What I Didn't Know About Free Speech on College Campuses: A Filmmaker's Journey

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What I Didn't Know About Free Speech on College Campuses tells the story of a filmmaker Julie Akeret's journey of discovery about the realities of free speech in higher education -- from a mild irritation to a deep fear for our country, from Left to Right and back again. The film was intended to be a small project about free speech on college campuses, motivated by her son's freshman year experiences – until a powerful totalitarian challenge threatened this most American of rights. Akeret came to see that even a very basic freedom can be understood and championed in many different ways. And in the hunger for power, it can even be ignored.

And so, the issue returned to the place where the film began: on campus. From cancel culture to hate speech to safe spaces, Akeret investigates the state of free speech rights at colleges and universities in the U.S. Today, American universities that allow student protest are denied billions of dollars in funding. In response, some universities have restricted or outright banned protest activities. If speech is no longer free in America, is it still America?

In What I Didn't Know About Free Speech on College Campuses, Akeret delves into this question through discussions with students and faculty alike, including captivating interviews with PBS luminary and President of Wesleyan University, Michael Roth; African-American activist Loretta Ross of Smith College; and civil rights lawyer William Newman of the ACLU.

"With thoughtful commentary, this film seeks to explain how issues such as cultural appropriation, cancel culture, safe spaces, trigger warnings, hate speech, and diversity and inclusion have emerged more prominently in recent years and highlights the importance of free speech and civil discourse in furthering the pursuit of truth. I especially appreciate the way the film cites attempts to censor speech by both right-wing and left-wing groups and shows how actions to exclude speakers often bring more publicity to their causes. I will definitely be interested in showing this on our campus." John Vile, Dean and Professor of Political Science, Middle Tennessee State University

"Offering a range of student and academic insights on free speech on campus, this documentary helps to better understand conservative political pressure and self-censorship that are stifling effective teaching and undermining democracy. A wake-up call for us all!" Eve Darian-Smith, Professor of Global & International Studies, University of California- Irvine, Author, Policing Higher Education: The Antidemocratic Attack on Scholars and Why It Matters

"Free speech on campus has been a fraught topic in recent years. Moving beyond the sensationalist headlines, this nuanced film provides a wonderful guide through the issues and the tools for imagining how we can do better." Tom Ginsburg, Professor of International Law, Professor of Political Science, Faculty Director, Forum for Free Inquiry and Expression, University of Chicago

"This film presents a diverse range of individuals -- including experts and various members of the general public -- who state a broad range of ideas about free speech. It should stimulate all viewers to think hard about this topic, which is vitally important to every one of us." Nadine Strossen, Professor of Law Emerita, New York Law School, Author, HATE: Why We Should Resist it With Free Speech, Not Censorship

"I recommend this film for classrooms and public forums looking to reach a wide audience on this topic - followed by a discussion with diverse voices that includes those who are actively fighting right-wing laws against academic freedom, administrative policies that restrict freedom of speech, and the bipartisan silencing of those that speak out against militarism and genocide." Pranav Jani, Associate Professor of English, Ohio State University, creator and host, Together We Rise: Solidarity Stories from Central Ohio

"Neutrality, as advocates for justice have historically observed, is an inherently conservative position. In What I Didn't Know About Free Speech..., Akeret documents a personal journey exploring attitudes toward freedom of expression and how issues of inclusion and free speech are both at odds, but also crucial for each other. Her intellectual travels are personal, political, and ultimately insightful without being sermonic, and can help any introductory class or community group with the initial questions surrounding these issues." M. Elizabeth Thorpe, Associate Professor of Communication, SUNY Brockport, Editor, Communication Law Review

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Main credits

Akeret, Julie (film director)
Akeret, Julie (narrator)
Chowder, Ken (screenwriter)

Other credits

Cinematography, Alan Dater; editing, Terry Lajtha; music, John Daniel, Fretless Bass.

MARC Record See Worldcat record

Keywords

free speech,college campuses,university campuses,campus life,student life,cancel culture,cancelled,cancelling,first amendment,1st amendment,civil rights,Constitution,Constitutional protections,higher education,academic administration,student rights,students' rights; "What I Didn't Know About Free Speech"; Bullfrog Films

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[melancholy jazz clarinet]

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[upbeat funk music]
♪ All right ♪

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- [Julie] This is the
story of an education.

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My education.

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A few years ago, we moved
from New York City to

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Northampton, MA, from the
most liberal American city

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to the most liberal college town.

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Massachusetts has been dubbed
the most educated state

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in the US.

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About half the adults
have a BA or more.

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In just my area, there
are five universities.

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This is where smart lives,

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a paradise for a good
liberal filmmaker.

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[car engine revving]

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But then, something happened.

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My son Sam went off to college,

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and that's when my education began.

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In a first semester writing class,

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Sam wrote a story about
an anti-poaching unit

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working to protect elephants in Ghana.

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He was quickly told by his classmates

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to "write what you know."

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Okay, good advice, but Sam
wrote from the point of view

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of an African, and
according to his classmates,

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that was not okay.

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He should only use the perspective

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of a white, 18-year-old,
middle class male.

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Anything else was
cultural appropriation.

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[loping jazz bass]

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Wait, what?

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Cultural appropriation?

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Aren't you allowed to
write and say what you want

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on a college campus?

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That's called free speech,
an academic freedom, right?

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Of course, Sam was not
the only offending party

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at the local colleges.

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[loping jazz bass]

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He soon discovered cancel culture,

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a world where shame was
handed out quite readily.

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- In my opinion,
free speech on campus,

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in the classrooms that I was in,

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some of the more everyday
spaces that I was in,

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just the lunchroom,
just walking to class,

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wherever it may be, was that
free speech was something

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that seemed to be in danger.

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But, I definitely think a
smaller group of people felt

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like they couldn't express their
opinions about those things

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or express their genuine feelings

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about any number of issues.

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- Things we read or
things we talk about,

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I legitimately cannot
share how I'm feeling,

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not because I'm like a
flaming conservative or

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because my views are
just so horrendous,

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but because I know, like, if
I say something that's off,

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anyone in the class can be like,

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"Oh my god, Jocelyn, we hate her.

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"Let's cancel her."

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- [Julie] Cancel culture was creating

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an atmosphere of censorship.

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And just who was doing the canceling?

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The liberal left,

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or the conservative right?

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[upbeat funk music]

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And what about creativity
and freedom of expression?

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I had to get this figured out.

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To find out, I started on a
journey, a journey of ideas.

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I would meet students,
professors, administrators,

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and college presidents.

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I'd ask them about
free speech, what it is

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and who it's for,
and why we want it at all.

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[upbeat funk music]

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[patriotic marching music]

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From the beginning, I knew this much--

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free speech in the U.S.
began when the U.S. began,

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with the Bill of Rights in 1789.

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- The First Amendment guarantees
the right to free speech.

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It protects people who wanna
criticize the government.

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It allows vigorous political
debate without fear

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of criminal or civil repercussions.

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- Like a lot of scholars,
I think freedom of speech,

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rooted in the First Amendment,
is primarily

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to protect political speech.

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We live in a democracy.

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You can't have a democracy
without freedom of speech.

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People are going to vote.

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They need to know all the ideas

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that are relevant in the elections.

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They need to express their own ideas.

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Even more, they need to be free

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to hear everyone else's ideas

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before they make a decision.

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- If we're thinking about the
question of what the limits

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to free speech are, the example
that people always give is

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that even if you have free
speech, you don't have the right

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to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

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So for example, in the crowded
theater, if you yell "Fire!"

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and there's a stampede,
people are gonna be injured.

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Your freedom of speech
only extends so far

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when you're free speech impacts
another person negatively

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and harms them.

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- A lot of people get
punished for

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what could be called
free speech, I mean

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look at what Colin
Kaepernick had to go through

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for just kneeling.

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That's called free speech, but
I found that a lot of people

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with power weren't ready to
defend his free speech rights.

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Free speech ain't never been free.

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It's a myth that only
the privileged can enjoy.

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- So my expertise very much
relates to my biography

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of someone who
came from the States,

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grew up under communism,
where it's not just

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that the control is
against speaking your mind,

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it's also instructing you
what your mind should be,

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what you should say.

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The role of the arts and the
intellectuals was so key,

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because they were battling
for the freedom of speech

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as in being able to

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criticize the government
or publish works of art

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that were not necessarily
following a certain kind of idea

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of what's considered to be acceptable.

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- Free speech is that
First Amendment promise of

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freedom of thought
and freedom of inquiry,

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freedom to engage in
artistic activity,

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freedom to express ourselves,

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freedom to dance and sing and perform

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in a thousand different
ways that say who we are

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and what we are.

