00:00:07.150 --> 00:00:12.150
(eerie music)

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- [Interviewer] Adam Spillane
is just back

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from an experience
that's out of this world.

00:00:34.170 --> 00:00:36.390
Well, Adam, maybe, I guess,
it's under this world.

00:00:36.390 --> 00:00:37.620
Would that be more accurate?

00:00:37.620 --> 00:00:39.210
- [Adam] Yes, that would
be more accurate.

00:00:39.210 --> 00:00:40.260
- [Interviewer] Where were you?

00:00:40.260 --> 00:00:42.690
- [Adam] I was in a cave in Vietnam,

00:00:42.690 --> 00:00:45.870
currently the largest
cave passage in the world.

00:00:45.870 --> 00:00:49.860
The cave is Hang Son Doong,
which means mountain river cave.

00:00:49.860 --> 00:00:53.250
It's in the Phong Nha-Ke Bang
National Park in Vietnam,

00:00:53.250 --> 00:00:55.143
which is also a World Heritage Site.

00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:02.280
- [Interviewer] This is a huge
cave, like four miles long.

00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:03.840
- [Adam] Yeah, about four miles long.

00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.380
But the major thing about it
was the passage dimensions,

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which are over 600 feet
high and over 450 feet wide.

00:01:12.300 --> 00:01:13.410
- [Interviewer] So you
didn't need to duck?

00:01:13.410 --> 00:01:14.520
- [Adam] Ah, no.

00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:18.030
- [Interviewer] And it has
these enormous vaulted ceilings

00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:19.453
like a cathedral.

00:01:20.370 --> 00:01:21.270
- [Adam] Yes, it does,

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but a little bigger
than most cathedrals.

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- [Interviewer] What did it
feel like being in there?

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Did it feel, to you, like
you were in a sacred space?

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- [Adam] Could I just pass
you over to my colleague here,

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Helen Brooke, who was the
youngest member of the expedition.

00:01:40.590 --> 00:01:41.850
- [Helen] It felt really humbling

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and you felt just really tiny.

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- [Interviewer] Do you
have plans to go back?

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- [Adam] Yes. At the moment we're
planning to go back in 2011.

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(gentle music)

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- [Adam] It is currently the
biggest cave in the world,

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which is a big deal for lots of people.

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And as a result of that,

00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:09.480
there's been an awful lot of tourism

00:02:09.480 --> 00:02:11.505
to this part of the world.

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(speaking in Vietnamese)

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- [President Obama] If we're gonna
ensure the health of our people

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and the beauty of our planet,

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then development has to be sustainable.

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Natural wonders like Ha
Long Bay and Son Doong Cave

00:02:32.580 --> 00:02:35.580
have to be preserved for our
children and our grandchildren.

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(gentle music)

00:03:15.668 --> 00:03:18.418
(water swishing)

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(birds chirping)
(owl hooting)

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(water sloshing)

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(fire whooshing)

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(birds chirping)

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(people chattering)

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(gentle mandolin music)

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(utensil thudding)

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(knife banging)

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(air hissing)

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(people chattering)

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- [Adam] On the original
exploration we did,

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I had a torch which had
four AA batteries

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and it was not very bright.

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I could see, well,
all the way to my feet

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most of the time. (laughs)

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- [Man] What's with the way
your batteries worked back then,

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no wonder your lights were dim.

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- [Adam] I do remember
walking up the river and

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at one point I'm finding a
snake floating down towards us,

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or swimming down towards us.

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- [Man] In the dark?

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- [Adam] In the dark, yeah.

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Yeah, going through the jungle
in the dark is a bad idea.

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(people chattering)

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- Yeah. (chuckles)

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- [Woman] You always sorta think that
these things are gonna be there forever.

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- [Man] This is a very
temporary situation.

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If you look at what they're
doing, you wouldn't be hopeful.

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I'm glad I got to see it when I did.

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- [Woman] It feels good
knowing that we got to see it

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in its most natural
state, before it changes.

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(pulleys clinking)

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- [Howard] Anybody ready?

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Okay then, queue up.

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You're gonna need...

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No, no, that's no good.

00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:27.930
You need the black ones for Chad.

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So it's the same as
going down the entrance.

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Everybody will be in a full body harness.

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Now I don't know how high
this water's going to be,

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or even if you've got to swim,

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but we will find out and I'll
pass that information back.

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The ladder's easy, easy, easy.

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Look, it's simple.

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But when you're on there,

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we've got one of the lads called Tuan,

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and he speaks some good English,

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and he'll come up with you
and he'll pull and push.

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- [Woman] Wherever he
needs to put his hands.

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- [Howard] Okay, all right. As
long as you're OK with that.

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He's a bit shy about that so
I said, "Just do as you need."

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- [Woman] Tell him this is life and death.

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(Howard laughs)

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Anything goes. (laughs)

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- Okay, okay.

00:08:08.460 --> 00:08:09.807
That's it, they dress you.

00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.693
I can't even tie my own shoes.

00:08:15.030 --> 00:08:18.546
Oh, God, this is a complex
procedure, isn't it?

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I'm trusting that this is going to work

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and I don't lose my pair
of shoes in the mud.

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- Is that good?

00:08:24.067 --> 00:08:25.170
(helpers laughing)

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Is that all we do?

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Oh no, don't tie them together.
You're a cheeky bugger, you.

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Thank you, Mr. Nui. Thank you.

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That's it. Fashion.

00:08:39.660 --> 00:08:40.980
That's good now?

00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:41.813
That will work?

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(tense music)

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(people chattering)

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(tense music)

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(orchestral music)

00:10:06.741 --> 00:10:10.491
(orchestral music continues)

00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:32.640
- [Man] I mean, it's a cliched phrase,

00:10:32.640 --> 00:10:33.990
but it took my breath away.

00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:42.993
It confounded every
expectation of being in a cave.

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(gentle orchestral music)

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When I was in that cave,

00:11:01.650 --> 00:11:04.133
I saw things...

00:11:04.133 --> 00:11:08.533
That I would not believe
if I saw pictures of.

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It really elicits a
sense of wonder in you,

00:11:22.121 --> 00:11:26.070
which is the closest
feeling that I have had

00:11:26.070 --> 00:11:29.190
to a belief in magic,

00:11:29.190 --> 00:11:31.090
since I was a child.

00:11:43.972 --> 00:11:46.800
(peaceful music)

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You're walking through
an underground world.

00:11:49.650 --> 00:11:51.570
You go through these caverns

00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:54.483
and it doesn't even seem
like you're in a cavern.

00:11:55.410 --> 00:11:58.140
It's pitch black, all's
you got is your headlamps,

00:11:58.140 --> 00:11:59.460
and then you see these dolines

00:11:59.460 --> 00:12:01.830
where you see a rainforest ahead of you,

00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:04.230
or you hear a waterfall beside you,

00:12:04.230 --> 00:12:06.843
and it doesn't even seem
like you're in a cave.

00:12:08.790 --> 00:12:10.530
- I think that's what
was so exceptional to us

00:12:10.530 --> 00:12:14.190
is that you walk into this
giant cave, you look up,

00:12:14.190 --> 00:12:16.293
it's the size of a skyscraper,

00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:20.370
and you're wondering how everybody
hadn't been there before.

00:12:20.370 --> 00:12:21.930
- [Meredith] And I think
part of the reason for that

00:12:21.930 --> 00:12:23.880
is that other places
in the world you go,

00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:26.190
you can sort of start
to see similarities.

00:12:26.190 --> 00:12:29.220
Like you're in Jordan,

00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:31.920
and it actually parts of
it, like the Wadi Rum,

00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:34.020
look like parts of Zion National Park.

00:12:34.020 --> 00:12:36.240
Like there's things that you're
like, "Oh, I haven't been here,

00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.400
but it looks like something
I might have seen before.

00:12:38.400 --> 00:12:39.690
It looks somewhat familiar."

00:12:39.690 --> 00:12:41.760
And Son Doong feels like something
that you've never seen before.

00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:46.380
Like it's just, it's so
unique and spectacular.

00:12:46.380 --> 00:12:47.680
And I think the only way
that we've described it

00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:50.040
is it just doesn't feel like
you're on Planet Earth anymore

00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:51.990
'cause it doesn't feel like
anything else that you've seen.

00:12:51.990 --> 00:12:53.700
- [David] There was
something so alien about it

00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:55.320
from, like I said, being underground

00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.330
and then all of a sudden
you wind your way

00:12:57.330 --> 00:13:00.510
and there's this massive doline
the size of a skyscraper.

00:13:00.510 --> 00:13:01.773
And it's jungle.

00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:05.440
So it was this play of contrasts

00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:10.350
combined with the scale and the mystery

00:13:10.350 --> 00:13:14.130
that was unequaled in anything
that I've seen before.

00:13:14.130 --> 00:13:17.970
- [Jonathan] When I went through it,
there was probably less than 1,000 people,

00:13:17.970 --> 00:13:21.270
maybe less than 2,000
people been through it,

00:13:21.270 --> 00:13:23.820
which is fewer than
gone up Mount Everest.

00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:25.560
It's of interest to cavers,

00:13:25.560 --> 00:13:28.050
but it's gonna be of
interest to everybody

00:13:28.050 --> 00:13:32.240
because it's so dramatic
and so remarkable, you know?

00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.714
You can't describe it.

00:13:34.714 --> 00:13:38.149
- [Meredith] It almost seems like
something that was created with CG

00:13:38.149 --> 00:13:39.810
'cause it doesn't feel like something

00:13:39.810 --> 00:13:42.390
that should be on Planet Earth.

00:13:42.390 --> 00:13:43.740
The whole experience is very cinematic.

00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:45.600
I mean, thinking in terms of movies now

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:47.100
because that's just
what I do for a living.

00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:49.620
We try to build these worlds on screen

00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:51.600
that makes you wanna go there.

00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:52.890
And here I am.

00:13:52.890 --> 00:13:55.740
I feel like I've stepped
through the screen, I guess,

00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.860
and I'm in one of these
worlds that someone's created.

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:00.840
- [Man] In Hollywood,
everything is about artifice.

00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:05.190
So the backdrops, granted are
meant to be larger than life

00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:07.980
and take you to a place that's unique

00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:09.780
or not even of this Earth.

00:14:09.780 --> 00:14:12.720
And so to go into a place on this Earth

00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:14.460
like the Son Doong Cave,

00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:16.620
and it's not a backdrop,
it's actually real,

00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:19.800
and there's no optical
illusion or depth perception

00:14:19.800 --> 00:14:21.270
in the painting behind you,

00:14:21.270 --> 00:14:22.773
in fact, it's real life.

00:14:23.790 --> 00:14:25.903
- [Darryl] So if you look
at a map of Hang Son Doong,

00:14:25.903 --> 00:14:30.360
one of the most obvious
features, as a geomorphologist,

00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:31.590
or as a geologist at least,

00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:33.720
is how straight the cave is.

00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.630
It doesn't have tributary
passages coming in

00:14:36.630 --> 00:14:37.530
and joining together.

00:14:37.530 --> 00:14:38.940
It doesn't have any mazes.

00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.000
It's just a straight line,
almost due north/south.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:45.390
And that's because the cave
formed along a fault line.

00:14:45.390 --> 00:14:48.630
So that fault slipped
and it weakened the rock

00:14:48.630 --> 00:14:49.767
and it cracked the rock there,

00:14:49.767 --> 00:14:53.227
and so that gives a path
for water to flow down.

00:14:53.227 --> 00:14:54.863
- [Adam] Son Doong's very big

00:14:54.863 --> 00:14:57.120
because the limestone is very pure,

00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.830
so it's very easy to dissolve.

00:14:58.830 --> 00:15:02.700
And in this part of Vietnam,
we get huge amounts of water.

00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:04.469
In order for Son Doong to form,

00:15:04.469 --> 00:15:07.980
there must have been a
considerable amount of rain falling

00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:12.270
over the 4 million years
that Son Doong has been there

00:15:12.270 --> 00:15:13.500
as a cave.

00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:15.480
We've taken water samples

00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:17.497
and there's nothing
special about the water.

00:15:17.497 --> 00:15:19.770
It is the same mineral content

00:15:19.770 --> 00:15:22.173
as you'd find in many other caves.

00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:25.650
- [Howard] The thing about limestone

00:15:25.650 --> 00:15:27.660
is that because it's everywhere,

00:15:27.660 --> 00:15:30.990
you get a lot of rain falling
or a lot streams and rivers,

00:15:30.990 --> 00:15:33.660
but they'll just disappear
into small cracks.

00:15:33.660 --> 00:15:36.090
But what this area has got,
which makes it also unique,

00:15:36.090 --> 00:15:38.970
it's got a non-limestone area

00:15:38.970 --> 00:15:41.490
which is a big catchment for water.

00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:45.630
So all small streams join
together, form a river,

00:15:45.630 --> 00:15:47.130
and hit the limestone massif.

00:15:47.130 --> 00:15:49.443
And that's when you're
going to get big caves.

00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:51.810
At some time in its life,

00:15:51.810 --> 00:15:55.470
Son Doong would've been a lot
bigger than what it is now.

00:15:55.470 --> 00:15:56.940
And there's only sections of the cave

00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.553
that show its immense height and width.

00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:02.370
I'll give you an example
of a sort of scale,

00:16:02.370 --> 00:16:04.080
and it's not one of the largest parts.

00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.970
It's just one that we've
measured quite accurately.

00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:08.310
It's a relatively small
part of Son Doong.

00:16:08.310 --> 00:16:09.630
And that's the first camp,

00:16:09.630 --> 00:16:11.580
which is on the level playing fields.

00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:13.860
This is one nice flat area of sand

00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:15.870
where we base our first camp.

00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:20.870
And we know it's over 110
meters down to the river there.

00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.360
So it's 110 meters from
the camp down to the river.

00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:27.570
And up is around 90 meters to the roof.

00:16:27.570 --> 00:16:29.490
It's just over 100 meters wide.

00:16:29.490 --> 00:16:33.270
And we know this will comfortably
fit a large city block.

00:16:33.270 --> 00:16:36.270
Again, which I say, is one of
the smaller parts of the cave.

00:16:36.270 --> 00:16:39.390
So it gives you some
idea of the dimensions.

00:16:39.390 --> 00:16:42.000
In certain sections of the
cave, such as Doline 1,

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.320
it's immensely high.

00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:47.430
So from the river to the
very top is 449 meters.

00:16:47.430 --> 00:16:49.620
So that's the tallest part of the cave.

00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:52.110
The sections of the cave
that are incredibly wide,

00:16:52.110 --> 00:16:56.550
such as in Doline 2,
which is 175 meters wide.

