WEBVTT

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The whole idea of glucose

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My own family that is the
direct family or with all

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15 of us and out of these
15 only three of us

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left my or less plotted

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was poisoned by Indonesian
collisions are lost to

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all these products one but endo three sons.

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My brothers killed and executed in front
of my eyes by the Indonesian military

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East Timor is a tiny country
just 400 miles to the north of

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Australia a Portuguese colony for more
than 400 years East Timor was invaded

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in 1975 by Indonesia the
fifth largest nation in

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the world led by a military
dictatorship Indonesia has

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no historical nor legal claim to East
Timor yet it\'s brutal occupation

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has met with mostly silence from

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the world\'s leading governments
and international agencies.

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What happened here 18 years
ago happen mostly in

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secret and this filming
is being done in secret.

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Without the approval or knowledge or

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the Indonesian authorities Journalists and
independent observers are not welcome in

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East Timor to Australia and television teams
including two Britons were murdered here in

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1975 by the Indonesian
army for trying to breach

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the wall of silence that the regime
in Jakarta and its Western allies.

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Had built around East Timor as a result of
the Indonesian invasion and occupation.

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Some 200 thousand people died here
that\'s a third of the population or

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proportionately more than
were killed in Cambodia Under

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Pol Pot they were killed
resisting the invasion.

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They were murdered without reason
they died in concentration camps

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and they starved perhaps genocide
is too often use these days

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but by any standards that\'s what\'s happened

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here and it happened mostly beyond
the reach of the TV camera and

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the satellite dish and
with the connivance and

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complicity of western governments
the same governments that were

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prepared to go to war against Saddam
Hussein but we\'re not prepared and

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almost parallel circumstances
to stop or a patient\'s invader.

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That had broken every provision in
the United Nations Charter And uh

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defied no less than ten United
Nations sanctioning resolutions

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calling honor to withdraw from East
Timor we should keep our heads

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down set of British Ambassador to Indonesia
and let matters take their course.

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Letting matters take their course.

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The governments of Britain the
United States Australia and

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others supplied the means by
which the regime and Jakarta.

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Has bled East Timor This film is

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the story of that bleeding and over
cover up that tells us much about

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the selectivity and aims of great power
and how the modern world is ordered

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Cuz injuries warm fuzzy in a
Guevara component embrace

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the Mofolo mudra Weimar Soyuz tennis shoe

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wound in terrorist manners into

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seven unknowns settings is
multidisciplinary and intervention

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cultural maintain morale military commit.

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My responsibility is to my own people
and to my own constituents and I

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didn\'t really fill my mind much with what

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one set of foreigners is doing to

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another One has to say what is it
that said dreadfully special about

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East Timor to the people here I\'m 13th
December 1983 the military to my brothers

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and keel in front of my eyes and
they pull out after a kill they pull

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out their heart and showed
to us that it\'s 30 heart.

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Now He must increase the integration
Indonesian government has

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played as strategy of not
allowing people to go

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into East Timor There are
no tourists no cameras

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no journalists were allowed in
but the people of East Timor

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themselves suffered so much that
you can see through their eyes.

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There is a fear.

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All the ISAs it all you don\'t have
to talk to the people of East Timor

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and even the little children shows in their
eyes in their face they they never smile.

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There\'s not one single family
that has not lost a member of

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the family they always have
a story to say in terms of

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women being raped or young boys

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would be just snatched from his house
and never been able to see it again

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And this kind of torture has
constantly happen if anybody\'s on

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a daily basis Timor is a land of

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crosses crosses etched against the sky
crosses on peeks crosses on hillsides.

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This is the grave of just one family or killed
on the same day the people in East Timor

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themselves call it we call
it the biggest prison island

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in the world that is
what it is it\'s a hell.

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Can you give me an idea of
what it was like to grow up

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in East Timor and those years
before the invasion Well it was

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typical Ireland life in which
people live very happily in

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a friendly people go about the business
without worrying about Authorities of guns.

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Even though we were ruled by a
foreign power which was Portuguese.

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Then Portuguese very much to left people alone
in a traditional lives they didn\'t do but

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Indonesia have done in the
last 18 years not once ever in

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all my adult life I witnessed

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a racial incident So esteem was
in fact under the Portuguese.

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Was a relatively happy
country the Portuguese also

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had a benign attitude towards HTML is
you might discard it benign neglect.

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I would say they treated the
people reasonably they never

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interfere with the people in amount
is not so much maybe out of a\'s is.

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Intellectual anthropological understanding
of native culture but largely

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because of the Portuguese very Mediterranean
laziness neglect laissez faire

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so the people were quite happy

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the Mounties pyrolyze the ruins
of the Portuguese empire in

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Timor The Indonesian regime
has sought to justify

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its occupation of this country on grounds
of what it calls common brotherhood.

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In fact these team Murray\'s have virtually
nothing in common with Indonesia they have

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a different language and
culture and whereas

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Indonesia is the largest
Muslim country in the world.

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These team are 0s are Catholic and

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animist even their colonial
experience was different with

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the Portuguese Latinized
East Timor and setting it

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distinctly apart from the
experiences of the Dutch colonies.

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But became Indonesia.

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I\'ve caused some things never change
like the propaganda of naked aggression

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When the Germans overran and occupied
most of Europe they to use the term.

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Common brotherhood. This was

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Indonesia in the mid 19 sixties books were
burned and popular democracy crushed.

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When General Suharto came to
power in the west Indonesia was

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seen as an investor\'s paradise
a huge market rich in oil and

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other natural resources Richard
Nixon called Indonesia the greatest

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priors in Southeast Asia Suharto
and his generals were Welcome to

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the free world This

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is Indonesia today these people are

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secretly unearthing a mass grave of
victims of Suharto is military coup.

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An estimated 0.5 million of
his own people were killed.

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Most of them landless
peasants accused of being

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communist declassified documents show

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that the United States actively
supported the Indonesian generals.

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The American ambassador assured them
that Washington is sympathetic with and

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admiring of what the Army is doing these
people are finding the bones of relatives.

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Whose murder almost 30 years ago was the
precursor for the coming genocide In East Timor

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in September 1970 for

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the Australian Prime Minister Gough
Whitlam flew to Indonesia to meet

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General Suharto Whitlam regarded good
relations with Indonesia as vital to

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Australia\'s strategic and economic
interests in Asia wetland had supported

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the rights of small nations all
over the world but he believed

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East Timor was different
according to journalists

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brief by Australian officials
Wetlands clear signal to

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Suharto was that East Timor should
become part of Indonesia Whitlam

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believes at the Sydney Morning Herald that

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an independent team or would
be an unviable state and

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a potential threat to the
area during those meetings.

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Was too good for them really made three
things fairly clear one was that

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when East Timor came to be decolonized he
thought it would be logical and sensible.

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For it to become part of
Indonesia because after

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all the Indonesian archipelago
already surrounded it.

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Secondly he put the view
that That should be

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achieved through an act of
self-determination and had in mind I

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think period of sort of education
preparation and thirdly he

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made it also play in that if if
the situation did deteriorate.

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Four should not be used what the he\'s

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team Murray\'s as far as western governments
are concerned and especially Australia.

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Simply expandable.

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Not as far as Australia was
concerned Australia has

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a considerable debt to these
team are 0s which goes back to

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World War Two and that\'s one
of the reasons why it was

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an agonizing situation for Australia I
would agree with you it was somewhat.

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These tumors were probably
seen as expendable Bye So

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the hard nosed major power brokers if you

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like more than a year

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before the invasion took place we didn\'t
know that an organisation had been formed.

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Which was designed to bring about
the integration of East Timor

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regardless of the wishes of the
people is actually part of

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the operations of this upper RC Commodore
this verse of operation setup in late 1974 in

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October 1970 for this man
General Benny Madani

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Launched a conspiracy with three other
generals close to suharto it was

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Operation Komodo the objective was

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to destroy East Timor was
growing independence movement

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which had produced three
political groups and promised

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a flourishing democracy in January 19 75.

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The main nationalist
party Fredlund and it\'s

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more conservative opponents UDDT
formed a coalition which had

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one aim independence but in
Indonesian agents infiltrated

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the coalition undermining it and finally
destroying it this led to civil war

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By now the Portuguese had stepped aside.

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After two weeks of fighting which
would cost an estimated 1500

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lives Fredlund emerge the clear
winner and commanded the support of

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the majority of the population they readily

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recognized and repeatedly told me
that they must have the Portuguese

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come back and continuous
decolonization when the Indonesians

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began their military intervention there
was no civil war There was no contest or

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Fredlund controlled in any part of East Timor
that was alive that kept coming out from

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Jakarta is actually part of the
operations of this upper RC Commodore.

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The small nation was left to
defend itself completely on

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its own Western intelligence
knew in advance every move

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the Indonesians made through a
top-secret monitoring base near Darwin.

