WEBVTT

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(percussive music)

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Some people were unhappy about my coming here.

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Possibly because they believe I\'m a terrorist,

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they believe I\'m a communist, they believe I\'m a murderer.

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(chuckling) What do you think?

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(laughing)

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I\'m what I am really.

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I\'m just what I am.

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Oliver Tambo has been described, quite correctly,

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as one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.

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He was a stoic.

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He was a person of steel.

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Very gentle person.

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Not my image of a militant guy.

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The humility, the bravery,

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(shouting in foreign language)

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the intellect.

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He always had to be on his guard for murderers.

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I mean he was on the death list.

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The South Africans tried to kill him.

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As the record comes to be revised it will seen

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how crucial how he was to the new South Africa.

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Without him it wouldn\'t have happened.

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(singing in foreign language)

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[Danish Radio Host] Who are you Oliver Tambo?

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Who am I?

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Well perhaps I\'d better start at the place of my birth.

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I was born in a small village known as Bizana

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in the Cape province of the Union of South Africa.

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And for my early education I went to missionary schools

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and subsequently taught mathematics and physics and music.

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During which time I had become very interested in politics.

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(singing in foreign language)

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What the young activists of the Forties had done,

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Tambo, Mandela, Sisulu,

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was to move the ANC out of the politics

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of just mild protests to politics of challenge.

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[Danish Radio Host] What exactly has happened

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during these past months in the Union?

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It was resolved to take active political action

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against the past laws.

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People came out in large numbers.

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As usual the police were organized and they fired.

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[Danish Radio Host] At Sharpeville?

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This was at Sharpeville.

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And then of course the whole country moved in support

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of those who were killed.

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And the government responded to all these by declaring

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a state of emergency under which all sorts of people known

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to be opposed to the government were arrested and detained.

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After the Sharpeville massacre I phoned Oliver.

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So we got together and we started talking

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about the ANC plans when the newspaper arrived

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with headlines \'Congress To Be Banned.\'

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And Oliver turned to me and said

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there is a standing order of the National Executive

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that in the event of Congress being banned

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I should go abroad and set up congress in exile.

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I said, I\'ll take you.

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I mean it was as natural as breathing in that situation.

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We had a drive of a thousand miles.

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And sitting next to a black at that time

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was very suspicious, but if the black wore a uniform

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then he was obviously a servant and it was okay.

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So I dressed Oliver in a chauffeur\'s uniform,

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he said goodbye to his wife,

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and we left and drove across the border

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to what was then Bechuanaland.

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(tense music)

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The next morning, fingers crossed,

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I was waiting at the airport.

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They all arrived, and I met them,

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took them to meet the various Tanganyikan leadership,

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and within twenty-four hours I had Oliver Tambo out

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and he went to Britain.

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We looked at our struggle as being fought on two fronts.

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We were fighting on the home front,

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but the international front is also very, very important.

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This is precisely the reason why Oliver Tambo was sent out,

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to mobilize the international world against apartheid.

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(applauding)

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We the oppressed are determined to succeed,

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but the forces arraigned against us

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are mighty and powerful.

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And it is only the spirit of our determination,

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supported by the freedom-loving peoples

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who love democracy, that we can ultimately succeed.

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(crowd applauding)

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(light music)

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The first groups, the pathfinders,

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people who opened the route, had it very tough,

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because there were so many shortages,

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and you hardly had a penny in your pocket.

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I think that the first year must have been

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a horrendous one, which even I as living in Britain,

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I don\'t think I appreciated.

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There were times when he was without food,

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without the kind of basic needs people have,

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but you could never see it on him.

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And was always impeccably dressed, took great care,

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and just carried this enormous amount of dignity,

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in terms of the mission and the cause that he had.

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By that time Adelaide has come with the children.

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Appeals were made to people like me.

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Will you help?

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I know I would say, ah God I\'ve got to go and babysit now.

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Why can\'t they take care of themselves?

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But literally he just brought Adelaide there

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and left Adelaide to look after the family.

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And Adelaide had to find her own feet in Britain.

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Oh she was terribly strong.

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She was an incredibly tough lady.

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And not tough in a hard way, but resilient.

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Your husband is away all the time

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and you\'re battling on a daily basis to feed your kids.

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I mean it was rare,

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once or twice a year that he would come,

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but he understood what my mother was going through,

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and she did go through Hell.

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And he understood how lonely her life was without him,

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but he also understood that she totally supported him

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in the struggle and totally encouraged him.

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We\'re both committed to the struggle and we knew

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that we\'re not always going to be together.

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And even before we got married we discussed everything.

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What we would do if he was to go to jail.

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What we\'d do when we have the children,

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if we were going to have children.

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But everything that we discussed before we got married

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involved the political struggle.

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And she knew that because of his deep Christian ethics

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he wasn\'t playing around.

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There was no one else.

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I think they both grew up with very, very deep core values

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of integrity and steadfastness and the notion

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that suffering wasn\'t a bad thing

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if you were suffering for a good cause.

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(tense music)

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He, in that phase, was setting up the ANC structures,

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headquarters, and offices around the world.

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And had been in Britain, which had been very important

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to get the ANC stabilized and represented there,

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and the anti-apartheid movement going,

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and the boycott campaign.

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Mr. Tambo, what methods of resistance

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to the South African government\'s policies is there?

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Well all possible methods, short of violence of course.

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He talked in a way that people here

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in the West understood.

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That is in an intimate, humanitarian, appealing manner.

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What we want in South Africa is that our humanity

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should be acknowledged, that those who are ruling

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in that country should pay some respect

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to the concept of human dignity.

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You have 12 million people in South Africa

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who are treated as if they were subhumans.

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In South Africa I should feel like I am a human being

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in that country.

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And I don\'t feel so now at all.

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I feel I\'m a stranger, a foreigner,

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and at best an animal in South Africa.

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This is how I feel.

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He went around to explain who was the ANC,

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what did we want.

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And one of the big issues was sanctions.

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We believe that sanctions against South Africa,

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economic sanctions, diplomatic sanctions,

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a severance of even cultural relations like sport

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are absolutely essential.

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And we bring this matter as one of urgency.

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Sanctions was being considered

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to be a stupid idea.

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You know, who had ever heard of sanctions?

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The argument is that sanctions is a wild idea,

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they\'re not feasible to implement, too difficult,

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and it wouldn\'t have effect on South Africa.

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A bitter debate raged

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at the United Nations.

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The issue: the projected boycott of the Republic

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of South Africa.

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Mr. President, the council does not,

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in these circumstances, have power to impose sanctions.

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To attempt to do so would be both bad law and bad policy.

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(tense music)

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I cannot exaggerate the sense of grievance,

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to put it mildly, which we feel toward those countries

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which are even now doing so much to make apartheid

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the monstrous and ghastly reality which it is

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and which have created in our country the conditions,

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which if nothing else happens,

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will ensure an unparalleled bloodbath.

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Assured of the support of these countries,

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the South African rulers are not only showing

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open defiance, they are liquidating the opponents

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of their policies, confident the big powers

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will not act against them.

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By blocking sanctions against South Africa

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what you are saying to the freedom fighters

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that the only other option left is the option

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of armed resistance.

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(booming)

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The National Executive of the ANC decided

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to create Umkhonto we Sizwe and it entrusted

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to Nelson Mandela the work of leadership.

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It is useless and futile for us to continue

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talking peace and nonviolence against a government

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whose reply is only savage attacks

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on an unarmed and defenseless people.

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Mandela went abroad in 1962 to now brief O.R.,

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to take him on board fully on the requirements

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of the armed struggle.

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Oliver Tambo himself was a devout Christian,

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so was Adelaide.

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So this was going to be a radical shift in their thinking.

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And Oliver said, I don\'t want to be having to explain this

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to Adelaide Tambo, my wife.

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You, Nelson Mandela, come and explain it,

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because you chaps at home have taken a decision

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that is moving us out of the paradigm

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in which we have been thinking.

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And you had better come and persuade her

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so that in my own family I have the space to do

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what I\'m doing and she won\'t be questioning

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why I\'m doing it.

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He was an extraordinary Christian humanist

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who would have liked to live in peace

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in a small church I would say.

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Or he would have become a bishop like Desmond Tutu.

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What we are asking the world to do is not

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to solve our problems for us,

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but to assist us solve those problems.

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We have tried to ask that assistance should be given

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in such a way that we can solve the problems peacefully.

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That has not been forthcoming, and we are continuing

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to try and solve the problems with the methods

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that are available to us.

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And the stage that has been reached is that

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the methods that are available to us now are those

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which we have tried to resist over a long period

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of time: they are the methods of violence.

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Because the worst of all horrors in the world

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is to live forever as a slave,

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as a hated, despised subhuman.

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And this we reject.

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And none of the European countries,

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not the United States, provided any support.

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Not only would they not give arms

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to the liberation movements,

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but they would not even tolerate the idea

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that the liberation movements had the right

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to take up arms.

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But at the same time they are providing arms

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to the apartheid regime.

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The South Africa military machine was becoming stronger

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and stronger and stronger.

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So in the course of Mandela\'s discussions

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one of the things that he had to explain to Oliver Tambo

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was that besides African countries\' support

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for the armed struggle we would need to depend

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on the support of socialist countries

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00:16:27.760 --> 00:16:29.373
namely the Soviet Union.

262
00:16:31.760 --> 00:16:34.763
The Soviet Union gave us arms, they trained our people,

263
00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:37.640
and that was critical.

264
00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:40.320 line:15%
There was no way we could defeat the regime

265
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:42.800 line:15%
without sanctions and the armed struggle.

266
00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:44.290 line:15%
There was no way.

267
00:16:44.290 --> 00:16:46.560
Without those two elements

268
00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:49.273
we probably would still be struggling today.

269
00:17:00.699 --> 00:17:03.199 line:15%
(eerie music)

270
00:17:07.870 --> 00:17:09.670
Nelson Mandela was arrested

271
00:17:09.670 --> 00:17:11.733
for leaving the country illegally.

272
00:17:14.130 --> 00:17:17.963
And a year later we had the Rivonia arrests.

273
00:17:20.070 --> 00:17:22.720
The news of course shocked us.

274
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.340
Oliver Tambo particularly was so tortured

275
00:17:26.340 --> 00:17:27.640
by the whole process.

276
00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.570
You see, terrible emotions go through your mind.

277
00:17:31.570 --> 00:17:34.550
Here they were free and out and their colleagues

278
00:17:34.550 --> 00:17:36.523
and comrades had been picked up.

279
00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:42.850 line:15%
These are people who grew together in the rural areas

280
00:17:42.850 --> 00:17:45.440 line:15%
of the Transkei, went to school together,

281
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:47.960
to college together, to university together,

282
00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:51.060
opened a law practice in Johannesburg together,

283
00:17:51.060 --> 00:17:53.600
started the Youth League together.

284
00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:58.600
It\'s together Mandela, Tambo and then Mandela,

285
00:17:58.600 --> 00:18:01.933
one goes to prison and they\'re separated for 27 years.

286
00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:08.980
Every single day spent in jail represents a unit

287
00:18:10.130 --> 00:18:11.973
of human worth lost.

288
00:18:13.310 --> 00:18:16.173
This is a loss we can no longer afford.

289
00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:20.840
South Africans are being dragged to the slaughterhouse

290
00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:24.700
because they fought to replace racial intolerance

291
00:18:24.700 --> 00:18:29.453
and tyranny with democracy and equality.

292
00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:37.570
With the movement having been smashed inside the country

293
00:18:37.570 --> 00:18:42.570
O.R. had to keep the movement alive, to keep it developed,

294
00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:47.890
to keep it strong, to keep it united both internationally,

295
00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:49.890
externally to the country,

296
00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:54.130
and internally, in South Africa itself.

297
00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:57.097 line:15%
And it took a long time for him to agree

298
00:18:57.097 --> 00:19:00.680 line:15%
to be called President of the African National Congress.

299
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.880
That\'s the kind of person he was: extremely,

300
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.100
extremely self-effacing,

301
00:19:06.100 --> 00:19:09.103
very modest but extremely confident.

302
00:19:10.550 --> 00:19:15.400
O.R. had, I would say, 2,000 people outside-the majority

303
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.760
of whom have been sent out for training who are expecting

304
00:19:19.760 --> 00:19:23.350
to come back into the country, which was part of the plan.

305
00:19:23.350 --> 00:19:27.110
The military camps were in Tanzania, but Tanzania

306
00:19:27.110 --> 00:19:29.173
was too far from South Africa.

307
00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:33.823
And then Zambia got independence in 1964.

308
00:19:37.250 --> 00:19:39.420
It provided the first opportunity to be able

309
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:40.813
to come down south.

310
00:19:42.230 --> 00:19:46.540 line:15%
I treated Oliver Tambo as head of state,

311
00:19:46.540 --> 00:19:49.860 line:15%
chased away illegally from his country.

312
00:19:49.860 --> 00:19:53.430 line:15%
We were going to allow them to set up

313
00:19:53.430 --> 00:19:56.203
their own organizations on our soil.

314
00:19:58.353 --> 00:20:03.353
O.R. began to work on a way of infiltrating back

315
00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:05.633
into South Africa through Zimbabwe.

316
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:08.607 line:15%
We established a special camp in Zambia

317
00:20:08.607 --> 00:20:13.060 line:15%
to prepare ourselves, both physically,

318
00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:14.780
mentally and militarily.

319
00:20:14.780 --> 00:20:19.220
Tambo was very much part of the preparation there

320
00:20:19.220 --> 00:20:23.320
and he spent two, three months with that detachment

321
00:20:23.320 --> 00:20:27.930
as they were finally preparing for entry into Zimbabwe.

322
00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:30.660
Living with them in encampments.

323
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.250
We had exercises day and night.

324
00:20:33.250 --> 00:20:36.440
We embarked on long marches.

325
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.543
We had prepared thoroughly for this thing.

326
00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:46.900
O.R. Tambo was very soft generally, very laid back.

