this longing

00:30:28.467 --> 00:30:31.764
for someone to identify, not necessarily even.

00:30:31.764 --> 00:30:35.537
- [Theo] And what I've been having a problem with lately

00:30:35.537 --> 00:30:39.509
is connecting with guys.

00:30:39.509 --> 00:30:42.092
(gentle music)

00:31:07.277 --> 00:31:10.157
- Any number of things have kept me from kind of

00:31:10.157 --> 00:31:13.937
being out as a partner of an FTM and just kind of being

00:31:13.937 --> 00:31:18.207
a little more, looking for support, saying hey,

00:31:18.207 --> 00:31:20.897
this is really happening with, this is something

00:31:20.897 --> 00:31:25.897
that's a part of my life that I need some support around.

00:31:27.387 --> 00:31:30.517
There was a FTM conference, it was an international

00:31:30.517 --> 00:31:34.007
conference and was held at New College

00:31:34.007 --> 00:31:36.690
in the Women's Building in San Francisco this summer.

00:31:37.797 --> 00:31:39.807
So I go to this meeting, a partners' meeting

00:31:39.807 --> 00:31:41.927
and it's like huge.

00:31:41.927 --> 00:31:45.357
Totally huge and there's women there and men there

00:31:46.197 --> 00:31:49.717
from all around the country and all different styles

00:31:49.717 --> 00:31:54.717
of presentation and cultural things,

00:31:54.757 --> 00:31:58.607
I was totally exhilarated to be in that room.

00:31:58.607 --> 00:32:00.907
And in these meetings, I'm meeting a lot of people

00:32:00.907 --> 00:32:05.777
whose experience really intersects my own and it's really

00:32:05.777 --> 00:32:10.197
great to have it, it makes a huge difference in my life.

00:32:10.197 --> 00:32:14.307
- [Julie] So Theo, what's going on with you?

00:32:14.307 --> 00:32:19.047
- Well I'm getting the breast surgery or top surgery

00:32:19.047 --> 00:32:21.690
or however you wanna say it Friday.

00:32:22.837 --> 00:32:27.157
So the 19th of January, 7:30 in the morning,

00:32:27.157 --> 00:32:31.117
today is Monday, the what, what is it?

00:32:31.117 --> 00:32:32.660
- 15th. - 15th, yeah.

00:32:33.628 --> 00:32:36.717
- Okay, and did you eat or drink anything this morning?

00:32:36.717 --> 00:32:38.187
- No. - And are you allergic

00:32:38.187 --> 00:32:40.065
to any medications that you know of?

00:32:40.065 --> 00:32:41.453
- Not that I'm aware of. - Okay.

00:32:41.453 --> 00:32:43.287
Any health problems at all? - No.

00:32:43.287 --> 00:32:44.237
- Good.

00:32:44.237 --> 00:32:46.418
Any problem with heartburn that wakes you up at night?

00:32:46.418 --> 00:32:47.444
- No. - Okay,

00:32:47.444 --> 00:32:49.956
I'm gonna start your IV.

00:32:49.956 --> 00:32:51.758
- I've got a thermometer.

00:32:51.758 --> 00:32:54.445
- I'm just gonna tap on your vein here a little bit.

00:32:54.445 --> 00:32:55.611
- Could you hand me some white tape?

00:32:55.611 --> 00:32:58.361
- [Nurse] May be a little drowsy.

00:32:59.943 --> 00:33:02.077
- In one of the women's cases, she was talking about

00:33:02.077 --> 00:33:05.477
her partner 'cause he really was sort of planning

00:33:05.477 --> 00:33:07.757
on doing hormones and planning on doing surgery

00:33:07.757 --> 00:33:11.267
and she wanted to facilitate it by loaning her partner

00:33:11.267 --> 00:33:13.547
the money and her thing was like, I have this money

00:33:13.547 --> 00:33:16.257
or I have this credit card, that's what she said.

00:33:16.257 --> 00:33:19.587
And it just occurred to me that like, I have credit.

00:33:19.587 --> 00:33:21.357
I could do this.

00:33:21.357 --> 00:33:26.357
And sort of true to form, I like jumped out with that

00:33:27.077 --> 00:33:29.497
to him, to Theo, I was sitting over there

00:33:29.497 --> 00:33:31.317
and he was sitting over here and I got this credit

00:33:31.317 --> 00:33:34.455
application in the mail, it was like for $7500

00:33:34.455 --> 00:33:39.447
and I was like, right on, if I can get this, we can do this.