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- What I think freedom
of speech is really about

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is when the people like
me, right, wanna say,

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"My president sucks!", right,

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and I wanna write it in the
newspaper and I'm not able to,

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or I get arrested for
saying my president sucks.

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- To me, it's very
clear that free speech

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is a fundamental value of
colleges and universities.

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It's so important for inquiry,
for research, for teaching.

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- I think that colleges and
universities are supposed to be,

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at their best,
the cradle of knowledge,

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and I believe that it
would be a disservice

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to students if free
speech was obstructed.

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- Everyone comes
from a different place.

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Like, we're a community
filled with diverse people

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with diverse backgrounds.

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We don't all think alike and,
like, there's power in that.

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- And I think that,
in an educational space,

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free speech is important so
that we can get a developed

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and layered understanding
of our own beliefs

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and the beliefs of others.

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- Free speech is important 'cause--

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I think everyone mentioned it,

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but you find out where you
might be wrong yourself, right?

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Like, if you have the freedom to speak

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and someone has the
freedom to respond,

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you have the capacity
to, like, learn, right?

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- [Julie] Yes, this seemed clear.

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But then why was free speech
becoming such a subject

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of controversy on college
campuses all around the country?

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[loud explosion]
[crowd yelling]

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- [Reporter] Campus locked down as

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more than a thousand people
rallied against the appearance

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of a controversial editor from
Breitbart, Milo Yiannopoulis.

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- [Julie] And controversies
were springing up

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all around me in
western Massachusetts.

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[loping jazz bass]

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At Mount Holyoke College,
students found out their

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chief of campus police
had liked a Trump tweet

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supporting the border wall.

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Some students complained
it made them feel unsafe,

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even though the chief had liked
the tweet before being hired

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at Mount Holyoke.

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The chief apologized,
saying he would enroll

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in a training program.

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Two months later, he was gone.

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At another local college,
there was an attack

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on a white basketball
player for braiding her hair

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into cornrows.

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[loping jazz bass]

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Then there was the Halloween
party at Hampshire College,

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where a local Afrobeat
band called Shokazoba

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was supposed to play.

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- So Hampshire Halloween
is a fantastic event.

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It's humongous.

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It's, like, one of the
best parties in the valley.

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The week of the event,
everything seemed to be going fine,

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promotions and inviting people,

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and tons of people were going.

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And somebody made a comment,

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"Leave it to Hampshire College

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"to hire an all-white Afrobeat band."

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Somebody started to post
comments about our band

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as being white and white-passing,

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and how inappropriate it is

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for white and white-passing
people to participate

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in African art forms
and how it's just,

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y'know, it's plain wrong.

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And they said things about
our singer of our band

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that were very hurtful to her

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as a light-skinned
African American woman,

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and she commented, "Please
don't say these things.

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"This is very hurtful to me.

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"I've been dealing with this
sensitive issue my whole life.

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"So, if you could
please just back off."

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And then instead of backing
off and respecting her wishes,

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they turned it up and started
to say really nasty things

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like expletives and
threats of violence.

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The next day, I got an email
from the hype committee,

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canceling our performance.

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For the sake of argument, okay,

00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.200
people with light-colored
skin can't participate

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in anything coming out of
the African continent at all.

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Well, aren't we all as
humans ancestrally African

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to begin with?

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Aren't all instruments,

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haven't they all evolved
from African instruments?

00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:52.080
And hasn't all music and all
art evolved from African art?

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So what can we do?

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Are we not allowed to play jazz?

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Are we not allowed to
play rock and roll?

00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.400
- [Julie] The idea that the band

00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:01.520
was stealing Black culture reminded me

00:12:01.520 --> 00:12:04.200
of Sam's classmates
telling him to write

00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:05.440
"only what he knows."

00:12:07.160 --> 00:12:10.440
Isn't there a difference
between cultural appropriation

00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.200
and cultural appreciation?

00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:18.200
- The history of art is the
history of appropriation.

00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.160
There's no such thing
as not taking from it.

00:12:22.160 --> 00:12:26.240
You can take Native American
Kwakiutl art

00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.480
and get someone to point out to you

00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.520
that actually it came
across the Bering Straits,

00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:33.680
and actually
it's the same patterns

00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:37.080
that you find in
prehistoric Asian art.

00:12:38.640 --> 00:12:40.760
- [Julie] As a proud
card-carrying liberal,

00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:43.760
I was thinking how strange this was.

00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.400
I mean, conservatives
being the good guys,

00:12:46.400 --> 00:12:48.800
noble defenders of free speech,

00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:51.560
while liberals hate on
white basketball players

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:54.720
wearing braids and Afrobeat bands.

00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.040
Suddenly, it seemed like
everyone was weighing in

00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:59.360
on free speech and cancel culture.

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[glass shattering]
Everyone.

00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:05.360
- I don't agree that you,
when you become students

00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:07.280
at colleges, have to be

00:13:07.280 --> 00:13:10.000
coddled and protected from
different points of view.

00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:15.360
- I don't want you to
be safe ideologically.

00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:19.920
I don't want you to
be safe emotionally.

00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:21.440
I want you to be strong.

00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:24.640
That's different.

00:13:24.640 --> 00:13:28.200
I'm not going to pave
the jungle for you.

00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.200
Put on some boots and learn
how to deal with adversity.

00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.880
- [Julie] College
administrators had to figure out

00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:38.920
whether to intervene.

00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:42.440
I had just read Safe Enough
Spaces, a book by Michael Roth,

00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:44.480
President of Wesleyan University.

00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.840
This was someone I had to talk to.

00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.680
- Here in the office a
few years ago, a group

00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:53.280
of African American students
came to see me, very offended

00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:55.400
that there was an
affirmative action bake sale

00:13:55.400 --> 00:13:58.080
in the Usdan University Center.

00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.080
It was a national thing that
conservative websites created,

00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.960
and some students here took
it up, and when they did

00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.080
they said, "If you're
African American,

00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.880
"it only cost 50 cents
for that cupcake.

00:14:09.880 --> 00:14:11.200
"If you're white, it's a dollar."

00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.080
And the students came to
see me, they were outraged,

00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.840
as well they should have
been, and they said,

00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.200
"We want you to stop those people."

00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:18.400
I said, well, "I'm sorry.

00:14:18.400 --> 00:14:20.760
"I know you're outraged,
and I do think it's racist."

00:14:20.760 --> 00:14:22.840
And actually, the people doing
it were students of color.

00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.160
They complicated it a little bit.

00:14:24.160 --> 00:14:25.200
I said, "You should talk to them,

00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:27.760
"you should argue with
them, but I don't think this

00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:29.720
"is the kind of thing where
I have to protect you from

00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:30.560
"that bake sale.

00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:31.400
"It's there.

00:14:31.400 --> 00:14:32.240
"It's political theater.

00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.200
"That's what it is.

00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:35.560
"It's political theater.

00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:36.800
"Figure out how to talk to them."

00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:39.200
- But the reality of the
situation is that students need

00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.000
to be prepared to face
them in the real world.

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.760
And in the real world nobody
cares about your feelings,

00:14:44.760 --> 00:14:46.720
nobody's going to coddle you.

00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:49.160
What if your employer
has this odious opinion

00:14:49.160 --> 00:14:50.200
that you disagree with?

00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:51.040
Can you quit?

00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:51.840
Maybe not.

00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.400
Maybe your financial
situation isn't that way.

00:14:54.400 --> 00:14:56.560
So even if you are
uncomfortable in a classroom,

00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:58.960
you have to deal with these opinions,

00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.640
and it will actually
strengthen your position.

00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:04.720
- My view has
always been that, y'know,

00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.560
are people upset in my classes?

00:15:06.560 --> 00:15:07.760
I hope so.

00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:09.280
Otherwise, I'm not doing my job.

00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:10.920
I hope they're
intellectually challenged,

00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:14.000
I hope that they're
confronted with ideas

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.400
that they haven't been
confronted with before

00:15:15.400 --> 00:15:17.720
and haven't been forced
to deal with things.

00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:19.240
And whether that causes some kind

00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:20.560
of intellectual dissonance,

00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:23.160
that is exactly what
universities should do.

00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:26.080
But I think universities, in some way,

00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.600
have gone the other direction on this

00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.600
in that some people
will not say things

00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.480
because they feel afraid that
what they're gonna say is,

00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.720
y'know, it's gonna be
shut down as being racist.

00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.600
- [Julie] In 2019, President
Trump signed an executive order

00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.160
on campus free speech.

00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.600
- [Reporter 2] President Trump
signing an executive order

00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:48.960
on campus free speech.

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.000
Those student activists there
have said that they believe

00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.600
that it's been
silenced on campus.

