The story of conscientious objectors in World War II.
Soldiers of Conscience
- Description
- Reviews
- Citation
- Cataloging
- Transcript
From West Point grads to drill sergeants, from Abu Ghraib interrogators to low ranking reservist-mechanics, soldiers in the U.S. Army today reveal their deepest moral concerns about killing in war. Their message: every soldier wrestles with his conscience over killing. Although most decide to kill, some refuse.
SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE reveals that far more soldiers decide not to kill than we might expect. Made with official permission from the U.S. Army and filmed in high definition video, SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE includes never-before-seen footage of basic training and the war in Iraq, with an original soundtrack from an Academy Award winner and composer. It is a realistic yet optimistic look at war, peace, and the power of the human conscience.
WARNING: This film shows images from war.
'Soldiers of Conscience and Secrecy offer critical, historically aware discourses on the ethical quandaries raised by contemporary conflict...The films lend considerable credence to their arguments...While both are unquestionably products of a previous era of presidential politics, they refrain from giving the problems they identify the too easily adopted epithet `Bush.' In doing so, they highlight the fact that contemporary manifestations of American power are no neoconservative aberration. Indeed, it seems certain that in the context of a re-branded but effectively unchanged `war in terror,' questions of soldierly conscience and state secrecy will remain pertinent well into the future.' Nicholas Witham, University of Nottingham, Journal of American Studies
'SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE thoughtfully explores the moral dilemmas encountered by U.S. Army soldiers who served in the current Iraq War. Skillfully interspersing scenes of the war as experienced by U.S. soldiers and the Iraqi people with the compelling testimonies of soldiers who became conscientious objectors, and other soldiers who opposed that choice, the film challenges viewers to search their own consciences. SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE deserves a wide audience. It should stimulate excellent classroom discussions.' Dr. Michael Burton, Professor, Department of Sociology, Loyola College in Maryland
'The award winning documentary, SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE takes on the core human contradiction to never kill against the duty to kill as a combat soldier who has volunteered for service. Approved by the U.S. Army, this documentary provides rare footage of how the military turns civilians into killers through reflexive fire training while giving voice to combat soldiers who reconnect with their humanity by claiming conscientious objection when serving in Iraq. The powerful narratives of four soldiers who have faced the hell of war and turned against it, Camilo Mejia, Joshua Casteel, Aidan Delgado and Kevin Benderman, tear viewers away from feeling absolved of a war being fought by volunteers to confront why we are not standing with them to end it. It is a testament to the filmmakers that one of the most significant anti-war documentaries of the post-9/11 era has the approval of the U.S. Army.' Michael Musheno, Professor of Criminal Justice Studies, San Francisco State University, Distinguished Affiliated Scholar, Center for the Study of Law and Society, University of California at Berkeley, Co-author, Deployed: How Reservists Bear the Burden of Iraq
'A captivating look inside the U.S. Army...Soldiers of Conscience offers up important data and commentary on U.S. military society. The film thus provides a valuable entree into what Catherine Lutz has called 'ethnographies of empire,' anthropological research concentrating on the people living in and around U.S. military bases and designed to reveal the human face and vulnerabilities of American imperialism.' Rebecca Forgash, Metropolitan State College of Denver, Anthropology Review Database
'Gary Weimberg and his team have assembled and filmed an admirable selection of real SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE who have engaged in close combat. Some of them have become Conscientious Objectors within the terms of military regulations. Others are called by their sense of duty to return to the danger, horror and exhilaration of battle. Never have I seen both perspectives presented so clearly and movingly, side by side.' COL (Ret) Jim Stokes, MD, Army psychiatrist and developer of the Combat Stress Control doctrine
'The core moral teachings of Christianity have long been known - and almost as long ignored. SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE startles us - Christians and others alike - out of our moral slumbers by showing us brave men who dared to think for themselves about the morality of war. Their courage in facing genuine moral problems will give rise to continued ethical and moral reflection on the pressing issue of our time. Highly recommended.' Rev. Dr. Derek R. Nelson, Assistant Professor of Religion, Thiel College
'A uniquely powerful film in exploring conscientious decision-making about war both from the perspective of soldiers dedicated to fighting and those who have refused.' Rev. William 'Scotty' McLennan, Unitarian Universalist Minister, Dean for Religious Life, Stanford University
'SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE is to our generation what Paths of Glory , Full Metal Jacket, and Platoon was to theirs. It packs a dramatic punch while challenging the conscience of America.' Professor Arthur Blaustein, University of California - Berkeley, Author, The American Promise
'I showed a brief excerpt from the film in a recent treatment group session with OIF/OEF combat veterans at the SFVAMC. The content was carefully selected to exclude graphic or startling images that could be triggering for veterans who have served in a war zone. The clip generated an excellent group discussion about killing, guilt, and shame among the veterans in the room and helped them to reach a deep level of sharing and reflection about their personal experiences. The clip and resulting group discussion also helped veterans to better understand that they were not alone.' Shira Maguen, Ph.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, UCSF Medical School, Staff Psychologist, San Francisco VA Medical Center
'A great movie in terms of impact, quality of production, [and] usefulness in theological education.' Deryck Durston, Associate Director, Association for Clinical Pastoral Education
'You have produced a wonderful learning tool. Thank you. It is such a relief to know there are people who continue to bring multiple perspectives to bare on such complex and important issues.' Shan Oglesby, Social Studies Teacher, Kamiak High School
'The film was powerful and thought-provoking. As an educator, I especially appreciated the straight talk from all the people filmed. I imagine using the film as a way to proceed into a discussion of the morality of killing [and] nonviolence.' Monica Fisk, Masters of Education Candidate, Antioch University
'A balanced and mature acknowledgement that some people will follow the dictates of their own consciences over the commands of a temporary 'superior.' Recommended.' Video Librarian
'I found myself humbled and moved by the film...A candid, eloquent and truly provocative discussion amongst soldiers from all sides of the story...Transcends the noisy bluster of political rhetoric and gives a clear, uncensored voice to the young men and women who are charged with protecting our nation.' Matt Glaser, The Zong
'Has an eloquence and passion that will open hearts as well as eyes.' Paula Nechak, The Seattle Post-Intelligencer
'A thoughtful, challenging, and remarkably wide-ranging examination of the nature of war and its alternatives.' John Hartl, The Seattle Times
'Brutal and completely captivating, SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE is a fine example of modern documentary filmmaking done right. Both sides of the issue are given time and attention, and no clear-cut judgments are made by the filmmakers. Though it undoubtedly takes a more anti-war stance during many segments, we're treated to an even-handed meditation on the cold reality of modern warfare and the people it directly affects...Firmly Recommended.' DVDtalk.com
'Wonderful...deeply personal...reminds us that the burdens soldiers and Marines carry in the desert heat are far more complex and long lasting than we can possibly know.' Bob Kerr, The Providence Journal
'Thought-provoking...An unbiased look at soldiers who sincerely believe that the killing of war is at times morally justifiable, juxtaposed with those whose consciences have forced them to set down their weapons and answer to a higher calling.' Andrew Gorby, Center on Conscience and War
'The movie takes its own calm, even-handed approach...Directors Gary Weimberg and Catherine Ryan don't pull any punches...A film that stirs things up.' Robert Horton, The Everett Herald
'Never presumes to tell you what to think. It simply makes it impossible for you not to.' John Brummett, The Morning News
'Tears at the heart.' Beth Ashley, Marin Independent Journal
'Thoughtful.' Jan Stuart, Newsday
'Thoughtful...Fascinating...Tight and balanced storytelling.' Moira Macdonald, The Seattle Times
'Gripping and real...Through the eyes of soldiers.' Bryan Fung, Northwest Asian Weekly
'This chilling documentary explores how we condition our children to bypass their morals.' Lindy West, The Stranger
'Doesn't just preach to the choir...It has the virtue of including voices from across the ideological spectrum.' Frank Paiva, Seattle Weekly
'Illuminating...[one of] my five movies to look for during the Atlanta Film Festival.' Felicia Feaster, Creative Loafing
'Must-see.' Bob Longino, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
'Speaks volumes about the psychological toll taking another life enacts.' Charles Judson, CinemaATL Magazine
'The film's focus makes Soldiers of Conscience accessible to pacifists and warriors alike. The soldiers' candid and deeply personal reflections remind us that in war human beings make choices they must live with the rest of their lives...The candor of these soldiers evokes questions that haunt us. What are we asking of those ordered to kill on our behalf?' National Catholic Reporter
'Soldiers of Conscience is a compelling indictment of the successful campaign by the U.S. military to defeat our universal human instinct not to kill. Using intimate footage of basic training and mind-numbing images of the continuing Iraq War, the film puts into horrifying perspective how the Pentagon teaches recruits to obey orders and kill without consulting conscience. These revelations are tempered by interviews with soldiers who say no to such demands and exit military service, but as the film ends a lingering and unsettling question remains: Why do those opposed to war number so few?' Peter Laufer, Journalist, Author, Mission Rejected: U.S. Soldiers Who Say No to Iraq
'Soldiers of Conscience doesn't berate one view and glorify the other, but instead looks honestly at the moral conscience at play in each, allowing the soldiers' experiences to paint the complex pictures. This film asks us to try something new by thinking something new -- by listening to voices that have walked a difficult road.' Kaitlin Barker, Sojourners
