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[upbeat music]

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Please welcome our
panel of Power Dykes.

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Frances Stevens, publisher
and editor-in-chief

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of "Deneuve," the hottest
lesbian magazine.

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REPORTER: "Deneuve," the
leading lesbian magazine....

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-There wasn't a glossy magazine
for lesbians. Anywhere!

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-She decided one day
I'm gonna make one.

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That's total rock-n-roll.

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I love my job!
[kiss, laughter]

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I love my job. I love my job.

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-There hadn't been a lesbian
lifestyle magazine before.

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-"Deneuve" gave the community
the gift of connection in a time

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when it wasn't
okay to be a lesbian.

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-We were excited
because it was like

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all the other magazines,

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which in 1990,
that did not happen.

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-This magazine was
really gonna change things.

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-I know lesbians,
including myself,

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who collected
every issue.

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-One of the principles of
social change for lesbians

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has been visibility.

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-Lesbian visibility is
absolutely essential

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if we want anyone
coming of age now to think

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that there's a
culture worth joining.

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-I definitely would go
to the bookstore

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and read "Curve" magazine.

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-Whoever was in
"Curve", that was it.

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That's how you knew
what was going on.

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-Like the latest
musicians, the latest artists.

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-Yep!

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-Franco just explodes
on the scene with pride

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and with elegance and honesty.

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-Just to bring a magazine to
the newsstands so that lesbians

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could see a little bit
of themselves reflected

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on the pages required a lot of
courage and tremendous grit,

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and no doubt,
significant sacrifice.

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[wheels rolling
lightly along sidewalk]

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[buzz of scooter motor,
dog's tags clinking]

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[car door opens]

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-Can I take your tea?
-Oh, thank you.

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Up, up.

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Whoo!
Your paws are wet.

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[engine rumbles]

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-Oh, right on the dress.

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Okay.

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What's going on?

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-I got this email from Silke.

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She wants to talk.

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Doesn't sound good.

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-Are you all right?
-Yeah.

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-Okay.

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Can I have a kiss?

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Can I have a better one?

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Thank you.
-Of course.

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[many conversations
throughout the lobby]

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[gentle guitar music]

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It's really cool seeing
this dichotomy of really,

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like, those people in the lobby.

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Was that a mother and her child?

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Or was that just an older
woman [laughing] and a teenager?

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-I don't know.

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I don't know, but I like that
you used the word "dichotomy."

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-Ahh!!! [laughs]

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[video call rings]

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-Can you hear me?

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-I can hear you,
but I can't see you.

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-Oh.
-Oh!

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Now I can see you.

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Now you're jumping
all over the place.

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So, what's been
going on over there?

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Your email was
a little alarming.

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-Well, the one that said,
"I don't know if we'll

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be in business in a year."
I guess that one.

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-What do you need me to do?
What can I do to be helpful?

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-Mmhmm.

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-You know, something has to...
has to shift in order

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for "Curve" to keep going
in whatever format that is.

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-Yes.

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-I think she's lost.

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-Mm.

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Yeah. And who am I

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to point fingers for
things that I believe are

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not the right decision that
she's made along the way?

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-Are you kidding me?!

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Who are you?!

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-I lost the right to criticize.

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Are you biting your lip?
-A little bit.

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[quiet laugh]
Yeah, I don't, I don't....

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You know, it's like, in the last
24 hours, I heard this thing

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that I never wanted to hear
that the magazine

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could be coming to an end.

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Should it come to an end?

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Or should it change
into something else?

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-Right.
-So, what does it become?

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I don't know.
I really don't.

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-So, then I guess the big
question is, do you wanna be

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part of figuring out what it is?

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[pensive music]

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GERALDO: Hi, everybody,
and welcome to a show

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that's all about power dykes.
[applause]

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They are here,
and they are queer.

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Frances Stevens, at 26 years
old, how long have you been

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a self-described lesbian?

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-A self-described lesbian.

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I was actually married for
three and a half years.

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-Ah, I didn't know.

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And may the great
spirit watch over you, amen.

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[applause]

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FRANCO: It was a really
expensive, elaborate,

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beautiful, amazing day.

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I was living the fairy tale.

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Here was this great guy.

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Everything was
great with my family.

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And I had no idea
that I was gay.

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[pensive music fades
into "Jesse's Girl"]

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I didn't know any out gay
people when I was growing up.

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There was one character on a
TV show that was a gay guy.

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I went to school at San
Francisco State University.

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There was one prerequisite
called Variations

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in Human Sexuality.

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It's like as if somebody
hit me over the head

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with a baseball bat.

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Like they explained
what being a lesbian was.

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I just knew, all of a
sudden, that that was me.

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It was like somebody
just said, "Wake up!"

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♪ Why can't I find
a woman like that? ♪

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Wait a second.

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The fairy tale has
just been blown up.

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What do I do?

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[somber music]

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I think we should do
away with gays if possible.

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You can't hold hands in public.

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You can't be
affectionate in public.

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It's a hard road.

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We have got nothing
behind us legally.

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-I was shell-shocked to work
the phone lines at the National

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Center for Lesbian Rights and
to take call after call from

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lesbians, and also gay men,
who had been kicked out of

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their families, lost custody of
their kids, been fired from

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their jobs, been stripped of
a sense of hope and future.

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I could not believe how devoid
of just the most basic sense of

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belonging and dignity existed
for LGBT people in this country.

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You had Don't Ask Don't Tell.

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REPORTER: Gays could
reveal their status

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only at their own risk.

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Being homosexual is
still grounds for dismissal.

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-We need to protect our
social and moral foundations.

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KATE: You had Bill Clinton
signing

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The Defense of Marriage Act.

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REPORTER: States are
not obliged to recognize

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the legal gay marriage
of another state.

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KATE: You did not have openly
gay, queer elected officials.

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You did not have celebrities
who were out and proud.

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We did not see
ourselves represented

00:10:46.288 --> 00:10:49.541
in any positive mainstream way.

00:10:49.541 --> 00:10:52.503
-I love you!
-Come on.

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-Cindy, what's wrong with you?
-What do you mean?

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-All this touching and
hugging girls and, "I love you."

00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:05.808
Boy, are you strange.
-Well, I didn't mean anything.

00:11:05.808 --> 00:11:07.601
-I'll just bet.

00:11:07.601 --> 00:11:11.021
You better think
about what you mean. [tsk]

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JEN: Frank, what if
this magazine goes

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out of business
in the next year?

00:11:23.075 --> 00:11:25.202
FRANCO: It's very
likely that it could.

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-And?
-And will people care?

00:11:30.165 --> 00:11:33.460
I don't know what other
people think, you know?

00:11:33.460 --> 00:11:40.301
The magazine was a way, it was a
vehicle for lesbians to disperse

00:11:40.301 --> 00:11:44.513
information to other lesbians.
Now, anyone can do a blog.

00:11:44.513 --> 00:11:47.808
Anyone can have their
own YouTube channel.

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It's much more immediate.

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It gives way more
access to the people.

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I think the year I started
the magazine there were

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over 700 magazines
founded that year.

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I remember hearing a
statistic that there were like

00:12:05.701 --> 00:12:07.995
6 or 7 of those left.

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30 years! That's a
long time, you know?

00:12:16.962 --> 00:12:19.214
-I guess we'll see what
people think tomorrow.

00:12:20.341 --> 00:12:23.635
[high energy music]

00:12:24.636 --> 00:12:27.222
[happy crowds cheering]

00:12:34.563 --> 00:12:36.648
-Is anybody gonna
come to our panel?

00:12:36.648 --> 00:12:38.901
-[laughs]
-Maybe no one will come.

00:12:46.658 --> 00:12:48.243
-Hey!
-Hey!!

00:12:48.243 --> 00:12:49.828
-Hey, Andrea.
Nice to meet you.

00:12:49.828 --> 00:12:51.455
-Yeah, nice to meet you too.

00:12:51.455 --> 00:12:54.208
We thought we would start
just with a quick introduction.

00:12:54.208 --> 00:12:57.419
Franco Stevens, who's the woman
who started "Curve" Magazine,

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which is the longest-running,
best-selling lesbian

00:13:00.297 --> 00:13:01.799
magazine in the world.

00:13:01.924 --> 00:13:05.803
[room fills with applause,
cheers]

00:13:05.803 --> 00:13:08.847
When I started the magazine,
it was a big controversy:

00:13:08.847 --> 00:13:11.975
Do I put the word "lesbian"
on the cover?

00:13:11.975 --> 00:13:14.061
And women were like,
"You can't do that.

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No bookstores will carry it.

00:13:15.479 --> 00:13:18.565
I can't be seen
buying this thing."

00:13:18.565 --> 00:13:23.529
I mean, I can't even verbalize
today how much I was ridiculed

00:13:23.529 --> 00:13:26.949
and bashed, even from within
our own community, by putting

00:13:26.949 --> 00:13:28.867
the word "lesbian" on the cover.

00:13:28.867 --> 00:13:34.540
And I just wanna know by a show
of hands, how many of you are

00:13:34.540 --> 00:13:40.003
still embracing of that or okay
if people identify as lesbian?

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Can you raise your hand?

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That's way more than I thought.

00:13:44.591 --> 00:13:47.261
How many of you
think it's outdated

00:13:47.261 --> 00:13:49.346
and doesn't represent
our community?

00:13:49.346 --> 00:13:52.433
A couple people.
Thank you for being honest.

00:13:58.397 --> 00:14:00.482
It's made a difference.
It's made an impact.

00:14:00.482 --> 00:14:03.360
Why do we wanna erase
it from our history?

00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.946
-I, personally, would never use
it to describe myself because

00:14:05.946 --> 00:14:08.657
I feel like it's been co-opted
by straight men

00:14:08.657 --> 00:14:11.493
as this overly sexualized term.

