Philip Zimbardo and Daniel Ellsberg discuss why some people are willing…
ithaka
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange—one of the world's most famous political prisoners—has become the scapegoat for an international struggle pitting freedom of the press against government secrecy, corruption and unpunished war crimes.
With Julian facing a 175-year sentence if extradited to the US, his family members are confronting the prospect of losing Julian forever to the abyss of the US justice system. This David-and-Goliath struggle is personal—and, with Julian's health declining in a British maximum-security prison and American government prosecutors attempting to extradite him to face trial in the US, the clock is ticking.
It's up to Julian's father, John Shipton, and fiancé Stella Moris to join forces to advocate for Julian on this international odyssey. As they rally a world-wide network of supporters and politicians, they cautiously step into the media's glare—and are forced to confront the events that made Julian a global flashpoint.
Filmed over two years across the UK, Europe and the US, ithaka provides insight into the personal toll inflicted by the arduous, often lonely task of fighting for a cause bigger than oneself.
"Ithaka persuasively argues that Julian Assange's psychological torture is designed to terrify and silence others who might dare to reveal abuses by global powers, but instead of portraits showing frightened people keeping their distance, we find close-up views of family and others refusing to back away in fear as they support Assange and embrace him and his cause. This is an intimate portrait of a difficult fight for the freedom to tell the truth. If there was a calculation that Assange will be forgotten, Ithaka rebels against any such complacency as it stirs renewed calls to end Julian Assange's torture and imprisonment. This film will be indispensable in any class exploring problems of 21st century democracies and attacks on the freedom of expression and the press." David H. Price, Professor of Anthropology, Saint Martin's University, Author, The American Surveillance State
"For over a decade, state-sponsored media campaigns have forced the abstraction and criminalization of Julian Assange. In a refreshing rebuke of these campaigns, ithaka chronicles the stories of Assange's family members and supporters as it weaves an impassioned narrative fabric that illuminates how the obstruction of truth, civil liberties, and democracy is more than an attack on principles; it is a torturous assault on individual people and their families. While a harrowing reminder of the relentless erasure of democracy by institutions of authoritarian power, the creative genius behind ithaka rests in its ability to humanize Julian Assange without direct access to him, thus revealing the power of unwavering hope in a family's quest for truth and justice." Joshua Guitar, Assistant Professor of Communication, Media and Journalism, Kean University, Author, Dissent, Discourse, and Democracy: Whistleblowers as Sites of Political Contestation
"Ithaka is a powerful reminder of how endangered freedom of speech is in today's world. Instead of being celebrated, whistleblowers who reveal serious government crime and corruption are persecuted. Watch this film to learn about how families and movements are fighting back." Alex Gladstein, Chief Strategy Officer, Human Rights Foundation
"Timely, essential, and deeply human...This is really powerful stuff." Andrew Peirce, The Curb
"Ithaka [is] a powerhouse new feature documentary...This intimate story of a family's crisis traces moments from the trial and its aftermath, underscoring how Julian's story is emblematic of a decade of uncertainty and volatility." FilmInk
"Intriguing...Shipton is a fascinating character - abrupt, ill at ease with the voracious press attention, but also possessed of a sharp, unusual intelligence...It's a mind, you suspect, that is not dissimilar to that of his son." Wendy Ide, The Guardian
"Emotional...Affecting...[A] heart-rending personal story of his family's battle to free him." Peter Bradshaw, The Guardian
"Superb film...Assange remains in prison, the US appealing the verdict, and the central issue remains live: both a human being and press freedoms are under assault." Karl Quinn, The Age
"Ithaka is a deft look at Julian Assange, his family and supporters...It is fascinating to meet Shipton, a man who so resembles his son they could almost be siblings. Not only are they alike physically, they have the same gift for language with a similar tendency to speak, from time to time, in riddles like an ancient seer...Besides questions of human rights, press freedom and freedom of speech that ithaka wants us to consider, there is a fascinating portrait of Julian's father here." Jane Freebury, The Canberra Times
"In Homer's myth, Odysseus regains his homeland, the Greek island of Ithaka, but there is no end in sight for Julian Assange's odyssey...4 stars." Sandra Hall, Sydney Morning Herald
"A masterful piece of filmmaking that will impress Assange's supporters as well as those who don't like him...A brilliant reconciliation between politics and art, information and aesthetic beauty." Livan Garcia-Duquesne, DMovies
"The persecution of Assange establishes a precedent that will not only allow the powerful to keep their crimes secret but will even make the revelation of such claims punishable by law. Let us not fool ourselves: once telling the truth has become a crime we will all be living in a tyranny." Nils Melzer, UN Special Rapporteur on Torture
Citation
Main credits
Lawrence, Ben (film director)
Lawrence, Ben (screenwriter)
Shipton, Gabriel (film producer)
Devant, Adrian (film producer)
Shipton, John (on-screen participant)
Other credits
Director of photography, Niels Ladefoged; editor, Karen Johnson; original music, Brian Eno.
Distributor subjects
No distributor subjects provided.Keywords
00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:37.360
(SIREN WAILS DISTANTLY)
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.440
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:59.520
Breaking news out of the city -
police have confirmed reports
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:01.320
that WikiLeaks founder
Julian Assange
00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:02.360
has been arrested.
00:01:02.360 --> 00:01:05.720
One of the most notorious and
controversial figures in the world
00:01:05.720 --> 00:01:07.080
is finally in custody.
00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:11.400
I can't even remember how
I feel about Julian Assange.
00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:16.800
WikiLeaks! I love WikiLeaks.
00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:19.360
WOMAN: 10 years ago,
Assange shot to fame
00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:22.080
when WikiLeaks began publishing
secret documents
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provided by former US intelligence
analyst Chelsea Manning.
00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:29.320
MAN: WikiLeaks first caught
the attention of most Americans
00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:31.080
when it released this video.
00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:34.440
- At least a dozen people were
killed in the attack...(GUNFIRE)
00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:36.360
...some of them
innocent civilians.
00:01:39.160 --> 00:01:42.080
...that the Metropolitan Police
have arrested Julian Assange.
00:01:42.080 --> 00:01:44.920
MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:46.400
Arrested for breach of bail
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.920
after nearly seven years
in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:50.640
He has also been arrested
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.320
in relation to
an extradition request
00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:54.480
from the United States
authorities.
00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:56.960
The Obama administration couldn't
figure out how to charge him
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without him being able to get
journalistic protection.
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MAN: Right.
00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:01.600
I think it's pretty amazing,
00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:04.000
and the Trump administration
should be, like, "Look at us.
00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:05.320
"We figured it out."
00:02:05.320 --> 00:02:08.200
REPORTER: Now, after eight
years of cat-and-mouse,
00:02:08.200 --> 00:02:10.320
Julian Assange
is on the precipice
00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:13.160
of extradition
to the United States.
00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:18.920
You've said that
you're proud of your son.
00:02:18.920 --> 00:02:20.720
You've now, if you like,
broken cover,
00:02:20.720 --> 00:02:22.480
because we didn't really
know about you
00:02:22.480 --> 00:02:24.080
until this morning, actually.
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.600
Why have you decided that now
is the time to speak up for him
00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:31.680
and to call for
his repatriation to Australia?
00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.480
Well, he...Julian can
no longer speak for himself,
00:02:35.480 --> 00:02:41.600
and so...so we...his family
and friends must speak for him.
00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:39.640
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about the
day Julian asked you to help?
00:03:39.640 --> 00:03:41.360
Can you talk me through that?
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I don't really remember.
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What I remember is
that he got arrested,
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and so I came here and...
00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:53.400
...went and saw him in the...
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...went and saw Julian
in the jail.
00:03:56.680 --> 00:03:59.560
Anyway, he was
in a very bad way.
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.560
OK. Yeah. Just...just tell me,
how was Julian Assange?
00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:06.400
Oh, well, he's lost
about 10 kilos' weight,
00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:12.280
and he's psychologically under
a lot of stress and pressure.
00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.000
The visiting hours
are very, very precious.
00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.280
(SNIFFS)
Sorry. I'm a bit upset.
00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:23.000
Yes. This is my first visit.
Yes.
00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:26.360
Yes. Yes. That...
00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:27.880
MAN: How was that...?
00:04:27.880 --> 00:04:30.320
It's pretty moving,
as you would expect.
00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:32.720
(CAMERA CLICKS)
- REPORTER: OK. Thanks.
00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:36.360
Pretty tough.
For him, you know?
00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:37.840
(CAMERA CLICKS)
00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:40.600
- I guess that'll do.
- REPORTER: Thank you.
00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.000
- Thank you.
- JOURNALISTS: Thank you.
00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.240
So I said,
"I'll...I'll be back."
00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:48.920
"I won't stop coming
until you can come home."
00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:52.960
And I...I don't
much like the media, but...
00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:56.000
...it seems as though
there was an avenue
00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.080
where I could contribute.
00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:01.600
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about
your contact with Julian
00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.200
through his childhood?
00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:04.960
Well, I don't think it's a...
00:05:04.960 --> 00:05:07.360
...you know, I don't think
it'll help, will it?
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.240
INTERVIEWER: Well,
just understanding
00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:11.480
that you didn't connect
for a long time.
00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:13.240
Yeah. So why do we...
00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.840
I mean, frankly, why do we
have to go over that again?
00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:17.680
It's a serious question.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.160
Why do I have to
go over the fact
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:24.720
that I may not feel comfortable
with your question?
00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:25.840
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
00:05:25.840 --> 00:05:29.320
- Well, it's part of the story.
- It ISN'T part of the story.
00:05:29.320 --> 00:05:32.560
The story is that...you know,
00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.160
I am attempting,
in my own humble...
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I don't like that word.
00:05:38.320 --> 00:05:42.480
...modest way
to get Julian out of the shit.
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:44.600
What does it involve?
00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.600
Traipsing around Europe,
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building up
coalitions of friendship.
00:06:03.400 --> 00:06:05.240
And I have the feeling that
00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.560
the desire for
a narrative about Julian
00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.120
is stronger than the desire
00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:17.080
to understand the person
that you are speaking to,
00:06:17.080 --> 00:06:19.360
and what
you're indirectly doing
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.480
is making sense of life
00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.360
by imposing on life,
as it flows past, a narrative,
00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.960
because that's what
you want to see -
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a beginning, a middle
and an end and a conclusion -
00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.920
which is a convenient...
or what I would call
00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.520
Hollywood way of
looking at life.
00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:41.960
But, you know, life's not
really like that at all.
00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:44.880
So, what you can do
with these things...
00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:50.520
is that you can give it
a destiny.
00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:54.440
I would prefer
the difficulty of destiny
00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:58.480
over the ease of narrative.
00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:07.120
It's good to see you. Yeah.
00:07:22.960 --> 00:07:26.360
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.600
JOHN SHIPTON:
Julian is suffering from
00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:32.720
years of psychological torture,
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:37.120
increasing to the extent
of damaging him.
00:07:41.640 --> 00:07:44.000
Thank you very much,
ladies and gentlemen.
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:48.760
Julian, of course, is not well.
Um...
00:07:48.760 --> 00:07:51.800
(WOMAN SPEAKS GERMAN)
00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.160
NILS MELZER: So I'm an
independent human rights expert
00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.560
who's appointed directly
by the United Nations.
00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.880
Well, Julian Assange's case,
00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:23.800
it does involve my mandate
on several levels,
00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:25.720
although I...
00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.120
I at first didn't think so,
and...
00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:32.520
...that's the deceptive nature
of psychological torture.
00:08:32.520 --> 00:08:35.600
That's the purpose
of psychological torture.
00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.440
It wants to torture people
without the environment realising
00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:40.240
someone is being tortured.
00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.240
Doesn't want to leave traces.
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.000
Now, you DO leave traces,
but it's in the mind.
00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.640
Torture is used
to break people,
00:08:47.640 --> 00:08:51.520
very often to make them say
what you want them to say
00:08:51.520 --> 00:08:54.160
or not to say anything.
00:08:55.640 --> 00:08:57.640
But in Julian's case,
00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:00.040
it's about
intimidating everybody else.
00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:08.160
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:09.680
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
00:09:16.280 --> 00:09:18.560
JOHN SHIPTON:
I started this thing...
00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:21.920
Oh, what was it? '73, I think.
00:09:24.520 --> 00:09:25.560
Oh, oh, thank you.
00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:27.440
- And if I had...
- And, really, tell him...
00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.560
...you know, had that
in my nature,
00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:31.680
I would have
been there already.
00:09:31.680 --> 00:09:35.920
But I wasn't. You know,
I liked building things.
00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:39.560
Particularly liked
building homes.
00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.080
'Cause a...a home, you know,
00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:46.000
is a stage
for the theatre of life.
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.920
And it gathers the inhabitants
under its roof
00:09:50.920 --> 00:09:54.880
like a hen gathers its chicks.