'The film is a thought-provoking look at the central purpose of war that invites viewers to reflect not only on their own perspective but also on the other side of the coin.' Chuck Vinch, Army Times
'Weimberg and Ryan have created one of the rare breed of documentaries that have a point of view, but don't try to manipulate viewers into sharing it.' Martin Stillion, Christianity Today
'It's a modest, unpretentious film, and more affecting for it. Conveying not just the grimly harrowing circumstances of modern combat but also a real sense of the bright, mature, and morally serious minds that terrible crucible has forged.' San Francisco Magazine
'This thoughtful and disquieting film...explores the fundamental contradiction between the killing required by war and the remorse required by humanity.' Glenn Garvin, The Miami Herald
'Although most Americans would prefer not to think about Iraq, Soldiers of Conscience is required viewing for anyone living with this war...Serving in the military is an honorable profession, and Soldiers of Conscience explores the difficult area where honor, duty, morality and choice intersect and then collide.' Wyatt Montaner, BeyondChron.org
'This film is an important new tool in efforts to promote peace and understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims and Arabs and non-Arabs in the United States and abroad.' Fatema Haji-Taki, Islamic Insights.com
'Soldiers of Conscience explores the moral dilemmas of eight U.S. soldiers who struggle daily with the question of whether killing is ever justified.' The Washington Post
'A thoughtful look at war and its aftermath.' Kevin McDonough, United Feature Syndicate
'A thoughtful documentary on fighting men who have second thoughts about killing.' Roger Catlin, The Hartford Courant
'[Soldiers of Conscience] lets a handful of soldiers do just about all of the talking, and their personal accounts respective to their diverse backgrounds and beliefs put some powerful faces to the otherwise familiar talking points.' Billy O'Keefe, San Luis Obispo
'Soldiers of Conscience doesn't take sides, it is not an anti-war or a pro-war film; instead, it truly surveys and attempts to understand the complexities of a moral conundrum...The film, possibly unintentionally, engenders a newfound respect for the soldiers that experience hell daily on the front lines, while simultaneously questioning the fundamental idea of war.' Jessica Mosby, The Women's International Perspective
'EXCELLENT...a MUST SEE for all conscientious people.' Catholic Peace Fellowship
'Soldiers of Conscience is a film that will challenge your beliefs. I'm still confident in mine, but I know other military folks who were disturbed by the questions the film raised in their own consciences...If you get the opportunity to see the film, I recommend it. It is unbiased (rare for the genre) and very interesting.' MAJ Peter Kilner, USMA West Point, soldier-ethicist.blogspot.com
'Brought me to tears or near tears and I believe that it really hits the emotional nerve that it was intended to hit. Its relevancy in the current context of war is enormous.' Oskar Castro, National Youth and Militarism Program, American Friends Service Committee
'Soldiers of Conscience is a must see film for all those concerned about issues of conscience in times of war...In training for combat, young men and women are conditioned to set aside much of their moral upbringing and take on a different moral code...When I was a chaplain in a Basic Training unit, I always went to the field training site when this training was being conducted. I never had a time when I did not have someone wanting to talk to me about what they were experiencing. It was cathartic for them to be able to express these very real and usually troubling feelings to someone who would treat them with non-judgmental warmth and hold their conscience in empathetic regard. I did not justify the training or try to talk them out of what they were feeling. It was important for them to honor their training and their conscience. One of my ethics professors used to say, 'If you sin against your conscience, you commit moral suicide.' I was determined to protect the conscience of these soldiers...The film Soldiers of Conscience rightly stays with the moral dilemmas of conscience present in the modern military.' Chaplain (Colonel) Herman Keizer, Jr., U.S. Army (Retired)
'Soldiers of Conscience poignantly examines the array of choices and challenges that thoughtful human beings face when they find themselves in a conflict that their hearts and minds cannot justify. Anyone who wrestles with choices between evils should see Soldiers of Conscience.' The Right Rev. Marc Handley Andrus, Bishop, Episcopal Diocese of California
'Soldiers of Conscience moved me in a way that few other films have. It is ideal for churches and faith-based organizations that are interested in presenting the difficult realities of war fairly, but with a clear commitment to examining the moral problems of war.' Rick Ufford-Chase, Convener, Christian Peace Witness for Iraq, Executive Director, Presbyterian Peace Fellowship
'I've sat with total pacifists and combat veterans both, who've each thought the film had significant themes to contribute to conversation about what is often a very difficult subject, for both soldiers and civilians.' The Rev. Canon Debra Shew, Canon for Community Ministries, Episcopal Diocese of Atlanta
'This powerful film helps those of us who are removed from the immediacy of the Iraq war to understand the realities that our soldiers face and the questions of conscience that they struggle with. It raises questions for all of us to ponder.' Rev. Carol Jensen, Pastor, St. John United Lutheran Church, Chair, Lutheran Public Policy Office of Washington State, Chair, Lutheran Peace Fellowship
'By showing the real pain of war, I think this film will help our congregation to be more balanced and grounded in our peace activism. It's important to really understand the pain and suffering. There are very few active service men and women in our congregation, and Soldiers of Conscience invites us into profound conversation with soldiers and their struggles. This film breaks down barriers.' Rev. Joan Montagnes, Associate Minister, East Shore Unitarian Church
'This film raises complex questions about war, hiding nothing. It allows us glimpses of the humanity of those who serve in the military and those who train them. It offers a compelling, stunning, and disquieting examination of the moral dilemmas soldiers confront when they make a choice to kill and when they choose nonviolence.' Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock, Founder, Faith Voices for the Common Good
'We strongly encourage our members to use this documentary as a tool to educate their congregations, communities, families and friends. The film raises important questions for the American people, in whose name soldiers are fighting, dying and killing.' Wayne Smith, Manager, Civil Liberties Program, Unitarian Universalist Service Committee
'This film really resonates with viewers - and not just with peace activists. The veterans who've seen it have really enjoyed it. We've had some wonderful post-screening discussions.' Anne Miller, Director, New Hampshire PeaceAction
'Soldiers of Conscience is an urgent, deeply moving reflection on the tension between our duty as citizens and our responsibilities as ethical beings. The stories of these soldiers offer no easy answers; on the contrary, they make us feel the profound difficulty of war's challenge to conscience, and the courage required to face it honestly.' Tobias Wolff, Vietnam Veteran and Author, In Pharaoh's Army
'I thank all those people involved in the making of this poignant and relevant look into what it is to be an American soldier. May you and our soldiers find some peace in knowing that a new understanding is growing and with that understanding will come a new sense of responsibility to what we do and what we do not.' Benjamin J. Tatrow, Sergeant, US Army Military Police Corps (Retired)
'I have personally wrestled with the decisions discussed in Soldiers of Conscience - as a Christian, as a former Infantry officer and now as an Army chaplain. My discussions with veterans of all wars reveal to me that most (if not all) soldiers will wrestle with this issue; my desire is that they settle the issue in their minds before - rather than after - the battle.' Chaplain (Captain) Brian G. Koyn, US Military Academy at West Point
'I found Soldiers of Conscience powerful and haunting. Haunting, because I was a pilot in Vietnam who in the midst of war made the lonely journey that ended with my deciding that what I was being asked to do was immoral. Powerful, because the soldiers who become conscientious objectors in this film begin to see through the moral fog of war with a clarity that stands in stark contrast to those who soldier on.' Charlie Clements, Vietnam Veteran and President, CEO, Unitarian Universalist Service Committee
'[The film] was powerful, effective and informative - useful for discussion and exploration of these issues and brings the effects of war into reality, into the heart and soul of the people rather than a distant story that seems so unreal in the mind of the average American. Thank you for your commitment, efforts, and passion about this war and those who serve and pay the ultimate sacrifice. We must always remember and honor our warriors. I believe this film does just that.' Rev. Susan G. Turley, Chaplain and CPE Supervisor, Palo Alto VA
'Soldiers of Conscience provides not only a needed conversation, but also a wealth of information and ideas to consider. The DVD extras include excerpts for further conversation. The way in which these clips are listed and labeled make them helpful as conversations starters in the classroom, the boardroom, or basic training.' Sarah Hentges, PopMatters
Citation
Main credits
Weimberg, Gary (film producer)
Weimberg, Gary (film director)
Ryan, Catherine Marie (film producer)
Ryan, Catherine Marie (film director)
Coyote, Peter (narrator)
Other credits
Director of photography, Kevin O'Brien; edited by Gary Weimberg and Josh Peterson; original score, Todd Boekelheide.
Distributor subjects
American Studies; Anthropology; Citizenship and Civics; Conflict Resolution; Counseling; Ethics; Global Issues; History; Humanities; International Studies; Iraq; Mental Health; Military; Philosophy; Political Science; Psychology; Religion; Social Psychology; Sociology; Soldiers; War and PeaceKeywords
West Point, Abu Ghraib, interrogators, conscientious objectors, soldier, U.S. army, moral concerns, killing in war, conscience, basic training, Iraq war, high definition, peace, Camilio Mejia, Joshua Casteel, Aidan Delgado, Kevin Benderman; "Soldiers of Conscience"; Bullfrog Films
WEBVTT
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[non-English narration]
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The reason why I’ve joined army. I made
it easy for my recruiter. I said, \"Hey,
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I just want to shoot a machine gun and jump out of a plane.\"
He said, \"Sign right here.\" I was raised on American pie,
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I’m a cradle conservative. I was
voted most likely to succeed,
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:44.999
most conservative. My nickname among
a lot of my friends was G.I. Josh.