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On September the fourth the
CIA reported to Washington to

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Indonesian Special Forces groups
have entered Portuguese Timor and on

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September the 17th Jakarta is
now sending gorillas to provoke

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incidents that provide
an excuse to invade We

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appeal in not only dose delivered to all
democratic forces in the world will stop

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Dayton as violation of our
territory is criminal attain

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but criminal actors should stop immediately
my old democratic countries in

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the world you knew in advance to

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ensure that the Indonesian invasion was
going to happen and you for warned.

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Which I knew in advance for assessing

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the situation as it was developing I did
Campbell\'s conclusion has a number of

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other ambassadors in Jakarta in 1975 that
Indonesia intervention was inevitable in

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these circumstances This is

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Greg shackled and a television journalists
from Channel seven Australia.

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Here and his crew and another
Australian crew from Channel nine.

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Set out to get proof that the
Indonesian invasion had secretly begun.

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There were five of them
including to Britain us

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if they could expose Indonesia\'s
clandestine operation.

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International pressure might stop it
they drove to the coastal town of

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Bally Bo where Indonesian
ships have been cited

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this was Greg shackled ans last report
the day before he was murdered.

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Why they ask The Indonesians invading

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us why they ask if the Indonesians
believe that Fredlund as communists

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to the not sent a delegation
to delete to find

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out why they ask are the
Australians not helping us

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when the Japanese invaded
they did help us why they

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asked her the Portuguese not helping
us with still a Portuguese colony.

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Who they asked. Will pay for the terrible
damage to our homes we looked like being

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the last people left in the town
in the meantime we\'ve drawn

00:17:11.914 --> 00:17:16.488
our house with the word Australia
in red and the Australian flag.

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We\'re hoping it will
afford us some protection.

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This is a great shackled him
for seven national news at

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Valley bulbs These witnesses
who\'ve said by herd

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the Australian journalists
shouting Australian journalists

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non-combat Then they said the hood
fire and there was Nemo sound.

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What happened to Greg and his companions.

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I don\'t know whether it happened to Greg.

00:17:46.144 --> 00:17:50.119
Or which of the five but the
majority of them were hung up by

00:17:50.120 --> 00:17:55.009
the feet the sexual organs
were removed and pushed into

00:17:55.010 --> 00:17:58.219
their mouths die was stabbed with

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the short throwing knives
that the Indonesian soldiers

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carry and it isn\'t line whether they

00:18:04.879 --> 00:18:09.468
fixated Or whether they
bled to death or whether

00:18:09.469 --> 00:18:13.969
some of them got stabbed in the
heart and died quickly the ceiling

00:18:13.970 --> 00:18:17.628
was set because this is quite
common way to punish people in

00:18:17.629 --> 00:18:21.799
East Timor bodies are often found this
way and so the team raise to have

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a fair idea that it takes a long time by
6EI unusually good Australian government.

00:18:31.700 --> 00:18:34.818
Ever protest to the
Indonesian government so

00:18:34.819 --> 00:18:38.479
the deaths of claim lady component that

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.904
climate that they asked
publicly publicly protest.

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They asked diplomatic questions
which allowed them to get

00:18:46.910 --> 00:18:52.729
diplomatic answers Well I
certainly delivered protests as

00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:55.068
ambassador at the time I guess
they\'re not at the level

00:18:55.069 --> 00:18:57.409
of the Prime Minister of
course but but isn\'t that

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pretty serious when to television crews are

00:18:59.689 --> 00:19:02.434
gunned down by Indonesians
and in this country.

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No one stands up the leader of the
country doesn\'t stand up and protest in

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.859
the most vigorous language
to those who have done it

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well let me say that F that
tarnishes Octavian argued 75.

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First of all there was considerable
uncertainty in the early days about

00:19:19.339 --> 00:19:24.558
the facts about how they died
and there was there\'s now

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.528
been I think you know
there\'s now been plenty of

00:19:27.529 --> 00:19:33.003
released intelligence documentation
That suggests very strongly that

00:19:33.004 --> 00:19:38.089
Australia like the other Western powers
knew exactly what was going on and knew

00:19:38.090 --> 00:19:43.294
what had happened to these
journalists within hours of

00:19:43.295 --> 00:19:47.359
water that we knew as in
as I was ours but within

00:19:47.360 --> 00:19:52.009
days anyway the type being
killed and not even to this day

00:19:52.010 --> 00:19:55.339
precisely sure what happened except
I very unwise to be where they

00:19:55.340 --> 00:20:01.354
were it subsequently proved to be unwise.

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But Greg would never have expected
to be murdered because of

00:20:04.580 --> 00:20:07.594
the very good relationship that people like

00:20:07.595 --> 00:20:10.188
Walcott was very busy

00:20:10.189 --> 00:20:15.573
proclaiming That would be the last thing
great would have expected to happen.

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He had no why would they kill them.

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Well of course what he didn\'t know
was that they had every intention of

00:20:22.730 --> 00:20:26.029
invading East Timor and they didn\'t want

00:20:26.030 --> 00:20:29.089
the world to know it\'s clear that

00:20:29.090 --> 00:20:32.928
western governments knew exactly
what the Indonesians were planning.

00:20:32.929 --> 00:20:37.249
Here\'s a selection of secret
diplomatic messages sent from

00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:41.479
Jakarta by the ambassadors
of Britain Australia and

00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:46.189
the United States the British
ambassador said John Archibald Ford

00:20:46.190 --> 00:20:51.184
cabled It is in Britain\'s interests that
Indonesia absorbed their territory.

00:20:51.185 --> 00:20:56.629
Has soon and unobtrusively as possible And
when it comes to the crunch we should

00:20:56.630 --> 00:21:02.508
keep our heads down the Australian Ambassador
Richard Walcott cabled his government.

00:21:02.509 --> 00:21:04.518
Although we know it\'s not true

00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.358
the formal position of the Indonesian
government is that there is

00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:10.939
no Indonesian military intervention in

00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:15.483
East Timor he meant of course
that the Indonesians were lying.

00:21:15.484 --> 00:21:19.983
Although he strongly advised his
government not to question the lie.

00:21:19.984 --> 00:21:24.259
We should act he cabled In
a way designed to minimize

00:21:24.260 --> 00:21:28.429
the public impact in Australia And
show private understanding to

00:21:28.430 --> 00:21:32.209
the Indonesians of their
problem the American

00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:37.099
ambassador noted simply that he hoped
the Indonesians would be effective.

00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:40.649
Quick and not use our equipment

00:21:49.870 --> 00:21:55.789
by December 19 75 that countdown to
the invasion of East Timor was in

00:21:55.790 --> 00:21:59.088
its final stages President
Gerald Ford and his

00:21:59.089 --> 00:22:02.644
Secretary of State Henry
Kissinger arrived in Indonesia.

00:22:02.645 --> 00:22:04.099
On December the fifth.

00:22:04.100 --> 00:22:07.353
On a visit described by a
state department official.

00:22:07.354 --> 00:22:13.923
As the big wink As an example

00:22:13.924 --> 00:22:20.598
of Ben there certain knowledge of what
was about to happen the Embassy staff.

00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:24.918
We\'re taking an unusual measures to plan

00:22:24.919 --> 00:22:30.349
as many photo and visual
opportunities to present Ford and

00:22:30.350 --> 00:22:34.878
suharto together demonstrating
unlimited support for

00:22:34.879 --> 00:22:37.368
Suharto and the Indonesian government

00:22:37.369 --> 00:22:41.253
and I thought wait a minute
something is seriously wrong here.

00:22:41.254 --> 00:22:44.179
Hi joined CIA many years ago in the early

00:22:44.180 --> 00:22:49.638
sixty\'s because I was one of these
fellows who thought into instead

00:22:49.639 --> 00:22:54.438
of Complaining about what was going on
in the world and doing nothing about

00:22:54.439 --> 00:22:57.019
it you might be able to accomplish

00:22:57.020 --> 00:23:00.048
something good and when I was
in a situation in Tunisia.

00:23:00.049 --> 00:23:08.049
What I saw instead was my own government was
very much involved in what was going on in

00:23:10.129 --> 00:23:18.129
East Timor and what was going on was not good
you can be 100% certain that Suharto was

00:23:19.385 --> 00:23:27.385
explicitly given the green light to
do what he did what The Americans

00:23:29.629 --> 00:23:35.569
persuaded the Indonesians to delay the invasion
until after the President had left and on

00:23:35.570 --> 00:23:38.809
December the seventh has the
presidential jet climbed

00:23:38.810 --> 00:23:43.350
out of Indonesian air
space the bloodbath began

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.978
A lot of people are being
pulled directly inwards Brennan

00:24:29.979 --> 00:24:31.339
either

00:24:44.970 --> 00:24:46.058
the

00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:48.098
first day\'s hundreds

00:24:48.099 --> 00:24:50.694
and hundreds of people
were simply massacre.