00:14:11.493 --> 00:14:14.705
FRANCO: We've heard from
multiple women of a certain age

00:14:14.705 --> 00:14:17.499
[laughter] who are feeling like
they're becoming invisible,

00:14:17.499 --> 00:14:21.128
like they're being cast aside.

00:14:21.128 --> 00:14:24.006
-I use either lesbian or
queer interchangeably.

00:14:24.006 --> 00:14:27.217
But a lot of folks in Gen Z are
actually more likely to identify

00:14:27.217 --> 00:14:29.428
as queer or pan or bi.

00:14:29.428 --> 00:14:32.264
And there's nothing wrong with
that, but again, it's this idea,

00:14:32.264 --> 00:14:34.183
is the word exclusionary?

00:14:34.183 --> 00:14:36.310
SEVERAL: Yes. Yeah.

00:14:36.310 --> 00:14:38.854
-Some lesbians spaces can be
super inclusive, but there is

00:14:38.854 --> 00:14:41.773
also a history of
lesbians not being so inclusive.

00:14:41.773 --> 00:14:44.526
-Yeah.
-I identify as a trans woman.

00:14:44.526 --> 00:14:47.029
And I'm not super comfortable
with the word "lesbian,"

00:14:47.029 --> 00:14:51.617
but I do feel safe using
"queer" because I feel like

00:14:51.617 --> 00:14:53.160
it is a broader term.

00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:56.747
It is sort of a, I know that
queer spaces are safe spaces.

00:14:56.747 --> 00:14:58.582
FRANCO: I can
totally understand that.

00:14:58.582 --> 00:15:02.252
You know, a lot of old-school
lesbians are trans exclusionary

00:15:02.252 --> 00:15:05.047
radical feminists.
We call them TERFS.

00:15:05.047 --> 00:15:07.049
-I think "lesbian" is an
important word 'cause

00:15:07.049 --> 00:15:09.176
it describes
exactly who you are.

00:15:09.176 --> 00:15:12.971
But inside the group,
there's a really hot and heavy

00:15:12.971 --> 00:15:14.348
discussion about it.

00:15:14.348 --> 00:15:17.184
-The only word that
anybody seems to globally have

00:15:17.184 --> 00:15:20.062
an issue with is the one
word that women can own

00:15:20.062 --> 00:15:21.688
for themselves that
is about women.

00:15:21.688 --> 00:15:23.148
-Exactly.

00:15:23.148 --> 00:15:25.108
-I totally understand that
the word "lesbian" can feel

00:15:25.108 --> 00:15:28.320
exclusionary to a woman
who loves women

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.197
who doesn't identify
as a lesbian.

00:15:30.197 --> 00:15:33.534
But that's the one word
that we have that is only ours

00:15:33.534 --> 00:15:35.661
and nobody else's.

00:15:35.661 --> 00:15:38.330
ANDREA: So, I actually just came
out to my abuela in December.

00:15:38.330 --> 00:15:41.416
And I was like,
"Abuela, soy lesbiana."

00:15:41.416 --> 00:15:44.795
And she's just like...
"¿¡En serio!?"

00:15:44.795 --> 00:15:46.129
[laughter]

00:15:46.129 --> 00:15:48.632
And that was it.
She's just like, "Really!"

00:15:48.632 --> 00:15:50.217
I was like, "Oh, you know."

00:15:50.217 --> 00:15:52.636
Like, "I knew that there was no
guy ever good enough for you,

00:15:52.636 --> 00:15:54.346
but now it all makes sense."
I was like....

00:15:54.346 --> 00:15:57.432
[laughter, applause]

00:15:57.432 --> 00:15:59.935
I was so shocked.

00:15:59.935 --> 00:16:02.020
And the worst
comment she said was like,

00:16:02.020 --> 00:16:04.273
"But vaginas are so much work."
And I was just like....

00:16:04.273 --> 00:16:06.233
[boisterous laughter]

00:16:06.233 --> 00:16:11.488
Like, I somehow ended up
here in this conversation.

00:16:11.488 --> 00:16:14.908
By being visibly queer and being
visibly Latinx, I can hopefully

00:16:14.908 --> 00:16:17.536
make it easier for younger
folks in my family and other

00:16:17.536 --> 00:16:19.121
folks in my community.

00:16:19.121 --> 00:16:22.040
Regardless of whatever word you
choose or what label you want to

00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:24.960
attribute to yourself,
literally being visible

00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:26.211
is the most important
thing you can be.

00:16:26.211 --> 00:16:29.131
[applause]

00:16:29.131 --> 00:16:30.632
ANDREA: You know what's funny?

00:16:30.632 --> 00:16:32.843
I didn't pick up a "Curve"
magazine till I was in college.

00:16:32.843 --> 00:16:35.095
And I literally picked it up
when I was in a journalism class

00:16:35.095 --> 00:16:37.014
my freshman year.
I was like, what is this?

00:16:37.014 --> 00:16:39.349
And I just got so excited
because, as it is, I was just so

00:16:39.349 --> 00:16:42.269
excited to see a magazine about
women that wasn't sexualized.

00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:45.564
You know, going and hearing all
these women say, "I'm too scared

00:16:45.564 --> 00:16:48.483
to use the word 'lesbian'," or
"I don't use the word 'lesbian'

00:16:48.483 --> 00:16:53.280
because...I don't feel safe
doing it," makes me think that,

00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:55.449
God, there's so much
more work to be done.

00:16:55.449 --> 00:16:57.743
-The reason why "lesbian"
gets so much heat, I think

00:16:57.743 --> 00:16:59.828
is many things. I think
it's because it is seen

00:16:59.828 --> 00:17:02.039
as being political,
women owning their identity.

00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.791
Like that one person said,
it's the one label that's ours.

00:17:04.791 --> 00:17:06.293
-Mm.

00:17:06.293 --> 00:17:08.837
-But I do think also it's
because of that loud minority

00:17:08.837 --> 00:17:12.132
that has that reputation
of being exclusionary.

00:17:12.132 --> 00:17:16.136
FRANCO: I made the magazine
to say however you choose to

00:17:16.136 --> 00:17:19.514
present yourself, you're
still a part of this community.

00:17:19.514 --> 00:17:23.018
But a magazine has
a limited distribution.

00:17:23.018 --> 00:17:25.354
Like there's other ways
for lesbians to connect

00:17:25.354 --> 00:17:27.939
besides a print magazine.

00:17:27.939 --> 00:17:30.067
We can never be
too visible, right?

00:17:30.067 --> 00:17:31.818
And that's because they've
wanted us to be invisible

00:17:31.818 --> 00:17:35.280
for so long that any type
of visibility is radical.

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:37.407
It's political.

00:17:37.407 --> 00:17:39.493
[somber music]

00:17:39.493 --> 00:17:42.037
[tv static]

00:17:42.037 --> 00:17:46.291
Hilton head, South Carolina.
Step this way, please.

00:17:50.295 --> 00:17:51.922
-You know what...?

00:17:53.340 --> 00:17:56.593
-We drove to beach week.
We rented a house.

00:17:59.721 --> 00:18:02.516
Blaine came storming
into the living room.

00:18:03.892 --> 00:18:06.395
He was screaming...

00:18:06.395 --> 00:18:08.814
"My wife is a dyke."

00:18:08.814 --> 00:18:11.274
Like it stung his
tongue to even say it.

00:18:12.275 --> 00:18:15.195
[gulls calling,
somber music continues]

00:18:16.071 --> 00:18:19.324
FRANCO: When my husband
outed me to my family,

00:18:19.324 --> 00:18:23.495
I felt like it was
my story to tell.

00:18:23.495 --> 00:18:28.834
That was my decision to tell
my family when I was ready.

00:18:30.585 --> 00:18:32.587
Ugh.

00:18:32.587 --> 00:18:38.301
He had just kind of blown up
my world, which meant

00:18:38.301 --> 00:18:40.095
that I never had to do it.

00:18:40.095 --> 00:18:44.224
But it was kind of something
that was taken away from me.

00:18:47.018 --> 00:18:49.438
ROBIN: I don't think
Frank lied intentionally.

00:18:49.438 --> 00:18:52.858
I think she needed to
come to terms with it herself.

00:18:52.858 --> 00:18:55.652
But not telling my parents
when she did figure it out,

00:18:55.652 --> 00:18:57.154
that was hard.

00:18:57.154 --> 00:19:01.783
If you felt this way, you
should not have gotten married.

00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:07.497
[echoing voices
from the recording]

00:19:07.497 --> 00:19:11.376
[family singing
"Dayenu," Passover song]

00:19:16.006 --> 00:19:17.507
-I think it was like
a shocking thing,

00:19:17.507 --> 00:19:20.761
like this is something
that they did wrong.

00:19:20.761 --> 00:19:23.388
You know, nobody
wanted to have the gay kid.

00:19:24.514 --> 00:19:26.266
FRANCO: I grabbed my
car keys, and I walked out.

00:19:26.266 --> 00:19:27.893
And that was it.
That was the end.

00:19:27.893 --> 00:19:31.146
I just took what was
on my back and left.

00:19:36.276 --> 00:19:38.361
So, I didn't have
anywhere to go.

00:19:40.572 --> 00:19:42.574
And I lived in my car.

00:19:43.825 --> 00:19:47.162
And it was humiliating
for me, and I didn't want

00:19:47.162 --> 00:19:49.873
anyone to know.
It was bad.

00:19:52.209 --> 00:19:53.877
After about a month,
I called the house.

00:19:53.877 --> 00:19:57.672
And my mom picked up,
and I said, "I know that

00:19:57.672 --> 00:20:00.258
this isn't what you want for me.

00:20:00.258 --> 00:20:04.888
Can you please lend me $500
so I can get a place to live?"