00:09:54.880 --> 00:09:56.480
So I liked that.
00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.160
That was what I liked doing,
making those things.
00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:04.080
HOST: So, please have a seat.
JOHN SHIPTON: Ah.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:05.480
Thank you. Alright.
00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:07.480
Just have to put this
a little bit closer.
00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:08.760
- Oh.
- That's OK for you?
00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:10.080
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:21.320
Well, I last saw Julian
at three years of age,
00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:24.520
and then we re-met
when he was in his 20s,
00:10:24.520 --> 00:10:30.280
so, as a child, I can
only go by what his mum says.
00:10:30.280 --> 00:10:35.640
I think his nickname
was 'Wizard'
00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:38.200
and...and shortened to 'Wizzy',
00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:43.280
because he was precocious
and inventive and... Yeah.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.600
- Is that correct?
- Yeah. (LAUGHS) Yes. Yeah.
00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:55.120
He...called in one day,
00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:59.840
and we made tea
and avocado toast,
00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:05.920
and we talked about secrecy,
its benefits and its failures.
00:11:05.920 --> 00:11:09.400
And he said that the...
00:11:09.400 --> 00:11:13.360
...quality of a society
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.960
is founded upon the information
that it can get access to
00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:23.520
in order to build something
that is more sturdy
00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:26.920
and has deeper knowledge
of itself
00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:33.320
and consequently can move
to a higher plane of existence.
00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:38.080
They are...
that is his but paraphrased,
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:42.320
because the conversations
extended over days, you know?
00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:54.120
HOST: Ready to go live
on the fly
00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.640
here on 99.5 FM
in New York City.
00:11:57.640 --> 00:12:01.600
Today, I'm talking with
Dr Niraj Lal,
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.880
about Julian Assange.
00:12:03.880 --> 00:12:10.600
So, when did you first meet
Julian Assange, Dr Niraj?
00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.080
First met Julian in 2002,
00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.800
in my first physics lecture
at the University of Melbourne.
00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:20.720
And the question of whether
Australia would go to war in Iraq
00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:22.680
was a topic of discussion.
00:12:23.760 --> 00:12:27.160
Julian was very much
a passionate advocate
00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:29.040
for fairness, for justice.
00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:31.560
And millions of citizens
were marching,
00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:35.320
to see if we could
stop this war taking place,
00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.280
that I think people of the time
00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:41.560
knew that it wasn't actually about the
safety of the Iraqi citizens themselves
00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:43.440
or the safety of other nations
around the world.
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.560
And we saw this, and we
marched and we protested.
00:12:51.760 --> 00:12:53.240
And nothing happened.
00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:56.360
It didn't lead to anything.
We still went to war.
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:05.440
And Julian asked the question,
"Well..."
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.720
"if marching civilians
can't do it,
00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.560
"if letters to our politicians
don't do it, if..."
00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.200
"well, what WILL change?
00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:15.120
"What WILL enable us to prevent
going to an illegal war?"
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.000
and Julian's idea,
with WikiLeaks
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.000
was that the goal is justice
and the method is transparency,
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:25.080
to show the public
what's really going on.
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:29.000
This movement is not about
the destruction of law.
00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.400
It is about
the construction of law!
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.680
REPORTER: In July 2010,
WikiLeaks and its collaborators
00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:55.120
went public
with a massive leak.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.440
The Afghan War logs
came from a trove
00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:00.880
of 90,000 incident
and intelligence reports.
00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:03.040
REPORTER: WikiLeaks
released this video.
00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:06.560
It shows a US Apache
helicopter crew in Iraq
00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:08.600
opening fire on a group of men.
00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:10.880
Some of them
were journalists from Reuters.
00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:13.920
(GUNFIRE)
- SOLDIER: Come on. Fire.
00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:15.680
Keep shooting.
00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:20.600
We have clear evidence for war
crimes having been committed.
00:14:42.680 --> 00:14:45.400
REPORTER: ..has changed
dramatically since April,
00:14:45.400 --> 00:14:47.200
when he was dragged by police
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.760
from the Ecuadorian Embassy
in London.
00:14:49.760 --> 00:14:53.440
REPORTER: A thin and
confused-looking Julian Assange
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:55.040
has been seen
for the first time
00:14:55.040 --> 00:14:56.960
since his April arrest,
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.360
the WikiLeaks founder
00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:00.120
struggling to remember
his birthday
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:04.480
as he was told his extradition
hearing WILL go ahead.
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.560
REPORTER: Fronting
Westminster Magistrates' Court
00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:09.120
in a navy suit
and clean-shaven,
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.960
the WikiLeaks founder
was noticeably thinner,
00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.080
struggling
to remember his birthdate,
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.360
saying,
"I can't think properly."
00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:19.480
Assange will remain behind bars
until that full
extradition hearing,
00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.320
which has been set down
for the end of February.
00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:06.000
ANNOUNCER: We will shortly
be arriving at Farringdon.
00:16:08.400 --> 00:16:09.880
STELLA MORIS: I met Julian
00:16:09.880 --> 00:16:12.800
because I had responded to
00:16:12.800 --> 00:16:15.120
an email from
Jennifer Robinson.
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.480
The legal defence team
needed more people.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.320
The case was developing
very quickly,
00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:25.480
and I was brought on to
work on the US investigation.
00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:31.480
In the beginning
of Julian being in prison,
00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.680
he could only call
a few times a week,
00:16:34.680 --> 00:16:36.080
when he was in...
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:39.960
...the unit for
desperately suicidal
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.160
or terminally ill people,
00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:45.800
and most of the time,
they're in isolation.
00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:49.280
So that's where Julian was
for about six months.
00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:51.880
I mean, Julian's had a...
00:16:51.880 --> 00:16:54.080
...a very...
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.200
...difficult time in the prison.
00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:59.640
(CHILD CHATTERS)
00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:06.240
JOHN SHIPTON:
Yes, but that's not very nice.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.520
You have the nice one,
the big one...
00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:10.840
(CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY)
00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:15.200
(CHILD SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:21.680
WOMAN: Stella...
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.160
(WOMAN SPEAKS SWEDISH)
00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.400
- Did you rest well?
- I did.
00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:34.480
- Oh.
- Yourself?
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:37.880
Yes, I did. I feel...
I feel human.
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:40.360
- (INDISTINCT)
- (CHUCKLES)
00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:42.000
- Dad?
- Yeah?
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.520
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.640
I took off my shoes already.
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:03.280
JOHN SHIPTON: Severine,
she asked when...when...
00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:06.360
are we gonna
get Julian out of jail, yeah.
00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:09.600
Severine thinks
it's an immediacy.
00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:11.760
We're just coming to
pick him up, you know?
00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.400
Get in the cab and...
00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:17.240
She doesn't really see that
we might end up in America
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:19.520
fighting this battle.
00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:27.440
JOHN SHIPTON: You know,
I find myself very different,
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.520
in that I have cultivated
within myself a love of family,
00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:36.800
because when I left school,
00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:39.840
or my father died,
after he died,
00:18:39.840 --> 00:18:42.280
I got all
the family photographs -
00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:44.520
oh, there was a fucking heap,
I tell you -
00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:46.320
and I burnt them.
00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:49.560
I wasn't going back there,
not for quids.
00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:51.520
INTERVIEWER:
What...you know...?
00:18:51.520 --> 00:18:53.360
What was going on
when you did that?
00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:57.240
Oh, who knows? You know?
Humans are complex.
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:01.920
Um... And...so I built...
00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:08.840
...copying from
books and plays and...
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.680
...mentors...
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.120
...the elements of families
in myself.
00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:18.080
Yeah, so I built it.
00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:21.440
It's a hou...
my mansion, you know?
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.800
And it has all these rooms,
which I've...
00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:28.960
...decorated
and put furniture in,
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.360
and I move into them.
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:35.280
No, that was me.
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.960
It's still
bottoming out somewhere.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.240
I want to stay with you.
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.720
- Darling, we have to go.
- (SOBS)
00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:52.280
- We have to go. OK?
- (SOBS) I want to be with you.
00:19:52.280 --> 00:19:54.960
Huh? Becau... You can't...
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.360
Because we can't
get in the jail.
00:19:57.360 --> 00:20:00.760
We're going to places
no children...
00:20:00.760 --> 00:20:03.680
It's just an awful place
I'm going to today.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.000
OK.
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:29.960
For whom?
00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:42.240
For the lawyers?
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.880
When you say 'us',
I don't understand.
00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:50.440
Oh.
00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:56.720
OK.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.280
STELLA MORIS: Julian's
always talked about
00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:02.080
how he...when he was...
when he was a child,
00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:04.880
growing up, he always...
00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:06.720
...knew he was different.
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.400
And he says...
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:11.720
...that he wasn't...
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.040
...he wasn't afraid
of an alien abduction.
00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:16.200
He was hoping that
it would happen soon
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.720
because he felt like an alien.
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.000
This must be the explanation,
right? (LAUGHS)
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.080
So it was very funny
to...to know
00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:27.760
that Julian and...and John
had only reconnected
00:21:27.760 --> 00:21:30.440
when Julian was already a...
00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.720
...you know, a mature adult.
00:21:34.800 --> 00:21:37.800
Because they are very similar
in some ways.
00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:39.760
I mean, I think it's very...
(LAUGHS)
00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:41.400
...in ways that are noticeable,
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.880
even to people
who don't know them personally.
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.800
Their thought processes
are recognisable -
00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:51.480
ability to abstract...
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.200
...storytelling.
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.600
And kind of
a cheeky sense of humour.
00:21:57.600 --> 00:22:00.760
And he's been really...
00:22:00.760 --> 00:22:02.040
...really good.
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.040
(LAUGHTER AND CHEERING)
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.720
JOHN SHIPTON: I get upset
in that fuckin' place.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.000
Three suicides
and one murder this month.
00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:06.560
MAN: And when did you first
know about Julian and Stella?
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.960
Generally speaking...
00:23:12.360 --> 00:23:14.200
(SIGHS)
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.600
...unlike other people...
00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:24.560
...I don't invade
people's privacy,
00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:26.480
nor I am...
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:31.400
...curious as to what...
who's going out with whom.
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:33.640
Um...
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.280
...so...
00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:39.560
...if I saw anything that
intimated...
00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:43.640
...intimacy...
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.800
...I...
00:23:45.800 --> 00:23:47.600
...ignored it
00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:50.800
or put it under the list
of familiarity.
00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:04.720
They've spent 10 years
00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:07.000
being pursued
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.640
by four powers,
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:14.520
one of them being
the foremost power on earth.
00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:18.720
In an extraordinary twist
to the WikiLeaks story,
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.760
Julian Assange, the founder
of the whistle-blower website,
00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:24.560
has taken refuge in
the Ecuador Embassy in London.
00:24:24.560 --> 00:24:26.040
REPORTER: Assange
is seeking asylum
00:24:26.040 --> 00:24:27.800
because he fears
extradition to Sweden
00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:30.360
may lead to his transfer
to the United States,
00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:33.720
where he could potentially face
charges relating to WikiLeaks.
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:52.720
STELLA MORIS:
It was around 2015
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.000
that we got together
in the embassy,
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.640
and we discussed
00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:03.040
the impossibility of having
children for a long time.
00:25:03.040 --> 00:25:06.400
And we experienced
this both as...
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.640
...as a massive tragedy, because
we had found each other.
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.160
And in 2016...
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:15.880
It seemed like
2016 was a turning point,
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.600
because the UN Working Group
on Arbitrary Detention
00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:21.920
had just ruled in favour of
Julian and against the UK,
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.480
saying that they were holding
him without any legal basis
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.680
and that they were actually
violating international law
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.080
by keeping him in the embassy,
and...and...
00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:31.000
...and it just seemed like...
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.560
...clearly,
it was just a matter of time
00:25:33.560 --> 00:25:35.640
before Julian could walk free.
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.840
So when we decided to
start a family,
00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:40.040
it was in a context
where there were no charges,
00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:41.800
there was no investigation,
00:25:41.800 --> 00:25:46.680
there was no reason for Julian
to be stuck in that embassy.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:51.000
So we had Gabriel in mid-2017,
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.640
and then I would bring him
into the embassy
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.720
with my friend Stephen,
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:01.000
and...and that way, Julian
was able to see our baby.
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.920
And that continued
for about six months.
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.920
(INDISTINCT CONVERSATIONS)
00:26:41.040 --> 00:26:44.120
(WHOOSHING)
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:51.200
STELLA MORIS:
You know, the whole place
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.880
was basically
bugged by the CIA.
00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:57.200
Beginning of 2018,
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.840
there was a grab team
posted outside the embassy
00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:02.160
during the Christmas period.
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.400
You know, the streets
were deserted outside,
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.240
and there this was car
that was there, conspicuous,
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.480
for...for us to see.