00:16:56.550 --> 00:16:58.440
And the cliffs there
from the top of the hill

00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.357
that you climb up in Doline 2

00:17:00.357 --> 00:17:03.210
are 252 meters to the surface.

00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:07.380
The highest part of the dark
underground part of the cave

00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:09.150
is the Great Wall of Vietnam.

00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:12.510
And that is 199.98 meters,

00:17:12.510 --> 00:17:15.363
to which, I think it's
safe to say, is 200 meters.

00:17:15.363 --> 00:17:17.370
It's very difficult to see the roof

00:17:17.370 --> 00:17:19.500
in that part of the cave.

00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:23.130
- [Helen] Caves are one of
the last big wildernesses

00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:24.420
left in the world.

00:17:24.420 --> 00:17:27.840
And cave exploration is one
of the few big adventures

00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:29.340
left on this planet.

00:17:29.340 --> 00:17:31.470
You never know what you will find.

00:17:31.470 --> 00:17:36.090
And it can be kissing frogs
and not finding any princes,

00:17:36.090 --> 00:17:37.050
or it can be kissing a frog

00:17:37.050 --> 00:17:39.720
and then going, "Oh,
yeah, this is the one."

00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:41.970
And that's it.

00:17:41.970 --> 00:17:43.680
It's unpredictable.

00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:45.660
And that's exactly what Son Doong was

00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.950
and exactly what you still get now

00:17:46.950 --> 00:17:49.020
with exploring caves for the first time.

00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:52.320
- [Bill] I wanted to be an
astronaut ever since I was a kid.

00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:55.680
And that dream has
kind of frittered away

00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.980
with the stalling of the
government space programs.

00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:03.330
But right now, to be honest
with you, this is where it's at.

00:18:03.330 --> 00:18:06.360
This is where true exploration
is at on this planet.

00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:08.049
You know, you can say, "Oh,
it's just a hole on the ground."

00:18:08.049 --> 00:18:12.424
Well, I'll tell you what. You go try to
get down and see how far you can get.

00:18:12.424 --> 00:18:15.000
It takes some very
serious people to do it.

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.250
There is no place
on this planet right now

00:18:17.250 --> 00:18:19.170
that is completely unexplored,

00:18:19.170 --> 00:18:21.180
except for these places

00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.890
that we're talking about underground.

00:18:22.890 --> 00:18:27.210
And so where is the last
terrestrial frontier?

00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:28.873
It is that way.

00:18:28.873 --> 00:18:33.857
(comic music)

00:18:39.150 --> 00:18:42.340
- [Man] Come on Kay...Mark,
just whizz through.

00:18:44.182 --> 00:18:47.117
You'd get a lorry through there!

00:18:47.117 --> 00:18:48.597
Come on.

00:18:48.597 --> 00:18:52.225
- (grunts) I'm not...

00:18:52.225 --> 00:18:54.066
I'm not gonna get through here.

00:18:56.904 --> 00:19:00.670
(groans) Jess...you're
gonna have to pull me out.

00:19:00.670 --> 00:19:02.211
[Jess] What?!

00:19:03.810 --> 00:19:07.350
- [Howard] To most people,
caves are quite negative.

00:19:07.350 --> 00:19:09.870
People think they are very
small, they're squalid,

00:19:09.870 --> 00:19:12.180
very cold, dark, and dank.

00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:16.708
And there are some caves, quite
rarely, that are like that.

00:19:16.708 --> 00:19:18.330
Not in Vietnam, it seems.

00:19:18.330 --> 00:19:20.460
Vietnam's incredibly fortunate.

00:19:20.460 --> 00:19:23.880
The vast majority of the
caves are lovely and warm,

00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:25.980
quite bright, beautiful
formations throughout,

00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:28.110
and obviously a lot
larger than anywhere.

00:19:28.110 --> 00:19:29.223
So very popular.

00:19:30.120 --> 00:19:33.690
It's very rare where you can
find the longest, the deepest,

00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:35.177
or the biggest in your life.

00:19:35.177 --> 00:19:37.830
In the '50s, obviously the
Commonwealth and the Brits,

00:19:37.830 --> 00:19:39.630
we were still into exploration.

00:19:39.630 --> 00:19:42.330
Brits have been really
good at exploring things

00:19:42.330 --> 00:19:43.163
around the world.

00:19:43.163 --> 00:19:44.070
They seem to have that desire

00:19:44.070 --> 00:19:45.960
to go a place where nobody have been.

00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:48.690
Caves have always been
popular when there's a rescue.

00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:50.280
A cave's a cave to the press,

00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:52.890
and they're only interested
in the sensationalism

00:19:52.890 --> 00:19:56.100
of people trapped in
a dark, confined place

00:19:56.100 --> 00:19:57.900
behind a large body of water.

00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:59.220
And that's what appeals.

00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:02.310
The gory side of caving,
rather than the splendor.

00:20:02.310 --> 00:20:05.070
We're trying to change
the face of caving,

00:20:05.070 --> 00:20:08.490
in that I'd like it promoted
in a much more positive light

00:20:08.490 --> 00:20:12.090
and not just the sensational
bit when people get rescued.

00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:16.943
I doubt if there's ever going to be
another larger cave than Son Doong.

00:20:16.943 --> 00:20:19.470
Geologically,
it's just the perfect size.

00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:22.350
But I hope when people visit Son Doong,

00:20:22.350 --> 00:20:25.260
they take with them a lot
more than that little tick box

00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:27.600
of "I visited the world's biggest cave,"

00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:30.600
because it is so unique and special.

00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:33.750
- [Jonathan] It's very, very powerful.

00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:34.860
You know, it's very powerful,

00:20:34.860 --> 00:20:36.610
that cave and the experience of it.

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.990
And I think you will see
it being less powerful

00:20:39.990 --> 00:20:43.110
if it becomes too easy.

00:20:43.110 --> 00:20:44.640
The world is pretty well trampled,

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.820
so getting to a place that
still has some essence

00:20:47.820 --> 00:20:49.023
becomes a mission.

00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:52.230
Just to get to the mouth of the cave,

00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:55.050
you're two days or a
day and a half into it.

00:20:55.050 --> 00:20:57.480
And then you're three days
from anything,

00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.223
any support system at all.

00:21:02.190 --> 00:21:04.560
- [Howard] In the area, which
is the whole karst region,

00:21:04.560 --> 00:21:06.390
the Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park,

00:21:06.390 --> 00:21:08.700
we've covered about 30% of the area.

00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:11.583
So 70% is still unexplored.

00:21:13.815 --> 00:21:15.240
Without the local people,

00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.610
very few of these caves
would've been found.

00:21:17.610 --> 00:21:20.940
In fact, of the 350
caves that we've explored

00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:22.350
in Quang Binh alone,

00:21:22.350 --> 00:21:23.183
there are less than 10

00:21:23.183 --> 00:21:26.013
that we've actually
explored by ourselves.

00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:29.373
So they led us to 99% of all the caves

00:21:29.373 --> 00:21:30.870
that have been discovered here.

00:21:30.870 --> 00:21:33.960
And they did all the hard work
finding the entrances for us.

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:35.814
And they're still doing it this day.

00:21:35.814 --> 00:21:39.689
(people chattering)

00:21:54.919 --> 00:21:57.836
(ground crunching)

00:22:01.939 --> 00:22:04.689
(water swishing)

00:22:06.249 --> 00:22:09.249
(people chattering)

00:23:06.144 --> 00:23:09.144
(people chattering)

00:24:11.527 --> 00:24:14.277
(birds chirping)

00:24:16.888 --> 00:24:19.888
(people chattering)

00:24:56.122 --> 00:25:01.122
(atmospheric rumbling)
(wind whooshing)

00:25:16.784 --> 00:25:19.284
(gentle piano music)

00:25:35.914 --> 00:25:38.831
(orchestral music)

00:26:19.721 --> 00:26:21.858
(pans sizzling)
(people chattering)

00:26:21.858 --> 00:26:24.941
(gentle piano music)

00:26:58.107 --> 00:27:02.190
(people chattering and laughing)

00:27:39.191 --> 00:27:43.274
(people chattering and laughing)

00:28:01.290 --> 00:28:05.207
(gentle piano music continues)

00:28:19.445 --> 00:28:21.401
(traffic humming)

00:28:21.401 --> 00:28:26.401
(horns tooting)
(sirens wailing)

00:28:39.185 --> 00:28:41.435
- [Huong] It was scary to...

00:28:44.760 --> 00:28:45.810
I think for me,

00:28:45.810 --> 00:28:50.810
it was both scary and
inspiring to find a cause.

00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.300
My whole life I had been
looking for something

00:28:57.300 --> 00:29:00.060
that could make me feel like
when I'm with Save Son Doong.

00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:03.990
Like something that make me
feel so passionate about.

00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:07.802
Something that make me feel
like I can die for this.

00:29:07.802 --> 00:29:10.803
And Save Son Doong gave me that sense.

00:29:16.061 --> 00:29:18.811
(traffic roaring)

00:29:23.228 --> 00:29:25.460
(people chattering)

00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:29.700
(gentle electronic music)

00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:31.500
I would like to ask you guys

00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:32.940
to close your eyes for a little bit

00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:34.833
and keep them closed for me, please.

00:29:36.810 --> 00:29:38.913
Now, what do you see?

00:29:40.626 --> 00:29:44.866
Darkness, emptiness, nothing?

00:29:46.050 --> 00:29:48.030
Well, please open your eyes again

00:29:48.030 --> 00:29:50.820
and let me tell you about my experience

00:29:50.820 --> 00:29:53.760
seeing what could be
considered absolute darkness.

00:29:53.760 --> 00:29:55.590
And my experience with absolute darkness

00:29:55.590 --> 00:29:59.280
happened at this beautiful
place, Son Doong cave.

00:29:59.280 --> 00:30:02.443
The world's largest underground kingdom.

00:30:02.443 --> 00:30:05.276
(magical music)

00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:09.087
As a child, I loved reading books.

00:30:09.087 --> 00:30:13.170
And some of the first books
that sparked the interest

00:30:13.170 --> 00:30:17.927
of exploring the world in
me was those by Jules Verne.

00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:25.773
I loved all of them.

00:30:26.966 --> 00:30:29.197
"20,000 Leagues Under the Sea,"

00:30:29.197 --> 00:30:31.110
"Eighty Days Around the World,"

00:30:31.110 --> 00:30:34.290
and "Journey to the Center of the Earth."

00:30:34.290 --> 00:30:37.740
Now one interesting thing
about Jules Verne's books

00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.440
is that all of them
eventually become true.

00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.180
Nowadays we have the submarine.

00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:44.760
We can easily travel around the globe

00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:47.280
in way less than 80 days.

00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:51.450
But the only thing that
had not become true,

00:30:51.450 --> 00:30:52.530
before Son Doong,

00:30:52.530 --> 00:30:54.640
was "Journey to the Center of the Earth."

00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.390
And Son Doong, up 'til
now, is the only thing

00:30:57.390 --> 00:30:59.940
that can give us the closest sense

00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:01.293
to what the book described.

00:31:02.370 --> 00:31:04.920
In the book, you have a
completely different world

00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.870
that exists parallel to our
world underneath our feet.

00:31:09.870 --> 00:31:14.820
And that world has animals and plants

00:31:14.820 --> 00:31:18.060
that used to exist on Earth.

00:31:18.060 --> 00:31:21.510
But because of the change
in the environment,

00:31:21.510 --> 00:31:24.420
because of human beings, et cetera,

00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:26.837
they now only exist in a different world.

00:31:26.837 --> 00:31:29.920
And that world, to me, is Son Doong.

00:31:32.731 --> 00:31:35.981
(tense music)

00:31:39.270 --> 00:31:41.160
The place that I remember the most

00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.860
is a place that had
never been photographed

00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:45.720
because it's too dark.

00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:47.580
- [Howard] Do you want to
experience total darkness?

00:31:47.580 --> 00:31:50.673
- [Huong] Howard asked all of
us to turn off our headlamp.

00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.960
And my immediate reaction
was I felt suffocated.

00:31:57.210 --> 00:31:58.233
I couldn't breathe.

00:31:58.233 --> 00:32:00.690
I was overwhelmed with the darkness.

00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:03.930
Putting my hands in front
of me, I couldn't see them.

00:32:03.930 --> 00:32:05.160
Looking down to my feet,

00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:07.890
I couldn't see where I was standing on.

00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:09.870
And I thought to myself,

00:32:09.870 --> 00:32:13.563
this is probably what I
would feel like when I die,

00:32:14.580 --> 00:32:17.913
when my soul is still
there, but my body's gone.

00:32:20.100 --> 00:32:22.350
I imagine we all have tried to envision

00:32:22.350 --> 00:32:24.690
how it felt like when we died.

00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:27.810
When our conscience still
aware of everything,

00:32:27.810 --> 00:32:30.273
but our body just doesn't exist anymore.

00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.480
I was scared at first,

00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:36.570
but then, later on, I was more impressed

00:32:36.570 --> 00:32:40.290
with the idea that nature
is just so massive,

00:32:40.290 --> 00:32:43.944
its darkness can swallow
us basically anytime.

00:32:43.944 --> 00:32:48.944
(tense music)
(atmospheric rumbling)

00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:59.970
I remember, it was probably
the third day of my trip

00:32:59.970 --> 00:33:03.330
and we all just got to
our campsite at the time,

00:33:03.330 --> 00:33:06.303
and suddenly Howard called me aside.

00:33:07.260 --> 00:33:08.850
With teary eyes,

00:33:08.850 --> 00:33:12.533
he told me that he regretted
discovering Son Doong.

00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.110
Son Doong was fine on its own.

00:33:16.110 --> 00:33:17.670
But now that it's open to public,

00:33:17.670 --> 00:33:19.710
people want to exploit it for money.

00:33:19.710 --> 00:33:22.500
And as much as he liked
to keep the place safe

00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.230
by only bringing in the
most respectful people,

00:33:25.230 --> 00:33:26.250
trekking in small groups,

00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:28.470
and capped it at a few 100 a year,

00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:30.780
there's now a construction conglomerate

00:33:30.780 --> 00:33:33.240
that was trying to build a cable car

00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.561
which is going to bring
in 1,000 people per hour.

00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:41.670
Going from a few 100 a
year to 1,000 an hour,

00:33:42.857 --> 00:33:45.010
that would kill Son Doong.