00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:57.440
It's unclear exactly how this
will be enforced in colleges

00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.360
around the country.

00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.120
- So you can't have a democracy
without freedom of speech.

00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.400
On the other hand, you can't
have a society of any kind

00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:08.720
without some kind of
regulation of speech.

00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.440
You can't have hospitals
with doctors breaking out

00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:14.320
into political orations in the middle

00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.640
of sensitive surgeries.

00:16:16.640 --> 00:16:21.480
Likewise, in the academy,
you can't have learning

00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.880
without certain
professional standards.

00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:28.160
So an engineering
professor who speaks out

00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:31.640
against Donald Trump
in an engineering class

00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:34.120
maybe can do that once.

00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.080
But if you do it over and over again,

00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:40.200
even the American Association
of University Professors,

00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.240
an organization whose job
is to protect the rights

00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.640
of academics,
even the AAUP would admit

00:16:47.640 --> 00:16:51.200
that violates the spirit
of academic freedom.

00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.080
So, there's something
guiding academic freedom

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.080
which is not really democracy.

00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:57.760
It's the production of knowledge.

00:16:57.760 --> 00:16:59.000
It's education.

00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.680
- [Reporter 3] At Yale
University, a faculty member

00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:05.760
is yelled at by students.

00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:13.800
- [Reporter 3] The reason?

00:17:13.800 --> 00:17:16.680
His wife, also a Yale instructor,

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.560
had suggested students should be free

00:17:19.560 --> 00:17:23.160
to wear any Halloween
costume they choose,

00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.520
even if slightly offensive.

00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:27.120
- [Julie] At Middlebury College,

00:17:27.120 --> 00:17:30.160
over 100 students
protested the appearance

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.840
of Charles Murray, a political
scientist who was invited

00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:35.520
to speak at the student center.

00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.280
- [Protestors] Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:39.040
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:41.080
Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:43.160
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.160
Charles Murray, go away!

00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.240
Racist, sexist, anti-gay!

00:17:48.520 --> 00:17:50.880
- [Julie] Liberal students
at Middlebury were triggered

00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.000
by Murray's racist reputation,
but closer to home,

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.200
another controversy erupted at UMass.

00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.240
This time, it was the left wing
who wanted freedom of speech

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.440
and conservatives
wanting to cancel it.

00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.280
- There was an event that was
scheduled to occur on May 4th

00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:11.600
at UMass, and it was
called "Not Backing Down:

00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:14.840
Israel, Free Speech & the
Battle for Palestinian Rights."

00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:18.240
It was organized by the
Media Education Foundation

00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.960
and its founder, Sut Jhally,

00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:21.640
and it was going to feature speakers

00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.800
including Linda Sarsour,
renowned Palestinian activist,

00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:29.280
Mark Lamont Hill,
commentator and a professor

00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:30.760
and an activist himself.

00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:33.800
- What really made the
event really, you know,

00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:36.320
to take off was the threat by someone

00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:38.320
to stop it taking place.

00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:40.840
That's actually when we
realized we were onto something.

00:18:40.840 --> 00:18:45.360
When someone is so threatened
by having one little

00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:48.480
event at a university
that actually dares

00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:51.080
to speak about the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict

00:18:51.080 --> 00:18:52.720
in a different way,

00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.240
and the threat is
immediately a legal threat,

00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.560
that tells you something
about how important the

00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:01.920
suppression of free speech
is to make sure

00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.040
that certain viewpoints are not heard.

00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:07.040
- We will not back down,
we will not be silenced,

00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:09.480
we will not be intimidated,
we will continue

00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:10.720
to speak truth to power.

00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.880
- And I was like, what is this?

00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.880
Like, not backing down,
it sounds very forceful.

00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.680
It sounds a little aggressive.

00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.280
So I was like, what's
happening on this campus?

00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:25.040
- One of the attempted
criticisms of the event was,

00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:28.960
well, there's no one presenting
the Israeli perspective.

00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:30.760
The event wasn't billed as a debate.

00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:33.920
The event was billed as
an educational opportunity

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.160
to hear from people who had
experienced the censorship

00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.280
that many people who
are in the movement

00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.440
for Palestinian rights experience.

00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.080
- Was there any threat
of physical harm?

00:19:44.080 --> 00:19:48.320
Of course not, but people
were, if they felt threatened,

00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:51.920
is because this worldview
that they had been inculcated

00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:56.080
with about Israel, there was
now suddenly an alternative

00:19:56.080 --> 00:19:59.000
viewpoint that people
were paying attention to.

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.760
And of course the
attempt to suppress it,

00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:03.800
the attempt totally backfired,

00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:06.080
because it gave so
much more publicity.

00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.600
So, they were threatened
by multiple voices.

00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:13.040
They were threatened
that their monopoly

00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.840
on this perspective
was gonna be destroyed.

00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:19.880
- [Julie] While there was
no threat of physical harm

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:24.120
from the event at UMass,
what about emotional harm?

00:20:25.800 --> 00:20:28.800
[loping jazz bass]

00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:35.120
- I know that it's all
about academic freedom.

00:20:35.120 --> 00:20:39.080
Free speech, talking about
Israel, talking about Palestine,

00:20:39.080 --> 00:20:40.240
talking about human rights,

00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.200
like, these are things
that we should talk about.

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.440
And I'm all for talking
about them in open dialogue,

00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.200
in real conversation, in a place

00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.920
where you're gonna have
discourse that's nuanced

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.960
and not just straight,
like, one-sided bias.

00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.320
I felt unsafe sitting in
the room during the panel.

00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:02.200
When I walked out of that event,

00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.360
I didn't have a panic attack
like my friend did, actually.

00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:08.160
I needed to be away
from all those people.

00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.200
I, like, could not be there anymore,

00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.880
and then I needed to just go cry,

00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:14.760
because I needed, like,
time to like process

00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:18.200
what I had just heard and,
like, really, like, understand

00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:19.280
what was happening.

00:21:19.280 --> 00:21:21.280
It wasn't just opposition.

00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:22.800
It was hate.

00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:27.960
- [Julie] Hate.

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.360
You hear about hate speech a lot.

00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:32.320
But what is it exactly,

00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:34.000
and who gets to define it?

00:21:36.080 --> 00:21:38.720
- If we're trying
to define free speech,

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.400
free speech is something
that should lead to inclusion

00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.920
and allowing people to, like, relish

00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.600
in, like, each other's ideas.

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:51.560
And hate speech quite
literally goes against that,

00:21:51.560 --> 00:21:54.520
because you're alienating someone.

00:21:54.520 --> 00:21:57.480
You're attacking someone's beliefs.

00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.040
- Point of free
speech is to disagree.

00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:05.560
If you look at, I dunno,
communist regimes

00:22:05.560 --> 00:22:09.040
which don't allow free
speech, the reason behind that

00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:12.400
is for citizens to agree
with the government,

00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.040
and I think it's okay to be,
like, different and diverse

00:22:16.040 --> 00:22:18.800
and not agree with
other people's opinions.

00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:22.760
With hate speech, although
it might not be welcomed,

00:22:22.760 --> 00:22:25.040
it's still a form of free speech,

00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:28.720
and I think it still
should be allowed.

00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.400
- But hate speech is,
like, quite literally,

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:33.600
like, putting down another group.

00:22:33.600 --> 00:22:37.120
Like, I think that goes
more than, "Oh yeah,

00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:38.480
"we just aren disagreeing."

00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.680
'Cause, like, let's say
someone calls me the N word,

00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:46.360
like, that's not oh, like
we're in disagreement.

00:22:46.360 --> 00:22:48.800
That's, like, you're
directly attacking me.

00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:51.560
Like, you're directly
attacking my identity.

00:22:51.560 --> 00:22:53.680
- Free speech is equalizing,

00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:55.600
and that's why
it's so important,

00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:58.040
because it shows
both sides of the story.

00:22:58.040 --> 00:22:59.880
What does hate speech accomplish?

00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:01.120
What is it furthering?

00:23:01.120 --> 00:23:02.400
What is it doing?

00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.480
How is it making the
world a better place?

00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:09.600
To engage in tools of oppression,
like saying the N word

00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:13.520
or attacking someone for
their personal identity

00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:16.160
or to dehumanize or demean someone,

00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:17.480
you're not furthering the dialogue.

00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:18.400
You're not accomplishing anything.

00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.880
You're not helping anyone.

00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.560
Free speech is supposed
to open up doors,

00:23:24.560 --> 00:23:26.520
and it's not supposed to close them.

00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:29.480
- Difficulty with hate speech
is someone has to define it,

00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:31.600
because whoever has the
power to decide that,

00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:34.600
in some sense,
has the power to decide

00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:36.560
what thought is perpetuated.