327
00:20:47.310 --> 00:20:51.410
But once it became necessary to take a decision

328
00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:54.830
he owned it and he put the weight

329
00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:56.583
of his authority behind it.

330
00:20:58.780 --> 00:21:01.800
On the day when the people crossed the Zambezi

331
00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:04.363
he was right there at the crossing point.

332
00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:09.780
People had to tie a rope around a tree trunk

333
00:21:09.780 --> 00:21:12.640
and then go down to the channel of the river,

334
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:13.743
down this gorge.

335
00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:17.750
O.R. came down also on this rope

336
00:21:17.750 --> 00:21:20.577
and stood on the banks of the Zambezi

337
00:21:20.577 --> 00:21:22.413
seeing the comrades off.

338
00:21:24.730 --> 00:21:26.620
You had a sense that if he could

339
00:21:26.620 --> 00:21:28.520
he would have crossed with the people.

340
00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:30.500
I was among the first to cross

341
00:21:30.500 --> 00:21:32.310
the Zambezi river in a canoe.

342
00:21:32.310 --> 00:21:34.230
And we chose the most difficult

343
00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:36.090
and impassable part of the river.

344
00:21:36.090 --> 00:21:37.160
And we\'re doing this at night.

345
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:38.103
It was dark.

346
00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:41.420
He stood there watching everybody go

347
00:21:41.420 --> 00:21:43.763
and shook everybody\'s hand.

348
00:21:45.610 --> 00:21:46.980
Planes could have flown

349
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:49.570
or enemy could have appeared anywhere.

350
00:21:49.570 --> 00:21:53.610
I think it was a remarkable act of bravery for him

351
00:21:53.610 --> 00:21:56.163
to stand right there to the end.

352
00:22:02.850 --> 00:22:06.810
So when we crossed the Zambezi this was the realization

353
00:22:06.810 --> 00:22:09.213
of our dreams as young combatants.

354
00:22:10.310 --> 00:22:13.690
For the first time we were going to get involved

355
00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:16.410
with the real enemy, pitting our strength,

356
00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:19.263
testing ourselves against the other side.

357
00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:22.683
And we were quite happy.

358
00:22:23.770 --> 00:22:27.860
We\'re carrying our weapons: AK-47 machine guns,

359
00:22:27.860 --> 00:22:30.253
grenades, lots of ammunition.

360
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:37.263
And those rucksacks were heavy but we didn\'t feel it.

361
00:22:43.410 --> 00:22:46.180 line:15%
I still remember, it was exciting sitting at that meeting.

362
00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:47.620 line:15%
A couple of hundred people were there

363
00:22:47.620 --> 00:22:50.490 line:15%
and Tambo comes up on to the platform

364
00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:53.830
and then he says Umkhonto we Sizwe managed

365
00:22:53.830 --> 00:22:56.810
to evade detection for a number of weeks

366
00:22:56.810 --> 00:22:59.290
but eventually there was a firefight

367
00:22:59.290 --> 00:23:01.840 line:15%
with three of the enemy dead lying on the ground

368
00:23:01.840 --> 00:23:06.570 line:15%
and no injuries to our brave fighters.

369
00:23:06.570 --> 00:23:08.940
And we stood up and we cheered, we cheered,

370
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:12.280
we cheered at last, at last, at last we\'re fighting back.

371
00:23:12.280 --> 00:23:15.183
And behind me there\'s a voice,

372
00:23:15.183 --> 00:23:18.860
well elocuted English voice, shouts,

373
00:23:18.860 --> 00:23:22.347
somebody\'s standing up, \"That\'s murder.\"

374
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:27.583
And Tambo steps aside, very quiet,

375
00:23:29.430 --> 00:23:34.430
he said \"Yes.\", he said \"Yes, we\'ve become killers.\"

376
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.800
Maybe one of the worst things that apartheid has done

377
00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:41.020
has been to force a young generation of South Africans,

378
00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:44.710
who otherwise would have wanted to grow up to be doctors

379
00:23:44.710 --> 00:23:47.903
and engineers and nurses and farmers, to become killers.

380
00:23:49.977 --> 00:23:52.560
(somber music)

381
00:23:53.688 --> 00:23:55.855
(booming)

382
00:23:57.910 --> 00:24:00.240
The group fought brilliantly.

383
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.590
You cannot exaggerate that.

384
00:24:02.810 --> 00:24:07.520
But against the superior air and ground forces of the enemy

385
00:24:07.520 --> 00:24:12.363
they were soon overcome, so they retreated.

386
00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:18.420
They arrived back, no heroes welcome,

387
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:21.760
no real recognition that these are the people

388
00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:22.923
who started it all.

389
00:24:24.620 --> 00:24:28.640
I was a militant and angry young man

390
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:30.870
and I found a lot of demoralization

391
00:24:30.870 --> 00:24:33.213
amongst our chaps in Zambia.

392
00:24:34.510 --> 00:24:36.320
And I began to agitate for seriousness

393
00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:38.190
on the part of the leadership.

394
00:24:38.190 --> 00:24:41.200 line:15%
There was a feeling that leadership

395
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.050 line:15%
was not paying sufficient attention to the struggle

396
00:24:44.050 --> 00:24:48.090 line:15%
of getting people home, of building the movement back home.

397
00:24:48.090 --> 00:24:50.950
And Tambo, amongst the other leaders,

398
00:24:50.950 --> 00:24:54.440
comes in for criticism, especially from within the camps

399
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:56.870
where people feel they\'re rotting

400
00:24:56.870 --> 00:24:58.993
and getting highly frustrated.

401
00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:04.840
And that created a near mutinous situation.

402
00:25:05.670 --> 00:25:10.670
That\'s when O.R. then came to address all of us.

403
00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:12.760
It was very tense.

404
00:25:12.760 --> 00:25:15.610
He said this is perhaps the worst crisis

405
00:25:15.610 --> 00:25:18.633
that the organization has experienced to date.

406
00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:24.610
And this led to the Morogoro Conference of 1969.

407
00:25:29.530 --> 00:25:34.530
And a key element was the fact that on that first day

408
00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:37.740
O.R. announced that he was resigning

409
00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:40.563
as the Acting President of the ANC.

410
00:25:41.500 --> 00:25:45.150
He said look, for us to do a real renewal

411
00:25:45.150 --> 00:25:49.510
we must now all come down to one size, one level,

412
00:25:49.510 --> 00:25:54.510
no leaders, and everybody else was there as equal level.

413
00:25:55.340 --> 00:26:00.040
That Morogoro Conference ushered in serious discussions

414
00:26:00.040 --> 00:26:01.900
which led, for the first time, to the formulation

415
00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:04.240
of a clear strategy about the waging

416
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:06.480
of a revolutionary war in the country,

417
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.580
of a people\'s war, the need to build the underground,

418
00:26:09.580 --> 00:26:14.110
the need for propaganda, the need for mass mobilization.

419
00:26:14.110 --> 00:26:16.671
The Conference formally took a decision

420
00:26:16.671 --> 00:26:21.433
that all race groups can be members of the ANC.

421
00:26:23.840 --> 00:26:27.690
We now were no longer white, black, yellow, purple.

422
00:26:27.690 --> 00:26:30.140
We were ANC cadres fighting

423
00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:32.933
a common enemy called apartheid.

424
00:26:32.933 --> 00:26:35.220
The Executive Committee positions

425
00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:37.970
should still remain black.

426
00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:40.670
We don\'t mind all being in the same bus

427
00:26:40.670 --> 00:26:43.220
but at the steering wheel you\'ve got to have

428
00:26:43.220 --> 00:26:44.670
a black person.

429
00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:46.840
And there was never a doubt

430
00:26:46.840 --> 00:26:50.933
that when you referred to a driver you\'re talking to Tambo.

431
00:26:51.850 --> 00:26:54.767
(crowd applauding)

432
00:26:55.887 --> 00:26:58.887
And he was re-elected unanimously.

433
00:27:02.860 --> 00:27:06.650
O.R. showed that he could assess the mood

434
00:27:06.650 --> 00:27:10.380
and what was needed to keep people together,

435
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.640
in terms of an integrity of the movement.

436
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:17.210
It was a wonderful example of leadership.

437
00:27:17.210 --> 00:27:20.993
He had a technique of weaving a summary

438
00:27:20.993 --> 00:27:24.810
and a gist of what is seemed to be agreed.

439
00:27:24.810 --> 00:27:29.365 line:15%
By taking from every contributor some piece

440
00:27:29.365 --> 00:27:32.870 line:15%
to make them feel that they were crucial

441
00:27:32.870 --> 00:27:34.963
to contributing to that decision.

442
00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:37.763
This was an enormous art.

443
00:27:39.290 --> 00:27:42.190
If you look at other exile movements,

444
00:27:42.190 --> 00:27:44.210
over such a prolonged period with no resources,

445
00:27:44.210 --> 00:27:47.620
they would just crumble into little leadership fights,

446
00:27:47.620 --> 00:27:49.433
personality squabbles, you name it.

447
00:27:50.629 --> 00:27:51.829
But he held it together.

448
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:06.790
If you destroy this government

449
00:28:08.121 --> 00:28:11.491
what are you going to put in its place?

450
00:28:11.491 --> 00:28:13.867 line:15%
The end result will be a communist takeover

451
00:28:13.867 --> 00:28:16.593 line:15%
and that is the grand strategy, as I\'ve said,

452
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:18.473
of the Marxists.

453
00:28:20.177 --> 00:28:22.030
Our struggle was taking place right in the middle

454
00:28:22.030 --> 00:28:23.380
of the Cold War.

455
00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:25.440
We\'re having problems in mobilizing support

456
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:26.690
in the Western countries.

457
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:31.123
The ANC is perceived as a suspicious organization.

458
00:28:32.026 --> 00:28:33.610
Mr. Tambo, a large number

459
00:28:33.610 --> 00:28:37.090 line:15%
of the members of the ANC who are active operationally

460
00:28:37.090 --> 00:28:39.403 line:15%
have been trained in the Soviet Union.

461
00:28:40.260 --> 00:28:41.093 line:15%
Is that true?

462
00:28:41.093 --> 00:28:42.340
Yes, that is true.

463
00:28:42.340 --> 00:28:43.250
Well the question is,

464
00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:45.740
what conclusion should we draw from that?

465
00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:47.910
The only conclusion you can draw is that

466
00:28:47.910 --> 00:28:51.050
the Soviet Union has been willing to assist us

467
00:28:51.050 --> 00:28:52.993
with the kind of assistance we want.

468
00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:57.123
If the same young man had gone to Canada,

469
00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:01.540
to learn how to shoot, how to handle a weapon,

470
00:29:01.540 --> 00:29:02.373
how to fight,

471
00:29:03.830 --> 00:29:06.780
we would say that Canada is ready to support us

472
00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:08.247
to win our independence.

473
00:29:08.247 --> 00:29:11.460
But the reason we go there is not to ask

474
00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:15.333
to be influenced by Canada, by the Soviet Union,

475
00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:17.970
we ask to be assisted with the struggle

476
00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:19.763
that we started a long time ago.

477
00:29:23.490 --> 00:29:27.385
The government in both Britain and the United States

478
00:29:27.385 --> 00:29:29.623
didn\'t want to hear our problem.

479
00:29:30.610 --> 00:29:34.648
The Prime Minister of Britain never met my president.

480
00:29:34.648 --> 00:29:37.893
The President of the United States never met Tambo.

481
00:29:38.830 --> 00:29:41.000 line:15%
The government have always resisted speaking

482
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.660 line:15%
to Mr. Tambo and his colleagues

483
00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:47.080 line:15%
because of their unashamed policy of violence

484
00:29:47.080 --> 00:29:49.470
against innocent people and their attempt

485
00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:51.840
to undermine the South African government.

486
00:29:51.840 --> 00:29:55.022
For that reason then, where it was difficult

487
00:29:55.022 --> 00:29:58.765
to approach a government we approached the citizens.

488
00:29:58.765 --> 00:30:02.771
(song in foreign language)

489
00:30:02.771 --> 00:30:05.688
(crowd chattering)

490
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.160
I think we need to mobilize the masses of the people

491
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.647
in each country so that it\'s the ordinary person

492
00:30:19.647 --> 00:30:22.217
who is challenging the positions of his government,

493
00:30:22.217 --> 00:30:24.980
the worker who is challenging the practices

494
00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:26.963
of his employer.

495
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.933
I think this is the level that needs to be cultivated.

496
00:30:40.468 --> 00:30:44.590 line:15%
I remember the moment I met Oliver Tambo very, very well.

497
00:30:44.590 --> 00:30:46.820 line:15%
We started one of our first campaigns,

498
00:30:46.820 --> 00:30:50.500 line:15%
a huge campaign for the liberation of political prisoners.

499
00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:54.500
He came especially for the opening of this huge campaign.

500
00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:57.743
We are confident that whatever the difficulties

501
00:30:57.743 --> 00:31:02.743
our people in South Africa, supported by you all,

502
00:31:02.867 --> 00:31:06.863
will see their own cause triumph.

503
00:31:07.873 --> 00:31:10.290
(applauding)

504
00:31:11.290 --> 00:31:13.363
And it was a wonderful occasion.

505
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.633
A long, long friendship started that evening.

506
00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:22.270
He immediately gave me this impression

507
00:31:22.270 --> 00:31:24.569
that this was a leader.

508
00:31:24.569 --> 00:31:27.170
I\'m not so very much into that sort of things,

509
00:31:27.170 --> 00:31:30.530
I\'m far too much more real Dutch, you know,

510
00:31:30.530 --> 00:31:34.180
better be normal, you know, sort of half-anarchist,

511
00:31:34.180 --> 00:31:35.973
we have no leaders and things like that.

512
00:31:35.973 --> 00:31:38.610
But Oliver Tambo was a leader.

513
00:31:38.610 --> 00:31:40.420
Yeah he was impressive.

514
00:31:40.420 --> 00:31:44.080
Now what can the outside world, what can Holland do?

515
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:45.340
Sanctions.