00:20:06.598 --> 00:20:10.477
NANNY: I said,
"You made your bed. I'm sorry.

00:20:10.477 --> 00:20:13.855
I've spent all the
money on you I can do.

00:20:13.855 --> 00:20:17.526
Do what you have to do
to make your own way,

00:20:17.526 --> 00:20:20.278
but I cannot support you."

00:20:21.613 --> 00:20:23.949
I felt like I was
completely alone.

00:20:25.367 --> 00:20:28.620
[pensive music]

00:20:29.871 --> 00:20:32.165
The victim of what many
people say was a hate crime

00:20:32.165 --> 00:20:34.292
in Wyoming this
morning has died.

00:20:34.292 --> 00:20:37.295
REPORTER: Shepard, a gay man,
was allegedly beaten,

00:20:37.295 --> 00:20:38.922
left to die.

00:20:38.922 --> 00:20:43.093
-It was very hard to be out
and open in the late '80s.

00:20:43.093 --> 00:20:44.803
There was a
history of gay bashing.

00:20:46.513 --> 00:20:49.057
-It was nothing to
walk down the street and

00:20:49.057 --> 00:20:51.643
have somebody
smack you or hit you.

00:20:51.643 --> 00:20:54.396
Once, I had a guy
spit in my face.

00:20:54.396 --> 00:20:56.731
-We are
ostracized by society.

00:20:56.731 --> 00:20:58.441
They call you "dyke."
They spit on you.

00:20:59.442 --> 00:21:01.486
They think that you're,
they think that you're fat,

00:21:01.486 --> 00:21:02.654
and they think
that you're ugly.

00:21:02.654 --> 00:21:04.447
And that's because
that's the image that's

00:21:04.447 --> 00:21:06.241
been projected about us.

00:21:07.158 --> 00:21:09.703
KATE: These two women
hiking The Appalachian Trail,

00:21:09.703 --> 00:21:13.039
a man identified them
as a lesbian couple.

00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.709
He ended up murdering
one of the women

00:21:15.709 --> 00:21:17.752
while they slept in their tent.

00:21:20.171 --> 00:21:23.550
It's a stone's throw,
in terms of history, away

00:21:23.550 --> 00:21:25.844
from where we sit right now.

00:21:28.513 --> 00:21:31.558
[birdsong,
dogs in the distance]

00:21:35.937 --> 00:21:39.983
FRANCO: I still really want
"Curve" in whatever form

00:21:39.983 --> 00:21:43.403
to continue, you know,
if it's still needed.

00:21:44.487 --> 00:21:47.574
I think what I need to do is
find some young activists,

00:21:47.574 --> 00:21:50.869
find young people, people
who are like what I was

00:21:50.869 --> 00:21:53.246
like at 25 and 30.

00:21:53.246 --> 00:21:55.582
Who are they?
What are their goals?

00:21:55.582 --> 00:21:57.709
What are they
bringing to the community?

00:21:57.709 --> 00:22:00.587
What do they need?
What does the community need?

00:22:00.587 --> 00:22:04.716
And then maybe, if we talk to
some of them, we can get an idea

00:22:04.716 --> 00:22:07.636
of what the mission of
the magazine, or the mission

00:22:07.636 --> 00:22:09.679
of this project, should be.

00:22:13.642 --> 00:22:16.895
This is a poem called
"Dear Straight People"

00:22:16.895 --> 00:22:18.438
by Denice Frohman.

00:22:18.438 --> 00:22:20.774
Apparently, it won
the World Poetry Slam.

00:22:21.775 --> 00:22:25.362
Dear Straight People,
[audience chuckles]

00:22:25.362 --> 00:22:27.781
Who do you think you are?

00:22:27.781 --> 00:22:29.491
Do you have to make it
so obvious that

00:22:29.491 --> 00:22:31.868
I make you uncomfortable?
Why do I make you uncomfortable?

00:22:31.868 --> 00:22:33.244
Do you know that
makes me uncomfortable?

00:22:33.244 --> 00:22:35.914
Now we both uncomfortable.
[laughter]

00:22:35.914 --> 00:22:39.417
Dear Straight People,
Sexuality and gender?

00:22:39.417 --> 00:22:41.795
Two different things
[cheers, fingersnaps]

00:22:41.795 --> 00:22:43.964
combined in many different ways.

00:22:43.964 --> 00:22:46.675
If you mismatch your socks,
you understand.

00:22:46.675 --> 00:22:50.095
Dear Straight People, Kissing
my girlfriend in public without

00:22:50.095 --> 00:22:54.099
looking to see who's around is a
luxury I do not fully have yet.

00:22:54.099 --> 00:22:57.185
But tonight, I am drunk in my
freedom, grab her hand on

00:22:57.185 --> 00:22:59.896
the busiest street corner in
Philadelphia, zip my fingers

00:22:59.896 --> 00:23:02.440
into hers and press our lips
firmly, until we melt

00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.318
their stares into a
standing ovation, imagine

00:23:05.318 --> 00:23:09.531
that we are in a sea of smiling
faces, even when we're not

00:23:09.531 --> 00:23:12.575
and when we're not, we start
shoveling, digging deep into

00:23:12.575 --> 00:23:14.786
each other's eyes we say,
"Hey Baby, can't nothing

00:23:14.786 --> 00:23:18.289
stop this tonight" 'cause
tonight, this world is broken

00:23:18.289 --> 00:23:21.209
and we're the only thing
that's gonna keep it together.

00:23:21.209 --> 00:23:23.712
[cheers, applause]
JEN: Damn.

00:23:23.712 --> 00:23:26.131
FRANCO: Yeah,
pretty powerful huh?

00:23:30.552 --> 00:23:33.638
-Just the significance of the
magazine for so many years has

00:23:33.638 --> 00:23:38.435
meant a lot to a lot of queer
folks, a lot of LGBT folks.

00:23:38.435 --> 00:23:39.978
It meant a lot to me.

00:23:39.978 --> 00:23:42.731
It was the first magazine that
I saw as a young kid walking

00:23:42.731 --> 00:23:44.733
around New York City, and
I was like, "What's that?"

00:23:44.733 --> 00:23:46.067
And seeing women on the cover.

00:23:46.067 --> 00:23:50.530
And I'm like, became a lot
more curious about

00:23:50.530 --> 00:23:51.781
sorta just the community.

00:23:51.781 --> 00:23:53.783
It was a way for us to
connect to each other.

00:23:53.783 --> 00:23:55.452
And so, it's important for
young people to know that

00:23:55.452 --> 00:23:57.871
this magazine's a part
of their lineage, too.

00:23:57.871 --> 00:24:01.958
FRANCO: You know, the first time
that I saw you, I just remember

00:24:01.958 --> 00:24:05.253
feeling that
total feel of power.

00:24:05.253 --> 00:24:10.300
Like, "Wow! This person is
speaking to me."

00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:13.344
And then I imagined what
would it be like if I was 20,

00:24:13.344 --> 00:24:15.972
and I was
hearing you go get it.

00:24:15.972 --> 00:24:21.186
I was just so blown away
that I was like, "This is where

00:24:21.186 --> 00:24:23.438
I hope our community's going."

00:24:23.438 --> 00:24:26.107
-Young people were sort of
messaging me from all over

00:24:26.107 --> 00:24:31.279
the world saying, "I found this
poem, and I came out to my mom."

00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:34.449
Or you know,
"I came out to myself."

00:24:36.409 --> 00:24:38.912
One of the reasons I'm
drawn to work with young people

00:24:38.912 --> 00:24:42.415
is because I believe
in their wisdom.

00:24:42.415 --> 00:24:47.045
Poetry is a way to fall in love
with the power of your voice.

00:24:48.129 --> 00:24:51.216
-Why do my parents
despise so much?

00:24:51.216 --> 00:24:55.720
Why couldn't I be the
"daughter" they wanted.

00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:57.305
Why can't you be
like your cousin?

00:24:57.305 --> 00:25:00.600
Why can't you be like
most "normal" girls?

00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:02.852
I'm sorry I like girls.

00:25:02.852 --> 00:25:05.897
They saw it as a sickness
that was able to be cured.

00:25:05.897 --> 00:25:07.357
The guilt is unbearable.

00:25:20.537 --> 00:25:22.288
[sniffs back tears]

00:25:27.252 --> 00:25:28.795
[snapping in support]

00:25:28.795 --> 00:25:32.507
DENICE: There are students on
this campus who may not even

00:25:32.507 --> 00:25:36.469
know that they're queer or
questioning yet, but maybe 5,

00:25:36.469 --> 00:25:40.098
10 years from now will look
back and see how courageous

00:25:40.098 --> 00:25:41.975
and visible you're living
your truth and will be

00:25:41.975 --> 00:25:43.893
inspired to do the same.

00:25:43.893 --> 00:25:46.896
What I'm saying is that your
impact extends beyond this room.

00:25:49.149 --> 00:25:51.359
-What does queer
love look like to you?

00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.905
DENICE: Unapologetic. Radical.
Liberated.

00:25:55.905 --> 00:25:57.824
[snapping]

00:25:57.824 --> 00:26:01.536
It looks like a harbor.
It looks like a heaven.

00:26:01.536 --> 00:26:03.454
I love the word "queer" because
I feel like it encompasses

00:26:03.454 --> 00:26:06.249
both my sexuality and my
gender presentation, right?

00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:10.587
My queerness is what my
womanhood looks like on me

00:26:10.587 --> 00:26:14.215
as much as it is who I'm with.

00:26:14.215 --> 00:26:17.760
And it's really the ultimate
risk but also the ultimate and

00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:21.389
greatest joy and the most
radical love I've ever known.

00:26:21.389 --> 00:26:23.183
That's what queer love is to me.

00:26:23.183 --> 00:26:26.102
[snapping fills the room]

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:32.525
FRANCO: When I left my
marriage, it was scary.