00:24:50.695 --> 00:24:55.448
Upon the Indonesian top arrival
in Delhi They\'re fully

00:24:55.449 --> 00:25:00.664
Moktar Ould burger main two cuz Indonesia
after Caracalla zoologists realize

00:25:00.665 --> 00:25:05.718
why intensive Bombardier
maintenant don\'t waste it us motto

00:25:05.719 --> 00:25:12.930
ME Ophelia Konwinski ones for
me to introduce Indonesia.

00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:18.948
These are the hopes of
Indonesian landing craft left to

00:25:18.949 --> 00:25:22.488
stop remind us to the population
on the beach and the center of

00:25:22.489 --> 00:25:26.059
delay when the Indonesians landed here they

00:25:26.060 --> 00:25:29.839
began an operation that is being
compared in its savagery.

00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:34.153
With Paul Potts takeover of Cambodia
Hundreds of people what gotten

00:25:34.154 --> 00:25:38.644
down on the streets in schools
and shops in the Huns

00:25:38.645 --> 00:25:43.159
in the hospital live grenades
were thrown into houses women and

00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:47.854
girls are raped in front of their
families the Indonesian troops had been

00:25:47.855 --> 00:25:52.879
told but the team Murray\'s what
communists and primitives that threatened

00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.549
the very existence of Indonesia itself

00:25:55.550 --> 00:26:00.303
the strategy was clearly to
terrorize and entire nation.

00:26:00.304 --> 00:26:03.544
We were learning about it from.

00:26:03.545 --> 00:26:10.129
Hard firm reports from people on
the scene in East Timor reports

00:26:10.130 --> 00:26:16.788
of people being herded into school
buildings by Indonesian soldiers.

00:26:16.789 --> 00:26:19.788
Was to buildings set on fire and

00:26:19.789 --> 00:26:24.139
anyone trying to get out being shot
most of people being burned alive.

00:26:24.140 --> 00:26:27.889
People being herded into fields
and machine gun and people being

00:26:27.890 --> 00:26:31.578
hunted down in the mountains
so anyone out there was in

00:26:31.579 --> 00:26:39.579
what amounted to a free fire zone but it was
also a systematic pattern to the Tara to

00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:46.848
many team arrays that glistening ocean is
still known as the sea of black people

00:26:46.849 --> 00:26:49.848
were brought here today
and groups and as in

00:26:49.849 --> 00:26:53.134
Cambodia often the first
to die with the educated.

00:26:53.135 --> 00:26:59.478
Public officials teachers students nurses
One eye witness reported the words of

00:26:59.479 --> 00:27:02.479
an innovation officer
to and asked to justify

00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.948
the mass killing of women and children
said when you clean the field.

00:27:06.949 --> 00:27:11.699
Don\'t you kill all the
snakes both large and small.

00:27:14.170 --> 00:27:19.053
Out of our clan which at
that time in semaphore as I

00:27:19.054 --> 00:27:23.524
as I know it as I knew them was out of

00:27:23.525 --> 00:27:27.948
5 thousand and the number have reduced to

00:27:27.949 --> 00:27:34.369
about 500 to 5,600 years
It\'s very very reduced.

00:27:34.370 --> 00:27:38.449
That\'s extraordinary
slaughter and there was

00:27:38.450 --> 00:27:44.509
a massive massive bombardment that took place
people even said that the whole rock became

00:27:44.510 --> 00:27:48.648
white because all the trees and
grass and gone and rocks were all

00:27:48.649 --> 00:27:53.118
blown up we were providing most of

00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:57.244
the weaponry helicopters
logistical support food uniforms

00:27:57.245 --> 00:28:02.699
ammunition holy expendables are the
Indonesians needed to conduct this war.

00:28:03.670 --> 00:28:07.039
When Henry Kissinger
returned to Washington.

00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:09.094
He summoned his senior aides.

00:28:09.095 --> 00:28:12.408
According to the minutes of that
meeting Kissinger expressed

00:28:12.409 --> 00:28:16.489
his fair that the Congress and
public Find out about his complicity

00:28:16.490 --> 00:28:21.768
with the Suharto regime Kissinger on
the team or thing that will leak in

00:28:21.769 --> 00:28:24.168
three months and it will
come out that Kissinger

00:28:24.169 --> 00:28:27.709
overruled his pristine bureaucrats
and violated the law.

00:28:27.710 --> 00:28:31.489
How many people know
about this staff member.

00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:35.629
Three Kissinger plus
everybody in this meeting.

00:28:35.630 --> 00:28:38.193
Everything on paper will
be used against me.

00:28:38.194 --> 00:28:42.933
Can\'t we construe a communist government in
the middle of Indonesia as self-defense.

00:28:42.934 --> 00:28:46.188
He gave orders that
shipments of American arms.

00:28:46.189 --> 00:28:47.734
Be stopped quietly.

00:28:47.735 --> 00:28:51.514
But secretly started again
the next month in fact.

00:28:51.515 --> 00:28:55.369
As the killings increased in East
Timor American arms shipments

00:28:55.370 --> 00:29:00.724
doubled As month went by the war went on

00:29:00.725 --> 00:29:05.778
one of my sister Medea Xenia
by then 917 years old in

00:29:05.779 --> 00:29:11.869
1977 was killed during an air raid
carried out by denotion at force.

00:29:11.870 --> 00:29:19.518
Using a Bronco aircraft to America sublime
Bronco aircraft nose dive to a village.

00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.668
Somewhere in the remote countryside.

00:29:22.669 --> 00:29:26.103
And opened fire on the village.

00:29:26.104 --> 00:29:30.678
At that particular moment there were no gorilla
troops there only civilian population.

00:29:30.679 --> 00:29:34.414
My Cseh was there she was
running the local school.

00:29:34.415 --> 00:29:37.158
She ended 20 kids at least what

00:29:37.159 --> 00:29:44.479
killed In

00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.674
1981 the Indonesian military force march

00:29:47.675 --> 00:29:52.639
tens of thousands of people at gunpoint
in human chains across the island.

00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:58.593
This was known as the fence of legs the
aim was to flush out Fredlund gorillas.

00:29:58.594 --> 00:30:03.933
With Indonesian troops following on behind
and pursuing them into human corrals.

00:30:03.934 --> 00:30:06.334
Where they could be captured or killed

00:30:06.335 --> 00:30:10.098
thousands of civilians died
in the operation including

00:30:10.099 --> 00:30:16.464
children and old people lento present
limpieza cookies via Turkey.

00:30:16.465 --> 00:30:21.004
Just mortage Jeff Tantalus corpus.

00:30:21.005 --> 00:30:25.878
Whose cadavers that. numer otra forma
gets numb to the subarray committers

00:30:25.879 --> 00:30:31.099
potassium leakage metazoan okay sir to cues

00:30:31.100 --> 00:30:38.228
girlish second dogmas photography is he
spoke man\'s milliliters common Dante\'s

00:30:38.229 --> 00:30:42.573
Stirum photographer on the forum more

00:30:42.574 --> 00:30:47.168
albums from Mozzafar forum
toe-to-toe adds spoke wish.

00:30:47.169 --> 00:30:55.169
A tame raring against foreign capital physical
address august forum a tangency cortados

00:30:57.320 --> 00:31:05.320
podiatrists in Attica
strategy He followed the law

00:31:05.450 --> 00:31:13.450
does married for almost two
years following the invasion.

00:31:14.315 --> 00:31:16.563
There was virtually a news blackout.

00:31:16.564 --> 00:31:20.809
Over events in East Timor
then turn nuns in Portugal

00:31:20.810 --> 00:31:26.839
received this letter from a priest in
East Timor the invaders he wrote have

00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:28.819
intensified their attacks in

00:31:28.820 --> 00:31:34.114
the three classic ways from land sea
and air the bombers do not stop.

00:31:34.115 --> 00:31:38.569
Hundreds die every day the bodies
of the victims become food

00:31:38.570 --> 00:31:43.204
for carnivorous birds villages
have been completely destroyed

00:31:43.205 --> 00:31:49.309
The barbarity is understandable in the
Middle Ages justifiable in the Stone Age and

00:31:49.310 --> 00:31:52.548
organized evil that has
spread deep roots in

00:31:52.549 --> 00:31:56.029
East Timor the terror of
arbitrary imprisonment.

00:31:56.030 --> 00:31:57.678
Is our daily bread.

00:31:57.679 --> 00:32:00.739
I am on the persona non grata list and

00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:04.399
any day I could disappear
Fredlund soldiers who give

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:11.118
themselves up how disposed off for
them there is no prison genocide.