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.999
I wanted to defend my country.
00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.999
Uh… I tried to enlist in the marines right out of high school,
got hurt playing football uh… so I joined the national guard
00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.999
and then ended up going to West Point and being
a commissioned officer. Uh… to put it bluntly,
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I’m a patriotic son of a gun. Umm… I love this country. It’s done
some great things for me. I’ve had some great opportunities.
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Both my grandfathers fought in World War I.
My father fought in World War II.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.999
I had an uncle who fought in Korea,
cousins that fought in Vietnam.
00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:20.000
You know, so there’s been a family member in
the military since there’s been a country.
00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:43.000
[music]
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At some point, every soldier
has to face the question,
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\"Will I be able to kill another
human being in combat?\"
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This film is about killing in war
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and about some US soldiers
who have chosen not to.
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:09.999
The evidence is that far more soldiers
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refuse to kill than we might expect.
In World War II,
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:19.999
research by the official U.S. Army Historian,
Brigadier General S.L.A. Marshall,
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revealed that among US soldiers in combat,
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less than 25% actually fired
their weapons at the enemy.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.999
Even with their own lives at risk,
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75% did not try to kill the enemy.
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Marshall wrote, \"The average individual
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still has such an inner resistance
toward killing a fellow man
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that he will not take life if it is possible
to turn away from that responsibility.\"
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\"At the vital point,
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he becomes a conscientious objector.\"
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[sil.]
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What is your duty
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as a soldier, as a human being?
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What are you going to live with?
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You have to ask yourself \"In what
situations would killing be right?\"
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It’s… it’s just not something you can put behind.
It stays with you. You carry it in your heart.
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[music]
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People are shocked by how upsetting it is
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to kill another human being.
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It’s not that soldiers are somehow
different or it’s not hard to kill.
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Soldiers can kill only because
they have been trained to do that.
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What’s the spirit of the bayonet? Kill. Kill. Kill
without mercy. What makes the green grass grow?
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Blood. Blood. Blood makes
the green grass grow.
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There are two types of bayonet fighters,
the quick and the dead. Which are you?
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The quick, Drill Sergeant. Which are you?
The quick, Drill Sergeant.
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Let me hear your war cry.
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[sil.]
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Go, go.
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No, no, no, right here, right here. Top of
the hood. There you go. There’s your target.
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You know when the bullets start flying, it’s not
about God or country or anything like that.
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It’s about the man right next to your
left and your right, and that’s about it.
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[sil.]
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Get that weapon up. Get that weapon up.
Some people though,
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they cope with it differently than I do.
They don’t… they… they don’t talk about
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what they did over there with their wives. And
probably the only time they do is when they get drunk.
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[music]
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I told my wife what I did over there. Of
course, I got drunk too, but it just happens.
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Sometimes, you just have to let it out.
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[music]
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[non-English narration]
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[music]
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Throw your grenade, throw your grenade.
[music] While I was over there…
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me, I shot… I had to go shoot a
ten-year old boy over there.
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[sil.]
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He was throwing grenades at my squad.
If he threw that grenade,
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it would have been maybe five or six, maybe the entire
squad would have been, either killed or wounded
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or just one kid. And that’s something…
that’s something that you know,
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that I made the decision, because I was the person in
charge at that time. And I got no regrets about it.
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But looking back at it, though,
it’s like the demons come back.
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That’s where it haunts you.
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[sil.]
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I’m not saying that, you know,
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we’re all, we are doing the right
thing over there, by far. It’s just…
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people just don’t understand
what it’s like to be over there.
00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:18.000
[sil.]
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You know, we recruit people to serve their
country and to kill. We train them how to kill.
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We as officers develop the
orders for them to kill.
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Uh… We’ll give them awards or pat them on the back
a lot of times or, you know, credit them for being
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effective fighters and killers, but we
never explain to them why it’s okay.
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So that when they do what they’ve been trained
so well to do, they can be at peace with it…
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with their consciences for the rest of their
lives. All right, that’s 650 meters up.
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There is a woman in the way. I’ve got a woman.
Roger, I know, there is a woman in the way. Hold on.
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As soon as he moves pop him.
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[sil.]
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Kill, kill, kill. Kill.
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Has anyone heard of S.L.A.
Marshall, Man Against Fire.
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S.L.A. Marshall was the Army’s first real historian. He was
the head of the history department during World War II.
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One thing he noticed is that in most units,
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only one in four people
tried to kill the enemy.
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He says, most people, at the point of looking down and
time to pull the trigger became conscientious objectors.
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And there’s a lot of… once he reported that, there
was a lot of people coming out and saying, yeah,
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yeah, that was my experience, I just
couldn’t kill. So the Army decided,
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\"Well, that’s not good.\" So the Army said
\"Okay, how do we help them overcome this?\"
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And they said, \"Let’s condition people.
So, the idea is
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reflexive fire training. As soon as that
target pops up, you fire the weapon.
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And just conditioning, conditioning, conditioning.
Target keep coming up, you take them out. Let’s go.
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Keep shooting. Keep shooting.
Let’s go, kill that thing.
00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:19.999
What they want people to do is, they’re so
trained, they just \"boom, boom,\" dead. All right,
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.999
where is the next target? And that’s good.
It becomes muscle memory.
00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:29.999
You don’t think about it, you just do it.
Reflexive fire is the ability to engage targets
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:34.999
like upon reflex and without uh… without
thought. Keep shooting. You raise, and you shoot
00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.999
as fast as you can. Hit them hard, kill
him. When it comes to killing people,
00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:44.999
umm… I can’t say, I don’t mind but I… I would do… I
would do, I have to do to defend my country. Sir.
00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:49.999
If I was in a combat situation,
sir, I would do it, I must
00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.999
in a situation when it
arose and I don’t cherish
00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:59.999
what I have to do but I
would do what I had to do.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.999
[music]
00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.999
So firing rates went up to, like,
50 to 60% during the Korean war
00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:14.999
as they introduced this kind of
training, 85 to 90% in The Vietnam War.
00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.999
And I haven’t seen any
numbers on the current war,
00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.999
but uh… I talk to a whole lot of company
commanders and platoon leaders, and people say,
00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:29.999
people are more lethal
than they ever imagined.
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:38.000
[sil.]
00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.999
The problem with reflexive fire training
00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:49.999
is, it does bypass in a sense
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.999
their moral decision making process. So whereas in
previous wars, before we had this kind of training,
00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:59.999
a soldier would look at a target and think through, you
know, thinking through umm… \"Should I shoot this person?
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:04.999
Okay, now I’m going to shoot.\" Well,
that takes time. That’s dangerous.
00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.999
When you train them reflexively, they’ll… they
learn to make those decisions much more quickly
00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:14.999
but the price of that is they are not thinking through
the great moral decision of killing another human being.
00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:19.999
[music]
00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.999
We all have a conscience . We all have,
00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:29.999
you know, a sense between, that
tells us between right and wrong.
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:34.999
When I joined the military, I
was 19 and I was like okay,
00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.999
so if we end up going to war, it’s going to be for
a good cause, you know. If we end up going to war,
00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:44.999
it’s going to be to bring
freedom to other lands
00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.999
and we started gearing up to (inaudible) Iraq.
And it was a war that I opposed politically
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.999
but not very personally. I went to Iraq
00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:59.999
thinking that I could push my principles aside and then
get the war over with, put it behind me and move on.
00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:04.999
But nothing ever prepares you
00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:09.999
for the reality of war.
00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:14.999
Go, go, go. Get out of here now.
00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.999
I am gonna shoot him in the leg. I’ll
not shoot you. No English. No English.
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.999
Shut the fuck up.
00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.999
Welcome, welcome. Shut the fuck up.
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.999
Welcome, welcome, welcome. Shut up.
Welcome. Shut up.
00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.999
Nothing ever prepares you for going to Iraq
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.999
and seeing the destruction of an entire
nation. Nothing ever prepares you for,
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:49.999
you know, the unmeasured
killing of civilians.
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.999
Nothing ever prepares you for what that does to you as
a human being, you know, to killing innocent person.
00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:59.999
[music]
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:08.000
Nothing is going to really prepare
you for the level of destruction
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:14.999
that you bring upon a nation and that you
bring upon yourself for being a part of it.
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:19.999
And yet, I have… I have a conscience,
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.999
you know, which goes way beyond any law.
It goes way beyond any order
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:29.999
that I could receive.
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:34.999
[music]
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:43.000
[sil.]
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:49.999
\"We sleep comfortably in our beds at night
because violent men do violence on our behalf.\"
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.999
When I first read that, I was an ROTC cadet
00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.999
and I thought to myself I’m
the person who allows people
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.999
to sleep comfortably in their beds
at night. But I hadn’t actually gone
00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.999
to do the violence yet.
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.999
I grew up in an evangelical household,
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.999
an evangelical Christian household. I grew up
hearing stories about the nobility of service.
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.999
I was the president of
the Young Republicans.
00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.999
I used to carry a copy of the
constitution around with me.
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.999
I received a four year ROTC scholarship
and an appointment to West Point.
00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:40.000
In 2004, I was deployed to Iraq.
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.999
War is not fought by or for ideas.
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.999
It is fought by individual
persons who possess human will.
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:59.999
[music]
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.999
Liberty and democracy
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.999
were not necessarily to the forefront of my mind
when I was first told to lock and load my M16.