516
00:31:45.340 --> 00:31:46.770
Isolation of South Africa.

517
00:31:46.770 --> 00:31:48.520
Boycott?
Boycott.

518
00:31:50.436 --> 00:31:54.772
There was a big, huge involvement of Dutch companies

519
00:31:54.772 --> 00:31:56.246
in South Africa.

520
00:31:56.246 --> 00:31:58.853
There were strong economic ties.

521
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.750
And of course there were the big multinationals,

522
00:32:01.750 --> 00:32:04.563
Philips, and Unilever, and Shell.

523
00:32:05.490 --> 00:32:09.000
And who are responsible for the policy of apartheid?

524
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.673
It is not only the white people of South Africa.

525
00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:14.400
It is the great and powerful countries

526
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:16.600
who are carrying on trade with that country.

527
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.770
It is the great business concerns

528
00:32:22.770 --> 00:32:25.803
who are drawing profits from the sufferings of my people.

529
00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:33.163
The regime had become a polecat.

530
00:32:34.310 --> 00:32:37.540
This was a period of the intensification of the calls,

531
00:32:37.540 --> 00:32:41.120
not only for isolation, but for economic sanctions,

532
00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:41.970
for arms embargo,

533
00:32:45.460 --> 00:32:47.457
for cultural and sport isolation.

534
00:32:52.970 --> 00:32:55.320
Apartheid was declared a crime against humanity

535
00:32:55.320 --> 00:32:56.896
by the United Nations.

536
00:32:56.896 --> 00:32:58.810
That was sort of the magnitude of the isolation

537
00:32:58.810 --> 00:32:59.643
of the regime.

538
00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:06.400
The failure to employ sanctions

539
00:33:07.330 --> 00:33:12.173
is to feed the escalation of war.

540
00:33:13.320 --> 00:33:15.863
And therefore the West, by not applying sanctions,

541
00:33:18.170 --> 00:33:21.960
they are creating precisely the conditions

542
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.626
in which war must escalate.

543
00:33:24.626 --> 00:33:27.126
(guns firing)

544
00:33:29.151 --> 00:33:31.818 line:15%
(ominous music)

545
00:33:35.448 --> 00:33:37.630
More than 50 people have been reported killed

546
00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:38.553
near Johannesburg, South Africa.

547
00:33:38.553 --> 00:33:39.386
The flames in Soweto

548
00:33:39.386 --> 00:33:40.660
have leapt across Johannesburg.

549
00:33:40.660 --> 00:33:42.907
Now the fires are burning in Alexandra,

550
00:33:42.907 --> 00:33:45.640
the township on the northern outskirts.

551
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:46.473
South Africa\'s worst racial disorder

552
00:33:46.473 --> 00:33:50.390
in 16 years still appears to be out of control.

553
00:33:58.453 --> 00:34:01.683
The news stunned and shocked us.

554
00:34:03.050 --> 00:34:05.550
To massacre children

555
00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:12.290
on the scale of June 16th and after

556
00:34:14.700 --> 00:34:18.893
was something utterly incredible, totally inhuman.

557
00:34:26.148 --> 00:34:28.565
(gun firing)

558
00:34:31.850 --> 00:34:36.630
In a way 1976 caught us unprepared.

559
00:34:41.731 --> 00:34:44.620
(tense music)

560
00:34:44.620 --> 00:34:47.160
The young people came out in the hundreds,

561
00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:48.433 line:15%
if not thousands.

562
00:34:49.388 --> 00:34:51.038 line:15%
We said, what do we do with them?

563
00:34:52.770 --> 00:34:56.364
Their numbers were so big and they kept on coming.

564
00:34:56.364 --> 00:34:58.031
They kept on coming.

565
00:35:03.730 --> 00:35:06.230
We didn\'t have the facilities to handle so many.

566
00:35:08.588 --> 00:35:11.493
It was fortunate that the uprising

567
00:35:14.152 --> 00:35:19.152
came at a time when two more States in southern Africa

568
00:35:20.910 --> 00:35:23.140
had become independent.

569
00:35:23.140 --> 00:35:28.140
Mozambique in 1975 and Angola also in 1975.

570
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:34.220
The immediate results was that we had now

571
00:35:34.220 --> 00:35:36.567
our own training camps in Angola.

572
00:35:37.537 --> 00:35:41.370 line:15%
(singing in foreign language)

573
00:35:53.044 --> 00:35:53.976
Are you prepared to fight?

574
00:35:53.976 --> 00:35:55.703
I\'m very much prepared to fight.

575
00:35:55.703 --> 00:35:57.898
I ask myself who will bring me freedom.

576
00:35:57.898 --> 00:36:00.481
And I tell myself it is myself.

577
00:36:01.411 --> 00:36:02.650
We wanted to be out of the country

578
00:36:02.650 --> 00:36:05.506 line:15%
for three or four months and come in.

579
00:36:05.506 --> 00:36:06.390 line:15%
Train, come back and fight.

580
00:36:06.390 --> 00:36:07.710 line:15%
That\'s all.

581
00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:10.680 line:15%
I remember Joe Modise saying to us,

582
00:36:10.680 --> 00:36:12.670 line:15%
the easiest thing for the ANC to do would be

583
00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:14.470
to train all of you and take you back

584
00:36:14.470 --> 00:36:17.713
to the borders of South Africa and say go in.

585
00:36:18.560 --> 00:36:20.673
But you\'ll be massacred in a day.

586
00:36:22.090 --> 00:36:23.090
First thing you\'ve got to tell them

587
00:36:23.090 --> 00:36:26.160
is that we looked at our struggle basically

588
00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:28.490
as a political struggle.

589
00:36:28.490 --> 00:36:32.090
And even the operation when you go home your main task

590
00:36:32.090 --> 00:36:34.933
is to educate people politically.

591
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:40.260
And we were not so keen to, to learn how this thing,

592
00:36:40.260 --> 00:36:43.970
we, we knew exactly what we wanted.

593
00:36:43.970 --> 00:36:46.410
Let me train in how to use a gun

594
00:36:46.410 --> 00:36:49.380
and then come back and shoot that policeman in my township.

595
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.230
Naturally young people are impatient.

596
00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:54.290
They want to do things now and quickly.

597
00:36:54.290 --> 00:36:56.560
So these old people are just wasting our time.

598
00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:59.720
They must give us these things and we\'ll fix it up.

599
00:36:59.720 --> 00:37:02.610
What we need to do is to take them on board you see,

600
00:37:02.610 --> 00:37:07.223 line:15%
but as much as possible Tambo himself would address them.

601
00:37:07.223 --> 00:37:09.990 line:15%
I was told that I was going to meet O.R. Tambo.

602
00:37:09.990 --> 00:37:14.080
He immediately says tell me more about South Africa,

603
00:37:14.080 --> 00:37:16.400
and how you feel, and what is happening there,

604
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:17.930
and what are your views.

605
00:37:17.930 --> 00:37:21.230
He makes me feel that whatever it is that

606
00:37:21.230 --> 00:37:24.553
I\'m going to be saying to him it is important.

607
00:37:25.890 --> 00:37:28.540
He came to address us and he sat down on the floor.

608
00:37:29.630 --> 00:37:32.020
You know when you\'re young and looking

609
00:37:32.020 --> 00:37:34.260
at this person in awe,

610
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.480
and there he is in this very smart suit,

611
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:38.470
he sits on the ground just like that.

612
00:37:38.470 --> 00:37:42.310
And we were impressed to see-these are revolutionaries.

613
00:37:42.310 --> 00:37:45.871 line:15%
He articulated his thoughts with precision.

614
00:37:45.871 --> 00:37:50.780 line:15%
You could see it\'s a person who says exactly what he means.

615
00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:56.610
And of course we also observed his brisk walk,

616
00:37:56.610 --> 00:37:59.730
the manner in which his eyes moved.

617
00:37:59.730 --> 00:38:04.730
And all of us were just awestruck by what,

618
00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:07.769
what we were seeing.

619
00:38:07.769 --> 00:38:09.102 line:15%
Members of Umkhonto we Sizwe

620
00:38:09.102 --> 00:38:10.941 line:15%
in our country comrades

621
00:38:10.941 --> 00:38:14.060 line:15%
you will remember the society is divided

622
00:38:14.060 --> 00:38:15.153 line:15%
along racial lines.

623
00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:20.324
We must not allow the enemy to determine

624
00:38:20.324 --> 00:38:21.963
the character of our struggle.

625
00:38:23.344 --> 00:38:27.511
Our struggle shall not proceed along racial lines.

626
00:38:30.166 --> 00:38:33.343
Our enemy is the white government in South Africa.

627
00:38:33.343 --> 00:38:35.900
And to get to our leadership in exile

628
00:38:35.900 --> 00:38:38.600 line:15%
and find these senior ANC leaders that are white.

629
00:38:38.600 --> 00:38:40.020 line:15%
How do I react to Slovo?

630
00:38:40.020 --> 00:38:41.450 line:15%
Slovo is my leader.

631
00:38:41.450 --> 00:38:44.720 line:15%
He\'s held in high regard in the ANC.

632
00:38:44.720 --> 00:38:47.450
So the clear cut color enemy

633
00:38:47.450 --> 00:38:52.450
was getting destroyed in our, in our young minds.

634
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:54.390
For young people like us coming

635
00:38:54.390 --> 00:38:58.700
from apartheid South Africa to see the kind of respect

636
00:38:58.700 --> 00:39:03.490
that a white person like Joe Slovo gave to Oliver Tambo,

637
00:39:03.490 --> 00:39:07.730
a black person, was also quite impressive and unique.

638
00:39:07.730 --> 00:39:10.170
And after a few years you see those cadres

639
00:39:10.170 --> 00:39:12.230
who came so hot begin to understand

640
00:39:12.230 --> 00:39:16.565
that the struggle is not a question of just taking a rifle

641
00:39:16.565 --> 00:39:19.523
and just , poom poom poom, shooting in Soweto

642
00:39:20.380 --> 00:39:22.556
or like you do in films.

643
00:39:22.556 --> 00:39:24.137
They understand that there\'s something

644
00:39:24.137 --> 00:39:25.737
deeper, more fundamental.

645
00:39:25.737 --> 00:39:28.446
You are the soldiers of our revolution

646
00:39:28.446 --> 00:39:31.740
and it is important to remember you are political soldiers.

647
00:39:31.740 --> 00:39:35.128
As political soldiers you\'ll be expected,

648
00:39:35.128 --> 00:39:39.461
like us who stand here, to dedicate your entire life

649
00:39:40.532 --> 00:39:44.949
to the struggle for the liberation of our motherland.

650
00:39:48.370 --> 00:39:52.614
Some of you will be assigned to fight in the country.

651
00:39:52.614 --> 00:39:56.364
Remember, those who confront the racist enemy

652
00:39:57.249 --> 00:40:00.163
in our country, your target of attack

653
00:40:01.891 --> 00:40:06.633
is the enemy\'s armed forces, the enemy\'s industrial space,

654
00:40:06.633 --> 00:40:08.883
his lines of communication.

655
00:40:12.696 --> 00:40:16.910 line:15%
I heard a lot about our guys going into the country,

656
00:40:16.910 --> 00:40:21.093 line:15%
being ambushed by the apartheid forces, and being killed.

657
00:40:24.850 --> 00:40:28.524
I remember one time we were being revolting adolescents

658
00:40:28.524 --> 00:40:31.824
and he said to us you have to understand something.

659
00:40:31.824 --> 00:40:34.223 line:15%
Young people of your age are dying.

660
00:40:35.130 --> 00:40:36.570 line:15%
They\'re soldiers.

661
00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:39.620 line:15%
They\'re fighting for the liberation of their country.

662
00:40:39.620 --> 00:40:41.403
And my job is to send them out.

663
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:44.640
Your age, children like you.

664
00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:48.655
He would tell me that I lived a life of luxury compared

665
00:40:48.655 --> 00:40:50.773
to the boys in the camps, but I knew that.

666
00:40:51.860 --> 00:40:55.180
And I asked him about it, because I saw his pain,

667
00:40:55.180 --> 00:40:59.450
and he said you know I\'m responsible to their parents,

668
00:40:59.450 --> 00:41:01.320
to their parents.

669
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:06.320
I send them into danger for a purpose.

670
00:41:07.790 --> 00:41:11.010
And so I\'m responsible for their parents.

671
00:41:11.010 --> 00:41:16.010
And each life, you know, mattered to him tremendously.

672
00:41:18.210 --> 00:41:23.210
So he did feel like their father sending them into battle.

673
00:41:24.180 --> 00:41:26.664
And it weighed heavily on him.

674
00:41:26.664 --> 00:41:29.340
You know, he\'s a father of many other children:

675
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:32.270
the children whose fathers are in jail,

676
00:41:32.270 --> 00:41:34.743
the children who have been orphaned during the struggle.

677
00:41:35.740 --> 00:41:39.090
And our children have learned to share their father

678
00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:41.290
with the other children.

679
00:41:41.290 --> 00:41:44.070
When he would come my mother and him would talk

680
00:41:44.070 --> 00:41:47.410
for hours through the night into the next morning.

681
00:41:47.410 --> 00:41:49.802
Sometimes I would hear them singing hymns

682
00:41:49.802 --> 00:41:53.750
for like three hours, seriously, three hours

683
00:41:53.750 --> 00:41:56.373
in their bedroom just singing hymns together.

684
00:41:59.558 --> 00:42:01.420
(singing in foreign language)

685
00:42:01.420 --> 00:42:04.640
He was married to the struggle and he had a very,

686
00:42:04.640 --> 00:42:08.380
very deep sense of duty and understanding

687
00:42:08.380 --> 00:42:11.163
of the importance of the role that he had to play.

688
00:42:12.050 --> 00:42:14.410
And we were tremendously proud of what he was doing.

689
00:42:14.410 --> 00:42:16.873
I would sometimes say to him, as he was leaving,

690
00:42:16.873 --> 00:42:19.320
\"Give them Hell, dad!\", you know.