00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:11.749
Will come

00:32:11.750 --> 00:32:13.079
through

00:32:20.710 --> 00:32:22.159
on

00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:25.579
Top of the mountain was up space Was there

00:32:25.580 --> 00:32:29.539
many of bones on top of
each other and just said Oh

00:32:29.540 --> 00:32:34.399
please pray Fatima DC\'s our families

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:39.349
mapped part of our family died
here was a massacre here and it is

00:32:39.350 --> 00:32:45.049
not a bonus from animals they
are our family come across

00:32:45.050 --> 00:32:51.453
the bones of people who belonged to your
family it\'s right people with the harmony.

00:32:51.454 --> 00:32:59.400
The bones of how many people and I go dead
was many I believed at about 50 people

00:33:23.550 --> 00:33:27.144
These are rare pictures
of Fredlund guerrillas.

00:33:27.145 --> 00:33:31.869
Still fighting on after 18 years
we film them under the noses

00:33:31.870 --> 00:33:36.669
of the Indonesian army which claims
to control all of East Timor they

00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:39.459
get no outside help from any government or

00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:43.178
their weapons are captured from the
Indonesians some have not seen

00:33:43.179 --> 00:33:47.138
their families for years and every
man here has lost members of

00:33:47.139 --> 00:33:50.739
his family They\'ll film became

00:33:50.740 --> 00:33:55.314
a gorilla after witnessing one
of the most notorious massacres.

00:33:55.315 --> 00:34:01.659
As either the Chavas for

00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:09.498
alma mater zombies Alina

00:34:09.499 --> 00:34:16.029
and obligated someone say centre.

00:34:16.030 --> 00:34:19.959
Say simply say presentation facilities.

00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:24.819
So they say don\'t regime of who when they

00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:30.519
study when they study usually
to the nosing motto.

00:34:30.520 --> 00:34:38.520
In coined Yes money is

00:34:40.669 --> 00:34:48.669
can consume from it as we gave his
forum distinguish Java\'s Yolanda\'s

00:34:49.895 --> 00:34:57.895
must have read in Manhattan and
thus the village of Caracas used to

00:35:00.739 --> 00:35:08.739
be here until it was razed to the ground by
the Indonesians that is the village that in

00:35:08.945 --> 00:35:15.119
9183 more or less For

00:35:15.120 --> 00:35:23.100
a handoff of population 400 wolf population
or were killed by Indonesia true.

00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:27.869
They were all buried here in a mass grave.

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:34.983
There is no any cross.

00:35:34.984 --> 00:35:39.094
They put only the stone and bamboos.

00:35:39.095 --> 00:35:47.095
Cause. Population Fred did when they
put a cross here or a mark here on top

00:35:49.220 --> 00:35:53.568
we have as the person who put class

00:35:53.569 --> 00:36:01.569
here This is an extraordinary list of almost
300 of those murdered in this one village.

00:36:02.260 --> 00:36:06.848
During the summer of 1983 it has
evidence of a crime against

00:36:06.849 --> 00:36:11.828
humanity reminiscent of the Nazis
in occupied Europe the list was

00:36:11.829 --> 00:36:16.419
compiled by the church in a meticulous
handwritten script that records

00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:21.548
the name age date and place of
every death of every victim.

00:36:21.549 --> 00:36:25.959
As well as the Indonesian battalion
responsible for each murder.

00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:32.090
Note the ages and how young they are
and the names of whole families

00:36:40.630 --> 00:36:46.129
The women who survived were brought
here to what is known as the village of

00:36:46.130 --> 00:36:47.909
the widow\'s

00:36:57.940 --> 00:36:59.568
another form

00:36:59.569 --> 00:37:02.778
of population control is
contraception given without

00:37:02.779 --> 00:37:06.168
the permission or knowledge of
women especially the enforced

00:37:06.169 --> 00:37:10.849
use of contraceptive
drug Depo-Provera people

00:37:10.850 --> 00:37:14.838
are forced to have Depo-Provera
injections for example there were

00:37:14.839 --> 00:37:17.568
school girls teenagers who were

00:37:17.569 --> 00:37:20.868
injected with people covera so
that they don\'t have babies

00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:28.548
anymore And what they were told was that there
was a some kind of anti tetanus injection.

00:37:28.549 --> 00:37:32.178
This doctor went to East
Timor on our behalf and

00:37:32.179 --> 00:37:35.719
secretly investigated the use
of enforced birth control.

00:37:35.720 --> 00:37:39.813
Well I heard in one clinic a
very large number of people

00:37:39.814 --> 00:37:45.588
being given birth control I think out of
all proportion to the other efforts that

00:37:45.589 --> 00:37:49.698
were being made Medical efforts
that were being made and I had

00:37:49.699 --> 00:37:55.008
many people say that the best control
injection was being given without

00:37:55.009 --> 00:38:03.009
any explanation to the people who were
receiving it as to what it was They injected

00:38:04.595 --> 00:38:09.184
devo purveyor and again one clinic

00:38:09.185 --> 00:38:14.943
claimed to have 500 women being injected
and I found that a very large number

00:38:14.944 --> 00:38:19.038
given that very little else
seemed to be going on in

00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:24.139
the clinic in 1993 general suharto received

00:38:24.140 --> 00:38:29.568
two United Nations prize for his support
for family planning the prize came with

00:38:29.569 --> 00:38:35.194
a check for $12 thousand that
many pregnant woman will net.

00:38:35.195 --> 00:38:40.459
Would not dare to go to Indonesia and
hospitals or Indonesian doctors.

00:38:40.460 --> 00:38:48.460
Because those up this will make sure that she
loses the baby This is part of a genocide

00:38:51.030 --> 00:38:55.599
East Timor had a population
according to the best roles of

00:38:55.600 --> 00:39:01.899
about 688 thousand and it was
growing at just on 2% per annum

00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:05.349
that means today is team
or ought to be it just

00:39:05.350 --> 00:39:08.439
assuming it didn\'t grow any
faster which should have

00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:11.423
a population of about 980 thousand or more

00:39:11.424 --> 00:39:14.588
honest a million the team reads
population if we look at

00:39:14.589 --> 00:39:18.458
the recent Indonesian sensors
is it the most probably

00:39:18.459 --> 00:39:23.814
650 thousand it\'s incredible and
it\'s worse than camphor cheer.

00:39:23.815 --> 00:39:28.028
Dr. swears would you agree that
what has happened in East Timor

00:39:28.029 --> 00:39:31.738
is amounted to genocide Send the video for

00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:34.308
a monetarism Gadsden yards
and tennis and just

00:39:34.309 --> 00:39:37.548
source the authors foreign
transport toddlers are

00:39:37.549 --> 00:39:40.549
falsa proto zealous he measure

00:39:40.550 --> 00:39:44.298
magnetic following two z does not
have forced several tutorial.

00:39:44.299 --> 00:39:50.523
The Timor less than Indonesia\'s
Vinge daughter serious.

00:39:50.524 --> 00:39:54.544
Pretend to over key room
of the sound the forced.

00:39:54.545 --> 00:39:59.179
Young whether they\'re Zulu CDO
attentive aesthetic affair

00:39:59.180 --> 00:40:04.534
you the sound Sweetie ENT
that match performed

00:40:04.535 --> 00:40:08.298
stewardship savage Teddy
signs lingua yellows

00:40:08.299 --> 00:40:14.778
yeah yes as happens and everywhere
including western countries

00:40:14.779 --> 00:40:22.779
you know what I\'m referring to there are some
sometimes abuses of the military authority

00:40:24.844 --> 00:40:29.374
or by government authorities but it is

00:40:29.375 --> 00:40:31.698
the commitment of the government to address

00:40:31.699 --> 00:40:35.164
this question and to
punish those responsible.

00:40:35.165 --> 00:40:39.798
I don\'t know why you ask these
questions is it is it simply

00:40:39.799 --> 00:40:44.988
to promote a better image of
Indonesia or The question that

00:40:44.989 --> 00:40:48.288
will clarify the situation of his 0V

00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:52.728
the acquisitions that was made that
insulin These are accurate I asked them

00:40:52.729 --> 00:40:57.903
because their accusations made
by people across the spectrum

00:40:57.904 --> 00:41:00.979
from as I mentioned the
President of Portugal

00:41:00.980 --> 00:41:04.309
and he said that what Indonesia
done in Timor was genocide.

00:41:04.310 --> 00:41:09.059
Well I reject. Absolutely I
rejected the acquisitions.

00:41:10.870 --> 00:41:15.468
We drove through what the
Indonesians call military control

00:41:15.469 --> 00:41:19.279
areas Where people were
forcibly moved as a means

00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:21.649
of separating them from the resistance

00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:26.538
the dislocation caused by camps like this
has struck at the very roots of team

00:41:26.539 --> 00:41:32.088
every society people are subjected to a
form of brainwashing that extols Suharto

00:41:32.089 --> 00:41:37.938
is New Order and in schools all ovaries
team or the team Murray\'s languages band.