00:33:46.093 --> 00:33:48.926
(heartfelt music)

00:34:07.020 --> 00:34:11.449
(construction banging)
(sirens wailing)

00:34:11.449 --> 00:34:14.520
- [Bill] Vietnam has a very patchy record

00:34:14.520 --> 00:34:17.460
of environmental protection.

00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:21.030
Yes, there are established national parks.

00:34:21.030 --> 00:34:25.320
Yes, there are laws and there
are environmental groups

00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:27.540
that are doing their best,

00:34:27.540 --> 00:34:30.720
but when it comes to the real competition

00:34:30.720 --> 00:34:34.170
between economic interests
and the environment,

00:34:34.170 --> 00:34:37.230
by and large, the economic interests win.

00:34:37.230 --> 00:34:39.810
And you've seen some very special places

00:34:39.810 --> 00:34:43.688
that have been ruined,
really, by overdevelopment.

00:34:43.688 --> 00:34:45.840
Ha Long Bay is the classic example.

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.462
It's picture-postcard beautiful,

00:34:47.462 --> 00:34:48.960
or at least it should be,

00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.690
but the degree of development

00:34:51.690 --> 00:34:55.260
and the lack of concern for
the consequences of development

00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:59.430
have been shocking in terms
of pollution and destruction

00:34:59.430 --> 00:35:01.590
of the visual environment.

00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:03.997
Another example would be
the island of Phu Quoc

00:35:03.997 --> 00:35:06.300
at the other end of the country,
right down in the south.

00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:09.930
Once a prison island, remote, unspoiled.

00:35:09.930 --> 00:35:13.530
Now it's turning into the
Torremolinos of Vietnam, really.

00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:15.420
It's a massive development.

00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:18.450
Far too intensive for the
amount of space there is.

00:35:18.450 --> 00:35:21.690
Unable to process the
amount of sewage and waste

00:35:21.690 --> 00:35:22.523
and all the rest of it.

00:35:22.523 --> 00:35:25.740
It's just becoming a nightmare, really.

00:35:25.740 --> 00:35:28.440
Vietnam's economic growth
has been pretty rapid

00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.340
by any standards.

00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:30.930
I mean, it only looks weak

00:35:30.930 --> 00:35:33.390
when you compare it, say,
to China, for example.

00:35:33.390 --> 00:35:37.110
I think that the pressures to develop

00:35:37.110 --> 00:35:38.970
are getting ever stronger.

00:35:38.970 --> 00:35:42.450
A lot of this growth is being
driven by big conglomerates

00:35:42.450 --> 00:35:45.030
and companies like Vingroup or Sun Group,

00:35:45.030 --> 00:35:47.040
which ostensibly are private sector

00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:49.740
but with a lot of state
connection and so forth.

00:35:49.740 --> 00:35:51.810
And we're seeing these big name groups

00:35:51.810 --> 00:35:54.270
driving a lot of the
real estate developments.

00:35:54.270 --> 00:35:57.900
And in some places, the
power of these groups

00:35:57.900 --> 00:35:59.940
rivals that of the Communist Party.

00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:02.190
They have money, they have connections.

00:36:02.190 --> 00:36:04.920
They can bring jobs and influence

00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.230
into sometimes relatively poor provinces,

00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:10.620
and it's very hard for those officials,

00:36:10.620 --> 00:36:13.410
even if they wish to,
to resist the pressure.

00:36:13.410 --> 00:36:17.760
- [Giang] The big corporation
in Vietnam are very powerful.

00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.670
In my writing, I touch a number of themes,

00:36:20.670 --> 00:36:23.100
and mostly they resonate pretty well

00:36:23.100 --> 00:36:25.650
and they are well-received by the public.

00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:30.513
But the themes which
receive the most pushback,

00:36:31.350 --> 00:36:33.600
sometimes very hostile,

00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:37.620
relates to consumerism, tourism,
sustainable development,

00:36:37.620 --> 00:36:38.880
and things like that.

00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.730
Especially when I talk
about Son Doong Cave

00:36:41.730 --> 00:36:45.120
or the overdevelopment of
tourism in other places,

00:36:45.120 --> 00:36:47.400
and there will be a very strong fraction,

00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:48.660
very large fraction,

00:36:48.660 --> 00:36:52.470
of people pushing back and
saying we need development

00:36:52.470 --> 00:36:55.080
and this is a good thing for the country.

00:36:55.080 --> 00:36:59.760
And you can apply that to
a lot of social phenomena,

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.710
social problems we see in Vietnam

00:37:01.710 --> 00:37:03.597
in other part of the world, right?

00:37:03.597 --> 00:37:07.050
The drive for profit

00:37:07.050 --> 00:37:10.710
without any consideration
of the social cost

00:37:10.710 --> 00:37:13.413
and environmental cost.
The lack of transparency,

00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.480
the lack of freedom of
expression right now,

00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:18.720
the corruption, you know.

00:37:18.720 --> 00:37:23.010
So here is the clash of
the two different attitudes

00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:28.010
and understanding of how
society should go forwards.

00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:33.150
- [Bill] It's very
difficult to talk openly

00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:36.150
inside the country about
the systematic problems

00:37:36.150 --> 00:37:38.010
with environmental protection.

00:37:38.010 --> 00:37:39.690
You can talk about habitat loss,

00:37:39.690 --> 00:37:41.610
you can talk about preserving species,

00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:44.940
and you can talk about trying
to stop wildlife trading

00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:46.710
and endangered species being trafficked.

00:37:46.710 --> 00:37:49.856
But to actually say that
big economic interests

00:37:49.856 --> 00:37:53.760
are conspiring with
local political interests

00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.080
to destroy the environment,

00:37:55.080 --> 00:37:56.790
that is very, very difficult

00:37:56.790 --> 00:37:59.100
because you're trampling
on so many people's toes.

00:37:59.100 --> 00:38:01.230
You're trampling on the
interest of the business,

00:38:01.230 --> 00:38:02.820
the reputation of the officials,

00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:04.560
and the legitimacy of the Communist Party,

00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:06.900
and that really starts
to get you into trouble.

00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.870
- [Huong] There were reports
from as early as 2012

00:38:09.870 --> 00:38:12.510
that the government was
exploring the possibility

00:38:12.510 --> 00:38:14.823
of building a cable car into Son Doong.

00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.100
Obviously, these discussions
took place behind closed doors.

00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:22.140
But a UNESCO report from around that time

00:38:22.140 --> 00:38:25.590
warned about this and the
damage it would cause.

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:27.990
Then in October 2014,

00:38:27.990 --> 00:38:30.960
plans for the cable car
were officially unveiled.

00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.550
The head of Quang Binh Province

00:38:32.550 --> 00:38:35.520
announced at a press conference
that they had contracted

00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:39.300
a large real estate
developer to begin surveying.

00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:42.240
Vietnam has a track record
for building cable cars

00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:44.250
in places of natural beauty.

00:38:44.250 --> 00:38:47.460
There is a walkway in Da
Nang and another in Da Lat,

00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:49.020
but this is the first project

00:38:49.020 --> 00:38:52.560
which met with any kind
of significant opposition.

00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:55.980
A petition opposing the cable
car construction was set up,

00:38:55.980 --> 00:39:00.150
which got over 50,000
signatures in less than a week.

00:39:00.150 --> 00:39:03.210
In response to this, a second
press conference was called,

00:39:03.210 --> 00:39:07.050
which was essentially an
exercise in damage limitation.

00:39:07.050 --> 00:39:09.750
And after this, things went dark.

00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:13.230
The Vietnamese people are
usually the last to know

00:39:13.230 --> 00:39:14.730
what the government is planning.

00:39:14.730 --> 00:39:17.700
And it was clear that, despite
opposition to the project,

00:39:17.700 --> 00:39:20.850
plans were still being
drawn behind closed doors.

00:39:20.850 --> 00:39:25.793
So in November 2014, I
co-founded Save Son Doong.

00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:30.710
At the beginning, none
of us knew what to do.

00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:36.360
None of us had run a
social campaign before.

00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.070
So we try different things.

00:39:38.070 --> 00:39:41.220
Our main goal back then,
but also until now,

00:39:41.220 --> 00:39:42.660
was to raise awareness.

00:39:42.660 --> 00:39:45.960
If I try to make impact,
I cannot do it by myself.

00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.980
I need people, and social
media allows us to do that.

00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:53.310
I don't remember exactly
who came up with the idea

00:39:53.310 --> 00:39:57.000
of asking people to hold
a Save Son Doong sign

00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.700
and take a picture and send to us.

00:39:59.700 --> 00:40:02.010
But it was one of the very first,

00:40:02.010 --> 00:40:03.630
and probably still until now,

00:40:03.630 --> 00:40:07.410
one of the most successful
initiatives that we did.

00:40:07.410 --> 00:40:08.940
The idea is very simple.

00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:12.150
Most people stand
somewhere in natural beauty

00:40:12.150 --> 00:40:14.963
and you hold up a sign
that says Save Son Doong

00:40:14.963 --> 00:40:17.070
and you take a picture.

00:40:17.070 --> 00:40:20.340
I expected to receive a lot of photos,

00:40:20.340 --> 00:40:22.890
but I thought it would
be mainly from Vietnam.

00:40:22.890 --> 00:40:25.860
I really did not expect that
I would get so many photos

00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:28.260
from foreigners around the world.

00:40:28.260 --> 00:40:30.840
One of the very first photos we received

00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:32.940
was from a group of students.

00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:34.800
And you could see they're
standing in a class

00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.230
and they had a rope around their neck

00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:40.110
that looks like a cable car.

00:40:40.110 --> 00:40:42.450
That sent a very strong
message, obviously.

00:40:42.450 --> 00:40:45.150
We got some photos from places far away

00:40:45.150 --> 00:40:50.040
that I didn't expect that we could
get photos from, like Israel.

00:40:50.040 --> 00:40:53.010
Most importantly,
besides the photo itself,

00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:57.300
the messages that people
include also hit home very hard.

00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:01.740
They talked about how Son
Doong is a place so far away

00:41:01.740 --> 00:41:04.410
that they may never, ever in their life

00:41:04.410 --> 00:41:06.180
get to see by their own eyes,

00:41:06.180 --> 00:41:09.240
but it resonates with things that happen

00:41:09.240 --> 00:41:10.911
in their own countries.

00:41:12.390 --> 00:41:15.030
Receiving thousand and thousand of photos

00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:17.280
from people from around the world

00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:20.190
definitely made me feel
overwhelmed at first.

00:41:20.190 --> 00:41:21.780
But, more importantly,

00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:25.260
it reconfirmed to me that
what I'm doing is not crazy,

00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:27.150
and perhaps at the end of the day,

00:41:27.150 --> 00:41:28.500
it's the right thing to do.

00:41:34.176 --> 00:41:36.690
(siren wailing)

00:41:36.690 --> 00:41:38.910
As we were filming,

00:41:38.910 --> 00:41:41.910
one of my friends holding
up the Save Son Doong sign

00:41:41.910 --> 00:41:43.983
on the other side of the street earlier,

00:41:45.210 --> 00:41:48.090
somebody passed by and stopped

00:41:48.090 --> 00:41:50.470
and claimed to be an undercover cop

00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:54.270
and asking my friend, what was she doing?

00:41:54.270 --> 00:41:55.410
And as she was explaining

00:41:55.410 --> 00:41:58.350
that this is for environmental protection,

00:41:58.350 --> 00:42:01.470
he said that if she
continues to stand in public

00:42:01.470 --> 00:42:04.860
with her Save Son Doong
sign, she would be arrested.

00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:07.350
She would be brought
to the police station.

00:42:07.350 --> 00:42:12.350
This is indicative of
how activism in Vietnam

00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:14.130
can be oppressed.

00:42:14.130 --> 00:42:16.770
Even the smaller sign,

00:42:16.770 --> 00:42:20.580
of holding a sign of
something completely peaceful,

00:42:20.580 --> 00:42:24.480
like Save Son Doong, that
does not disturb anybody,

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:26.372
can be considered a crime.

00:42:26.372 --> 00:42:29.205
(people shouting)

00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:43.353
- [Bill] Protest in general
in Vietnam is not welcome.

00:42:45.810 --> 00:42:49.020
The Party is paranoid
that a demonstration,

00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:51.450
even about pollution of the sea,

00:42:51.450 --> 00:42:53.460
could snowball into something else

00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:56.460
that other grievances
could be linked to it.

00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:58.290
That the fact that there
are simply large numbers

00:42:58.290 --> 00:42:59.250
of people on the streets

00:42:59.250 --> 00:43:01.470
could encourage other people
to come onto the streets

00:43:01.470 --> 00:43:03.510
and we'd end up with some kind of

00:43:03.510 --> 00:43:05.340
what they would call a color revolution,

00:43:05.340 --> 00:43:07.710
based on the idea of things
that happened in Eastern Europe

00:43:07.710 --> 00:43:08.543
a few years ago.

00:43:08.543 --> 00:43:12.003
- [Napoleon] I have made
a terrible discovery.

00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:17.100
There are traitors among us.

00:43:17.100 --> 00:43:18.870
- [Bill] The Communist
Party's number one rule

00:43:18.870 --> 00:43:20.820
is that the Communist
Party should rule Vietnam,

00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:24.030
and that anything which
threatens a Communist Party rule

00:43:24.030 --> 00:43:25.380
needs to be squashed.

00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:27.900
And that could be when
corruption gets to the point

00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:29.370
that it gets out of control.

00:43:29.370 --> 00:43:31.590
It could be dissident religious movement.

00:43:31.590 --> 00:43:33.570
It could be a local
environmental campaign.

00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:35.340
If it starts to actually undermine

00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:37.080
the principles of Communist Party rule,

00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:37.913
it's a threat.

00:43:37.913 --> 00:43:40.080
There's a fear that if the Communist Party

00:43:40.080 --> 00:43:41.730
just starts to give a little bit,

00:43:41.730 --> 00:43:44.070
then it'll start to unravel.

00:43:44.070 --> 00:43:46.020
That's certainly the view
of a part of the system,

00:43:46.020 --> 00:43:47.070
but it's the part of the system

00:43:47.070 --> 00:43:50.370
that controls the levers
of the security services.

00:43:50.370 --> 00:43:55.370
And if you start to say that
the problems that we are facing

00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.050
or the problems which exist somewhere

00:43:58.050 --> 00:44:00.000
are because of Communist Party rule,

00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.160
then you become a dissident.

00:44:02.160 --> 00:44:04.200
To be a dissident in Vietnam,

00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:06.750
you are putting yourself beyond the limit

00:44:06.750 --> 00:44:08.700
of what's acceptable
to the Communist Party

00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:09.660
and you get into trouble.

00:44:09.660 --> 00:44:11.581
And you can get into serious trouble.

