WEBVTT

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There are all sorts of dangers.

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Postal workers,

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firemen, police officers...

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Everything has a risk to it.

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I would prefer, personally,
to have a challenging,
stimulating...

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and emotionally
and spiritually
rewarding career...

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that is short...

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rather than have a long one
that is filled with mediocrity,

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feeling as if
you don\'t make
any difference to people.

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[ Dispatcher ]

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[ Woman ]

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[ Woman ] Tiller has performed
legal abortions since 1973.

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His Women\'s Health Care Servicesclinic
is just one of threenin the nation...

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which performnlate-term abortions...

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after the 21st weeknof pregnancy.

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[ Woman Crying ]

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[ Woman ♪2 ]

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[ Man ] For more than two decades,

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George Tiller was a targetnof
antiabortion extremists.

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His Wichita clinic was bombednin 1985.

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In 1993, he was shot in both arms.

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And then, at the age of 67,
he was murdered at church.

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[ Woman ]
So you caught him unaware.
I believe so.

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[ Woman ] And do you feelthat you have
successfullyncompleted your mission?

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He\'s been stopped.

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On Twitter, one person wrote,

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\"Oh, happy day. Tiller
the baby killer is dead.\"

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Another wrote,
\"God bless the gunman.\"

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Clearly, the passions
in this issue
have not gone away.

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This man is executing babiesabout
to be born, in late term...

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Tiller\'s dead. We move
on to the next battle.

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We move on to the next villain.

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Now, U.S. Marshals are stepping up
security for others who may be targets.

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[ Man ]The death of Dr. Tiller leaves...

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only four doctors in the country who are
able to performnlate-term abortions.

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Dr. Tiller and I
and all the staff realize
that we\'re targets,

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that we\'ve taken this job
knowing that we\'re targets.

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This is a...
The result of 35 years...

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of antiabortion harassment
and terrorism
and hateful behavior.

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We\'re doing a legal,
desperately needed service.

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Dr. Tiller knewthat I was going to
continuenthis work no matter what.

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And I am.

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Hail Mary, full of Grace.
The Lord is with thee.

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Blessed art thou among women,

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and blessed is
the fruit of they womb,
Jesus.

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Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners...

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now and at the hour
of our death, amen.

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Glory be to the Father,
to his Son, and to
the Holy Spirit, amen.

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[ Gel Squirts ]

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Okay.

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Okay.

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You\'re welcome to watch
or not watch anything.

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You\'re gonna see
what you want to see.

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[ Woman Clears Throat ]

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So, anything that\'s
bothering you for any reason
any time, call, okay?

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[ Crying ]
Sad? It\'s okay.

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You gonna be all right?

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[ Gasping ]
Yes. I just...

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I can\'t...
Take a deep breath
and hold it.

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Just take a deep breath
and then hold it.
You\'ll be fine.

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Now let it out slow.

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It\'s perfectly okay.
You know? It really is.

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[ Crying ]

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Yeah. It\'s emotion.
It\'s a point now in time
that you can start to heal.

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Okay?

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All right.
You take care, babe.
[ Sighs ]

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If you need
just to talk to somebody,
call us. Okay?

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[ Sobbing ]
Is somebody
with you today?

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[ Sobbing,
Speaking Indistinctly ]

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Where are you staying tonight?

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Um, I\'m just gonna
go back to Lincoln.

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I\'ll be fine.
[ Doctor ]
I know you will.

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But you gotta remember,
you\'re an hour away.

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So if you have any questions
or problems tonight,

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call at the beginning
of the question and problem.

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Don\'t wait for an hour or two
to find out where you are.
Okay. I will.

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Okay. Thank you.
I\'d rather
talk to you ten times...

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and tell you
everything\'s okay than wish
I\'d talked to you once.

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[ Sniffling ]
Thank you. Bye-bye.

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[ Doctor ]George\'s life
pathnaffected all of us.

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You know, only thingnwe have to do...

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Shelley and Susan and Dr.
Hern and myself...

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Is to continue his work.

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[ Woman ] The battleground over
abortion moves from Kansas to Nebraska.

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[ Man ] At the centernof this
national debate, NDr. LeRoy Carhart.

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Carhart pledged to continueproviding
third-trimesternabortion services...

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after a Kansas abortion providernwas
murdered earlier this year.

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You know, George and I
are both ex-military.

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And the mission is first. And he always
saidnthe most important thing...

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is thatnthe practice carries on.

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And so, the day that Dr.
Tillernwas murdered,

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there was justno other thoughts in
my mindnbut to carry on the mission.

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[ Woman ]
Thank you.

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[ Chuckles ]

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I love it when people
keep saying, \"But when are
you gonna do the shot?\"

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\"I already
did the shot.\"

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\"You did?
I didn\'t feel anything.\"

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\"When are you
gonna do the shot?\"
[ Chuckles ]

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You know, after Dr. Tiller
was assassinated,

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there was absolutely no question
in the three doctors
who worked for him...

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In any of our minds... that we were
gonnankeep on doing this work.

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You know, Shelley and I decidednwe
wanna do this together.

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It\'s kind ofnlike a package deal.

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And so, we finally founda clinic
in New Mexico, in Albuquerque...

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that wanted to add this servicenso
we could go work there.

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And, since we both livenin California,

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we alternate weeksnflying there to work.

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- [ Sella ]
If it was which way?
- If it\'s out like that.

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Then I need to go in
and medicate.
Right, yeah. This means go in.

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And this means, \"I\'m in.\"
Yeah.

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[ Sella ]So the way I metnDr. Tiller was...

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I had started working as an
abortion provider in California.

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And I had gone to a conference.

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And he was there,
and he said, \"The woman\'s body
is smarter than the doctor\'s.\"

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So, you know, I had comenfrom
a midwifery background.

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So when I heard that, I just piped up.
N \"Oh, that\'s midwifery.\"

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And he was a little startled.

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You know, \"What?\"

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I said,
\"Oh, that\'s midwifery.\"

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And within five minutes,
he had offered me a job.

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That\'s how we met.

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I really, really, reallynliked him.

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And I felt very close to him. And
I did consider him a friend.

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And I miss him a lot.

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And there\'s so often times
where I think,

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\"Oh, God.
I\'d really like to call him
and talk to him.\"

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Yeah, I miss him tremendously.

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Both of you have a baby
who\'s really sick.

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And both of you
are facing babies
that would really suffer a lot.

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And that\'s why you\'re here,
really.

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So, that\'s
what you have in common.

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[ Woman ♪1 ]

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Well,
I think, 28, 29 or 30.
Okay.

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Because we\'ve had one doctor
say one thing and then another
say another.

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I mean, did you all
find out through sonogram?

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Yeah, we did.
We actually found out
about a week and a half ago.

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Up until then, I mean,
we thought everything was fine.

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Then we went in
and saw the ultrasound.

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They said she had a disease
called arthrogryposis...

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where she can\'t bend
at her joints.

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So she wouldn\'t be able
to walk or...

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I mean, everyday tasks,
like eating and stuff. She
would need help with everything.

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[ Man ] And we\'re both athletes.
We know how it feels like
to have fun, play, run around.

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And just knowing that
our daughter won\'t be able
to do that was...

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It was pretty hard to live with.

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So we decided that
it was just... rather not
put her through all that.

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Like, would we want to
have lived our lives
like that?

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Like just try to
put ourselves in how she
would have felt growing up.

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It just didn\'t seem fair to her.

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Mm-hmm.
So...

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What\'s it been like for you?
[ Man ]
It\'s been really hard.

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Well, my sister had a baby,
a girl. My other sister\'s
pregnant right now.

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About to have a boy.
Mmm.

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And I was the third,
about to have a girl.
So everybody was excited.

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And now, it\'s kind of like...

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- It\'s kind of over now.
- Yeah.

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[ Sniffles ]

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[ Sella ]I think aboutnwhat
I do all the time.

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And I recognize what I do.

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And at times I struggle,
and at times I don\'t.

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But I always come back...

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to the woman and what
she\'s going through.

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And... often,
what life will this...
will this baby have?

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What will it mean
to be alive with horrific
fetal abnormalities?

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It\'s not just about being alive. It\'s
about life and what does it mean?

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Thank you.

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[ Woman ♪1 ]
Okay.

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- Ours is a corpus callosum.
- Mm-hmm.

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Obviously, if the baby
didn\'t get part of his brain,

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what outcome of that
can possibly be good?

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And ours has been guilt.
Because it\'s guilt
no matter which way you go.

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Guilt if you go ahead
and do what we\'re doin\',

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or bring \'em into this world
and then he doesn\'t have
any quality of life.

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[ Man ♪2 ]
Um, we\'d already gone shoppin\'
for the room.

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And we\'d already bought a crib.
And we had already
bought dressers.

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And we had already bought
a lot of stuff and then...

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we talked, and we tried
to figure out why this happened
and what we had done wrong.

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\'Cause I have
an 11-year-old son already.

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And he\'s a good kid.
And he\'s perfect.

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So, uh...
And I coach him
in all his sports.

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And we just finished basketball.

00:12:14.626 --> 00:12:17.208
And when we met
with you yesterday,

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when you left the room,

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I mean, we...
I-I... we prayed.

00:12:23.125 --> 00:12:24.541
And I said,

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\"If I\'m not supposed to be here,

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if we\'re not
supposed to do this,
give us a sign right now.

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And we\'ll get up,
and we\'ll leave.\"

00:12:34.209 --> 00:12:39.583
I want my child to have
as good a chance as anybody
and have a quality of life...

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I mean, most people
they wouldn\'t under...

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They never go through anything
like this. They don\'t understand
the guilt that goes along.

00:12:45.334 --> 00:12:46.292
You wanna do the right thing.

00:12:46.293 --> 00:12:52.417
This is not, per se,
the right thing as
some people would view it.

00:12:52.542 --> 00:12:54.583
But I think in the end
it\'s best for the baby...

00:12:54.584 --> 00:12:59.041
not to bring them
into this hard world...
like that.

00:12:59.042 --> 00:13:02.082
And obviously,
these babies,
they will be angels.

00:13:02.083 --> 00:13:05.041
And they will go to heaven.
They haven\'t done anything.

00:13:05.042 --> 00:13:09.917
Why... Why do those things
happen to people
that do want \'em?

00:13:09.918 --> 00:13:12.333
You know?
What do you go home
and say?

00:13:12.334 --> 00:13:17.416
[ Sella ] Well, actually,
let me give you a few tips
of what to say.

00:13:17.417 --> 00:13:19.541
The baby was sick.

00:13:19.542 --> 00:13:24.417
We went for testing.
The baby didn\'t make it.

00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:27.999
It\'s hard for me
to talk about it right now.

00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.584
That\'s four sentences.
The baby was sick.

00:13:31.709 --> 00:13:35.791
Yeah.
We went for testing.
Yeah.

00:13:35.792 --> 00:13:38.416
The baby didn\'t make it.
Yes.

00:13:38.417 --> 00:13:40.875
It\'s hard for me
to talk about it right now.

00:13:40.876 --> 00:13:42.917
There\'s nothing else
you need to say.

00:13:42.918 --> 00:13:45.583
What\'s important
is that you\'ve had a loss,

00:13:45.584 --> 00:13:48.876
and right now it\'s hard
for you to talk about it.

00:13:57.250 --> 00:13:59.999
[ Sella ]After a woman has hadna
third-trimester abortion,

00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.500
I routinely askndo you feel any regrets.

00:14:03.501 --> 00:14:08.792
And I have yet to hearanyone say
that, n \"Yes, I regret it.\"

00:14:10.417 --> 00:14:11.666
But that\'s just the next day.

00:14:11.667 --> 00:14:18.249
I don\'t know how she\'ll feel
a week later, a year later,
two years later.

00:14:18.250 --> 00:14:20.959
And she doesn\'t know either.

00:14:23.584 --> 00:14:25.333
And I say, you know,

00:14:25.334 --> 00:14:29.500
you made your decision
based on what\'s going on
for you now.

00:14:29.501 --> 00:14:34.625
You can\'t lookinto the future
and know where you\'ll be.

00:14:34.626 --> 00:14:37.374
[ No Audible Dialogue ]

00:14:37.375 --> 00:14:42.375
So, if you should feel regret,
and you might,

00:14:42.626 --> 00:14:44.917
try to be kind to yourself.

00:14:44.918 --> 00:14:49.917
And try to remember
why you made
your decision...

00:14:49.918 --> 00:14:51.751
then.

00:14:53.876 --> 00:14:56.667
Because life has changed.

00:15:02.709 --> 00:15:05.082
[ Man ] This is considered
a \"late-term facility.\"

00:15:05.083 --> 00:15:07.791
This is specificallynwhat they target.

00:15:07.792 --> 00:15:10.917
He\'s one of the few
in the States
that does it.

00:15:10.918 --> 00:15:12.249
How do you know that?
They\'re
all visibly pregnant.

00:15:12.250 --> 00:15:16.666
You see that they have stomachs,
are going in here
and coming out with no stomachs.

00:15:16.667 --> 00:15:18.833
No, they don\'t come out
with no stomachs.
Oh.

00:15:18.834 --> 00:15:23.334
- It takes a few days.
- It\'s hideous.
Absolutely hideous.

00:15:23.501 --> 00:15:25.958
[ Man ]
So I just wanna pray,
just for the...

00:15:25.959 --> 00:15:28.625
You know, for the children
that have been lost.

00:15:28.626 --> 00:15:32.833
We ask for, um, healing
for these mothers...

00:15:32.834 --> 00:15:36.750
that are... the ones
choosing to do this.

00:15:36.751 --> 00:15:41.625
And this, Lord,
this just feels like evil here.

00:15:41.626 --> 00:15:42.917
Good morning,
Dr. Hern.

00:15:42.918 --> 00:15:44.625
Good morning.
How are you today?
Good.

00:15:44.626 --> 00:15:46.583
Did you want
the first patients
set up?

00:15:46.584 --> 00:15:48.417
Yeah, please.
Okay.

00:15:49.083 --> 00:15:54.625
Isn\'t it ridiculous that people
get together to smoke marijuana
in a public place?