00:33:41.783 --> 00:33:43.442
- Mhmm. - Like that?

00:33:43.442 --> 00:33:44.407
(snickers)

00:33:44.407 --> 00:33:46.357
- I'm gonna put some preliminary marks.

00:34:16.307 --> 00:34:18.110
Okay I'm gonna be taking a couple pictures

00:34:18.110 --> 00:34:20.237
if you don't mind. - No no, not at all.

00:34:20.237 --> 00:34:23.344
- Actually I'm just zooming in on the tattoo.

00:34:23.344 --> 00:34:25.228
- Okay. - No, I'm just kidding.

00:34:25.228 --> 00:34:27.311
(laughs)

00:34:30.193 --> 00:34:31.777
- That's it. - Okay.

00:34:49.037 --> 00:34:52.084
- [Nurse] That is not some of the fun part of the job.

00:34:52.084 --> 00:34:53.001
I remember.

00:34:55.507 --> 00:34:56.840
It's awful hard.

00:35:52.020 --> 00:35:53.476
(laughs)

00:35:53.476 --> 00:35:57.476
- And now we're a pair, we walk down this aisle.

00:36:22.702 --> 00:36:26.105
- Yay, your tits are gone! - Wow.

00:36:26.105 --> 00:36:27.647
- Under there, and this is a binder,

00:36:27.647 --> 00:36:30.010
I'll be wearing that for two weeks.

00:36:31.117 --> 00:36:33.540
And these come out after five days.

00:36:36.677 --> 00:36:38.600
- Cool. - Yeah.

00:36:41.441 --> 00:36:43.908
- You still walk funny.

00:36:43.908 --> 00:36:44.741
- Yeah.

00:36:45.594 --> 00:36:47.377
We want it to all like.

00:36:47.377 --> 00:36:48.534
- When do I get to see it?

00:36:48.534 --> 00:36:51.014
- Well I wanna take a shower right now.

00:36:51.014 --> 00:36:52.014
- Right now.

00:37:05.796 --> 00:37:08.369
Is that good? - Yeah, that's good.

00:37:08.369 --> 00:37:09.202
Thank you.

00:37:17.012 --> 00:37:18.104
(laughs)

00:37:18.104 --> 00:37:20.518
- You pull this up and tie it.

00:37:20.518 --> 00:37:22.697
- [Julie] What's that for?

00:37:22.697 --> 00:37:24.046
Just a little style?

00:37:24.046 --> 00:37:26.007
- It's just leftover girlish charm, I think.

00:37:26.007 --> 00:37:26.905
- Yeah.

00:37:26.905 --> 00:37:29.155
(chuckles)

00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.197
- There he is. - That's right.

00:37:45.197 --> 00:37:47.457
Look like somebody you want taking care of you?

00:37:47.457 --> 00:37:49.135
I don't know.

00:37:49.135 --> 00:37:51.218
(laughs)

00:37:54.127 --> 00:37:56.547
See my little white nurse-y shoes?

00:37:56.547 --> 00:37:58.939
(chuckles)

00:37:58.939 --> 00:37:59.857
- [Julie] Did you get, did you have a lot of ones

00:37:59.857 --> 00:38:03.130
to pick from? - Oh yeah, like two.

00:38:07.797 --> 00:38:12.797
The uniform was 170, stethoscope 70, shoes 100,

00:38:15.127 --> 00:38:17.010
books I don't even wanna think about.

00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:22.807
What else? - Going to school

00:38:22.807 --> 00:38:24.497
is expensive. - Yes it is.

00:38:24.497 --> 00:38:26.107
- [Julie] But you know, they just figure

00:38:26.107 --> 00:38:28.547
you're gonna have a high-paying job someday.

00:38:28.547 --> 00:38:31.440
- Yeah, someday, hopefully.

00:38:36.647 --> 00:38:41.197
I'm not your typical guy and some guys pick up on that

00:38:42.477 --> 00:38:43.727
pretty quickly.

00:38:43.727 --> 00:38:45.727
- [Lisi] How do you mean you're not a typical guy?

00:38:45.727 --> 00:38:47.440
- I'm not, you know, I don't know.