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.999
I was the only person to raise my
hand when the convoy commander asked,
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:19.999
\"Who’s never done this before?\"
He looked me in the eyes,
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.999
and he said, \"When you move your
selector lever from safe to semi,
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.999
you’re shooting to kill.\" I stuck my M16
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.999
out the bed of a two-ton truck.
I was thinking about
00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.999
\"What’s my field of fire. Who’s
on the side of the road?
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.999
Who’s that moving on top of a
building?\" I was acting on instinct,
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.999
which is usually the mode that soldiers
go into when they enter a combat zone.
00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.999
[music]
00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:59.999
And you think to yourself,
\"When are there situations
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.999
in which loyalty to a nation state
comes into conflict with loyalty
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.999
to the kingdom of God.\"
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:18.000
[sil.]
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.999
1997, the summer of 97,
00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.999
I go to Fort Leonard
Wood Missouri, boot camp
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.999
and we go out to the bayonet assault course
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:49.999
and the drill sergeant would rally us all up and he would
say, what’s the spirit of the bayonet? And we’d say,
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:54.999
kill, kill, kill without mercy sergeant. And
he’d say, what makes the green grass grow?
00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.999
And we’d say, blood, blood, bright red
blood sergeant. And for a kid who grew up
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:04.999
in evangelical Christianity as
much as we might to be patriotic,
00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:09.999
there’s something that
doesn’t quite sit right.
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.999
I was thinking about the stories in
Sunday school of a gentle Jesus.
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.999
[music]
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:24.999
In the Gospels, it says, \"Do
not oppose an evil doer.
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.999
If a man strikes you on the left
cheek, turn him also your right.\"
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.999
I had started to ask
questions about redemption.
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.999
What would it look like if
that same determination
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.999
that’s used to defeat the enemy
is used to redeem the enemy.
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.999
[music]
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.999
And so I entered the US
military academy at west point
00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:59.999
and I left during my freshman year.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.999
There was something lacking inside of me
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:09.999
in order to really give my all.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.999
And then 9/11 happened. I felt,
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.999
if I were to maintain
integrity, I had to act.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.999
I would sway back and forth between,
I need to become a pacifist to
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.999
I’m gonna go special forces.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.999
May 29th, 2002,
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:39.999
I reenlist in the US army to become an
interrogator, eventually an Arabic linguist.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.999
I focused on duty.
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.999
I focused on the job at hand. And
I started the process of learning
00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.999
the art of interrogation.
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.999
Come on, sit down, sit down. Sit.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:08.000
[music]
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.999
We have let the antiwar people
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.999
claim the talk of morality in war.
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.999
So when… and they literally get offended when
a soldier talks about the moral justification
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.999
or doing what’s morally right.
They think \"No, war is immoral,
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.999
and so the only person who can talk about the morality
in war. The morality of war are those who oppose war.\"
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.999
And that’s ridiculous because the million people who
are out defending our country, fighting our wars
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.999
and the millions who have done it
throughout history are not immoral people.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.999
No one likes to kill no healthy person.
But it needs to be done.
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.999
It may be nasty, maybe unpleasant,
but the alternative’s worse
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.999
and… and we’re the people. My involvement in
the issue of the morality of killing started
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.999
when umm… the army gave me the chance
to get a master’s degree in philosophy.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.999
And first, I’ve never killed anyone, but
I’ve talked with a lot of people who have.
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.999
I’m in the profession where that’s a
regular part of business right now
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.999
and I decided, I really want to understand
this better. But one of the things I did then,
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.999
to try to just get new ideas was,
I put a query into Army Magazine
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.999
and I wrote and said, \"If you’ve
killed anyone in war, in combat,
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.999
I would be very interested
to hear how you justify it.
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.999
Oh, the responses that got.
Umm… Half of them were, \"Amen\"
00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:59.999
Someone needs to be talking about this. This is great that an officer
is talking about it and the other half were, \"What the hell captain,
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.999
don’t you have anything more to do? How dare you
question the morality of what we’re doing and people.\"
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.999
We don’t talk about it. It’s a taboo topic.
Uh… Soldiers, it’s sort of their inner pain,
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.999
very often that… that they live with.
This person uh… who wrote
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.999
is a Vietnam veteran uh… who talked
about, he said, \"The three fears
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:24.999
that were in our 20-year old minds back then in the
jungle. One, will I be able to stand up to combat
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.999
when the bullets fly, two will I survive?
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.999
He mentions a third one and
he described this fear as,
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.999
now that I’ve been to the heart of darkness and done things
that I supremely regret, will I ever again be the person
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.999
that I used to like? Uh… And he said,
this turns out to be the hardest question
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:49.999
and it may go on un… unanswered
for the rest of our lives.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:54.999
[music]
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.999
He shared this story, he says, \"35 years
after a life changing experience.\"
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:04.999
So, still looking for a way I think to… to
make sense of the experience of killing
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.999
on behalf of all of us, on
behalf of this country.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.999
Someday, you’ll be alone.
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.999
Someday, you’ll be alone. Way out there in a
combat zone. Way out there in a combat zone.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.999
Bullets flying all around.
Bullets flying all around.
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.999
(inaudible).
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.999
When you’re out there in the middle of
combat, sometimes it’s kill or be killed.
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.999
And some people when you get into the
first battle, and you actually wound
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.999
or kill someone, it start messing with their
head and they start having mixed feeling
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.999
about being in the situation and that causes
them the stress to start building up.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.999
And then it’a just like shaking up a pop bottle with your
thumb over it, it just keep, keep building and keep building.
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:59.999
See that enemy dressed in black. See that enemy
dressed in black. Got my bayonet in his back.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.999
Got my bayonet in his back. When
I talk to my family about it,
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.999
they ask, \"Hey, have you ever took anyone’s life before?\"
And you say, \"Yes, I have taken someone’s life before,\"
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.999
then they’ll skip the subject.
Shoot to kill.
00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.999
Like, yeah, that’s a tragedy but
they really don’t want to hear it.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:24.999
No one really wants to take anyone’s life.
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:29.999
Sometimes it can’t be helped or prevented
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.999
and sometimes you got to, just look
it’s either me or that person.
00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:43.000
[sil.]
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:49.999
We got some shit here.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.999
Fucking abandoned vehicle.
No license plate.
00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:03.000
[sil.]
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.999
We’re gonna push it, we’re
gonna push it out of the way.
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:23.000
[sil.]
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:44.999
Fuck. Get out. Get out. Get out.
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.999
You okay.
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:58.000
[sil.]
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.999
Hurry up.
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.999
[sil.]
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.999
Son of a bitch.
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:19.999
(inaudible).
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.999
Uh… Get back in the vehicle.
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:33.000
[sil.]
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:43.000
[music]
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.999
This is a pretty diverse community.
00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:59.999
But there is always one
unifying theme here.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.999
It is the military.
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.999
A warrant from Fort Stewart, this place
would drive and blow away I believe.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.999
Pure military town.
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.999
Duty, honor, country.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.999
When you stand up there and you
swear to defend the constitution,
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.999
to me, that’s exactly what it means.
I mean, you are going to protect
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.999
the ideals that founded your country.
Freedom.
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:39.999
I first enlisted in the army
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.999
in January of 1987.
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:49.999
I was in there in the Persian Gulf War.
But I wasn’t deployed to the war.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.999
And so I kind of felt like I hadn’t
00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:59.999
fulfilled my obligation.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.999
So I reenlisted in June of 2000.
In March 2003,
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:09.999
I was deployed to Iraq.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.999
This is just different places where
I was while I was over there.
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.999
Some of them were in Kuwait before we’ve crossed into
Iraq, and some of them were after we were there.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.999
[music]
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.999
My father who fought in World War II, he
tried to tell me war is not as glamorous
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.999
as they make it out to be.
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.999
But I was too stubborn and
bull headed to listen.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.999
When you’re young, you want to get
that experience for yourself.
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:49.999
Boy, I asked for it, and
I really found out.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.999
I saw more than I ever wanted to see.
00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:03.000
[sil.]
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:19.999
I don’t know that I can describe. You know,
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.999
it’s hard. it’s hard to put it in words.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:29.999
Open the door. Open the door.
Get your hands up
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.999
and come outside. We got two doors.
Get outside.
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:39.999
Yeah, clear the house now.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:45.000
No one there. No one, No one in there?
Just… just have a seat right there.
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.999
It’s okay, it’s okay.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.999
Back in the street.
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:09.999
Hey, let’s sweep on down straight,
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.999
and then we’ll come back up (inaudible).
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.999
[music]
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.999
You’re seeing how war affects the
civilians that are in the area.
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.999
Every house you look at has got
bombs, you know craters in it
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.999
or bullet holes in it.
And, and just in general
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:39.999
how it affects people and how it makes
them put all their humanity aside
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.999
in order to be able to
survive in a war zone.
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.999
And then you see the dead, the injured.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:54.999
You stand at the mass graves,
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.999
and… and you smell the decomposing
bodies that are there.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.999
You see the young girl that stands along
the side of the road with her arm burned,
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.999
third degree burns, and you want to help her but you
can’t do it because you’re in the middle of a war.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.999
And you see all that stuff and
you see how it affects you
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.999
and you see how it affects everyone around you and you just
say, \"You know, what? Why are we even doing this anymore?
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:28.000
[sil.]
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.999
I enlisted in the military
just before September 11.