00:15:54.626 --> 00:15:56.875
See what it does to your brain?

00:15:56.876 --> 00:15:58.291
[ Clears Throat ]

00:15:58.292 --> 00:16:01.751
Yeah, for most people,
it doesn\'t matter.

00:16:16.501 --> 00:16:20.583
[ Hern ]
So, um, how are you feeling?
[ Woman ] Yeah, much better.

00:16:20.584 --> 00:16:22.791
Yeah?
I\'m glad it\'s done.

00:16:22.792 --> 00:16:27.583
And I feel relieved
that I can put
what happened behind me...

00:16:27.584 --> 00:16:29.750
Right.
And move on with my life.

00:16:29.751 --> 00:16:32.249
When did you first
start thinking
you might be pregnant?

00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:35.416
When I missed
my first period
about 25 weeks ago.

00:16:35.417 --> 00:16:38.666
And I just pretended
I was so stressed out
from it,

00:16:38.667 --> 00:16:41.750
that it was just stress
that was causing me to miss it.
Yeah, mm-hmm.

00:16:41.751 --> 00:16:43.999
I didn\'t want to
face reality.
Right.

00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:44.876
And then I did.
Mm-hmm.

00:16:44.877 --> 00:16:47.750
Did you report this
to the police
or anything?

00:16:47.751 --> 00:16:48.791
No, I never reported it
to the police.

00:16:48.792 --> 00:16:52.374
But I have been
seeing a counselor
and she said, \"You need to go.\"

00:16:52.375 --> 00:16:54.208
Good.
You should report it.
Yeah.

00:16:54.209 --> 00:16:57.834
The person that raped you
committed a crime.

00:16:57.918 --> 00:17:01.583
And that\'s...
That\'s not okay.
It\'s not acceptable.

00:17:01.584 --> 00:17:06.458
And, it\'s, uh... This person
can\'t be permitted
to do that to you...

00:17:06.459 --> 00:17:07.708
or to anybody else.

00:17:07.709 --> 00:17:12.750
I\'d be mortified too
if I found out he did it
to someone else later on.

00:17:12.751 --> 00:17:16.750
[ Stammers ]
Even if that weren\'t true,

00:17:16.751 --> 00:17:20.291
you-you...
you need to have justice.
Yeah.

00:17:20.292 --> 00:17:23.082
You know,
if you need any help,
you just let me know.

00:17:23.083 --> 00:17:27.041
Mm-kay.
That you were here and
you needed to have this done.

00:17:27.042 --> 00:17:29.750
Mm-kay. Thank you.
That means a lot to me.

00:17:29.751 --> 00:17:33.208
You bet. Okay?
Okay. I will report it.

00:17:33.209 --> 00:17:36.750
So, you\'re gonna come here
for your follow-up exam?
Yep.

00:17:36.751 --> 00:17:37.584
Okay.
In a month.

00:17:37.585 --> 00:17:39.750
Well, you have
a safe trip home.
I will.

00:17:39.751 --> 00:17:44.333
Okay? I think you better
stay off the slopes
for the next few weeks,

00:17:44.334 --> 00:17:46.750
even though
there might be
some snow up here.

00:17:46.751 --> 00:17:48.875
I will.
Thank you so much.
Okay?

00:17:48.876 --> 00:17:50.666
You\'re welcome. You have
a safe trip home. Okay?

00:17:50.667 --> 00:17:53.083
I will.
[ Hern ]
All right?

00:17:54.751 --> 00:17:58.541
When I was in medical school,
I loved delivering babies.

00:17:58.542 --> 00:17:59.583
I thought it was wonderful.

00:17:59.584 --> 00:18:05.541
You know, I thoughtthe whole thing was
miraculous. People were very happy.

00:18:05.542 --> 00:18:07.584
I loved doing that.

00:18:08.834 --> 00:18:11.291
And then, when I wasa Peace
Corps physiciannin Brazil,

00:18:11.292 --> 00:18:15.750
there was one wardfull of women
recoveringnfrom childbirth,

00:18:15.751 --> 00:18:19.917
and there were two wardsfull of women
recoveringnfrom illegal abortion.

00:18:19.918 --> 00:18:25.834
About 40 or 50% of the women whonhad
had illegal abortions died.

00:18:26.709 --> 00:18:29.082
And then when
I was on pediatrics,

00:18:29.083 --> 00:18:32.875
we took care of,
uh, children, babies...

00:18:32.876 --> 00:18:35.751
They were abused,
they were battered.

00:18:36.083 --> 00:18:41.082
And these babies would come in
and be hopelessly, uh, damaged.

00:18:41.083 --> 00:18:43.833
Brain damage and terribly injured.

00:18:43.834 --> 00:18:48.833
Because the parentsdidn\'t want them or
they werennot prepared to be parents...

00:18:48.834 --> 00:18:49.417
nor whatever.

00:18:49.418 --> 00:18:54.458
There was a stark contrast
between the women who were
having babies they wanted...

00:18:54.459 --> 00:18:56.541
and ready to care for them...

00:18:56.542 --> 00:18:59.791
and the women who, for one reason or other,

00:18:59.792 --> 00:19:04.249
were not going totake care of their
babies and continue with that.

00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:09.917
So I\'ve looked at this
from the beginning
as a public health issue.

00:19:09.918 --> 00:19:11.917
I met Dr. Tillernin the late \'70s.

00:19:11.918 --> 00:19:17.626
The first time that I dida
third-trimester abortionnwas in 1982.

00:19:17.918 --> 00:19:19.082
And during the lastn15 years or so,

00:19:19.083 --> 00:19:25.000
we were among the only peoplein the
world doingnreally late abortions.

00:19:34.209 --> 00:19:39.374
Good morning, sweetheart.
Honey, we\'re out here
because we care about you.

00:19:39.375 --> 00:19:41.666
You know, there\'s a center
right across the street...

00:19:41.667 --> 00:19:44.500
that will give you free help
and support.

00:19:44.501 --> 00:19:47.250
Please come out
and talk with us.

00:19:51.584 --> 00:19:53.583
You have a referral
for Dr. LeRoy Carhart.

00:19:53.584 --> 00:19:57.291
Obstetrics and Gynecology.
Guess that\'s a nice way
to put it.

00:19:57.292 --> 00:19:58.500
[ Chuckles ]

00:19:58.501 --> 00:19:59.958
Mm-hmm.

00:19:59.959 --> 00:20:01.666
[ Carhart ]Mary and Inmet
in the fifth grade.

00:20:01.667 --> 00:20:04.625
Her desk was in front of mine,
and I was always a pain
in the ass.

00:20:04.626 --> 00:20:09.999
She used to have pigtails.
I used to put \'em in...
They had real inkwells.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.625
And...
[ Chuckles ]

00:20:11.626 --> 00:20:16.917
So, we\'ve reallyjust been
togethernsince we were, like, 12.

00:20:16.918 --> 00:20:20.583
She\'s also the administrator
of the clinic, so...

00:20:20.584 --> 00:20:22.625
I really just do
what needs to be done,

00:20:22.626 --> 00:20:23.999
which is always a lot.
[ Chuckles ]

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:29.958
[ Carhart ] I think the factthat she\'s
here gives menthe strength to continue.

00:20:29.959 --> 00:20:32.208
You know, I just thinknthat\'s
the total difference.

00:20:32.209 --> 00:20:35.958
He sleeps at night.
I\'m the one that
can\'t sleep at night.

00:20:35.959 --> 00:20:37.208
[ Chuckles ]
Yeah.

00:20:37.209 --> 00:20:41.542
But, uh... I just...
I just still worry.

00:20:41.626 --> 00:20:44.458
- Good evening,
I\'m Rob McCartney.
- I\'m Brandi Petersen.

00:20:44.459 --> 00:20:47.750
Nebraska is again atnthe forefront
of the abortion debate.

00:20:47.751 --> 00:20:48.875
Today lawmakers heard
a proposal...

00:20:48.876 --> 00:20:52.082
that would limit
any abortion in the state
to 20 weeks.

00:20:52.083 --> 00:20:54.666
[ Man ]Metal detectors andntight
security greet those...

00:20:54.667 --> 00:20:58.166
wanting to testify inthe Fetal Pain
Prevention Actnin the capitol building.

00:20:58.167 --> 00:21:03.541
It would place Nebraska asthe first state to
ban abortionsnafter 20 weeks of a pregnancy,

00:21:03.542 --> 00:21:06.583
because some say that\'snwhen
a fetus feels pain.

00:21:06.584 --> 00:21:08.583
In the wake
of Dr. Tiller\'s murder
in Kansas,

00:21:08.584 --> 00:21:12.708
Dr. Carhart,
a Bellevue physician,
commented to the press...

00:21:12.709 --> 00:21:16.291
that he was expanding
his late-term abortion
practice.

00:21:16.292 --> 00:21:19.416
While the bill does not impactnthe
majority of situations,

00:21:19.417 --> 00:21:25.082
it will provide a neededprotection for the
unborn childnwho is 20 weeks of age...

00:21:25.083 --> 00:21:26.500
from the painful proceduresnof an abortion.

00:21:26.501 --> 00:21:30.082
Our goal is not merely
to make abortion illegal,
but to make it unthinkable.

00:21:30.083 --> 00:21:33.917
Women deserve betterthan abortion,
and our society can do better.

00:21:33.918 --> 00:21:37.541
My bill does not
make the patient a criminal.

00:21:37.542 --> 00:21:41.875
The criminal sanctionapplies to
the providernof the abortion.

00:21:41.876 --> 00:21:45.917
[ Man ] I hate it that he\'s herein Nebraska.
I hate it thatnhe\'s anywhere in America.

00:21:45.918 --> 00:21:48.750
I mean, this guy is a...
Is a sick individual.

00:21:48.751 --> 00:21:53.750
[ Carhart ]If I just give up and
stopndoing anything after 20 weeks,

00:21:53.751 --> 00:21:57.208
some womenmay get desperate
and do things on their own.

00:21:57.209 --> 00:22:02.208
When I was in medical school,
it was during the time when
abortion was still not legal.

00:22:02.209 --> 00:22:07.875
And I saw a woman that I... I looked at
her cervix. I knew something was wrong.

00:22:07.876 --> 00:22:12.626
She just said,
\"I tried using a chopstick.\"

00:22:13.125 --> 00:22:15.958
And I\'ve had to start over,
like, three times now,

00:22:15.959 --> 00:22:17.291
because of the protestors.

00:22:17.292 --> 00:22:20.166
One more time, \"Can we do it?\"
And, \"Will we do it?\"

00:22:20.167 --> 00:22:23.584
If that\'s
what it comes down to, yes.

00:22:33.709 --> 00:22:39.583
Okay, well, I\'m glad you asked
that question. because this
is not going to be a surgery.

00:22:39.584 --> 00:22:44.082
This is going to be
a labor and delivery.
Okay?

00:22:44.083 --> 00:22:46.082
What we\'re going to do
on the first day...

00:22:46.083 --> 00:22:49.208
is we\'re going to start
dilating the cervical canal.

00:22:49.209 --> 00:22:52.291
The cervix is the opening
to the uterus.

00:22:52.292 --> 00:22:55.917
And also on that first day,
we euthanize the fetus.

00:22:55.918 --> 00:22:59.541
And that is done via injection,

00:22:59.542 --> 00:23:01.708
uh, through
your abdominal wall...

00:23:01.709 --> 00:23:05.708
and into the fetal heart
with a drug called digoxin.

00:23:05.709 --> 00:23:07.750
And that stops the heart.
Okay?

00:23:07.751 --> 00:23:14.250
The third day. And we\'re going
to be giving you a drug that\'s
going to induce contractions.

00:23:14.918 --> 00:23:20.791
Um, sometimes
the delivery will happen
very quickly.

00:23:20.792 --> 00:23:22.249
Sometimes it takes many hours.

00:23:22.250 --> 00:23:27.041
But, bottom line is,
you\'re gonna go through
a labor and delivery.

00:23:27.042 --> 00:23:31.791
Okay, so you need
to be psychologically
prepared for that.

00:23:31.792 --> 00:23:32.584
All right?

00:23:32.585 --> 00:23:36.541
So... And part of the reason
that we do abortions this way...

00:23:36.542 --> 00:23:40.416
is because we want to
preserve the integrity
of your reproductive organs.

00:23:40.417 --> 00:23:42.666
We want you to be able
to have kids in the future.

00:23:42.667 --> 00:23:44.666
To us,
that\'s a no-brainer, right?
[ Chuckles ]

00:23:44.667 --> 00:23:49.583
We want to be sure
that you can have a family
when you want to have a family.

00:23:49.584 --> 00:23:55.333
So, I would like you
to kind of not worry about
that anymore. All right?

00:23:55.334 --> 00:24:00.042
So, did you want
to go ahead and
schedule an appointment?

00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:04.459
Okay.

00:24:07.542 --> 00:24:10.917
So I\'ll do the procedure in two,
and then I\'ll meet in four.

00:24:10.918 --> 00:24:13.584
Okay.
Okay, thank you.

00:24:14.542 --> 00:24:16.333
- So, this is Monica.
- All right.

00:24:16.334 --> 00:24:19.333
But she\'s got
a lethal fetal condition.
Right, yes.

00:24:19.334 --> 00:24:24.125
She\'s very sad.
She says, \"I want this baby.
I want this baby.\"

00:24:24.542 --> 00:24:27.750
So, can you tell me
a little bit about,

00:24:27.751 --> 00:24:30.750
you know, when you first
found out about
this anomaly, and...

00:24:30.751 --> 00:24:35.374
how you reacted to that,
and a little bit about
the history of this pregnancy?

00:24:35.375 --> 00:24:40.541
Well, I was already 25...
Going on 26 weeks.

00:24:40.542 --> 00:24:47.959
Um, but the M.R.I. came back
with what\'s called
Walker-Warburg lissencephaly.

00:24:48.083 --> 00:24:51.917
Um, which is...
It\'s fatal, isn\'t it?

00:24:51.918 --> 00:24:56.583
Fatal in a lot of ways.
There\'s no way
to say when.

00:24:56.584 --> 00:25:00.666
It could be in utero.
He could be a stillborn.