691
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.010
And one time he came back into the house

692
00:42:22.010 --> 00:42:23.690
and he said, what do you mean?

693
00:42:23.690 --> 00:42:25.600
I said, you know, kill them,

694
00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:27.737
kill the bastards and all of this.

695
00:42:27.737 --> 00:42:30.747
And he said, \"No, no, that\'s not what we\'re about.

696
00:42:30.747 --> 00:42:32.217
\"These are South Africans.

697
00:42:32.217 --> 00:42:33.967
\"We\'re not fighting them as people.

698
00:42:35.127 --> 00:42:37.337
\"We\'re fighting the system of apartheid.\"

699
00:42:39.700 --> 00:42:44.700
The South African situation is an act of violence

700
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.200
against the majority: physical violence,

701
00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:53.503
psychic violence, spiritual violence.

702
00:42:54.450 --> 00:42:57.200
The world is expecting the apartheid system

703
00:42:57.200 --> 00:42:58.883
to be dropped, to be dismantled,

704
00:43:00.410 --> 00:43:04.423
and the indications are that it is there to stay.

705
00:43:06.150 --> 00:43:11.150
And so the people are putting on new energies

706
00:43:11.330 --> 00:43:13.393
into the struggle that has been going on.

707
00:43:14.580 --> 00:43:19.360
As soon as we intensified they got nervous.

708
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.500
P.W. Botha and his generals came out

709
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.570
with a strategy of total war.

710
00:43:25.570 --> 00:43:28.297
(whooshing)

711
00:43:28.297 --> 00:43:30.464
(booming)

712
00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:35.140
South Africa started coming out.

713
00:43:35.140 --> 00:43:37.143
The regime started coming out to attack

714
00:43:37.143 --> 00:43:40.190
what they called ANC bases outside.

715
00:43:40.190 --> 00:43:41.240
This was a new level.

716
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.460 line:15%
The states of Southern Africa must realize

717
00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:48.650 line:15%
that what they can do to us we can do to them,

718
00:43:49.769 --> 00:43:54.693 line:15%
only much more efficiently and effectively.

719
00:43:57.215 --> 00:43:59.140
(zooming)

720
00:43:59.140 --> 00:44:01.893 line:15%
They attacked Mozambique, Maputo, Matola raids.

721
00:44:03.410 --> 00:44:07.080
They would kidnap people in the Frontline States.

722
00:44:07.080 --> 00:44:08.957 line:15%
And they even went to war in Angola.

723
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.503
(somber music)

724
00:44:24.761 --> 00:44:26.740
They bombed infrastructure: bridges,

725
00:44:26.740 --> 00:44:29.820
railroad bridges, road bridges.

726
00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:33.010
They bombed petrol storage tanks.

727
00:44:33.010 --> 00:44:35.380
And of course one day at about 11

728
00:44:36.470 --> 00:44:40.549
on Saturday morning we heard bombs.

729
00:44:40.549 --> 00:44:43.120
Broo broo, broo broo.

730
00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:45.410 line:15%
The greatest shock of my life.

731
00:44:45.410 --> 00:44:47.110 line:15%
There was six hundred people dead.

732
00:45:00.696 --> 00:45:03.696
But that is the price we had to pay.

733
00:45:06.326 --> 00:45:08.220
So they risked their national independence,

734
00:45:08.220 --> 00:45:11.049
they risked their sovereignty, they risked their economy,

735
00:45:11.049 --> 00:45:13.360
they risked actually their whole future

736
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:15.875
by fighting apartheid.

737
00:45:15.875 --> 00:45:19.970 line:15%
Very few situations in history

738
00:45:19.970 --> 00:45:22.950 line:15%
where you\'ve seen so many poor countries

739
00:45:22.950 --> 00:45:25.750
which have just come out into freedom

740
00:45:25.750 --> 00:45:29.966
and then throw their lot in with a liberation struggle.

741
00:45:29.966 --> 00:45:34.049
(booming and machine gun firing)

742
00:45:36.525 --> 00:45:39.760
I remember the NEC meeting when the news arrived

743
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:42.090
in the middle of the meeting that that Maseru massacre

744
00:45:42.090 --> 00:45:42.953
had taken place.

745
00:45:44.730 --> 00:45:47.763
We were so incensed with that massacre.

746
00:45:48.980 --> 00:45:52.130
Oliver Tambo said to the meeting he is going

747
00:45:52.130 --> 00:45:54.210
to attend the funeral in Lesotho.

748
00:45:55.503 --> 00:45:57.650
Now Lesotho is surrounded by South Africa

749
00:45:57.650 --> 00:45:59.820
and there\'s no way to get in here except

750
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:03.240
to cross over land or fly over South African air space.

751
00:46:03.240 --> 00:46:04.707
And so first we tried to oppose him

752
00:46:04.707 --> 00:46:06.330
and he wouldn\'t listen to us.

753
00:46:06.330 --> 00:46:08.870
He said you can\'t talk about people

754
00:46:08.870 --> 00:46:13.327
not being intimidated if we the leaders are not there.

755
00:46:13.327 --> 00:46:15.497
And I have to be there.

756
00:46:15.497 --> 00:46:18.070
And the President of Mozambique, Samora Machel,

757
00:46:18.070 --> 00:46:20.697
heard this and he called O.R.

758
00:46:20.697 --> 00:46:23.130
\"Oliver you\'re not going to Lesotho.

759
00:46:24.375 --> 00:46:26.707
\"You, the President, the struggle depends on you.

760
00:46:26.707 --> 00:46:29.023
\"You\'re not going to take a reckless decision.

761
00:46:29.897 --> 00:46:32.867
\"So I\'m not going to allow you\", he said, \"to go.\"

762
00:46:34.080 --> 00:46:37.310
And O.R. again had to sit down and debate with Samora,

763
00:46:37.310 --> 00:46:39.667
the late Samora Machel, and prevailed.

764
00:46:40.788 --> 00:46:42.147
He said \"I am going.\"

765
00:46:42.147 --> 00:46:42.980
\"I am going.

766
00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:44.537
\"None of you are going to stop me.\"

767
00:46:52.936 --> 00:46:55.949
He went and he publicly addressed the funeral.

768
00:46:55.949 --> 00:46:57.838
Publicly addressed the funeral.

769
00:46:57.838 --> 00:46:59.364
We shall move in the direction dictated

770
00:46:59.364 --> 00:47:01.697
by the masses of our people.

771
00:47:06.687 --> 00:47:11.045 line:15%
Joe Slovo said to me one day you must talk to Oliver

772
00:47:11.045 --> 00:47:15.313 line:15%
because he\'s killing himself by his overwork.

773
00:47:16.572 --> 00:47:19.300
For instance, there\'s a man who comes to him

774
00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:22.610
in the camp in Lusaka and talks for 15 minutes

775
00:47:22.610 --> 00:47:27.513
about his mother-in-law\'s problems with her teeth.

776
00:47:28.650 --> 00:47:30.020
This is to the President-General

777
00:47:30.020 --> 00:47:31.893
of the African National Congress.

778
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:35.460
And he insists on seeing people.

779
00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:39.743
And you know, his system won\'t take it.

780
00:47:40.888 --> 00:47:44.150
And the next opportunity I spoke to Oliver

781
00:47:44.150 --> 00:47:46.037
and I said \"You know there\'s no purpose

782
00:47:46.037 --> 00:47:48.000
\"in your killing yourself.\"

783
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.047
And he said and \"You\'re always telling me

784
00:47:50.047 --> 00:47:55.047
\"about how estranged leaders become from their following.

785
00:47:55.607 --> 00:47:57.787
\"What do you want me to do if people want to see me?

786
00:47:57.787 --> 00:48:00.927
\"These are precisely the people with whom I ought

787
00:48:00.927 --> 00:48:02.767
\"to remain in communication.\"

788
00:48:03.690 --> 00:48:07.627
He said something that all of us remembered.

789
00:48:07.627 --> 00:48:12.187
\"I want to assure you that what remains of my health

790
00:48:12.187 --> 00:48:15.580
\"will be consumed by the struggle.\"

791
00:48:15.580 --> 00:48:20.260
Just that commitment has remained etched in my memory,

792
00:48:20.260 --> 00:48:22.923
about the purpose of life.

793
00:48:25.310 --> 00:48:29.103
And I think Oliver Tambo answers that beautifully.

794
00:48:31.590 --> 00:48:34.063
In the Eighties Oliver Tambo said

795
00:48:34.063 --> 00:48:35.717
\"This is a decade of liberation.\"

796
00:48:37.290 --> 00:48:42.290 line:15%
So this notion is there in the heads of all of us,

797
00:48:44.120 --> 00:48:47.750 line:15%
that this decade of the Eighties is a decade of liberation.

798
00:48:47.750 --> 00:48:52.290
We have got to keep going, a general build up

799
00:48:54.340 --> 00:48:56.320
of a massive force in our country

800
00:48:57.180 --> 00:48:59.213
that says no to apartheid.

801
00:49:01.590 --> 00:49:04.423
A new South Africa now, today.

802
00:49:06.440 --> 00:49:07.273
Not tomorrow.

803
00:49:09.508 --> 00:49:10.410
[Freedom Radio DJ] You are tuned to Radio Freedom,

804
00:49:10.410 --> 00:49:12.317
the voice of the African National Congress.

805
00:49:12.317 --> 00:49:15.960
The time has come that the rest of the black masses

806
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:17.290
of our country,

807
00:49:17.290 --> 00:49:19.970
all twenty-five million of us,

808
00:49:19.970 --> 00:49:24.137
should join in one determined offensive

809
00:49:24.137 --> 00:49:28.427
to make all of our country ungovernable.

810
00:49:30.669 --> 00:49:32.919
(shouting)

811
00:49:39.618 --> 00:49:42.451
(energetic music)

812
00:49:44.753 --> 00:49:46.081
The people are rising up,

813
00:49:46.081 --> 00:49:48.100
not just in the main urban centers,

814
00:49:48.100 --> 00:49:52.260
but in small, seldom heard of towns.

815
00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:53.453
It\'s spreading.

816
00:49:55.580 --> 00:49:58.420
Organizations were springing out.

817
00:49:58.420 --> 00:50:01.863
The unions were emerging in a more powerful way.

818
00:50:02.830 --> 00:50:07.390
Strikes became a feature of our struggle in this country.

819
00:50:07.390 --> 00:50:09.000
Youth organizations were mushrooming

820
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.763
all over the place, and as well as women\'s formations.

821
00:50:16.650 --> 00:50:17.958
It is a rejection,

822
00:50:17.958 --> 00:50:21.283
a mass rejection of the system,

823
00:50:22.370 --> 00:50:25.440
a demand for a new order that must spread

824
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:27.433
to envelope the whole country.

825
00:50:28.660 --> 00:50:30.260
Everybody must go on the attack.

826
00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:34.650
We are determined to be that generation

827
00:50:34.650 --> 00:50:37.087
that is going to create a new society.

828
00:50:37.087 --> 00:50:40.004
(crowd applauding)

829
00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:44.240
The struggle had reached a point in South Africa

830
00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:47.690
within the country where we could not provide

831
00:50:47.690 --> 00:50:50.300
effective leadership from a great distance.

832
00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:51.810
It needed senior people

833
00:50:51.810 --> 00:50:54.330 line:15%
from the National Executive level to come in

834
00:50:54.330 --> 00:50:56.340 line:15%
and live in South Africa and interact

835
00:50:56.340 --> 00:51:00.080 line:15%
with the forces and give political and military leadership.

836
00:51:00.080 --> 00:51:04.270
So Oliver and Slovo were to undertake the work

837
00:51:04.270 --> 00:51:06.270
of sending such people into the country.

838
00:51:08.230 --> 00:51:11.180
The idea was that we would make contact

839
00:51:11.180 --> 00:51:14.340
with people and ensure that those who were prepared

840
00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:15.730
to be involved in the struggle,

841
00:51:15.730 --> 00:51:18.420
and committed to the policy of the movement,

842
00:51:18.420 --> 00:51:22.720
got organized into viable, safe structures

843
00:51:22.720 --> 00:51:26.313
and did work: from printing inside the country,

844
00:51:27.910 --> 00:51:31.080
having political classes and discussion about policy

845
00:51:31.080 --> 00:51:32.410
and ways forward,

846
00:51:32.410 --> 00:51:35.020
interacting with the civic organizations

847
00:51:35.020 --> 00:51:36.800
that were sprouting in the country

848
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:38.570
so that they got leadership.

849
00:51:38.570 --> 00:51:42.220
Secondly, take people out for training,

850
00:51:42.220 --> 00:51:45.780
political and military and intelligence.

851
00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:49.350
And then those coming in from outside

852
00:51:49.350 --> 00:51:52.310
would have a structure into which they could be absorbed

853
00:51:52.310 --> 00:51:53.780
when they got into the country.

854
00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:56.440 line:15%
We began now to impact inside the country.

855
00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.850 line:15%
We\'re sending more cadres to engage the enemy

856
00:51:59.850 --> 00:52:01.083
in military operations.

857
00:52:02.740 --> 00:52:06.444
We went for their military headquarters.

858
00:52:06.444 --> 00:52:09.590
We attacked police stations at a number of points.

859
00:52:09.590 --> 00:52:14.570
We planted explosives and destroyed their installations.

860
00:52:15.528 --> 00:52:17.830
20 people were hurt in the latest bomb attack.

861
00:52:17.830 --> 00:52:20.920
Fifteen bombs have gone off in urban areas this year,

862
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:23.520
nearly half of them since the state of emergency began

863
00:52:23.520 --> 00:52:24.573
three weeks ago.

864
00:52:26.560 --> 00:52:29.903
Because of his personality, very peaceful and peaceable,

865
00:52:31.050 --> 00:52:32.790
his role in armed struggle sometimes

866
00:52:32.790 --> 00:52:35.610
is not fully appreciated.

867
00:52:35.610 --> 00:52:40.460
He would ensure that some symbolic military activity

868
00:52:40.460 --> 00:52:42.930
takes place in order to drive home

869
00:52:42.930 --> 00:52:45.360
a particular political message.