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.999
In fact, I was in the
Tampa recruitment station
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.999
when September 11th happened. And I just finished signing
my contract when my recruiter said, oh go see what’s on TV.
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.999
Oh, my God.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:04.999
I felt, well, this is the very reason
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:09.999
that we have soldiers like everybody did. Everybody
felt wrapped up in that, in that patriotism.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.999
[music]
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.999
And in fact, I felt a kind of pride because I felt,
I was going to serve before everyone realized
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.999
there was a need to serve.
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.999
In my basic training, doubt first
kind of crept into my mind.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.999
Kill! Kill! I was a patriot.
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.999
I… I knew that the military was gonna be like
that I wasn’t completely foolish walking into it.
00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:45.000
But I think I was taken aback
by the force and the venom.
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.999
It was something that I knew
that they needed to do that,
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.999
to turn people into soldiers but it was still kind of
shocking to see it and more shocking of all was seeing myself
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.999
falling in line with that.
And seeing how easy it was
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:09.999
when you’re surrounded by people shouting kill,
kill, kill to also step forward and shout kill.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.999
[sil.]
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:19.999
[music]
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:24.999
That’s when I began to get a sense
that what I was doing wasn’t right.
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.999
[music]
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.999
I had two sergeants who I was close with
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.999
and I’ve been talking to both of them just trying
to iron out this question of morality in war.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.999
I found out that
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.999
they were struggling with the same things. They’ve
been both in the military for more than ten years.
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.999
One thing my sergeant said
to me, what he said that,
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.999
\"Look I’m a Christian, I’m a devout Christian.
I don’t want to kill anybody either.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.999
But for me, it’s not what you do, it’s
the mentality that you do it with.
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:09.999
You hurt others because you have to
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.999
and without hatred in your heart.
Then it’s… it’s all right.
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.999
That was a turning point for me because
I had to look in my… my own heart
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.999
and say can I do it as long
as I don’t give into hatred?
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.999
[music]
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.999
I have these Buddhism books,
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.999
I began to sit down and actually read them
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.999
and reading them, I got this
feeling not of conversion
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.999
but of like belonging like there
was a name for what I thought.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.999
Buddhism is not big on thou
shall and thou shall not.
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:59.999
But there are few guidelines for
membership and the first one is
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.999
to not take life. The first precept
is do not kill. No, if, ands or buts,
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.999
no, do not kill at all for
any reason, don’t take life.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:18.000
[sil.]
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.999
I don’t care how old you get. If you’re
in this environment firing these weapons,
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.999
it’s fine, it’s… it’s a to be honest
with you. A 50-caliber machine gun,
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.999
it’s a very, very, very effective weapon.
It’s got a range of fire, 1,800 meters.
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.999
It’ll blow holes through
walls umm… personnel wise,
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.999
you don’t have a chance, if you’re hit by a bullet
from this weapon, there’s, it’s devastating.
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.999
It’s… it’s pretty gruesome actually.
You saw that?
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.999
Yes, sir. So…
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.999
There’s no civilian job that
compares to an infantryman.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.999
You’re training how to kill people. I
have absolutely no hesitation about it.
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:09.999
It’s just what I’m… I’m… it’s what I do,
it’s my job. Umm… How do I feel afterwards?
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.999
It’s, you know, hey
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.999
I look at it like this. The people on the other side
are soldiers too. And soldiers do what soldiers do.
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:24.999
And they’re trying to kill us. We’re trying to kill
them. And that’s just uh… the ugly face of war.
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:33.000
[music]
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:39.999
I think one reason why people
who have killed in combat
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.999
don’t talk about it is because they
don’t want to be condemned for it.
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.999
And it’s a thing of
civilians to ask soldiers
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:54.999
have you killed anyone? Uh… And I know
soldiers who will just lie and say no
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.999
because they don’t even want to go there
with people who don’t understand.
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.999
But you know what sometimes
killing is morally justified.
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:09.999
War is necessary, if we want to live
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.999
fully human lives. War
is necessary sometimes
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.999
because it’s been brought upon peace
loving people by people who are
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:24.999
for whatever reasons not willing
to let another society,
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.999
another people live in peace. So
war is always a loss in a sense
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.999
that people are gonna get killed. There is
gonna be a lot of collateral damage to…
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.999
to structures, to society,
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.999
to human beings, to non-combatants.
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:49.999
(inaudible). But I think
clearly as we look through,
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.999
throughout history war can be an awful
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:59.999
but necessary and morally right choice.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.999
You can’t say that you believe in human dignity and
human rights if you’re not willing to defend them.
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:09.999
When I get to Iraq,
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.999
the first mission that we
have is to abuse prisoners.
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.999
[music]
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.999
The directive was that we were to keep
these people on sleep deprivation.
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.999
And the way the we did that umm…
we basically got in their face
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.999
and yelled at them and they couldn’t see
that who we were because they were hooded
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:39.999
and these people already, some of them had been awake for 36
hours, some of them had been awake for 48 hours going to 72.
00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:44.999
Basically, you yelled at them,
you order them to get up
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.999
and you tell them to get down and
you keep them moving constantly.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:54.999
The next step when the yelling didn’t work
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.999
was to hit the wall next to
them with a sledgehammer.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.999
This base was a bunker,
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.999
had a lot of echo in it. So when you
hit the wall with a sledgehammer,
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:14.999
it sounded liked an explosion.
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.999
The next step was grab a
nine millimeter pistol
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.999
and charge it next to the individual’s ear
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.999
and press it against their forehead,
so as to make them believe
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.999
that they were about to be executed.
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:39.999
It’s not just something that I’m witnessing
but I’m reading on the newspaper
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.999
or watching in the news on TV.
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.999
But something that I personally am doing.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:54.999
Some people say, once a
soldier, always a soldier.
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.999
Well, once a human being always a human
being. And here you are faced with
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.999
the decision to be a good soldier in the way you’re
told even though something within you tells you
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.999
this is not right. Or doing
what your conscious tells you
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:14.999
regardless of the consequences.
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.000
[sil.]
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.999
Yeah, every time I go on mission I say a prayer
before we go out. This worked so far so.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.999
Most stick with it.
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:43.000
[sil.]
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:04.999
You know, a lot of the things
that happened in Iraq like
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:09.999
when people ask me if… if I killed anybody,
there is a lot of confusion because…
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.999
[sil.]
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.999
It’s the, war is not as clear cut as
they… they portray it in the movies.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:24.999
There was this one time we’re
positioned on this rooftop.
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.999
[sil.]
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.999
It was like a political
protest that turned violent.
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.999
Everyone is quiet
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:44.999
and this young man emerges and
he’s got something in his hand.
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.999
[music]
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.999
And I know, that it’s a grenade
and umm… but I also know that
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.999
he can’t do anything to
us because he’s too far.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:04.999
[sil.]
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.999
Everything that I’m describing to you
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.999
I’m looking through the rear
aperture of my M16 sight.
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.999
[sil.]
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:24.999
So, this is a very, very,
very intense moment and umm…
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:33.000
[sil.]
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:39.999
And I don’t remember squeezing
the trigger and I remember…
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.999
I don’t remember umm… seeing him go down.
All I remember is that we shot at him
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.999
and the next image that I have is, you know, two men
came from the crowd and grabbed him by the shoulders
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.999
and pulled him through a puddle of blood.
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.999
[music]
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.999
And then I remembered that after that mission was over,
you know, before we moved on to our next mission,
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.999
you know, I went into a dark room by
myself and I pulled out my magazine
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.999
and I counted the bullets and I realized
that I had fired eleven bullets at him.
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.999
And umm…
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:28.000
[sil.]
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.999
And it changes you.
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:43.000
[music]
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.999
[sil.]
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:54.999
I’m not a general, I’m not a strategist.
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.999
I was a private first class when I was in Iraq.
I was the least of soldiers of no consequence
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.999
and so when I tell my story, it’s just my
personal narrative. What I saw, my experience,
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:09.999
just one man. I took this photo,
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.999
the first morning crossing the Kuwaiti
demilitarized zone to Southern Iraq.
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:19.999
Our main task was to follow behind in
the wake of the third infantry division
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.999
and it was easy to follow their path because
they’ve left a trail of devastation and awake.
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:29.999
[music]
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.999
Even before I came to Iraq, I didn’t know
whether we should be going over there
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.999
but it wasn’t personal for me
because I saw reality of it.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:48.000
[music]
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.999
This was the prisoner of
war camp in the south.
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.999
We only had a few hundred prisoners and
by and large they were combatants.
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.999
It was my encounter with the prisoners,
that really begin to catalyze
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.999
a lot of things for me that have been fermenting for a
long time. It’s one thing to think of a personal enemy,
00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.999
it’s another to see an Arab young man
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.999
who is you, another young soldier
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.999
who just happens to have lost in this particular battle
and is now being held in a prisoner of war camp.
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.999
I looked at them and I saw my own unit
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.999
but with brown skin.
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:49.999
[music]
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:54.999
I was not able to make the job to turn those
people into sub-humans. I wasn’t able to do it.
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:59.999
But it’s the nature of war
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:04.999
to set the other apart because you can’t kill someone
who is like yourself. You have to believe them
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:09.999
to be subhuman.
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:14.999
So the act of turning them into
sub-humans causes, creates a atrocity.
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.999
And that’s why there are
atrocities in every war.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:28.000
[music]
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.999
And I just felt my fighting
spirit lead out of me.