00:25:00.667 --> 00:25:03.374
He would have
a very short-term life,

00:25:03.375 --> 00:25:08.374
full of shunts,
surgeries and seizures
until he would pass, so...

00:25:08.375 --> 00:25:13.708
All the doctors
that I talked to said
that he\'s not a viable child...

00:25:13.709 --> 00:25:18.500
and, um, that he would
eventually just be vegetative,

00:25:18.501 --> 00:25:23.124
and the most loving thing
I could do is to let him go now.

00:25:23.125 --> 00:25:24.333
[ Inhales Sharply ]
Um...

00:25:24.334 --> 00:25:27.500
We just didn\'t want to
have to make the choice later.

00:25:27.501 --> 00:25:30.082
[ Crying ]
\'Cause I don\'t know
if I could.

00:25:30.083 --> 00:25:32.917
To say...
To not ventilate him.

00:25:32.918 --> 00:25:37.917
Or to not do something
to save him...
if I\'m seeing him then.

00:25:37.918 --> 00:25:42.791
So I just couldn\'t...
I don\'t think I could make
that choice then, so...

00:25:42.792 --> 00:25:46.708
I didn\'t want to
have him suffer any more
than he had to.

00:25:46.709 --> 00:25:52.750
And it was really important
that he had somewhat of
a dignified birth, you know,

00:25:52.751 --> 00:25:54.583
that it wasn\'t just...

00:25:54.584 --> 00:25:55.083
I understand.

00:25:55.084 --> 00:26:00.583
You know, the fact that
we have the option to spend
some time with him afterwards...

00:26:00.584 --> 00:26:01.833
was really important.

00:26:01.834 --> 00:26:04.583
Yeah. And you will.
And you will.

00:26:04.584 --> 00:26:08.208
Oh, that\'s part of the grieving
process, and you need that.
Yeah.

00:26:08.209 --> 00:26:11.583
Yeah, I\'m so sorry.
I\'m so sorry.

00:26:11.584 --> 00:26:14.458
Thank you.
Yeah. Okay.

00:26:14.459 --> 00:26:16.625
I\'m good.
You\'re good?

00:26:16.626 --> 00:26:18.750
You\'re good,
but you\'re not good. Yeah.

00:26:18.751 --> 00:26:21.709
I don\'t wanna say good-bye.

00:26:30.459 --> 00:26:35.167
I hear such hugely sad things...

00:26:38.667 --> 00:26:42.417
that it just brings tears
to my eyes.

00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:47.249
And sometimesnthe fetal
indications patients,

00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:50.584
often they want tonsee and hold their baby.

00:26:53.417 --> 00:26:57.124
And in a viewing, where
somebody\'snholding their baby...

00:26:57.125 --> 00:26:59.791
that had something horriblenwrong with it,

00:26:59.792 --> 00:27:04.917
and they just... they decided to
terminatenthe pregnancy because...

00:27:04.918 --> 00:27:08.416
they couldn\'t bear the ideanof
putting their baby through...

00:27:08.417 --> 00:27:10.166
a lifetime
of pain and suffering,

00:27:10.167 --> 00:27:14.875
and then the only time
they get to say hello
to their baby,

00:27:14.876 --> 00:27:17.082
they have to be
saying good-bye to it too.

00:27:17.083 --> 00:27:20.416
And you could just see,
it rips them apart.

00:27:20.417 --> 00:27:25.249
And it\'s hard to sitand watch
somebody elsenbe horribly sad...

00:27:25.250 --> 00:27:28.584
without being sad oneself.

00:27:29.584 --> 00:27:33.918
That\'s one thingthat makes
this worknso trying.

00:28:26.125 --> 00:28:31.458
[ Carhart ] Both of our childrenrode horses
in New Jersey, when I was in medical school,

00:28:31.459 --> 00:28:32.209
and it was their hobby.

00:28:32.210 --> 00:28:36.625
So when we were movingout here, we had
promised \'emnthey could have horses.

00:28:36.626 --> 00:28:39.249
Two horses.
Two... One each.
Yeah.

00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:40.374
One each.
[ Chuckles ]

00:28:40.375 --> 00:28:44.500
[ Carhart ] So it justsort of snowballed,
eventuallynended up as a business.

00:28:44.501 --> 00:28:47.959
Boarding for 40 horses.

00:28:48.959 --> 00:28:50.917
And at that time, I was
a general surgeon...

00:28:50.918 --> 00:28:54.082
and hada general surgery
practicenon the other end of town.

00:28:54.083 --> 00:29:00.082
And my friend wasthe nursing director of
one ofnthe abortion clinics in Omaha.

00:29:00.083 --> 00:29:01.000
I watched a couple procedures,

00:29:01.001 --> 00:29:02.917
but the technical partwasn\'t
really whatnl was interested in.

00:29:02.918 --> 00:29:06.791
It was just talkingto the women, their
decisions and their discussions.

00:29:06.792 --> 00:29:11.709
And so I started working
for them in April of \'88.

00:29:13.918 --> 00:29:15.249
And the fire happened in \'91.

00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:18.875
[ Sirens Wailing ]
[ Fire Engine Horns Blowing ]

00:29:18.876 --> 00:29:21.417
[ Horses Whinnying ]

00:29:23.876 --> 00:29:29.500
The horses were just all deadwhere they
were in the stalls, just on the ground,

00:29:29.501 --> 00:29:30.999
and burnt.

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:34.792
And the bar and everything was down.
Everything was gone.

00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:39.791
There were four horsesnthat
survived and 21 that died.

00:29:39.792 --> 00:29:42.584
[ Blusters ]

00:29:43.918 --> 00:29:47.500
My daughter was... nlt
was her 21st birthday.

00:29:47.501 --> 00:29:50.124
I got the call, as I said, about 3:00.

00:29:50.125 --> 00:29:51.917
The police said, \"Do you known
where your daughter is?\"

00:29:51.918 --> 00:29:56.209
And I said, \"I don\'t know,
but I\'ll try to find her.\"

00:29:57.918 --> 00:29:59.082
[ Barking ]

00:29:59.083 --> 00:30:04.250
I finally got ahold of her.
She was safe, at the clinic.

00:30:04.959 --> 00:30:06.041
[ Mary ] That was the scary thing.

00:30:06.042 --> 00:30:11.083
I said to myself thatif Janine was
okay, I wouldn\'t be upset by the fire.

00:30:11.626 --> 00:30:12.875
Yeah.

00:30:12.876 --> 00:30:18.918
So...
And I wasn\'t
for a long time, you know.

00:30:20.375 --> 00:30:23.249
[ Carhart ]The next day, we got
the letternfrom the protestors...

00:30:23.250 --> 00:30:29.209
justifying the killingof horses,
you know, since I killed children.

00:30:29.542 --> 00:30:33.541
You don\'t give into terroristsnbecause
it only gets worse.

00:30:33.542 --> 00:30:36.082
That\'s what really... nlt made me decide...

00:30:36.083 --> 00:30:40.374
I just said,\"Well, if they want
men to quit, then... I will.

00:30:40.375 --> 00:30:42.626
I\'ll quit everything else.\"

00:30:43.751 --> 00:30:46.291
So that\'s when I startednworking
for Dr. Tiller.

00:30:46.292 --> 00:30:52.375
And that\'s wherel was able to
learnnthird-trimester abortions.

00:30:56.042 --> 00:30:58.333
That was back in 1997.

00:30:58.334 --> 00:31:01.625
And the Republican Partynsaid
I was an abomination...

00:31:01.626 --> 00:31:03.583
and should be drivennfrom the state.

00:31:03.584 --> 00:31:07.250
So that\'s where I amnwith
the State of Nebraska.

00:31:15.709 --> 00:31:19.542
[ Robinson ]
Those are just beautiful.

00:31:21.083 --> 00:31:23.751
The card is darling.

00:31:26.042 --> 00:31:28.750
That\'s beautiful.

00:31:28.751 --> 00:31:31.667
That\'s really beautiful.

00:31:32.918 --> 00:31:34.875
I know that every day here
isn\'t very easy,

00:31:34.876 --> 00:31:38.999
but days like that,
like, you really gave us
a really great gift.

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.625
Well, thank you.
And it felt
very precious to us.

00:31:42.626 --> 00:31:43.917
Oh.
So, thank you.

00:31:43.918 --> 00:31:46.708
It was...
It was precious to me too.

00:31:46.709 --> 00:31:50.541
And it was clear
that it was precious
and wonderful.

00:31:50.542 --> 00:31:52.958
And everybody who is here
was so loving.

00:31:52.959 --> 00:31:56.500
Like, I mean,
I\'ve never met more caring
and loving people.

00:31:56.501 --> 00:32:02.082
I sit out here and listen
to these people who shout
at you from the outside.

00:32:02.083 --> 00:32:08.292
And I think,
\"The exact opposite\'s happening
in the inside of the building.\"

00:32:08.459 --> 00:32:09.750
So nice of you to say.

00:32:09.751 --> 00:32:13.124
It\'s just been
such a precious experience.

00:32:13.125 --> 00:32:16.334
Yeah.
Any regrets?

00:32:16.584 --> 00:32:19.124
No.
It was...

00:32:19.125 --> 00:32:23.291
I was very glad that Hudson...
He was very beautiful...

00:32:23.292 --> 00:32:26.791
and you could tell
by feeling that there was
something wrong.

00:32:26.792 --> 00:32:29.291
He was really...
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:29.292 --> 00:32:31.583
He was really sick.
Yeah.

00:32:31.584 --> 00:32:34.416
So, we knew that either way...

00:32:34.417 --> 00:32:38.541
it would have been
a tragic story for him.

00:32:38.542 --> 00:32:40.583
Yeah. Yeah.
[ Sniffles ]

00:32:40.584 --> 00:32:42.374
All right.
Okay.

00:32:42.375 --> 00:32:45.751
Well.
One more hug.
Okay.

00:32:45.959 --> 00:32:49.542
Thanks. Thank you.
Thank you so much
for everything.

00:32:51.792 --> 00:32:53.834
[ Exhales ]

00:32:56.125 --> 00:32:57.417
Yup.

00:32:59.626 --> 00:33:00.292
Okay.

00:33:00.293 --> 00:33:04.458
I just thought the other day,
\"I can\'t retire. My God.\"

00:33:04.459 --> 00:33:07.249
[ Chuckles ]
There aren\'t enough of us.

00:33:07.250 --> 00:33:11.501
I can\'t retire.
[ Chuckles ]

00:33:13.709 --> 00:33:15.626
Okeydoke.

00:33:21.501 --> 00:33:27.166
What they\'ve had in the paper
about abortion this last month,

00:33:27.167 --> 00:33:29.041
I think,
stirs up people much more...

00:33:29.042 --> 00:33:34.625
They don\'t give it much thought
until they start putting
a lot of things in the paper.

00:33:34.626 --> 00:33:35.209
Right.

00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:38.500
How many times
have you received
threatening phone calls...

00:33:38.501 --> 00:33:40.041
because of what I do?
Oh, I don\'t know.

00:33:40.042 --> 00:33:43.666
- How many times, do you think?
- I don\'t know, Warren.

00:33:43.667 --> 00:33:47.666
People call,
and I just hang up.
I just... You know, I can\'t...

00:33:47.667 --> 00:33:48.626
But they call you.
Yeah.

00:33:48.627 --> 00:33:53.416
- What do your friends say?
- You know, I didn\'t pay that
much attention to it, Warren.

00:33:53.417 --> 00:33:58.500
I mean, you know,
I thought you were doing
what you felt you needed to do.

00:33:58.501 --> 00:34:01.166
I mean...
[ Sighs ]

00:34:01.167 --> 00:34:03.750
I would hope that
one of these days that...

00:34:03.751 --> 00:34:08.041
you\'d feel you could
enjoy the rest of your life.

00:34:08.042 --> 00:34:08.792
Yep.

00:34:08.793 --> 00:34:10.291
I would like for you
to just be able to say,

00:34:10.292 --> 00:34:15.583
\"Okay, somebody else
is gonna do this.
I\'m gonna go do my thing now.\"

00:34:15.584 --> 00:34:17.124
Yup.
That\'s what I would like.

00:34:17.125 --> 00:34:20.708
Yeah. Good.
If it were possible,
that\'s what I would do.

00:34:20.709 --> 00:34:23.083
[ Chuckles ]

00:34:23.501 --> 00:34:24.250
I understand.

00:34:24.251 --> 00:34:27.750
But getting somebody else
who wants to come do this
is very difficult.

00:34:27.751 --> 00:34:29.541
Pretty close to impossible.

00:34:29.542 --> 00:34:32.124
Well...
Mmm.

00:34:32.125 --> 00:34:33.541
Okay.

00:34:33.542 --> 00:34:36.082
Okay, I\'ll see ya.
Okay?
Take care.

00:34:36.083 --> 00:34:40.166
Okay. And no running
in the halls, okay?
I\'ll try to behave myself.

00:34:40.167 --> 00:34:42.166
Okay. All right.
All right.
Take care.

00:34:42.167 --> 00:34:45.083
I\'ll see ya now.
All righty.
Bye-bye.

00:34:55.125 --> 00:34:58.249
Makin\' a deal here
so I get a season pass
next year,

00:34:58.250 --> 00:35:00.374
and apparently
I can use it today
or something.

00:35:00.375 --> 00:35:01.458
Yeah,
and you\'re over 70.
Yeah.

00:35:01.459 --> 00:35:04.082
All right.
If you wanna have a seat,
we\'ll get your picture.

00:35:04.083 --> 00:35:06.166
- Mug shot while we\'re at it.
- Mug shot.

00:35:06.167 --> 00:35:07.917
- [ Hern ]
Okay. Here, ready?
- All right, ready?

00:35:07.918 --> 00:35:11.291
All right.
Smile.
One, two, three.

00:35:11.292 --> 00:35:14.417
All right.
Okay.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.791
The work I\'ve done, uh, has
beennvery, very fulfilling for me.

00:35:20.792 --> 00:35:27.918
But the antiabortion attackshave had a
terrible effectnon my personal life.