00:44:11.581 --> 00:44:14.164
(dogs barking)

00:44:15.330 --> 00:44:19.200
What the party will do is not
necessarily arrest everybody

00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:20.220
who goes to a demonstration,

00:44:20.220 --> 00:44:22.920
but they will try to work
out who are the key leaders

00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.440
and they will try to work out
who might be having contact

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.800
with groups based overseas
or just groups internally,

00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:30.720
and they will try and pick on those people

00:44:30.720 --> 00:44:33.431
and then hope that the others
will just sort of calm down.

00:44:33.431 --> 00:44:37.680
(intense music)
(dogs barking)

00:44:37.680 --> 00:44:40.680
(sounds of death)

00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:43.350
But you also have a system of surveillance

00:44:43.350 --> 00:44:45.390
which comes right down to
the neighborhood level,

00:44:45.390 --> 00:44:49.260
where the authorities can
intervene against individuals.

00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:51.750
You will be invited to the police station.

00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:54.990
You will have long working
sessions with the secret police.

00:44:54.990 --> 00:44:56.460
Your businesses may be targeted.

00:44:56.460 --> 00:44:59.577
Your friends may be told all
kinds of rumors about you.

00:44:59.577 --> 00:45:02.970
You might find that your
property is damaged,

00:45:02.970 --> 00:45:04.890
or you have people watching your house.

00:45:04.890 --> 00:45:06.450
And at the very worst extreme,

00:45:06.450 --> 00:45:08.970
you might actually find
yourself beaten up.

00:45:08.970 --> 00:45:10.500
And then if you still
don't get the message,

00:45:10.500 --> 00:45:13.383
then you might be taken
to court and jailed.

00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:20.430
- [Interviewer] So the
stakes are pretty high?

00:45:20.430 --> 00:45:23.340
- Yeah, I mean, to be a
real dissident in Vietnam

00:45:23.340 --> 00:45:26.910
takes a real degree of dedication.

00:45:26.910 --> 00:45:28.740
And I think that's why

00:45:28.740 --> 00:45:31.140
the dissidents that you find in Vietnam

00:45:31.140 --> 00:45:32.730
tend to be quite difficult people.

00:45:32.730 --> 00:45:35.700
They're the people who won't just

00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:39.030
do the sensible thing and
calm down and be quiet.

00:45:39.030 --> 00:45:42.180
They're people who are
really fired up about things.

00:45:42.180 --> 00:45:45.960
- [Huong] A lot of governmental
officers in Vietnam

00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.960
compare Son Doong to a sleeping
beauty hidden in the jungle,

00:45:51.720 --> 00:45:55.713
and now is the time for the
prince to come and wake her up.

00:45:56.730 --> 00:46:00.300
Well, I had always had
a very different view

00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:02.280
on that "Sleeping Beauty" story.

00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.740
Like if I were the princess,
I would be very pissed

00:46:04.740 --> 00:46:08.100
if somebody come and wake me
up in the middle of my dream.

00:46:08.100 --> 00:46:11.130
If I'm sleeping, I deserve
the right to sleep.

00:46:11.130 --> 00:46:13.620
So if Son Doong is being so peaceful,

00:46:13.620 --> 00:46:16.950
who are we to decide that it is now time

00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:19.140
for us to come and change this place

00:46:19.140 --> 00:46:21.663
and, quote, unquote, develop this place?

00:46:36.330 --> 00:46:38.640
The ultimate purpose of Save Son Doong

00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:41.760
is not to challenge the government.

00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:45.300
We made it very clear within
our team from the beginning

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:50.300
that this is an environmental campaign.

00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.500
We don't wanna turn it
into a political campaign.

00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:56.070
And even though a lot of people
try to politicize our cause,

00:46:56.070 --> 00:46:57.420
we make it very clear

00:46:57.420 --> 00:47:00.420
that we believe the government of Vietnam

00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:03.990
as well as Vietnamese people
can make the best choice,

00:47:03.990 --> 00:47:06.300
can make the most informed decisions

00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:08.820
when they have the information.

00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:13.470
So our purpose is trying our
best to provide the evidence,

00:47:13.470 --> 00:47:15.630
the scientific proof to the government

00:47:15.630 --> 00:47:19.080
so that they can make the
best decisions for Vietnam.

00:47:19.080 --> 00:47:23.073
The cable car development
plan was an open secret.

00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:27.540
Anybody who's involved in it denied it,

00:47:27.540 --> 00:47:30.780
but we obtained clear
evidence that it was going on.

00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.630
On April 24th 2017,

00:47:33.630 --> 00:47:36.270
the head of the second development company

00:47:36.270 --> 00:47:38.730
who had been contracted
by Quang Binh Province

00:47:38.730 --> 00:47:40.440
to build a cable car,

00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:43.470
announced at the company's
shareholders meeting

00:47:43.470 --> 00:47:45.810
that they had decided
to take on the project

00:47:45.810 --> 00:47:47.670
and had requested Quang Binh

00:47:47.670 --> 00:47:50.220
to complete all the required paperwork.

00:47:50.220 --> 00:47:52.410
It was also announced that the cable car

00:47:52.410 --> 00:47:55.680
needed to approach directly into Son Doong

00:47:55.680 --> 00:47:58.470
in order for this
project to be successful.

00:47:58.470 --> 00:48:00.960
This was reported in the national news

00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.660
and we posted about this
on our Facebook page,

00:48:03.660 --> 00:48:07.020
including taking screenshots
of one of the articles

00:48:07.020 --> 00:48:09.000
which reported on this meeting.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:13.320
Later on, we found out that
this article had been edited

00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.380
and the direct quotes attributed
to the head of the company

00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:19.140
had been altered to remove the statement

00:48:19.140 --> 00:48:22.380
that they had decided
to take on the project

00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:24.600
and that now the cable car
would no longer approach

00:48:24.600 --> 00:48:26.070
directly into Son Doong,

00:48:26.070 --> 00:48:28.890
but instead would end
a few kilometers away

00:48:28.890 --> 00:48:30.570
from the cave entrance.

00:48:30.570 --> 00:48:33.540
- [Giang] We had some early
success with protecting Son Doong.

00:48:33.540 --> 00:48:35.910
The success will be never enduring

00:48:35.910 --> 00:48:39.120
because we know that the
interest of the big business

00:48:39.120 --> 00:48:40.140
is still there.

00:48:40.140 --> 00:48:43.740
It's really a big potential for them.

00:48:43.740 --> 00:48:46.170
So it's very hard for them to forgo that

00:48:46.170 --> 00:48:48.330
and say, "Hey, look,
we go somewhere else."

00:48:48.330 --> 00:48:50.880
They will come back again
and again and again,

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:53.790
and try to convince the leadership

00:48:53.790 --> 00:48:58.710
and convince the public that
the cable car is something good

00:48:58.710 --> 00:49:01.860
for the province and
for the country to do.

00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:04.863
Of course, I appreciate
that the people in Phong Nha

00:49:04.863 --> 00:49:07.950
have the right to a better livelihood,

00:49:07.950 --> 00:49:12.210
but I don't think that mass
tourism and big scale project

00:49:12.210 --> 00:49:14.550
and the cable car will
do any good for them

00:49:14.550 --> 00:49:15.570
in the long term.

00:49:15.570 --> 00:49:17.460
I think they can have a much better,

00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:19.890
much more sustainable, small scale,

00:49:19.890 --> 00:49:22.830
much more community-based tourism.

00:49:22.830 --> 00:49:25.680
And it will be of best benefits for them,

00:49:25.680 --> 00:49:28.080
for the environment, for
the leadership as well.

00:49:35.067 --> 00:49:36.060
(people chattering)

00:49:36.060 --> 00:49:38.660
- [Howard] Let's have a chat
before we get started, shall we?

00:49:39.707 --> 00:49:41.280
You've all got helmets?

00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:43.020
You've all got helmets?
- Yep.

00:49:43.020 --> 00:49:44.040
- Everybody's happy with the helmet.

00:49:44.040 --> 00:49:44.873
That's great.

00:49:44.873 --> 00:49:46.920
- [Greg] Back in 2014, when I got there,

00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.000
the town was just in its infancy
and just starting to grow.

00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.431
There wasn't much going on.

00:49:52.431 --> 00:49:54.180
There was a lot of speculation

00:49:54.180 --> 00:49:55.650
about how things were gonna grow

00:49:55.650 --> 00:49:57.676
because the discovery of Son Doong.

00:49:57.676 --> 00:49:59.235
(roosters crowing)

00:50:25.860 --> 00:50:28.590
- [Howard] Quang Binh Province
has changed dramatically

00:50:28.590 --> 00:50:30.660
in the last few years.

00:50:30.660 --> 00:50:33.390
In 1990, we came down to Phong Nha

00:50:33.390 --> 00:50:35.730
after five days traveling from Hanoi.

00:50:35.730 --> 00:50:38.790
It was a hell of a journey,
a really rough journey.

00:50:38.790 --> 00:50:41.190
There were no sealed
roads from Hanoi to here.

00:50:41.190 --> 00:50:42.210
None at all.

00:50:42.210 --> 00:50:44.880
It took a day to get here from Dong Hoi,

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.340
which now you can do in 40 minutes.

00:50:47.340 --> 00:50:49.530
And it was quite a shock to see this place

00:50:49.530 --> 00:50:51.870
because basically, there was nothing here.

00:50:51.870 --> 00:50:53.700
The people were incredibly poor.

00:50:53.700 --> 00:50:55.320
Incredibly friendly people.

00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:56.550
They all came and see us.

00:50:56.550 --> 00:50:59.733
Amazingly friendly, but amazingly poor.

00:51:01.530 --> 00:51:03.090
Quang Binh Province, without any doubt,

00:51:03.090 --> 00:51:05.463
was the poorest province in Vietnam.

00:51:06.390 --> 00:51:07.860
Most of the people lived on the river

00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:09.630
and they were fishing people.

00:51:09.630 --> 00:51:11.310
They grew a little bit of rice,

00:51:11.310 --> 00:51:14.370
but that was their only
source of food, really.

00:51:14.370 --> 00:51:16.260
We didn't really understand the poverty

00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:18.180
that they were going under at that time.

00:51:18.180 --> 00:51:20.460
Very naive when we first came out here.

00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:22.470
We wondered why we were
bringing all our own food

00:51:22.470 --> 00:51:23.340
from Hanoi.

00:51:23.340 --> 00:51:25.373
We didn't understand they
didn't have any food.

00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.300
The weeks that we arrived
and we worked here,

00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:32.850
there were about 1,000 people died

00:51:32.850 --> 00:51:34.773
of malnutrition and malaria.

00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:39.180
There were lots and lots of bomb craters

00:51:39.180 --> 00:51:41.820
because this was completely destroyed.

00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:44.253
And I mean completely
destroyed in the war.

00:51:45.870 --> 00:51:47.490
There was no standing building.

00:51:47.490 --> 00:51:50.730
Not one building was left after the war.

00:51:50.730 --> 00:51:54.450
So when we first came
in 1990, it was flat.

00:51:54.450 --> 00:51:57.060
The odd building were just
starting to be constructed

00:51:57.060 --> 00:51:58.140
in towns like Vinh,

00:51:58.140 --> 00:52:00.540
but it was just bomb creators and a mess.

00:52:00.540 --> 00:52:02.700
This was many, many years after the war.

00:52:02.700 --> 00:52:04.100
There's been no development.

00:52:05.610 --> 00:52:07.590
This was the area where
the Ho Chi Minh Trail,

00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:09.540
the narrowest part of Vietnam.

00:52:09.540 --> 00:52:12.990
So it's the most bombed area in the world.

00:52:12.990 --> 00:52:14.340
So more bombs were dropped here

00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:16.230
than anywhere else ever in the world,

00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:17.580
and so it just got murdered.

00:52:17.580 --> 00:52:20.656
In fact, all this area was
on fire for most of the war.

00:52:20.656 --> 00:52:24.210
(explosions)

00:52:24.210 --> 00:52:26.640
They had five major excursions

00:52:26.640 --> 00:52:28.680
to the Americans a day, I've been told,

00:52:28.680 --> 00:52:31.470
from the aircraft carriers out
in the sea and from Thailand.

00:52:31.470 --> 00:52:34.620
They came here, dropped
bombs five times a day.

00:52:34.620 --> 00:52:38.640
So the whole area used to
be called the fire mountains

00:52:38.640 --> 00:52:39.870
because they were always on fire.

00:52:39.870 --> 00:52:41.838
Everything was burning all the time.

00:52:41.838 --> 00:52:44.921
(explosions)

00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:11.490
Everything's new, yeah?

00:54:11.490 --> 00:54:15.720
It's just boom, and then
everyone just like overwhelmed.

00:54:15.720 --> 00:54:19.080
It's like Vietnam in
the past, after the war.

00:54:19.080 --> 00:54:23.160
Basically, we've been through
a very like rough time

00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:28.140
and then we have to start developing.

00:54:28.140 --> 00:54:31.650
But we don't have a lot
of good direction, yeah?

00:54:31.650 --> 00:54:34.470
So we need to go that, go that, go that,

00:54:34.470 --> 00:54:37.920
and then we find, let's
see which way is good.

00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.250
- [Jonathan] It reminded
me of Kathmandu in the '70s

00:54:41.250 --> 00:54:43.173
when it was very innocent.

00:54:44.970 --> 00:54:46.140
People were flowing in there

00:54:46.140 --> 00:54:47.940
and walking out into the mountains,

00:54:47.940 --> 00:54:51.090
except these were people
that were subsistence living.

00:54:51.090 --> 00:54:52.920
They don't even have
firewood half the time.

00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.020
And here comes a bunch of Westerners

00:54:55.020 --> 00:54:56.400
walking through their village

00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:58.563
and they didn't know, they put people up.

00:55:00.361 --> 00:55:01.980
(psychedelic music)

00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:03.480
They didn't know how to charge

00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:05.820
or how much money to take or not take.

00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:07.050
There was all these traditions

00:55:07.050 --> 00:55:09.243
about taking care of their travelers.

00:55:09.243 --> 00:55:13.350
And all of this was colliding,
but it was very innocent.

00:55:13.350 --> 00:55:15.150
And all of that's going on in Phong Nha,

00:55:15.150 --> 00:55:17.493
so it makes a really good correlation.

00:55:18.630 --> 00:55:21.840
Kathmandu was beautiful, it
was simple, it was small.

00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:23.550
And people started opening little shops

00:55:23.550 --> 00:55:25.740
that would serve apple pie to Americans,

00:55:25.740 --> 00:55:28.465
and they had sort of Westernized food

00:55:28.465 --> 00:55:31.140
and you could stay for 60 cents a night.