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.999
I saw my enemy. I had… I
had no hatred for them,
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:54.999
nothing, just sympathy and I
agonized over this for months.
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.999
I talked to all my sergeants, I talked to my Chaplin,
I even talked to the Korean army, Buddhist chaplain
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:04.999
to the extent that I could.
And I ultimately decided
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:09.999
that there was only one way to resolve my
dispute and that was to take a public stand.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.999
So I went to my commander, I turned in my saw,
my uh… belt fed machine gun and I said, look,
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.999
I’ll stay, do my job, but I won’t
fight, I won’t kill anyone.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.999
You can just take this weapon back because I’m not gonna
use it. Only process like conscientious objector.
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:29.999
My sergeant took me aside
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.999
like this little room. He told
me, if you walk that road,
00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.999
it will the hardest thing you’ve ever done.
They will put you through hell.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:44.999
So make sure that you know that this is
what you want to do before you do it.
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.999
The first thing my command did was turn immediately
and openly hostile. Their first act was
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.999
your ballistic plates in front and
back of our armor, we need those back
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.999
since you’re a conscientious objector, you won’t be fighting, so you
don’t need any body armor. Then you can’t go home on your home leaves.
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.999
Then you’re gonna have to do all these unpleasant jobs and everybody
is gonna treat you badly and we told everyone in the company, we
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:09.999
briefed the whole company that you’re trying to
be a conscientious objector, so they can exert
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.999
more peer pressure on you. They saw me as the enemy,
they saw me as a traitor. They saw me as a sympathizer.
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.999
They didn’t want anything to do with me.
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.999
And the only guys who stayed tight with me were the guys from my motor pool, the fellow
mechanics, who I worked with everyday. Who had seen me struggling, that who’s seen me agonizing.
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.999
They knew I was sincere, they knew I wasn’t a
coward. They knew I wasn’t trying to get out of it.
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.999
They knew that I couldn’t kill anyone and
they’re still my good friends to this day.
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.999
But everybody else in my unit turned their back on me. And
when I perceived this hostility coming from the command,
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.999
that’s when it became this absolutely
adamant they are like, \"No,
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.999
you’re trying to… to break me. You don’t know
who you’re dealing with. I’m gonna break you.\"
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.999
And I’m going to win this.
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:59.999
[music]
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.999
When one applies for conscientious
objectors status, there is a regulation
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:09.999
that fully guides a soldier
through the process.
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:14.999
The soldier makes a formal application
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.999
to his chain of command requesting
conscientious objector status.
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:24.999
[music]
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.999
The soldier has a burden of proof.
The soldier has to prove
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:34.999
that the beliefs are genuine, that the beliefs
are real, that the believes crystallized
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.999
after the soldier came on active duty. The
soldier is interviewed by the chain of command
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.999
by a Chaplain, by a person through
mental health and they compile
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.999
a complete application
documenting their beliefs
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.999
and why they think they should be a conscientious objector.
An independent investigating officer is important.
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.999
Then the entire packet has to
go through the chain of command
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:04.999
and is ultimately reviewed by a board of
officers at headquarters department of the army
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:10.000
and then ultimately a decision is made whether
or not the soldier is a conscientious objector.
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:24.999
If you are to become a conscientious
objector by the current army guidelines,
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:29.999
you must state a moral opposition to all war. That’s in the
regulations, you can’t pick and choose which wars you’ll serve in
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.999
and which wars you will not serve in.
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:39.999
But ultimately, the conscientious objector
regulation is the government’s way of recognizing
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.999
that a spiritual contract
trumps a legal contract.
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:49.999
And that it’s more important that someone be true
to themselves or true to their highest believes,
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.999
then uphold their contract with the
government. We all raised our right hand.
00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.999
And that’s the bottom line right there,
that’s what separates us from a civilian.
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.999
We raise our right hand. And if you
can’t… if you can’t honor that,
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.999
you may not like… you may not like
what you’re doing in the military.
00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.999
But if they give you an order to do something,
even if you don’t like it, you got to do it.
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:19.999
Now you swear to defend the constitution
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.999
of the United States against all
enemies, both foreign and domestic.
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.999
You raise your right hand. You took an oath
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.999
and you know that oath to
me is written in the blood
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:39.999
of millions of Americans
in the past, even today.
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.999
They all gave that ultimate sacrifice.
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:49.999
[sil.]
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:54.999
I am a conscientious
objector and the fact is
00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:59.999
I am more patriot now than when I
was carrying a gun in Iraq by far.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.999
In our normal life, it’s so easy
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:09.999
to forget about the Iraq war but the
fact is there are people dying in Iraq
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.999
right now while we’re talking.
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.999
So I’m speaking out in memoriam for them.
00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:24.999
Both the Iraqis and
American soldiers who died.
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.999
That’s part of my witness
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:34.999
of being a conscientious objector. Florida.
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:39.999
For peace. Florida. For peace.
But by saying
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:44.999
that we can live in a world without
war, you’re saying this is an ideal
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.999
that all men should aspire to. America.
For peace. America. For peace.
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:54.999
But if you’re gonna be a realist and if you’re gonna live in this
world, you have to understand that not everyone has that view.
00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:59.999
So most important thing is but
to see how… is to live peaceably
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:04.999
with people that you disagree with.
In the broadest sense,
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:09.999
being a conscientious objector is about ending war.
It’s about stating the unacceptability of war.
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.999
But I want people to come to
their own truth about it.
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.999
And part of that is not trying to
force people to accept your view.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.999
I would say maybe if they go
through certain life experiences,
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:29.999
if they go to war for example,
they will come to my perspective.
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.999
Maybe…
00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:39.999
When I came back from Iraq,
00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:44.999
umm… I didn’t think I could be a conscientious
objector. Because I have been to war,
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.999
I’ve been to combat. I’ve squeezed my
trigger. I had perhaps killed people.
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.999
How could someone come in from that
could be a… a conscientious objector.
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:59.999
There is no way. And it’s
really hard to sit down
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:04.999
and make moral decisions when you’re trying
to stay alive. Somebody shoots at you,
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.999
you immediately take cover. You have your finger
on the safety, immediately it goes to fire.
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:14.999
You know, you do everything
without even thinking about it.
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.999
But then I came home on a two-week leave
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.999
and removed from that dangerous
situation removed from that pressure,
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.999
I started thinking about the war.
I’m looking for answers.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:34.999
[sil.]
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:39.999
And umm… something changed my life.
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.999
I began to object in a more profound
personal, spiritual way to war.
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:49.999
And so I made a commitment
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.999
that I was a conscientious objector
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.999
and I wasn’t going back.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.999
And it wasn’t a decision that took place
overnight, you know. It’s a painful process
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.999
because it’s healing but
it’s… could destroy you.
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.999
There all this… this… this
fear, there’s this regret,
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:19.999
there is this the issue of camaraderie
and, you know, your buddies in war
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.999
and also the fear of
punishment and all this guilt
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:29.999
and being tried by a court-martial.
And just the… the word,
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.999
the words, \"Court Martial,\" you
know, it’s like so evil and so bad.
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:39.999
All these horrible images, you
know, come… come to you and like,
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.999
you know, being a coward and being a traitor
and… and… and, you know, losing your freedom
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:49.999
and ending up in a jail
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.999
and then suddenly, you
know, I… I say, you know,
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:59.999
I’m not gonna go to war. I’m
not gonna go back to that.
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.999
I’m not going to go back to
obey everything that I’m told.
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:09.999
Keeping my mouth shut and ignoring the fact that
I have a conscience, I’m going to take a stand
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:14.999
and I’m going to say, \"No.\" I’m
not going back to this war.
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:20.000
[music]
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:29.999
Staff sergeant Camilo Mejia
refused return to Iraq.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.999
He felt so strongly about his decision that
he took the risky step of going public
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.999
and talking to us while still in hiding.
How long have you been able?
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:44.999
Since mid-October of last year. Sergeant Mejia
abandoned his unit in the middle of the war,
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.999
in one of the most dangerous parts of Iraq.
You’ve been a fugitive. Yes.
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:54.999
Because you broke American military law.
Yes. There is no doubt that in your mind
00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:59.999
that you broke the law? Right.
Are you a coward? No, I’m not.
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.999
His duty is not in question
myself or anybody higher than me.
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.999
Captain (inaudible) was Mejia’s Florida
national guard commanding officer.
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.999
We’re not paid in the military to uh… form personal
opinions or to doubt what our leaders say.
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:19.999
Why did this soldier go AWOL.
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:24.999
This soldier went AWOL because this soldier does not think
that this is a good war. And when you look at the war
00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.999
and you look at the reasons that took us to
war, and you don’t find that any of the things
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:34.999
that we were told that we are going
to war for turned out to be true.
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:39.999
When you don’t find that there are weapons of mass destruction and when
you don’t find that there was a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida.
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.999
And you see that you’re not helping the people and
you see that the people don’t want you there.
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.999
To me there is no military contract
and… and… and no military duty
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:54.999
that is going to justify being a part
of that war. And it just exploded
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:59.999
because I was the first combat veteran
to come back from Iraq and go public
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.999
and say this is wrong.
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:09.999
I… I did not prepare a statement because what I have to have say, I have
to say from the heart and it’s… it’s a very simple message… message
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:14.999
and it simply is that I’m saying no to war.