00:35:29.167 --> 00:35:31.333
I set up the clinic in 1973,

00:35:31.334 --> 00:35:35.249
and I immediatelystarted getting death
threatsnin the middle of the night.

00:35:35.250 --> 00:35:38.249
And I started sleepingnwith
a rifle by my bed,

00:35:38.250 --> 00:35:43.584
because I believed thatthey were
ready to carry outntheir threats.

00:35:43.709 --> 00:35:47.917
An example was, in the
first week ofnMarch, 1988,

00:35:47.918 --> 00:35:51.917
I got five shots fired throughnthe
front windows of my office.

00:35:51.918 --> 00:35:56.166
And so, you know, when I walk
out the door of my office,

00:35:56.167 --> 00:35:57.917
I expect to be assassinated.

00:35:57.918 --> 00:36:01.041
I don\'t know which onenis carrying a gun.

00:36:01.042 --> 00:36:04.166
My first marriage ended in 1988,

00:36:04.167 --> 00:36:07.875
and, um, I was desperately
unhappy about that.

00:36:07.876 --> 00:36:10.459
Uh, I didn\'t want it to end.

00:36:10.667 --> 00:36:14.374
And the constant attacks fromnthe
antiabortion fanatics...

00:36:14.375 --> 00:36:17.250
were part of that.

00:36:20.250 --> 00:36:24.250
And, uh, many, many times,
I\'ve felt so alone.

00:36:24.667 --> 00:36:27.541
And, like, what is the point of this?
NYou know?

00:36:27.542 --> 00:36:30.626
Why... How can I go on?

00:36:34.417 --> 00:36:37.501
[ Device Beeps ]

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:39.999
Hey, Shelley, this is Susan.

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.166
First of all, happy birthday.
I completely forgot
that it was your birthday.

00:36:44.167 --> 00:36:49.082
And then, in horror,
I realized that it\'s also
Dr. Tiller\'s birthday.

00:36:49.083 --> 00:36:54.375
So, when you get home,
at your convenience,
give me a buzz, okay? Bye.

00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:03.458
The house that I live in
is up high.

00:37:03.459 --> 00:37:09.918
And there was one time
that a federal marshal came
and paid me a visit.

00:37:10.042 --> 00:37:11.458
And he said, n\"Well, this is very good.

00:37:11.459 --> 00:37:14.625
This would be a hard shot
even with a sniper rifle.\"
[ Chuckles ]

00:37:14.626 --> 00:37:17.375
I thought,
\"Oh, good. I\'m glad.\"

00:37:19.334 --> 00:37:22.500
In my residency, I did OB/GYN...

00:37:22.501 --> 00:37:24.541
and I was atna Catholic hospital,

00:37:24.542 --> 00:37:26.917
so I never learnednto do abortions.

00:37:26.918 --> 00:37:28.958
It never came up.

00:37:28.959 --> 00:37:31.958
And then, what reallyngot me interested...

00:37:31.959 --> 00:37:35.291
was when
they started shooting doctors.

00:37:35.292 --> 00:37:39.959
You know, they shot
the two docs in Pensacola.

00:37:40.375 --> 00:37:42.999
And I thought, \"Oh, my God.\"
You know?

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.082
Everybody\'s gonna get
scarednout of doing it.

00:37:46.083 --> 00:37:48.249
And then who\'s gonna do it?

00:37:48.250 --> 00:37:50.666
Yeah, there\'s two
reactionsnto being bullied.

00:37:50.667 --> 00:37:56.374
One is to sort of
go pull your head in and try
to get away from the bully,

00:37:56.375 --> 00:38:00.333
and the other is to say,
\"Oh, yeah?\"

00:38:00.334 --> 00:38:03.374
[ Chuckles ]
You know?
That\'s how I feel.

00:38:03.375 --> 00:38:05.751
Oh, yeah?

00:38:08.083 --> 00:38:13.041
My husband is amazing. He\'s
very, very proudnof what I do.

00:38:13.042 --> 00:38:16.999
And I don\'t thinknhe\'s
really afraid either.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:20.833
He thinks about...

00:38:20.834 --> 00:38:21.626
security,

00:38:21.627 --> 00:38:27.541
but not in an obsessive way that
effects his life badly at all.

00:38:27.542 --> 00:38:34.249
But, um, my being away from
homenis quite trying for him.

00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:36.833
[ Water Running ]

00:38:36.834 --> 00:38:42.416
[ Sella ]It is hard to be
travelingnall the time.

00:38:42.417 --> 00:38:44.333
My wife totally supports me.

00:38:44.334 --> 00:38:49.876
And I could notdo this work without her.
Absolutely not.

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.833
We met, actually,
in midwifery circles.

00:38:52.834 --> 00:38:56.124
And I think becausenshe
was a midwife herself,

00:38:56.125 --> 00:38:59.918
I think she also
reallynappreciates this work.

00:39:00.292 --> 00:39:06.750
But whenever I leave my home, I have
a tremendous amountnof sadness...

00:39:06.751 --> 00:39:09.250
of leaving.

00:39:09.918 --> 00:39:13.833
And then Istart seeing patients,
and they\'re just amazing.

00:39:13.834 --> 00:39:17.082
So I go through that cycle
endlessly.

00:39:17.083 --> 00:39:20.417
I\'ve been going through that
for years now.

00:39:20.751 --> 00:39:23.125
That\'s just how my life is.

00:39:33.417 --> 00:39:37.082
[ Woman ]They\'re two of the
strictestnabortion laws in U.S. history.

00:39:37.083 --> 00:39:38.750
[ Man ] Nebraska governor Dave Heineman...

00:39:38.751 --> 00:39:40.541
signs into lawntwo new abortion measures.

00:39:40.542 --> 00:39:46.625
Now, on the booksnis a law saying that
doctors will be charged with a felony...

00:39:46.626 --> 00:39:49.041
if they perform abortionsnafter 20 weeks,

00:39:49.042 --> 00:39:53.583
because at that pointthere is substantial
evidencenthat an unborn child...

00:39:53.584 --> 00:39:56.917
has the physical structuresnnecessary
to experience pain.\"

00:39:56.918 --> 00:40:02.291
But pro-choice groupspoint to the American
College ofnObstetricians and Gynecologists,

00:40:02.292 --> 00:40:05.917
which says there\'s no
legitimatenscientific information...

00:40:05.918 --> 00:40:09.082
that supports the statementnthat
a fetus experiences pain.

00:40:09.083 --> 00:40:13.333
The Nebraska governorhas put
himself squarelynin the middle...

00:40:13.334 --> 00:40:15.625
of a probable Supreme Courtncontroversy.

00:40:15.626 --> 00:40:18.918
- [ Phone Beeping ]
- [ Chattering, Indistinct ]

00:40:20.334 --> 00:40:22.375
Where are you from?

00:40:22.834 --> 00:40:24.583
How far along in the pregnancy
are you?

00:40:24.584 --> 00:40:27.333
Oh, then there are probably
only two choices.

00:40:27.334 --> 00:40:30.750
Is there...
Is there a fetal anomaly
or, um...

00:40:30.751 --> 00:40:33.416
[ Carhart ]Since the Fetal
Pain Actntook effect,

00:40:33.417 --> 00:40:37.625
we\'re sending a lot of people
to Dr. Hern and Dr. Sella...

00:40:37.626 --> 00:40:41.625
and Dr., um, Robinson now...

00:40:41.626 --> 00:40:44.958
that we would have done
a month or two ago.

00:40:44.959 --> 00:40:48.249
This one I gave Albuquerque
and Warren.
Yeah.

00:40:48.250 --> 00:40:50.249
I said, \"Is there a problem
with the fetus?\"

00:40:50.250 --> 00:40:53.458
\"Uh, I just found out
I was pregnant.\"
And she was like...

00:40:53.459 --> 00:40:55.124
[ Carhart ]Yeah, the sad
partnis that some women...

00:40:55.125 --> 00:40:58.999
will come up withthe extra money to
travel tonone of the other clinics,

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.416
and then again, there\'ll be
some thatncan afford to,

00:41:01.417 --> 00:41:05.416
but they end up losingeverything
they havenin order to do it.

00:41:05.417 --> 00:41:10.751
And some women will havea child
that they knownthey can\'t have...

00:41:10.918 --> 00:41:12.500
because they don\'tnhave the option.

00:41:12.501 --> 00:41:18.626
And some women
may get desperate
and do things on their own.

00:41:49.542 --> 00:41:52.250
[ Sighs ]

00:42:06.667 --> 00:42:10.958
[ Voice On Phone, Indistinct ]
[ Woman ]
Okay, and when was that taken?

00:42:10.959 --> 00:42:14.416
Okay, and is there
a femur length also,
or an F.L. number?

00:42:14.417 --> 00:42:17.625
Okay. Um,
so basically, based on that,

00:42:17.626 --> 00:42:19.416
if she came into the office
next Tuesday,

00:42:19.417 --> 00:42:22.124
the fee for the procedure
could be as much as $10,000,

00:42:22.125 --> 00:42:25.750
and it would most likely be
a four-day outpatient procedure.

00:42:25.751 --> 00:42:27.958
[ Voice On Phone, Indistinct ]

00:42:27.959 --> 00:42:32.250
Okay. All right. No problem.
Okay. Bye-bye.

00:42:33.959 --> 00:42:35.666
[ Hern ]
So, how you feeling?

00:42:35.667 --> 00:42:38.917
Um, a little, you know, down.

00:42:38.918 --> 00:42:40.583
Are you?
Yeah.

00:42:40.584 --> 00:42:43.041
\'Cause, I mean, I\'m...

00:42:43.042 --> 00:42:47.249
I never thought
this was gonna
happen to me.

00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:49.124
And I went to one doctor,

00:42:49.125 --> 00:42:55.750
and they told me
that the baby had
the Mowat-Wilson syndrome.

00:42:55.751 --> 00:42:56.250
Yeah.

00:42:56.251 --> 00:43:01.666
And these babies
were moderate to severe
mental retardation.

00:43:01.667 --> 00:43:04.625
That\'s pretty sad news.
Yeah.

00:43:04.626 --> 00:43:10.082
And, um, if they would talk,
they would talk 25 words
or less.

00:43:10.083 --> 00:43:12.541
How far along were you
at that point?

00:43:12.542 --> 00:43:13.999
Five months
and, like, two weeks.

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:19.166
Wow. They just passed a law
in Nebraska to keep doctors
from doing this there.

00:43:19.167 --> 00:43:21.208
Yeah.
That\'s why I couldn\'t
have it done there.

00:43:21.209 --> 00:43:25.917
\'Cause they can\'t do it
20 weeks and beyond.
Yeah. Right.

00:43:25.918 --> 00:43:27.833
So...
And it is hurtful.

00:43:27.834 --> 00:43:31.416
\'Cause it was
a planned pregnancy,
and I did want it.

00:43:31.417 --> 00:43:33.459
Right.
But...

00:43:33.584 --> 00:43:40.249
I mean...
I would rather her
not suffer.

00:43:40.250 --> 00:43:42.375
Right.
So...

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.750
Well, my job is to help you
get through this safely...

00:43:46.751 --> 00:43:49.249
so you can go on
and live your life...

00:43:49.250 --> 00:43:54.041
and maybe have other
pregnancies that are healthy
in the future.

00:43:54.042 --> 00:43:56.416
That\'s my idea.

00:43:56.417 --> 00:43:57.458
Yeah.
Okay?

00:43:57.459 --> 00:44:00.166
Yeah. I\'ll take care
of myself.
All right.

00:44:00.167 --> 00:44:01.500
Okay.

00:44:01.501 --> 00:44:04.458
All right, all right.
Oh.

00:44:04.459 --> 00:44:07.292
Thank you.
Mmm.

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.541
You did fine.

00:44:12.542 --> 00:44:14.501
[ Sniffles ]

00:44:22.209 --> 00:44:24.082
[ Sniffles, Sobs ]
Thanks.

00:44:24.083 --> 00:44:26.249
You can go ahead and cry.

00:44:26.250 --> 00:44:28.751
[ Crying Quietly ]

00:44:45.417 --> 00:44:46.417
Thank you.
Okay?

00:44:46.418 --> 00:44:49.750
Why don\'t I just give you
this whole box of Kleenex?
[ Laughs ]

00:44:49.751 --> 00:44:52.583
You\'re gonna need it.
It\'s a long way
back to Nebraska.

00:44:52.584 --> 00:44:55.459
[ Girl ]
Yeah. n[ Hern ] Yeah? Huh?

00:45:02.417 --> 00:45:04.333
Can we eat now?

00:45:04.334 --> 00:45:07.250
[ Laughing ]
Is it lunchtime?

00:45:11.083 --> 00:45:13.208
So, when we\'re
finished here, Susan,

00:45:13.209 --> 00:45:18.208
I need to talk to you about
a woman that called from France.

00:45:18.209 --> 00:45:19.083
Oh.

00:45:19.084 --> 00:45:21.917
I feel quite certain
we are not able to see her,

00:45:21.918 --> 00:45:25.291
but I promised her
that I would talk
with you about it.

00:45:25.292 --> 00:45:28.124
How many weeks?
Many.
Mm-hmm.

00:45:28.125 --> 00:45:29.666
Fetal anomaly?
No.

00:45:29.667 --> 00:45:32.333
Was it a compell...
Very compelling...

00:45:32.334 --> 00:45:34.249
I mean, you know.

00:45:34.250 --> 00:45:36.583
I was...
No.

00:45:36.584 --> 00:45:37.958
N-N-Not...

00:45:37.959 --> 00:45:38.792
Only...
Not really.

00:45:38.793 --> 00:45:43.500
Only in that she had
already had one
negative pregnancy test,

00:45:43.501 --> 00:45:46.124
um, because she was
having, I guess,

00:45:46.125 --> 00:45:47.917
light periods or something.

00:45:47.918 --> 00:45:49.750
But then, you know, decided,

00:45:49.751 --> 00:45:53.583
\"Well, it\'s negative,
so I don\'t know why
I\'m having light periods.\"

00:45:53.584 --> 00:45:57.625
Went to the Ukraine,
was there for three months
in the middle of nowhere...