870
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:48.940 line:15%
Our armed actions were always directed

871
00:52:48.940 --> 00:52:50.773 line:15%
at mass mobilization.

872
00:52:52.070 --> 00:52:54.310
Always with our armed actions we\'re communicating

873
00:52:54.310 --> 00:52:59.310
with our people and saying they must fight on two fronts

874
00:52:59.720 --> 00:53:02.453
and combine two sectors of struggle:

875
00:53:03.671 --> 00:53:05.710
armed struggle and political action.

876
00:53:05.710 --> 00:53:09.093
These two complimented and supplemented each other.

877
00:53:11.590 --> 00:53:13.810
Of course they were beginning to feel our impact

878
00:53:13.810 --> 00:53:15.299
inside the country.

879
00:53:15.299 --> 00:53:17.620
The need to destroy the ANC anywhere

880
00:53:17.620 --> 00:53:20.830
where it reared its head,

881
00:53:20.830 --> 00:53:23.766
whether it\'s Botswana, Zambia, London.

882
00:53:23.766 --> 00:53:25.933
(booming)

883
00:53:29.530 --> 00:53:30.770
The offices in which we\'re sitting

884
00:53:30.770 --> 00:53:31.683
have been bombed.

885
00:53:32.550 --> 00:53:34.787
Does your wife worry about you?

886
00:53:34.787 --> 00:53:35.777
Well I\'m sure she does.

887
00:53:35.777 --> 00:53:37.060
She does.

888
00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:40.223
Every wife would.

889
00:53:41.355 --> 00:53:42.530
She does.

890
00:53:42.530 --> 00:53:43.410
The children do.

891
00:53:43.410 --> 00:53:44.360
Everybody else do.

892
00:53:44.360 --> 00:53:47.183
My colleagues worry about me, in the ANC.

893
00:53:48.430 --> 00:53:53.430
But I myself expect, I really do expect,

894
00:53:55.710 --> 00:53:59.883
that I will be killed by the regime or its agents.

895
00:54:01.124 --> 00:54:04.653 line:15%
There were definitely lots of agents

896
00:54:04.653 --> 00:54:08.150 line:15%
and they were very clever.

897
00:54:08.150 --> 00:54:11.800
And the Special Branch played them accordingly,

898
00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:15.830
so you can\'t get away from needing

899
00:54:15.830 --> 00:54:20.830
a very strict code of security.

900
00:54:20.850 --> 00:54:23.550 line:15%
So he was ever so isolated.

901
00:54:23.550 --> 00:54:27.060 line:15%
I remember once in Arusha, Tanzania

902
00:54:27.060 --> 00:54:31.360
I came to an hotel and he was with his bodyguards

903
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:33.850
on the upper floor and he could see nobody

904
00:54:33.850 --> 00:54:35.940
until I managed to get in.

905
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:37.800
And he was ever so relieved.

906
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.463
It was like seeing a prisoner.

907
00:54:40.910 --> 00:54:41.900
(tense music)
(phone ringing)

908
00:54:41.900 --> 00:54:44.390
One day I get a phone call,

909
00:54:44.390 --> 00:54:46.830
President Oliver Tambo on the line.

910
00:54:46.830 --> 00:54:48.920
He said we have a problem.

911
00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:51.570 line:15%
We have captured a number of agents

912
00:54:51.570 --> 00:54:55.230 line:15%
sent by Pretoria to destroy the organization

913
00:54:56.590 --> 00:54:58.950
and there\'s nothing in the statutes of the ANC

914
00:54:58.950 --> 00:55:00.700
about how we should deal with them.

915
00:55:02.650 --> 00:55:07.000
A week later I\'m in Lusaka, taken to the office,

916
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:09.483
and he said we use torture.

917
00:55:11.200 --> 00:55:12.550
With a bleak face, quietly.

918
00:55:13.750 --> 00:55:14.823
I can\'t believe it.

919
00:55:16.010 --> 00:55:17.210
We\'re fighting for freedom.

920
00:55:17.210 --> 00:55:18.143
We use torture.

921
00:55:25.150 --> 00:55:28.933
And he asked me to draft a code of conduct for the ANC.

922
00:55:30.750 --> 00:55:33.320
So that\'s how the code of conduct emerged.

923
00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:36.643
It was on Oliver Tambo\'s direction and instructions.

924
00:55:38.030 --> 00:55:42.140
Ethics might have been even more important

925
00:55:42.140 --> 00:55:44.810
to Oliver Tambo than politics.

926
00:55:44.810 --> 00:55:47.510
And it is his ethical approach to life

927
00:55:47.510 --> 00:55:49.250
that drove him to politics

928
00:55:49.250 --> 00:55:52.083
and made him the person that he was.

929
00:55:56.610 --> 00:56:00.180
The ANC must continue to make sure

930
00:56:00.180 --> 00:56:02.530
that our revolutionary struggle is revolutionary

931
00:56:02.530 --> 00:56:07.530
in every respect and obeys the rules of any revolution.

932
00:56:10.140 --> 00:56:12.700
Follows definite, defined rules.

933
00:56:12.700 --> 00:56:15.230
A revolutionary behaves in a certain kind of way

934
00:56:17.453 --> 00:56:19.020
and is distinguished and distinguishable

935
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.940
from the criminal, from the vigilante,

936
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:33.223
from the enemy agent.

937
00:56:34.370 --> 00:56:36.423
And he doesn\'t have to debase himself.

938
00:56:38.510 --> 00:56:41.333
It is the system who are the criminals of our country.

939
00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:47.557
We must destroy the system and then the criminals will go.

940
00:56:52.870 --> 00:56:54.753
I must be emphatic on this.

941
00:56:55.820 --> 00:56:58.583
I\'m going to keep order in South Africa

942
00:57:01.730 --> 00:57:04.080 line:15%
and nobody in the world is going to stop me

943
00:57:04.080 --> 00:57:05.233 line:15%
from keeping order.

944
00:57:06.871 --> 00:57:09.371
(guns firing)

945
00:57:15.250 --> 00:57:20.250
Before the end comes we expect rivers of blood to flow.

946
00:57:25.858 --> 00:57:28.163
The streams have started.

947
00:57:31.179 --> 00:57:36.179
And it will take the international community only.

948
00:57:38.560 --> 00:57:43.560
We are helpless to restrict the duration of the slaughter.

949
00:57:47.764 --> 00:57:51.887
ANC, ANC, ANC, ANC!

950
00:57:51.887 --> 00:57:53.647
The role that he played in forging

951
00:57:53.647 --> 00:57:58.210
one of the biggest global movements I think it\'s one

952
00:57:58.210 --> 00:58:01.430
of the major achievements that anyone globally

953
00:58:01.430 --> 00:58:02.283
had ever made.

954
00:58:09.543 --> 00:58:13.520 line:15%
All over the world were these anti-apartheid movements.

955
00:58:13.520 --> 00:58:16.323
I mean in India, and Japan, and Canada.

956
00:58:19.820 --> 00:58:22.603
So many people for the same cause.

957
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:27.937
Millions and millions it must have been.

958
00:58:27.937 --> 00:58:30.687
(dramatic music)

959
00:58:31.883 --> 00:58:34.460
It was the largest and most successful

960
00:58:34.460 --> 00:58:38.723
social justice movement of the 20th century.

961
00:58:43.970 --> 00:58:46.483
We had created a climate internationally.

962
00:58:47.490 --> 00:58:50.840 line:15%
It was directly related to what was happening at home.

963
00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:53.888 line:15%
As struggle escalated in the country,

964
00:58:53.888 --> 00:58:55.390 line:15%
you got greater support.

965
00:59:03.978 --> 00:59:08.834
There is a total onslaught against South Africa

966
00:59:08.834 --> 00:59:12.917
to destabilize our country and to make us give in

967
00:59:13.953 --> 00:59:17.567
and to make us accept dictates from outside.

968
00:59:17.567 --> 00:59:20.750
Irrespective of the international consequences

969
00:59:20.750 --> 00:59:23.520 line:15%
we will not be untrue to our forefathers,

970
00:59:23.520 --> 00:59:25.570 line:15%
to our beliefs, to our values.

971
00:59:25.570 --> 00:59:29.890 line:15%
Come what may we will resist these diabolical forces.

972
00:59:29.890 --> 00:59:32.970
It doesn\'t matter what is the cost.

973
00:59:32.970 --> 00:59:35.900
Progressively the regime is running

974
00:59:35.900 --> 00:59:40.253
into a deeper and deeper crisis:

975
00:59:40.253 --> 00:59:44.603
a political crisis, an economic crisis.

976
00:59:46.780 --> 00:59:49.040
And this is the result of the combination

977
00:59:50.050 --> 00:59:53.670
of these two forces: international pressure

978
00:59:53.670 --> 00:59:56.050
and internal struggle of the people.

979
00:59:59.452 --> 01:00:01.869
(chattering)

980
01:00:02.970 --> 01:00:07.670 line:15%
The forces in the world to isolate South Africa

981
01:00:07.670 --> 01:00:10.113 line:15%
was making it less and less credit worthy.

982
01:00:11.270 --> 01:00:13.619
The country was becoming, quote,

983
01:00:13.619 --> 01:00:17.803
unbankable and I wanted out.

984
01:00:26.535 --> 01:00:28.180
President Reagan has fought long and hard

985
01:00:28.180 --> 01:00:31.480
to prevent Congress from imposing new economic sanctions

986
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:32.760
against South Africa.

987
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:36.210
Recently, even leaders of his own party begged him to stop.

988
01:00:36.210 --> 01:00:37.070
He didn\'t.

989
01:00:37.070 --> 01:00:38.440
Today he lost.

990
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:39.870
The Senate joined the House

991
01:00:39.870 --> 01:00:41.723
in overriding Mr. Reagan\'s veto.

992
01:00:43.530 --> 01:00:47.080 line:15%
And if the United States could pass through that act

993
01:00:47.080 --> 01:00:49.423 line:15%
it had rippling effect.

994
01:00:53.580 --> 01:00:54.780 line:15%
General Motors pulled out.

995
01:00:54.780 --> 01:00:56.699 line:15%
Ford pulled out.

996
01:00:56.699 --> 01:00:58.130
A number of the pharmaceutical companies pulled out.

997
01:00:58.130 --> 01:01:00.330
The entertainment companies pulled out.

998
01:01:00.330 --> 01:01:01.797
The banks pulled out.

999
01:01:01.797 --> 01:01:05.330
It was a blow because one felt desperately isolated

1000
01:01:06.420 --> 01:01:08.423
and that left a sinking feeling.

1001
01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:11.130
Certainly in my stomach.

1002
01:01:11.130 --> 01:01:14.350
I was watching one day on television the deputy-governor

1003
01:01:14.350 --> 01:01:15.840
of the South African Reserve Bank.

1004
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.971
He said trade boycotts never affected us.

1005
01:01:19.971 --> 01:01:21.620
There\'s always been ways around that.

1006
01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:25.460
He said, but financial sanctions are killing us.

1007
01:01:25.460 --> 01:01:29.750
You know if you can\'t get loans rolled over,

1008
01:01:29.750 --> 01:01:32.873
and all sources of foreign exchange are denied you

1009
01:01:32.873 --> 01:01:35.556
and you\'re a modern industrial state of the sort,

1010
01:01:35.556 --> 01:01:36.910
you\'re in deep trouble.

1011
01:01:36.910 --> 01:01:40.680
And I think that quite literally,

1012
01:01:40.680 --> 01:01:43.453
the apartheid state was becoming bankrupt.

1013
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:51.670
Three South African business leaders flew

1014
01:01:51.670 --> 01:01:54.100 line:15%
to the neighboring country of Zambia today

1015
01:01:54.100 --> 01:01:57.200 line:15%
for unprecedented talks on the future of their country

1016
01:01:57.200 --> 01:01:59.100 line:15%
with black guerrilla leaders outlawed

1017
01:01:59.100 --> 01:02:00.910
by the South African government.

1018
01:02:00.910 --> 01:02:02.560
The businessmen, who control much

1019
01:02:02.560 --> 01:02:04.200
of South Africa\'s vast wealth,

1020
01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:06.523
were acting independently of their government.

1021
01:02:08.020 --> 01:02:09.330
I had the conventional view of the ANC

1022
01:02:09.330 --> 01:02:12.050
as the devil incarnate:

1023
01:02:12.050 --> 01:02:15.050
white hating, murderous, terrorist, communists,

1024
01:02:15.050 --> 01:02:16.760
Moscow-dominated puppets.

1025
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:19.450
I mean, this was the common perception of them.

1026
01:02:19.450 --> 01:02:21.140
The meeting was held behind the closed gates

1027
01:02:21.140 --> 01:02:23.870
of a game reserve in the dry bush of eastern Zambia.

1028
01:02:23.870 --> 01:02:26.220
The white businessmen represented the highest levels

1029
01:02:26.220 --> 01:02:28.890
of South Africa\'s non-government power structure.

1030
01:02:28.890 --> 01:02:31.050
A year ago, it would have been unthinkable.

1031
01:02:31.050 --> 01:02:34.003
It indicates business\' deep concern that the end is coming.

1032
01:02:36.160 --> 01:02:38.380
Naturally, the South African businessmen gravitated

1033
01:02:38.380 --> 01:02:41.572
towards one side of the circle and the ANC

1034
01:02:41.572 --> 01:02:42.770
on the other side of the circle.

1035
01:02:42.770 --> 01:02:46.640
And the ice was broken when Oliver Tambo made some quip

1036
01:02:46.640 --> 01:02:48.710
about the division, the apartheid

1037
01:02:48.710 --> 01:02:50.310
of the seating arrangements, if you liked.

1038
01:02:50.310 --> 01:02:52.090
At which stage everybody burst out laughing

1039
01:02:52.090 --> 01:02:52.993
and we mixed in.

1040
01:02:54.090 --> 01:02:57.130
The ANC Executive, at least a half of them,

1041
01:02:57.130 --> 01:02:59.987
were members of the South African Communist Party.