00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:38.240
I don't know if it's
always as simple as saying,

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.840
"Oh well, hate speech
shouldn't be allowed

00:23:41.840 --> 00:23:44.440
"and free speech should,"
because, like, who defines that?

00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:47.880
- [Julie] But if it's so hard
to figure out what counts

00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.040
as hate speech,
how can we ever figure out

00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:53.600
what to do about it?

00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:56.280
- When we began the western
Massachusetts office,

00:23:56.280 --> 00:23:58.880
when we opened the western
Massachusetts office

00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:03.880
of the American Civil
Liberties Union in 1987,

00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.960
the Republican Club at the
University of Massachusetts,

00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:12.960
along with Students for
America, invited Paul Cameron

00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:17.040
to the UMass campus
during Gay Pride Week.

00:24:19.320 --> 00:24:24.080
Paul Cameron was the leading
anti-gay speaker and advocate

00:24:24.080 --> 00:24:27.960
in the United States at that
time, and received a call

00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.360
from these groups,
Students for America

00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:34.240
and the Republican Club at
UMass, and they explained

00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.560
that their free speech rights
were being infringed upon

00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:39.440
because the university
was preventing them

00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.200
from having Paul
Cameron come and speak

00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:43.640
during Gay Pride Week.

00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:49.040
Now, the excuse that
the university gave

00:24:49.040 --> 00:24:51.000
to the Republican Club

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.680
and the other conservative
organization was

00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:57.560
that they needed to pay
for their own security.

00:24:58.600 --> 00:25:01.320
And I think it was really clear,

00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:03.480
from a First Amendment point of view,

00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.480
he should be on the campus
if he has been invited

00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:09.320
by a recognized student organization,

00:25:09.320 --> 00:25:11.240
and any other recognized
student organization

00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.840
could have virtually any
other speaker they wanted.

00:25:13.840 --> 00:25:18.280
So, why can the university
decide who is allowed

00:25:18.280 --> 00:25:22.240
to speak on campus and make a
content-based determination?

00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:29.080
What happened as a result
of our intervention,

00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:31.880
there was the largest
gay rights demonstration

00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.880
in the history of western
Massachusetts, which greeted him.

00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.000
There were editorials
and other expression

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.440
in the UMass Collegian
saying, "You are not a person

00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.720
"who is really welcome here,
but you can speak here."

00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.640
There were various kinds of
counseling sessions set up

00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.160
for those persons who were
going to be offended and hurt

00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.320
or put in some kind of
psychological distress

00:25:59.320 --> 00:26:01.840
because of his being on campus.

00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:06.440
There were 140 men who
went to hear his talk

00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:08.440
and wanted to ask him questions

00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:10.680
that his supporters would not.

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.680
And they asked really
difficult questions

00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.080
and they made him look like a
fool, and they made him look,

00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:18.200
as I understand it, as a hater,

00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:23.200
because he was there espousing
a position that persons

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:27.680
with AIDS and actually anyone
with HIV should be quarantined

00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.200
from the rest of society.

00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:34.760
That event at UMass was galvanizing

00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:37.520
for the LGBTQ community here
in western Massachusetts,

00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:39.760
and it wouldn't have happened
if he had been censored

00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:41.960
and prevented from
being on the campus.

00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.040
And I tell that story

00:26:44.040 --> 00:26:47.680
because I think it does
represent the paradigm about

00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.600
how bad speech and racist
speech and evil speech

00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:53.200
and homophobic speech can
be met with righteous speech

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:55.480
and good speech and more
speech and more speech

00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.560
and more speech until
the hatred is wrung out.

00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:00.960
And good speech works.

00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.120
Does this paradigm
work every time? No.

00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:06.320
Does it work most of the
time in the United States?

00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:07.120
Yes.

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:11.040
- [Julie] In an attempt to
build a sense of community,

00:27:11.040 --> 00:27:14.240
some colleges began using
a public discussion app

00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.720
called Fizz.

00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:18.600
- The Fizz app has come to campus.

00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:22.240
And so this app is effectively
an anonymous platform

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.040
where people are free to
share their mind,

00:27:24.040 --> 00:27:28.480
and then as a user you're
able to comment, respond,

00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.120
react positively or negatively
with, like, an up vote

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:34.760
or a down vote, for example.

00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:36.520
And it's definitely led to some

00:27:36.520 --> 00:27:39.120
very controversial
cases where people are

00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:42.480
sharing ideas in ways, in forms,

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:47.480
that could be considered
hurtful to some specific people

00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:50.320
and also to groups as a whole.

00:27:50.320 --> 00:27:52.800
- Well, personally,
I hate the app.

00:27:52.800 --> 00:27:56.560
I think it is so interesting

00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:00.080
because it has revealed a lot
of things about the community,

00:28:00.080 --> 00:28:02.960
and so now on this app people
have the freedom to say things

00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.160
and I think it's taken
free speech to a new level.

00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.000
It's really dangerous
when people aren't able

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.760
to, like, put a face to the
name or, like, a name to

00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.120
the comment that they're saying.

00:28:13.120 --> 00:28:17.200
- I personally think that
apps like Fizz that center

00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:21.160
around anonymity are
a recipe for disaster,

00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:24.640
because you're able to hide
behind a screen instead

00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.320
of owning up to your words.

00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:27.720
And isn't that the point

00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:30.400
of having opinions, to be able to say,

00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.080
"This is what I believe,
and I'm not ashamed of it"?

00:28:34.120 --> 00:28:35.600
- I do think that Fizz is necessary,

00:28:35.600 --> 00:28:39.320
because it allows
a platform for students

00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:42.680
to share their
actual and real opinions

00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.920
without fearing being
slandered for them

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:50.440
or feeling this societal
pressure to think a certain way

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.080
or feel a certain way.

00:28:52.080 --> 00:28:57.080
- But my thing with Fizz is
that, like, you're just hiding.

00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:59.760
Like, you're not taking
accountability for your words.

00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:02.440
Like, you're saying something knowing

00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:04.000
that it's gonna have an impact

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.920
but, like, it's just out there now

00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:10.960
and, like, you don't have to
face any type of repercussion

00:29:11.120 --> 00:29:14.320
for, like, the harm that you're doing.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.840
- [Julie] So the app
was used so people

00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.800
could speak their minds
without being canceled,

00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:22.280
but is it so bad to be canceled?

00:29:22.280 --> 00:29:23.640
What does it feel like?

00:29:24.760 --> 00:29:27.840
- So, I've actually,
like, been canceled, like,

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:29.000
several times at this school.

00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.640
So, one of the times,
it was on Halloween.

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.280
One of my Asian friends,
he gave me this, like,

00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:40.000
baby face mask to wear,

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.920
sort of like this, like, crying baby.

00:29:42.920 --> 00:29:46.080
And so I go to this party, and
then two people go up to me

00:29:46.080 --> 00:29:49.360
and they're like, "You're
offending all my Asian friends.

00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:51.640
"You're being racist towards Asians."

00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.000
My Asian friends were all confused.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.200
They're like, "What?

00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:56.800
"How is he being racist?
Like, what is happening?"

00:29:56.800 --> 00:29:59.480
So I was like, "No, I'm not
gonna, like, take off the mask.

00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.520
"Like, I have my own right.

00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:02.840
"Like, this is Halloween.

00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:04.720
"I get to choose my own costume.

00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.080
"I'm not being racist."

00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:08.840
Like, the whole party group
around me, like, started turning

00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:12.440
against me until like they all
sort of, like, kicked me out.

00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:14.840
[door slamming]

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.120
- [Julie] Then an event at
Smith College got me thinking

00:30:18.120 --> 00:30:21.080
about free speech and
the role of the press.

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.520
Should students be able to
place conditions on reporters,

00:30:25.520 --> 00:30:26.840
or even cancel them?

00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:30.800
- So, the Black Lives Matter
issue at Smith was happening

00:30:30.800 --> 00:30:32.800
all over college
campuses at that time.

00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.520
So what Smith did was they
decided to have this protest

00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:40.880
and then say, "We don't
want the press to come

00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.840
"unless they can state
what side they're on,"

00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:45.720
what you stood for.

00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:49.600
I got in, but I had said very
clearly to the PR person,

00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:51.440
at that person, "I'm not doing that.

00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.720
"I refuse to state what side
I'm on at all, but I'm here,

00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:57.800
"and I will cover this event."

00:30:57.800 --> 00:31:00.360
There were press then
that were not allowed in,

00:31:00.360 --> 00:31:02.320
like MassLive and The Republican,

00:31:02.320 --> 00:31:04.960
and some other people
were not allowed in.