00:45:57.626 --> 00:45:59.500
and really didn\'t
think about it...

00:45:59.501 --> 00:46:02.750
except that she started
feeling, you know...

00:46:02.751 --> 00:46:03.999
Bloated.
[ Chuckles ]
Mm-hmm.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.041
Oh, God. Poor woman.
And pain
and things like that.

00:46:07.042 --> 00:46:08.583
Finally, when she
got back to France,

00:46:08.584 --> 00:46:14.083
then she was able
to determine that
she was indeed pregnant.

00:46:17.083 --> 00:46:18.917
[ Robinson ] When I worked in Kansas,

00:46:18.918 --> 00:46:24.208
Kansas law requiredthat the
patientnpresent a story...

00:46:24.209 --> 00:46:25.917
that compelled you, the physician,

00:46:25.918 --> 00:46:30.416
to believe that this pregnancy
threatened her life,

00:46:30.417 --> 00:46:33.958
nor her emotional health,

00:46:33.959 --> 00:46:36.708
mental health, family health,

00:46:36.709 --> 00:46:38.416
safety or well-being.

00:46:38.417 --> 00:46:42.791
And those patients
were carefully screened
on the phone.

00:46:42.792 --> 00:46:44.750
And thennwhen they got to Kansas,

00:46:44.751 --> 00:46:48.833
they had to present this
storynto a second doctor...

00:46:48.834 --> 00:46:51.917
who was not affiliatednwith the clinic.

00:46:51.918 --> 00:46:55.583
And that\'s not truenin New Mexico.

00:46:55.584 --> 00:46:58.625
The law is differentnin New Mexico.

00:46:58.626 --> 00:47:01.374
So suddenly I found myself
being faced with...

00:47:01.375 --> 00:47:07.209
patients who didn\'t have
anywhere near the compelling
stories that they had in Kansas.

00:47:07.542 --> 00:47:12.751
And yeah, it\'s a struggle
for me to figure out...

00:47:13.125 --> 00:47:17.124
Is it okay for me to say,
\"No, that\'s not
a good enough story.

00:47:17.125 --> 00:47:20.501
I\'m not doing
an abortion for you\"?

00:47:21.292 --> 00:47:23.666
And then this is,
um, Michelle...

00:47:23.667 --> 00:47:27.082
[ Robinson ]Because, you know,
you\'renreally on your own out here,

00:47:27.083 --> 00:47:32.292
trying to figure out
what\'s the right thing to do.

00:47:32.584 --> 00:47:35.584
What\'s really helping people?

00:47:36.375 --> 00:47:38.333
Holy crow.
Yeah, I know.

00:47:38.334 --> 00:47:40.750
I\'m awfully sorry.
I know.

00:47:40.751 --> 00:47:42.583
I-I would love
to help her.

00:47:42.584 --> 00:47:45.082
I would love
to help her.
Mm-hmm.

00:47:45.083 --> 00:47:47.791
Because in a way
we\'re sort of a court
of last resort here.

00:47:47.792 --> 00:47:53.416
I mean, if we won\'t
help somebody, they\'re not
gonna get an abortion.

00:47:53.417 --> 00:47:54.708
Really.

00:47:54.709 --> 00:47:57.416
Oh, God, I just hate it, but...

00:47:57.417 --> 00:48:00.416
I would... I...
She\'s just
too far along.

00:48:00.417 --> 00:48:03.416
I can\'t help her.
I knew
she would be.

00:48:03.417 --> 00:48:05.374
But I, you know...

00:48:05.375 --> 00:48:08.541
I told her that I would,
um, talk with you,

00:48:08.542 --> 00:48:11.209
and so I... did.

00:48:21.125 --> 00:48:24.000
[ Sue ]
Hi. Is this Michelle?

00:48:24.918 --> 00:48:27.583
Michelle, I talked
with Dr. Robinson,

00:48:27.584 --> 00:48:29.082
and I\'m very sorry,

00:48:29.083 --> 00:48:31.750
but she\'s not able
to do the procedure...

00:48:31.751 --> 00:48:34.124
here for you in our clinic.

00:48:34.125 --> 00:48:34.751
Okay?

00:48:34.752 --> 00:48:38.833
Um, she feels that
it is just too far
in the pregnancy...

00:48:38.834 --> 00:48:43.249
for us, you know,
to do this procedure
here in this...

00:48:43.250 --> 00:48:45.250
In our office.

00:48:47.083 --> 00:48:50.875
It\'s not possible
to talk with her directly,
unfortunately.

00:48:50.876 --> 00:48:54.166
She is in surgery
this afternoon,

00:48:54.167 --> 00:48:55.833
um, with other patients,

00:48:55.834 --> 00:48:57.958
so she is not available.

00:48:57.959 --> 00:49:00.708
And we did talk,
she and I, for s...

00:49:00.709 --> 00:49:03.333
For a little while about this,

00:49:03.334 --> 00:49:05.082
and she\'s...
She\'s very clear...

00:49:05.083 --> 00:49:09.791
that she\'s not able
to do this procedure
here for you, Michelle.

00:49:09.792 --> 00:49:12.584
And I am very sorry.

00:49:21.792 --> 00:49:25.458
Other than Dr. Hern
in Colorado,

00:49:25.459 --> 00:49:30.708
I\'m not sure, um,
that there\'s anywhere else...

00:49:30.709 --> 00:49:32.542
Hmm?

00:49:35.167 --> 00:49:38.918
Well, our clinic
will go to 28 weeks.

00:49:39.042 --> 00:49:41.082
And then after that
it\'s strictly...

00:49:41.083 --> 00:49:45.250
case by case
and up to the doctor.

00:49:45.709 --> 00:49:48.041
Um, usually at this point...

00:49:48.042 --> 00:49:50.500
we\'re only able to see women...

00:49:50.501 --> 00:49:54.291
if there is
a very, you know,
severe fetal anomaly...

00:49:54.292 --> 00:49:57.374
or, um, something, you know,

00:49:57.375 --> 00:50:01.625
that they\'re referred to us
by their doctor for.

00:50:01.626 --> 00:50:03.249
Um...

00:50:03.250 --> 00:50:05.249
So I think that it\'s...

00:50:05.250 --> 00:50:07.042
You know, perhaps
looking at adoption...

00:50:09.042 --> 00:50:12.999
as the... as...
as the alternative,
at this point,

00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:17.042
is what you need to
perhaps make a plan for.

00:50:17.626 --> 00:50:19.542
Okay?

00:50:20.334 --> 00:50:22.249
I\'m very sorry.

00:50:22.250 --> 00:50:26.250
And...
I wish you the best.

00:50:26.959 --> 00:50:30.459
Okay. All right.
Bye.

00:50:32.542 --> 00:50:34.541
[ Sighs ]

00:50:34.542 --> 00:50:35.292
Mmm.

00:50:35.293 --> 00:50:39.083
[ Robinson ]
Those are hard.
Yeah, they\'re hard.

00:50:40.375 --> 00:50:42.250
[ Sighs ]

00:50:52.959 --> 00:50:56.958
[ Robinson ]
So, um, do you have a patient
you want to tell me about?

00:50:56.959 --> 00:50:59.333
Yeah.
She\'s 19 years old.

00:50:59.334 --> 00:51:01.958
She has
a three-year-old son.

00:51:01.959 --> 00:51:04.291
She\'s in school
full-time at college.

00:51:04.292 --> 00:51:08.750
She says there\'s just
no way we can afford
day care for two kids.

00:51:08.751 --> 00:51:10.791
No way.

00:51:10.792 --> 00:51:13.416
I asked her,

00:51:13.417 --> 00:51:14.999
you know...
[ Sighs ]

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:16.082
had she thought about adoption?

00:51:16.083 --> 00:51:20.208
She said that she feels
that if she has to continue
the pregnancy and had this baby,

00:51:20.209 --> 00:51:23.750
she\'s gonna keep it,
and they\'ll just have to
figure out a way to do it.

00:51:23.751 --> 00:51:26.124
She\'s certain
she\'ll have to quit school.

00:51:26.125 --> 00:51:28.249
Of course, now she\'s way far.

00:51:28.250 --> 00:51:31.792
She\'s 28 weeks now.
Mm-hmm.

00:51:32.167 --> 00:51:34.626
Um, so what do you think?

00:51:46.250 --> 00:51:49.292
Now we\'re in Omaha.

00:51:49.834 --> 00:51:54.918
When we get on
the other side of this lake,
we\'re in Council Bluffs.

00:51:55.125 --> 00:51:55.751
♪♪ [ Theme ]

00:51:55.752 --> 00:51:59.333
[ Woman ] Tonightwe\'re breaking a story
about tonmake national headlines.

00:51:59.334 --> 00:52:02.082
Dr. Carhartcalls Nebraska
lawsnunconstitutional.

00:52:02.083 --> 00:52:05.708
[ Man ] So in the meantime, he says
it\'s time to expandnto other states...

00:52:05.709 --> 00:52:07.917
with less restrictive laws, including Iowa.

00:52:07.918 --> 00:52:13.417
Carhart plans to open
a new clinic in
Council Bluffs by January.

00:52:21.334 --> 00:52:23.584
[ Car Door Opens, Closes ]

00:52:28.584 --> 00:52:31.500
[ Carhart ]As far as the
lawsnabout abortion,

00:52:31.501 --> 00:52:33.249
Iowa is a lot betternthan Nebraska.

00:52:33.250 --> 00:52:38.041
Or at least their politicians
are more willing to stand up
for what they believe in.

00:52:38.042 --> 00:52:41.458
We could put drapes on it.
It would be fine
for a waiting area.

00:52:41.459 --> 00:52:45.876
But that one place,
every room had
big windows in it.

00:52:46.083 --> 00:52:49.082
But this is
where they said
that we could...

00:52:49.083 --> 00:52:50.750
bring the fence down here.

00:52:50.751 --> 00:52:52.833
And then people
could come out
this door...

00:52:52.834 --> 00:52:55.583
and you wouldn\'t
have to ever worry about
who was coming in and out.

00:52:55.584 --> 00:52:57.917
Just bring it out to...
There\'d be no gate
out here.

00:52:57.918 --> 00:53:00.917
We\'ll put the fence here...
Or no unlocked gate
out here.

00:53:00.918 --> 00:53:02.124
You\'d put
a six-foot fence
there.

00:53:02.125 --> 00:53:06.918
Then in order for them
to see over that, they\'d have
to get way up in the air.

00:53:07.167 --> 00:53:09.208
And just make
a little place
where...

00:53:09.209 --> 00:53:11.541
[ Carhart ]
Well, no, I wouldn\'t
bring it out to there.

00:53:11.542 --> 00:53:14.708
[ Man ] Packed house tonightat the
Council Bluffsncity council meeting...

00:53:14.709 --> 00:53:18.625
as hundreds protesta planned
clinicnwhich would offer abortions.

00:53:18.626 --> 00:53:23.291
LeRoy Carhart
wants to move
to Council Bluffs, Iowa,

00:53:23.292 --> 00:53:24.791
to our city and our state,

00:53:24.792 --> 00:53:30.541
to do abortions on babies
that term... 20 weeks or later.

00:53:30.542 --> 00:53:35.333
We already have
an abortion facility
in Council Bluffs.

00:53:35.334 --> 00:53:37.917
So as a city, as a people,

00:53:37.918 --> 00:53:40.291
we\'ve already
seriously compromised,

00:53:40.292 --> 00:53:43.416
betrayed the fundamental
goodness of life.

00:53:43.417 --> 00:53:45.750
I brought my son
with me this evening.

00:53:45.751 --> 00:53:50.666
He was born
at 27 weeks gestation.

00:53:50.667 --> 00:53:53.291
I brought
a couple little things
to show you.

00:53:53.292 --> 00:53:56.416
His little diaper.
His first outfit.

00:53:56.417 --> 00:54:00.041
Late-term abortions
are even opposed by over 95%...

00:54:00.042 --> 00:54:03.458
Even by people
who are pro-abortion rights.

00:54:03.459 --> 00:54:05.625
This is where everybody
draws the line.

00:54:05.626 --> 00:54:07.917
[ Woman ]
I very much am concerned...

00:54:07.918 --> 00:54:13.249
about the economic impact
that this clinic
is gonna have on our city.

00:54:13.250 --> 00:54:16.166
We have struggled dramatically
with our image,

00:54:16.167 --> 00:54:20.500
and I know that
this is not a calling card
that we want to be known for.

00:54:20.501 --> 00:54:24.458
I know I personally have
been talking to landlords
behind the scenes.

00:54:24.459 --> 00:54:26.249
I know other
council members
have too.

00:54:26.250 --> 00:54:29.833
[ Man ]Tonight the city council
votednto put a deed restriction...

00:54:29.834 --> 00:54:30.834
on a property on Avenue G...

00:54:30.835 --> 00:54:35.917
that they believe Carhartmay have
been consideringnfor a clinic.

00:54:35.918 --> 00:54:38.583
[ Carhart ] I said that
on the television...

00:54:38.584 --> 00:54:40.791
the day that Dr. Tillernwas murdered...

00:54:40.792 --> 00:54:42.333
that we have been at war.

00:54:42.334 --> 00:54:45.374
We\'ve been at war
since Roe v. Wade was passed,

00:54:45.375 --> 00:54:48.291
exceptthere\'s only been one
sidenthat\'s been fighting this war.

00:54:48.292 --> 00:54:51.374
We\'ve been sitting back
and letting them
take over the government,

00:54:51.375 --> 00:54:55.249
take over the school boards
and the little
local governments...

00:54:55.250 --> 00:55:00.083
and then work their way
up to power into the state
and federal level.

00:55:00.209 --> 00:55:04.249
And I think I havethe ability
to getna new practice going,

00:55:04.250 --> 00:55:08.792
and I just think that it\'snsomething
that needs to be done.

00:55:14.417 --> 00:55:17.833
♪♪ [ Didgeridoo ]

00:55:17.834 --> 00:55:20.374
[ No Audible Dialogue ]

00:55:20.375 --> 00:55:23.417
♪♪ [ Continues ]

00:55:26.792 --> 00:55:29.751
[ People Chattering, Laughing ]

00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:34.541
I\'m talking to your wife
about me organizing...