00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.800
And I remember John was there,
and we had...
00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:16.280
...we had
Christmas dinner and...
00:27:16.280 --> 00:27:18.360
...and we...you know,
we knew these...
00:27:18.360 --> 00:27:20.240
...these guys were
sitting out there.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.400
We found out that
there were plans to kill Julian
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.000
by poisoning him and...
00:27:30.560 --> 00:27:33.240
...abducting him
from the embassy.
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.760
Um...
00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:36.560
They grew...
00:27:36.560 --> 00:27:38.800
...increasingly aggressive.
00:27:40.280 --> 00:27:43.120
It got so bad that I had...
00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:45.840
...I was afraid
about walking home at night.
00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:49.560
Because I thought, you know...
00:27:51.120 --> 00:27:55.040
...I could just be beaten up
and assaulted or even killed
00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:58.680
just as a message to Julian.
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.680
And that's why towards the...
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.160
...the final three months
of my second pregnancy,
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.000
we decided it was best
for me not to go in.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.680
And then Julian was arrested.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.560
(CHILD CHATTERS)
00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.080
STELLA MORIS: No?
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:31.000
Oh, wow. We have a lot of
stories to get through tonight.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.200
- (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- I will help you, Mama.
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:37.880
Thank you.
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.520
Alright. Shall we start
with The Gingerbread Man?
00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:43.840
Yeah.
00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:45.480
Alright.
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.160
"Once upon a time,
there was a little old man.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.120
"One day, the little old woman
made a gingerbread man."
00:28:54.120 --> 00:28:56.080
Maybe Fergus Finds A Friend?
00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:03.480
The Saggy Baggy Elephant?
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:08.560
That's quite good.
00:29:08.560 --> 00:29:11.280
And the Going on a Lion Hunt?
Did you say you knew that one?
00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:20.680
Mmm.
00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:26.280
It's the...the bear hunt one.
They know the bear hunt one.
00:29:26.280 --> 00:29:28.040
- "We're going on a bear hunt."
- Oh, yeah.
00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:31.880
"We're gonna find...a big one."
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:50.400
Can we come in?
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.000
Ah.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.720
She cannot talk
'cause we've got to keep still.
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:02.880
STELLA MORIS: Extraditions
are 99% politics and 1% law.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.440
It's entirely the...
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.320
...political climate
around the case
00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:08.960
that decides the outcome,
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:11.880
and that is shaped by the...
by the media.
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:16.720
And for many years, there was
a climate that was created,
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:19.480
deliberately created,
through false stories,
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.240
through smears,
through kind of a character...
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.120
...relentless character attacks
on Julian,
00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:27.320
to try to reduce that support
00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:31.120
and make it
more possible, um...
00:30:31.120 --> 00:30:34.040
...more likely,
to successfully extradite him
00:30:34.040 --> 00:30:35.680
to the United States.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.160
And...I think it took
about a year
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.360
to really feel like
I was in a place
00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:43.760
where I could go public.
00:30:43.760 --> 00:30:46.760
Oh, where are those notes?
Can I just have a look?
00:30:46.760 --> 00:30:51.320
(MAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- Yeah.
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.720
Thank you very much
for talking to us.
00:30:58.720 --> 00:31:00.400
I want to ask you first of all
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.560
how you first met
Julian Assange
00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:04.000
and what you thought of him
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:06.160
when you first met him
nine years ago.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.480
I met Julian in Paddington,
at the Frontline Club.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.440
I thought he was intriguing,
a man with a...with a mission.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.600
INTERVIEWER: Julian Assange went into
the Ecuadorian Embassy in London
00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.000
because he wanted to avoid
being extradited to Sweden
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.320
to face questioning about
allegations of sexual assault.
00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:27.800
You know that case very well.
00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:29.480
What did you think
of the allegations made
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.040
by Miss A and Miss W
against him?
00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:34.640
What has to be understood
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.080
about the Swedish
preliminary investigation -
00:31:37.080 --> 00:31:39.200
because it was always
a preliminary investigation -
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:42.000
was that Julian
always cooperated.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.080
He did not go into the embassy
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.360
because he was
avoiding questioning.
00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:48.960
In fact,
he was offering questioning.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.640
Julian was never charged.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.600
None of their names
should have been leaked,
00:31:53.600 --> 00:31:55.440
including Julian's.
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:56.960
I think
the Swedish prosecution...
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.160
It's too long.
00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:59.760
I told him it's too long,
00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:02.640
but they don't take
any notice of me.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:04.920
One hour, maximum.
00:32:08.520 --> 00:32:12.520
These stupid PR people.
Just sick of them.
00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:17.800
Earlier this year, you said,
"Everyone has failed Julian.
00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:19.720
"We've all failed Julian."
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:21.560
What did you mean?
00:32:21.560 --> 00:32:23.960
I mean that Julian...
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:29.480
...is...extremely vulnerable.
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:35.360
Now physically in the country's
highest-security prison,
00:32:35.360 --> 00:32:38.760
he's in there
because he exposed torture.
00:32:38.760 --> 00:32:41.400
The contrast...
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.760
...just the... Sorry.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.560
...the injustice
is overwhelming.
00:32:57.320 --> 00:33:01.840
And it's hard, year after year.
00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.000
I don't think
this is people's values.
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.680
I don't think they think that
people who expose war crimes
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.400
should go to prison
for the rest of their lives.
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.400
(SNIFFS)
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:18.440
WOMAN: Uh, perhaps...
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:23.840
(SNIFFS)
00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:27.600
Do you want some...
tissue, yeah?
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:34.080
(JOHN SHIPTON
SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
00:33:37.280 --> 00:33:40.960
- Use this one.
- (SNIFFS) Thanks.
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.960
- Pear.
- You're eating pear.
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.480
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:57.320
(INAUDIBLE)
00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:04.200
INTERVIEWER: How do you
deal with the fact that...
00:34:05.800 --> 00:34:08.840
...your fiance may lose
his fight against extradition,
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:10.280
he may be sent to America,
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:12.960
he may be tried,
he may be jailed?
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:14.600
How do you cope with that?
00:34:14.600 --> 00:34:18.680
(SNIFFS, SIGHS) It's not a...
It's not a choice.
00:34:18.680 --> 00:34:21.800
Um...
You love who you love, and...
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.000
...I love Julian for the
courageous person he is,
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.280
and I'll stand by him.
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:34.640
Open the door.
00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:37.040
NILS MELZER: When Julian's
legal team contacted me,
00:34:37.040 --> 00:34:39.760
I have to admit, I mean, I...
I just saw the message
00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.520
kind of coming up on my screen,
00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:47.240
"Julian Assange's legal team
asks for your protection."
00:34:47.240 --> 00:34:49.280
And I immediately
had this reaction of,
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:50.880
"No, I'm not gonna
get into this."
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:55.920
But this reaction was not based
on an objective evaluation,
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.400
and I have to admit today,
to my shame,
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:02.400
it was just an emotional
reaction based on prejudice
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.520
that I had in myself
I wasn't even aware of.
00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:09.160
Why am I admitting to
my prejudice?
00:35:09.160 --> 00:35:11.080
Because I think...
00:35:11.080 --> 00:35:13.600
...all of us had them
at some point, maybe...
00:35:13.600 --> 00:35:16.640
...all of us who had not
been in personal contact
00:35:16.640 --> 00:35:18.520
with Julian Assange
00:35:18.520 --> 00:35:20.600
have been affected by this,
00:35:20.600 --> 00:35:22.760
because this is
the public narrative
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:26.000
that has been spread
in the media for 10 years,
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.720
and no-one has been able to...
00:35:28.720 --> 00:35:33.520
...actually see
how much deception there is.
00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:35.960
Why is this being done?
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:41.440
For 10 years, all of us have
only focused on Julian Assange,
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.400
when he never wanted it
to be about him.
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.840
It never WAS about him.
00:35:46.840 --> 00:35:49.000
It was about the States
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.200
and their war crimes
and their corruption.
00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:55.680
That's what HE wanted
to put the spotlight on.
00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:57.720
And he did.
00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:59.320
And that's what
made them angry.
00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:01.800
They put the spotlight on him.
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.280
JOHN SHIPTON: You know,
over the last 10 years,
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:18.840
journalists,
for some reason or other,
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.160
have seen fit to service...
00:36:22.160 --> 00:36:25.720
...the government's
attacks on Julian
00:36:25.720 --> 00:36:28.360
at the collapse
of their own self-interest
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.400
and their stature.
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.440
After so many years
of smearing and lobbying,
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:38.920
this is...a good sign,
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:40.640
that the newspapers...
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:46.240
...realise that the extradition
of Julian Assange
00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:49.160
and the destruction
of WikiLeaks
00:36:49.160 --> 00:36:52.920
is the collapse of THEIR power.
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:59.840
The mass media serves
only power and money, really.
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.720
Each...outlet serves
00:37:03.720 --> 00:37:07.240
a different cohort
of the society.
00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:09.200
That's their function.
00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:13.360
And if they drift from that,
then they will no longer exist.
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.840
REPORTER: In 1971, Ellsberg was
a high-level Pentagon analyst
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:22.640
when he leaked
a top-secret report
00:37:22.640 --> 00:37:24.400
on US involvement in Vietnam
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.320
that became known
as the Pentagon Papers,
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:30.240
which documented how officials had
lied to the public about the war.
00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:32.960
If Julian is extradited
to the United States
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:34.880
to face these charges,
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:38.120
he will be the FIRST journalist
and publisher,
00:37:38.120 --> 00:37:39.600
but not the last.
00:37:39.600 --> 00:37:41.960
New York Times probably
won't be the second either.
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.880
It might be
the third or the fourth.
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.360
Really, the American press
has remained
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.760
in kind of a state of denial
for 40 years, really,
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:52.080
since my case,
00:37:52.080 --> 00:37:54.520
that the Espionage Act
has wording in it
00:37:54.520 --> 00:37:56.520
that could be aimed
directly at them,
00:37:56.520 --> 00:37:58.600
at the journalists
and publishers,
00:37:58.600 --> 00:38:01.840
although until THIS case,
it hasn't done so.
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.080
So the stakes here
are enormous,
00:38:04.080 --> 00:38:07.960
and for freedom of the press
all over the world, in this.
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.040
- PROTESTERS: Free Assange!
- MAN: Free! Free!
00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:12.480
- Free Assange!
- Free! Free!
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:13.920
Free Assange!
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.360
- Free! Free!
- Free Assange!
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.680
REPORTER: Julian Assange
is preparing to head to court,
00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:20.720
where a hearing will begin into
whether he'll be extradited
00:38:20.720 --> 00:38:22.440
to the United States.
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.480
Protesters have marched
across Central London,
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:27.240
calling on Britain to reject
00:38:27.240 --> 00:38:30.080
the WikiLeaks founder's
deportation.
00:38:30.080 --> 00:38:33.400
JOHN SHIPTON: Thanks for
waiting, ladies and gentlemen.
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:35.400
What's at stake?
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.520
For Julian, his life.
00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:40.440
For you guys...
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.480
...any prestige that you
can gather, as a journalist,
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.000
protects you.
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:49.920
So this'll be the end.
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.520
Nobody, ever again,
00:38:52.520 --> 00:38:54.880
will be able to
get the assistance
00:38:54.880 --> 00:39:00.200
of 100,000 people worldwide
to defend them,
00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:02.240
100 lawyers,
00:39:02.240 --> 00:39:05.000
six jurisdictions,
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.440
in order to defend
Julian Assange.
00:39:08.680 --> 00:39:10.600
It'll never happen again.
00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:14.000
If he goes down,
so will journalism.
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.120
(APPLAUSE)
- Thank you. Thank you.
00:39:16.120 --> 00:39:18.720
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:21.480
- Can we get one?
- Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. OK.
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.520
Everybody...we're here...
00:39:23.520 --> 00:39:25.680
We're here until
everybody's satisfied.
00:39:25.680 --> 00:39:27.360
Yeah. Perfect.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:28.840
REPORTER: How does it feel
to be the father
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.000
of such a controversial figure,
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:32.760
somebody who's known
around the world?
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:36.440
Well, I don't see Julian,
myself, as controversial.
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.400
I see him as a...a good man.
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.600
I support Julian Assange
because he's my son
00:39:42.600 --> 00:39:44.840
and this is what a father does
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:49.280
when their children are
in difficulty or in trouble.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.560
We are...
00:39:51.560 --> 00:39:55.680
...very trusting
of our governments,
00:39:55.680 --> 00:39:58.320
because we believe
we elect them.
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.400
And I'm sure that
governments all over the world
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:03.800
will begin to realise
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:07.560
that they're faced with
a tremendous credibility gap.
00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:10.280
Just want to shake your hand.
Thank you for Julian, honestly.
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:11.680
Thank you. Thank you.
00:40:11.680 --> 00:40:13.720
You've done a really good job.