00:41:37.939 --> 00:41:40.338
While emigrants abroad from Indonesia.

00:41:40.339 --> 00:41:43.609
To run the islands economy
and a further dilute

00:41:43.610 --> 00:41:50.524
the team Murray\'s population when you
move people away from their sacred land

00:41:50.525 --> 00:41:55.474
away from places where the leaf
for thousands of years into

00:41:55.475 --> 00:41:59.224
lower areas infested by
mosquito They are not

00:41:59.225 --> 00:42:02.973
able to move out of those camps
to cultivate for instance.

00:42:02.974 --> 00:42:05.988
There is a curfew and because
they cannot cultivate there is

00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:12.379
no food and no food they die in

00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:17.148
the late 1970s and early 80s
famine claim many thousands of

00:42:17.149 --> 00:42:22.980
lives and resettlement camps where people
were denied adequate land to grow food.

00:42:26.230 --> 00:42:29.269
Although we saw no starvation.

00:42:29.270 --> 00:42:32.820
A great many people were
terribly malnourished

00:42:43.750 --> 00:42:48.709
While the massacres continued the
agents of great power worked hard to

00:42:48.710 --> 00:42:53.359
maintain the silence in
January 19 76 the American

00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:57.949
ambassador to the United Nations
Daniel Moynihan sent a secret cable

00:42:57.950 --> 00:43:02.749
to Henry Kissinger boasting of the
considerable progress he was making

00:43:02.750 --> 00:43:06.709
in blocking U.N. action on
East Timor later Moynihan

00:43:06.710 --> 00:43:12.513
wrote the Department of State desire that the
United Nations prove utterly ineffective.

00:43:12.514 --> 00:43:15.979
This task was given to me and
I carried it through with

00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:17.299
no inconsiderable

00:43:17.300 --> 00:43:25.300
success This

00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:28.989
is the hotel flamboyant.

00:43:28.990 --> 00:43:31.329
In the old Portuguese resort town of

00:43:31.330 --> 00:43:35.439
Bachao were official visitors
were often brought to admire

00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:37.898
the peacefulness of East Timor under

00:43:37.899 --> 00:43:43.104
Indonesian rule but they weren\'t told of
course was that the hotel flamboyant.

00:43:43.105 --> 00:43:46.644
Was used by the military
has a torture place

00:43:46.645 --> 00:43:50.979
there is extensive official
documentation describing how

00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:54.608
Indonesian soldiers were
taught to dress and behave as

00:43:54.609 --> 00:43:59.244
civilians pretending to be Tim Murray\'s
whose language they didn\'t speak.

00:43:59.245 --> 00:44:04.929
Even playing the part of happy uncomplaining
prisoners in comfortable prisons that of

00:44:04.930 --> 00:44:08.059
course didn\'t exist There are also document

00:44:08.060 --> 00:44:11.328
showing that torture was
officially sanctioned.

00:44:11.329 --> 00:44:17.568
With established procedures for the torturer
one such manual is entitled guiding

00:44:17.569 --> 00:44:24.603
the village comprehensively and lists the
do\'s and don\'ts of torture and here they are.

00:44:24.604 --> 00:44:27.949
Avoid taking photographs showing torture in

00:44:27.950 --> 00:44:31.958
progress and when people are being
subjected to an electric current

00:44:31.959 --> 00:44:36.168
And when they are being stripped
naked et cetera remember

00:44:36.169 --> 00:44:40.609
not to have photograph developed
outside East Timor which could then

00:44:40.610 --> 00:44:44.884
be made available to the public
by irresponsible elements

00:44:44.885 --> 00:44:50.089
interrogations should be repeated
over and over again until

00:44:50.090 --> 00:44:51.919
the correct conclusion is

00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:59.920
drawn Josie Xamarin

00:45:01.294 --> 00:45:02.584
now in exile.

00:45:02.585 --> 00:45:06.363
Was forced as a boy to watch
his father being tortured.

00:45:06.364 --> 00:45:14.364
I was asked to come in and all of us
to see my father dead time when he was

00:45:14.420 --> 00:45:20.118
Tortured and then he was tortured

00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:26.299
by Indonesian we are looking
at the action and we want.

00:45:26.300 --> 00:45:32.748
By the Indonesians that look if you
kids for the coming time being

00:45:32.749 --> 00:45:35.358
you follow the example of
your father you our guest

00:45:35.359 --> 00:45:39.679
Indonesians you will have the
same salt life like your father.

00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:41.674
Water the dirty or further.

00:45:41.675 --> 00:45:49.675
They tortured him for several times what do
they do they punch him and beaten him and

00:45:52.144 --> 00:45:58.758
put their fingers to manipulate
Stomach and intestines and

00:45:58.759 --> 00:46:02.119
my father because usually
the Indonesian troops are

00:46:02.120 --> 00:46:06.603
trained with nickel silicon or karate.

00:46:06.604 --> 00:46:08.628
And they used.

00:46:08.629 --> 00:46:15.199
Usually to this kind of tortured and they

00:46:15.200 --> 00:46:23.130
put their fingers to the stomach
of my father and starting.

00:46:23.740 --> 00:46:26.280
Like this

00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:42.099
These are

00:46:42.100 --> 00:46:44.438
hope ground attack aircraft made by

00:46:44.439 --> 00:46:49.509
British Aerospace and one of the fastest
selling British weapons in the world in

00:46:49.510 --> 00:46:53.169
1978 at the height of
the genocide David Owen

00:46:53.170 --> 00:46:58.429
Foreign Secretary and the Labour government
agreed to sell the hawk to Indonesia.

00:46:59.220 --> 00:47:04.598
From then on the British establishment
played chord to the Suharto regime.

00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:06.998
While selling it more Hawk aircraft.

00:47:06.999 --> 00:47:12.338
More missiles helicopters forgets
armored vehicles mine disposal

00:47:12.339 --> 00:47:17.648
equipment military communications and a
fully equipped Institute of Technology for

00:47:17.649 --> 00:47:23.448
the Indonesian army Margaret Thatcher received
an award For the promotion of technology.

00:47:23.449 --> 00:47:27.139
She told her Indonesian audience
I am proud to be one of

00:47:27.140 --> 00:47:33.379
you in 1991 the government of John Major

00:47:33.380 --> 00:47:37.069
urged its European partners
to cut aid to regimes that

00:47:37.070 --> 00:47:40.818
violated human rights in
the same year major shook

00:47:40.819 --> 00:47:44.553
hands with Indonesia\'s
weapons chief BJ Habibie

00:47:44.554 --> 00:47:49.248
later the government announced a billion
pound deal for more Hawk aircraft.

00:47:49.249 --> 00:47:50.928
Despite the devastation they were

00:47:50.929 --> 00:47:58.929
causing point of selling Hawk aircraft
to Indonesia is to give jobs to

00:47:59.270 --> 00:48:01.529
people in this country

00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:08.449
And there is no doubt in my mind that there
is nothing that a Hawk aircraft can do to

00:48:08.450 --> 00:48:10.999
suppress the people in East Timor if he\'s

00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:14.118
not an aircraft that is suitable
for that purpose and we have

00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:16.668
guarantees from the Indonesians
but they would not be used for

00:48:16.669 --> 00:48:20.944
internal suppression Ellen clerk.

00:48:20.945 --> 00:48:24.439
You were Minister of Defense
when the sale of Hawk aircraft

00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.964
for being negotiated and
finalize with Indonesia and

00:48:27.965 --> 00:48:31.279
your colleagues have talked
about getting guarantees from

00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:35.178
the Indonesians that the
Hawks would not be used for

00:48:35.179 --> 00:48:39.258
expressive purposes against
civilians and in fact in

00:48:39.259 --> 00:48:43.668
East Timor What exactly these
guarantees I mean that\'s really what

00:48:43.669 --> 00:48:46.519
I\'m Carolina cast I never asked for

00:48:46.520 --> 00:48:49.788
guarantees of that gun that must have
been something that the Foreign Office

00:48:49.789 --> 00:48:57.789
did before the IDC or whatever it wasn\'t
that whatever committee considers.

00:48:57.814 --> 00:49:00.979
So going on to a horizontal
or not I mean would

00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:04.578
you would you say getting
guarantees from a government like

00:49:04.579 --> 00:49:07.444
the Indonesian government
all SRP is you\'d get

00:49:07.445 --> 00:49:11.718
a guaranteed worthless for many govern as far
as I\'m concerned and I wouldn\'t even bother

00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:14.988
anybody it\'s you may want it it may

00:49:14.989 --> 00:49:20.288
look good in the formula you know it\'s that\'s
a foreign office mat and offer them a demon

00:49:20.289 --> 00:49:22.980
we\'d never all summit for guarantees

00:49:24.910 --> 00:49:28.999
But it wasn\'t just a foreign
office matter it was the ministry

00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.589
of defense that also accepted

00:49:30.590 --> 00:49:33.978
the guarantees that it\'s

00:49:33.979 --> 00:49:37.683
a training so trying everything the
ability of the aircraft to carry weapons.