00:55:34.542 --> 00:55:37.249
a little posse
that would watch over you.

00:55:37.250 --> 00:55:40.625
[ Hern ] You know what?
Being in Boulder
is the main thing.

00:55:40.626 --> 00:55:43.791
But if one of these guys
decides to show up and hurt me,

00:55:43.792 --> 00:55:46.374
there\'s not very much
anybody can do about it.

00:55:46.375 --> 00:55:49.416
I just try to, uh,
watch what I\'m doing...

00:55:49.417 --> 00:55:53.875
and make it
politically too expensive
to bother me.

00:55:53.876 --> 00:55:55.166
You know?
You\'re right.

00:55:55.167 --> 00:55:57.082
Yeah.
But I appreciate it
very much.

00:55:57.083 --> 00:56:00.082
Well, I say a prayer
for you every night.
Thank you very much.

00:56:00.083 --> 00:56:04.417
Don\'t use up all your
credibility on that.
[ Both Laughing ]

00:56:05.083 --> 00:56:05.709
All right.

00:56:05.710 --> 00:56:08.791
[ Hern ]A few years ago I had
beenninvited to speak...

00:56:08.792 --> 00:56:11.416
at a conference on abortion
in Barcelona.

00:56:11.417 --> 00:56:16.166
There was a gorgeous womansitting in the front
row, andnl decided I wanted to meet her.

00:56:16.167 --> 00:56:20.583
- [ All Chattering ]
- And we enjoyed
getting to know each other.

00:56:20.584 --> 00:56:23.750
And she had this little
boynwho\'s wonderful.

00:56:23.751 --> 00:56:30.291
And it was the first timethat I felt
that I couldnenjoy my personal life...

00:56:30.292 --> 00:56:33.249
to the extentnthat I had not.

00:56:33.250 --> 00:56:36.416
So eventually, she came
here, and we got married.

00:56:36.417 --> 00:56:38.208
Say... Say \"whiskey.\"
Whiskey!

00:56:38.209 --> 00:56:39.583
Whiskey!
Volcano!

00:56:39.584 --> 00:56:42.208
[ All Laughing ]
All right!

00:56:42.209 --> 00:56:43.750
One, two, three, four.

00:56:43.751 --> 00:56:46.082
Look it up here.
You\'ve left your...

00:56:46.083 --> 00:56:49.291
[ Hern ] The antiabortion attacks...

00:56:49.292 --> 00:56:50.917
have been frighteningnfor Fernando.

00:56:50.918 --> 00:56:52.416
He knew Dr. Tiller. He met him.

00:56:52.417 --> 00:56:56.999
Dr. Tiller was killed, and he\'s
worriednabout this happening to me.

00:56:57.000 --> 00:56:59.208
[ Fernando Speaking,
Indistinct ]

00:56:59.209 --> 00:57:04.249
So this is a profoundly
traumatic experience...

00:57:04.250 --> 00:57:06.416
for everybody in my family,

00:57:06.417 --> 00:57:09.416
um, starting with
Odalis and Fernando,

00:57:09.417 --> 00:57:14.082
and for my mother, you know,
who worries about my safety.

00:57:14.083 --> 00:57:15.708
[ Speaking, Indistinct ]

00:57:15.709 --> 00:57:19.416
[ Hern ]I\'ve faced these threats
beforenwhen I was single,

00:57:19.417 --> 00:57:22.583
but it\'s not the samenas having a family...

00:57:22.584 --> 00:57:24.750
that\'s around younall the time.

00:57:24.751 --> 00:57:27.417
All right.
Fifty feet.

00:57:27.584 --> 00:57:31.750
And, um, it\'s been hard
for me to feel, sometimes,

00:57:31.751 --> 00:57:35.292
that, uh...
That I can continue.

00:57:50.292 --> 00:57:53.750
So, Serena,
tell me, when did you
realize you were pregnant?

00:57:53.751 --> 00:57:56.583
[ Chuckles ]
All the way back
in October.

00:57:56.584 --> 00:57:58.958
Really?
What\'s been going on?

00:57:58.959 --> 00:58:01.249
Everything\'s
been going on.
Yeah?

00:58:01.250 --> 00:58:03.416
Like one thing after another.

00:58:03.417 --> 00:58:05.082
I just kept pushing it back.

00:58:05.083 --> 00:58:08.166
Okay, well, I\'m gonna
get this money this time.
Mm-hmm.

00:58:08.167 --> 00:58:11.374
And then, you know,
as it goes on,
the fees go up.

00:58:11.375 --> 00:58:13.833
Right, so...
So it\'s
more money.

00:58:13.834 --> 00:58:14.250
Yeah.

00:58:14.251 --> 00:58:18.791
So finally I said, okay,
when I get my taxes
I could go.

00:58:18.792 --> 00:58:21.166
Mm-hmm.
Got my taxes
and went.

00:58:21.167 --> 00:58:22.750
And I was too far.
Oh.

00:58:22.751 --> 00:58:25.333
Must be a bit of a relief
just to get here, huh?

00:58:25.334 --> 00:58:28.541
Yeah, because I was
actually supposed to come
maybe three weeks ago.

00:58:28.542 --> 00:58:32.249
- Mm-hmm.
- And I forgot what happened
the first week.

00:58:32.250 --> 00:58:36.208
And then my son got sick.
He was in the hospital
for a couple days.

00:58:36.209 --> 00:58:37.958
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

00:58:37.959 --> 00:58:39.750
That\'s a lot going on.
Yeah.

00:58:39.751 --> 00:58:41.416
You know,
sometimes people think,

00:58:41.417 --> 00:58:46.541
\"Oh, why don\'t you just
continue the pregnancy
and adopt out the baby?\"

00:58:46.542 --> 00:58:48.249
What do you think about that?

00:58:48.250 --> 00:58:51.291
I didn\'t
take care of myself
with this baby.

00:58:51.292 --> 00:58:55.417
Been drinkin\'.
No prenatal.

00:58:56.083 --> 00:58:58.584
Already have two kids.

00:58:58.751 --> 00:59:01.500
I mean, I would
if I could, but...

00:59:01.501 --> 00:59:04.209
I really can\'t.

00:59:04.709 --> 00:59:06.417
Okay. Okay.

00:59:07.042 --> 00:59:09.500
So, who\'s with your kids now?

00:59:09.501 --> 00:59:10.000
Their dad.

00:59:10.001 --> 00:59:13.416
Does he know you\'re here?
He knows I\'m here.
He knows the reason.

00:59:13.417 --> 00:59:17.583
My family knows I\'m here,
but they think
it\'s just for a vacation.

00:59:17.584 --> 00:59:19.374
A vacation in Albuquerque.

00:59:19.375 --> 00:59:20.750
Yeah.
Yeah.

00:59:20.751 --> 00:59:23.791
What do you think would happen
if you told them?

00:59:23.792 --> 00:59:28.250
I don\'t know. I don\'t even
want to think about that.
Yeah.

00:59:28.876 --> 00:59:32.249
Probably call me
a murderer or somethin\'.
Mmm.

00:59:32.250 --> 00:59:33.374
Yeah.

00:59:33.375 --> 00:59:35.666
Are you okay with your decision?

00:59:35.667 --> 00:59:37.833
I\'m getting there.

00:59:37.834 --> 00:59:40.541
It\'s like I\'m dealin\'
with God and myself.

00:59:40.542 --> 00:59:42.750
So, I\'m, like,
would he forgive me?

00:59:42.751 --> 00:59:44.458
Will I forgive myself?

00:59:44.459 --> 00:59:47.834
But I know this is
what I need to do.

00:59:49.250 --> 00:59:50.791
\'Cause, you know, uh...

00:59:50.792 --> 00:59:53.918
I know this is
what I need to do.

00:59:54.083 --> 00:59:58.082
I just been prayin\',
hoping God forgives me...

00:59:58.083 --> 01:00:01.041
and that I\'ll be
all right by myself.

01:00:01.042 --> 01:00:02.625
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:02.626 --> 01:00:04.999
You know, none of us is perfect.

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.124
That I do know.
Yeah.

01:00:06.125 --> 01:00:09.750
And this whole thing
made me realize,
don\'t judge nobody.

01:00:09.751 --> 01:00:13.249
You don\'t know
what the next person
is goin\' through.

01:00:13.250 --> 01:00:14.791
So don\'t judge, you know.

01:00:14.792 --> 01:00:17.416
\'Cause I don\'t want
anybody to judge me...

01:00:17.417 --> 01:00:20.249
for my decisions
that I make in life.

01:00:20.250 --> 01:00:21.374
Yeah.

01:00:21.375 --> 01:00:24.333
God wants you to be okay.
Don\'t you think?

01:00:24.334 --> 01:00:26.082
I\'ll be okay, you know.

01:00:26.083 --> 01:00:30.374
It\'s the beginning
of the process, so...
I know.

01:00:30.375 --> 01:00:35.542
I think I\'ll be at peace
once it\'s all over with.

01:00:36.876 --> 01:00:40.501
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.

01:00:41.209 --> 01:00:43.250
Any questions?

01:00:44.083 --> 01:00:46.750
I think for some providers...

01:00:46.751 --> 01:00:51.583
what\'s difficult about
the third-trimester abortion...
and not just providers...

01:00:51.584 --> 01:00:53.416
Is that...

01:00:53.417 --> 01:00:56.959
the woman delivers a baby.

01:00:58.083 --> 01:01:00.250
And it\'s a stillborn.

01:01:00.959 --> 01:01:04.876
And that\'s hardnto deal with.

01:01:05.584 --> 01:01:07.583
Good morning.
Hi.

01:01:07.584 --> 01:01:08.584
How was your night?

01:01:08.585 --> 01:01:11.751
[ Sella ]I think the
reasonnl\'ve struggled...

01:01:12.709 --> 01:01:16.250
is because I think of them
as babies.

01:01:19.876 --> 01:01:22.626
I don\'t think of that
as a fetus.

01:01:23.083 --> 01:01:29.918
To me, I-I think of that as
a... na way to distance myself...

01:01:30.876 --> 01:01:31.584
from what I do.

01:01:31.585 --> 01:01:36.124
I mean, it\'s one thing when it\'s
a first-trimester abortion...

01:01:36.125 --> 01:01:41.751
and what you see
is a little bit of tissue.

01:01:42.667 --> 01:01:46.292
But if you go all the
waynto the other extreme,

01:01:46.417 --> 01:01:49.124
you can\'t say that\'s a...
Some tissue.

01:01:49.125 --> 01:01:50.917
That\'s not tissue.

01:01:50.918 --> 01:01:52.918
It\'s a baby.

01:01:53.125 --> 01:01:54.917
Then you have tonthink about it.

01:01:54.918 --> 01:01:57.500
You know, it\'s, like,
wh-what are you doing?

01:01:57.501 --> 01:02:00.584
And why are you doing it?

01:02:02.417 --> 01:02:03.083
Yeah, you got that.

01:02:03.084 --> 01:02:07.041
We\'re also putting Pitocin
in your I.V. Go ahead
and put your legs down.

01:02:07.042 --> 01:02:10.626
Go ahead
and put your legs down.
There you go.

01:02:10.751 --> 01:02:13.625
[ Sella ] Well, it\'s inside the mother.

01:02:13.626 --> 01:02:15.666
[ No Audible Dialogue ]

01:02:15.667 --> 01:02:17.374
And she can\'t handle it,

01:02:17.375 --> 01:02:23.083
for many, many
extremely desperate reasons.

01:02:29.042 --> 01:02:30.958
[ Monitor Beeps ]

01:02:30.959 --> 01:02:34.958
[ Sella ]What drives women to
seekna third-trimester abortion?

01:02:34.959 --> 01:02:39.082
The less people understand
what\'s going on for the woman,

01:02:39.083 --> 01:02:41.791
it\'s impossible to support it.

01:02:41.792 --> 01:02:43.082
How could you, really?

01:02:43.083 --> 01:02:47.792
I mean, it sounds...
It sounds barbaric,
doesn\'t it?

01:03:01.459 --> 01:03:03.249
[ Carhart ] After what happened in Iowa,

01:03:03.250 --> 01:03:09.750
we met with our attorneysand said,
where isnthe best place to go...

01:03:09.751 --> 01:03:10.292
for the laws?

01:03:10.293 --> 01:03:16.584
And Maryland was,
without any question,
the best place for all that.

01:03:19.083 --> 01:03:20.625
Whoa.

01:03:20.626 --> 01:03:21.250
Oh, see.

01:03:21.251 --> 01:03:26.209
It was hard to find landlordsnbecause
no one would rent to us.

01:03:26.292 --> 01:03:30.291
But eventuallywe found the
clinic herenin Maryland.

01:03:30.292 --> 01:03:32.999
I\'m not gonna be naive and
say that Operation Rescue...

01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:36.416
may not come and target usnin Maryland,
Nbecause they certainly may.

01:03:36.417 --> 01:03:41.541
I don\'t thinkthey\'re gonna get a
very warmnreception in Maryland.

01:03:41.542 --> 01:03:44.082
[ Applause ]N[ Woman ] It\'s
time we took authority,

01:03:44.083 --> 01:03:48.500
because we are
spirit-filledninstruments of Christ,

01:03:48.501 --> 01:03:54.082
and if we don\'t stand
in opposition
to this late-term abortionist,

01:03:54.083 --> 01:03:57.625
he will wreck and ruin and
destroy your whole community.
[ Applause ]

01:03:57.626 --> 01:04:01.875
[ Man ] In 1991, I stoodwith 80 pastors
on the streetsnof Wichita, Kansas,

01:04:01.876 --> 01:04:08.249
and we covenanted with Godto believe
that Wichitanwould be abortion-free.

01:04:08.250 --> 01:04:10.708
It took 19 years,

01:04:10.709 --> 01:04:14.917
but todaynthe city of Wichita, Kansas,

01:04:14.918 --> 01:04:16.917
is abortion-free.

01:04:16.918 --> 01:04:20.333
It is an example
and a prophetic witness... n[ Applause ]

01:04:20.334 --> 01:04:24.917
what Godhas done... and what God willdo.