00:55:31.140 --> 00:55:34.503
It was very simple, but
it beautiful and fabulous.

00:55:35.550 --> 00:55:36.474
They started realizing

00:55:36.474 --> 00:55:39.270
that all these kids that were
flowing in had lots of money,

00:55:39.270 --> 00:55:40.740
even though they looked poor.

00:55:40.740 --> 00:55:43.650
They would pay you $4
for a piece of apple pie,

00:55:43.650 --> 00:55:45.150
which they were stunned.

00:55:45.150 --> 00:55:47.280
One rupee would buy you a meal,

00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:49.735
and people were paying 10
times to what it would cost.

00:55:49.735 --> 00:55:52.440
And so the culture started
to go, "Okay, well,

00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:54.240
if you guys want to come
in here and spend money,

00:55:54.240 --> 00:55:56.070
then we're gonna set up traps for that."

00:55:56.070 --> 00:55:57.720
And then it just gets commercialized.

00:55:57.720 --> 00:56:01.260
And Phong Nha is on its way to
that, but it's not there yet.

00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:03.840
And that, for me, was so exciting

00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:06.450
because I don't find anywhere like that.

00:56:06.450 --> 00:56:08.250
You can find places that are innocent,

00:56:08.250 --> 00:56:11.250
but they're very expensive
and complicated to get to.

00:56:11.250 --> 00:56:12.630
And Phong Nha is not.

00:56:12.630 --> 00:56:16.830
You can land in Cam Ranh or
whatever and drive up there.

00:56:16.830 --> 00:56:18.060
You don't even have to rent a car.

00:56:18.060 --> 00:56:21.120
You can take a car,
it'll cost you 30 bucks.

00:56:21.120 --> 00:56:24.330
So that means it's accessible
and it's still innocent.

00:56:24.330 --> 00:56:25.260
That's pretty rare.

00:56:25.260 --> 00:56:27.093
I don't see that much anymore.

00:56:28.020 --> 00:56:30.150
So then it was the Maldives,
and now they're trampled,

00:56:30.150 --> 00:56:32.010
so now it's some Marshall Islands,

00:56:32.010 --> 00:56:33.330
but they're always trying to figure out

00:56:33.330 --> 00:56:35.100
how to stay a few steps ahead.

00:56:35.100 --> 00:56:37.563
Well, right now, Phong
Nha is a few steps ahead.

00:56:38.910 --> 00:56:42.360
- [Multi] There's a whole
bunch of positive stuff

00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.133
that happened to start with.

00:56:45.630 --> 00:56:49.533
We'd just had the great big 2010 flood.

00:56:50.460 --> 00:56:55.460
So I got here and all of this
was covered in a foot of mud.

00:56:57.330 --> 00:57:01.530
The people had a despondent look.

00:57:01.530 --> 00:57:06.530
The Westerners turning up has
changed things dramatically.

00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:09.420
Phong Nha has exploded with tourism.

00:57:09.420 --> 00:57:11.468
Everyone is aspirational

00:57:11.468 --> 00:57:14.040
and they all think
they're going to the top.

00:57:14.040 --> 00:57:17.730
So everyone on a bicycle
wants to be on a motorbike,

00:57:17.730 --> 00:57:20.700
everyone on a motorbike
wants to be in a car,

00:57:20.700 --> 00:57:24.030
and everyone in a car wants
to be in a helicopter.

00:57:24.030 --> 00:57:27.513
So off we go to the future.

00:57:29.730 --> 00:57:31.110
- [Howard] As everybody's noticing now,

00:57:31.110 --> 00:57:33.990
there's massive changes in Phong Nha.

00:57:33.990 --> 00:57:35.313
It's mainly local development.

00:57:35.313 --> 00:57:39.210
It's not been big business
from outside coming in.

00:57:39.210 --> 00:57:41.310
Most of the buildings
that have been constructed

00:57:41.310 --> 00:57:44.250
in the last two or three
years are fairly small

00:57:44.250 --> 00:57:45.720
and they've not had the money to build

00:57:45.720 --> 00:57:48.570
very high skyscraper accommodation.

00:57:48.570 --> 00:57:49.920
It's all low level.

00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:52.080
So things are developing.

00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:55.713
The downside of any development
is what happens to the town.

00:57:56.910 --> 00:58:01.890
- [Hai] I think the decision now,
as you said, is very important.

00:58:01.890 --> 00:58:05.670
For example, the plan of Phong
Nha in the next 50 years.

00:58:05.670 --> 00:58:08.130
For example, the building construction.

00:58:08.130 --> 00:58:10.533
That will make Phong Nha
look beautiful or shit.

00:58:11.430 --> 00:58:13.590
If the local people understood that,

00:58:13.590 --> 00:58:15.630
Phong Nha will keep its value.

00:58:15.630 --> 00:58:18.450
It's developed, but in a beautiful way.

00:58:18.450 --> 00:58:20.730
What is fitting to Phong Nha.

00:58:20.730 --> 00:58:23.820
Keep it original, keep it
something very Phong Nha,

00:58:23.820 --> 00:58:25.890
very unique in Vietnam.

00:58:25.890 --> 00:58:29.130
If we create that value,
in the next 10 years,

00:58:29.130 --> 00:58:31.353
Phong Nha gonna becoming
paradise to people.

00:58:33.240 --> 00:58:34.680
The ideas of this place,

00:58:34.680 --> 00:58:39.480
it's trying to build an
eco-friendly villa or resort.

00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:41.310
So as you see here,

00:58:41.310 --> 00:58:45.840
we use the material which is
very unique in Quang Binh.

00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:48.870
We use a bamboo cross, bamboo bar.

00:58:48.870 --> 00:58:50.190
It's all eco-friendly.

00:58:50.190 --> 00:58:53.550
So we try to get a little bit
of this, a little bit that,

00:58:53.550 --> 00:58:55.020
and make this unique.

00:58:55.020 --> 00:58:57.210
Phong Nha used to be a lot of backpackers,

00:58:57.210 --> 00:58:59.340
but now it's getting like a middle class.

00:58:59.340 --> 00:59:03.630
And if you could create
different value and it's good,

00:59:03.630 --> 00:59:06.030
I think it will be successful.

00:59:06.030 --> 00:59:09.720
And you see Phong Nha
now, it's so original.

00:59:09.720 --> 00:59:14.160
And a few places like this
doesn't affect all the landscape.

00:59:14.160 --> 00:59:15.150
It's next to the mountain.

00:59:15.150 --> 00:59:17.610
You can hear all the sound of the birds,

00:59:17.610 --> 00:59:19.500
maybe the monkeys jumping out.

00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:20.730
I'm very confident.

00:59:20.730 --> 00:59:22.230
It will take some time,

00:59:22.230 --> 00:59:24.247
but it will be the future of Phong Nha.

00:59:25.740 --> 00:59:29.310
- [Howard] Phong Nha area, there's
more people visit caves here,

00:59:29.310 --> 00:59:31.320
both as an adventure tourism,

00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:32.610
than anywhere else in the world.

00:59:32.610 --> 00:59:35.190
More people are doing
adventure tours in caves

00:59:35.190 --> 00:59:37.230
here than anywhere else comfortably.

00:59:37.230 --> 00:59:39.870
These are not tourist caves
with lights and paths.

00:59:39.870 --> 00:59:42.600
These are proper multi-day adventures.

00:59:42.600 --> 00:59:46.680
- [Man] If we develop
it properly, naturally,

00:59:46.680 --> 00:59:48.960
it will attract a lot of people

00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:52.350
who really want to see the natural beauty.

00:59:52.350 --> 00:59:53.490
- [Howard] It seems to be working.

00:59:53.490 --> 00:59:56.760
The idea of setting up
these adventure tours

00:59:56.760 --> 00:59:58.290
to only limited people,

00:59:58.290 --> 01:00:00.870
preserve the cave, and
yet promote the cave.

01:00:00.870 --> 01:00:03.120
That's what's been a
very successful model,

01:00:03.120 --> 01:00:05.463
and it's growing incredibly well.

01:00:05.463 --> 01:00:07.650
You've only got to walk
the streets of Phong Nha,

01:00:07.650 --> 01:00:09.843
which is full of foreign
tourists at the moment.

01:00:09.843 --> 01:00:11.190
It's really, really busy.

01:00:11.190 --> 01:00:15.990
- [Tourist] We have just arrived
in the small town of Phong Nha.

01:00:15.990 --> 01:00:17.610
It's kind of a cute little town, huh?

01:00:17.610 --> 01:00:18.450
- It really is.

01:00:18.450 --> 01:00:19.980
- [JP] Hi, my name's JP.

01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:22.980
I'm in Phong Nha, Vietnam,
and I'm traveling the world.

01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:25.050
- [Tourist] It is absolutely beautiful.

01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:29.880
The people, the hats. (giggles)

01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.220
- [Multi] I love this place.
I love everyone that's here.

01:00:32.220 --> 01:00:34.650
I love what they've got here.

01:00:34.650 --> 01:00:36.210
- [Denise] We're very proud

01:00:36.210 --> 01:00:38.730
that everything has been locally owned.

01:00:38.730 --> 01:00:41.910
That's been a huge deal for Phong Nha.

01:00:41.910 --> 01:00:44.790
The local people saw opportunity,

01:00:44.790 --> 01:00:47.460
they joined forces as families,

01:00:47.460 --> 01:00:50.040
and they started all
of these new endeavors.

01:00:50.040 --> 01:00:53.580
And I always thought that's
one of the biggest things

01:00:53.580 --> 01:00:56.782
that made Phong Nha so
unique and so special.

01:00:56.782 --> 01:01:01.110
- [JP] I mean like, where am I? (chuckles)

01:01:01.110 --> 01:01:03.180
This is like paradise.

01:01:03.180 --> 01:01:05.309
Man, it's gorgeous.

01:01:05.309 --> 01:01:07.590
- Hello.
(woman laughs)

01:01:07.590 --> 01:01:09.772
- [Woman] You're so falling off.

01:01:09.772 --> 01:01:11.497
(orchestral music)

01:01:11.497 --> 01:01:12.815
(people laughing)
(ducks quacking)

01:01:12.815 --> 01:01:15.815
(fireworks)

01:01:17.670 --> 01:01:19.050
- [Denise] Things were going so well.

01:01:19.050 --> 01:01:21.630
Phong Nha was booming.

01:01:21.630 --> 01:01:22.890
It was busy.

01:01:22.890 --> 01:01:27.890
It was full of energy and
people and anticipation

01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:30.660
and hope and big dreams.

01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:33.835
Everyone had big dreams.

01:01:33.835 --> 01:01:36.743
(music swells)

01:01:39.004 --> 01:01:44.004
(birds chirping)
(wind rustling)

01:01:51.720 --> 01:01:52.553
- [Man] In Phong Nha town,

01:01:52.553 --> 01:01:56.463
I think at least 90% business, they close.

01:01:58.560 --> 01:01:59.943
They have no choice.

01:02:02.700 --> 01:02:04.740
So now we block the border.

01:02:04.740 --> 01:02:08.490
So no more tourists, no customers.

01:02:08.490 --> 01:02:11.883
So they have to close and find
other solution, other jobs.

01:02:14.700 --> 01:02:16.200
- [Man] It's a really difficult time.

01:02:16.200 --> 01:02:18.183
This is really tough for the locals.

01:02:19.740 --> 01:02:22.353
A lot of business owners,
they're very scared.

01:02:24.030 --> 01:02:27.660
Phong Nha people rely on tourism.

01:02:27.660 --> 01:02:29.190
And when the tourism is dead,

01:02:29.190 --> 01:02:34.190
it's obviously they
just...yeah, `very stressful.

01:02:37.110 --> 01:02:39.900
- [Man] A lot of business,
they borrow money from the bank

01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:44.490
and now COVID came for three times.

01:02:44.490 --> 01:02:46.513
So bankrupt.

01:02:46.513 --> 01:02:49.233
Some of them, they sell their business.

01:02:50.310 --> 01:02:53.160
Some they going to sell quite cheaper.

01:02:53.160 --> 01:02:54.573
They have no choice now.

01:02:55.650 --> 01:02:57.791
Too much money from the bank.

01:03:49.863 --> 01:03:51.346
- [Multi] A lot of us Westerners here

01:03:51.346 --> 01:03:54.128
are looking over our shoulder

01:03:54.128 --> 01:03:57.990
at where Phong Nha used to
be and we're going, "Well,

01:03:57.990 --> 01:04:00.990
we can't wait 'til the good times return."

01:04:00.990 --> 01:04:05.040
I don't know that we really
can be looking for stuff

01:04:05.040 --> 01:04:07.560
to go back to the way it was.

01:04:07.560 --> 01:04:11.340
If you can just turn around
and look at the future

01:04:11.340 --> 01:04:12.930
and where we're going.

01:04:12.930 --> 01:04:17.644
I think what'll come back
is different development.

01:04:17.644 --> 01:04:20.644
(crickets chirping)

01:04:23.425 --> 01:04:24.737
(glasses clinking)

01:04:24.737 --> 01:04:28.154
(speaking in Vietnamese)

01:05:56.820 --> 01:06:00.153
(singing in Vietnamese)

01:07:10.874 --> 01:07:13.624
(rain falling)

01:07:16.923 --> 01:07:19.350
- [Huong] In the middle of 2020,

01:07:19.350 --> 01:07:21.570
when people started to
talk about the new normal,

01:07:21.570 --> 01:07:22.593
the new normal.

01:07:23.580 --> 01:07:25.620
It would be very sad

01:07:25.620 --> 01:07:29.310
if the new normal is where they continue

01:07:29.310 --> 01:07:32.970
or even more so prioritize
economic benefits

01:07:32.970 --> 01:07:35.013
over environmental impacts.

01:07:36.600 --> 01:07:41.010
So (sighs)...to me, a good new normal

01:07:41.010 --> 01:07:44.130
is actually what Phong
Nha has already been doing

01:07:44.130 --> 01:07:45.990
in the last five, six years

01:07:45.990 --> 01:07:48.630
that other provinces in
Vietnam are not doing.

01:07:48.630 --> 01:07:51.600
And I hope that the people
in charge in Quang Binh

01:07:51.600 --> 01:07:55.683
can see that and can stick to that.

01:07:55.683 --> 01:07:58.380
I did and I still do sometimes have

01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:00.390
that very strong sense of guilt

01:08:00.390 --> 01:08:03.000
that inspired me to start Save
Son Doong in the beginning.