00:26:32.525 --> 00:26:35.486
But at least I was free.

00:26:36.487 --> 00:26:38.865
Where I really wanted to work
was A Different Light Bookstore.

00:26:38.865 --> 00:26:43.953
This was the gay bookstore in
the gayest street in America.

00:26:43.953 --> 00:26:46.998
I went in, and I had a
conversation with the one

00:26:46.998 --> 00:26:49.709
female employee there
named Rachel Pepper.

00:26:49.709 --> 00:26:51.711
RACHEL: I just liked
Franco right away.

00:26:51.711 --> 00:26:54.214
I felt I need to help
this person get hired.

00:26:54.214 --> 00:26:55.924
I wanna be this person's friend.

00:26:55.924 --> 00:26:59.010
FRANCO: Everyone that worked
there was an artist or a writer

00:26:59.010 --> 00:27:02.263
and the most creative
people that I'd ever met.

00:27:02.263 --> 00:27:04.390
One of my friends
from school, he asked me,

00:27:04.390 --> 00:27:05.850
"So, where you living?"

00:27:05.850 --> 00:27:09.145
And when I admitted that I
didn't have a place to live,

00:27:09.145 --> 00:27:12.565
they said, "Come live with us.
We won't charge you any rent."

00:27:12.565 --> 00:27:14.901
And they gave me
this tiny little bedroom.

00:27:14.901 --> 00:27:19.280
But I was so happy to have this
place that I could be myself in.

00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:21.157
One night, I went out
to a club, and I met

00:27:21.157 --> 00:27:23.368
my first official
girlfriend, Vicki.

00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:27.497
VICKI: When I met Franco,
I thought she looked a lot

00:27:27.497 --> 00:27:28.915
like Demi Moore.

00:27:28.915 --> 00:27:33.753
She had makeup and
nails and the hair.

00:27:33.753 --> 00:27:36.673
And I was just
like, wow, you know? Yeah.

00:27:36.673 --> 00:27:39.384
So, we started going to
Rolo and all these little stores

00:27:39.384 --> 00:27:40.927
and shopping together.

00:27:40.927 --> 00:27:44.389
And then gradually, I noticed
she was like kinda changing.

00:27:45.473 --> 00:27:49.310
I just noticed her
discovering who she was.

00:27:49.310 --> 00:27:52.939
She said to me, "If you wanna
stay with me,

00:27:52.939 --> 00:27:54.482
you have to wear the dress."

00:27:54.482 --> 00:27:56.526
FRANCO: I was like, "Can you
please put on a dress for me?"

00:27:56.526 --> 00:27:59.112
And she's like "No!"

00:27:59.112 --> 00:28:02.448
I was like, oh no, I think
I like femme girls.

00:28:02.448 --> 00:28:05.576
And then I got kind of upset
that they weren't treated

00:28:05.576 --> 00:28:08.162
like real lesbians in
the lesbian community.

00:28:08.162 --> 00:28:09.580
You had to look the part.

00:28:09.580 --> 00:28:12.500
You needed Doc Martins on
your feet, and you needed

00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:15.211
short haircut and no makeup.

00:28:15.211 --> 00:28:18.214
You had to be able to
identify each other by that.

00:28:18.214 --> 00:28:19.799
I think that's just wrong.

00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:23.177
-So, what is an average lesbian?
-There is no average lesbian.

00:28:23.177 --> 00:28:24.846
We've always been
in every segment.

00:28:24.846 --> 00:28:28.349
We're doctors, lawyers,
engineers,

00:28:28.349 --> 00:28:30.268
sanitation engineers too.

00:28:30.268 --> 00:28:32.895
If you look around, how many
of you could decipher

00:28:32.895 --> 00:28:34.605
who was lesbian and who was not?

00:28:34.605 --> 00:28:37.567
If you looked at this panel
walking out on the street,

00:28:37.567 --> 00:28:38.818
what would you think?
Average lesbian?

00:28:38.818 --> 00:28:40.194
-Of course. Of course.
[laughter]

00:28:40.194 --> 00:28:42.405
FRANCO: Average lesbian?
Average lesbian?

00:28:42.405 --> 00:28:44.324
Our whole life does not
revolve around sex

00:28:44.324 --> 00:28:48.119
and who we sleep with.
[applause]

00:28:49.954 --> 00:28:53.166
RACHEL: We wanted to see
representation of our diversity

00:28:53.166 --> 00:28:54.751
in the pages of a magazine.

00:28:54.751 --> 00:28:56.753
We wanted fashion.
We wanted lifestyle.

00:28:56.753 --> 00:29:00.423
We wanted to talk about books
and music that were not

00:29:00.423 --> 00:29:03.551
on the mainstream
lesbian grid at the moment.

00:29:03.551 --> 00:29:05.428
-There were gay magazines.

00:29:05.428 --> 00:29:07.138
There just
weren't the right ones.

00:29:07.138 --> 00:29:08.890
FRANCO: Okay, come on.
Let's take some selfies.

00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:10.641
ANDREA: Okay, we're
taking some selfies.

00:29:10.641 --> 00:29:11.684
-Am I a bar stool?

00:29:11.684 --> 00:29:13.353
Put your arm
around me or something.

00:29:13.353 --> 00:29:14.354
-Well, I mean,
it's a little tall.

00:29:14.354 --> 00:29:15.730
-Here, no, here.
-Okay, there.

00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:17.857
Yeah, I guess I'll lean then.
Bar stool. You get it?

00:29:17.857 --> 00:29:20.443
-[laughs] I turn into
everyone's coat rack.

00:29:20.443 --> 00:29:21.444
What am I, a coat rack?

00:29:21.444 --> 00:29:22.945
-I don't think
you're a coat rack!

00:29:22.945 --> 00:29:25.656
-So, right down here
is the bookstore

00:29:25.656 --> 00:29:27.200
that I used to work at.

00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.660
It used to be called
A Different Light.

00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:32.288
When I used to work here,
mostly at the time it was

00:29:32.288 --> 00:29:34.874
gay men's porn.

00:29:34.874 --> 00:29:37.251
"The Advocate" didn't say
"lesbian" on the front cover.

00:29:37.251 --> 00:29:41.339
It only said, "gay."
"Out" showed up shortly after.

00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.008
"On Our Backs" was there:
full nudity,

00:29:44.008 --> 00:29:46.219
in-your-face lesbian erotica.

00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:51.057
KATIE: There was nothing for
the general lesbian population.

00:29:51.474 --> 00:29:55.353
FRANCO: One day, it hit me:
if you want something you need

00:29:55.353 --> 00:29:57.980
to take action and do something.

00:29:57.980 --> 00:30:01.025
I was the one that was
supposed to start this magazine.

00:30:02.402 --> 00:30:03.611
-So, she got the idea.

00:30:03.611 --> 00:30:05.780
And then she's just
like, ooh, my god.

00:30:05.780 --> 00:30:07.365
I need money.

00:30:07.365 --> 00:30:10.410
FRANCO: So, I dressed up in my
little suit, and I went to the

00:30:10.410 --> 00:30:14.580
bank with my business plan and
my little pleather briefcase.

00:30:14.580 --> 00:30:16.999
I don't think they wanted
anything to do with me.

00:30:16.999 --> 00:30:18.835
We were shot down so hard.

00:30:18.835 --> 00:30:20.962
"What are you thinking?
You know you're gonna fail."

00:30:20.962 --> 00:30:23.673
First of all, the
economy's tanking.

00:30:23.673 --> 00:30:26.092
Second of all, the magazine
industry's in the toilet.

00:30:26.092 --> 00:30:28.845
Magazines are flailing left
and right, and you wanna put

00:30:28.845 --> 00:30:30.847
the word "lesbian"
on the front cover.

00:30:30.847 --> 00:30:32.056
Good luck to ya.

00:30:32.056 --> 00:30:34.183
JEN: I wasn't out in the '90s.

00:30:34.183 --> 00:30:37.270
Why was it a big deal to put
the word "lesbian" on the cover?

00:30:37.270 --> 00:30:39.230
-It was essentially coming out
every time you wanted

00:30:39.230 --> 00:30:42.442
to look at the magazine.
It was a big deal back then.

00:30:42.442 --> 00:30:45.111
You're reading this,
you're guilty by association.

00:30:45.111 --> 00:30:46.863
Well, that was
everybody's perception

00:30:46.863 --> 00:30:48.448
that nobody would buy it.

00:30:48.448 --> 00:30:51.576
So, I just applied for a bunch
of credit cards on the same day.

00:30:52.243 --> 00:30:53.953
I just cashed them all in.

00:30:53.953 --> 00:30:55.997
ANNOUNCER: Here they come....

00:30:55.997 --> 00:30:59.500
FRANCO: I had been homeless, I'd
lived in my car, I'd been broke.

00:30:59.500 --> 00:31:01.961
So what if I didn't have
any credit after this?

00:31:01.961 --> 00:31:05.214
So what if I
declared bankruptcy?

00:31:05.214 --> 00:31:07.800
Everyone said along the
way that I couldn't do it.

00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:11.262
Well, the more you told me no,
the more I wanted it to happen.

00:31:11.262 --> 00:31:14.474
I picked the first race,
clear favorite.

00:31:14.474 --> 00:31:18.644
I went down to the paddock,
and I noticed when the jockey is

00:31:18.644 --> 00:31:21.898
getting on the horse, he keeps
looking back, looking back.

00:31:21.898 --> 00:31:23.774
There's something
wrong with this horse.

00:31:23.774 --> 00:31:26.235
So, it was like oh, that
horse is out. All right.

00:31:26.235 --> 00:31:29.989
I'm gonna bet an exacta
with two longshots,

00:31:29.989 --> 00:31:31.616
and my horses came in
first and second.