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:09.960
I think it's really
important for neutrality to

00:31:11.360 --> 00:31:13.280
be a part of what we do.

00:31:13.280 --> 00:31:17.520
To declare what side we're on is

00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:21.120
taking away the trust, I feel like,

00:31:21.120 --> 00:31:24.080
that we're asking our
communities to have in us.

00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:27.040
And I'm just not sure
they thought that through,

00:31:27.040 --> 00:31:31.120
the students thought through
what they really want

00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:34.520
out of the media, and
what is important to them

00:31:34.520 --> 00:31:35.840
in terms of their values.

00:31:35.840 --> 00:31:37.280
And they have every right

00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:39.760
to hold us accountable, absolutely,

00:31:39.760 --> 00:31:42.160
and to ask those really,
really hard questions.

00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.080
And we have made mistakes,

00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:45.440
there is no doubt.

00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:48.320
But, I think asking us to let go

00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:51.840
of neutrality is a huge mistake.

00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:55.920
It's not that I don't have
opinions or that I don't,

00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:59.320
in my living room,
take a stand on something,

00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:03.760
or that I don't believe in
something being wrong or right.

00:32:03.760 --> 00:32:07.400
It's that I am committed to
telling both sides of something.

00:32:08.280 --> 00:32:10.800
- [Julie] One thing
I still didn't get--

00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:12.920
why is the topic of cancel culture

00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:15.120
so pervasive now?

00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:16.680
It's everywhere.

00:32:17.800 --> 00:32:21.400
Psychologist Jonathan
Haidt of NYU tells us

00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.480
that many college kids today
have been overprotected

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.960
by helicopter parents.

00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.640
Kids have been shielded
from any challenges,

00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.080
and never learned to be resilient,

00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:34.560
so anything they disagree
with must be wrong

00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:36.400
and they have the right to cancel it.

00:32:37.320 --> 00:32:39.560
Everyone I knew was reading his book,

00:32:39.560 --> 00:32:41.520
The Coddling of the American Mind.

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.120
- We took this essential
period of childhood from

00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:48.920
about 8 to 12, when
kids throughout history

00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:53.080
have practiced independence,
have gotten into adventures,

00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:55.760
have made rafts and floated
down the Mississippi River.

00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:58.000
We took that period and
said, "You don't get

00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.600
"to practice independence
until it's too late,"

00:32:59.600 --> 00:33:01.240
until that period is over.

00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:03.760
Now, a couple years
before you go to college,

00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:06.320
now you can go outside.
"Oh okay, go off to college,"

00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:07.680
and a lot of them are not ready.

00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.800
They're just not used
to being independent.

00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:12.320
When they get to college,
they need more help.

00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:14.400
They're asking adults for more help.

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.320
"Protect me from this,

00:33:15.320 --> 00:33:18.480
"punish him for saying that,
protect me from that book."

00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.800
- [Julie] And there's another
basic fact of modern life

00:33:20.800 --> 00:33:24.880
that makes it easy to
cancel people: social media.

00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:26.800
- I think what I'm
trying to add here is,

00:33:26.800 --> 00:33:31.600
as a social psychologist,
I study morality and politics,

00:33:31.600 --> 00:33:35.000
and I've become a big fan

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.000
of the philosopher John
Stuart Mill, who said,

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.680
"He who knows only his own side

00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.160
"of the case knows little of that."

00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.400
That is, in order to
really understand anything,

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.200
we have to look at it from
multiple perspectives.

00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.920
We have to have different
viewpoints pushing

00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:49.080
against each other.

00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:50.920
That's what we do in universities,

00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:54.280
that's what we've always done
in my career as a professor

00:33:54.280 --> 00:33:58.240
until around 2014, 2015,
and all of a sudden

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:01.040
it became much more
hazardous to question.

00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:04.840
If you questioned, if you
even tweeted about a study

00:34:04.840 --> 00:34:08.160
that challenged the received
wisdom on race, gender,

00:34:08.160 --> 00:34:11.440
transgender, there were a
couple of sacred issues,

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.880
if you even suggested that
there was another side,

00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.800
huge social sanctions would
rain down on you on Twitter

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.440
and other platforms.

00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:20.840
And here's the key thing.

00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.480
When people feel even a
little bit of intimidation,

00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:25.280
when they think, "If I speak up,

00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.920
"terrible things are gonna
happen to me of unknown size."

00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:29.320
That could be nothing.

00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.640
It could be a thousand tweets.

00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.280
It's that little bit of intimidation,

00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.880
that's what makes people go silent.

00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.360
- The class I teach at
Smith is formally called

00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.080
"White Supremacy
in the Age of Trump,"

00:34:44.080 --> 00:34:48.160
and within that is buried
a strong module called

00:34:48.160 --> 00:34:50.400
"Calling In the Calling Out Culture."

00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:51.720
And I started this work

00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:54.080
about six years ago when I noticed

00:34:54.080 --> 00:34:58.800
how unbelievably mean
people were on social media,

00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.640
and I'm sure people are
saying things online

00:35:01.640 --> 00:35:05.840
that they would not say
to people to their face.

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:09.320
I started asking young
people, "What's going on?

00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:13.200
"Do y'all talk like
this all the time?"

00:35:13.200 --> 00:35:15.200
And a young woman named Marissa said,

00:35:15.200 --> 00:35:17.160
"Oh, you mean the call-out culture?"

00:35:18.080 --> 00:35:20.960
- The fact that you can
send messages, content,

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.440
whatever it might be,
instantaneously, is something

00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.320
that's changing the way
that we have conversations

00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.640
with one another in
a very obvious sense.

00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:35.680
A lot of the time, I feel
afraid to say what I'm thinking,

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:39.800
afraid to, even if it's
not to take a stand

00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:42.880
in class on a particular
part of a text,

00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.680
whatever it might be,
just to ask a question

00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:48.800
so that we're all kind
of challenging ourselves

00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:51.680
to think a little bit differently,

00:35:51.680 --> 00:35:55.840
because I'm afraid of what
will happen in the classroom

00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.640
and I know that it won't
stay in the classroom.

00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:01.120
- It feels very hard for you,

00:36:01.120 --> 00:36:02.800
'cause you don't wanna end
up on a TikTok somewhere

00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.800
where it's like,
"That kid got expelled

00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:08.080
"for, like, saying, like,
anti- or transphobic things,"

00:36:08.080 --> 00:36:09.320
when really they were just curious

00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:10.240
and they were just like--

00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:11.960
- Or they didn't know.

00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:13.400
- Yeah, "I don't
understand what this is."

00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:16.680
- [Julie] So are coddled students

00:36:16.680 --> 00:36:19.320
and the dominant social
media the only reasons

00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:20.760
for cancel culture?

00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.960
Or could there be another factor--

00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:27.720
a proper respect for
historically oppressed groups?

00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.880
Maybe cancel culture
is just an attempt

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:32.840
to right the wrongs of history.

00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.280
[upbeat funk music]

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.120
- Many smart students,
especially in the humanities

00:36:46.120 --> 00:36:50.560
and social sciences, have
realized that free speech talk

00:36:50.560 --> 00:36:53.240
is often a cover to protect
people with privilege,

00:36:53.240 --> 00:36:54.880
and they realize this
because they grew up

00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.120
after Citizens United.

00:36:57.120 --> 00:37:00.080
They grew up in a world in
which the Supreme Court,

00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:03.560
by the narrowest of margins,
justified the use of money

00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:04.960
to control politics.

00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.720
We all knew that money
influenced politics,

00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:09.920
but they said, "Go for it."

00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.440
Free speech means if you have money,

00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:15.600
you can spend as much
money as you want

00:37:15.600 --> 00:37:17.280
to get your guy elected.

00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:19.640
And our students grew up realizing

00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:24.120
that this was a sham, that
power and amplification

00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:26.920
of speech matters a great deal.

00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:29.400
And so, some people
don't get to be heard.

00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.040
They have "freedom of speech,"

00:37:31.040 --> 00:37:32.840
but they actually have no power.

00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:34.440
They have no amplification.

00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.600
- There's a changing demographic
in our classrooms, right,

00:37:37.600 --> 00:37:42.400
so that it used to be that
when you talked about things

00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.880
that impacted Black people,
you were talking about it

00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.840
as sort of a
hypothetical, right?

00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:50.840
[loping jazz bass]

00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:58.720
- Black students express
some of the greatest concern

00:37:58.720 --> 00:38:02.320
in terms of
ability to speak freely,

00:38:03.320 --> 00:38:07.120
and that's sometimes
contrary, I think,

00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:11.520
to the narrative that
you might hear on,

00:38:11.520 --> 00:38:13.800
let's say Fox News.