00:38:48.810 --> 00:38:52.487
There's this way of behaving that men have,

00:38:52.487 --> 00:38:55.924
some certain things that guys do that,

00:38:55.924 --> 00:39:00.924
some of it I know and some of it I don't,

00:39:01.367 --> 00:39:05.677
this walk or this kind of silent communication or whatever,

00:39:05.677 --> 00:39:07.477
I know there's some stuff going on there

00:39:07.477 --> 00:39:09.387
that I'm just not picking up.

00:39:09.387 --> 00:39:12.047
- What about gay guys? - Gay guys,

00:39:12.047 --> 00:39:17.047
I'm being, I get looked at a lot more and I don't know what,

00:39:19.627 --> 00:39:22.597
I know there's this whole code about how you're supposed

00:39:22.597 --> 00:39:23.947
to look, how long you're supposed to look,

00:39:23.947 --> 00:39:26.387
if you look at all, what does that mean, if you don't look

00:39:26.387 --> 00:39:28.015
or if you do look, whatever.

00:39:28.015 --> 00:39:31.327
I'm just like, oh whoa, what is all that?

00:39:31.327 --> 00:39:35.717
'Cause you know, I'm figuring out that I'm a bi guy

00:39:35.717 --> 00:39:39.317
and definitely am turned onto some guys or whatever

00:39:39.317 --> 00:39:42.597
and feeling okay about that and stuff,

00:39:42.597 --> 00:39:45.664
I'm kinda freaked, a little scared, not freaked out,

00:39:45.664 --> 00:39:48.967
little scared and nervous and shy and whatever

00:39:48.967 --> 00:39:50.490
and I'm just kinda like, ooh.

00:39:51.517 --> 00:39:55.300
I mean, I made that realization about my sexuality and it's,

00:39:58.017 --> 00:40:00.780
that's, yeah, I'm kinda sitting with that,

00:40:02.073 --> 00:40:04.307
I'm just kinda like, you know.

00:40:04.307 --> 00:40:08.049
At some point, I'm gonna wanna explore that

00:40:08.049 --> 00:40:10.120
on a more physical level.

00:40:11.797 --> 00:40:16.797
And right now, I'm just not, I'm not interested

00:40:17.317 --> 00:40:21.188
in doing that because I'm not, but at some point

00:40:21.188 --> 00:40:24.610
I'm gonna wanna do that and I would,

00:40:27.027 --> 00:40:32.027
I would like to do it in a, have our relationship

00:40:32.527 --> 00:40:36.080
and be able to explore that, you know?

00:40:37.077 --> 00:40:41.677
- Yeah, it's sort of never been a really functional thing

00:40:41.677 --> 00:40:45.287
for me as of yet in any relationship that I've been in.

00:40:45.287 --> 00:40:47.844
Plus, we haven't really reached a point,

00:40:47.844 --> 00:40:51.760
in our relationship, where this is sort of dealable.

00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:54.137
I mean, I feel like we're just out of the woods

00:40:54.137 --> 00:40:59.137
as far as even moving through this transition so for me,

00:40:59.477 --> 00:41:02.390
it's sort of like, I always, poor Theo,

00:41:03.237 --> 00:41:07.117
even though Theo is like I love you and I'm not,

00:41:07.117 --> 00:41:09.077
I don't wanna leave you, and I'm always like,

00:41:09.077 --> 00:41:11.457
well great, now you're just gonna go off and become

00:41:11.457 --> 00:41:14.617
a big fag on me and I'm not, and then all this work

00:41:14.617 --> 00:41:17.614
that we've done and everything is gonna be like for naught.

00:41:23.944 --> 00:41:25.403
- I work for the city.

00:41:25.403 --> 00:41:28.077
(laughs)

00:41:28.077 --> 00:41:31.007
There's a few different insurance plans

00:41:31.007 --> 00:41:36.007
that honor domestic partners, you know what I mean?

00:41:36.767 --> 00:41:40.077
To whatever, and city plan does that.

00:41:40.077 --> 00:41:45.077
So doing this here is to get Lisi on my insurance.

00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.267
- [Lisi] We're gonna do some sort of commitment ceremony

00:41:52.267 --> 00:41:55.100
at some point, but not today.

00:41:57.617 --> 00:42:00.907
- No actually it's a ruby. - Oh it's a ruby.