00:49:37.684 --> 00:49:41.418
Has been improved the weight of

00:49:41.419 --> 00:49:45.618
weapons that can being carried has been
increased and the as you see the wide range of

00:49:45.619 --> 00:49:53.619
weapons that it can carry is quite
impressive but the government have said that

00:49:55.189 --> 00:49:57.528
the version of the planes the
Indonesians are buying is

00:49:57.529 --> 00:50:01.819
just a trainer and won\'t be used
against the team Murray\'s Well

00:50:01.820 --> 00:50:04.699
it\'s it\'s a question we look at
very carefully but I promise

00:50:04.700 --> 00:50:09.529
you We put under the most searching.

00:50:09.530 --> 00:50:13.578
Analysis the use to which
equipments that we

00:50:13.579 --> 00:50:17.568
sell will be put and we are quite
confident that the Indonesians

00:50:17.569 --> 00:50:20.088
will use Hawks for

00:50:20.089 --> 00:50:24.723
jet training for advanced jet training which
is why they were acquired in first place

00:50:24.724 --> 00:50:28.549
I mean as far as the Hawks were concerned
there was a great deal of talk

00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:33.454
from all the ministries and British
Aerospace that they were merely trainers.

00:50:33.455 --> 00:50:37.728
I mean that that a lot has been
made of them they weren\'t telling

00:50:37.729 --> 00:50:43.053
the truth that\'s just a label you
put on it I\'m they are trainers.

00:50:43.054 --> 00:50:44.984
You said nearly trainers.

00:50:44.985 --> 00:50:49.338
That the hawks that
training aircraft That is

00:50:49.339 --> 00:50:54.018
actually an exceptionally effective
aircraft and can be used in

00:50:54.019 --> 00:50:58.938
a variety of different roles it can be
easily converted to as the Indonesians

00:50:58.939 --> 00:51:04.324
Mr. Habibie man you know he said
that yes it\'s a training aircraft.

00:51:04.325 --> 00:51:07.878
With these Chang and his cheek but we
can easily convert it ineffectual.

00:51:07.879 --> 00:51:14.824
It can it can be converted anyway that the
hawk is is Jill use or the capital D in fact.

00:51:14.825 --> 00:51:18.469
Part of the deal with Indonesia
is conversion training to

00:51:18.470 --> 00:51:25.009
a light attack aircraft and Indonesia\'s
weapons chief Made it clear the hawk he said.

00:51:25.010 --> 00:51:33.010
Will be used not only to train pilots but
for ground attack the first time I saw.

00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:36.484
To jet fighters.

00:51:36.485 --> 00:51:44.268
Our surprise I realize that they
were because we only saw uncle flew

00:51:44.269 --> 00:51:52.269
over us ten minutes after we heard
that strong Blast bomb and the

00:51:54.730 --> 00:52:02.524
machine gun. A government
minister barrenness choker

00:52:02.525 --> 00:52:05.689
told parliament that British
aid Helping the poor

00:52:05.690 --> 00:52:08.718
of Indonesia in fact half of all aid to

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:12.799
Indonesia is linked to trade and
much of that is tied to weapons

00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:17.268
this is a list of British companies selling
weapons or war-related equipment to

00:52:17.269 --> 00:52:22.519
the Indonesian dictatorship in April
1993 shortly before the sale of

00:52:22.520 --> 00:52:27.499
Hawk aircraft was announced the Foreign
Secretary Douglas heard flew to Jakarta and

00:52:27.500 --> 00:52:32.703
gave Suharto 65 million pounds
in so-called soft loans

00:52:32.704 --> 00:52:35.929
heard assured the regime
that Western values on

00:52:35.930 --> 00:52:40.158
human rights could not be exported
to Indonesia they were cultural and

00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:42.888
economic differences he
said and referred to

00:52:42.889 --> 00:52:48.754
Indonesia\'s recognition of basic
freedom On the question of

00:52:48.755 --> 00:52:53.373
human rights for instance are that we
have a different views but I think

00:52:53.374 --> 00:52:58.624
among the countries United
Kingdom is one of the most.

00:52:58.625 --> 00:53:06.625
Ready to understand our position and to
express support when it is possible.

00:53:08.030 --> 00:53:10.894
Did it ever bother you personally.

00:53:10.895 --> 00:53:18.154
This British equipment was causing
such mayhem And humans suffering.

00:53:18.155 --> 00:53:21.889
No knowledge about it never entered

00:53:21.890 --> 00:53:26.913
my head I mean you tell me that this was
happening I didn\'t hear about it on their value.

00:53:26.914 --> 00:53:30.379
Well even if I hadn\'t told you
it was happening the fact that

00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:33.919
we supply highly effective
equipment to a regime like that

00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:36.708
then is not a consideration as far as

00:53:36.709 --> 00:53:41.298
your concern is not a personal consider
a national I asked the question

00:53:41.299 --> 00:53:47.523
because you I\'ve read that you
were a vegetarian and you quite

00:53:47.524 --> 00:53:51.259
seriously and concerned
about the way animals are

00:53:51.260 --> 00:53:54.949
killed yeah doesn\'t that
concern extend to the way.

00:53:54.950 --> 00:54:01.744
Humans albeit farm as a killed The
resistor leader Connie Santana.

00:54:01.745 --> 00:54:05.749
Has reported to me follow those
several math Bao There is

00:54:05.750 --> 00:54:07.669
a measure of fancy boy known involving

00:54:07.670 --> 00:54:10.413
hundreds and hundreds of inhibition troops.
Throughout the country.

00:54:10.414 --> 00:54:12.859
We\'d helicopter we\'d aircraft including

00:54:12.860 --> 00:54:16.774
the hope in a major attempt
to completely eradicate

00:54:16.775 --> 00:54:23.778
degree in East Timor I hope
the fabric we English.

00:54:23.779 --> 00:54:31.779
Thing or to do Santo
bombas bombas and seen as

00:54:33.740 --> 00:54:36.768
Contra thing it\'s a scenario

00:54:36.769 --> 00:54:43.578
policies interfaces Put it to so alan
thomas head of defense sales that

00:54:43.579 --> 00:54:47.389
the hawks were not merely for training
and had been used against the people of

00:54:47.390 --> 00:54:51.649
East Timor we keep a
very close watch on what

00:54:51.650 --> 00:54:56.628
our friends and allies doing at all times
there\'s no evidence of what do you

00:54:56.629 --> 00:55:03.078
suggest I can distinguish from the nose.

00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:11.079
Of the hogs and sky hawks 1516
and the Broncos iso Two Hawks

00:55:12.394 --> 00:55:17.568
underground along the airport of bow and

00:55:17.569 --> 00:55:23.134
I ask people what about this hogs
and they said Why you\'re surprised.

00:55:23.135 --> 00:55:27.209
These hawks are bombing mountains
of McDivvit and every day

00:55:28.720 --> 00:55:32.749
it should be remembered that
oppression was never part of

00:55:32.750 --> 00:55:36.004
the vision of those who fought
and died to free Indonesia.

00:55:36.005 --> 00:55:38.103
From European imperialism.

00:55:38.104 --> 00:55:40.789
Their struggle for
independence from the Dutch.

00:55:40.790 --> 00:55:44.178
Produced great popular
movements for democracy and

00:55:44.179 --> 00:55:48.588
social justice for 14 years
Indonesia had one of

00:55:48.589 --> 00:55:53.089
the freest parliamentary
democracies in the world today

00:55:53.090 --> 00:56:00.210
many Indonesians understand this the slaughter
in East Timor is unworthy of such a nation

00:56:09.300 --> 00:56:12.368
One of the biggest prizes for the West is

00:56:12.369 --> 00:56:14.678
the Timor Gap oil treaty between

00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:18.068
Indonesia and Australia which
allows foreign companies to

00:56:18.069 --> 00:56:21.758
exploit the huge oil and gas
reserves in the seabed off

00:56:21.759 --> 00:56:26.228
East Timor Portugal has taken
Australia to the World Court.

00:56:26.229 --> 00:56:28.343
Over the legality of the treaty.

00:56:28.344 --> 00:56:31.689
According to Professor Roger
clock or world authority on

00:56:31.690 --> 00:56:35.364
international law the Treaty
makes the Australian government.

00:56:35.365 --> 00:56:38.299
A receiver a stolen property.

00:56:40.140 --> 00:56:44.228
This is a strange and foreign
affairs minister Gareth Evans

00:56:44.229 --> 00:56:47.808
and Indonesian foreign minister
Aliada tasks there are

00:56:47.809 --> 00:56:51.258
flying over the oil fields of
team or toasting each other

00:56:51.259 --> 00:56:55.203
as they celebrate the treaty
and the division of spoils.