00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:19.999
I went to Iraq and I was
an instrument of violence
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.999
and now I’ve decided to become an
instrument of peace. I have decided,
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:29.999
I’m not going to be a part of that war but I’m going back to
the military today. I have really no idea what’s gonna happen
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.999
but whatever happens, if… if they try to say that
I’m a criminal and they give me many years in jail,
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:39.999
at least I know that I… that I made the right decision
and that God has forgiven me already. Thank you.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:48.000
[music]
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:54.999
Move it back.
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:59.999
Move it back right now. Move it back.
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.999
Move it back.
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:09.999
I went back to the military
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.999
and everything that I feared happened.
I was called a coward,
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.999
I was called a traitor. I
was accused of desertion,
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.999
I was tried(ph), I was convicted,
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.999
I was sentenced. I was put in jail
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:34.999
and let me tell you, I’ve never felt
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:39.999
freer in my life, you know. There is
no higher assertion of your freedom
00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:45.000
than to follow your conscientious.
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.999
When it comes to conscientious objectors,
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:09.999
the one thing that occurs to me right
up front is their freedom to decent
00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:14.999
is made possible by the
soldiers that they criticize.
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.999
That in a perfect world, it would be
great if we could all be peaceful
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:24.999
and not harm each other. But we
don’t live in a perfect world.
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.999
And I wonder about the
conscientious objector,
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.999
what would he do if that was
his or her responsibility
00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:39.999
to defend others? It’s
one thing to say that
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:44.999
I will sit and take the punishment
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:49.999
and if someone wants to do that based on their religious
beliefs or their convictions then I respect that absolutely.
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:54.999
But I have trouble respecting them saying
00:59:55.000 --> 00:59:59.999
I will allow someone else to get
hurt when I could stop him.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.999
[sil.]
01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:09.999
People tell me, you know, what would have
happened if… if Hitler was not stopped?
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:14.999
Well, what would have happened
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.999
if there would have been enough conscientious objectors
in the Nazi army? There would have been no war.
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:24.999
There would have been no Hitler.
There would have been no Holocaust.
01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:29.999
If you believe that
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:34.999
there never can be enough people who are conscientious
objectors (inaudible) monster like Hitler
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:39.999
then it’s never going to happen. First you have to dream it
and then you have to live your dream and make it happen.
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.999
For you to tell me that, you know, how is it possible that
there are going to be that many conscientious objectors,
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:49.999
you know, that just tells me that, you know,
that just gives me more energy to say,
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:54.999
it is possible and we… we can have that many
conscientious objectors, we have to believe that.
01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:59.999
If we don’t believe that and we don’t have that dream and
if we don’t live out to that dream, then how are we…
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.999
how are we going to survive as a human
race? If we continue to embrace war
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:09.999
as a solution in some cases and if we continue to think
that there can never be enough conscientious objectors
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:15.000
to stop an army.
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:35.000
[sil.]
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:44.999
I was at Abu Ghraib for
about six months total
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.999
of interrogation time.
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.999
When I wasn’t at the interrogation
center, when I was on my free time,
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.999
I spent a lot of time
in the chapel praying.
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:04.999
I was interrogating schoolboys,
young fathers, imams,
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.999
average people taken off the streets
and put into my interrogation booth.
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:14.999
[music]
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.999
Finally five months into my time at Abu
Ghraib, I had an interrogation with a man
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.999
who was a self-proclaimed Jihadist. He
told me that he had a certain peace
01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:29.999
because of his faith in Islam,
that if it was the will of God
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.999
for him to stay in prison and…
and if he never was released,
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:39.999
that he would be okay with that.
And he challenged me
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:44.999
wondering if I had that same kind of peace in
my life. Wondering if I had the same kind of
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:49.999
spiritual centeredness to
take that kind of faith.
01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:54.999
He then sort of talking about Jesus
01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:59.999
that I wasn’t fulfilling the call
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:04.999
to turn the other cheek,
to love one’s enemies.
01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:09.999
I took a little bit offense to this comment
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:14.999
because it came from the mouth of self-proclaimed Jihadist
who told me that he would kill me if he had the chance.
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.999
But something that definitely
occurred within me
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:24.999
when posed with that kind of challenge,
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:29.999
I had nothing I could say to him.
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:34.999
I absolutely agreed with him. My
position as a U.S. army integrator
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:39.999
contradicted my calling simply as a
Christian and it hindered my ability
01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:44.999
to do things like love my enemies.
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:49.999
I stopped the interrogation. I had
lost all perspective as a soldier.
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:54.999
I wanteded to ask him
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.999
about his willingness to kill me. I wanted to him
about the peace that he found in his religion
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:04.999
and if there could possibly be a way to
get outside of the cycle of vengeance
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:09.999
that… that he and I could share a path.
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.999
[music]
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.999
In the regulation governing
conscientious objection,
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:24.999
there is a… an element that they call
the crystallization of conscience
01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:29.999
and every CO applicant has to
state what that was for them.
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:34.999
And the interrogation with that Jihadist
was my crystallization of conscientious.
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:39.999
And it wasn’t that a bunch of new beliefs
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.999
suddenly emerged out of no where.
I realized for me
01:04:45.000 --> 01:04:49.999
to follow Christ involves taking
seriously the charge for peacemaking.
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.999
[music]
01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:59.999
In the beginning of February 2005 I
formally submitted my application
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:04.999
to be considered a conscientious objector.
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:09.999
My application was approved.
By the 30th of May,
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:14.999
I was out of the army.
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:19.999
[sil.]
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.999
One thing that has always interested me
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:29.999
in talking with people who… who
really take their moral guidance
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:34.999
from the Christian scriptures is
the story of the good Samaritan.
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.999
And this theme comes up a lot in the
words of Jesus Christ which is,
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.999
you know, the story of the good Samaritan
is… is Samaritans walking down the street
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:49.999
and that, you know, when they see a person who is hurt
and injured, who is beaten and he gives them aid.
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:54.999
The one thing that fascinates me is,
well, what if the good Samaritan
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:59.999
had come a little earlier and he had
seen the person getting beaten up.
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.999
Would it be the Christian thing to do to
sit and wait for the beating to be done,
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.999
to hope he survives, so you could give him help. Would
it be the Christian thing to do to call someone else
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:14.999
to do the dirty work of stopping the evil wrong that
was occurring, or is it a Christian thing to do
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:19.999
to stop the beating even using
lethal force if you had to.
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:24.999
I think it takes more courage and
more nobility to get in there
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:29.999
and to risk your own life to
protect the innocent person.
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.999
[music]
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:39.999
I lived as a soldier for ten years.
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.999
Some of the thing that
happened in Iraq, you know,
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.999
things that my father told me started coming back
in our life. This is what he was trying to tell me.
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:54.999
And I started thinking about
01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:59.999
changing mind or heart or
however you want to put it.
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:04.999
But umm… it took being over
there for almost seven months
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.999
and then being back here
for a year and a half,
01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:14.999
you know, relieved, doing a
lot of deep down reflection
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:19.999
and I guess the term is soul searching.
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:24.999
I mean, I talked about it with
my wife, going over and over
01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:29.999
and over again thinking about it.
And I spent a lot of time learning
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:34.999
and reevaluating my… my own
personal opinion on myself
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.999
and how I wanted to conduct myself.
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.999
[music]
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:49.999
I guess, you can go back to a
letter that I’ve written to Monica
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:54.999
when we were in the area of Iraq that was
supposed to be where the garden of Eden,
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.999
you know, the cradle of civilization
and where mankind began.
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:04.999
I had to ask myself,
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.999
\"Why am I carrying around an
M16 in the garden of Eden?\"
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:18.000
[music]
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:29.999
[sil.]
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:34.999
There is nothing honorable in killing.
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.999
I went to the war zone
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.999
and I started seeing how I need to change.
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:49.999
And the only way to do that is to not
pick up a rifle and kill another person.
01:08:50.000 --> 01:08:54.999
That’s why I’m applying for
conscientious objector.
01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:00.000
[music]
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:14.999
Sergeant Benderman was to essentially
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:19.999
be on an airplane and fly
to Iraq with his unit.
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:24.999
These offenses go to the essence of what it is to
serve in the military. You cannot have discipline
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:29.999
if you have people that
are disobeying orders.
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:34.999
Honor and duty to near and dear
to the Southern man’s heart.
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:39.999
I had to ask myself, am I abandoning the
people that I serve with, my fellow soldiers?
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:44.999
Should I go over there
and fight beside them
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:49.999
and try to save as many as I could
that way or should I spend my efforts
01:09:50.000 --> 01:09:54.999
to just eradicate or try to get
people to eradicate war together
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:59.999
so no soldiers are dying in it.
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:04.999
Because that’s the only way we’re gonna stop a war
and individuals are gonna have to make up their mind
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:09.999
that they’re not going to do it.
From all sides and I just here
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:14.999
and when you get enough people doing
that, then we can get rid of war.
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:19.999
[music]
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:24.999
I don’t want them to kill me.
So why would I kill them.
01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:29.999
They’re just like us.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:34.999
[music]
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:43.000
[sil.]
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:49.999
The soldier to your left
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.999
and the soldier to your right is thinking the same thing, \"A, I don’t
want to die, and B, I don’t want to see anybody around me dying.
01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:59.999
If I have to do whatever it
takes to protect my life
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:04.999
and to protect the lives of the people next to
me, so be it.\" All right when I fire, you go.
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:09.999
As far as like after shocks of war,
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:14.999
I guess nobody really thinks about that.