00:31:31.616 --> 00:31:33.618
[hooves thundering
on the track]

00:31:33.618 --> 00:31:38.331
I took all the money, and I
did the same thing: just taking

00:31:38.331 --> 00:31:40.708
that money and parlaying
it into the next race.

00:31:40.708 --> 00:31:43.002
I knew I had to risk everything.

00:31:43.002 --> 00:31:44.712
And I just remember
thinking okay,

00:31:44.712 --> 00:31:48.549
if this is supposed
to happen, it will.

00:31:48.549 --> 00:31:51.677
And I'll tell ya, it was like I
was standing at the finish line

00:31:51.677 --> 00:31:55.932
in every race, as if somebody
had just told me these are

00:31:55.932 --> 00:31:58.559
gonna be the winners
of these races.

00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:02.313
At the end of the day, I
had enough money to start

00:32:02.313 --> 00:32:05.733
the magazine and print
three editions worth.

00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:11.239
So, I was at Different Light
at the time, and I hand wrote

00:32:11.239 --> 00:32:13.699
a sign that just said
"Looking for lesbian writers

00:32:13.699 --> 00:32:17.161
and photographers for
new lesbian magazine."

00:32:17.161 --> 00:32:20.873
And I put the sign up, and I
got 300 calls the first month.

00:32:20.873 --> 00:32:25.127
So, at that point, I knew that
there was a need and a want.

00:32:25.127 --> 00:32:27.213
RACHEL: There was a lot of
interest in getting this

00:32:27.213 --> 00:32:30.675
new lesbian
publication off the ground.

00:32:30.675 --> 00:32:33.636
KATIE: I called, and I said,
"I'm interested in the magazine

00:32:33.636 --> 00:32:34.971
that you were talking about."

00:32:34.971 --> 00:32:37.682
And she goes, "Well, do
you want to be an editor."

00:32:37.682 --> 00:32:40.560
And I thought well, that
was an easy interview!

00:32:40.560 --> 00:32:44.397
DEB: Franco got this huge
tray with just so much sushi.

00:32:44.397 --> 00:32:46.065
And she said, "If you can
eat more sushi than me,

00:32:46.065 --> 00:32:48.609
you'll get the job."
That was.... [laughs]

00:32:48.609 --> 00:32:50.570
And I remember
thinking oh, I can do that.

00:32:50.570 --> 00:32:51.988
FRANCO: Do you know what
the difference is between

00:32:51.988 --> 00:32:54.448
parsley and pussy?
DEB: What, Franco?

00:32:54.448 --> 00:32:55.491
FRANCO: I don't know.

00:32:55.491 --> 00:32:56.993
I don't eat parsley.
[clicks tongue]

00:32:56.993 --> 00:32:58.703
Back to you, Deb.

00:32:59.704 --> 00:33:01.664
KATIE: I think she was 23.

00:33:01.664 --> 00:33:04.917
So, to see somebody that was
grasping these opportunities

00:33:04.917 --> 00:33:07.420
and just going
for it was really inspiring.

00:33:09.046 --> 00:33:11.299
FRANCO: Oh, the
name of the magazine.

00:33:11.299 --> 00:33:13.593
[clears throat] I've been
told never to talk about that.

00:33:13.593 --> 00:33:16.596
The name Deneuve was
Franco's first cat.

00:33:16.596 --> 00:33:19.724
Franco had a girlfriend
whose cat was named Deneuve.

00:33:19.724 --> 00:33:23.686
Long-haired American
fluffy cat, tabby. Deneuve.

00:33:23.686 --> 00:33:25.396
What!? [laughs]

00:33:25.396 --> 00:33:29.150
She once told me that it sounded
like it meant, "the new thing."

00:33:29.150 --> 00:33:33.404
I think we all felt it had a
little bit of a je ne sais quoi.

00:33:33.404 --> 00:33:36.407
I knew immediately that it was

00:33:36.407 --> 00:33:39.535
homage to Catherine Deneuve.

00:33:39.535 --> 00:33:41.329
"The Hunger" was one
of my favorite movies.

00:33:41.329 --> 00:33:46.667
Franco named the magazine
after her camp counselor.

00:33:47.084 --> 00:33:49.837
KATIE: She told me, "There was a
girl that I met at summer camp

00:33:49.837 --> 00:33:51.589
that I fell madly in love with."

00:33:51.589 --> 00:33:55.635
Franco's first girlfriend,
her name was Deneuve.

00:33:55.635 --> 00:33:57.386
How sweet is that?

00:33:57.386 --> 00:34:00.514
For the record, my first
girlfriend was not a cat.

00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:04.852
[machines whirring]

00:34:06.145 --> 00:34:08.230
[chill pop music]

00:34:08.230 --> 00:34:10.483
From the get-go, I knew exactly

00:34:10.483 --> 00:34:12.902
what I wanted the
magazine to be like.

00:34:12.902 --> 00:34:15.112
I wanted it to be
color and glossy.

00:34:15.112 --> 00:34:20.451
I wanted it to be a resource
for women in the community,

00:34:20.451 --> 00:34:23.454
and I wanted it to be a place
where we could feel

00:34:23.454 --> 00:34:25.831
proud to represent all of us.

00:34:25.831 --> 00:34:28.042
This is our life.
This is our style.

00:34:28.042 --> 00:34:31.921
Yes, this is our news and our
politics, but this is where

00:34:31.921 --> 00:34:35.466
we are, and this is how we're
gonna push ourselves forward.

00:34:35.466 --> 00:34:38.260
DEB: What I was really
interested in was making sure

00:34:38.260 --> 00:34:40.513
everybody looked gorgeous.

00:34:40.513 --> 00:34:42.473
'Cause I think at that time,
a lot of people didn't really

00:34:42.473 --> 00:34:43.849
feel good about themselves.

00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:46.936
Put down by society.
Really rough time with families.

00:34:46.936 --> 00:34:49.772
It was really a place
where we looked positive,

00:34:49.772 --> 00:34:51.732
we looked great, we looked sexy.

00:34:55.152 --> 00:34:57.780
♪ Still, there's many who
turned out their porch lights

00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:00.533
♪ Just so I would think
they were not home

00:35:00.533 --> 00:35:03.077
♪ And hid in the
dark of the windows

00:35:03.077 --> 00:35:04.662
♪ Till I passed.... ♪

00:35:04.662 --> 00:35:09.166
It says on the very first issue,
"lesbian," a lesbian magazine.

00:35:09.166 --> 00:35:12.253
You know, just being
in this magazine

00:35:12.253 --> 00:35:13.796
was like taking a big chance.

00:35:13.796 --> 00:35:17.800
I mean, there's nothing more
out loud and proud than being

00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.219
in a magazine with
the L word on the cover.

00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:23.347
I can tell you there
was two paid ads;

00:35:23.347 --> 00:35:26.434
one from A Different Light
Bookstore, which was tiny,

00:35:26.434 --> 00:35:29.562
and then one from my
dad's computer business,

00:35:29.562 --> 00:35:32.273
which was his latest
entrepreneurial venture.

00:35:33.441 --> 00:35:35.985
[pensive music]

00:35:35.985 --> 00:35:39.530
My relationship with my mom
at the point of just starting

00:35:39.530 --> 00:35:42.158
the magazine was on the mend.

00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:45.661
ROBIN: My mother knew
she didn't react well.

00:35:45.661 --> 00:35:48.414
FRANCO: One time for
Thanksgiving, she called up

00:35:48.414 --> 00:35:51.792
and said, "I'd really like you
to come home for Thanksgiving."

00:35:51.792 --> 00:35:53.502
And without missing a beat,
I just said,

00:35:53.502 --> 00:35:55.296
"Okay, we will be there.

00:35:55.296 --> 00:35:58.382
I will be coming with my
girlfriend," which was Vicki.

00:35:58.382 --> 00:36:01.010
I didn't give her a
chance to say anything else.

00:36:02.845 --> 00:36:05.431
ROBIN: The first time I heard
my mother use the word,

00:36:05.431 --> 00:36:09.602
"my daughter's a lesbian,"
was in relation to the magazine.

00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.314
Somebody was asking
what everybody was up to.

00:36:13.314 --> 00:36:17.318
And my mother said, "Oh, and
Frank started this magazine."

00:36:17.318 --> 00:36:18.861
"Really?
What kind of magazine?"

00:36:18.861 --> 00:36:22.031
"Well, it's a lesbian magazine."
And that was just it.

00:36:22.948 --> 00:36:27.536
NANNY: Frances said,
"Mom, I know what I want,

00:36:27.536 --> 00:36:29.330
and I'm gonna do it."

00:36:29.330 --> 00:36:34.001
And I said, "Hurray.
Let's start over."

00:36:36.212 --> 00:36:39.673
[birds singing]

00:36:39.673 --> 00:36:43.427
FRANCO: I don't know if you
remember Kim Katrin Milan.

00:36:43.427 --> 00:36:45.179
Her TED Talk went viral.

00:36:45.179 --> 00:36:49.350
Yeah, she has an amazing family.
So, take a look at this.

00:36:49.350 --> 00:36:51.894
TIQ: I am a transgender man,
which means the "F"

00:36:51.894 --> 00:36:53.646
on my birth certificate
should've stood for

00:36:53.646 --> 00:36:57.358
false instead of female.
[laughter]

00:36:57.358 --> 00:36:59.527
KIM: I am a
cisgender queer woman.

00:36:59.527 --> 00:37:03.113
Cisgender means the gender
I was assigned at birth is still

00:37:03.113 --> 00:37:05.157
and has always been female.

00:37:05.157 --> 00:37:08.035
I've identified in a few
different ways—as a bisexual,

00:37:08.035 --> 00:37:11.288
as a lesbian—but for me,
queerness encompasses

00:37:11.288 --> 00:37:15.376
all of the layers of who
I am and how I've loved.