1042
01:02:59.987 --> 01:03:01.600
We were concerned about this.

1043
01:03:01.600 --> 01:03:03.710
You know we\'re businessmen, we\'re capitalists.

1044
01:03:03.710 --> 01:03:05.880
But they said that the communists

1045
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.930
on the ANC Executive were ANC members first

1046
01:03:08.930 --> 01:03:11.360
and Communist Party members second,

1047
01:03:11.360 --> 01:03:14.700
and that the ANC was not a communist organization.

1048
01:03:14.700 --> 01:03:18.040 line:15%
They used Sweden as an example of a model democracy.

1049
01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:19.500 line:15%
I was surprised at that.

1050
01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:20.750
It was obvious to me that the ANC

1051
01:03:20.750 --> 01:03:23.990
had an overwhelming nostalgia to return to South Africa,

1052
01:03:23.990 --> 01:03:26.080
which they were then unable to do.

1053
01:03:26.080 --> 01:03:30.143
And I found it very easy to like them on a personal level.

1054
01:03:34.201 --> 01:03:36.450
We admired the fact that this group

1055
01:03:36.450 --> 01:03:41.450
of business leaders decided to come to Lusaka

1056
01:03:42.390 --> 01:03:47.053
notwithstanding expressions of disapproval by PW Botha.

1057
01:03:48.415 --> 01:03:52.960
We thought it was a recognition on their part

1058
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:54.850
that it\'s not really going to be possible

1059
01:03:56.120 --> 01:03:58.673
to resolve the problems of South Africa

1060
01:03:59.580 --> 01:04:01.820
without involving the ANC.

1061
01:04:01.820 --> 01:04:03.710
No question that it was a turning point.

1062
01:04:03.710 --> 01:04:06.260
I think what happened is that we lit the fuse.

1063
01:04:06.260 --> 01:04:07.810
And then it just ran from there on.

1064
01:04:07.810 --> 01:04:10.140
And meetings with the ANC then became,

1065
01:04:10.140 --> 01:04:12.990
over a period of probably 18 months, flavor of the month.

1066
01:04:14.450 --> 01:04:17.050
We had a meeting with a group

1067
01:04:17.050 --> 01:04:19.610
of leading Afrikaaner personalities.

1068
01:04:19.610 --> 01:04:22.660
I remember them reporting that

1069
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.000
the then Minister of Finance

1070
01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.760
he had reported to Cabinet

1071
01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:31.940 line:15%
that indeed the whole system of apartheid

1072
01:04:31.940 --> 01:04:33.923 line:15%
was becoming financially unaffordable.

1073
01:04:35.380 --> 01:04:38.620
There was a meeting in my home in Walton-on-Thames

1074
01:04:38.620 --> 01:04:43.620
of Oliver, Thabo Mbeki, myself and Christopher Ball,

1075
01:04:44.840 --> 01:04:47.777
who was head of Barclays Bank in South Africa.

1076
01:04:47.777 --> 01:04:50.440
And the Chairman of Barclays Bank said

1077
01:04:50.440 --> 01:04:55.440
that by the year 1990 the country South Africa

1078
01:04:56.530 --> 01:04:59.150
must be well on the way towards the resolution

1079
01:04:59.150 --> 01:05:00.963
of this problem, of apartheid.

1080
01:05:02.070 --> 01:05:07.070
And Oliver shook Chris\' hand and said

1081
01:05:08.027 --> 01:05:13.027
\"I want to tell you how honored I am to have met you.\"

1082
01:05:13.850 --> 01:05:17.540
And my reaction was one of absolute shock.

1083
01:05:17.540 --> 01:05:22.033
If anyone was honored by that, Chris Ball was.

1084
01:05:23.080 --> 01:05:28.080
But for him, any white in Chris Ball\'s position

1085
01:05:28.580 --> 01:05:33.210
who could bring himself so far as to understand

1086
01:05:34.300 --> 01:05:38.303
what the Africans were fighting for deserved honoring.

1087
01:05:39.640 --> 01:05:42.833
He wasn\'t looking for enemies to smite.

1088
01:05:44.033 --> 01:05:46.837
His whole approach was build up the number of friends

1089
01:05:46.837 --> 01:05:51.837
you have and neutralize the enemies, and if necessary,

1090
01:05:53.130 --> 01:05:56.380
create space for the enemies now to enter into dialogue

1091
01:05:56.380 --> 01:05:58.611
and then transform and change.

1092
01:05:58.611 --> 01:06:03.363
And shortly after this Barclays disinvested.

1093
01:06:05.860 --> 01:06:08.250 line:15%
Good evening, one of Britain\'s biggest investors

1094
01:06:08.250 --> 01:06:10.770 line:15%
in South Africa, Barclays Bank, have announced

1095
01:06:10.770 --> 01:06:11.603
that they\'re selling up.

1096
01:06:11.603 --> 01:06:13.320
It\'s the largest pull-out of foreign business

1097
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:15.670
to date in South Africa, which has already seen-

1098
01:06:15.670 --> 01:06:18.000
Britain has done an about turn on its policy

1099
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.010
on South Africa.

1100
01:06:19.010 --> 01:06:21.200
It\'s offered to meet Oliver Tambo, the leader

1101
01:06:21.200 --> 01:06:23.330
of the African National Congress.

1102
01:06:23.330 --> 01:06:25.070
It\'ll be the first meeting between a minister

1103
01:06:25.070 --> 01:06:27.350 line:15%
and a representative of the organization,

1104
01:06:27.350 --> 01:06:28.963 line:15%
which is banned in South Africa.

1105
01:06:30.147 --> 01:06:30.982
Mr. Tambo, could we ask you to come

1106
01:06:30.982 --> 01:06:33.002
to the microphone, sir?

1107
01:06:33.002 --> 01:06:34.009
What are you all doing here?

1108
01:06:34.009 --> 01:06:35.859
We\'re hoping you\'re going to tell us something.

1109
01:06:35.859 --> 01:06:37.713
Well, thank you very much.

1110
01:06:37.713 --> 01:06:38.546
Thank you very much.

1111
01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:44.479
You have turned me into a little film star.

1112
01:06:44.479 --> 01:06:46.729
(laughing)

1113
01:06:47.930 --> 01:06:49.320
This man, Oliver Tambo,

1114
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:51.170 line:15%
who the Reagan administration once considered

1115
01:06:51.170 --> 01:06:52.710 line:15%
a communist and a terrorist,

1116
01:06:52.710 --> 01:06:54.950 line:15%
became a Washington VIP today,

1117
01:06:54.950 --> 01:06:57.460
a symbol of the administration\'s abrupt shift

1118
01:06:57.460 --> 01:07:00.300
from a policy of dealing exclusively with South Africa\'s

1119
01:07:00.300 --> 01:07:03.070
white minority government to opening a dialogue

1120
01:07:03.070 --> 01:07:05.720
with the black nationalists determined to destroy it.

1121
01:07:08.822 --> 01:07:11.930
He had a high sense of values, integrity,

1122
01:07:11.930 --> 01:07:16.930
a sharp mind, very strategic and also extremely diplomatic.

1123
01:07:17.370 --> 01:07:21.010
He\'s a terrific guy and we had a great time.

1124
01:07:21.010 --> 01:07:22.780
It was a good meeting from my standpoint.

1125
01:07:22.780 --> 01:07:24.160
I learned a lot.

1126
01:07:24.160 --> 01:07:27.480 line:15%
I learned a lot about the depth of feelings of the ANC.

1127
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:32.350 line:15%
I learned that the stereotype of communism,

1128
01:07:32.350 --> 01:07:36.540
terrorism was not anywhere near the mainstream

1129
01:07:36.540 --> 01:07:37.550
of their thinking.

1130
01:07:37.550 --> 01:07:42.060
He was in leadership not by accident.

1131
01:07:42.060 --> 01:07:46.690
He came into leadership because of the capacity

1132
01:07:46.690 --> 01:07:50.100
and the capabilities that he had as an individual.

1133
01:07:50.100 --> 01:07:54.350
And in a sense one can even argue that leaders

1134
01:07:54.350 --> 01:07:58.750 line:15%
of Oliver Tambo\'s caliber were so good

1135
01:07:58.750 --> 01:08:02.313 line:15%
that they helped raise the movement to their level.

1136
01:08:06.604 --> 01:08:11.500
Tambo\'s approach to the struggle

1137
01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:15.440
was a very organic interactive one.

1138
01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:20.440
And he understood the value of all dimensions.

1139
01:08:20.910 --> 01:08:23.650
We use the term four pillars of struggle:

1140
01:08:23.650 --> 01:08:25.137
the mass political,

1141
01:08:28.862 --> 01:08:29.695
the underground,

1142
01:08:33.220 --> 01:08:37.373 line:15%
MK activity reinforcing political,

1143
01:08:39.340 --> 01:08:41.120
and international solidarity

1144
01:08:41.120 --> 01:08:44.650
where he was a keynote speaker internationally

1145
01:08:44.650 --> 01:08:46.800
from the United Nations all over the world.

1146
01:08:49.750 --> 01:08:51.780
And finally this evening our Person of the Week,

1147
01:08:51.780 --> 01:08:53.040
Oliver Tambo the President

1148
01:08:53.040 --> 01:08:54.880
of the African National Congress.

1149
01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:57.490
What is the difference that Oliver Tambo

1150
01:08:57.490 --> 01:08:59.110
makes to the struggle?

1151
01:08:59.110 --> 01:09:01.500
Tell me what you think are your strengths.

1152
01:09:01.500 --> 01:09:04.973
My political strength I think lies in the truth.

1153
01:09:08.370 --> 01:09:10.450
I am simply what I am.

1154
01:09:10.450 --> 01:09:14.193
I don\'t try to be anything else.

1155
01:09:15.270 --> 01:09:16.103
You\'re described

1156
01:09:16.103 --> 01:09:18.100
as a reluctant revolutionary.

1157
01:09:18.100 --> 01:09:19.423
Is that just a cliché?

1158
01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:24.540
No, I think it is because

1159
01:09:25.556 --> 01:09:30.556
if being a revolutionary involves a fervent desire

1160
01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:35.823
and determination to see radical change I am that.

1161
01:09:37.310 --> 01:09:39.413
Do you ever have any time for yourself?

1162
01:09:40.290 --> 01:09:41.713
Not really.

1163
01:09:41.713 --> 01:09:42.546
Do you have a family?

1164
01:09:42.546 --> 01:09:43.379
I have.

1165
01:09:43.379 --> 01:09:45.110
Are they proud of their father?

1166
01:09:45.110 --> 01:09:46.870
I get the sense that they are immensely proud

1167
01:09:46.870 --> 01:09:47.703
of their father.

1168
01:09:51.160 --> 01:09:52.313
I get that impression.

1169
01:09:54.550 --> 01:09:55.523
They are.

1170
01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:59.270
Give us a prediction for the end of the decade.

1171
01:09:59.270 --> 01:10:01.250
Really as I see it

1172
01:10:03.890 --> 01:10:05.440
I will be back in South Africa.

1173
01:10:06.400 --> 01:10:08.060
I have a strong belief

1174
01:10:10.400 --> 01:10:14.140
that not only is it never going to be the same again

1175
01:10:16.190 --> 01:10:18.813
but that we are in fact moving to the new era.

1176
01:10:22.460 --> 01:10:24.890
I think there are many indications

1177
01:10:24.890 --> 01:10:26.940
that apartheid cannot hold on any longer.

1178
01:10:31.228 --> 01:10:33.728
(tense music)

1179
01:10:37.990 --> 01:10:39.613
Creating ungovernability.

1180
01:10:41.350 --> 01:10:46.350
Giving people courage so the mass actions should intensify.

1181
01:10:48.190 --> 01:10:51.460
But also sending a message that the ANC

1182
01:10:51.460 --> 01:10:53.680
has developed the capacity

1183
01:10:53.680 --> 01:10:56.800
where we could make the system dysfunctional.

1184
01:10:56.800 --> 01:11:00.500
I think it\'s that approach that sent the message

1185
01:11:00.500 --> 01:11:03.310
that if negotiations did not happen

1186
01:11:04.587 --> 01:11:07.187
we would then have a scorched earth in South Africa.

1187
01:11:18.050 --> 01:11:20.861
The negotiations are definitely coming.

1188
01:11:20.861 --> 01:11:21.710
We\'re certain.

1189
01:11:21.710 --> 01:11:24.690
The regime is bound to say we\'re ready to talk,

1190
01:11:24.690 --> 01:11:27.963
so O.R. says now let\'s prepare a proposal.

1191
01:11:29.320 --> 01:11:33.020
At this stage there\'s discussions going on in prison

1192
01:11:33.020 --> 01:11:35.500 line:15%
between Madiba and the government.

1193
01:11:35.500 --> 01:11:39.620 line:15%
When O.R. heard that there\'s some talks going on

1194
01:11:39.620 --> 01:11:40.920
he was deeply concerned.

1195
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:43.120
He said what is important is that the regime

1196
01:11:43.120 --> 01:11:45.633
must not have an opportunity to divide us.

1197
01:11:47.450 --> 01:11:50.390
I agreed with Oliver to develop

1198
01:11:50.390 --> 01:11:52.553
an entire new communications system.

1199
01:11:53.530 --> 01:11:58.530
And through that I linked Nelson Mandela with Oliver Tambo.

1200
01:12:00.090 --> 01:12:02.433
Now O.R. was just ecstatic.

1201
01:12:03.350 --> 01:12:05.780
He sent an exhaustive briefing

1202
01:12:05.780 --> 01:12:08.700
in which he outlined the dangers of negotiation,

1203
01:12:08.700 --> 01:12:11.120
what the different maneuvers are.

1204
01:12:11.120 --> 01:12:13.980
Nelson says I am talking to the regime

1205
01:12:13.980 --> 01:12:17.320
to negotiate with the ANC, not with me.