00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:18.160
There are greater numbers
of students of color,

00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:23.160
of students from poor communities
who are coming to campus,

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.880
and that that real need and desire

00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:32.720
to welcome those students,
which is critically important,

00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:36.640
has created, in some cases,
a backlash.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.320
- [Julie] Hate mail sent to
Black students?

00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.640
What was making white people so angry?

00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:48.360
Jesse Rhodes, a UMass
political scientist, says,

00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:50.600
"A broad conclusion of our findings

00:38:50.600 --> 00:38:53.360
"is that a significant
fraction of Americans,

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:56.920
"particularly native whites,
are feeling very anxious

00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:00.200
"and uncertain about demographic
and political changes

00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:01.720
"in the United States."

00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:07.200
Maybe that's why students
want to cancel speech.

00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:09.240
Many of them grew up in
a world where they had

00:39:09.240 --> 00:39:12.040
to watch violence
done to their people.

00:39:12.040 --> 00:39:14.680
Black students watched George Floyd,

00:39:14.680 --> 00:39:18.400
with a knee on his neck,
gasping for air.

00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:21.840
Gay students watched a hundred
people machine gunned down

00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:23.880
at a nightclub in Florida.

00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.960
Women watched women's rights
abandoned in the courts

00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:31.320
just as the legal door
was being slammed shut

00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.680
on affirmative action
and Black history.

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.560
So maybe cancel culture's
about that too,

00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.800
about fairness in the future

00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:46.760
and the hope to create a world
where everyone is included.

00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:48.440
[pensive instrumental music]

00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:51.720
But, how do you make a
university safe for everyone?

00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:57.680
Some thought the solution
was to create safe spaces

00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:01.000
and preface certain
topics with warnings.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:02.280
Trigger warnings.

00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:05.920
- Trigger warnings,
I don't use the word,

00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.160
but I think it's perfectly
appropriate, actually,

00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:11.760
to give students a heads up.

00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.840
I teach a course on
film and philosophy,

00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:17.320
and at the beginning
of the class, I say,

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:19.720
"Tonight, we're gonna watch a
film about the extermination

00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:23.160
"of the Jews in Europe, and
it is unbelievably brutal.

00:40:23.160 --> 00:40:26.440
"It is just 30 minutes, and
it'll tear your guts out.

00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:28.640
"I'm sorry, but it's
a very important film.

00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:31.000
"Next week, we have a
film about child abuse.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.560
"The following week we
have a film about a guy

00:40:32.560 --> 00:40:34.160
"who's convicted of
murder inappropriately,

00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:35.840
"and then the following week

00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:38.480
"a film about mass
killings in Indonesia."

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:40.880
And I say to them as
a kind of warning,

00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:44.480
and I make it a little
bit of a joke, I say,

00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.400
"Have a break now.

00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:47.920
"This is not for everybody.

00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.320
"I actually expect these
films to make you wanna cry,

00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:53.400
"make you sick to your
stomach at times.

00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.720
"And not everybody
wants to learn that way,

00:40:55.720 --> 00:40:57.240
"and there's a break, you can leave,

00:40:57.240 --> 00:40:58.840
"no hard feelings."

00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:00.520
And I say, "If you don't like
this thing, there are a lot

00:41:00.520 --> 00:41:02.320
"of other courses in
the university for you.

00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:04.880
"And if you really like
this stuff, get some help."

00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:05.920
- And they were talking about

00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:08.240
what they call now trigger
warnings, that you have to

00:41:08.240 --> 00:41:11.040
sort of look at all the
content that you're teaching

00:41:11.040 --> 00:41:13.640
and figure out what possibly
could offend anybody

00:41:13.640 --> 00:41:16.080
and warn them that they
might be offended.

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:20.000
And I just thought like, I
wanna offend people, right?

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.200
I'm a philosophy professor.

00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:23.800
I want them to deal
with difficult ideas.

00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.400
Socrates, who's the founder of
philosophy, was put to death

00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:31.600
by the citizens of Athens
because he upset them,

00:41:31.600 --> 00:41:34.240
and he upset them because
he was doing what he wanted

00:41:34.240 --> 00:41:36.920
to do, and so he refused,
actually, to go into exile,

00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.920
and that's why he died because
he said, "This is my job.

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.720
"I'm here to confront your opinions

00:41:42.720 --> 00:41:44.640
"and make you think
about what you're doing."

00:41:44.640 --> 00:41:46.000
- I love to speak on that.

00:41:47.200 --> 00:41:50.000
As somebody with crippling PTSD,

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.480
I can say trigger warnings
ignite two different

00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:54.160
responses out of me.

00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:55.640
Sometimes when I
hear trigger warnings

00:41:55.640 --> 00:41:58.640
it's very anxiety-provoking
knowing that I will be exposed

00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:00.320
to possibly triggering content,

00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.680
and just that notion can alert
my nervous system in ways

00:42:03.680 --> 00:42:05.760
that are so debilitating.

00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.600
But also, too, trigger
warnings sometimes for me

00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:11.320
feel like teachers giving me consent,

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:16.240
it's giving me the opportunity
to protect myself in ways

00:42:16.240 --> 00:42:18.320
that I might not have
if I wasn't warranted

00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:19.960
that trigger warning.

00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.600
- [Julie] Northampton,
Massachusetts, where I live,

00:42:23.600 --> 00:42:24.560
might very well have been

00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:27.000
where trigger warnings were invented.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.240
Its rock-solid progressive
values go way back.

00:42:31.080 --> 00:42:32.800
Northampton was a central station

00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.280
on the Underground Railroad,

00:42:35.160 --> 00:42:38.880
[languid rock music]

00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:42.680
an anti-slavery hub where
abolitionist Sojourner Truth

00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:43.760
lived and worked.

00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.080
The area has two all-women's colleges

00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:50.360
where activists Betty Friedan

00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:52.280
and Gloria Steinem went to school,

00:42:53.640 --> 00:42:55.320
and Massachusetts was the first state

00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:58.000
to allow same-sex marriages.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:42:59.480
All good stuff.

00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:01.920
But sometimes people around here

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.120
can get a little self-righteous.

00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:09.040
One day, as I was walking
downtown, a woman approached

00:43:09.040 --> 00:43:12.280
and asked me to turn in my
five-year-old's water pistol

00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:13.520
for a coloring book.

00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:19.840
Then at a potluck, I was told
not to say the word "husband."

00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:22.640
I should say "partner" instead.

00:43:23.600 --> 00:43:26.120
Recently, a job offer
for a guy running

00:43:26.120 --> 00:43:29.160
for school superintendent
was rescinded

00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:32.680
after he addressed two
committee members as "ladies."

00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:35.520
It all seemed a little extreme,

00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:40.760
but talking to Elizabeth
Pryor, professor of history

00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.320
at Smith College, helped
me see how certain words

00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.440
can have more power than we intend.

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.040
- Words matter.

00:43:50.040 --> 00:43:52.960
One word that my students--
and I think this word

00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:57.200
in particular has caused a
lot of uproar around people,

00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.760
which is the word "crazy."

00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:04.120
So, my students at Smith who
are very interested in issues

00:44:04.120 --> 00:44:08.480
of disability really
consider the word "crazy"

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:12.200
a slur about mental illness, right?

00:44:15.080 --> 00:44:17.960
So, I remember I was sitting
in a class with students

00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.920
and I was like, "I saw this
crazy movie the other day."

00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.120
And they were like, "Mm-mm.

00:44:23.120 --> 00:44:24.040
"Mm-mm-mm."

00:44:24.040 --> 00:44:26.480
I was like, "Wait, what? No,
I'm saying it in a good way."

00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.520
They're like, "Not a good way.

00:44:28.520 --> 00:44:30.880
"There's not actually a good way."

00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.120
I know from being at a
women's college that a third

00:44:34.120 --> 00:44:37.280
of my students suffer from
some kind of mental illness.

00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.160
I'm shutting down that third
of the students in my class.

00:44:40.160 --> 00:44:41.240
I don't wanna do it.

00:44:41.240 --> 00:44:46.000
- In our day and age when
25% of college students,

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:48.720
or thereabouts,
maybe it's closer to 40%,

00:44:48.720 --> 00:44:53.080
are on psychoactive medication,
to say there's no such thing

00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:55.560
as emotional harm, and yet to have

00:44:55.560 --> 00:44:58.520
billions of dollars going
into psychopharmacology,

00:44:58.520 --> 00:45:00.160
that seems-- it's ludicrous.