01:04:24.918 --> 01:04:25.751
[ Applause ]

01:04:25.752 --> 01:04:29.917
[ Carhart ]Dr. Tiller, he always
said, well, it could be you or me.

01:04:29.918 --> 01:04:31.082
I don\'t want to be the next.

01:04:31.083 --> 01:04:36.375
But I think that this is
where somebody now has to say
enough is enough.

01:04:36.959 --> 01:04:38.500
[ Man ] Carhart\'s here.

01:04:38.501 --> 01:04:40.249
It\'s discouraging. It\'s frustrating.

01:04:40.250 --> 01:04:43.666
Brothers and sisters, it\'s happened before.

01:04:43.667 --> 01:04:45.208
It\'s gonna happen again.

01:04:45.209 --> 01:04:48.417
God will do something amazing.
Let\'s pray.

01:04:48.584 --> 01:04:51.416
The Lord be with you.
[ Congregation ]
And also with you.

01:04:51.417 --> 01:04:54.876
[ Man ] Blessed be the name of the Lord.

01:05:11.959 --> 01:05:14.083
[ Door Closes ]

01:05:15.751 --> 01:05:17.751
Okay.

01:05:19.125 --> 01:05:21.917
Suze.
[ Chuckles ]
Oh, here we go.

01:05:21.918 --> 01:05:25.458
[ Sighs ]
[ Laughs ]
This is not good.

01:05:25.459 --> 01:05:28.166
This is not good,
a sigh like that.

01:05:28.167 --> 01:05:32.249
Uh, you know, all the years
I\'ve been doing this, Susan,

01:05:32.250 --> 01:05:33.833
this is like
only the second time...

01:05:33.834 --> 01:05:36.708
that I don\'t think
I can counsel this patient
any further.

01:05:36.709 --> 01:05:40.249
I mean, that I can\'t
be there for her
if we go through with this.

01:05:40.250 --> 01:05:43.208
I... And I rarely give up
on a patient, but...

01:05:43.209 --> 01:05:47.249
Okay, so she called last week.
She was approved by Shelley.

01:05:47.250 --> 01:05:51.082
There\'s her intake care.
Let\'s go over it
real quick.

01:05:51.083 --> 01:05:52.833
Um... Um...

01:05:52.834 --> 01:05:57.166
Sixteen years old.
She\'s 25 weeks today.

01:05:57.167 --> 01:05:58.625
She hates herself.

01:05:58.626 --> 01:06:02.291
She\'s mad at herself
that she let this happen.

01:06:02.292 --> 01:06:04.500
Um, she\'s been pro-life,

01:06:04.501 --> 01:06:06.583
so she thinks this is
killing her baby.

01:06:06.584 --> 01:06:11.750
Then Joan said, \"How are you
gonna forgive yourself?\"
\"I don\'t know if I ever will.\"

01:06:11.751 --> 01:06:14.333
She\'s Catholic.
\"Will you go to confession?\"

01:06:14.334 --> 01:06:16.166
\"Yeah, I\'ll probably
go to confession.\"

01:06:16.167 --> 01:06:19.458
How would she forgive herself
if she had the baby?

01:06:19.459 --> 01:06:20.958
Well, we talked about adoption.

01:06:20.959 --> 01:06:24.583
They met with the boy,
with the boy\'s parents,
they met with the mother.

01:06:24.584 --> 01:06:27.458
They all want her
to have the baby.
Keep the baby.

01:06:27.459 --> 01:06:30.374
\"This is wrong.
You\'re killing a baby.
This is wrong.\"

01:06:30.375 --> 01:06:34.416
Boyfriend\'s parents said,
\"We\'ll take the baby,
we\'ll raise the baby.\"

01:06:34.417 --> 01:06:34.918
Mm-hmm.

01:06:34.919 --> 01:06:38.583
But she says she didn\'t
think she could walk away
from the baby,

01:06:38.584 --> 01:06:40.166
but she doesn\'t want a baby.

01:06:40.167 --> 01:06:44.875
I look at her, and I...
The look in her eyes
is just like...

01:06:44.876 --> 01:06:47.124
Like she hates herself.

01:06:47.125 --> 01:06:50.750
And so is she gonna be
bitter over this
the rest of her life?

01:06:50.751 --> 01:06:52.416
Is she gonna try to harm...

01:06:52.417 --> 01:06:55.999
Is she gonna become
of these... Is she gonna
become an alcoholic?

01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.416
Is she gonna try to do
self-harm?

01:06:58.417 --> 01:07:01.124
The \"antis\" out there say,
Oh, you\'re never
gonna get over this.

01:07:01.125 --> 01:07:05.291
Well, this is one that I think
she\'s not gonna get over it,
to be honest with you.

01:07:05.292 --> 01:07:09.500
Okay.
Joan said, well, she\'s saying
she doesn\'t want to have a baby.

01:07:09.501 --> 01:07:13.583
And she\'s saying that,
you know, maybe she can
never forgive herself.

01:07:13.584 --> 01:07:15.833
And I guess
we have to let her
have that.

01:07:15.834 --> 01:07:18.541
Right.
I mean, we\'re...
[ Sighs ]

01:07:18.542 --> 01:07:20.625
But...
We can\'t...

01:07:20.626 --> 01:07:22.750
protect people
from regret.
I know.

01:07:22.751 --> 01:07:26.291
- If she wants... If she...
- But I don\'t feel...

01:07:26.292 --> 01:07:29.333
I can participate
in this anymore.

01:07:29.334 --> 01:07:30.583
Okay.

01:07:30.584 --> 01:07:33.792
So you think I shouldn\'t do it.

01:07:34.542 --> 01:07:35.958
I don\'t... No.
I don\'t think so.

01:07:35.959 --> 01:07:40.833
Okay.
But, you know, like I said,
I can\'t make that decision.

01:07:40.834 --> 01:07:42.709
I can\'t...

01:07:44.083 --> 01:07:45.416
So I...
I don\'t like it.

01:07:45.417 --> 01:07:48.124
I\'ll go talk to her,
and what I may say is,

01:07:48.125 --> 01:07:50.875
I want you to
go back to the hotel
and think this over,

01:07:50.876 --> 01:07:55.833
and if you come back tomorrow
and tell me that
this is what you want...

01:07:55.834 --> 01:07:59.082
I mean, that would be,
I guess, my fall-back position,

01:07:59.083 --> 01:08:01.291
rather than just
send her home to Nevada.

01:08:01.292 --> 01:08:02.209
No.
Yeah, no, I don\'t...

01:08:02.210 --> 01:08:06.958
To say we\'re all uncertain that
this is the right thing for you,

01:08:06.959 --> 01:08:09.999
so I want you to go home...

01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:11.917
Or go back to the hotel...

01:08:11.918 --> 01:08:14.583
and think deeply about this...

01:08:14.584 --> 01:08:18.999
and come back and tell us
if this is...

01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:24.416
That this is what
you have decided
and what you want.

01:08:24.417 --> 01:08:25.917
Mm-hmm.

01:08:25.918 --> 01:08:27.291
But again, I feel yucky.

01:08:27.292 --> 01:08:29.166
You can\'t solve
everybody\'s problems.

01:08:29.167 --> 01:08:32.291
Well, I know I can\'t,
but, damn it, I want to.

01:08:32.292 --> 01:08:34.082
[ Both Laughing ]
Me too.

01:08:34.083 --> 01:08:36.082
I want to solve
everybody\'s problems.

01:08:36.083 --> 01:08:37.791
I want to solve
everybody\'s problems.

01:08:37.792 --> 01:08:41.416
My name is Susan Robinson.
I\'m the doctor.
I\'m Lucy. Nice to meet you.

01:08:41.417 --> 01:08:45.083
Hi, Lucy.
Nice to meet you too.

01:08:46.375 --> 01:08:48.124
[ Robinson ]
Do you feel like
introducing yourself...

01:08:48.125 --> 01:08:53.249
or telling a little bit
about how you came to be here
and what\'s...

01:08:53.250 --> 01:08:57.250
It\'s been quite a catastrophe
for you.

01:08:57.751 --> 01:09:00.583
Um, I\'m from Reno, Nevada.

01:09:00.584 --> 01:09:02.791
And I was kind of in denial...

01:09:02.792 --> 01:09:05.208
up until, like, a month ago.

01:09:05.209 --> 01:09:08.999
Then I was too scared
to tell my mom,

01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:11.918
just as far as disappointment.

01:09:13.667 --> 01:09:14.417
Yeah.

01:09:14.418 --> 01:09:17.583
[ Clears Throat ]
When I actually could
tell her,

01:09:17.584 --> 01:09:19.833
or we had a talk about it,

01:09:19.834 --> 01:09:22.542
it was too late.

01:09:22.626 --> 01:09:23.584
[ Robinson ] Women come here...

01:09:23.585 --> 01:09:30.833
having decided that this is nota pregnancy
that they cannor want to sustain.

01:09:30.834 --> 01:09:32.709
And, um,

01:09:33.751 --> 01:09:36.791
wh-where does... where...
Where does it come from...

01:09:36.792 --> 01:09:40.709
that I get to say,
\"Oh, yeah? Well, why?\"

01:09:42.083 --> 01:09:44.041
Why? Why do younwant an abortion?

01:09:44.042 --> 01:09:47.959
You explain to me,
justify it to me.

01:09:48.834 --> 01:09:49.917
Why is that fair?

01:09:49.918 --> 01:09:52.082
What if you\'re just notna good storyteller?

01:09:52.083 --> 01:09:59.334
Why would it be okay for me tosay, \"No, you\'ve
gotta tell mena better story than that?\"

01:09:59.417 --> 01:10:02.541
Because what I believenis that women...

01:10:02.542 --> 01:10:06.999
are able to struggle with
complex ethical issues...

01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:09.249
and arrive
at the right decision...

01:10:09.250 --> 01:10:11.249
for themselves
and their families.

01:10:11.250 --> 01:10:15.918
They are the world\'s expert
on their own lives.

01:10:16.501 --> 01:10:22.042
So if somebody comes in and she
says, \"I want an abortion,\"

01:10:25.250 --> 01:10:28.583
whether or not
she is articulate about it,

01:10:28.584 --> 01:10:33.875
let alone whether she has
a great story to tell,
isn\'t the point.

01:10:33.876 --> 01:10:38.584
The point is that
she has made this decision.

01:10:39.417 --> 01:10:41.959
And you know,

01:10:44.250 --> 01:10:46.708
i-if... when you take
a stand like that,

01:10:46.709 --> 01:10:50.124
and then, okay,
start pushing the limits,
start pushing the limits,

01:10:50.125 --> 01:10:56.291
eventually you arrive
at a place where you say,
\"I couldn\'t do that.\"

01:10:56.292 --> 01:10:58.584
But, um,

01:10:58.959 --> 01:11:00.666
I think if you\'re gonna...

01:11:00.667 --> 01:11:04.584
For me, if I\'m gonna
turn down a patient,

01:11:05.292 --> 01:11:10.249
it should be because
I think it\'s not safe to...
to take care of her.

01:11:10.250 --> 01:11:13.833
I think that\'s the...
Really the only reason...

01:11:13.834 --> 01:11:16.959
that it\'s fair
to turn a patient down.

01:11:23.083 --> 01:11:26.082
To me, she sounds
completely clear.

01:11:26.083 --> 01:11:26.459
Oh!

01:11:26.460 --> 01:11:31.917
I said, look, of course
you don\'t want an abortion.
Nobody wants an abortion.

01:11:31.918 --> 01:11:32.792
You have three choices.

01:11:32.793 --> 01:11:35.999
You can have a kid
that you say you can\'t
take good care of,

01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.416
you can have a kid
and give it to somebody else...

01:11:39.417 --> 01:11:40.625
who you know or don\'t know,

01:11:40.626 --> 01:11:44.583
or you can have an abortion,
which you think is
the wrong thing to do.

01:11:44.584 --> 01:11:48.249
Those are your three choices.
They all suck.

01:11:48.250 --> 01:11:50.791
But you have to
pick one of them.

01:11:50.792 --> 01:11:53.249
And she said,
\"I am committed.\"

01:11:53.250 --> 01:11:55.541
She said, \"I am committed\"
three or four times.

01:11:55.542 --> 01:11:58.333
And I said,
\"So you have struggled
with this decision,

01:11:58.334 --> 01:12:04.584
and you\'ve arrived at what
you think is the best choice
that you have available to you.

01:12:05.083 --> 01:12:07.166
And you feel bad about it.

01:12:07.167 --> 01:12:09.918
You regret it already.

01:12:10.792 --> 01:12:14.291
But you think
it\'s the best of your choices.\"

01:12:14.292 --> 01:12:15.374
And she said, \"Yes.\"

01:12:15.375 --> 01:12:20.041
And I said, \"You want me
to go ahead with this?\"
And she said, \"Yes.\"

01:12:20.042 --> 01:12:20.959
Okay.
And she said,

01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:24.791
\"I\'ve had plenty
of time to think about it.
I\'m committed.\"

01:12:24.792 --> 01:12:25.334
Okay.

01:12:25.335 --> 01:12:29.583
Maybe she just couldn\'t
bring herself to say,
yes, I want an abortion.

01:12:29.584 --> 01:12:33.082
Nobody fucking wants
an abortion.

01:12:33.083 --> 01:12:34.791
And she did great.

01:12:34.792 --> 01:12:36.959
She did.

01:12:37.959 --> 01:12:40.250
[ Clears Throat ]

01:12:46.584 --> 01:12:50.625
[ Women Chanting ]
Hey-hey! Ho-ho! nRoe v. Wadehas go to go!

01:12:50.626 --> 01:12:54.458
Hey-hey! Ho-ho!
Roe v. Wade has go to go!

01:12:54.459 --> 01:12:58.082
Hey-hey! Ho-ho! nRoe v. Wadehas go to go!

01:12:58.083 --> 01:13:01.666
Hey-hey! Ho-ho!
Roe v. Wade has go to go!

01:13:01.667 --> 01:13:04.458
[ Woman ]
Remember, that could have
been you!