1206
01:12:17.320 --> 01:12:20.010
I am saying to them that the ANC is the ANC

1207
01:12:20.010 --> 01:12:22.933
represented by Tambo based in Lusaka.

1208
01:12:23.820 --> 01:12:28.820
We have said the first step, the very first one,

1209
01:12:30.550 --> 01:12:35.500
which would lead us to consider the possibility

1210
01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:40.500
of negotiations as a realistic way out of the situation

1211
01:12:43.030 --> 01:12:45.570
would be the release of Nelson Mandela

1212
01:12:45.570 --> 01:12:47.133
and other political prisoners.

1213
01:12:49.860 --> 01:12:52.860
The regime would keep you isolated from each other

1214
01:12:52.860 --> 01:12:54.600
and yet the struggle demanded

1215
01:12:54.600 --> 01:12:57.860
that you should never be disunited.

1216
01:12:57.860 --> 01:12:59.883
That unity was key to success.

1217
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:04.910
What is remarkable is that these men never lost faith

1218
01:13:04.910 --> 01:13:06.110
in each other.

1219
01:13:06.110 --> 01:13:09.140
That even totally isolated from each other

1220
01:13:09.140 --> 01:13:11.120
they would be able to be on the same

1221
01:13:11.120 --> 01:13:12.940
wavelength of thinking.

1222
01:13:12.940 --> 01:13:14.723
That\'s extremely unusual.

1223
01:13:18.550 --> 01:13:23.120 line:15%
A landmark point would be the drawing up

1224
01:13:23.120 --> 01:13:24.793 line:15%
of the Harare Declaration,

1225
01:13:25.730 --> 01:13:29.980
where the possibility of negotiating

1226
01:13:29.980 --> 01:13:34.410
rather than fighting to the bitter end arose.

1227
01:13:34.410 --> 01:13:37.800
The question was what do you put on the table?

1228
01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:40.313
What were you fighting for?

1229
01:13:40.313 --> 01:13:44.113
O.R. explained to us that people from all over the world

1230
01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:50.340
were asking, what does the ANC have in mind

1231
01:13:50.340 --> 01:13:53.400
for a future Constitution for South Africa?

1232
01:13:53.400 --> 01:13:54.680
We had the Freedom Charter,

1233
01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:58.010
but the Freedom Charter just set out a vision.

1234
01:13:58.010 --> 01:14:00.610
The big problem was the whites are there,

1235
01:14:00.610 --> 01:14:02.290
they\'re a small minority,

1236
01:14:02.290 --> 01:14:04.480
they\'ve treated the majority badly

1237
01:14:04.480 --> 01:14:07.610
and now they\'re fearful that if there\'s majority rule

1238
01:14:07.610 --> 01:14:09.520
they\'re going to be driven into the sea.

1239
01:14:09.520 --> 01:14:12.350
And how can a Constitution protect them?

1240
01:14:12.350 --> 01:14:15.440 line:15%
The things we were fearing in South Africa was that

1241
01:14:15.440 --> 01:14:18.290 line:15%
they would demand some kind of racial seats,

1242
01:14:18.290 --> 01:14:19.650
or racial franchise.

1243
01:14:19.650 --> 01:14:21.480
That if you want to give security to whites

1244
01:14:21.480 --> 01:14:23.450
who feel threatened give them some special seats,

1245
01:14:23.450 --> 01:14:24.853
give them some privileges.

1246
01:14:26.014 --> 01:14:27.060
And if the South African government

1247
01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:28.510
got the support of Britain and others

1248
01:14:28.510 --> 01:14:30.213
for those policies we were sunk.

1249
01:14:31.620 --> 01:14:35.410
The fact it didn\'t happen was also a reflection

1250
01:14:36.400 --> 01:14:39.210
of the astute diplomacy of Oliver Tambo,

1251
01:14:39.210 --> 01:14:41.830
of Thabo Mbeki and the people in exile

1252
01:14:41.830 --> 01:14:44.050
talking to these leaders.

1253
01:14:44.050 --> 01:14:48.600
We are all South African citizens of equal worth.

1254
01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:51.533
We are not talking about black majority.

1255
01:14:52.530 --> 01:14:57.530
We are talking about democratic majority

1256
01:14:59.530 --> 01:15:03.173
in a country comprising one people.

1257
01:15:04.070 --> 01:15:08.273
Not whites and blacks as such,

1258
01:15:09.150 --> 01:15:13.793
but simply the people of South Africa.

1259
01:15:15.130 --> 01:15:18.220
The rights of everybody are protected.

1260
01:15:18.220 --> 01:15:20.510
But not because you\'re black or white or brown,

1261
01:15:20.510 --> 01:15:23.200
because you\'re a person, a human being.

1262
01:15:23.200 --> 01:15:24.450
We take it for granted

1263
01:15:24.450 --> 01:15:26.363
but it wasn\'t taken for granted then.

1264
01:15:27.741 --> 01:15:32.160
And that was very much Oliver Tambo\'s core insistence

1265
01:15:32.160 --> 01:15:34.040
that really became foundational

1266
01:15:34.040 --> 01:15:35.903
to our whole constitutional order.

1267
01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:45.410
The idea that the Constitution should talk not only

1268
01:15:45.410 --> 01:15:49.260
about the one generation of human rights,

1269
01:15:49.260 --> 01:15:52.280
which is political, but also other generations

1270
01:15:52.280 --> 01:15:55.880
of human rights, social, economic, environmental,

1271
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:58.470
gender and so on, came directly,

1272
01:15:58.470 --> 01:16:01.790
that idea came directly from Oliver Tambo.

1273
01:16:01.790 --> 01:16:04.483
Tambo was in that sense,

1274
01:16:06.324 --> 01:16:08.000
I don\'t like to say the father of the Constitution

1275
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:11.530
because that gives a gender connotation to it,

1276
01:16:11.530 --> 01:16:16.400
but he was truly the key person in terms

1277
01:16:16.400 --> 01:16:19.640
of determining the fundamental features

1278
01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:21.000
of our new constitutional order,

1279
01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:22.783
at a time when it really mattered.

1280
01:16:31.830 --> 01:16:35.390
So the Harare Declaration is a reflection

1281
01:16:35.390 --> 01:16:39.620
of how O.R. thought you\'ve got to present a position.

1282
01:16:39.620 --> 01:16:42.200
We must avoid a situation where the process

1283
01:16:42.200 --> 01:16:44.740
of negotiating the future of South Africa

1284
01:16:44.740 --> 01:16:47.610
gets taken over by some other people.

1285
01:16:47.610 --> 01:16:50.000
That therefore we needed to tie the world

1286
01:16:51.340 --> 01:16:55.700
to our own vision of what should happen.

1287
01:16:55.700 --> 01:16:58.690
He had worked night and day tirelessly.

1288
01:16:58.690 --> 01:17:00.370
And he had written to consult people,

1289
01:17:00.370 --> 01:17:03.230
including Mandela, on the draft.

1290
01:17:03.230 --> 01:17:05.430
The Harare Declaration was more

1291
01:17:05.430 --> 01:17:08.083
than just a statement of principles.

1292
01:17:11.246 --> 01:17:13.190
It had great strategic and instrumental value

1293
01:17:13.190 --> 01:17:17.080 line:15%
in requiring Pretoria to take steps swiftly

1294
01:17:17.080 --> 01:17:19.200 line:15%
to release political prisoners,

1295
01:17:19.200 --> 01:17:20.987
allow the exiles to return,

1296
01:17:20.987 --> 01:17:24.153 line:15%
and permit free political activity.

1297
01:17:28.884 --> 01:17:31.010
And he had said we are preparing this

1298
01:17:31.010 --> 01:17:34.570
as a strategic perspective on negotiations,

1299
01:17:34.570 --> 01:17:37.763
but I don\'t want it to be seen as an ANC document.

1300
01:17:38.730 --> 01:17:41.940
I want the OAU to take it to the United Nations,

1301
01:17:41.940 --> 01:17:43.800
to have the United Nations adopt it

1302
01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:46.023
as the United Nations document.

1303
01:17:46.860 --> 01:17:49.900
Because if we do it as an ANC document

1304
01:17:49.900 --> 01:17:51.400
already people will oppose it.

1305
01:17:52.440 --> 01:17:55.790
We want the whole world behind this perspective

1306
01:17:55.790 --> 01:17:57.930
of the negotiated solution.

1307
01:17:57.930 --> 01:17:59.020
He\'d been traveling

1308
01:17:59.020 --> 01:18:00.580
throughout the Frontline States,

1309
01:18:00.580 --> 01:18:05.000
and further afield, to meticulously brief

1310
01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:09.680
every single leader about the ANC\'s change of tact.

1311
01:18:09.680 --> 01:18:14.333
He didn\'t spare himself one iota.

1312
01:18:15.880 --> 01:18:19.090
We then contacted our own people at home here, UDF,

1313
01:18:19.090 --> 01:18:22.260
to say to them you people need to be part of this,

1314
01:18:22.260 --> 01:18:27.247
come to the meeting of the OAU which will approve this.

1315
01:18:27.247 --> 01:18:30.270
That was O.R.\'s crowning achievement,

1316
01:18:30.270 --> 01:18:34.630
because he steered the process that would say

1317
01:18:34.630 --> 01:18:38.230
in spite of all the dangers this is how South Africa

1318
01:18:38.230 --> 01:18:41.323
should move through negotiations to a democracy.

1319
01:18:42.343 --> 01:18:45.093
(dramatic music)

1320
01:18:51.310 --> 01:18:53.675
O.R. returned to Lusaka,

1321
01:18:53.675 --> 01:18:56.680
got the Harare Declaration virtually signed and sealed

1322
01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:58.010
ready for formal approval

1323
01:19:00.722 --> 01:19:04.093
and one day before that meeting he has the stroke.

1324
01:19:05.623 --> 01:19:08.206
(somber music)

1325
01:19:13.505 --> 01:19:17.700
In the camp it was not whether he had suffered,

1326
01:19:17.700 --> 01:19:19.413
it was like he has died.

1327
01:19:20.430 --> 01:19:22.390
I mean we were in mourning I don\'t know

1328
01:19:22.390 --> 01:19:23.753
for how many months.

1329
01:19:26.200 --> 01:19:30.100
The whole movement was so concerned

1330
01:19:30.100 --> 01:19:31.753
and depressed and worried.

1331
01:19:32.780 --> 01:19:36.290
You know things were now beginning to happen.

1332
01:19:36.290 --> 01:19:39.927
That stroke came about through the hard work he put in

1333
01:19:39.927 --> 01:19:44.010
on the Harare document, the Harare Accord,

1334
01:19:44.010 --> 01:19:46.560
the whole negotiation approach.

1335
01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:47.820
He was very sharp.

1336
01:19:47.820 --> 01:19:49.743
His mind was still very, very sharp.

1337
01:19:51.130 --> 01:19:55.113
And it left his speech behind.

1338
01:19:56.370 --> 01:20:00.600
You could see his ideas, you could see him talking,

1339
01:20:00.600 --> 01:20:04.170
but he\'s still trying to phrase a sentence

1340
01:20:04.170 --> 01:20:07.663
when actually he\'s ahead in his thought.

1341
01:20:08.933 --> 01:20:10.133
It was very frustrating.

1342
01:20:10.990 --> 01:20:12.943
I was the chief rep then in Stockholm.

1343
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:15.680
I said well let me talk with the Swedes

1344
01:20:15.680 --> 01:20:18.150
and see if they could invite O.R. to Sweden

1345
01:20:18.150 --> 01:20:20.743
so that the doctors can really work on him.

1346
01:20:21.710 --> 01:20:24.880
He was ever so popular among all the other patients

1347
01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:28.020
being rehabilitated from their strokes.

1348
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:28.990
He helped them.

1349
01:20:28.990 --> 01:20:30.540
He talked to them.

1350
01:20:30.540 --> 01:20:33.220
He managed to, even though he knew just a little Swedish,

1351
01:20:33.220 --> 01:20:37.230
but he always managed to comfort them and console them.

1352
01:20:37.230 --> 01:20:39.023
And it was quite touching.

1353
01:20:40.606 --> 01:20:43.106
(light music)

1354
01:20:45.610 --> 01:20:48.700
Even after his stroke, without a hitch,

1355
01:20:48.700 --> 01:20:50.810
the Harare Declaration was adopted,

1356
01:20:50.810 --> 01:20:53.840
taken to the United Nations, endorsed there.

1357
01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:58.810
And that is why in negotiating with the apartheid regime

1358
01:20:58.810 --> 01:21:01.513
we had a blueprint that was on the table and known.

1359
01:21:02.350 --> 01:21:05.010
So if you really want the architect

1360
01:21:05.010 --> 01:21:08.653
of the South African transition then it\'s Oliver Tambo.

1361
01:21:12.210 --> 01:21:16.950
You need two things an iniquitous regime alive.

1362
01:21:16.950 --> 01:21:21.110
You need an inadequate resistance to it

1363
01:21:22.050 --> 01:21:27.050
and you need a confident, united backing for the regime.

1364
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:32.163
And apartheid lost both virtually together.

1365
01:21:33.209 --> 01:21:34.459
Interrelatedly.

1366
01:21:35.310 --> 01:21:37.300 line:15%
I am now in a position to announce

1367
01:21:37.300 --> 01:21:40.030 line:15%
that Mr. Nelson Mandela will be released

1368
01:21:40.030 --> 01:21:43.110
at the Victor Verster Prison on Sunday

1369
01:21:43.110 --> 01:21:46.593
the 11th of February at about three p.m.

1370
01:21:47.933 --> 01:21:52.350
(joyful singing in foreign language)

1371
01:22:10.795 --> 01:22:13.045
(cheering)

1372
01:22:23.139 --> 01:22:25.722
(somber music)

1373
01:22:35.042 --> 01:22:39.520
And they came here because of Oliver Tambo, to see him.

1374
01:22:39.520 --> 01:22:41.463
That was the first journey abroad.

1375
01:22:43.906 --> 01:22:45.456
It was an emotional occasion.

1376
01:22:46.300 --> 01:22:49.304
It was like, is it true?