00:40:13.720 --> 00:40:15.080
- So proud.
- Thank you.
00:40:15.080 --> 00:40:16.920
- Could I just do a quick...?
- I can't do 15 minutes.
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.640
- No, you can't. I know. OK.
- We'll just be...I'll be five.
00:40:19.640 --> 00:40:21.440
I'll be dead.
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.840
- My name's Fionn O Lochlainn.
- Fionn. Fionn.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.320
- Fionn O Lochlainn.
- OK.
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.320
My first album is
called Spawn Of The Beast.
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.880
I should have been
on that stage today,
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:33.640
but for some reason,
your organisation
won't get in touch with me.
00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:35.080
It's not MY organisation.
00:40:35.080 --> 00:40:37.160
- I'm not even in it!
- Of course.
00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:39.480
- WOMAN: ..seconds.
- WOMAN 2: Sorry. I'm so sorry.
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:41.720
Just please let him know
when you see him tomorrow
00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:43.480
there are many people
from Australia,
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:46.240
me being one of them, that
are deeply thinking of him.
00:40:46.240 --> 00:40:47.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Go?
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.200
My name is John Shipton.
I'm Julian Assange's father.
00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:53.960
I've come to the rally here
today in Parliament Square.
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:58.160
Yeah, let's sit down. I mean,
I'm fuckin' worn out, you know?
00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:03.520
REPORTER:
Britain enters lockdown.
00:41:03.520 --> 00:41:07.880
Now people can only leave their
homes for very limited reasons.
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:09.840
From this evening,
I must give the British people
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.040
a very simple instruction.
00:41:12.040 --> 00:41:14.160
You must stay at home.
00:41:14.160 --> 00:41:16.840
That is the critical thing
we must do
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:20.760
to stop the disease
spreading between households.
00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:34.480
REPORTER:
The Australian Parliament
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:36.880
have called on
British officials and the judge
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.440
to release Julian Assange
00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:40.400
due to the rapid spread
of coronavirus
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:41.960
among the prison population
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:43.960
and the workers
at Belmarsh Prison,
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.760
where Assange is being held
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:49.920
23 and a half hours a day
in a solitary confinement cell.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:53.000
Yeah. OK. Yeah. OK.
Yeah, alright.
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:54.840
I just...you know,
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.120
I've got the young family
back in Australia
00:41:57.120 --> 00:41:59.000
I haven't seen now for months.
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:00.960
So that's a bit awkward.
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.760
And Julian's now
23 hours a day in the cell,
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.760
because it's locked down
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.600
and half the staff are off
00:42:09.600 --> 00:42:11.320
because they're
all sick with COVID
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.200
or too frightened
to come to work.
00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:16.520
The jail's in lockdown.
00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:19.160
I don't know how
they're getting papers
00:42:19.160 --> 00:42:20.640
backward and forward.
00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:26.200
They say that they have
only had one hour with Julian
00:42:26.200 --> 00:42:28.240
in five weeks.
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:36.120
"According to prosecutors..."
Yeah.
00:42:36.120 --> 00:42:39.360
This is why
we need you on bail.
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:40.840
We need... Yeah.
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.480
I mean, I...I can't see
how we can possibly...
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.000
...prepare a defence on these
fucking phones that are...
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:51.960
Anyway.
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.920
"According to prosecutors,
Assange obtained evidence...
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:56.600
"...access to..." Sorry.
00:42:57.600 --> 00:42:59.000
You have to call me back.
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.880
Call me back.
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:06.720
JOHN SHIPTON: Did you hear
the story I sent you?
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:09.280
SEVERINE: No.
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:13.360
JOHN SHIPTON: It's about
the Snoceros and Rapunzel.
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:15.280
(SNIFFS)
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.560
And Jill and Princess Mouse.
00:43:18.560 --> 00:43:23.440
SEVERINE: Do you want to
talk to me all day or...
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.800
...would you...
or have a little rest?
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.960
I want to talk to you forever.
00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:33.760
SEVERINE: No! I can't talk
forever. I need to eat food.
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.560
(LAUGHS) OK. Alright.
00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:39.640
I'll talk to you
tomorrow, then.
00:43:39.640 --> 00:43:42.040
How do we communicate this
to Julian?
00:43:42.040 --> 00:43:44.160
Because...
00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:47.520
...we're 10 days away
from the evidence deadline.
00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:50.840
We can't give him documents.
We can't go to see him.
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:52.960
Basically,
what we'll have to do
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:54.560
is we'll have to read out
00:43:54.560 --> 00:43:57.200
this 49-page document
over the phone.
00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:59.400
He can't even
take notes on a laptop,
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:01.880
because he
doesn't have a laptop.
00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:05.280
JOHN SHIPTON: Hi.
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.040
Yeah.
00:44:07.040 --> 00:44:11.720
Anyway, that's where
I work to fit in,
00:44:11.720 --> 00:44:14.200
as I'm an old man,
and I...you know.
00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:15.840
- Um...
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.800
(STAMMERS)
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.480
OK. OK.
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.960
Your question to my answers
always gets a raised eyebrow.
00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:27.480
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yes.
- (LAUGHS)
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.400
JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:32.640 --> 00:44:34.000
INTERVIEWER: Was that him
on the phone before?
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.840
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- MAN: Yeah.
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.800
INTERVIEWER: What are you talking
about on a kind of regular basis?
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:41.480
What sort of things?
00:44:46.080 --> 00:44:47.520
JOHN SHIPTON: Mmm.
00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:52.120
I think it must be nearly
11 years since Julian...
00:44:52.120 --> 00:44:55.600
...was in the company
of a tree or a plant...
00:44:57.160 --> 00:45:00.760
...or a caterpillar
or a butterfly, and...
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:02.480
...so he asked me, you know,
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:04.200
did we have a walk
in the forest?
00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:05.760
(LAUGHS)
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.280
And, yeah,
it was pleasant enough.
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:10.480
It's a sunny day out here.
00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:13.720
Bonding, I suppose, you know,
00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:16.640
when walking with his family
and so on, yeah.
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:25.280
I think if you applied
you know, your understanding
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:27.800
to what it would be like
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.840
to live in a room
for seven and a half years...
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:36.360
You'd just know
every nook and cranny and...
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:38.320
Ugh.
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:41.960
Everything would be familiar
with. And it's still ongoing.
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:45.360
So, yeah, the challenge is to
make him laugh, you know,
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.200
when he...
00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:50.240
...rings up,
which I do, you know?
00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:13.720
REPORTER: A happy family
relaxing in a London park,
00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:16.520
but there's a hole
at the heart of it.
00:46:16.520 --> 00:46:18.600
Stella Moris was
part of Assange's legal team
00:46:18.600 --> 00:46:20.360
before she got engaged to him.
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.800
Today, Stella will be
at the Old Bailey
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.200
for the start of up to
four weeks of legal arguments
00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:28.640
over whether her fiance should
be extradited to America.
00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:31.120
Julian hasn't seen his lawyers
for six months.
00:46:31.120 --> 00:46:33.360
The first day that
he'll have seen his lawyers
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:34.880
will be today.
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.880
(STELLA SPEAKS SWEDISH)
00:46:40.120 --> 00:46:42.920
(CHILD CRIES)
- Bye, sweetie.
00:46:44.640 --> 00:46:47.800
(SPEAKS SWEDISH)
00:46:51.720 --> 00:46:53.560
Julian Assange
is in our headlines.
00:46:53.560 --> 00:46:55.520
He's in a London courtroom
this morning
00:46:55.520 --> 00:46:57.960
finally facing
an extradition hearing.
00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.760
The court is
to decide if Assange
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.800
should be extradited
to the United States
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.360
to face a trial over
the publication of secrets.
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.520
REPORTER: The Trump administration
wants the Australian
00:47:08.520 --> 00:47:10.960
to face charges of espionage.
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.400
Legal observers say
it's an unprecedented breach of
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:16.440
US free speech protections.
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:19.000
The US Department of Justice
is going after him
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.960
under a different law now -
the Espionage Act.
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:24.680
That law has been used
against whistle-blowers before,
00:47:24.680 --> 00:47:27.280
but never against a publisher.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.000
We've never in this country
00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:32.600
successfully charged somebody
for publishing secret material.
00:47:32.600 --> 00:47:35.120
There is a reason - it's
called the First Amendment -
00:47:35.120 --> 00:47:36.440
that the US government
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.280
has never successfully
made that a crime before.
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.320
But here, with Assange,
they are trying to do it.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.040
If Assange's publishing
of classified information
00:47:45.040 --> 00:47:46.720
runs afoul of the law,
00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:48.400
so does the work of just about
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.400
every single
serious press outlet -
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:51.920
this one included.
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.960
The First Amendment protects
the basic right
00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.520
of a free press -
and a free people -
00:47:56.520 --> 00:48:00.080
to publish truthful information
about matters of public import,
00:48:00.080 --> 00:48:02.160
whether the government
likes it or not.
00:48:02.160 --> 00:48:04.640
(SHOUTING)
(WHISTLING)
00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:13.640
JOHN SHIPTON: All good?
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.800
- Morning, John.
- Good morning.
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:24.800
Good morning. Good to see you.
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.800
Good morning, Stella.
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.000
Please move, please!
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.160
Please. Move round these
people.
00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:33.520
Let the ladies through, please.
00:48:34.640 --> 00:48:37.320
- MAN: Free Julian Assange!
(HORNS HONK)
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.160
REPORTER: When did you last
speak to him
00:48:39.160 --> 00:48:40.720
and see him face-to-face?
00:48:40.720 --> 00:48:43.200
Six months ago,
when COVID locked down.
00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:45.440
They're not allowed
to see anybody.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.320
Have you seen him today?
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:49.240
- Only in the glass box.
- Oh, OK.
00:48:49.240 --> 00:48:51.440
- Yeah.
- Yeah. And how is he?
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.520
Uh...is he...
00:48:53.520 --> 00:48:55.600
I can't answer that.
How do I know?
00:48:55.600 --> 00:48:59.240
I was sitting upstairs. He's
in the glass box downstairs.
00:48:59.240 --> 00:49:02.680
I would love to go and see him,
but it's not allowed.
00:49:02.680 --> 00:49:03.920
I'll bring you a coffee here.
00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:05.920
I'm going to go
and have a coffee.
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.400
Yeah. I...I met you
and I know you.
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.480
I have to go. I have to go.
I have to look after...
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:12.080
Can I ask one question
for the news?
00:49:12.080 --> 00:49:14.040
No. No. No!
I just did 10 questions.
00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:16.440
- You have to come to this...
- Thank you so much for this.
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:17.480
Thank you.
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:20.000
- Free Julian Assange!
- I'm done. I'm done. I'm done.
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:22.680
- Just...just...just one thing.
- I'm done.
00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:24.880
(PROTESTERS SHOUT)
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:26.400
(MURMURS) Oh, dear.
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.000
Yeah. Oh, yes.
00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:36.160
(LAUGHS) Well, you know...
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:38.640
Thank you.
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:42.040
Oh, you...you...
Yeah?
00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:44.280
...if you were fighting
for YOUR kids, you would.
00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:46.240
Yeah. I...I hope so.
00:49:46.240 --> 00:49:48.560
(BLOWS RASPBERRY)
00:49:48.560 --> 00:49:50.080
Bit scared.
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:55.120
INTERVIEWER: Scared?
00:49:55.120 --> 00:49:56.720
Running out of juice.
00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:09.240
EDWARD SNOWDEN: But Julian
Assange, right now, today,
00:50:09.240 --> 00:50:10.840
is in court in the UK,
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:13.040
fighting an extradition trial
to the United States.
00:50:13.040 --> 00:50:15.680
Now, he really
fell out of favour in 2016
00:50:15.680 --> 00:50:17.680
because he published
the Hillary emails
00:50:17.680 --> 00:50:21.160
and everything like that,
or Podesta emails.
00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:23.720
But he's not
being charged for that.
00:50:23.720 --> 00:50:26.760
The extradition trial
has nothing to do with that.
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:30.280
Actually, the US government
is trying to extradite this guy
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:32.720
and put him in prison
for the rest of his life
00:50:32.720 --> 00:50:36.120
for the BEST work
that WikiLeaks ever did,
00:50:36.120 --> 00:50:39.960
which is the Iraq and
Afghanistan War logs, right?
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:43.560
Detainee records
in Guantanamo Bay -
00:50:43.560 --> 00:50:47.520
things that are about explicit
war crimes and abuses of power.
00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:50.000
JOE ROGAN: There's many things
that are disturbing about this case,
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.680
but another thing
that's been disturbing was,
00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:55.120
he was a guy
who the left supported
00:50:55.120 --> 00:50:59.120
up until 2016, and then
it became inconvenient.
00:50:59.120 --> 00:51:01.240
EDWARD SNOWDEN: When he was
dragging Bush, it was great.