00:42:00.907 --> 00:42:01.740
- Yeah. - Oh.

00:42:01.740 --> 00:42:03.083
- [Julie] It looks pretty purple for a ruby.

00:42:03.083 --> 00:42:04.796
- [Lisi] That's why I said it was an amethyst.

00:42:04.796 --> 00:42:06.342
- [Theo] Oh okay, it's a sapphire.

00:42:06.342 --> 00:42:07.175
(laughs)

00:42:07.175 --> 00:42:08.790
- [Lisi] No it's not, it's a special gem,

00:42:08.790 --> 00:42:12.540
the heart of hell.

00:42:27.567 --> 00:42:29.492
- Information about it, okay?

00:42:29.492 --> 00:42:31.557
And if you wanna fill this out over there

00:42:31.557 --> 00:42:33.017
on that counter, when you're ready,

00:42:33.017 --> 00:42:34.387
come back to put your name in there.

00:42:34.387 --> 00:42:35.428
- Great. - Thanks.

00:42:35.428 --> 00:42:37.845
- [Secretary] You're welcome.

00:42:41.707 --> 00:42:43.250
- Here, you gotta witness this.

00:42:45.271 --> 00:42:47.521
- [Secretary] Make it out to SF County Clerk.

00:42:59.569 --> 00:43:01.762
(cheerful music)

00:43:01.762 --> 00:43:03.489
- I'm so happy.

00:43:03.489 --> 00:43:05.572
(laughs)

00:43:25.677 --> 00:43:28.277
- How long have we been doing your shot now, Theo?

00:43:28.277 --> 00:43:30.003
Three years?

00:43:30.003 --> 00:43:31.659
- About four. - Four?

00:43:31.659 --> 00:43:33.262
- Four. - Five.

00:43:33.262 --> 00:43:35.513
- Is it five? - Mhmm.

00:43:35.513 --> 00:43:38.787
- [Julie] We started in February '94.

00:43:38.787 --> 00:43:40.627
You ever wanna know any facts about your life?

00:43:40.627 --> 00:43:42.817
- Yeah, fill me in. - Ask me.

00:43:44.467 --> 00:43:46.567
- [Julie] What kinda testosterone are you using now,

00:43:46.567 --> 00:43:48.780
the generic kind or is it a different one?

00:43:49.857 --> 00:43:53.537
- No, the company that makes generic isn't making it

00:43:53.537 --> 00:43:58.107
right now, it's kind of a problem because there's a shortage

00:43:58.107 --> 00:44:01.137
so this is a brand name, it's very expensive,

00:44:01.137 --> 00:44:05.297
it's like over $20 just for a one-dose vial

00:44:05.297 --> 00:44:09.517
whereas before, I was paying a little over $20

00:44:09.517 --> 00:44:14.517
for a 10-mil vial or 10-dose vial for me, so.

00:44:17.422 --> 00:44:19.267
- [Julie] Wow.

00:44:19.267 --> 00:44:22.011
Do you think you're gonna keep taking it, like forever?

00:44:22.011 --> 00:44:23.860
- I don't know, I don't know.

00:44:23.860 --> 00:44:26.677
I don't know, I was kinda thinking about that,

00:44:26.677 --> 00:44:28.737
I'm just an old geezer in a nursing home,

00:44:28.737 --> 00:44:31.180
help with my testosterone, you know?

00:44:32.933 --> 00:44:34.016
I don't know.

00:44:35.267 --> 00:44:38.027
You know, if it gets really outrageously hard to get,

00:44:38.027 --> 00:44:40.352
well forget about it.

00:44:40.352 --> 00:44:41.935
- Okay, breathe in.

00:44:45.329 --> 00:44:47.120
And do it again.

00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:49.134
(breathing deeply)

00:44:49.134 --> 00:44:49.967
Good.

00:44:51.963 --> 00:44:53.630
- Okay, that's good.

00:44:57.657 --> 00:45:00.837
There were people who I've lost touch with

00:45:00.837 --> 00:45:05.837
not because of my transformation, but because that kinda

00:45:06.147 --> 00:45:09.720
shit just happens, friends come and go,

00:45:10.558 --> 00:45:14.377
but I was kinda moving off, I was real busy with school

00:45:14.377 --> 00:45:16.637
and doing a lot of other stuff like that,

00:45:16.637 --> 00:45:19.847
they were going somewhere else and what was going on

00:45:19.847 --> 00:45:24.847
with me was, I was finding that I was having

00:45:24.907 --> 00:45:27.410
this big time attraction to men.