00:56:55.204 --> 00:56:57.739
I think if you think back
over the whole period

00:56:57.740 --> 00:57:01.428
the other agreements the relationship
we\'ve had has been very significant.

00:57:01.429 --> 00:57:05.628
Very important but this
is really unique and

00:57:05.629 --> 00:57:10.609
uniquely important and for that reason
it\'s really quite an historic occasion the

00:57:10.610 --> 00:57:14.628
winner witnessing today
they could at least be

00:57:14.629 --> 00:57:18.828
more discreet about it it was so
obvious that they know they were

00:57:18.829 --> 00:57:22.293
ripping off the wealth of East
Timor first Indonesia invade

00:57:22.294 --> 00:57:27.229
each demo and Australia recognize
that invasion that annexation.

00:57:27.230 --> 00:57:32.118
Saying that It is for the good of the
people of East Timor Australia kept telling

00:57:32.119 --> 00:57:37.684
us in Indonesia that East Timor
is too poor anyway to be viable.

00:57:37.685 --> 00:57:41.028
As independent state but then they go

00:57:41.029 --> 00:57:44.823
on sign a treaty to exploit
the immense oil reserves

00:57:44.824 --> 00:57:52.824
of the Timor Sea area it is again a
display of audacity of hypocrisy.

00:57:56.200 --> 00:58:02.868
It\'s the Black Death signings people\'s
black memories have had haven\'t had

00:58:02.869 --> 00:58:06.018
a say in it and it belongs to us it

00:58:06.019 --> 00:58:10.650
belongs to the people of esteem
or not to Australia or Indonesia

00:58:19.710 --> 00:58:24.799
On October the 28th 1991 and un-arm team

00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:30.968
every student Sabastiano Gomez was shot
dead at this church by Indonesian agents

00:58:30.969 --> 00:58:38.969
here he has more and by his
friends and his mother died

00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:50.304
two weeks later on November the
12th but people have delay

00:58:50.305 --> 00:58:54.699
the Capital held an extraordinarily
brave demonstration as a tribute to

00:58:54.700 --> 00:58:59.208
the dead boy It was also
a cry for freedom that

00:58:59.209 --> 00:59:03.964
the Indonesians did not want the outside
world to hear what was unusual.

00:59:03.965 --> 00:59:06.334
Both of the terrible events that followed.

00:59:06.335 --> 00:59:09.929
Were witnessed by
foreigners and we\'ll film.

00:59:10.600 --> 00:59:18.600
Certain November demonstrations was
organized by me and our intention to

00:59:18.619 --> 00:59:26.269
do this was on it to tell to the world
that is Taylor continues suffering.

00:59:26.270 --> 00:59:33.154
Under Indonesia oppression and the case for
demonstrations for us is they wonder one

00:59:33.155 --> 00:59:41.155
way The demonstrators per item
cemetery from Santa Cruz.

00:59:42.619 --> 00:59:46.218
Although the taper shouted
out for phrase team or

00:59:46.219 --> 00:59:51.180
an approach that isn\'t at all
an amazing opening fire.

01:00:02.640 --> 01:00:07.589
Could go to jail

01:00:42.640 --> 01:00:50.640
It can\'t forget it limited to a
shot a gear and head was suffrage.

01:00:50.674 --> 01:00:56.389
And John and I always remember

01:00:56.390 --> 01:01:04.390
her phase or at least in my mind I couldn\'t
forget it and employees Died anywhere.

01:01:30.370 --> 01:01:36.079
The statement by Amnesty International
described the situation there as one

01:01:36.080 --> 01:01:41.179
of arbitrary arrest torture
disappearance executions and Massacre.

01:01:41.180 --> 01:01:46.369
Are they lying Yes I
think Amnesty is lying.

01:01:46.370 --> 01:01:49.309
They are not they have no.

01:01:49.310 --> 01:01:53.239
Got abraded evidence maybe
they are they have letters

01:01:53.240 --> 01:01:57.648
written by those who are anti
integration I must be the damn.

01:01:57.649 --> 01:02:02.569
Few of these two modular still don\'t
want to have the integration.

01:02:02.570 --> 01:02:06.019
General subtree Snow who\'s now
of course the Vice President

01:02:06.020 --> 01:02:09.049
said that anyone who doesn\'t toe
the line in Indonesia will be

01:02:09.050 --> 01:02:16.998
shot and we will shoot them but
despite of that state then how do you

01:02:16.999 --> 01:02:21.049
see in people being shot
because we\'re seeing

01:02:21.050 --> 01:02:25.668
clearly on television people being
shot it was filmed in the So.

01:02:25.669 --> 01:02:29.808
Unless the incident of tough
November and we have done a lot

01:02:29.809 --> 01:02:34.249
to rectifier to address
this problem and of course.

01:02:34.250 --> 01:02:38.284
Again less than media some
are diverse and media.

01:02:38.285 --> 01:02:42.829
Did not have any intention to
disclose what had been done by

01:02:42.830 --> 01:02:48.094
the in an isn\'t Gutman
to adress this abuses.

01:02:48.095 --> 01:02:51.618
What was done was to set
up an inquiry described by

01:02:51.619 --> 01:02:55.384
Amnesty International as
totally lacking credibility.

01:02:55.385 --> 01:02:59.118
Ten low-ranking Indonesian officers
were given life sentences.

01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:02.089
Mostly of a few months in contrast

01:03:02.090 --> 01:03:07.459
18 Murray\'s demonstrators were given
sentences ranging from five years To

01:03:07.460 --> 01:03:15.460
life the Indonesians highly sensitive and
feel that dam that journalists may well.

01:03:16.925 --> 01:03:19.879
Cause further travel is happened
of course after the massacre

01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:23.749
1991 When you say the
journalist cause trouble after

01:03:23.750 --> 01:03:27.709
the massacre there surely the trouble was
caused by the Indonesians who killed

01:03:27.710 --> 01:03:32.899
all those people well and
that for the rare occasion

01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:35.479
they were actually filmed
killing them yeah I didn\'t know

01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:38.853
the trace of this but well
the truth is there in living

01:03:38.854 --> 01:03:41.764
color Indonesian soldiers murdering

01:03:41.765 --> 01:03:46.579
Yeah I had visit I didn\'t know the truth of
the Indonesian allegation I see that some of

01:03:46.580 --> 01:03:52.578
those journalists were there on visas
And had played a part in the stirring

01:03:52.579 --> 01:03:55.744
up trouble but isn\'t it that
doesn\'t justify what happened well

01:03:55.745 --> 01:03:59.419
that\'s simply I\'m really
putting that forward.

01:03:59.420 --> 01:04:03.443
Journalists were stirring up trouble
that led to the deli massacre.

01:04:03.444 --> 01:04:08.418
Or bring it forward and Asians
are yes although there was

01:04:08.419 --> 01:04:13.219
some graphics picture of the
massacre coming through and

01:04:13.220 --> 01:04:15.664
still the Australian
government waited to see

01:04:15.665 --> 01:04:18.634
whether it really happened
where that the death toll.

01:04:18.635 --> 01:04:22.279
Was correct. After the cemetery massacre.

01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:25.353
The British government
increased aid to Indonesia.

01:04:25.354 --> 01:04:28.278
To 81 million pounds a rise of

01:04:28.279 --> 01:04:34.969
250% at the same time Eleven more
contracts under the Timor Gap Treaty.

01:04:34.970 --> 01:04:37.338
Were awarded to Australian companies

01:04:37.339 --> 01:04:42.304
Gareth Evans described the
massacre as an aberration.

01:04:42.305 --> 01:04:49.758
I think regarded by an aberration was that
it had erupted in Delhi which is one of

01:04:49.759 --> 01:04:53.089
27 Indonesian provinces with elements of

01:04:53.090 --> 01:04:57.618
the armed forces in it and it
was not directed from Jakarta.

01:04:57.619 --> 01:05:02.433
I don\'t think the killing
of perhaps as many as

01:05:02.434 --> 01:05:04.819
a 180 people Is

01:05:04.820 --> 01:05:09.199
an aberration as wouldn\'t think that was
an extraordinary statement by goth Evans.

01:05:09.200 --> 01:05:11.148
I believe it was a deliberate step by

01:05:11.149 --> 01:05:15.048
the Indonesian military to show
the young table raise that

01:05:15.049 --> 01:05:18.183
their moves towards the agitating

01:05:18.184 --> 01:05:22.834
for self-determination and independence
just simply went acceptable.