00:45:02.080 --> 00:45:04.880
- [Julie] One thing I
still wondered about:

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.280
Conservatives often comment
that the word "inclusion"

00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:12.800
on college campuses is a
tool of left-wing, race,

00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:14.480
gender, and sexual politics,

00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:19.880
but couldn't inclusion also
mean political diversity?

00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:23.600
[loping jazz bass]

00:45:23.600 --> 00:45:26.400
On a typical liberal college campus,

00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:28.360
what could be done?

00:45:30.080 --> 00:45:33.440
- We have to be more aware
at colleges and universities

00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:35.920
of the biases we bring
to the hiring process.

00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.520
So I would love to see, and
have written a lot about,

00:45:38.520 --> 00:45:41.040
wanting to see more intellectual
and political diversity

00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:42.160
on campus.

00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:45.760
I also believe that having
the government choose people

00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.800
on the basis of your ideology
is a recipe for disaster.

00:45:51.120 --> 00:45:52.080
I mean, this is the government

00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:54.760
that can't even use
the Signal app well.

00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:59.320
We need the professional
historians choosing historians,

00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:02.400
but being mindful of
their political biases,

00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.840
and the same in English
or anthropology.

00:46:08.680 --> 00:46:10.320
- Professor Loretta Ross

00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.680
teaches students a practice
she calls "calling in."

00:46:14.520 --> 00:46:18.000
It's a way to understand
other people's perspectives,

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.800
even very different ones.

00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.280
- We're an academic institution,

00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:29.680
so I'm always gonna believe
in research, baby, research.

00:46:29.680 --> 00:46:33.440
And so if I know that an Ann
Coulter is coming to campus,

00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:37.320
I'm gonna prepare dossier on
her, her most famous quotes,

00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:42.160
and make sure that the
campus is educated about

00:46:42.160 --> 00:46:46.000
what she's done in the past,
what she's likely to say.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:49.600
How do we deal with the difference
between academic freedom

00:46:49.600 --> 00:46:51.480
and the First Amendment?

00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.160
[loping jazz bass]

00:46:54.160 --> 00:46:57.640
What does it look like
to de-platform somebody

00:46:57.640 --> 00:47:01.680
versus carefully interrogating them?

00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:04.440
I want my students to know this is

00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:08.720
how you prepare a background
packet on somebody

00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:10.000
so that when you get to the mic,

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.640
you ask the penetrating questions.

00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.960
- I would also be interested,
too, like, in thinking about

00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:21.760
how a speaker like her coming
to campus would be structured.

00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.560
I would be less open
to seeing just a speech

00:47:26.560 --> 00:47:30.600
that she was giving
than having her be part

00:47:30.600 --> 00:47:33.520
of a larger discussion that
represents multiple viewpoints

00:47:33.520 --> 00:47:36.080
that students can be engaged
in that other faculty

00:47:36.080 --> 00:47:39.760
who have more reproductive
justice framework

00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:44.560
and pro-choice, like, lenses
would also be engaged with.

00:47:44.560 --> 00:47:46.680
I think that that could
be a lot more productive,

00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:49.400
and as long as it was done in a way

00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.920
where it's not becoming calling out.

00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.760
- And I think that when we
talk about echo chambers,

00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.600
it's not just bad for
people who don't agree

00:47:58.600 --> 00:48:00.800
with the internal beliefs
of an echo chamber.

00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.400
It's bad for the people inside, too,

00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:03.440
because we don't actually get

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.160
to understand our own opinions deeply.

00:48:06.160 --> 00:48:07.880
And that's of course just part of it,

00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:10.960
'cause there's also a part of,
what if a lot of students

00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.800
on campus are very
uncomfortable by that

00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:14.480
and are made to feel unsafe?

00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:16.400
And that should also be
part of the conversation.

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.480
Is this a large enough
concern that maybe

00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:21.920
this just shouldn't be an
event happening on campus?

00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.120
- But also making a
distinction between

00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:29.160
what is a "safe enough" space,
and what is a safe space.

00:48:29.160 --> 00:48:32.240
'Cause a safe enough space may be all

00:48:32.240 --> 00:48:36.880
that a public forum can provide,
'cause there's no guarantee

00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:41.920
that you'll never hear an
idea in an academic community

00:48:42.120 --> 00:48:45.760
that doesn't get
interpreted as harmful.

00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:46.880
'Cause that's our job,

00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.960
our job is to sometimes
say the unthinkable

00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:53.680
and see if it's worth teaching about.

00:48:53.680 --> 00:48:58.720
So, I like people discussing harm

00:48:58.720 --> 00:49:00.720
in advance of need.

00:49:00.720 --> 00:49:05.440
I also want people to discuss
the verifiability of harm,

00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:08.960
because just because somebody
says "This hurts me,"

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.640
it's not enough for me to
say, "Oops, ouch, whoa."

00:49:12.640 --> 00:49:15.320
I wanna know why is it hurting,

00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:18.640
and what can we do to prevent
it in the first place?

00:49:18.640 --> 00:49:20.720
And what you gonna do about it?

00:49:20.720 --> 00:49:23.080
Because I'm not supposed
to be your shield.

00:49:23.080 --> 00:49:24.960
All I can be is your teacher.

00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:28.200
- A "safe enough space" is a space

00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:30.160
in which you can encounter difference,

00:49:30.160 --> 00:49:33.480
you can encounter ideas
that make you uncomfortable,

00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:35.360
but it's safe enough that
you know you're not gonna be

00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.040
subject to intimidation or harassment.

00:49:39.040 --> 00:49:44.080
You're not gonna be
erased in that space.

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:47.160
- [Julie] But in the spring of 2025,

00:49:47.160 --> 00:49:50.240
our country witnessed
someone being erased

00:49:50.240 --> 00:49:55.200
in that very space, the
safe space of a university.

00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.760
Erased for voicing an opinion.

00:49:58.680 --> 00:50:01.400
- [Reporter 4] 30-year-old
Rumeysa Ozturk was on her way

00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:04.720
to break her Ramadan fast
with friends on Tuesday

00:50:04.720 --> 00:50:07.920
when six plain-clothed
officers approached her.

00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.920
They take her phone and
put her in handcuffs.

00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:14.800
Only then do they appear to
identify themselves as police.

00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:16.880
Ozturk is a doctoral student

00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.600
from Turkey studying child
development at Tufts University.

00:50:20.600 --> 00:50:23.960
She's the recipient of the
prestigious Fulbright Scholarship

00:50:23.960 --> 00:50:28.080
and had an F1 student visa,
now revoked.

00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:30.880
A year ago, Ozturk
was among four authors

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.160
of a student newspaper
op-ed that called for an end

00:50:34.160 --> 00:50:37.600
to Israel's war on Gaza and
more support for Palestinians

00:50:37.600 --> 00:50:38.800
from the university.

00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:44.240
- [Julie] And over 300 other
students on international visas

00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:48.600
were also arrested and
detained without due process.

00:50:50.720 --> 00:50:53.880
Back in 2019, the right
wing was on the side

00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.880
of academic free speech,

00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.760
and President
Trump was its champion.

00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.160
But in 2025, when
Trump became president

00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:05.240
for the second
time, everything changed.

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.920
Trump then demanded the elimination of

00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:12.280
diversity and inclusion
programs and the addition

00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:16.480
of government oversight
regarding hiring, admissions,

00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:17.600
and curriculum.

00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.280
At Harvard, President Alan
Garber rejected Trump's demands,

00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.080
calling them illegal.

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:27.880
"No government", he said,
"should dictate what

00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:31.240
"private institutions
can teach, whom they can

00:51:31.240 --> 00:51:33.840
"admit and hire, and which areas of

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.840
"study and inquiry they can pursue."

00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.920
Trump's first move was to freeze
$2 billion federal dollars

00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:44.080
to Harvard, affecting
research on such things

00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:48.040
as Parkinson's disease,
Alzheimer's, and TB.

00:51:50.120 --> 00:51:52.600
So much for the right wing
being the great champion

00:51:52.600 --> 00:51:54.360
of free speech.

00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:57.280
The only free speech the
right wing wanted to champion

00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:58.760
was its own.

00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:03.560
In the end, have I
learned anything here?

00:52:04.640 --> 00:52:05.560
Has anyone?

00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:12.560
[loping jazz bass]

00:52:15.040 --> 00:52:18.560
- In fact, I think that free
speech is the greatest ally

00:52:18.560 --> 00:52:21.800
of diversity and inclusion,

00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.360
and if you go back to
the civil rights era

00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:26.800
it was the freedom of speech

00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:30.000
that allowed those protests,
that allowed that movement.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.080
The significant amount of
its fervor and its intensity,

00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:37.360
and the basis for its
successes both in the country

00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:41.000
and in the legislature, in the
Congress, and in the courts.