00:37:15.376 --> 00:37:17.586
I'm layers and not fractions.

00:37:17.586 --> 00:37:21.549
FRANCO: What are they saying
that's bringing so many viewers?

00:37:21.549 --> 00:37:25.177
What is the message of today?
What are people hungry for?

00:37:25.177 --> 00:37:30.432
When I created the magazine, it
was for women who love women.

00:37:30.432 --> 00:37:31.892
So, what does that mean today?

00:37:31.892 --> 00:37:34.562
JEN: Who identifies as a
woman might have shifted.

00:37:34.562 --> 00:37:36.063
FRANCO: Yeah. Mmhmm.

00:37:36.063 --> 00:37:37.106
-But it's the same thing.

00:37:37.106 --> 00:37:38.524
-And who identifies
as a man now.

00:37:38.524 --> 00:37:39.733
-Right.

00:37:39.733 --> 00:37:42.903
-So, I think it's looking
at the community

00:37:42.903 --> 00:37:44.697
a really different way.

00:37:46.615 --> 00:37:49.660
[chill music]

00:37:49.660 --> 00:37:54.582
KIM: I'd been speaking since
2009, trying to involve people

00:37:54.582 --> 00:37:58.168
in having a broader
dialogue about what it means

00:37:58.168 --> 00:38:00.629
to support LGBT people.

00:38:00.629 --> 00:38:02.756
-You know, having
a speaker like you come in

00:38:02.756 --> 00:38:05.175
could just change everything.
-Yeah.

00:38:05.175 --> 00:38:08.762
-They picture queer
people as one specific way.

00:38:08.762 --> 00:38:11.724
What I wanted to do with
the magazine too is kinda

00:38:11.724 --> 00:38:14.852
break that mold and say
that people don't have to

00:38:14.852 --> 00:38:18.105
be a certain way to be accepted
within the community.

00:38:18.105 --> 00:38:19.857
KIM: I think that that
conversation is still something

00:38:19.857 --> 00:38:21.650
that's so
important to keep having.

00:38:21.650 --> 00:38:24.361
I think everything ends up
having to evolve.

00:38:24.361 --> 00:38:28.282
-People will make fun of
the extension of LGBTQI2s,

00:38:28.282 --> 00:38:31.660
but the way that exists is
actually a really accurate

00:38:31.660 --> 00:38:33.579
reflection of the work
we're trying to do.

00:38:33.579 --> 00:38:35.164
-Totally, totally.
And what we're seeing now

00:38:35.164 --> 00:38:36.874
with this desire for people

00:38:36.874 --> 00:38:38.918
to name themselves,
is really that,

00:38:38.918 --> 00:38:42.129
is a reclaiming of this power
that we've never had access to.

00:38:42.129 --> 00:38:45.215
-It's self-empowering
to take those words back.

00:38:45.215 --> 00:38:48.427
-And I think in the
naming is you find your tribe.

00:38:48.427 --> 00:38:49.970
You find your community.

00:38:50.971 --> 00:38:52.556
[mellow music]

00:38:52.556 --> 00:38:57.144
FRANCO: I knew the owner of the
largest lesbian romance novel

00:38:57.144 --> 00:38:59.772
publishing company, Naiad Press.

00:38:59.772 --> 00:39:02.942
Barbara Grier, the publisher,
said to me, "Oh my god.

00:39:02.942 --> 00:39:04.902
You're the cutest little
baby dyke I've ever seen!"

00:39:04.902 --> 00:39:06.946
-[laughs]
-"Print this flyer.

00:39:06.946 --> 00:39:10.783
It will cost you $600,
and I will send it out to

00:39:10.783 --> 00:39:13.661
all my people on my
entire mailing list.

00:39:13.661 --> 00:39:17.247
And I'll even put a quote
from me in there saying that

00:39:17.247 --> 00:39:20.584
this is the greatest thing
to happen to lesbian culture.

00:39:20.584 --> 00:39:22.836
I support it.
You need to buy a subscription."

00:39:22.836 --> 00:39:26.882
So, I was like, $600?
We didn't have 600 cents.

00:39:28.509 --> 00:39:30.135
VICKI: We were putting
our heads together 'cause

00:39:30.135 --> 00:39:31.720
this was so important to us.

00:39:31.720 --> 00:39:36.183
So, there used to be motorcycle
parking down there at the corner

00:39:36.183 --> 00:39:39.561
of 18th and Castro Street, and
there'd be tons of people that'd

00:39:39.561 --> 00:39:42.022
come and would park
their motorcycles there.

00:39:42.022 --> 00:39:45.401
We can go down there and
start detailing motorcycles.

00:39:45.401 --> 00:39:47.611
VICKI: [laughing] I do not
want to wash motorcycles.

00:39:47.611 --> 00:39:49.446
And she was like "C'mon!"

00:39:49.446 --> 00:39:51.573
I would be like,
"Hey, nice bike.

00:39:51.573 --> 00:39:55.452
But really, your
bike is pretty dirty.

00:39:55.452 --> 00:39:57.621
Look at mine!
It's immaculate.

00:39:57.621 --> 00:40:00.541
You go into that bar,
give me 20 bucks.

00:40:00.541 --> 00:40:03.043
By the time you get out, your
bike will look as good as mine."

00:40:03.043 --> 00:40:05.129
We had like little toothbrushes.

00:40:05.129 --> 00:40:07.756
By the end of the day,
we were so exhausted.

00:40:07.756 --> 00:40:09.800
FRANCO: I was surprised
she didn't break up with me

00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:11.260
just right then and there.

00:40:11.260 --> 00:40:15.055
After a weekend, we were
high on those fumes from

00:40:15.055 --> 00:40:17.307
the de-greaser, but
we had gotten the money.

00:40:19.059 --> 00:40:21.437
So, Naiad Press
sent out the mailer.

00:40:21.437 --> 00:40:26.608
And after about two weeks,
I opened up the mailbox,

00:40:26.608 --> 00:40:29.028
and there were like
two subscriptions.

00:40:29.028 --> 00:40:32.573
I was like two
subscriptions, YES!

00:40:32.573 --> 00:40:36.076
The next day there was
like 12 subscriptions.

00:40:36.076 --> 00:40:39.371
I was like wow, this is awesome.

00:40:40.748 --> 00:40:43.250
And I come in the next day.

00:40:43.250 --> 00:40:45.878
I open that little box,
and I look in. Empty.

00:40:47.421 --> 00:40:51.091
And I'm like, I guess that's it
'cause this is the third issue.

00:40:51.091 --> 00:40:55.763
So, as I'm walking out the door
with my head kind of slung like

00:40:55.763 --> 00:40:58.724
let's see, how old will I be
after my bankruptcy's cleared

00:40:58.724 --> 00:41:01.435
from my record, the guy
behind the desk said, "Oh, wait.

00:41:01.435 --> 00:41:05.355
Frank, Franco, wait a second!"
And I said, "Yeah?"

00:41:05.355 --> 00:41:07.941
He goes, "Oh, your
mail would not fit in

00:41:07.941 --> 00:41:11.361
the P.O. box.
There was too much of it."

00:41:11.361 --> 00:41:16.200
So, he plunked down this
sack of subscriptions.

00:41:17.367 --> 00:41:22.122
It was like Santa's gift bag.
I couldn't believe it.

00:41:22.122 --> 00:41:25.376
For the next few weeks,
it continued at that rate.

00:41:25.376 --> 00:41:30.130
Like either there was a tub, one
of those mail tubs, or a sack of

00:41:30.130 --> 00:41:32.508
thousands of subscriptions.

00:41:32.508 --> 00:41:36.178
It was like...
God was a lesbian. [laughs]

00:41:37.179 --> 00:41:40.641
[upbeat music]

00:41:41.642 --> 00:41:44.603
VICKI: So many women were
interested in the magazine.

00:41:44.603 --> 00:41:46.563
And I mean, it was
just flooding in.

00:41:46.563 --> 00:41:50.692
We were in the apartment,
typing in the addresses,

00:41:50.692 --> 00:41:55.781
stuffing these magazines
into manila envelopes.

00:41:55.781 --> 00:41:57.908
And I'm like, I'm
thinking to myself,

00:41:57.908 --> 00:41:59.493
what day and age
are we living in?

00:41:59.493 --> 00:42:02.746
Why does this have to be in a
manila envelope and mailed out?

00:42:02.746 --> 00:42:05.457
And it's like well, it's going
to the Midwest to people

00:42:05.457 --> 00:42:07.042
that probably aren't out.

00:42:07.042 --> 00:42:10.963
So, this is where I lived when
I first started the magazine.

00:42:10.963 --> 00:42:14.800
But when women called here, they
thought they were reaching some

00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.678
big-ass publication, where it
was a couple of dykes sitting up

00:42:17.678 --> 00:42:20.264
in that room all smooshed
together and like—

00:42:20.264 --> 00:42:21.306
ANDREA: You were
all the departments.

00:42:21.306 --> 00:42:22.516
FRANCO: I was all
the departments.

00:42:22.516 --> 00:42:24.059
We did so many photo
shoots in the back.

00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:25.602
Sometimes they'd call
and be like, "Oh, yeah,

00:42:25.602 --> 00:42:28.105
I have a question
about my subscription."

00:42:28.105 --> 00:42:30.691
They were really
looking for community.

00:42:30.691 --> 00:42:33.652
Calling us up and hearing
another voice of somebody

00:42:33.652 --> 00:42:38.115
who is actually an out lesbian
was so moving for them.

00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:42.786
Sometimes they'd end up
keeping somebody on the phone

00:42:42.786 --> 00:42:44.621
here at the office
for an hour or two.

00:42:44.621 --> 00:42:46.623
It wasn't uncommon.