1377
01:22:49.304 --> 01:22:51.070
Are you out of prison?

1378
01:22:51.070 --> 01:22:51.903
Is it true?

1379
01:22:51.903 --> 01:22:55.080
Is that you comrade Oliver Tambo?

1380
01:22:55.080 --> 01:23:00.080
Oliver could walk; talked with great difficulty.

1381
01:23:01.304 --> 01:23:04.560
And they mostly embraced each other

1382
01:23:04.560 --> 01:23:07.020
and they stood hand in hand and they just beamed

1383
01:23:07.955 --> 01:23:11.130
like two happy children seeing each other

1384
01:23:11.130 --> 01:23:13.733
for after such an enormously long time.

1385
01:23:15.140 --> 01:23:19.053
Madiba would come towering and oh, comrade.

1386
01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:23.800
All the speeches each one of them has made

1387
01:23:24.882 --> 01:23:28.080
will never be as meaningful as that first hug.

1388
01:23:33.840 --> 01:23:35.810
Oh it was sweet to see them together.

1389
01:23:35.810 --> 01:23:37.670
They were like boys.

1390
01:23:37.670 --> 01:23:40.790
It\'s like, you know, because they were both old men

1391
01:23:40.790 --> 01:23:42.830
but it was as if they were just back

1392
01:23:42.830 --> 01:23:44.880
to being young men again.

1393
01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:48.290
Oh it was wonderful to see the excitement.

1394
01:23:48.290 --> 01:23:50.500
And they just bluh, bluh, bluh, bluh, you know,

1395
01:23:50.500 --> 01:23:51.900
chat, chat, chat, chat, chat.

1396
01:23:51.900 --> 01:23:54.890
And oh there was so much catching up to do.

1397
01:23:54.890 --> 01:23:57.270
And they were joking with each other.

1398
01:23:57.270 --> 01:24:01.600
After 27 years they haven\'t talked directly to each other.

1399
01:24:01.600 --> 01:24:05.803
They have so much ground to cover they would never sleep.

1400
01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:10.650
The only way to make them sleep was to separate them,

1401
01:24:10.650 --> 01:24:11.607
painful as it was.

1402
01:24:19.352 --> 01:24:21.036
And there was this beautiful little scene

1403
01:24:21.036 --> 01:24:22.690
that played out as we were all leaving,

1404
01:24:22.690 --> 01:24:23.853
because they led us.

1405
01:24:26.752 --> 01:24:28.920
And Dad says to Uncle Nelson, \"After you\",

1406
01:24:28.920 --> 01:24:30.240
as they\'re going through this door.

1407
01:24:30.240 --> 01:24:32.187
He says, \"No, no, no, after you\".

1408
01:24:33.370 --> 01:24:35.516
He says, \"No, I insist, after you.\"

1409
01:24:35.516 --> 01:24:36.607
And they kept this up.

1410
01:24:36.607 --> 01:24:39.480
And everybody else was in fits of laughter

1411
01:24:39.480 --> 01:24:41.830
because neither of them would go through first.

1412
01:24:43.440 --> 01:24:45.683
For me it symbolized the respect, you know,

1413
01:24:46.890 --> 01:24:48.463
the love between them.

1414
01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:57.670
When they left my father said to my mom

1415
01:24:57.670 --> 01:24:58.883
it\'ll be five years.

1416
01:25:01.468 --> 01:25:04.080
Now 30 years later we\'re on a plane

1417
01:25:04.080 --> 01:25:07.660
going back with him to South Africa.

1418
01:25:07.660 --> 01:25:09.700
It was magic.

1419
01:25:09.700 --> 01:25:11.663
It was answered prayer.

1420
01:25:14.290 --> 01:25:15.280
Literally as we came

1421
01:25:15.280 --> 01:25:17.020
across the border from Botswana

1422
01:25:17.020 --> 01:25:19.357
the pilot announced to the plane

1423
01:25:19.357 --> 01:25:21.617
\"Ladies and gentlemen we have now entered the borders

1424
01:25:21.617 --> 01:25:22.930
\"of South Africa.\"

1425
01:25:22.930 --> 01:25:27.060
Everybody started crying and cheering: my dad, my mum.

1426
01:25:27.060 --> 01:25:30.254
And it was perhaps the most emotional plane journey

1427
01:25:30.254 --> 01:25:31.633
of our lives.

1428
01:25:36.086 --> 01:25:38.336
(cheering)

1429
01:25:41.429 --> 01:25:43.511
The airport was at a stand still.

1430
01:25:43.511 --> 01:25:46.163
There were crowds and crowds of people.

1431
01:26:07.208 --> 01:26:09.625
(chattering)

1432
01:26:21.954 --> 01:26:24.403
But the fact that he was there and he was waving,

1433
01:26:28.731 --> 01:26:31.500
and he was, he seemed to be in very good health,

1434
01:26:31.500 --> 01:26:33.667
was very, very gratifying.

1435
01:26:34.747 --> 01:26:37.830
Tambo, Tambo, Tambo, Tambo!

1436
01:26:42.160 --> 01:26:45.993
(singing in foreign language)

1437
01:27:16.515 --> 01:27:21.010
Comrades and friends, I wish

1438
01:27:24.258 --> 01:27:28.127
to pay a special tribute

1439
01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:35.800
to all of you here and to many more around the world.

1440
01:27:37.340 --> 01:27:42.340
Finally I want to thank my wife Adelaide

1441
01:27:45.551 --> 01:27:46.620
and my family.

1442
01:27:46.620 --> 01:27:49.037
(applauding)

1443
01:27:52.240 --> 01:27:56.950
They gave me the love and the support

1444
01:27:58.110 --> 01:28:01.803
I could not have survived without.

1445
01:28:05.241 --> 01:28:06.364
(applauding)

1446
01:28:06.364 --> 01:28:08.003
Amandla!
Awethu!

1447
01:28:08.003 --> 01:28:09.181
Amandla!
Awethu!

1448
01:28:09.181 --> 01:28:10.660
Amandla!
Awethu!

1449
01:28:10.660 --> 01:28:12.327
Amandla!
Awethu!

1450
01:28:13.339 --> 01:28:15.756
(applauding)

1451
01:28:16.834 --> 01:28:18.250
The electoral commission has reported

1452
01:28:18.250 --> 01:28:20.990
that it is satisfied in announcing the election

1453
01:28:20.990 --> 01:28:24.053
of comrade Nelson Mandela to the post of president.

1454
01:28:24.053 --> 01:28:26.803
(crowd cheering)

1455
01:28:29.887 --> 01:28:31.804
You have entrusted me

1456
01:28:36.043 --> 01:28:40.140
with the presidency of the ANC.

1457
01:28:40.140 --> 01:28:43.453
It will not be very easy for me to follow

1458
01:28:44.847 --> 01:28:48.950
the giant footsteps of comrade O.R.

1459
01:28:48.950 --> 01:28:53.003
He paved the way forward with gold:

1460
01:28:54.800 --> 01:28:59.723
the gold of his humanity, his warmth,

1461
01:29:00.580 --> 01:29:04.410
his democratic spirit, tolerance,

1462
01:29:04.410 --> 01:29:09.380
and above all, intellectual brilliance,

1463
01:29:09.380 --> 01:29:14.380
which in the end outwitted the racists in this country.

1464
01:29:16.967 --> 01:29:19.800
No struggle depends on one person,

1465
01:29:22.423 --> 01:29:26.446
but there are exceptions to every rule.

1466
01:29:26.446 --> 01:29:29.029
Comrade O.R. is that exception.

1467
01:29:31.170 --> 01:29:34.840
There is not enough rain in the skies

1468
01:29:36.640 --> 01:29:41.640
for us to be able to shower on him

1469
01:29:42.013 --> 01:29:43.363
the honor that he deserves.

1470
01:29:45.143 --> 01:29:47.893
(crowd cheering)

1471
01:29:48.932 --> 01:29:52.765
(singing in foreign language)

1472
01:30:03.658 --> 01:30:08.630
Things didn\'t go the way they were supposed to go.

1473
01:30:08.630 --> 01:30:11.213 line:15%
(somber music)

1474
01:30:23.635 --> 01:30:25.885
So he didn\'t see democracy.

1475
01:30:34.480 --> 01:30:37.563
Let all of us who live say

1476
01:30:39.229 --> 01:30:43.829
that while we live the ideas for which Oliver Tambo

1477
01:30:43.829 --> 01:30:47.246
lived, sacrificed, and died will not die.

1478
01:30:49.847 --> 01:30:54.847
We have it in our power to remake South Africa

1479
01:30:55.229 --> 01:30:57.646
into what he wanted it to be:

1480
01:30:58.868 --> 01:31:00.785
free, just, prosperous,

1481
01:31:05.167 --> 01:31:08.084
at peace with itself and the world.

1482
01:31:10.233 --> 01:31:11.983
We will not fail you.

1483
01:31:15.181 --> 01:31:17.753
The whole of Africa lost something when he died.

1484
01:31:20.050 --> 01:31:22.453
Oliver Tambo was in a class of his own.

1485
01:31:23.500 --> 01:31:25.973
We have lost a truly great man.

1486
01:31:27.984 --> 01:31:30.234
(cheering)

1487
01:31:43.770 --> 01:31:46.353
(bright music)

1488
01:31:49.210 --> 01:31:52.570
What I personally would be certain of

1489
01:31:54.779 --> 01:31:59.240
is that under the leadership of an Oliver Tambo

1490
01:31:59.240 --> 01:32:03.000
you wouldn\'t have the kind of divisions

1491
01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:06.383
that the ANC has been experiencing.

1492
01:32:07.620 --> 01:32:10.910
Oliver Tambo\'s character would have been

1493
01:32:10.910 --> 01:32:14.300
his force of example under current conditions

1494
01:32:14.300 --> 01:32:16.820
that would have discouraged some of the tendencies

1495
01:32:16.820 --> 01:32:18.810
that we\'re experiencing today.

1496
01:32:18.810 --> 01:32:21.473
That is something that we need to take from his life.

1497
01:32:22.460 --> 01:32:25.123
We can learn, as young people,

1498
01:32:26.650 --> 01:32:30.220
that leadership is not about being elected,

1499
01:32:30.220 --> 01:32:33.470
about chest thumping.

1500
01:32:33.470 --> 01:32:36.483
It\'s about what comes out of you,

1501
01:32:37.440 --> 01:32:42.440
what it is that you put into society for a better life.

1502
01:32:42.490 --> 01:32:44.253
And O.R. was that kind of person.

1503
01:32:45.490 --> 01:32:50.469
I think every leader who wants to be accepted as a leader,

1504
01:32:50.469 --> 01:32:52.860
if they were to learn from O.R.

1505
01:32:52.860 --> 01:32:57.033
it would be that integrity is paramount.

1506
01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:03.220
The attributes of Tambo as a diplomat, debater,

1507
01:33:03.220 --> 01:33:08.220
strategist, good politician, sportsman in his time,

1508
01:33:09.200 --> 01:33:13.023
swimmer, horseman, a musician,

1509
01:33:15.700 --> 01:33:18.050
a really talented but ultimately

1510
01:33:18.050 --> 01:33:20.133
just such a good human being.

1511
01:33:22.329 --> 01:33:24.912 line:15%
(somber music)

1512
01:33:38.240 --> 01:33:42.060
When we cast our vote we cast our vote in Wattville,

1513
01:33:42.060 --> 01:33:43.910
which is where of course my parents had lived

1514
01:33:43.910 --> 01:33:45.850
before they went in to exile.

1515
01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:48.500
So it was me and my brother and sister and my mother.

1516
01:33:48.500 --> 01:33:52.350
It was a real privilege to be able to do it there

1517
01:33:52.350 --> 01:33:54.190
and to remember him.

1518
01:33:54.190 --> 01:33:56.430
And of course his grave was not far from us

1519
01:33:56.430 --> 01:33:58.673
so we felt that he was there with us.

1520
01:34:07.063 --> 01:34:08.530
The most important thing that I learned from my father

1521
01:34:08.530 --> 01:34:12.390
is that you must never sit still for injustice.

1522
01:34:12.390 --> 01:34:14.050
It doesn\'t matter, it could be someone jumping

1523
01:34:14.050 --> 01:34:16.460
in front of someone else in a queue.

1524
01:34:16.460 --> 01:34:20.150
Don\'t keep quiet, because when you start to get used

1525
01:34:20.150 --> 01:34:22.210
to keeping quiet you\'ll never open your mouth.

1526
01:34:22.210 --> 01:34:24.040
It does cause you to reflect a lot

1527
01:34:24.040 --> 01:34:25.610
and think about the life you\'ve had

1528
01:34:25.610 --> 01:34:27.673
when your father passes, you know.

1529
01:34:28.719 --> 01:34:31.433
And all the things that could have been

1530
01:34:31.433 --> 01:34:33.533
if it had been a normal life.

1531
01:34:35.770 --> 01:34:37.523
But once they\'re gone they\'re gone.

1532
01:34:39.320 --> 01:34:40.860
So I cherish the memories.

1533
01:34:40.860 --> 01:34:43.060
I still, when I go to his grave, talk to him

1534
01:34:43.930 --> 01:34:44.970
because my mother used to.

1535
01:34:44.970 --> 01:34:48.394
She\'d tell my father about how Dali\'s doing,

1536
01:34:48.394 --> 01:34:50.240
and how Thembi\'s doing, and Tselane,

1537
01:34:50.240 --> 01:34:53.650
and this staff member, and this one, and the driver.

1538
01:34:53.650 --> 01:34:55.730
And that\'s been our family tradition.

1539
01:34:55.730 --> 01:34:59.240
And now that they\'re both in that grave I speak

1540
01:34:59.240 --> 01:35:01.200
to both of them.

1541
01:35:01.200 --> 01:35:05.160
And what is beautiful is that my children now

1542
01:35:05.160 --> 01:35:06.343
do the same thing.

1543
01:35:57.435 --> 01:36:01.268
(singing in foreign language)