00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:43.480
- In the world we live in today,

00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:46.400
a lot of things
trigger people, I guess.

00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.400
And so that is where it comes

00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.920
a little more into question
because millennials,

00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.040
people my age, like,
are triggered more

00:52:55.040 --> 00:52:58.600
than other generations
have been, I would say,

00:52:58.600 --> 00:53:01.640
which makes it hard to
say what is hate speech

00:53:01.640 --> 00:53:02.920
and what is free speech,

00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:06.080
and what's the in-between
and where's the line.

00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:10.880
- We're losing that ability
to have civil discussions

00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:15.640
where one viewpoint
that is completely

00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:18.440
just not accepted,
not on anybody's radar,

00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:23.200
can be brought into a
space, wrestled with,

00:53:23.200 --> 00:53:26.400
and then a conclusion can be reached,

00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.560
and everybody kind of
respects and partakes

00:53:29.560 --> 00:53:33.160
in that intellectual act
and respects it as such.

00:53:33.160 --> 00:53:36.320
- If you are at Amherst, yes,

00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.120
free speech may be
a little bit limited,

00:53:38.120 --> 00:53:41.880
but there is not
going to be any kind of,

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.280
like, institutional pushback on you

00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.200
for stating your opinion.

00:53:46.200 --> 00:53:49.240
Like, I had a professor,
a white professor,

00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:51.000
reading a poem by a Black man,

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.960
say the N word during the poem.

00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:54.880
And to me, that was
completely unacceptable.

00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.640
But he didn't get fired,
y'know, he was all right.

00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:01.960
So I think that it's
important to understand--

00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:06.320
we talk to fascism, and I think
it's important to understand

00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.200
that true fascism
isn't like book banning

00:54:09.200 --> 00:54:11.200
or, like, banning critical race theory

00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:13.520
or in banning sexuality
and gender classes.

00:54:13.520 --> 00:54:17.680
- How can we improve
the tone on our campuses

00:54:17.680 --> 00:54:22.160
and people's willingness to
listen to other people's ideas?

00:54:22.160 --> 00:54:26.000
How could we diminish the
so-called cancel culture?

00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:29.600
Well, leadership is always a factor.

00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:34.000
So if your college president,
your provost, your deans

00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:38.760
did more to promote
roundtables, panels, debates,

00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:42.720
I think it would condition
students to the idea that,

00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:44.640
on a given controversy,
there's likely

00:54:44.640 --> 00:54:47.280
to be more than one
reasonable opinion.

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.600
- And for me, the issue is
how do you open up space

00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:54.200
to allow people to say things
which may be wrong, right,

00:54:54.200 --> 00:54:57.440
which may be wrong without
shutting them down,

00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.120
because if you want to
engage in any kind of debate,

00:55:00.120 --> 00:55:01.440
if you wanna engage in pedagogy

00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:03.960
which is actually
changing people's minds,

00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:04.960
getting people to learn.

00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:05.880
I mean, that's what learning is.

00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:07.520
Learning is changing your mind.

00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:10.880
- Well, a number of
philosophers have argued

00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.240
that constraints on
speech will have a really

00:55:15.240 --> 00:55:19.520
deleterious effect on
our attainment of truth.

00:55:19.520 --> 00:55:21.960
If you think that truth is the outcome

00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.720
of basically conversations
between people of disagreement,

00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:31.520
then you're gonna wind up
thinking that it's very important

00:55:31.520 --> 00:55:34.680
for there to be these
contrasting views.

00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:36.840
- [Julie] If there's
anyone who understands

00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:39.400
contrasting views, it's Loretta Ross.

00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:43.840
Loretta's been an activist
for over 40 years.

00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.920
She's basically spent her life
fighting for human rights,

00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.400
and she told a story
that astonished me.

00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:55.000
- In the 1990s, I worked
against hate groups

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:58.160
like the Ku Klux Klan
and the Aryan Nations,

00:55:58.160 --> 00:56:02.880
and in that work I met a
man named Floyd Cochran,

00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:05.880
who was the national spokesman
for the Aryan Nations.

00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:08.560
And Floyd called my center one day

00:56:08.560 --> 00:56:11.200
because he'd been kicked
off the compound,

00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:13.840
and the reason he was
kicked off the compound was

00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.960
because his second son was
born with a cleft palate.

00:56:18.240 --> 00:56:20.320
And his Aryan buddies told him

00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:24.040
that his son was a genetic
defect who needed to be culled.

00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.920
Well, that was kind of like
a wake-up call for Floyd.

00:56:27.920 --> 00:56:32.880
He'd been a Nazi for 21 years,
since he was 14,

00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:36.400
and all of a sudden
the hatred came home,

00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:39.320
and so he wanted to go
on this tour of atonement

00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:43.040
to apologize for the
harm that he had done.

00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:49.840
Floyd was my first real calling in,

00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:53.440
because I was all
right hating the Klan.

00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:55.600
I was all right hating Nazis.

00:56:55.600 --> 00:57:00.440
That had been a real
strong fuel for my rage,

00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:04.440
my anger, my passion
for doing the work.

00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.360
But I found that once
you got to know him,

00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:08.960
you couldn't hate him anymore,

00:57:10.200 --> 00:57:13.520
and so I had to find another
reason for doing the work.

00:57:13.520 --> 00:57:16.040
So Floyd was part of
my calling in journey,

00:57:16.040 --> 00:57:20.960
'cause I had to call myself in
around my anger and my hatred

00:57:22.560 --> 00:57:26.360
in order to actually see
him as a human being.

00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:30.560
- [Julie] If Loretta Ross
can work with a former Nazi,

00:57:30.560 --> 00:57:33.560
maybe the rest of us can
learn to talk to each other,

00:57:33.560 --> 00:57:35.680
and even more importantly

00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.440
listen to each other.

00:57:38.680 --> 00:57:43.040
- Calling in is actually
a call out done with love,

00:57:43.040 --> 00:57:45.240
'cause you're still
seeking accountability,

00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:49.040
but instead of using that
humiliation and shame

00:57:49.040 --> 00:57:52.000
you're using love and respect.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:56.680
So an example of a calling in
would be instead of saying,

00:57:56.680 --> 00:57:59.760
"I can't believe you just said that!",

00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.720
call out tone of voice,
you can say instead,

00:58:03.720 --> 00:58:07.400
"Y'know, that's an interesting
perspective. Tell me more."

00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:10.120
With that, you've invited
them into a conversation

00:58:10.120 --> 00:58:12.520
instead of a fight.

00:58:12.520 --> 00:58:17.520
Since we've been in social
being with each other

00:58:17.600 --> 00:58:20.720
we've had to learn ways
to get along better,

00:58:20.720 --> 00:58:24.400
and just because the
internet has persuaded us

00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:27.200
that everybody who doesn't
agree with us, by definition,

00:58:27.200 --> 00:58:30.440
must be an opponent,
we don't have to fall for

00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:33.720
that overly simplified binary,

00:58:33.720 --> 00:58:38.200
and we can actually figure out
how to build common ground,

00:58:38.200 --> 00:58:42.120
how to agree to disagree,
how to actually enjoy

00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:44.000
that it's the diversity of opinions

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.080
that produces the best thinking.

00:58:48.040 --> 00:58:50.080
[upbeat funk music]

00:58:50.080 --> 00:58:52.160
- [Julie] And what
happened to my son Sam,

00:58:52.160 --> 00:58:54.040
who started me on this journey?

00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:58.640
He listened, and then
he went his own way.

00:58:59.840 --> 00:59:04.360
Maybe that was wrong, or maybe
writing his book was his way

00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.000
to understand other people.

00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.280
We all live with lots of
opposites in this world.

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:14.400
It could be that inclusion and
free speech are two of them.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:17.360
Maybe we need inclusion

00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:20.080
to make sure historically
marginalized people

00:59:20.080 --> 00:59:22.200
are no longer kept out.

00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:27.640
And maybe we need free speech

00:59:27.640 --> 00:59:31.120
because society can only work
when we hear every opinion

00:59:31.120 --> 00:59:32.360
under the sun.

00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.360
Because it's
not just about words.

00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:39.000
In the end, it's about lives.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:41.320
[Rümeysa shrieking]

00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:42.960
- [ICE Agent 1] It's fine.

00:59:45.040 --> 00:59:46.840
- [ICE Agent 2] We're the
police, we're the police.

00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:48.040
- [Bystander] Well,
you don't look like it.

00:59:48.040 --> 00:59:50.520
Why are you hiding your faces?

00:59:50.520 --> 00:59:53.360
[melancholy jazz clarinet]

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What I Didn't Know About Free Speech on College Campuses: A Filmmaker's Journey

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