00:45:29.312 --> 00:45:31.717
It wasn't a think where I was even thinking when would I

00:45:31.717 --> 00:45:34.757
leave Lisi and go be with men or anything,

00:45:34.757 --> 00:45:36.577
but I really just needed to look at that

00:45:36.577 --> 00:45:40.377
and so we kinda talked about it and she told me

00:45:40.377 --> 00:45:42.817
that she was having the same stuff around women,

00:45:42.817 --> 00:45:47.817
that she really needed to keep that going on in her life.

00:45:49.437 --> 00:45:53.867
So we did the whole thing of processing it

00:45:53.867 --> 00:45:57.705
and coming up with these ground rules and da da da,

00:45:57.705 --> 00:45:58.710
you can't, blah blah blah.

00:45:58.710 --> 00:46:00.877
- [Julie] What were the ground rules?

00:46:00.877 --> 00:46:05.277
- Well the basics were that we couldn't have anybody here,

00:46:05.277 --> 00:46:08.797
this is too small of a place, and we couldn't

00:46:10.647 --> 00:46:15.587
break a date that we had together to be with somebody else.

00:46:15.587 --> 00:46:18.217
We each had veto power.

00:46:18.217 --> 00:46:23.217
I think the most important one was that we just really

00:46:23.247 --> 00:46:27.837
communicate around what's going on with other lovers.

00:46:27.837 --> 00:46:28.670
- [Julie] What happened for you,

00:46:28.670 --> 00:46:30.347
how did you meet people?

00:46:30.347 --> 00:46:32.994
- Well, how'd I meet people?

00:46:34.337 --> 00:46:37.127
Just gotta say, the internet's great for,

00:46:37.127 --> 00:46:40.382
not even the internet, AOL's great for meeting people.

00:46:40.382 --> 00:46:42.965
(upbeat music)

00:47:35.136 --> 00:47:37.761
So this is not fun anymore.

00:47:37.761 --> 00:47:39.530
- It's not fun anymore? - What do you mean?

00:47:39.530 --> 00:47:42.307
- It's a chore. - The charm is gone.

00:47:44.256 --> 00:47:45.089
Okay.

00:48:53.126 --> 00:48:54.626
- [Robot] Welcome.

00:48:56.694 --> 00:48:58.157
You've got mail.

00:49:44.232 --> 00:49:47.732
- [Lisi] I feel confused about what to do.

00:50:11.537 --> 00:50:15.767
- [Julie] So do you think that ultimately that things

00:50:15.767 --> 00:50:20.767
with Theo, like the breakup, had to do with his gender?

00:50:21.137 --> 00:50:22.130
- The breakup.

00:50:30.627 --> 00:50:35.130
I think in some part, yeah.

00:50:39.297 --> 00:50:42.097
I can't, it's like I can't even talk about it or something

00:50:42.097 --> 00:50:44.217
'cause I think I just spent a lot of time

00:50:45.787 --> 00:50:50.787
really wanting to feel that gender, that his gender

00:50:52.227 --> 00:50:55.934
changing was not gonna be, have an impact on things,

00:50:58.167 --> 00:51:00.397
I mean, I knew it would have an impact

00:51:00.397 --> 00:51:03.677
but I didn't want it to have an impact of ending.

00:51:03.677 --> 00:51:06.447
I didn't want that, that was so the thing that I just

00:51:06.447 --> 00:51:08.767
did not want and it was the thing I was most afraid of

00:51:08.767 --> 00:51:13.767
and I had such a way of being so, being loyal,

00:51:16.067 --> 00:51:18.644
so based on my loyalty and my, yeah.

00:51:21.227 --> 00:51:25.207
That now, having made a decision to leave the partnership

00:51:28.333 --> 00:51:33.250
and to try to start my life again and different me

00:51:34.327 --> 00:51:39.327
and with women and like just kind of

00:51:42.337 --> 00:51:45.760
that question of, I don't know what's gonna happen.