01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:04.800
Sometime came back,

01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:07.830
haunting me as a question
of what am I doing

01:08:07.830 --> 01:08:11.100
to the poor people that
could very much benefit

01:08:11.100 --> 01:08:12.510
from mass tourism.

01:08:12.510 --> 01:08:17.130
Because it is impossible for
me to ask people to starve

01:08:17.130 --> 01:08:20.030
while they know that they're
sitting on a hidden treasure.

01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:23.220
It's unfair for people.

01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:24.480
It's easy for me to say,

01:08:24.480 --> 01:08:26.970
because I grew up in a
privileged background.

01:08:26.970 --> 01:08:30.420
I don't have to worry about
my next meal every day.

01:08:30.420 --> 01:08:32.340
But for those people who do,

01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:35.700
I cannot ask them to go sit and wait

01:08:35.700 --> 01:08:38.823
for the benefits of 10 years,
a hundred years from now.

01:08:40.350 --> 01:08:42.147
- [Multi] We're building a homestay

01:08:42.147 --> 01:08:46.830
and my wife's putting steel
inside the concrete columns.

01:08:46.830 --> 01:08:48.630
And I'm like, "What's this for?"

01:08:48.630 --> 01:08:51.960
She said, "Oh, this is to make
the building last forever."

01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:53.590
I said, "But our daughter's gonna have to

01:08:53.590 --> 01:08:55.530
knock this down soon."

01:08:55.530 --> 01:08:57.510
And she went, "What for?"

01:08:57.510 --> 01:09:01.650
I said, "Maybe a shopping
center, maybe a heliport,

01:09:01.650 --> 01:09:03.810
maybe a cable car."

01:09:03.810 --> 01:09:07.560
And my wife said, "Oh, don't
be silly, that won't happen."

01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:10.950
And I said, "You're standing
here looking at villas

01:09:10.950 --> 01:09:14.280
and a swimming pool in your banana field."

01:09:14.280 --> 01:09:15.540
I said, "When you were a kid,

01:09:15.540 --> 01:09:17.240
did you think this would be here?"

01:09:18.533 --> 01:09:22.110
She went, "Oh yeah, I
can see what you mean."

01:09:22.110 --> 01:09:23.490
People say to me, "Hey, Multi,

01:09:23.490 --> 01:09:25.380
you were here when tourism started.

01:09:25.380 --> 01:09:27.900
You should take credit for this."

01:09:27.900 --> 01:09:29.850
I don't want to take credit for tourism

01:09:29.850 --> 01:09:31.980
because if I have to take the credit,

01:09:31.980 --> 01:09:33.450
then I have to take the blame

01:09:33.450 --> 01:09:36.660
for any bad stuff that happens.

01:09:36.660 --> 01:09:40.110
Phong Nha, in 10 years, there'll
be a Muong Thanh restaurant,

01:09:40.110 --> 01:09:43.440
there'll be a casino,
there'll be golf courses.

01:09:43.440 --> 01:09:46.320
The whole place will be
great and prosperous.

01:09:46.320 --> 01:09:50.340
And in the big picture,
that's a good thing.

01:09:50.340 --> 01:09:52.440
There's always gonna be the money there.

01:09:52.440 --> 01:09:54.990
But what I'm worried about is the locals

01:09:54.990 --> 01:09:56.853
that are gonna suffer from it.

01:09:58.020 --> 01:10:00.510
These people aren't gonna benefit.

01:10:00.510 --> 01:10:02.910
These people are gonna
sell their properties

01:10:02.910 --> 01:10:04.710
for twice what they're worth.

01:10:04.710 --> 01:10:06.390
And then in three years,

01:10:06.390 --> 01:10:10.122
when their properties are
worth 30 times as much,

01:10:10.122 --> 01:10:12.160
they're not gonna be that happy.

01:10:12.160 --> 01:10:16.277
(wind rustling)

01:10:21.277 --> 01:10:25.419
(unsettling orchestral music)

01:10:25.419 --> 01:10:28.260
(wind strengthens)

01:10:31.200 --> 01:10:33.630
- [Giang] As the economy change and grows,

01:10:33.630 --> 01:10:36.393
land has become the
most valuable commodity.

01:10:37.260 --> 01:10:38.703
Everybody wants to have it.

01:10:40.410 --> 01:10:42.843
So Vietnam people don't own land.

01:10:43.830 --> 01:10:46.740
The land is not the people's property.

01:10:46.740 --> 01:10:48.570
The land belongs to the government

01:10:48.570 --> 01:10:50.760
and given to the people to use,

01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:54.420
to build a house, to farm, to grow rice,

01:10:54.420 --> 01:10:55.563
or to build a factory.

01:10:56.400 --> 01:10:59.250
But at any time, the
government could take it back.

01:10:59.250 --> 01:11:01.860
If they say roads need to be built

01:11:01.860 --> 01:11:03.720
or a project need to be invested,

01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:06.780
then they will take away from the people

01:11:06.780 --> 01:11:11.040
with a certain compensation
which almost will never be fair

01:11:11.040 --> 01:11:14.193
and never match the market price.

01:11:15.270 --> 01:11:18.657
- [Huong] Land rights is not
only a hot topic in Vietnam,

01:11:18.657 --> 01:11:20.430
but a sensitive issue,

01:11:20.430 --> 01:11:24.360
that talking about it
can give people trouble.

01:11:24.360 --> 01:11:26.130
It is a sensitive topic

01:11:26.130 --> 01:11:29.370
because there have been cases in the past

01:11:29.370 --> 01:11:34.110
where certain villagers stood
up to governmental officers

01:11:34.110 --> 01:11:36.390
when their land being confiscated

01:11:36.390 --> 01:11:38.100
and they were sent to jail.

01:11:38.100 --> 01:11:40.563
Some even received death sentences.

01:11:41.670 --> 01:11:43.500
A lot of these farmers and fishermen,

01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:45.180
when you ask them about land rights,

01:11:45.180 --> 01:11:47.190
they wouldn't be able to distinguish

01:11:47.190 --> 01:11:50.160
that the certificate that
they're holding in their hand

01:11:50.160 --> 01:11:52.890
only allow them to use
the land for 50 years

01:11:52.890 --> 01:11:55.207
and not to own the land.

01:11:55.207 --> 01:11:57.090
It's just very simple to them

01:11:57.090 --> 01:11:59.460
that they were born on this land

01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:02.490
so they want their son
to be born on this land.

01:12:02.490 --> 01:12:04.710
That's how simple they see it.

01:12:04.710 --> 01:12:06.840
So when somebody knock now on their door

01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:08.400
and said, "You have to leave

01:12:08.400 --> 01:12:10.590
because we using this
for other purposes,"

01:12:10.590 --> 01:12:13.170
it just doesn't make sense to them.

01:12:13.170 --> 01:12:15.990
- [Giang] And that's where
corruption will come into play.

01:12:15.990 --> 01:12:18.450
Because when you have the power

01:12:18.450 --> 01:12:20.553
to reassign the purpose of the land,

01:12:22.320 --> 01:12:24.600
then you will potentially have the power

01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:28.950
to...to...earn the rent.

01:12:28.950 --> 01:12:31.890
To receive the profit out of that.

01:12:31.890 --> 01:12:33.540
So let's say I'm a big developer.

01:12:33.540 --> 01:12:36.600
I see a valuable location, rice fields,

01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:39.840
and I'm a crony of my
politician in that province.

01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:41.460
We could link together

01:12:41.460 --> 01:12:43.920
and say that we need
that land for our project

01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:45.480
which is good for the province,

01:12:45.480 --> 01:12:48.270
and take away the land
from the current land users

01:12:48.270 --> 01:12:50.130
with the minimal compensation

01:12:50.130 --> 01:12:52.796
and enjoy the profit out of that.

01:12:52.796 --> 01:12:54.390
(construction sounds)

01:12:54.390 --> 01:12:56.730
- [Huy] When the big
companies decided to invest

01:12:56.730 --> 01:12:58.200
into local community,

01:12:58.200 --> 01:13:02.190
the reason why the local
officials always welcome

01:13:02.190 --> 01:13:04.140
is because they see the potential

01:13:04.140 --> 01:13:07.170
for their people to be richer.

01:13:07.170 --> 01:13:10.020
As a tourist, we love to enjoy nature.

01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:13.440
But looking from the local
people point of view.

01:13:13.440 --> 01:13:17.910
If there's no industry
for them to make money,

01:13:17.910 --> 01:13:21.780
to earn a living and
for them to get richer,

01:13:21.780 --> 01:13:23.530
for their children to go to school,

01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:26.553
then it's not fair for them.

01:13:27.990 --> 01:13:32.486
So tourism's sometime is a sacrifice.

01:13:50.790 --> 01:13:53.430
- [Man] Bringing a cable
car into the national park

01:13:53.430 --> 01:13:56.220
is not a bad idea if you
know how to control that.

01:13:56.220 --> 01:13:58.680
A lot of people, they cannot
walk into the national park,

01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:00.060
or they cannot go hiking,

01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:02.880
but they still can see the
national park from the sky.

01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:04.500
Sooner or later, it's gonna happen.

01:14:04.500 --> 01:14:06.060
It's a good chance for the local people.

01:14:06.060 --> 01:14:08.370
And it's a good chance for
Quang Binh and Phong Nha

01:14:08.370 --> 01:14:10.320
to show the world that we have everything.

01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:13.920
We have the largest cave, we
have a big cave system here,

01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:15.107
and even have cable car.

01:14:15.107 --> 01:14:18.510
So we have different
options for people to come.

01:14:18.510 --> 01:14:20.760
- [Jonathan] Humankind, as
soon as they discover something

01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:22.860
on the Earth that's unique and wonderful,

01:14:22.860 --> 01:14:24.300
they will desecrate it.

01:14:24.300 --> 01:14:25.800
We have a terrible track record

01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:28.500
of acknowledging,
respecting, and preserving.

01:14:28.500 --> 01:14:31.784
It's one thing to watch the Imperial
sites of China get trampled,

01:14:31.784 --> 01:14:34.380
but it's another thing altogether
to watch a natural wonder

01:14:34.380 --> 01:14:37.440
that took millions and
millions of years to develop.

01:14:37.440 --> 01:14:39.840
And part of that is you
have to have exclusivity

01:14:39.840 --> 01:14:41.220
to have sanctuary.

01:14:41.220 --> 01:14:42.892
The cave needs to be a sanctuary.

01:14:42.892 --> 01:14:45.481
But then that means you got to limit.

01:14:45.481 --> 01:14:47.880
And the way things get limited is by cost.

01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:49.530
- [Huong] The whole idea
that I'm pushing for

01:14:49.530 --> 01:14:52.230
is Son Doong is not a
place for mass tourism.

01:14:52.230 --> 01:14:56.040
So it is a place for a limited
number of people to go to.

01:14:56.040 --> 01:14:59.520
Now who gets to go is the next question.

01:14:59.520 --> 01:15:00.450
And right now,

01:15:00.450 --> 01:15:03.360
one of the biggest filter
is financial ability.

01:15:03.360 --> 01:15:06.510
Who can pay $3,000 for a four day trip?

01:15:06.510 --> 01:15:10.170
Given that the average income
of a Vietnamese citizen

01:15:10.170 --> 01:15:15.170
is about $6,500 a year, $3,000 is a lot.

01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:18.540
- [Multi] If you're looking at it
from an environmental perspective,

01:15:18.540 --> 01:15:20.520
yeah, okay, save Son Doong.

01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:24.780
Yes, put a cage over the front
of it, don't walk in there.

01:15:24.780 --> 01:15:26.298
Save Son Doong.

01:15:26.298 --> 01:15:31.298
Limiting the people that go in
there to the rich and famous?

01:15:33.150 --> 01:15:35.200
No, that's not saving Son Doong.

01:15:35.200 --> 01:15:39.990
That's saving Son Doong for
those that can afford it.

01:15:39.990 --> 01:15:41.860
- [Huong] Not everybody going there

01:15:41.860 --> 01:15:44.280
was to go to Son Doong.

01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:48.900
Thanks to Son Doong, other caves in
this area got a lot more popularity,

01:15:48.900 --> 01:15:50.970
which I don't think
they would be able to do

01:15:50.970 --> 01:15:52.470
without the story of Son Doong.

01:15:52.470 --> 01:15:55.410
Yes, people can get rich
overnight really fast,

01:15:55.410 --> 01:15:56.910
but that's not gonna last.

01:15:56.910 --> 01:15:59.880
And we've seen this over and
over and over in Vietnam.

01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:03.076
And I don't want the same
thing to repeat with Phong Nha.

01:16:03.076 --> 01:16:04.710
Phong Nha is a small village.

01:16:04.710 --> 01:16:07.920
All these villagers are
literally brothers and cousins

01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:11.820
and uncles and aunties
and sisters to each other.

01:16:11.820 --> 01:16:14.850
If you're talking to the poorest people,

01:16:14.850 --> 01:16:18.510
it makes sense why they would
be excited for this project

01:16:18.510 --> 01:16:21.030
in which big companies are promising them

01:16:21.030 --> 01:16:23.580
lots and lots of money,
lots and lots of tourists.

01:16:23.580 --> 01:16:24.780
But for those who are luckier

01:16:24.780 --> 01:16:26.820
and have access to higher education,

01:16:26.820 --> 01:16:29.670
they understand that
when big companies come,

01:16:29.670 --> 01:16:31.830
majority of the profit
would go to the pocket

01:16:31.830 --> 01:16:33.150
of these big companies

01:16:33.150 --> 01:16:35.610
and they, in turn, will just become

01:16:35.610 --> 01:16:37.890
construction workers, et cetera.

01:16:37.890 --> 01:16:41.400
But if we support small local businesses,

01:16:41.400 --> 01:16:45.030
then we can actually create
permanent employment.

01:16:45.030 --> 01:16:48.660
Local businesses founded
and run by local people

01:16:48.660 --> 01:16:51.480
would be the best tool to empower people

01:16:51.480 --> 01:16:53.580
because these local companies

01:16:53.580 --> 01:16:56.610
have the best interest of
the community at heart.

01:16:56.610 --> 01:16:58.260
- [Jonathan] Oxalis is...

01:16:58.260 --> 01:17:01.140
The guy that owns it is
an interesting character.

01:17:01.140 --> 01:17:03.870
He didn't really get into
Oxalis and the cave and all that

01:17:03.870 --> 01:17:05.280
because he wanted to make money.

01:17:05.280 --> 01:17:06.360
He'd already made money.