00:51:01.240 --> 00:51:02.840
- Then when he's dragging...
- JOE ROGAN: Yes!
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:04.120
...Clinton, it's not so great.
00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:06.040
JOE ROGAN: He was
the darling of the left.
00:51:06.040 --> 00:51:08.240
I mean, they were all,
"Free Julian Assange."
00:51:08.240 --> 00:51:10.000
And it's so interesting
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.920
how that narrative
can shift so completely to,
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.200
all of a sudden,
he's a puppet of Russia.
00:51:17.200 --> 00:51:20.880
It's amazing how that
kind of propaganda,
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.600
when you just get
at the surface veneer
00:51:23.600 --> 00:51:25.840
of whatever the narrative
they're trying to push,
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:27.640
how well it spreads.
00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:34.560
JOHN SHIPTON: Snowden was
across the material really well.
00:51:34.560 --> 00:51:35.640
Yeah.
00:51:37.160 --> 00:51:39.360
- REPORTER: One second, John.
- JOHN SHIPTON: Yeah.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:40.880
What happened today, John?
00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:43.960
It was a very strong day
for the defence.
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.240
There's nobody,
in the last 10 years,
00:51:47.240 --> 00:51:51.520
been harmed
when the files were released,
00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:55.800
and all of the cables,
15,000 cables, were redacted,
00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:00.560
so overall, the intensity
of the week is demonstrating
00:52:00.560 --> 00:52:02.880
the thoroughness of redactions
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:08.600
and the care for people and
treasuring and cherishing life.
00:52:22.040 --> 00:52:23.720
- We've covered...
- OK.
00:52:23.720 --> 00:52:26.040
...the case for
a long, long time. So...
00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:28.640
- OK. OK.
- ...an update from you...
00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:30.480
- Here's John.
- Hi. How are you?
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:31.880
- Hi.
- Nice to meet you.
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:33.000
- Keir?
- Keir. Yeah.
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:34.080
- Keir? Oh.
- Yeah.
00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:38.240
Your son is somebody that
everybody thinks they know
00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:40.640
and has an opinion about.
00:52:40.640 --> 00:52:42.600
But he's YOUR son.
00:52:42.600 --> 00:52:44.200
- JOHN SHIPTON: Yep.
- Must be...
00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:47.080
Generally...generally,
I don't...
00:52:47.080 --> 00:52:51.600
Yeah, I keep away
from commentary about Julian.
00:52:51.600 --> 00:52:56.040
Do you think that
he has been naive at times?
00:52:56.040 --> 00:52:57.640
Naive?
00:52:57.640 --> 00:53:04.240
Expecting states to obey
their own laws is hardly naive.
00:53:04.240 --> 00:53:07.240
Are you proud of...
of...of what he did there?
00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:11.520
I'm proud of his endurance
and courage, intelligence.
00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:14.400
Do you think that
Julian is a journalist?
00:53:15.560 --> 00:53:17.160
Well, of course.
00:53:17.160 --> 00:53:22.880
He now has, I think,
it's 26 journalism awards.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:24.480
And what are your worst fears?
00:53:27.080 --> 00:53:28.520
That he...
00:53:30.120 --> 00:53:34.160
...that he just collapses
under the strain, I mean, yeah.
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.240
- Yeah. Good. Good? Yeah.
- WOMAN: Mm-hm.
00:53:38.240 --> 00:53:39.640
- Great.
- WOMAN: Yep.
00:53:39.640 --> 00:53:41.600
We'll need a walk-in shot,
if that's OK.
00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:43.040
- Do you need a shot of them...
- There's a...
00:53:43.040 --> 00:53:46.000
...standing by,
one listening to the other?
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.800
JOHN SHIPTON: Listen, why don't
you people wind this up?
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:53.560
You must do...you...
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.400
Oh, yeah, OK. Sorry.
Just wondering.
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:01.840
- Worried about your crew?
- Yeah.
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:03.880
Like, he's looking
at the computer.
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.040
He should be over here
winding you up
00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:07.640
and saying,
"You've had enough."
00:54:09.160 --> 00:54:11.840
INTERVIEWER: Did you feel that
interview was too soft?
00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.000
- No.
- No?
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.880
No, it was fine.
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:17.520
Just too long.
00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:21.400
INTERVIEWER: Will you watch things
like that back or you're not...?
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:22.760
Or you just wait?
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:25.480
Like, how do you monitor
the interviews that you do?
00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:28.160
Or do you at all?
Can you keep up with them now?
00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:30.080
Oh, I've never
watched one, ever.
00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:31.080
INTERVIEWER: No?
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:37.480
Sometimes I listen
to Severine’s stories,
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:40.560
to remember what
the characters are doing,
00:54:40.560 --> 00:54:43.400
but I...I've never
watched an interview.
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.160
INTERVIEWER: And why is the
reason for that, for you?
00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:58.040
Mmm... I don't like them.
(LAUGHS)
00:55:00.640 --> 00:55:02.680
INTERVIEWER: I guess
what I was getting at is
00:55:02.680 --> 00:55:04.960
how hard are you on yourself?
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:06.840
'Cause such a big part
of what you're doing
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.920
is to be clearly understood.
00:55:13.240 --> 00:55:15.480
Well, my...
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.560
...Great-Uncle Vivian,
00:55:17.560 --> 00:55:19.440
he died youngish, you know,
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:22.600
at 35 or 38,
something like that.
00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:29.520
On his gravestone is the...
00:55:29.520 --> 00:55:32.440
...his name and the date he died
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:36.320
and the inscription
"Not understood."
00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.680
Yeah.
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.960
I don't much like
talking about myself,
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.560
because it's always sectional,
00:55:54.560 --> 00:55:57.240
and a life is really
a rich thing, you know?
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.800
But I find myself...
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:03.680
...distinct...
00:56:03.680 --> 00:56:05.680
...and...
00:56:05.680 --> 00:56:08.360
...consequently, not understood.
00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:12.240
You know, the more
distinct you are,
00:56:12.240 --> 00:56:14.640
you just become more lonely,
00:56:14.640 --> 00:56:16.520
until...
00:56:16.520 --> 00:56:20.640
...you are faced with
the abomination of desolation
00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:23.080
and existential panic
00:56:23.080 --> 00:56:26.200
as you become
more and more distinct,
00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:30.320
and so you become silent,
you know?
00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:37.320
And this is your burden,
the essence of your being.
00:56:38.720 --> 00:56:42.480
Situations like this,
you know, um...
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:47.480
...it's sort of
an interior conflict for me.
00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:52.040
INTERVIEWER: But if people
walked away from this film
00:56:52.040 --> 00:56:53.800
understanding you...
00:56:53.800 --> 00:56:56.160
...well, got the sense
of understanding you
00:56:56.160 --> 00:56:58.280
a little bit...
00:56:58.280 --> 00:56:59.880
...more deeply...
00:57:01.600 --> 00:57:03.840
...how would you feel
about that?
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:05.080
Oh...
00:57:05.080 --> 00:57:09.800
Well, I'd be very grateful
and moved, you know?
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:13.040
That'd be nice.
It'd be more than nice.
00:57:13.040 --> 00:57:14.440
But...
00:57:16.200 --> 00:57:19.640
We're here,
and this has only come about
00:57:19.640 --> 00:57:22.200
because we have a problem,
you know?
00:57:22.200 --> 00:57:23.800
We have a child in the shit.
00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:25.280
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- And...
00:57:26.600 --> 00:57:28.080
...I want to get him out.
00:57:32.200 --> 00:57:34.960
The energies aren't with me.
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:36.920
It's not 'John Shipton',
you know?
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:40.560
The energies are with US
and the...
00:57:40.560 --> 00:57:43.920
...you know, "Cometh the hour,
cometh the man."
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.960
The Greeks always say,
"Of gods, there are many.
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:50.720
"Of men, there are few."
00:57:50.720 --> 00:57:51.960
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.040
(INDISTINCTLY CONVERSATION)
00:57:54.040 --> 00:57:57.560
I bought them because
Ai Weiwei was here today.
00:57:57.560 --> 00:57:59.960
- And he's a man of peace.
- Yeah, yeah.
00:57:59.960 --> 00:58:02.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Now...come on.
00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:04.680
You're always cranky.
You have to have a flower.
00:58:04.680 --> 00:58:07.160
- Cranky? Me?
- (LAUGHS)
00:58:11.120 --> 00:58:13.520
Good morning. Good morning.
00:58:13.520 --> 00:58:14.640
How are you?
00:58:14.640 --> 00:58:16.640
It's good to see you.
You look well.
00:58:16.640 --> 00:58:18.400
- Huh?
- (MORE LOUDLY) You look well.
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.680
- You look well.
- I...yeah.
00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:24.800
Yeah. We...we go in together.
00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:28.360
Yes. Yeah.
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:29.440
OK.
00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:34.960
Yes.
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:38.960
Yes.
00:58:41.080 --> 00:58:45.240
No. No. Yeah. Yeah.
In the fight. Yeah. Yep.
00:58:45.240 --> 00:58:46.800
Yep.
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:50.240
REPORTER: Why do you think
00:58:50.240 --> 00:58:52.960
there's not a great public love
of Mr Assange?
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:14.760
MAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:40.680 --> 00:59:42.680
(SIREN WAILS)
(SHOUTING)
00:59:42.680 --> 00:59:44.680
Oh, God. Here we go.
00:59:46.520 --> 00:59:48.720
I don't like to start
too early,
00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:51.040
but what can you do?
00:59:51.040 --> 00:59:53.400
(INDISTINCT SHOUTING)
00:59:56.560 --> 01:00:00.360
Well, the big ones were
the dispute over sentencing.
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.360
Then they went on
to the sort of jail
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:05.440
that Julian would be held in
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:07.720
and the conditions in the jail.
01:00:07.720 --> 01:00:11.720
One of the wardens
did go as much to say
01:00:11.720 --> 01:00:16.400
that time in his jail
is worse than death.
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:17.560
REPORTER: Thank you
very much, John.
01:00:17.560 --> 01:00:18.560
JOHN SHIPTON: Thank you.
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:34.600
MAN: Supermax is
life after death.
01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:37.320
It adds punishment
to the crime.
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.080
Today, there's 420 inmates
in the prison.
01:00:40.080 --> 01:00:42.040
They've killed staff.
They've killed guards.
01:00:42.040 --> 01:00:45.240
They've earned, if you will,
the right to go to supermax.
01:00:45.240 --> 01:00:49.040
You're designing it so the inmates
can't see the sky, intentionally.
01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:52.800
And it's far...
much worse than death.
01:00:54.120 --> 01:00:58.760
So today, the... (SIGHS)
..three days of medical...
01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:00.960
...evidence begins.
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:03.600
It will start with...
01:01:03.600 --> 01:01:07.080
...the US will
try to argue that...
01:01:07.080 --> 01:01:09.720
...yes, that he has, um...
01:01:12.200 --> 01:01:13.800
...mental health problems
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:18.920
but that these can be managed
in the US setting.
01:01:18.920 --> 01:01:20.400
Um...
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:22.000
So it kind of dovetails with
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.480
the US prison conditions
as well.
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:28.080
When I was speaking
to Julian yesterday,
01:01:28.080 --> 01:01:30.440
he said,
"They're burgling my mind,
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.960
"and they're doing it
in a judicial setting."
01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:36.200
INTERVIEWER: And, John,
01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:39.480
did this psychological
cross-examination of Julian's...
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:43.360
...state at the moment,
was this something that...
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.840
...that you had a similar...
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:47.600
...feeling towards?
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:52.400
Oh, in some senses,
I don't think it matters much.
01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.040
There's so...
01:01:56.440 --> 01:01:57.760
There's, uh...
01:02:04.360 --> 01:02:06.800
...so many...
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.480
...opinions about Julian.
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.840
It just joins them, you know...
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.400
...in the layer of opinions,
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:20.040
that Julian's
this, that or the other.
01:02:20.040 --> 01:02:21.360
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
01:02:25.040 --> 01:02:27.560
It matters
in the legal context.
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:36.440
But in a...
in a spiritual sense, it is...
01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:38.400
...depraved...
01:02:40.720 --> 01:02:46.120
...tearing the liver,
over and over again, from...
01:02:46.120 --> 01:02:48.920
...the person, the...
01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:54.200
...that brought...brought
the gift of fire to...people.
01:02:56.440 --> 01:03:00.280
Do you know that legend?
Prometheus.
01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:03.480
It's extraordinary.
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:08.840
Very hard to explain to people.
01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:51.280
- (SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
- Yes.
01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:05.160
- DRIVER: Let's go?
- Yep.
01:04:05.160 --> 01:04:08.720
- DRIVER: Yep?
- Oh, gee. It was torrid today.
01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:18.200
Oh.