01:05:22.835 --> 01:05:26.238
I think they have planted the massacre and

01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:31.189
before raising armies threat into
people all been laid that time in

01:05:31.190 --> 01:05:34.218
October September October they came to

01:05:34.219 --> 01:05:39.648
people people houses and said that well
if you do any demonstrations we will kill

01:05:39.649 --> 01:05:40.800
you

01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:50.288
We have interviewed

01:05:50.289 --> 01:05:55.389
a number of people who have given evidence
that the survivors of those killings in

01:05:55.390 --> 01:06:02.694
1991 many of them were themselves
killed that is completely untrue.

01:06:02.695 --> 01:06:06.534
Why should these people lie to us we have

01:06:06.535 --> 01:06:10.704
names and places and these
are people with without.

01:06:10.705 --> 01:06:14.108
Who actually speak to us in fear
of their personal safety why

01:06:14.109 --> 01:06:17.529
should they lie to us again as
a political observer I think

01:06:17.530 --> 01:06:20.798
you should understand that
in politics you can\'t

01:06:20.799 --> 01:06:24.834
pursue your your objective
by throwing dirt.

01:06:24.835 --> 01:06:30.708
This is politics we should
not be too naive We

01:06:30.709 --> 01:06:32.058
can now reveal that

01:06:32.059 --> 01:06:36.559
a second unreported massacre took
place that day and the following day.

01:06:36.560 --> 01:06:40.144
Bringing the total number of
people murdered and missing.

01:06:40.145 --> 01:06:44.958
To more than 400 the poisons

01:06:44.959 --> 01:06:49.593
in part through a mosquito policy
Morris after they stop shooting.

01:06:49.594 --> 01:06:52.909
Those who had survived the ones who could

01:06:52.910 --> 01:06:56.044
have been saved because they\'re
only wounded in the legs and arms

01:06:56.045 --> 01:06:59.928
severely Maurice they were
stuck with Bain it\'s loaded by

01:06:59.929 --> 01:07:04.354
an enter sonar Almighty the one still inside
the cemetery who was still breathing.

01:07:04.355 --> 01:07:06.918
But lying on the ground is
it kinda their heads were

01:07:06.919 --> 01:07:09.858
crushed with rocks until late
died more welcoming and fight

01:07:09.859 --> 01:07:13.159
that parathmatic era You actually

01:07:13.160 --> 01:07:18.379
saw the Indonesian soldiers
benefiting the survivors to do.

01:07:18.380 --> 01:07:24.409
Yeah they picked up all the bodies.

01:07:24.410 --> 01:07:29.988
Including me and took us away in
a truck it was a Mercedes and

01:07:29.989 --> 01:07:35.928
last is that bodies were loaded
onto a Hanan Mercedes truck.

01:07:35.929 --> 01:07:39.273
According to my colleague who
himself and loaded to bodies.

01:07:39.274 --> 01:07:43.218
Some of them are still alive and
that\'s all it died out when they see

01:07:43.219 --> 01:07:47.419
Maurice Yamashita Karnak
Mishra and then they separated

01:07:47.420 --> 01:07:52.173
us the wounded from the one-to-one not
wounded and we were taken to the hospital.

01:07:52.174 --> 01:08:00.174
On the way we were continually beaten And
once at the hospital they were not related to

01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:07.929
human beings mechanism to read they were just
pushed down from the truck and spread on

01:08:07.930 --> 01:08:15.290
the ground and what do you want to watch some
of the victims were pretending to be dead.

01:08:16.080 --> 01:08:19.899
For the Indonesians spotted
them and drove the truck over

01:08:19.900 --> 01:08:26.258
their bodies and somebody who even
so not all of them died immediately.

01:08:26.259 --> 01:08:34.259
Some still survived and I believe that
we\'re on Klemola Granny and then they

01:08:36.460 --> 01:08:39.799
took us to the mortuary There are a lot of

01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:44.219
my friends who were still
alive they weren\'t dead

01:08:45.370 --> 01:08:48.468
and I saw with my own eyes that amongst

01:08:48.469 --> 01:08:51.379
the bodies that were piled
high like this there were

01:08:51.380 --> 01:08:59.309
children women and old people but the
majority were young all students.

01:08:59.320 --> 01:09:02.584
Suddenly I heard steps
approaching the door.

01:09:02.585 --> 01:09:04.728
So I laid down again pretending to be

01:09:04.729 --> 01:09:10.728
dead and that was Iranians and how
does a model and then there was

01:09:10.729 --> 01:09:12.708
an attempt to inject them as features with

01:09:12.709 --> 01:09:16.968
sulfuric acid at s1 as you remember
in my day because it\'s really

01:09:16.969 --> 01:09:21.183
strong and can kill Asana and donation But

01:09:21.184 --> 01:09:26.163
the Indonesian troops to do this again
because the people screened say loudly.

01:09:26.164 --> 01:09:29.689
It\'s you know food they Mussolini but
it wasn\'t attempt to kill them in

01:09:29.690 --> 01:09:33.544
case these medicines were
taken from Dan cares.

01:09:33.545 --> 01:09:35.629
The Health Department.

01:09:35.630 --> 01:09:42.078
Then case two soldiers

01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:47.658
came in one of them picked up a rock and
the other had a jar with some pills.

01:09:47.659 --> 01:09:51.858
They ordered those who are
alive to stand up and

01:09:51.859 --> 01:09:56.434
the soldier but the rock smashed one
of them on the head and his chest.

01:09:56.435 --> 01:09:59.879
Not long afterwards he died

01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:11.840
Many years passed by and
we move to surrender.

01:10:13.540 --> 01:10:21.540
No. Never never never 200 thousand have yet

01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:26.454
what I\'m allowed to

01:10:26.455 --> 01:10:31.478
SMR I\'m

01:10:31.479 --> 01:10:37.970
still I\'m still.

01:10:40.470 --> 01:10:48.378
Ten mm In my affinity.

01:10:48.379 --> 01:10:54.649
In 200 thousand people almost all
of them non-combatants died.

01:10:54.650 --> 01:10:58.608
Simply because a man
former Secretary of State

01:10:58.609 --> 01:11:06.609
kissinger his ego god on the way and
general suharto ego got underway.

01:11:07.535 --> 01:11:13.039
Why not simply leave the East Timor worries
alone to do whatever they wanted to do.

01:11:13.040 --> 01:11:21.040
Why not let them alone I will
say that each individual and

01:11:22.969 --> 01:11:26.989
make a difference subjects
that I can let the detonation

01:11:26.990 --> 01:11:31.354
later And call that administers
top to define editors

01:11:31.355 --> 01:11:34.549
that journalist embarrassed
that for not doing anything on

01:11:34.550 --> 01:11:41.718
East Timor we still

01:11:41.719 --> 01:11:45.558
believe that we can win and I look in count

01:11:45.559 --> 01:11:49.999
on all those people around the
world who care to listen.

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:58.000
That nothing is impossible If we persist on
that peace and freedom is worth fighting

01:12:00.140 --> 01:12:07.939
for the evidence these

01:12:07.940 --> 01:12:11.223
data you cannot turn a blind eye anymore.

01:12:11.224 --> 01:12:14.940
If you do that means you\'re not human

01:12:25.810 --> 01:12:30.274
Amnesty International has said
of the Indonesian regime.

01:12:30.275 --> 01:12:33.378
If those who violate human
rights can do so with

01:12:33.379 --> 01:12:37.833
impunity They come to believe they
are beyond the reach of the law

01:12:37.834 --> 01:12:43.579
Western politicians and diplomats who
speak of pragmatism and realism in

01:12:43.580 --> 01:12:49.383
relation to the military occupation of East
Timor not only encourage a lawless pulley.

01:12:49.384 --> 01:12:51.348
But condemn a whole nation to

01:12:51.349 --> 01:12:56.329
a slow cultural death they should
not have their way and there are

01:12:56.330 --> 01:12:59.479
hopeful signs in 1993

01:12:59.480 --> 01:13:02.778
the United Nations Human
Rights Commission voted on

01:13:02.779 --> 01:13:06.993
a landmark resolution
condemning the Suharto regime.

01:13:06.994 --> 01:13:11.119
This was due to the extraordinary
efforts of those team are 0s and their

01:13:11.120 --> 01:13:15.438
allies who refused to allow
the unthinkable to be

01:13:15.439 --> 01:13:20.119
normalized And who\'s tenacity is
reflected in the eyes of people

01:13:20.120 --> 01:13:26.178
here eyes that speak a resistance
and defiance and courage.

01:13:26.179 --> 01:13:28.759
There is also a wider question.

01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:32.764
Our international relations at
the close of the 20th century.

01:13:32.765 --> 01:13:36.738
To be dominated by euphemisms
and lies that override

01:13:36.739 --> 01:13:41.478
justice and make small nations
expendable the fate of the people

01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:46.669
of East Timor is pivotal to this
for if we allow governments

01:13:46.670 --> 01:13:52.338
to arm their oppressors and steal their
resources and to do so and our name.

01:13:52.339 --> 01:13:58.230
How can we then claim the universal
rights that are denied them