The individual soldier on the ground,
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:19.999
they don’t think about that.
The young troopers too.
01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:24.999
All you basically try to teach
them is, \"Hey, go in there,
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:29.999
do your thing, come back out and
try to forget about what you did.
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.999
That’s the best way to do it.
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:39.999
[music]
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:44.999
This is Abu Ghraib prison.
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:49.999
A lot of what I saw at Abu Ghraib will
be with me for the rest of my life.
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:54.999
The mentality was, these are the people who are
trying to kill us. These are the terrorists,
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.999
these are the insurgents out to get us. So anything we do to
them, the more the better and whoever was the most brutal
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.999
and the roughest got the most accolades in the
company. The prison wasn’t what I thought it was.
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.999
I found out that the vast majority of these
people hadn’t committed violent crimes.
01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:14.999
They have been picked up on a random sweep
or being at wrong place at the wrong time.
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:19.999
They were there because of a mistake,
and they were in this prison camp
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:24.999
living in filth and squalor,
hemmed in by barb wire,
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:29.999
cold, hungry. They serve food that had rats
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:34.999
or be rotting. There was dysentery,
tuberculosis, mistreatment,
01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:39.999
abuse, all these horrible things going on.
I found it impossible to square
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:44.999
the treatment they’re receiving at our hands
with what they’re actually in there for.
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:49.999
I thought, \"Oh my God, this… these are petty criminals and we’re
treating them like they’re animals like they’re the worst,
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:54.999
most dangerous insurgents. This is one of the prisoners
who was shot dead November 24th in Abu Ghraib prison
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:59.999
for throwing stones in protest
of his living conditions.
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:04.999
This is what it looks like when you take
three, two, two three bullets to the face
01:13:05.000 --> 01:13:09.999
for throwing stones in protest
of your living conditions.
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:14.999
This is a member of my unit
with a plastic MRE spoon
01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:19.999
scooping out the brains while four other
soldiers look on and two take photographs.
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:24.999
I don’t like to talk about this. I like
to report this about our own forces.
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:29.999
It was like we were on the frontier. We were
outside of civilization. We were outside
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:34.999
of all moral law
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:39.999
and that was life under our
care, under America’s care.
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:44.999
And you saw dead look in
their eyes, day after day,
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:49.999
no word, no trial with no where to go.
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:54.999
This was not right.
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:59.999
This is not me. This is a
vindication of my CO belief.
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:04.999
This is the reason, I became CO. This
is the very reason that it’s important
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:09.999
that we take a stand because of suffering like
this, because of misery like this, that I’m glad
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:14.999
that I stood out and became
the conscientious objector.
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.999
This is the other thing I got. Kind of
tells the whole story of my deployment.
01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:24.999
Specialist Aidan J. Delgado as a survivor,
November 26 enemy attacks by mortar,
01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:29.999
small arms fire rocket, RPG,
IED and vehicle born IED.
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:34.999
I didn’t receive words until after I’ve already returned
from Iraq that I got my conscientious objector status.
01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:39.999
That I had been honorably discharged.
It was about 18 months
01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:44.999
after I applied. So it was a long hard roll
and it did not shorten my time in Iraq
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:49.999
by a single minute. It’s the hardest,
01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:54.999
longest way to go in the military.
01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:59.999
You don’t become a conscientious objector because you went
out the easy way. You become a conscientious objector
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.000
because you want to get out the
right way, no matter the cost.
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:24.999
You know, sergeant Kevin
Benderman has been charged
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:29.999
at a level of court martial that is the most serious
type. The maximum penalty that he faces rice now
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:34.999
is five years confinement and
a dishonorable discharge.
01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:39.999
With regards to United States versus Benderman, at
this time the charges before the court are desertion
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:44.999
and missing movement.
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:49.999
Sergeant Benderman’s CO
application was denied.
01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:54.999
It was clearly a hostile,
hostile environment
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:59.999
where uh… he’s one of those
conscientious objector applicants,
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:04.999
minority that they are and uh… by golly,
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:10.000
you know, will send a message
that uh… you don’t do this.
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:23.000
[music]
01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:29.999
Humanity eventually figured out
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:34.999
that human sacrifice was wrong.
So they stopped doing that.
01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:39.999
And we eventually figured out that slavery
was wrong. So we stopped doing that.
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:44.999
So why don’t we use that
same criteria for war?
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:49.999
Just get away from it
all away, all together.
01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:54.999
Here you have
01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:59.999
ten year army veteran who
comes back from Iraq
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:04.999
with an enhanced sense of humanity.
01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:09.999
He’s dangerous for the military.
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:14.999
They don’t want 40 year old soldier to say,
\"Hey, these people are brothers and sisters.\"
01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:23.000
[music]
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:43.000
[sil.]
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:08.000
[music]
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:14.999
Sergeant Benderman was
found guilty of one charge
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:19.999
of missing movement by design.
He will be reduced
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:24.999
to the grade of E1. Confined for 15 months and
dishonorably discharged from the military.
01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:29.999
[music]
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:34.999
Kevin was found guilty
01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:39.999
but, you know, he had the
freedom to put his weapon down.
01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:44.999
[music]
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:49.999
He had the freedom to say you can put me in
jail but you cannot make me kill a human being
01:18:50.000 --> 01:18:54.999
and that gives people peace.
01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:59.999
[music]
01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:04.999
If there is anything that I can get across to
other soldiers is that I’m not against them.
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:09.999
But I’m against war.
01:19:10.000 --> 01:19:14.999
[music]
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:19.999
Every soldier who goes, goes in our
place, they fight our name, they’re us.
01:19:20.000 --> 01:19:24.999
So we think, we own all the good stuff in
Iraq. We own distributing toothbrushes
01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.999
and opening schools. That’s us, that
represents us. We are doing good things.
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:34.999
I would never take that away from us.
But alongside all the good things,
01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:39.999
there is so much ugliness, and so
much violence, and so much brutality.
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:44.999
It’s not that this war is different, it’s that
this war is not different. It’s a part of war,
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:49.999
every war. This is…
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:54.999
this is what they mean when they
talk about collateral damage
01:19:55.000 --> 01:19:59.999
and what it means when we say a bomb or a missile
went off course and X number of civilians were hit
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:04.999
or X number of civilians were injured in a
U.S. air strike. These are coalition ignitions
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:09.999
that are designed to roast
people and that’s what they do.
01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:18.000
[music]
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:24.999
I’m not trying to uh… shock people. I’m
not trying to show war pornography,
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:29.999
that’s not my purpose. My purpose is
to give people a sense of ownership
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:34.999
that this is you, this represents you.
Like if people could see the bodies,
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:39.999
the blood, they wouldn’t be able to
support this war with a clear conscience.
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:44.999
They wouldn’t be able to say, \"Yes, that’s what I want
representing me. That’s what I want representing America.
01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:49.999
That’s, I’m proud of that.\"
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:58.000
[music]
01:21:05.000 --> 01:21:09.999
No soldier should leave
their conscience behind.
01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:14.999
In war, it’s not that
morality doesn’t apply.
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:19.999
In war, morality is most important
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:24.999
because the… the soldier can do
so much good or so much bad.
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:29.999
And there is, there is the wall
between the human and the animal
01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:34.999
that you have to… you have to balance between, \"Hey,
this isn’t right or this is what I have to do.\"
01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:39.999
It doesn’t mean
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:44.999
we shouldn’t work for peace. It doesn’t mean
there shouldn’t be a high threshold for war
01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:49.999
but until there are people who
will stop being aggressive,
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:54.999
we will need the people to
defend the innocent. By no means
01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:59.999
will my conscientious
objection eliminate the need
01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:04.999
for militaries tomorrow. But the
goal is to create a society
01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:09.999
that moves ever toward that.
Peace is not a utopian division.
01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:14.999
It can happen, but it takes
people willing to commit
01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:19.999
both their faith and their
practical efforts to achieving it
01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:24.999
and you’re not going to achieve
that by constantly falling back
01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:29.999
on yesterday’s wrong solution. You have
to have the guts to try something new.
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:34.999
And people who are applying
for conscientious objection
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:39.999
and refusing military service are
saying, I have a different picture
01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:44.999
of tomorrow’s humanity and I want
to be involved in creating that.
01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:49.999
No one really wants to go to war
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:54.999
but, you know, sometimes some
things can’t be avoided.
01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:59.999
War is all about power like all different
countries, they fight for power,
01:23:00.000 --> 01:23:04.999
as long as there is one person trying to
take the power from some other person,
01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:09.999
of course yeah, there’s
gonna always be war.
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:14.999
Well, maybe we are naïve.
01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:19.999
But maybe it’s starts of being naïve
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:24.999
and then, you know, us… more people become
conscientious objectors, as more people
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:29.999
embrace the concept of pacifism,
then it’s no longer… no longer naïve
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:34.999
like may have been naïve to say that we
could reach the moon. It maybe naïve,
01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:39.999
you know, people might have looked at you
like you’re crazy, you’re a dreamer.
01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:44.999
It starts off being naïve then you’re a dreamer
then maybe it’s possible. And then one day,
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:49.999
you know, you prove right
and then there is peace.
01:23:50.000 --> 01:23:58.000
[music]
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:50.000
[sil.]
Distributor: Bullfrog Films
Length: 54 minutes
Date: 2008
Genre: Expository
Language: English
Grade: 9-12, College, Adult
Color/BW:
Closed Captioning: Available
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