01:04:18.200 --> 01:04:20.240
Are you OK from that?
01:04:20.240 --> 01:04:21.400
Yep.
01:04:30.240 --> 01:04:32.560
INTERVIEWER: Can we talk about
his health at the moment
01:04:32.560 --> 01:04:34.960
and his autism diagnosis?
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.040
JOHN SHIPTON:
I'm not interested in that.
01:04:37.040 --> 01:04:39.440
He is as he is, to me.
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:41.040
- INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
- Yeah.
01:04:41.040 --> 01:04:44.320
INTERVIEWER: Can you explain
how that...
01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:46.280
- I have no interest in it.
- ...manifests itself?
01:04:46.280 --> 01:04:48.960
I have no interest in it.
He is as he is.
01:04:51.600 --> 01:04:54.000
INTERVIEWER: What do you understand
of autism? What do you...?
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.960
JOHN SHIPTON:
Oh, I've no idea what it is.
01:04:55.960 --> 01:04:59.400
You know, I don't relate
really well to people myself.
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.480
In fact...
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.480
...generally speaking, I...
01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:08.960
...I had no idea what people
were like until quite late...
01:05:08.960 --> 01:05:11.240
...in life.
01:05:11.240 --> 01:05:16.880
But I just was always throwing
myself up against ideas that...
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.400
Well, people said
I was angry, you know,
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:23.120
but I'm mild-natured,
so I can't have been too angry.
01:05:28.120 --> 01:05:31.160
INTERVIEWER: When's your earliest
memory of that occurring?
01:05:31.160 --> 01:05:36.200
JOHN SHIPTON: I suppose the
earliest memory was 11 and 12,
01:05:36.200 --> 01:05:40.720
writing the works of Voltaire
on the blackboard
01:05:40.720 --> 01:05:43.320
while everybody was...
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:44.760
...in chapel,
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:49.640
because I knew their beliefs
are otherwise.
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:54.400
You know, I...
01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:57.400
...I think...from the age of...
01:05:59.200 --> 01:06:01.080
...15 onwards
01:06:01.080 --> 01:06:03.800
suffered from
varying depths of depression
01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:05.880
until about 28 or 29.
01:06:07.200 --> 01:06:09.720
Um...
01:06:09.720 --> 01:06:11.920
So I was pretty quiet,
you know?
01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:13.480
INTERVIEWER: Mmm. Mmm.
01:06:14.640 --> 01:06:18.240
JOHN SHIPTON: I was a hermit
for a while. That's not much fun.
01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:25.960
But I found myself
riddled with fractures
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:29.400
and objections and...
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.560
...guilts and shames and...
01:06:32.560 --> 01:06:36.880
...all of those devilish things.
01:06:40.080 --> 01:06:42.280
INTERVIEWER: What brought you
out of that period, then?
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:43.560
JOHN SHIPTON:
Well, I don't know.
01:06:43.560 --> 01:06:46.560
You know, just...
you just learn techniques
01:06:46.560 --> 01:06:49.680
of how to relate to people,
yeah.
01:06:49.680 --> 01:06:52.720
Also, my curiosity, you know,
was boundless,
01:06:52.720 --> 01:06:57.960
so I gradually discovered ways
to be with people
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:03.680
without collapsing into
nervous distress, um...
01:07:03.680 --> 01:07:06.760
You might say one was Aspergic
01:07:06.760 --> 01:07:11.400
and, through suffering,
learnt technique.
01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:13.720
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- You know? So...
01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:19.200
...I had a burning desire,
still have it,
01:07:19.200 --> 01:07:21.600
to be able to...
01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:23.560
...to give love.
01:07:23.560 --> 01:07:26.680
I just wanted to do that.
I wanted to love people.
01:07:28.160 --> 01:07:32.120
But people are funny creatures.
01:07:32.120 --> 01:07:33.240
Um...
01:07:33.240 --> 01:07:36.280
And in order to love them,
01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:40.120
you have to find
what they want,
01:07:40.120 --> 01:07:43.520
how they want love
to come to them.
01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:48.800
And so learning that
was a bit of a craft.
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:52.840
INTERVIEWER: But did you feel that
came easier to others than you?
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:54.080
Or is that something
you sense...?
01:07:54.080 --> 01:07:56.400
Oh, no, no. I don't...
People don't do it.
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.520
You know,
they only do it out of...
01:07:58.520 --> 01:08:01.920
They do it as
a transactional exchange.
01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:04.000
They WANT love,
01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:06.120
so they give it
in order to get it.
01:08:07.240 --> 01:08:10.240
I just wanted to be able to...
to love.
01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:11.560
- INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
- Um...
01:08:12.600 --> 01:08:13.600
Mmm.
01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:19.040
INTERVIEWER: Have you just
stepped into the film now?
01:08:19.040 --> 01:08:20.320
- Me?
- INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
01:08:20.320 --> 01:08:21.920
Yeah. That's... (LAUGHS)
01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:23.320
INTERVIEWER: This is our
routine in the morning.
01:08:23.320 --> 01:08:24.520
Oh, right.
01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:27.320
(SHOUTING)
(DRUMS BEAT)
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:32.440
Good morning. Good morning.
Good morning. Good morning.
01:08:32.440 --> 01:08:33.880
- Are you well today?
- Good morning.
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:36.800
Yes, yes. Good morning.
Well, thank you.
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:39.240
This is Gabriel,
Julian's brother.
01:08:39.240 --> 01:08:40.800
Hi. How are you?
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.280
This is Gabriel.
This is Julian's brother.
01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:46.360
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
01:08:46.360 --> 01:08:48.440
This is Gabriel,
Julian's brother.
01:08:50.320 --> 01:08:53.960
Julian Assange has been
suffering terrible deprivation,
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:57.840
and all because
he published the truth.
01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:02.880
And much of that truth
revealed terrible crimes -
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:06.000
war crimes
and crimes against humanity,
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:08.760
and lies and corruption
by government.
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:12.680
And not one of the people
who committed those war crimes
01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.000
is on trial anywhere.
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:17.240
Instead, we have the man
01:09:17.240 --> 01:09:21.000
who had the courage
to reveal those war crimes
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:24.280
is the one
whose liberty is at stake,
01:09:24.280 --> 01:09:26.640
and that is not right.
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:29.360
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
01:09:36.200 --> 01:09:39.080
I mean, I think
this is an important...
01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:43.040
...process overall
that you're going from...
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:46.960
...that the criminality
is not Julian.
01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:48.720
Julian is, like, the...
01:09:50.040 --> 01:09:51.760
...he's the victim, right,
01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:53.920
and there's all this
criminality surrounding him,
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:57.280
and he's the one exposing
the criminality and so on.
01:09:57.280 --> 01:09:58.600
Um...
01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:01.440
So you have to shift the...
01:10:01.440 --> 01:10:04.200
...perception of...
of where the crime is.
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:30.680
REPORTER: ...concerned
about how he will handle
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:32.160
the end of his presidency.
01:10:32.160 --> 01:10:34.200
President Trump's
brazen and delusional push
01:10:34.200 --> 01:10:36.080
to overturn the 2020 election
01:10:36.080 --> 01:10:38.280
is alarming
some senior officials
01:10:38.280 --> 01:10:40.160
and people
close to the President,
01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:41.680
who say they're concerned about
01:10:41.680 --> 01:10:43.640
how he's handling
his final weeks...
01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:45.040
STELLA MORIS:
My parents were engaged in
01:10:45.040 --> 01:10:48.160
the apartheid struggle
in South Africa.
01:10:48.160 --> 01:10:50.320
We were living in Botswana,
01:10:50.320 --> 01:10:52.400
and, as a child, growing up,
01:10:52.400 --> 01:10:55.560
we would be going to
the rallies and singing the...
01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:57.800
...the freedom,
the liberation, songs
01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:01.040
and have these stories about
01:11:01.040 --> 01:11:04.880
the heroes
and the martyrs, I guess,
01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:07.320
the ones who...who
didn't survive.
01:11:07.320 --> 01:11:11.520
And that kind of shaped
a lot of my early years,
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:14.360
my early political education.
01:11:14.360 --> 01:11:18.720
You know, there was a very
clear sense of right and wrong
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:22.600
and of...clear oppression,
01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:26.280
of things that were
being done to good people.
01:11:29.160 --> 01:11:32.000
So I studied politics and law,
01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:35.680
and it was definitely
because I was drawn to...
01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:40.400
...issues to do with
justice and power, I guess.
01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:42.160
Should I go for the rest?
01:11:45.160 --> 01:11:47.120
Wait, wait.
01:11:47.120 --> 01:11:48.640
Hold on.
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:49.880
OK.
01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:53.600
So this one in Belmarsh a few
minutes ago, outside Belmarsh.
01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:57.480
(CHOIR SINGS)
- It's a gospel choir.
01:11:57.480 --> 01:12:00.480
And they're standing outside,
like, the main entrance,
01:12:00.480 --> 01:12:02.720
where you're
not supposed to film.
01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:05.800
- That's Daddy.
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yep.
01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:09.000
- I think they sang two songs.
- That was Daddy.
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.880
- Daddy.
- It's Daddy, isn't it?
01:12:12.880 --> 01:12:15.160
(CHOIR SINGS)
01:12:15.160 --> 01:12:17.680
- My daddy.
- It's Daddy.
01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:22.560
♪ Something inside so strong
01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:26.080
♪ I know that I can make it
01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:29.280
♪ Though you're doing me wrong,
so wrong
01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:32.440
♪ You thought that
my pride was gone
01:12:32.440 --> 01:12:35.280
♪ Oh, no
01:12:35.280 --> 01:12:39.240
♪ Something inside
so strong... ♪
01:12:46.160 --> 01:12:48.320
STELLA MORIS:
Well, they're all in...
01:12:48.320 --> 01:12:50.520
...you know...
01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:52.240
...winter jackets and...
01:12:59.080 --> 01:13:00.560
(CHUCKLES)
01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:03.280
There was a lot of singing
in South Africa as well.
01:13:07.160 --> 01:13:08.360
This too much?
01:13:13.080 --> 01:13:15.440
Mama! Look!
01:13:15.440 --> 01:13:17.720
It's time to get ready for bed.
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:20.080
- But, look...
- Toys in the box.
01:13:20.080 --> 01:13:23.640
GABRIEL: It was so good,
the music.
01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:25.760
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Mm-hm.
- STELLA MORIS: Music?
01:13:25.760 --> 01:13:28.240
JULIAN ASSANGE:
It was good, that music.
01:13:28.240 --> 01:13:29.840
STELLA MORIS:
Do you want to show Daddy
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:32.840
how you can sing
Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star?
01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:36.080
GABRIEL: ♪ Twinkle,
twinkle, twinkle... ♪
01:13:36.080 --> 01:13:38.000
(SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:39.840
JULIAN ASSANGE:
Keep going. Keep going.
01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:44.400
♪ Twinkle, twinkle,
little star... ♪
01:13:44.400 --> 01:13:48.080
(GABRIEL BABBLES)
- ♪ How I wonder what you are.
01:13:48.080 --> 01:13:51.400
GABRIEL: ♪ Twinkle,
twinkle, twinkle... ♪
01:13:52.440 --> 01:13:55.400
(BELLS PEAL)
01:14:00.400 --> 01:14:02.080
Hi.
01:14:02.080 --> 01:14:03.400
JULIAN ASSANGE: How are you?
01:14:03.400 --> 01:14:05.760
Alright.
01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:07.800
- So...
- Yes?
01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.680
...there's someone else using...
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:12.520
...Purple Visits next to you?
01:14:17.400 --> 01:14:18.840
Oh, OK.
01:14:18.840 --> 01:14:20.120
Um...
01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:23.320
...how are you?
01:14:23.320 --> 01:14:25.360
Are you covering
your neck beard?
01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:42.080
A power nap? You see?
01:14:42.080 --> 01:14:43.640
I can tell.
01:14:47.480 --> 01:14:49.120
(LAUGHS)
01:14:51.240 --> 01:14:53.360
Well, I'm in the kids' room.
01:14:53.360 --> 01:14:55.520
Well, where I sleep as well.
01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:59.280
- See?
- JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.
01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:03.680
And it's a sunny day outside.
Want to see?
01:15:07.480 --> 01:15:09.040
It's the inner yard.
01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:12.200
STELLA MORIS: Yeah.
01:15:12.200 --> 01:15:14.240
(HOOVES CLOP)
- Do you want me to go out?
01:15:19.160 --> 01:15:21.720
(HOOVES CLOP)
01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:23.000
Yeah.
01:15:24.080 --> 01:15:25.720
(HORSE WHINNIES)
01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:28.480
Yeah. (LAUGHS)
01:15:39.040 --> 01:15:41.440
- (BABBLES)
- Come here.
01:15:43.120 --> 01:15:44.600
STELLA MORIS:
I think many people
01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:48.320
who have had
a family member with a...