00:51:47.697 --> 00:51:50.807
I don't know, it's almost kinda hard, it's like, oh great,

00:51:50.807 --> 00:51:55.190
now I'm like back to the beginning or something?

00:51:58.616 --> 00:52:01.199
(gentle music)

00:53:55.261 --> 00:53:57.093
(laughs)

00:53:57.093 --> 00:53:59.321
- [Woman] I know, there was like a lot in the movie,

00:53:59.321 --> 00:54:01.488
which was kind of intense.

00:54:03.607 --> 00:54:05.320
- It was all true.

00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:07.403
(laughs)

00:54:08.292 --> 00:54:09.337
Oh man.

00:54:09.337 --> 00:54:12.727
- It's all visuals, it's all how you present yourself,

00:54:12.727 --> 00:54:13.627
it's really weird.

00:54:14.700 --> 00:54:16.877
- People make whatever assumption they're gonna make.

00:54:16.877 --> 00:54:20.677
It's just like, I'm totally fine with that,

00:54:20.677 --> 00:54:24.630
I think that's where Lisi and I have our biggest,

00:54:25.617 --> 00:54:27.767
our difference right there. - What, where?

00:54:29.807 --> 00:54:33.347
- She likes, I think she's in a place now,

00:54:33.347 --> 00:54:37.247
speaking of her, get over here, where she likes to have

00:54:37.247 --> 00:54:39.734
those boundaries are really defined.

00:54:41.628 --> 00:54:43.157
- Like what boundaries? - Well no mistake

00:54:43.157 --> 00:54:45.747
about who she is, she's a big old dyke

00:54:46.804 --> 00:54:51.197
and what her community is and you look at her,

00:54:51.197 --> 00:54:52.837
that you see that, or whatever,

00:54:52.837 --> 00:54:55.217
that would be your assumption.

00:54:55.217 --> 00:54:57.257
And me, people make all kinds of assumptions,

00:54:57.257 --> 00:55:01.047
I'm gay, I'm straight, I'm whatever, and it's like,

00:55:01.047 --> 00:55:06.047
hey, I'm a big old bi trans man with a pussy.

00:55:06.140 --> 00:55:07.647
(laughs)

00:55:07.647 --> 00:55:09.717
Bet you wouldn't have figured that out.

00:55:09.717 --> 00:55:14.400
So I'm really, like whatever, pretty relaxed with that.

00:55:24.678 --> 00:55:28.761
- [Julie] Well what kind of man are you gonna be?

00:55:29.985 --> 00:55:30.818
- [Theo] I don't know, I don't know.

00:55:31.967 --> 00:55:33.250
What kind of man am I?

00:55:34.087 --> 00:55:34.930
You tell me.

00:55:37.737 --> 00:55:39.860
What kind of man I've always been.

00:55:57.726 --> 00:55:59.902
♪ I heard him laughing and I heard him cuss ♪

00:55:59.902 --> 00:56:02.209
♪ And he went for his gun and I pulled mine first ♪

00:56:02.209 --> 00:56:05.065
♪ He stood there looking at me and I saw him smile ♪

00:56:05.065 --> 00:56:08.897
♪ And he said, son, this world is rough ♪

00:56:08.897 --> 00:56:10.587
♪ And if a man's gonna make it ♪

00:56:10.587 --> 00:56:13.198
♪ He's gotta be tough and I know I wouldn't be there ♪

00:56:13.198 --> 00:56:15.536
♪ To help you along ♪

00:56:15.536 --> 00:56:18.526
♪ So I give you that name and I said goodbye ♪

00:56:18.526 --> 00:56:21.080
♪ I knew you'd have to get tough or die ♪

00:56:21.080 --> 00:56:25.923
♪ And it's that name that helped to make you strong ♪

00:56:25.923 --> 00:56:29.417
♪ Yeah, he said now you just fought one hell of a fight ♪

00:56:29.417 --> 00:56:31.702
♪ And I know you hate me and you got the right ♪

00:56:31.702 --> 00:56:36.689
♪ To kill me now and I wouldn't blame you if you do ♪

00:56:36.689 --> 00:56:38.936
♪ But you oughta thank me before I die ♪

00:56:38.936 --> 00:56:41.206
♪ For the gravel in the guts and the spit in your eye ♪

00:56:41.206 --> 00:56:46.206
♪ 'Cause I'm the (bleep) that named you Sue ♪