00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:53.964
Brings back a lot of memories.

00:42:54.965 --> 00:42:57.509
[mellow music]

00:42:57.509 --> 00:43:00.429
RACHEL: How are you going to
publicize this magazine

00:43:00.429 --> 00:43:05.601
at a time when women really
didn't have access to a lot of

00:43:05.601 --> 00:43:07.352
media to get their voices heard?

00:43:07.352 --> 00:43:09.771
And there was no
Internet to publicize it.

00:43:09.771 --> 00:43:12.691
Franco was great
about hitting the road

00:43:12.691 --> 00:43:14.443
at every opportunity possible.

00:43:14.443 --> 00:43:18.906
She would go to every Pride
event all around the country

00:43:18.906 --> 00:43:22.326
to set up a booth
and sell subscriptions.

00:43:22.826 --> 00:43:25.245
It's the night before the tour,
and I'm just getting ready.

00:43:25.245 --> 00:43:27.206
And our first stop is
Winnemucca, Nevada,

00:43:27.206 --> 00:43:29.791
until we can make it
to Salt Lake City the next day.

00:43:29.791 --> 00:43:31.793
We're doing Chicago on Friday,

00:43:31.793 --> 00:43:34.004
the Michigan Womyn's Music
Festival on Sunday.

00:43:34.004 --> 00:43:39.718
Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland,
Columbus, Indiannapolis,

00:43:39.718 --> 00:43:44.139
St. Louis, Kansas City,
Denver, and then back home.

00:43:44.139 --> 00:43:46.725
I just don't know where
we're gonna fit 47 boxes

00:43:46.725 --> 00:43:49.144
that we're gonna get
in Chicago in the car.

00:43:49.144 --> 00:43:50.979
Magazines, magazines.

00:43:50.979 --> 00:43:52.272
We're going to Michigan.

00:43:52.272 --> 00:43:55.943
We're gonna see us
some naked ladies. Buh-bye!

00:43:55.943 --> 00:43:58.779
FRANCO: And that was our whole
idea of going on these tours,

00:43:58.779 --> 00:44:01.114
is like drive 600 miles.

00:44:01.114 --> 00:44:02.491
DEB: Have you had okra?

00:44:02.491 --> 00:44:04.284
I didn't know what
okra was until tonight.

00:44:04.284 --> 00:44:07.287
FRANCO: Show up at the bookstore
for cocktails and snacks.

00:44:07.287 --> 00:44:10.415
They have "Deneuve"
magazine beautifully displayed.

00:44:10.415 --> 00:44:13.877
FRANCO: Followed by five
minutes for dinner and going

00:44:13.877 --> 00:44:17.047
to a dance club until 3:00
or 4:00 in the morning.

00:44:18.298 --> 00:44:21.093
We're on our way to Atlanta.

00:44:21.093 --> 00:44:24.012
Every place we go, they ask
who the three triplets are,

00:44:24.012 --> 00:44:26.765
since we're obviously the only
lesbians they've ever seen.

00:44:26.765 --> 00:44:28.141
Or so they think.

00:44:28.141 --> 00:44:30.143
And we all have
exactly the same haircut.

00:44:31.728 --> 00:44:34.940
And we'd just cover as
much ground as we could.

00:44:36.358 --> 00:44:38.819
RACHEL: When we rolled up,
people would just be ecstatic

00:44:38.819 --> 00:44:43.740
to see us, and
particularly to see Franco.

00:44:43.740 --> 00:44:45.742
Actually, one beautiful woman
standing right in front of me.

00:44:45.742 --> 00:44:47.411
[laughs]

00:44:47.411 --> 00:44:49.705
Can I turn this off
now, Franco, please?

00:44:49.705 --> 00:44:51.456
-I love my job.
[kiss, laughter]

00:44:51.456 --> 00:44:53.083
I love my job.
I love my job.

00:44:53.083 --> 00:44:55.919
More babes in
the community tent.

00:44:55.919 --> 00:45:00.007
-The big boss is
just working so hard! [chuckles]

00:45:00.007 --> 00:45:04.011
Oh yeah, just peeling
the babes off her carcass.

00:45:04.011 --> 00:45:07.764
The women of the South
really have loved the magazine.

00:45:07.764 --> 00:45:09.808
-And we just wanna
say, "Hey, 'Deneuve'."

00:45:09.808 --> 00:45:12.144
-Wanna say hi to all
you "Deneuve" fans.

00:45:12.144 --> 00:45:14.104
[cheering]

00:45:16.189 --> 00:45:17.691
Woo woo!

00:45:17.691 --> 00:45:21.194
[bright music]

00:45:28.535 --> 00:45:32.539
-I started reading the magazine
when I first started coming out.

00:45:32.539 --> 00:45:35.584
It kinda helped me remember
that I wasn't all alone.

00:45:44.968 --> 00:45:48.638
DEB: A woman came up
to us, and she was crying.

00:45:48.638 --> 00:45:50.807
And I said, "Are you upset?"
She goes, "No, I'm really happy.

00:45:50.807 --> 00:45:52.059
I live out here.

00:45:52.059 --> 00:45:54.561
There are no other gay
people that I know of,

00:45:54.561 --> 00:45:56.021
and I get this magazine.

00:45:56.021 --> 00:45:58.190
It comes every month, and
it's like my only connection

00:45:58.190 --> 00:45:59.691
to the gay community."

00:46:00.692 --> 00:46:04.404
And I realized at that moment
that this has a little more

00:46:04.404 --> 00:46:06.698
importance than
I actually realize.

00:46:06.698 --> 00:46:13.538
-We probably get an
average of 100 letters a week.

00:46:13.538 --> 00:46:15.874
KATIE: Let me just share
with you this one letter.

00:46:15.874 --> 00:46:19.169
The header on it is, "Saved
from the Patriarchal South.

00:46:19.169 --> 00:46:21.004
May the Goddesses bless you!

00:46:21.004 --> 00:46:24.466
Your magazine 'Deneuve,' has
saved me from the patriarchy.

00:46:24.466 --> 00:46:27.427
I now feel connected
to the Lesbian World.

00:46:27.427 --> 00:46:31.264
Back here in Kentucky where
the KKK still march, positive

00:46:31.264 --> 00:46:34.559
publications such as yours can
only bring us more support."

00:46:44.361 --> 00:46:48.198
[upbeat music]

00:46:51.284 --> 00:46:53.537
-Welcome to the 6th annual
Lesbians Who Tech

00:46:53.537 --> 00:46:55.789
and Allies Summit!
[boisterous cheers, applause]

00:46:58.458 --> 00:47:00.460
I started Lesbians Who Tech
because I felt like

00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:01.962
my voice was missing.

00:47:01.962 --> 00:47:04.464
I just had never seen
professional queer women

00:47:04.464 --> 00:47:08.927
in one place like that, that
immense kind of realness.

00:47:08.927 --> 00:47:12.139
We live in a systemic, racist,
sexist, anti-LGBTQ world.

00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:14.516
That's just the way it is.
And we have to fight it.

00:47:14.516 --> 00:47:16.143
We have to fight it every day.

00:47:16.143 --> 00:47:18.228
-So, you have all of
these conversations

00:47:18.228 --> 00:47:19.938
that are happening,
but they don't necessarily

00:47:19.938 --> 00:47:21.314
always include us, right?

00:47:21.314 --> 00:47:23.775
They don't include
the LGBTQ community.

00:47:23.775 --> 00:47:25.402
They don't include
the Black community.

00:47:25.402 --> 00:47:28.196
They don't include quote-unquote
"marginalized" communities.

00:47:28.196 --> 00:47:31.575
And so, by creating a space
and place for people,

00:47:31.575 --> 00:47:33.785
you're creating community.

00:47:33.785 --> 00:47:37.372
LEANNE: I became an adult around
the age of queer versus lesbian.

00:47:37.372 --> 00:47:40.041
Anyone over a certain age
is team lesbian, and anyone

00:47:40.041 --> 00:47:41.710
under a certain
age is team queer.

00:47:41.710 --> 00:47:43.253
And I was like, why?

00:47:43.253 --> 00:47:45.755
And obviously, older women,
the word "queer" was derogatory.

00:47:45.755 --> 00:47:47.424
I just think a lot of
young people kind of

00:47:47.424 --> 00:47:49.718
felt like "lesbian" is
this like, softball coach

00:47:49.718 --> 00:47:51.136
in the Midwest, you know?

00:47:51.136 --> 00:47:52.846
I thought long and hard
about the name

00:47:52.846 --> 00:47:54.222
when I was starting this.

00:47:54.222 --> 00:47:56.725
I mean "lesbian" is not
the greatest-sounding word.

00:47:56.725 --> 00:47:57.726
"Gay" is much better.

00:47:57.726 --> 00:48:00.020
It's one syllable. It's shorter.

00:48:00.020 --> 00:48:01.897
But it's our word,
and I was like, fuck it.

00:48:01.897 --> 00:48:05.233
We need to claim this, and we
need to make it not this stuffy,

00:48:05.233 --> 00:48:07.652
Birkenstock, old
white lady thing.

00:48:08.528 --> 00:48:10.614
I don't think Lesbians Who Tech
would be able to exist

00:48:10.614 --> 00:48:12.199
without things like "Curve."

00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:15.911
I mean, we're built upon the
foundation of that early work.

00:48:15.911 --> 00:48:18.663
I mean, this conference
is lesbian visibility.

00:48:19.664 --> 00:48:23.168
KATE: What's happening here
right now is Franco's legacy!

00:48:26.963 --> 00:48:30.383
[many conversations]

00:48:35.096 --> 00:48:37.098
[motorycles rev,
dance music starts]

00:48:42.229 --> 00:48:45.732
[music with a heavy beat]

00:48:46.358 --> 00:48:49.945
-The early '90s in San
Francisco was the heyday.