01:17:06.360 --> 01:17:08.601
And now they're throwing
off revenue and profits

01:17:08.601 --> 01:17:11.820
and they're using those
profits to support schools.

01:17:11.820 --> 01:17:12.930
That's fabulous.

01:17:12.930 --> 01:17:13.950
That's very important.

01:17:13.950 --> 01:17:15.900
Now you have a full cycle.

01:17:15.900 --> 01:17:19.260
The commerciality is
returning to the community

01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:21.870
instead of going to China.

01:17:21.870 --> 01:17:23.130
That's very important.

01:17:23.130 --> 01:17:26.210
If they could keep that loop
going throughout Phong Nha.

01:17:26.210 --> 01:17:30.570
If that concept could sustain
that area, which it won't,

01:17:30.570 --> 01:17:31.551
but if it could,

01:17:31.551 --> 01:17:34.840
they'd have a chance at
really creating something

01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:38.280
that, on the human level, is remarkable,

01:17:38.280 --> 01:17:42.300
as well as associating it with
a remarkable natural wonder.

01:17:42.300 --> 01:17:45.960
- [Interviewer] You say it won't, but
why don't you think that's sustainable?

01:17:45.960 --> 01:17:50.070
- [Jonathan] Because
there's too much at stake.

01:17:50.070 --> 01:17:53.280
And there'll be people and
big players that'll step in.

01:17:53.280 --> 01:17:54.930
Just imagine if the Grand Canyon

01:17:54.930 --> 01:17:56.970
was just discovered this week

01:17:56.970 --> 01:17:58.863
and it didn't belong to anyone.

01:18:00.420 --> 01:18:02.430
And there was a government
that controlled it,

01:18:02.430 --> 01:18:05.730
but they were under the
influence of a lot of forces.

01:18:05.730 --> 01:18:07.161
And then people realized

01:18:07.161 --> 01:18:09.480
that this is gonna become, you know,

01:18:09.480 --> 01:18:12.513
it's gonna become a major
global tourist attraction.

01:18:13.560 --> 01:18:14.870
How would that go?

01:18:14.870 --> 01:18:16.200
It wouldn't go well.

01:18:16.200 --> 01:18:17.670
So I don't have much hope

01:18:17.670 --> 01:18:19.560
that they're suddenly gonna wake up

01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:21.480
and figure out how to develop Phong Nha

01:18:21.480 --> 01:18:26.480
in a way that preserves the charm.

01:18:27.090 --> 01:18:29.760
It'll just get trampled for money.

01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:31.260
And that's just the way it is.

01:18:33.125 --> 01:18:35.875
(wind whooshing)

01:18:41.724 --> 01:18:43.350
- [Explorer] This is
the new cave entrance.

01:18:43.350 --> 01:18:44.820
A phenomenal draft.

01:18:44.820 --> 01:18:46.230
And it's probably hard to make out,

01:18:46.230 --> 01:18:49.230
but there's like a cloud
layer coming up out of cave.

01:18:49.230 --> 01:18:50.550
Incredible.

01:18:50.550 --> 01:18:52.050
Look at them leaves moving.

01:18:52.050 --> 01:18:54.570
Probably bigger than Deer Cave, this one.

01:18:54.570 --> 01:18:57.690
So its claim as being the
largest underground passage,

01:18:57.690 --> 01:18:59.040
is probably gonna have to change.

01:18:59.040 --> 01:19:00.060
When you march through it,

01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:02.210
you realize you're in
a big enclosed space.

01:19:04.350 --> 01:19:05.340
- [Woman] It's quite remarkable

01:19:05.340 --> 01:19:08.673
that no one knew about Son
Doong until about 10 years ago.

01:19:11.940 --> 01:19:12.900
- [Interviewer] When you told people

01:19:12.900 --> 01:19:14.880
that you were going to
this big cave in Vietnam,

01:19:14.880 --> 01:19:16.733
how many of your friends knew about it?

01:19:17.730 --> 01:19:18.563
- [Woman] None.

01:19:18.563 --> 01:19:19.980
- [Man] Absolutely none.
- [Man] Yeah.

01:19:19.980 --> 01:19:21.757
- [Alex] I have to admit that

01:19:21.757 --> 01:19:24.750
95% of the people I told about this cave

01:19:24.750 --> 01:19:26.107
had never heard of it and were like,

01:19:26.107 --> 01:19:28.530
"Why would you wanna go
spend a week in a cave?

01:19:28.530 --> 01:19:30.720
Isn't it dark and you don't see any light?

01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:32.010
And where do you sleep?

01:19:32.010 --> 01:19:33.390
And, ugh, no, not for me."

01:19:33.390 --> 01:19:35.640
- [Greg] The only way that
I even knew about this

01:19:35.640 --> 01:19:39.150
was a friend of mine
posted a story about it

01:19:39.150 --> 01:19:41.490
that was posted on Facebook.

01:19:41.490 --> 01:19:42.840
And I was gearing up

01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:45.750
for this seven-month trip around the world

01:19:45.750 --> 01:19:47.130
and I clicked on it and read the story.

01:19:47.130 --> 01:19:49.140
And I said, "I want to go there,

01:19:49.140 --> 01:19:52.290
and I'm gonna do everything I
can to make sure I go there."

01:19:52.290 --> 01:19:54.330
I mean, that's the only
way I'd heard about it.

01:19:54.330 --> 01:19:59.310
And even after taking the
trek and telling people,

01:19:59.310 --> 01:20:01.500
people were like, "Where, what?

01:20:01.500 --> 01:20:02.333
Vietnam?

01:20:03.450 --> 01:20:04.672
Are you sure?"

01:20:04.672 --> 01:20:07.860
(tense music)

01:20:07.860 --> 01:20:09.420
- [Jonathan] The way the
expedition was organized,

01:20:09.420 --> 01:20:13.020
that particular one is that
we split into three teams

01:20:13.020 --> 01:20:14.640
and each team would have
a set of objectives.

01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:15.990
And we'd set off on Monday morning,

01:20:15.990 --> 01:20:17.610
get back on Friday afternoon,

01:20:17.610 --> 01:20:19.020
and then we'd have the weekend

01:20:19.020 --> 01:20:21.480
sort of admin, relaxing,
having a few beers,

01:20:21.480 --> 01:20:22.920
talking to each other
about what we'd done,

01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.020
and then planning for the next week.

01:20:25.020 --> 01:20:27.120
Our team, which comprised of Snablet

01:20:27.120 --> 01:20:28.620
as the sort of team leader,

01:20:28.620 --> 01:20:32.190
and myself, Adam, Hellie, and Trevor.

01:20:32.190 --> 01:20:34.410
We were given this set of objectives.

01:20:34.410 --> 01:20:36.180
And we were sat by the campfire that night

01:20:36.180 --> 01:20:37.710
and we were sort of laughing and joking.

01:20:37.710 --> 01:20:39.930
And Snablet said, "Well,
we're obviously the C team

01:20:39.930 --> 01:20:42.090
because Howard obviously
is leading the A team

01:20:42.090 --> 01:20:43.710
and Debs is obviously leading the B team.

01:20:43.710 --> 01:20:46.170
So that means we must be the C team."

01:20:46.170 --> 01:20:48.690
And, yeah, we were all
quite happy with that.

01:20:48.690 --> 01:20:52.173
And it was just a bit of a
joke and nothing very serious.

01:20:53.550 --> 01:20:57.170
And then, the next day,
we found Hang Son Doong.

01:20:57.170 --> 01:20:59.742
It was just really quite incredible.

01:20:59.742 --> 01:21:02.157
(eerie music)

01:21:02.157 --> 01:21:07.157
(birds cawing)
(wind rustling)

01:21:18.630 --> 01:21:20.313
- [Jonathan] It's very unassuming.

01:21:22.290 --> 01:21:24.690
It's just a pile of
rocks with a hole in it.

01:21:25.753 --> 01:21:30.753
(birds screeching)
(atmospheric rumbling)

01:21:36.870 --> 01:21:37.740
- [Woman] Any normal person

01:21:37.740 --> 01:21:40.410
would never be able to find Son Doong.

01:21:40.410 --> 01:21:45.410
It's literally in the middle
of a huge canopy of mountains.

01:21:48.060 --> 01:21:51.252
From a bird's eye view, you would
never, ever be able to see that.

01:21:52.946 --> 01:21:55.496
So it's remarkable that
it was even discovered.

01:21:56.732 --> 01:22:00.149
(Tuan speaking in Vietnamese)

01:22:12.784 --> 01:22:15.617
(thunder in the background)

01:22:19.650 --> 01:22:22.140
- [Adam] He was on his
own and it was in a storm

01:22:22.140 --> 01:22:25.590
and he sought shelter
underneath a convenient cliff,

01:22:25.590 --> 01:22:29.643
which is the entrance of what
we now call Son Doong Cave.

01:22:31.830 --> 01:22:33.480
And then he forgot about it

01:22:33.480 --> 01:22:37.380
because it wasn't of any
particular use to him.

01:22:37.380 --> 01:22:39.780
And then in 2005,

01:22:39.780 --> 01:22:42.510
he was introduced to the
British caving expedition.

01:22:42.510 --> 01:22:45.210
And he said, "Yep, I used
to go in the jungle a lot.

01:22:45.210 --> 01:22:46.950
I know lots of caves."

01:22:46.950 --> 01:22:49.620
And he agreed to take a digital camera

01:22:49.620 --> 01:22:50.880
and we paid him a bit of money,

01:22:50.880 --> 01:22:54.150
and over the next few years
he sought out caves again,

01:22:54.150 --> 01:22:59.150
finding Son Doong in 2008
and taking us there in 2009.

01:22:59.330 --> 01:23:01.849
(eerie music)

01:23:01.849 --> 01:23:04.599
(water plopping)

01:23:11.760 --> 01:23:12.930
Our initial thoughts were

01:23:12.930 --> 01:23:15.930
it was quite obviously a
reasonably significant cave.

01:23:15.930 --> 01:23:19.470
You can hear the river flowing
inside from the entrance,

01:23:19.470 --> 01:23:22.290
and there's quite a substantial breeze

01:23:22.290 --> 01:23:23.430
coming out of the cave.

01:23:23.430 --> 01:23:26.490
A substantial breeze
normally, would signify

01:23:26.490 --> 01:23:28.490
a substantial cave.

01:23:28.490 --> 01:23:32.048
(errie music)

01:23:34.690 --> 01:23:36.848
(bats squeaking)

01:23:39.480 --> 01:23:42.420
If there aren't any
ropes down the entrance,

01:23:42.420 --> 01:23:44.880
it's a very committing climb.

01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.460
It's certainly very
committing on some days.

01:23:47.460 --> 01:23:49.893
The entrance can get very, very slippery.

01:24:00.900 --> 01:24:03.030
We didn't see any footprints at all,

01:24:03.030 --> 01:24:05.730
but in the first part of the cave,

01:24:05.730 --> 01:24:08.583
it floods catastrophically
in the wet seasons.

01:24:17.940 --> 01:24:20.790
It's possible we weren't
the first people in there,

01:24:20.790 --> 01:24:24.183
but it's very unlikely
that anybody had been in.

01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:28.680
Vietnamese only tend to
be interested in caves

01:24:28.680 --> 01:24:32.043
for collecting water,
fishing, and shelter.

01:24:33.794 --> 01:24:37.127
(eerie music continues)

01:24:49.303 --> 01:24:52.220
(orchestral music)

01:25:36.270 --> 01:25:38.790
- [Jonathan] I was
lying in bed that night,

01:25:38.790 --> 01:25:40.350
and I do remember this very clearly,

01:25:40.350 --> 01:25:43.170
and I was thinking, "What have we found?"

01:25:43.170 --> 01:25:45.870
'Cause I'd been to the caves in Mulu.

01:25:45.870 --> 01:25:49.293
I'd only done a very short
trip there, a family trip,

01:25:50.670 --> 01:25:52.320
as a tourist rather than as an explorer.

01:25:52.320 --> 01:25:57.320
But I'd been into Deer
Cave, and...it was bigger.

01:25:57.597 --> 01:26:00.720
And I was convinced that
this was either bigger,

01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:03.540
or as big, or very nearly
as big as Deer Cave.

01:26:03.540 --> 01:26:05.550
And obviously, we couldn't
say anything definitive

01:26:05.550 --> 01:26:07.710
'cause we hadn't done
anywhere near enough work.

01:26:07.710 --> 01:26:09.990
And I'd also been to the
Chiquibul Cave in Belize,

01:26:09.990 --> 01:26:12.477
which at the time was the second
biggest cave in the world,

01:26:12.477 --> 01:26:14.850
and this was clearly
much bigger than that.

01:26:14.850 --> 01:26:15.683
Much bigger.

01:26:16.860 --> 01:26:20.160
So I knew we'd found
something very, very special.

01:26:20.160 --> 01:26:23.010
- [Helen] I'd never been
to Asia caving before.

01:26:23.010 --> 01:26:26.490
And I was just like, "Wow,
all caves must be like this."

01:26:26.490 --> 01:26:29.280
Like, yeah, I was 22 years old, just,

01:26:29.280 --> 01:26:30.870
and I was like, "This is amazing."

01:26:30.870 --> 01:26:33.660
I'm probably less impressed
than Adam and Trevor

01:26:33.660 --> 01:26:35.280
and lots of other people
who'd done lots of discovery,

01:26:35.280 --> 01:26:37.650
'cause I was like, "Oh, maybe
this is just what it's like."

01:26:37.650 --> 01:26:39.630
Whereas, they were just like...

01:26:39.630 --> 01:26:42.570
And I was like, "Well,
yeah, it's pretty cool."

01:26:42.570 --> 01:26:45.060
And actually now, I kind
of look back at that

01:26:45.060 --> 01:26:48.420
and I think that was
so incredibly special.

01:26:48.420 --> 01:26:50.970
And I was so spoiled in that moment,

01:26:50.970 --> 01:26:53.190
in that first experience.

01:26:53.190 --> 01:26:54.180
If someone told me,

01:26:54.180 --> 01:26:56.760
this will be the greatest
discovery of your lifetime,

01:26:56.760 --> 01:26:59.970
at 22, you'll never be
able to top it from here,

01:26:59.970 --> 01:27:01.890
it would seem unlikely to be able to.

01:27:01.890 --> 01:27:04.803
I would have probably gone (gasps) more.

01:27:05.873 --> 01:27:09.240
(soft music)

01:27:09.240 --> 01:27:12.450
- [Adam] There is still a
lot of worthwhile research

01:27:12.450 --> 01:27:13.680
to be done in Son Doong.

01:27:13.680 --> 01:27:16.560
Things do evolve in
caves that you don't see

01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:18.120
in other parts of the world.