01:13:04.459 --> 01:13:06.583
It could have been you
in that womb!

01:13:06.584 --> 01:13:08.208
That could have been you, sir!

01:13:08.209 --> 01:13:12.458
[ Man ]
This is not a happy day
for our nation,

01:13:12.459 --> 01:13:15.917
and particularly for
the state of Maryland,

01:13:15.918 --> 01:13:18.333
for today LeRoy Carhart,

01:13:18.334 --> 01:13:23.750
now the most infamous
late-term abortion provider
in America,

01:13:23.751 --> 01:13:28.751
has come to open
his business here.

01:13:28.876 --> 01:13:33.208
We are gathering here
this morning...

01:13:33.209 --> 01:13:36.374
as a witness for life.

01:13:36.375 --> 01:13:39.751
We are sending
a clear message...

01:13:40.250 --> 01:13:41.917
to LeRoy Carhart...

01:13:41.918 --> 01:13:45.209
and to every business...

01:13:45.334 --> 01:13:46.999
and doctor\'s office...

01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:49.917
and dentist\'s office
in this plaza...

01:13:49.918 --> 01:13:55.459
that we will not be silent.

01:13:55.876 --> 01:13:57.750
We will not be complacent...

01:13:57.751 --> 01:14:00.416
while women
are being brutalized...

01:14:00.417 --> 01:14:03.583
and viable children
are dying.
[ Applause, Cheering ]

01:14:03.584 --> 01:14:05.458
We want every business owner
to know,

01:14:05.459 --> 01:14:10.958
as long as this is
the home of LeRoy Carhart,
it\'s now our home.

01:14:10.959 --> 01:14:14.583
We are going to be here.
We are going to pray.

01:14:14.584 --> 01:14:16.249
- We are going to stay.
- [ Applause, Cheering ]

01:14:16.250 --> 01:14:18.958
[ Man on Megaphone ]
Life, yes!
[ Crowd ] Abortion, no!

01:14:18.959 --> 01:14:21.917
- Life, yes!
- Abortion, no!

01:14:21.918 --> 01:14:23.791
No more abortion!
No more abortion!

01:14:23.792 --> 01:14:26.583
[ Woman ]On back-to-school night
at a Maryland middle school,

01:14:26.584 --> 01:14:29.583
protestors stationed themselves
outside the middle school,

01:14:29.584 --> 01:14:32.249
carrying graphic, bloody
antiabortion signs.

01:14:32.250 --> 01:14:37.041
The protestors were at that particular middle
school because the father of a student there...

01:14:37.042 --> 01:14:40.249
owns the property where Dr.
LeRoy Carhart works.

01:14:40.250 --> 01:14:45.082
So to protest Dr. Carhart, the
protestors picketed the school...

01:14:45.083 --> 01:14:49.917
attended by the child of the owner of the
property where the doctor practices.

01:14:49.918 --> 01:14:52.875
The antiabortion people
also put up a Web site...

01:14:52.876 --> 01:14:54.500
with all of Todd Stave\'s
contact information.

01:14:54.501 --> 01:14:58.124
The site urged people to contact
Todd Stave and ask him to...

01:14:58.125 --> 01:15:00.750
cancel the doctor\'s lease,
close down its clinic...

01:15:00.751 --> 01:15:04.584
and not to allow anybody to replace Dr.
Carhart.

01:15:05.709 --> 01:15:07.416
[ Carhart ] The thing with the school,

01:15:07.417 --> 01:15:12.208
it aggravated the owner
enoughnthat he got very, very...

01:15:12.209 --> 01:15:15.208
He took it really personally.

01:15:15.209 --> 01:15:18.625
Now, could Todd say, n
\"Tomorrow, move\"? Yeah.

01:15:18.626 --> 01:15:19.584
Then I\'d have to move.

01:15:19.585 --> 01:15:23.041
And I think
if we don\'t fight back,
it\'ll go away,

01:15:23.042 --> 01:15:24.833
that abortion
will not be available.

01:15:24.834 --> 01:15:27.666
[ Together ]
May God rebuke him,
we humbly pray,

01:15:27.667 --> 01:15:32.249
and do thou,
prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God,

01:15:32.250 --> 01:15:33.083
cast into hell Satan...

01:15:33.084 --> 01:15:38.792
and all the evil spirits
who prowl among the world,
seeking the ruin of souls.

01:15:47.626 --> 01:15:50.125
[ Sighs ]

01:15:53.292 --> 01:15:58.041
Wanna call the police?
There\'s that same black car
following us.

01:15:58.042 --> 01:16:01.166
Oh, we\'ve got a little
welcoming committee
out here today.

01:16:01.167 --> 01:16:03.875
Oh, they\'ve got
a couple of little kids.
How nice.

01:16:03.876 --> 01:16:07.334
Just what you need...
Your kids out in the cold.

01:16:07.417 --> 01:16:10.791
[ Sella ]Absolutely, I think
that the community of Wichita...

01:16:10.792 --> 01:16:13.875
was responsible for Dr.
Tiller being killed.

01:16:13.876 --> 01:16:16.583
Of course, not directly.
They didn\'t
pull the trigger.

01:16:16.584 --> 01:16:21.958
But there was
such a climate of
disdain, at its best,

01:16:21.959 --> 01:16:25.375
and hatred, at its worst,
for him.

01:16:25.459 --> 01:16:27.124
Everyone loved him
when they needed him,

01:16:27.125 --> 01:16:30.249
when, you know...
when their kid
needed an abortion.

01:16:30.250 --> 01:16:34.834
Well, of course they wanted him
because he was the best.

01:16:35.083 --> 01:16:37.625
But that was all secret.

01:16:37.626 --> 01:16:42.584
But aside from that,
he was a pariah.

01:16:44.417 --> 01:16:46.999
And it was on all levels.

01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:49.375
All levels.

01:16:50.626 --> 01:16:52.583
[ Sella ]It was amazing. And it continues.

01:16:52.584 --> 01:16:57.041
You know, there\'s a woman who is trying
to opennan abortion clinic in Wichita,

01:16:57.042 --> 01:17:02.124
and her landlord
will not renew her lease
to perform abortions...

01:17:02.125 --> 01:17:05.416
because Operation Rescue
has threatened them.

01:17:05.417 --> 01:17:07.416
So, who wants to
have a tenant...

01:17:07.417 --> 01:17:12.000
where there\'s gonna be
protestors outside
all the time?

01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:16.875
That\'s what\'s really maddening to me,

01:17:16.876 --> 01:17:21.082
that here, this provider was killed...

01:17:21.083 --> 01:17:23.500
in Wichita,

01:17:23.501 --> 01:17:26.167
and yet nothing has changed.

01:17:26.250 --> 01:17:29.249
It\'s almost like
people were relieved.

01:17:29.250 --> 01:17:31.999
Now we don\'t have to
deal with this anymore,

01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:35.041
and we don\'t want
to deal with it anymore.

01:17:35.042 --> 01:17:37.584
It\'s abortion-free.

01:17:39.417 --> 01:17:43.208
It\'s disheartening.
It\'s really disheartening.

01:17:43.209 --> 01:17:45.583
[ Woman ]Joining us tonight for
the interview is Todd Stave.

01:17:45.584 --> 01:17:50.249
He\'s the Maryland entrepreneur who was
targeted at his child\'s middle school.

01:17:50.250 --> 01:17:53.291
Thank you very much for being here tonight.
Thank you for having me.

01:17:53.292 --> 01:17:56.291
How did you decide
the right way to respond
to these protestors?

01:17:56.292 --> 01:18:00.750
Well, I\'ve actually been a victim of
this sort of thing for my entire life.

01:18:00.751 --> 01:18:02.416
My fathernwas an abortion provider,

01:18:02.417 --> 01:18:06.917
and I remember whennl was a junior in
high school back in the early \'80s...

01:18:06.918 --> 01:18:08.416
my father\'s clinic
was fire-bombed.

01:18:08.417 --> 01:18:12.249
So I\'ve been around
this sort of thing
for my entire life.

01:18:12.250 --> 01:18:15.708
And to go in frontnof my
daughter\'s middle school...

01:18:15.709 --> 01:18:17.583
and attempt to humiliate me,

01:18:17.584 --> 01:18:19.999
and attempt tonhumiliate my daughter...

01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:20.751
I needed to fight back.

01:18:20.752 --> 01:18:24.333
Mr. Stave started
taking down the names
and phone numbers...

01:18:24.334 --> 01:18:26.166
of the people who called him...

01:18:26.167 --> 01:18:29.041
to call the people backnwho
had been calling him,

01:18:29.042 --> 01:18:32.291
to thank them for their thoughts
and to tell them that, no,

01:18:32.292 --> 01:18:33.917
he would not be shutting Dr. Carhart down.

01:18:33.918 --> 01:18:38.041
He couldn\'t legally, even if he wanted
to, and besides, he didn\'t want to.

01:18:38.042 --> 01:18:39.042
He supports women\'s rights.

01:18:39.043 --> 01:18:42.875
As a landlord,
I support you.
That\'s wonderful.

01:18:42.876 --> 01:18:48.917
And, um, I-I\'m never...
I\'m not going to tell you
to stop or kick you out.

01:18:48.918 --> 01:18:50.082
Um, I can only hope...

01:18:50.083 --> 01:18:53.082
that when you ultimately retirethat
somebody elsentakes your place.

01:18:53.083 --> 01:18:56.625
[ Carhart ]I think he felt they
hadnno right targeting him...

01:18:56.626 --> 01:18:58.082
because he wasna property owner...

01:18:58.083 --> 01:19:01.374
and he was leasing a building
to somebody doing
something legal.

01:19:01.375 --> 01:19:03.666
And they were purely doing this
to intimidate him,

01:19:03.667 --> 01:19:07.750
and he had
the intestinal fortitude to say,
\"You\'re not gonna do that.\"

01:19:07.751 --> 01:19:13.416
Really, I wanted you to know
how much I really appreciate
what you\'re doing and, uh...

01:19:13.417 --> 01:19:15.626
All right.
Bye-bye, Todd.

01:19:17.876 --> 01:19:20.875
[ Carhart ]Things have changednsince Dr.
Tiller\'s death.

01:19:20.876 --> 01:19:24.249
And it\'s a shame
that George had to die
to get that started,

01:19:24.250 --> 01:19:29.750
but I think indeed, he did get
a lot of the dialogue started
that\'s going on today.

01:19:29.751 --> 01:19:32.416
And we don\'t have
Dr. Tiller anymore,

01:19:32.417 --> 01:19:35.458
but we still have the four of
usnthat are still practicing,

01:19:35.459 --> 01:19:41.542
and I think that Georgewould be proud
thatnwe are carrying on his work.

01:19:41.876 --> 01:19:43.583
Unfortunately, the Friday before he died...

01:19:43.584 --> 01:19:50.124
he had called me and he said,\"I want you to come
down Sundayn because I\'m not gonna be here.

01:19:50.125 --> 01:19:53.249
I\'m planning on the three
of younrunning the clinic,

01:19:53.250 --> 01:19:55.625
and I\'m just gonnanspend
time with my family.\"

01:19:55.626 --> 01:19:57.750
He just really wanted to
enjoynbeing the grandfather.

01:19:57.751 --> 01:20:02.124
And so the loss to the practice
and the loss to the women
were great,

01:20:02.125 --> 01:20:06.750
but the loss to his family
was probably the biggest...

01:20:06.751 --> 01:20:10.042
The biggest loss that occurred.

01:20:16.584 --> 01:20:19.584
What do you think?
Yes.

01:20:20.918 --> 01:20:23.124
[ Speaking Spanish ]

01:20:23.125 --> 01:20:24.918
Mm-hmm.

01:20:46.542 --> 01:20:49.374
[ Hern ]Being an abortion
doctornis something I have to do.

01:20:49.375 --> 01:20:52.625
It\'s something Ineed to do.
I want to do it.

01:20:52.626 --> 01:20:55.791
But until a few years ago,

01:20:55.792 --> 01:20:57.708
when I met my wife,

01:20:57.709 --> 01:21:00.583
it made me feelnextremely isolated...

01:21:00.584 --> 01:21:03.292
and very lonely.

01:21:04.959 --> 01:21:09.792
You know, this is a...
this is not a subject
which is easy.

01:21:10.834 --> 01:21:14.501
And, you know,
people can disagree.

01:21:25.083 --> 01:21:28.958
See you in the afternoon.
I\'ll come back in the afternoon.

01:21:28.959 --> 01:21:30.750
Okay, sweetie.

01:21:30.751 --> 01:21:32.583
Bye.
Okay.
All right.

01:21:32.584 --> 01:21:35.249
Take good care, you.
I love you.
Okay.

01:21:35.250 --> 01:21:38.042
I\'ll see you later.

01:21:39.918 --> 01:21:41.999
[ Hern ]I never even
plannednto practice medicine,

01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:47.250
much less specialize in... much less
specializenin doing abortions.

01:21:48.876 --> 01:21:51.334
So, here we are.

01:21:54.250 --> 01:21:56.583
[ Fernando ]

01:21:56.584 --> 01:21:58.333
Well, I wanted to be
a race car driver.

01:21:58.334 --> 01:22:04.750
I wanted to be a photographer
and a photojournalist
and a writer.

01:22:04.751 --> 01:22:08.500
And, uh, I wanted tonhave a family.

01:22:08.501 --> 01:22:10.750
I wanted to benan epidemiologist.

01:22:10.751 --> 01:22:12.583
[ Fernando ]
Which you are. Yes.

01:22:12.584 --> 01:22:18.666
Warren, you\'re pretty much
everything you\'ve said
but a race car driver.

01:22:18.667 --> 01:22:21.583
Uh, there are times, if you
were following me, Fernando,

01:22:21.584 --> 01:22:23.917
you might thinknyou were
mistaken about that.

01:22:23.918 --> 01:22:28.417
But I haven\'t done that with
you and your mom in the car.

01:22:35.083 --> 01:22:36.917
¿Y tú?

01:22:36.918 --> 01:22:40.542
[ Chattering, Indistinct ]

01:22:53.042 --> 01:22:56.292
[ No Audible Dialogue ]