01:15:48.320 --> 01:15:51.160
...you know, a depressive
disorder or severe depression,
01:15:51.160 --> 01:15:53.920
you just don't know
how you can help,
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:55.400
and specially
in this situation,
01:15:55.400 --> 01:15:57.440
where you're not even there,
01:15:57.440 --> 01:16:00.560
you don't really know
what's going on,
01:16:00.560 --> 01:16:03.200
only what they tell you, um...
01:16:05.280 --> 01:16:07.280
it can be really, really tough.
01:16:07.280 --> 01:16:08.920
Uh, so...
01:16:15.080 --> 01:16:17.000
Yeah, I mean, it's...
01:16:19.120 --> 01:16:21.480
Without the phone calls,
it would be...
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:25.280
...enormously...
01:16:27.120 --> 01:16:29.840
...challenging and difficult.
Uh...
01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:32.840
With the phone calls,
it's still challenging
and difficult,
01:16:32.840 --> 01:16:34.120
but it's...
01:16:38.200 --> 01:16:40.360
...it's really important,
01:16:40.360 --> 01:16:41.960
for both of us.
01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.080
No, it's OK. I have to go.
I have everything.
01:16:45.080 --> 01:16:46.640
All the important stuff
is in this...
01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:50.040
(BABBLES CHILDISHLY)
(YAWNS)
01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:01.520
- You OK?
- Yeah.
01:17:10.160 --> 01:17:12.880
(SEVERINE BABBLES
IN SING-SONG VOICE)
01:17:20.120 --> 01:17:21.600
So...
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.120
...how long...when are...
01:17:24.120 --> 01:17:27.440
How longer
are you gonna be in...
01:17:27.440 --> 01:17:29.760
...in...in London?
01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:31.760
It won't be long now.
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.320
Just another 60 story times.
01:17:35.320 --> 01:17:37.000
(LAUGHS)
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:42.400
JOHN SHIPTON: If I could give,
illustrate, something about us,
01:17:42.400 --> 01:17:50.280
in Moby-Dick, they would
spot a whale pod from the mast,
01:17:50.280 --> 01:17:51.680
and they'd launch the boats.
01:17:51.680 --> 01:17:55.480
Now, if the whales
are disciplined,
01:17:55.480 --> 01:17:59.960
they can probably
outrun the rowing boats
01:17:59.960 --> 01:18:01.840
that are after them.
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:05.440
But the rowing boats
keep on coming,
01:18:05.440 --> 01:18:07.520
keep on coming, keep on coming,
01:18:07.520 --> 01:18:10.240
keep on coming,
keep on coming.
01:18:10.240 --> 01:18:14.240
And this translates to a...
01:18:14.240 --> 01:18:16.520
...a fear...
01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:18.240
...in the pod.
01:18:18.240 --> 01:18:19.960
And the...
01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:22.120
...the fear...
01:18:22.120 --> 01:18:24.760
...generates urgency,
01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:27.840
and urgency generates panic,
01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:29.800
and the panic...
01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:32.760
...causes them to break form.
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.400
Once they break in form,
01:18:34.400 --> 01:18:36.560
they fall victim
to the hunters.
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:37.880
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:39.240
JOHN SHIPTON: You learn,
01:18:39.240 --> 01:18:41.480
through practice after practice
after practice
01:18:41.480 --> 01:18:42.920
to keep form.
01:18:44.320 --> 01:18:46.840
As long as you keep to form...
01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:52.840
REPORTER: For publishing hundreds of
thousands of classified documents,
01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:54.800
he faces
a maximum jail sentence
01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:58.360
of 175 years
under the Espionage Act.
01:18:58.360 --> 01:19:01.680
He's already spent 21 months
in a UK prison.
01:19:01.680 --> 01:19:04.400
On Monday, a judge
at London's Old Bailey
01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:08.560
will decide whether he can be
extradited to the United States,
01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:11.800
but both sides can appeal a
decision that goes against them,
01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:13.200
so either way,
01:19:13.200 --> 01:19:16.280
Julian Assange's legal
struggles are set to continue.
01:19:25.400 --> 01:19:27.320
JOHN SHIPTON:
More police this time, huh?
01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:32.880
It's fascism!
Get that into your heads!
01:19:32.880 --> 01:19:34.120
I am giving you a warning.
01:19:34.120 --> 01:19:36.120
Are you going
to give my property back?
01:19:36.120 --> 01:19:37.920
(SHOUTS) I have been
01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:42.240
a loud voice
for Julian Assange!
01:19:42.240 --> 01:19:47.160
We could have been there,
but this...
01:19:47.160 --> 01:19:51.160
...is a really strong
opportunity
01:19:51.160 --> 01:19:53.480
to put Julian's case before...
01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:57.040
...people in the United States
01:19:57.040 --> 01:19:59.960
that are responsible
for these decisions.
01:19:59.960 --> 01:20:05.080
(SHOUTING)
- Free Julian Assange!
01:20:05.080 --> 01:20:07.400
Julian's just
entered the courtroom.
01:20:07.400 --> 01:20:08.920
Ah.
01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:11.320
- Is that Twitter?
- Yeah.
01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.680
MAN: Free Julian Assange!
01:20:19.240 --> 01:20:22.480
PROTESTERS:
Free Julian Assange!
01:20:22.480 --> 01:20:25.400
Free Julian Assange!
01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:33.360
Judge enters.
Judge giving her na...his name.
01:20:33.360 --> 01:20:37.960
PROTESTERS: Free Julian
Assange! Free Julian Assange!
01:20:37.960 --> 01:20:39.800
Judge says that she found
01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:41.800
that notwithstanding
his support from family,
01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:45.040
Mr Assange has remained
either severely or moderately
01:20:45.040 --> 01:20:47.320
clinically depressed
during detention
01:20:47.320 --> 01:20:50.680
and that he is at risk
of suicide or self-harm.
01:20:50.680 --> 01:20:52.680
He has the intelligence
and determination
01:20:52.680 --> 01:20:55.480
to circumvent
suicide protocols.
01:20:55.480 --> 01:20:57.760
No extradition.
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.120
- No extradition?
- That's what Mary's saying.
01:21:00.120 --> 01:21:03.560
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:11.720
Yeah! Free Assange!
01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:14.640
- Free Assange!
(CHEERING)
01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:16.680
(LAUGHS)
- PROTESTERS: Free Julian Assange!
01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:19.040
Free Julian Assange!
01:21:19.040 --> 01:21:21.160
Yeah, good work,
all those people.
01:21:21.160 --> 01:21:22.160
PROTESTERS: Free!
01:21:22.160 --> 01:21:25.440
Free, free, free Assange!
Free, free...
01:21:25.440 --> 01:21:26.960
Developing news -
this is coming out of the UK
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:28.360
just in the past few minutes.
01:21:28.360 --> 01:21:31.800
A court has denied a request
from the United States...
01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:33.920
A very significant
decision made
01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:38.160
to refuse this extradition
of Julian Assange.
01:21:38.160 --> 01:21:40.000
Well, the judge ruled
against extradition
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:43.600
because she said she was concerned
about Assange's mental health.
01:21:43.600 --> 01:21:44.920
REPORTER: She said,
and to quote her words,
01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:47.520
"I'm satisfied that the procedures
described by the US will not
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:51.440
"prevent Mr Assange from finding
a way to commit suicide."
01:21:51.440 --> 01:21:55.240
- PROTESTERS: Free Assange now!
- They're coming out now.
01:21:55.240 --> 01:21:59.720
Keep to the side.
Keep it to that side.
01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:01.280
Let's have some room, guys.
Come on.
01:22:01.280 --> 01:22:02.920
Keep moving back, please.
01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:05.840
Move back. Keep moving back.
Keep moving back.
01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:11.120
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
01:22:15.480 --> 01:22:16.920
STELLA MORIS:
Please bear with me,
01:22:16.920 --> 01:22:19.400
because I've had to
rewrite my speech.
01:22:19.400 --> 01:22:21.560
(LAUGHS) Oh, dear. Oh, dear.
01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.560
I had hoped that today
01:22:23.560 --> 01:22:26.760
would be the day that
Julian would come home.
01:22:28.040 --> 01:22:30.400
Today is not that day.
01:22:30.400 --> 01:22:32.040
But that day will come soon.
01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:33.640
WOMAN: Yeah.
01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:36.160
We are extremely concerned
01:22:36.160 --> 01:22:37.840
that the US government
01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:40.200
has decided
to appeal this decision.
01:22:41.200 --> 01:22:44.080
It continues
to want to punish Julian.
01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:49.280
We will never accept
that journalism is a crime,
01:22:49.280 --> 01:22:51.920
in this country or any other.
01:22:53.360 --> 01:22:59.440
I ask you all to shout louder,
lobby harder until he is free.
01:22:59.440 --> 01:23:01.480
Free Julian.
01:23:01.480 --> 01:23:03.240
Free the press.
01:23:03.240 --> 01:23:05.320
- Free us all.
(SHOUTING)
01:23:05.320 --> 01:23:07.360
CROWD: Free Julian Assange!
01:23:07.360 --> 01:23:09.760
Free, free! Now!
01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:12.240
Free Julian Assange! Now!
01:23:12.240 --> 01:23:14.600
Free Julian Assange!
Now!
01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:16.680
Free Julian Assange! Now!
01:23:16.680 --> 01:23:19.120
Free Julian Assange!
Now!
01:23:19.120 --> 01:23:21.200
Free Julian Assange! Now!
01:23:21.200 --> 01:23:23.480
Free Julian Assange!
Now!
01:23:23.480 --> 01:23:25.640
Free Julian Assange! Now!
01:23:25.640 --> 01:23:27.680
Free Julian Assange!
Now!
01:23:27.680 --> 01:23:31.680
Free Julian Assange! Now!
(CHEERING)
01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:34.800
(SHOUTING)
01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:37.360
(CHANTING CONTINUES
INDISTINCTLY)
01:23:41.520 --> 01:23:43.920
Oh, Dad, do you... How do
you feel, not being there?
01:23:43.920 --> 01:23:45.080
Huh?
01:23:45.080 --> 01:23:46.520
How do you feel,
not being there?
01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:49.600
Oh, OK. OK. I...I...
01:23:49.600 --> 01:23:52.600
I like to...to, um...
01:23:52.600 --> 01:23:55.760
...build the house
and see other people move in.
01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:59.520
It's my nature.
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.640
PROTESTERS: Free Assange now!
Free Assange now!
01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:05.880
FIDEL NARVAEZ: Every journalist
should be concerned
01:24:05.880 --> 01:24:10.320
about what was said
today in court.
01:24:10.320 --> 01:24:12.320
Because...
01:24:12.320 --> 01:24:16.720
...the political arguments
provided by the United States
01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:21.440
were upheld
by the British judicial system.
01:24:21.440 --> 01:24:27.520
I repeat, it's only
the doctor's assessment
01:24:27.520 --> 01:24:32.080
of the fragile health condition
of Julian Assange
01:24:32.080 --> 01:24:35.920
that have saved him
from extradition.
01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:38.720
So, what does this case mean
for media freedoms,
01:24:38.720 --> 01:24:41.920
and especially
in light of today's judgement?
01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.360
ANDREW FOWLER:
Well, it looks as though
01:24:44.360 --> 01:24:46.280
what journalists do
for a living
01:24:46.280 --> 01:24:50.240
is seen by the British courts
to be a criminal act.
01:24:50.240 --> 01:24:52.840
In a sense,
the system has succeeded
01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:54.840
in intimidating the world
01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:56.720
and in passing
the message that,
01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:58.800
"This is
what's going to happen to you
01:24:58.800 --> 01:25:04.200
"if ever you have the idea of
publishing our dirty secrets."
01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:06.920
We're wrong to think
01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:09.800
that it's about
who wins the extradition case.
01:25:11.880 --> 01:25:14.560
As long as
Julian Assange is silenced,
01:25:14.560 --> 01:25:16.960
in solitary confinement,
01:25:16.960 --> 01:25:19.560
this proceeding
can last as long as it wants.
01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:24.480
The US has won.
01:25:24.480 --> 01:25:27.880
I can guarantee you
that already today,
01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:32.640
people who might otherwise
leak secret information
01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:34.280
are now
very careful about this,
01:25:34.280 --> 01:25:36.920
because they can see with their
own eyes what's going to happen.
01:25:38.920 --> 01:25:41.280
And that's...
THAT'S the dangerous thing.
01:25:41.280 --> 01:25:44.800
We have to
control our government.
01:25:44.800 --> 01:25:46.880
That's what democracy is about.
01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:49.680
How can you be
controlling your government
01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:52.080
if you don't know the truth?
01:26:04.120 --> 01:26:05.840
(VACUUM CLEANER WHIRRS)
01:26:09.920 --> 01:26:11.600
Can I show you around?