01:27:18.120 --> 01:27:20.220
Things can stay alive in caves

01:27:20.220 --> 01:27:23.100
perhaps that are extinct in other places.

01:27:23.100 --> 01:27:24.540
And certainly in parts of Son Doong,

01:27:24.540 --> 01:27:27.030
there are animals as unique in the world.

01:27:27.030 --> 01:27:28.410
- [Darryl] As a geologist,

01:27:28.410 --> 01:27:30.690
we look at the world sometimes
a little bit differently

01:27:30.690 --> 01:27:33.570
and we're dealing all
the time with deep time.

01:27:33.570 --> 01:27:35.460
We think about the age of the Earth,

01:27:35.460 --> 01:27:38.340
the age of this Solar System,
the age of the universe,

01:27:38.340 --> 01:27:40.110
the history of life.

01:27:40.110 --> 01:27:42.600
These caves are time capsules of the past.

01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:45.270
They're this tremendous
archive of information.

01:27:45.270 --> 01:27:47.160
And if you figure out how to read them,

01:27:47.160 --> 01:27:49.380
you're able to learn incredible detail

01:27:49.380 --> 01:27:51.930
about what happened millions of years ago.

01:27:51.930 --> 01:27:52.763
This is an area

01:27:52.763 --> 01:27:55.590
that hasn't been studied, to
my knowledge, extensively,

01:27:55.590 --> 01:27:58.290
and so there may be new
discoveries for science.

01:27:58.290 --> 01:28:00.310
- [Helen] I don't think
anyone wants to see

01:28:01.500 --> 01:28:04.470
the trash on Everest in other places.

01:28:04.470 --> 01:28:06.840
We should learn from what's
happened in the past.

01:28:06.840 --> 01:28:09.660
They have expeditions to
Everest now to pick up rubbish,

01:28:09.660 --> 01:28:13.200
and bits and pieces that the
expeditions have scattered and left.

01:28:13.200 --> 01:28:16.290
It's effectively a tip, the
world's tallest mountain.

01:28:16.290 --> 01:28:20.520
And I wouldn't want that for Son Doong.

01:28:20.520 --> 01:28:23.394
- [Jonathan] It's very
probable that at some point,

01:28:23.394 --> 01:28:25.350
the Vietnamese tourist industry

01:28:25.350 --> 01:28:26.880
and the Vietnamese government

01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:29.490
will put pressure on enabling

01:28:29.490 --> 01:28:31.440
much more universal access to the cave.

01:28:32.490 --> 01:28:34.770
And I have to say, I have
two minds about this.

01:28:34.770 --> 01:28:37.670
First of all, as a conservationist,
it will be a disaster.

01:28:38.940 --> 01:28:39.930
But on the other hand,

01:28:39.930 --> 01:28:42.660
do we as foreign conservationists
have the right to say

01:28:42.660 --> 01:28:43.890
that the Vietnamese people

01:28:43.890 --> 01:28:45.660
are not allowed to go
and see this great cave

01:28:45.660 --> 01:28:46.620
in their country.

01:28:46.620 --> 01:28:51.330
So I'm hoping that they hold off.

01:28:51.330 --> 01:28:55.923
But...it's gonna be such
a temptation for them.

01:28:56.856 --> 01:28:59.689
(heartfelt music)

01:29:02.224 --> 01:29:04.974
(water swishing)

01:29:07.260 --> 01:29:10.350
- [Huong] Sometimes I got
this really weird conflict

01:29:10.350 --> 01:29:14.280
within myself after I
discover a beautiful place.

01:29:14.280 --> 01:29:15.600
Should I tell people about it?

01:29:15.600 --> 01:29:17.725
Should I not tell people about it?

01:29:17.725 --> 01:29:19.470
It may sound conflicting,

01:29:19.470 --> 01:29:24.300
but as an educator myself,
I don't believe in the idea

01:29:24.300 --> 01:29:27.450
of hiding information from people.

01:29:27.450 --> 01:29:30.060
People should know about
beautiful places in their country.

01:29:30.060 --> 01:29:31.860
People should feel proud.

01:29:31.860 --> 01:29:34.800
And hopefully that pride
will be what motivates them

01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:37.116
to protect those places.

01:29:37.116 --> 01:29:38.970
I actually dislike the fact

01:29:38.970 --> 01:29:41.730
that Son Doong is always advertised

01:29:41.730 --> 01:29:43.830
as the world's largest cave.

01:29:43.830 --> 01:29:44.880
Yes, it is true.

01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:46.530
It is the world's largest cave,

01:29:46.530 --> 01:29:48.570
and that title probably what attracts

01:29:48.570 --> 01:29:50.820
a lot of people to this place.

01:29:50.820 --> 01:29:52.680
But I think Son Doong deserves

01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:55.380
so much more recognition than that.

01:29:55.380 --> 01:29:57.060
Me, myself, I went to Son Doong

01:29:57.060 --> 01:30:00.030
because of the fact
that it was so isolated

01:30:00.030 --> 01:30:01.500
from the outside world

01:30:01.500 --> 01:30:04.650
and its pristine charm has been preserved

01:30:04.650 --> 01:30:06.723
through millions of years.

01:30:07.800 --> 01:30:11.730
Son Doong is beautiful
because of its ecosystem.

01:30:11.730 --> 01:30:12.817
Inside this cave,

01:30:12.817 --> 01:30:16.350
there are two jungles,
two rivers, one waterfall.

01:30:16.350 --> 01:30:19.080
There is even fog inside the cave

01:30:19.080 --> 01:30:22.530
that makes you sometimes
forget that you're underground.

01:30:22.530 --> 01:30:25.050
Now imagine the same cave,

01:30:25.050 --> 01:30:29.220
but without the living
ecosystem inside Son Doong.

01:30:29.220 --> 01:30:30.150
Would it be beautiful

01:30:30.150 --> 01:30:32.790
or just gonna be the worst largest hole?

01:30:32.790 --> 01:30:37.680
An empty chamber with no
habitats, nothing. It's dead.

01:30:37.680 --> 01:30:39.270
It's gonna be very boring

01:30:39.270 --> 01:30:40.890
if you're just gonna walk through a hole

01:30:40.890 --> 01:30:43.323
for like 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 days.

01:30:44.370 --> 01:30:49.080
So Son Doong deserves some
time for us to study and admire

01:30:49.080 --> 01:30:53.300
before we let human beings
in and destroy everything.

01:30:57.960 --> 01:31:00.720
- [Jonathan] People are a lot more
conscious now of what can happen.

01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:04.500
And these vulnerable indigenous cultures

01:31:04.500 --> 01:31:07.320
are also sensitive to their impact.

01:31:07.320 --> 01:31:11.760
So there's a lot more
experience in the world

01:31:11.760 --> 01:31:16.470
of how a little village like
Phong Nha could be impacted

01:31:16.470 --> 01:31:18.270
because of the value of the cave.

01:31:18.270 --> 01:31:22.200
I would say Phong Nha will
become a lot more accessible.

01:31:22.200 --> 01:31:23.490
There'll be...

01:31:23.490 --> 01:31:24.360
Well, it depends.

01:31:24.360 --> 01:31:25.470
It's hard to know.

01:31:25.470 --> 01:31:27.690
- [Denise] It's inevitable, it's coming.

01:31:27.690 --> 01:31:30.140
There will be a cable car at some point.

01:31:30.140 --> 01:31:33.630
We can talk about how we don't
want it as much as we want,

01:31:33.630 --> 01:31:36.090
but it is going to happen.

01:31:36.090 --> 01:31:39.690
So it'd be nice if the right
people are on the committees.

01:31:39.690 --> 01:31:41.040
That's all we can pray for,

01:31:41.040 --> 01:31:44.550
is that those types of people are in place

01:31:44.550 --> 01:31:47.700
and direct the growth that we have.

01:31:47.700 --> 01:31:49.890
And it's not just about the money.

01:31:49.890 --> 01:31:52.170
It's about responsible tourism.

01:31:52.170 --> 01:31:55.590
- [Multi] So it's inevitable,
but I can still care about 'em.

01:31:55.590 --> 01:31:59.967
So, yeah, the care's
still there. (chuckles)

01:32:03.240 --> 01:32:05.853
But, yeah, you're right.

01:32:06.750 --> 01:32:07.833
It's inevitable.

01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:16.550
But being here on the ground...

01:32:18.210 --> 01:32:21.213
Yeah, so for me, being
here and seeing it happen.

01:32:22.140 --> 01:32:25.113
Sometimes in history you've
been able to deflect it.

01:32:26.307 --> 01:32:27.730
So, yeah, I suppose it would've been nice

01:32:27.730 --> 01:32:29.771
to be able to deflect it.

01:32:29.771 --> 01:32:32.807
(people chattering)
(crickets chirping)

01:32:32.807 --> 01:32:35.460
(orchestral music)

01:32:35.460 --> 01:32:38.850
- [Huong] If we put human
beings as the center of it all,

01:32:38.850 --> 01:32:40.920
then I think of the feeling that I had.

01:32:40.920 --> 01:32:43.500
The overwhelming feeling that I had

01:32:43.500 --> 01:32:44.793
when I went to Son Doong.

01:32:46.067 --> 01:32:48.150
I want my children to feel the same.

01:32:49.290 --> 01:32:53.490
The pride I felt when they
discovered this place.

01:32:53.490 --> 01:32:55.260
I want my children to be proud, too,

01:32:55.260 --> 01:32:57.260
when they talk about their home country.

01:32:58.110 --> 01:33:00.540
I love this country very much.

01:33:00.540 --> 01:33:03.360
And to think that my
children would grow up

01:33:03.360 --> 01:33:06.300
not being able to enjoy
what I'm enjoying right now,

01:33:06.300 --> 01:33:10.470
just like how whenever I hear
stories from my grandmother

01:33:10.470 --> 01:33:14.850
about how beautiful Ho Chi Minh
used to be compared to now.

01:33:14.850 --> 01:33:17.663
Yeah, I don't want
history to repeat itself.

01:33:17.663 --> 01:33:20.580
(orchestral music)

01:33:29.262 --> 01:33:30.542
(atmospheric whooshing)

01:33:30.542 --> 01:33:33.542
(people chattering)

01:33:35.137 --> 01:33:37.887
(birds chirping)

01:33:39.581 --> 01:33:42.243
(atmospheric whooshing)

01:33:42.243 --> 01:33:44.993
(water swishing)

01:33:52.178 --> 01:33:55.428
(atmospheric whooshing)

01:33:58.144 --> 01:34:00.727
(gentle music)

01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:10.290
- [Hai] I know that it's a lot
of bad things still going on.

01:34:10.290 --> 01:34:11.580
There's a lot of awful things.

01:34:11.580 --> 01:34:13.260
A lot of drama in the background.

01:34:13.260 --> 01:34:16.560
A lot of games, a lot of
fighting, whatever shit.

01:34:16.560 --> 01:34:19.650
But the point is, at the end of the day,

01:34:19.650 --> 01:34:21.900
There's still a lot of
positive thing with that.

01:34:22.740 --> 01:34:24.831
The good cake as always,

01:34:24.831 --> 01:34:28.050
will attract a lot of greedy people.

01:34:28.050 --> 01:34:31.620
But if they work singularly, individually,

01:34:31.620 --> 01:34:35.370
I don't think it will not be
welcomed by the community.

01:34:35.370 --> 01:34:37.710
Everything has two faces.

01:34:37.710 --> 01:34:40.320
One is the good, one is the bad.

01:34:40.320 --> 01:34:42.960
So with all the bad thing happening,

01:34:42.960 --> 01:34:46.530
I'm pretty confident if people
know how to work together,

01:34:46.530 --> 01:34:48.213
Phong Nha, I think, will be good.

01:34:49.110 --> 01:34:52.793
But it needs some time, for us to learn.

01:34:53.865 --> 01:34:58.069
(water swishing)
(atmospheric rumbling)

01:34:58.069 --> 01:35:00.986
(orchestral music)

01:35:28.544 --> 01:35:31.884
- [Woman] Thank you,
everybody, for coming today.

01:35:31.884 --> 01:35:34.350
(speaking in Vietnamese)

01:35:34.350 --> 01:35:37.799
We want to protect our environment, yes?

01:35:37.799 --> 01:35:38.885
- [Children] Yes.

01:35:38.885 --> 01:35:42.548
- Okay, today we pick up rubbish, yes?

01:35:42.548 --> 01:35:46.223
(children clapping)

01:35:46.223 --> 01:35:49.556
(singing in Vietnamese)

01:37:13.053 --> 01:37:15.302
- [Giang] Well, the good sign
is that, a few years ago,

01:37:15.302 --> 01:37:17.220
the national government announced that.

01:37:17.220 --> 01:37:19.775
But we are very cautious.

01:37:19.775 --> 01:37:24.240
There's no...there's nothing
who held them accountable

01:37:24.240 --> 01:37:25.470
for that statement.

01:37:25.470 --> 01:37:28.860
Governments come and go, so
now we got a new government.

01:37:28.860 --> 01:37:33.120
And they all can have a
different thought on that, right?

01:37:33.120 --> 01:37:33.953
They can turn around

01:37:33.953 --> 01:37:36.360
and say, "Hey, look, well, things change.

01:37:36.360 --> 01:37:39.240
Now we need to rethink our priority

01:37:39.240 --> 01:37:41.280
and this is what we should do now."

01:37:41.280 --> 01:37:46.170
So that number, 10 years,
is just a symbolic number.

01:37:46.170 --> 01:37:50.907
It says that they are not
ready to do that right now,

01:37:50.907 --> 01:37:52.110
but it doesn't mean

01:37:52.110 --> 01:37:54.810
that they will not try it again in future.

01:37:54.810 --> 01:37:56.430
- [Huong] We're keeping our finger crossed

01:37:56.430 --> 01:38:01.430
that the side that's leaning
towards conservation is winning.

01:38:01.435 --> 01:38:05.370
But then again, they always
say "as of right now."

01:38:05.370 --> 01:38:08.930
Even though UNESCO did ask them to cancel

01:38:08.930 --> 01:38:13.925
all cable car plans to
Son Doong permanently,

01:38:15.450 --> 01:38:17.100
they have never said "permanently."

01:38:17.100 --> 01:38:20.157
They always give a
timeline, "oh, until 2030,"

01:38:21.355 --> 01:38:22.230
or "as of right now."

01:38:22.230 --> 01:38:27.230
So, I still believe that this
is an ongoing campaign for us.

01:38:28.171 --> 01:38:32.996
(singing in Vietnamese)