01:26:12.600 --> 01:26:14.760
I guess as long as
there's no...
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:16.600
...no-one in the frame, right?
01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:22.520
Your books.
01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:23.720
Oh, tent?
01:26:27.200 --> 01:26:28.840
Yep.
01:26:28.840 --> 01:26:30.200
Your books are here,
01:26:30.200 --> 01:26:32.400
and your awards, a few of them.
01:26:34.360 --> 01:26:36.640
And a Australia map.
01:26:39.160 --> 01:26:40.800
REPORTER: Now, good
morning to you, Stella,
01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:43.000
and it is a very good morning
for you.
01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:45.440
You're his fiancee,
but you're also his lawyer.
01:26:45.440 --> 01:26:46.600
What was going through
your mind
01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:48.000
when that verdict was given?
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:53.200
Um...well, I...I had prepared
myself for the worst, and...
01:26:53.200 --> 01:26:55.200
..but once I realised
that Julian has...had won,
01:26:55.200 --> 01:26:58.200
I...I wept with relief,
01:26:58.200 --> 01:27:00.480
and it was
a very emotional moment.
01:27:00.480 --> 01:27:04.840
Um, so I'm...I'm hopeful
that what follows from that
01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:07.320
is that he'll be released today
from Belmarsh,
01:27:07.320 --> 01:27:09.240
because the conditions
in Belmarsh
01:27:09.240 --> 01:27:11.080
are absolutely atrocious.
01:27:21.400 --> 01:27:23.720
(INDISTINCT CLAMOURING)
01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:28.480
This is a huge disappointment.
01:27:28.480 --> 01:27:30.320
Julian should not be
in Belmarsh Prison
01:27:30.320 --> 01:27:32.440
in the first place.
01:27:32.440 --> 01:27:36.480
I urge the Department of
Justice to drop the charges
01:27:36.480 --> 01:27:39.000
and the President of
the United States
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:40.800
to pardon Julian.
01:27:55.120 --> 01:27:56.320
OK.
01:27:57.760 --> 01:27:58.960
OK.
01:28:00.360 --> 01:28:02.240
I'm just so tired.
01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:10.560
Yeah.
01:28:12.200 --> 01:28:13.240
Oh, God.
01:28:13.240 --> 01:28:16.400
Trump supporters have stormed
the US Capitol Building.
01:28:17.480 --> 01:28:19.560
REPORTER: The peaceful
transfer of power,
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:21.920
the cornerstone
of American democracy,
01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:24.360
seemed a highly abstract
concept today...
01:28:24.360 --> 01:28:25.840
(SHOUTING)
01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:28.600
...as Trump supporters
clashed with police
01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:32.040
as they tried, and succeeded,
to storm the Congress,
01:28:32.040 --> 01:28:34.000
where America's elected leaders
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:37.400
had gathered to certify the
election victory of Joe Biden.
01:28:38.400 --> 01:28:40.640
Leading Republicans
have distanced themselves
01:28:40.640 --> 01:28:41.880
from the President,
01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:43.600
who has not condemned
the rioters,
01:28:43.600 --> 01:28:45.360
and now there are growing calls
01:28:45.360 --> 01:28:47.880
for President Trump
to be removed from office,
01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:51.280
with just 13 days to go
before the end of his term.
01:28:51.280 --> 01:28:53.400
Donald Trump
will reportedly issue
01:28:53.400 --> 01:28:55.520
around 100 pardons
and commutations
01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:57.960
on his final days in office.
01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:00.280
Free press advocates
are calling on the President
01:29:00.280 --> 01:29:03.360
to pardon WikiLeaks founder
and Australian citizen
01:29:03.360 --> 01:29:04.880
Julian Assange.
01:29:25.760 --> 01:29:27.000
OK.
01:29:28.760 --> 01:29:30.240
Yep.
01:29:30.240 --> 01:29:32.320
- Hi.
- JOHN SHIPTON: Hi.
01:29:32.320 --> 01:29:34.880
STELLA MORIS: Um, Trump
might get...
01:29:36.360 --> 01:29:39.680
...uh, removed before the 20th.
01:29:39.680 --> 01:29:43.400
Yeah, I think on balance,
it's a good idea to...
01:29:43.400 --> 01:29:48.440
...to...to hire this,
or appoint this, lobbyist.
01:29:50.200 --> 01:29:53.680
Oh. Well, uh, um,
if you say so.
01:29:53.680 --> 01:29:58.080
But I don't know. I...I can't
see what's in it for Mr Trump.
01:29:58.080 --> 01:30:01.680
People say that it'd be great
to get up Hillary's nose
01:30:01.680 --> 01:30:03.160
on the way out.
01:30:03.160 --> 01:30:05.480
Well, that's not
much of a motivation
01:30:05.480 --> 01:30:07.880
for a...a...a president,
01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:10.080
you know, to...to, uh...
01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:11.760
No, it's not about that.
01:30:11.760 --> 01:30:14.480
It's about his base
wanting the pardon.
01:30:14.480 --> 01:30:15.640
JOHN SHIPTON: Well...
01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:18.880
The...the base that he needs to
be able to go for...
01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:21.720
...run for president
in four years' time.
01:30:21.720 --> 01:30:25.520
Well, that's not
an argument for him doing it.
01:30:25.520 --> 01:30:28.160
That's a description
of the situation.
01:30:28.160 --> 01:30:29.440
STELLA MORIS:
Yes. I hadn't finished.
01:30:29.440 --> 01:30:31.240
- I hadn't finished.
- Oh, sorry.
01:30:31.240 --> 01:30:33.640
- Yes?
- STELLA MORIS: Um...
01:30:33.640 --> 01:30:35.960
He says he can put something
in front of Trump,
01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:38.480
you know, within 24 hours,
so if that's true...
01:30:38.480 --> 01:30:40.480
What's he going to...
I mean, what's he going to say?
01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:44.280
STELLA MORIS: And I'm not sure
we have anyone who CAN do that.
01:30:44.280 --> 01:30:46.360
JOHN SHIPTON: You don't
need to look desperate.
01:30:46.360 --> 01:30:48.040
It's not desperate.
01:30:48.040 --> 01:30:51.320
Everyone does it.
Everyone does it.
01:30:51.320 --> 01:30:53.440
JOHN SHIPTON: Anyway, uh...
01:30:53.440 --> 01:30:56.240
It...it doesn't smell good.
01:31:29.840 --> 01:31:31.080
Hi, Julian.
01:31:31.080 --> 01:31:32.280
Yep.
01:31:32.280 --> 01:31:34.080
Um, he's...he's
a little bit spooked,
01:31:34.080 --> 01:31:35.800
because they've threatened him.
01:31:35.800 --> 01:31:37.800
They're threatening his family.
01:31:37.800 --> 01:31:39.400
Um...
01:31:39.400 --> 01:31:41.440
He says he's
been called a traitor,
01:31:41.440 --> 01:31:43.840
that he should
lea...leave America,
01:31:43.840 --> 01:31:46.440
he's betraying his country...
01:31:46.440 --> 01:31:47.720
...um...
01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:53.200
...that the National Security
apparatus
01:31:53.200 --> 01:31:55.200
is pushing back very strongly,
01:31:55.200 --> 01:31:59.920
and while he was optimistic
24 hours ago or so,
01:31:59.920 --> 01:32:03.640
there are very powerful forces
that want to...
01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:05.720
...stop it from happening.
01:32:05.720 --> 01:32:09.240
And then I said,
"Well, my view is that
01:32:09.240 --> 01:32:11.000
"the legal case
is just a pretext.
01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:13.480
"They're just finding
any way they can
01:32:13.480 --> 01:32:16.760
"to keep Julian in prison for
the longest amount of time."
01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:20.560
And he said,
"I would go further than that,
01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:24.240
"and I'm afraid to say that...
that people want him dead."
01:32:33.120 --> 01:32:34.800
MAN: Mr President!
01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:38.200
You won this election
fair and square!
01:32:49.360 --> 01:32:51.200
STELLA MORIS:
So how are things there?
01:33:14.960 --> 01:33:16.440
Mmm.
01:33:36.840 --> 01:33:38.080
Mmm.
01:33:39.440 --> 01:33:40.720
JULIAN ASSANGE: Yeah.
01:33:58.240 --> 01:33:59.720
(SIGHS)
01:34:08.640 --> 01:34:12.320
JOE BIDEN: My distinguished
guests, my fellow Americans,
01:34:12.320 --> 01:34:16.200
this is America's day.
01:34:16.200 --> 01:34:19.000
This is democracy's day.
01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:23.400
A day of history and hope,
of renewal and resolve.
01:34:23.400 --> 01:34:26.440
What are the common objects
we as Americans love,
01:34:26.440 --> 01:34:29.040
that define us as Americans?
01:34:29.040 --> 01:34:30.640
I think we know.
01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:32.400
Opportunity.
01:34:32.400 --> 01:34:34.000
Security.
01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:37.880
Liberty.
Dignity, respect, honour.
01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:40.440
And, yes, the truth.
01:34:40.440 --> 01:34:42.680
(APPLAUSE)
01:34:42.680 --> 01:34:44.440
Recent weeks and months
01:34:44.440 --> 01:34:46.920
have taught us
a painful lesson.
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:50.240
There is truth
and there are lies.
01:34:50.240 --> 01:34:54.440
Lies told for power
and for profit.
01:34:54.440 --> 01:34:57.680
And each of us has a duty
AND a responsibility,
01:34:57.680 --> 01:35:02.360
as citizens, as Americans,
and especially as leaders,
01:35:02.360 --> 01:35:05.760
to defend the truth
and defeat the lies.
01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:30.120
JOHN SHIPTON: Truth is,
uh, very vexatious, yeah.
01:35:30.120 --> 01:35:31.680
I mean...
01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:34.720
You know, you see people
writing all the time
01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:36.440
"The truth will set you free."
01:35:36.440 --> 01:35:38.240
Well, that's probably correct.
01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:42.920
But the truth may be
01:35:42.920 --> 01:35:45.440
that human beings
are collective animals
01:35:45.440 --> 01:35:48.960
and always will act
in a collective group to a...
01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:53.000
And that collective group
will be guarded and guided
01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:54.880
by an ideology,
01:35:54.880 --> 01:35:58.080
so your uttering an actuality
01:35:58.080 --> 01:36:04.720
and your favoured insight
into things as a truth is...
01:36:04.720 --> 01:36:07.480
...can be awfully misleading,
you know?
01:36:09.320 --> 01:36:11.840
I suppose that's
our only thing, you know,
01:36:11.840 --> 01:36:16.560
I really would like
to reveal to you.
01:36:16.560 --> 01:36:20.200
I don't mind the truth, yeah.
01:36:20.200 --> 01:36:22.000
The truth is, it can on...
01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:25.720
things can only get worse
for Julian.
01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:27.760
It cannot get better.
01:36:27.760 --> 01:36:31.720
That time has gone.
It's all gone away.
01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:34.200
He's 49.
01:36:34.200 --> 01:36:36.600
It's all gone.
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:38.400
And the same for me.
01:36:38.400 --> 01:36:40.360
It's all...it's used up,
01:36:40.360 --> 01:36:42.360
'cause...well,
me more so than him,
01:36:42.360 --> 01:36:45.720
but his situation
is parlous, parlous,
01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:49.040
because it might
take his sanity as well.
01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:53.840
That's the destiny.
01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:55.920
And that's the hard bit that
01:36:55.920 --> 01:36:58.160
you guys won't face
in your filming,
01:36:58.160 --> 01:37:00.720
because it's not popular.
01:37:00.720 --> 01:37:02.040
Yeah.
01:37:02.040 --> 01:37:04.880
INTERVIEWER: You must believe
things are going to get better.
01:37:04.880 --> 01:37:07.520
I know they can't.
01:37:07.520 --> 01:37:10.080
I'm 76. What the fuck?
01:37:10.080 --> 01:37:11.680
I've got a 5-year-old daughter.
01:37:11.680 --> 01:37:12.800
INTERVIEWER: Mmm.
01:37:12.800 --> 01:37:16.120
I'm here and she's there.
How can that get better?
01:37:17.360 --> 01:37:19.440
Is there any...
01:37:19.440 --> 01:37:22.960
...way that
I can reclaim the year,
01:37:22.960 --> 01:37:25.160
and go and spend it
with my daughter,
01:37:25.160 --> 01:37:27.920
who'll never have
that year again?
01:37:27.920 --> 01:37:30.800
So it can only get worse.
01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:32.160
INTERVIEWER: I don't know.
01:37:32.160 --> 01:37:33.800
I don't think you'd be doing it
unless you thought
Distributor: Bullfrog Films
Length: 106 minutes
Date: 2022
Genre: Expository
Language: English
Grade: 10-12, College, Adults
Color/BW:
Closed Captioning: Available
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