00:48:49.945 --> 00:48:53.865
San Francisco was so
on fire and so alive.

00:48:53.865 --> 00:48:56.701
We owned Valencia Street
in the Mission.

00:48:56.701 --> 00:49:02.791
You'd just walk from
Artemis Cafe to Amelia's Bar

00:49:02.791 --> 00:49:06.878
to Osento Bathhouse because
we'd never been able to do that.

00:49:06.878 --> 00:49:09.130
So, we went to this extreme
of like, we're gonna

00:49:09.130 --> 00:49:10.840
make our own culture.

00:49:11.841 --> 00:49:13.593
-I grew up in Ohio.

00:49:13.593 --> 00:49:16.263
If I were to have been out,
I would've

00:49:16.263 --> 00:49:18.306
immediately
been gay bashed.

00:49:18.306 --> 00:49:23.228
I escaped [laughs] on
the Greyhound out here,

00:49:23.228 --> 00:49:25.564
and I found my tribe.

00:49:26.606 --> 00:49:31.194
-Growing up in a small town,
I had to silence myself a lot.

00:49:31.194 --> 00:49:34.030
So, when I arrived
in San Francisco,

00:49:34.030 --> 00:49:36.157
I was not silent at all.

00:49:36.157 --> 00:49:38.785
I took up as much
space as I possibly could.

00:49:38.785 --> 00:49:41.371
To be in a place where
you're just literally running

00:49:41.371 --> 00:49:43.832
down the street with
your shirt off, which I did

00:49:43.832 --> 00:49:45.500
in many circumstances.

00:49:45.500 --> 00:49:47.544
[cheering]

00:49:49.421 --> 00:49:51.881
FRANCO: It was really
an exciting, amazing,

00:49:51.881 --> 00:49:54.426
sexually-freeing time.

00:49:54.426 --> 00:49:58.638
RACHEL: Queer sexuality was
really coming into its own, and

00:49:58.638 --> 00:50:01.099
the founding of this magazine
was really part of that.

00:50:11.192 --> 00:50:13.570
[gentle music]

00:50:13.570 --> 00:50:17.198
FRANCO: My plan for the magazine
was to show the inclusiveness

00:50:17.198 --> 00:50:18.825
of the lesbian community.

00:50:18.825 --> 00:50:23.079
We put African-American women
on the cover, we put older women

00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:27.250
on the cover, we put
all shapes and sizes.

00:50:27.250 --> 00:50:29.961
ANITA: Upcoming
lesbians could identify with

00:50:29.961 --> 00:50:32.130
someone in those pages.

00:50:33.214 --> 00:50:37.677
JEWELLE: For the magazine
to have photographs of

00:50:37.677 --> 00:50:40.138
all different
kinds of lesbians,

00:50:40.138 --> 00:50:41.681
that was a huge deal.

00:50:41.681 --> 00:50:45.185
It wasn't a glamour magazine.
It was a community magazine.

00:50:45.185 --> 00:50:48.897
And everybody in the community
saw themselves in "Curve."

00:50:48.897 --> 00:50:53.610
PAGE: The media pours
this avalanche of identity,

00:50:53.610 --> 00:50:57.906
and well, it's missing 75%
of the people in the world.

00:50:57.906 --> 00:51:01.785
Frank's magazine brought
all the women forward and said,

00:51:01.785 --> 00:51:03.745
look how beautiful we are.

00:51:03.745 --> 00:51:08.333
-This magazine was about
arts and theater and sports

00:51:08.333 --> 00:51:11.086
and culture and politics.

00:51:11.086 --> 00:51:12.837
Talking about marriage equality.

00:51:12.837 --> 00:51:15.256
No one was talking
about that in the '90s.

00:51:15.256 --> 00:51:18.426
Today, there are 700
LGBTQ elected officials

00:51:18.426 --> 00:51:19.511
in the United States.

00:51:19.511 --> 00:51:22.347
Back then?
Maybe 20-25 and growing.

00:51:22.347 --> 00:51:24.849
But she would highlight them
every single month in there,

00:51:24.849 --> 00:51:27.227
to ensure that people were
talking about how important

00:51:27.227 --> 00:51:30.480
it is to have LGBTQ
representation.

00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.192
-Knowing about other people's
experiences, their stories,

00:51:34.192 --> 00:51:36.903
helping you to overcome
your own insecurities

00:51:36.903 --> 00:51:39.864
about your sexuality,
coming out.

00:51:39.864 --> 00:51:41.449
There was a lotta
coming out stories.

00:51:41.449 --> 00:51:45.203
And then stories about marriage
and about the legal struggles

00:51:45.203 --> 00:51:47.956
of gay women trying to adopt.

00:51:47.956 --> 00:51:51.209
RACHEL: When I was trying to
get pregnant, I wrote a piece

00:51:51.209 --> 00:51:53.378
on that journey
for the magazine.

00:51:53.378 --> 00:51:56.923
That was a really
groundbreaking topic to cover.

00:51:56.923 --> 00:52:00.969
-It showcased feminine
lesbians for the first time.

00:52:00.969 --> 00:52:03.096
I mean, that was huge for me.

00:52:03.096 --> 00:52:06.182
It's like if you wanna be really
butch, that is completely cool.

00:52:06.182 --> 00:52:07.809
But if you don't, if you wanna
be femme, if you wanna

00:52:07.809 --> 00:52:10.186
wear lipstick, if you wanna
wear dresses, if you wanna

00:52:10.186 --> 00:52:12.313
cut your hair short or not,
that's your business.

00:52:12.313 --> 00:52:13.523
And it's all okay.

00:52:14.524 --> 00:52:18.528
LEA: When the magazine put me
on the cover, it allowed women

00:52:18.528 --> 00:52:22.824
in our own community to see a
well-spoken, funny, intelligent,

00:52:22.824 --> 00:52:26.536
charming, gentlemanly butch,
which is basically who I am

00:52:26.536 --> 00:52:28.204
unless you cross
my fuckin' path.

00:52:29.581 --> 00:52:31.916
JUDEA: They had a article,
"Lipstick and Dipstick,"

00:52:31.916 --> 00:52:34.043
which I thought was so brilliant
that they would have

00:52:34.043 --> 00:52:38.757
the feminine and the masculine
side of lesbianism together.

00:52:38.757 --> 00:52:41.968
ANITA: The first time I saw the
magazine, I remember there was

00:52:41.968 --> 00:52:45.513
this brown woman on the
cover, Linda Villarosa.

00:52:45.513 --> 00:52:50.518
Just the power of seeing me.
[sniffs back tears]

00:52:56.900 --> 00:53:00.487
KATE: There's so much
about the word "lesbian" that is

00:53:00.487 --> 00:53:03.531
freighted with shame and stigma.

00:53:03.531 --> 00:53:07.535
That word has been sullied,
it has been cheapened,

00:53:07.535 --> 00:53:09.537
it's been mocked.

00:53:09.537 --> 00:53:14.250
The dominant culture has tried
to strip it of honor and dignity

00:53:14.250 --> 00:53:18.797
and pride and nuance and beauty
and sacredness and all of that.

00:53:19.589 --> 00:53:23.843
The magazine said, here
we are, and it's "lesbian!"

00:53:25.220 --> 00:53:27.430
And all of the sudden, you
felt like maybe you were rebuilt

00:53:27.430 --> 00:53:29.182
a little bit inside.

00:53:32.435 --> 00:53:35.271
-After I saw the first issue,
I knew right then that being

00:53:35.271 --> 00:53:38.274
the editor of a magazine like
"Deneuve" was gonna be

00:53:38.274 --> 00:53:40.902
what I wanted
to do with my life.

00:53:40.902 --> 00:53:44.072
I'd been married 16 years
as a lesbian.

00:53:44.072 --> 00:53:45.281
And she'd always been butch.

00:53:45.281 --> 00:53:48.117
And by the time she
came to me and said,

00:53:48.117 --> 00:53:52.747
"I think I'm trans," I was like,
"Yeah, you know. I know."

00:53:52.747 --> 00:53:56.251
We went to Franco
first and just said,

00:53:56.251 --> 00:53:57.836
"Jake is coming out as trans.

00:53:57.836 --> 00:53:59.754
Do you want us
to keep this secret?

00:53:59.754 --> 00:54:04.175
Or will I lose my job,
or what's gonna happen?"

00:54:04.175 --> 00:54:07.804
Franco said, "No,
absolutely not.

00:54:07.804 --> 00:54:11.099
You are the best person to
be running this magazine.

00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:14.978
We love Jake and accept him,
and he's part of the family."

00:54:14.978 --> 00:54:17.605
And it meant everything.

00:54:18.648 --> 00:54:21.150
The magazine was
never just a job.

00:54:21.150 --> 00:54:23.611
It was a lifestyle.

00:54:23.611 --> 00:54:26.364
To know that I wasn't gonna
lose that because my partner

00:54:26.364 --> 00:54:32.495
had found himself after 16
years, I was happy for him

00:54:32.495 --> 00:54:35.164
and then thrilled
for me. [chuckles]

00:54:35.164 --> 00:54:38.543
You can actually see the
imprint of the impact we had

00:54:38.543 --> 00:54:40.211
by welcoming trans men.

00:54:40.211 --> 00:54:44.299
And the same thing for
bringing in transgender women

00:54:44.299 --> 00:54:46.092
who identify as lesbian.

00:54:46.092 --> 00:54:49.596
We covered some trans
lesbians very early compared

00:54:49.596 --> 00:54:51.848
to some other publications.

00:54:51.848 --> 00:54:53.641
We didn't do as
great of a job of covering

00:54:53.641 --> 00:54:55.184
black and brown women.

00:54:55.184 --> 00:54:59.647
Our failing was that we didn't
push more to make it happen.

00:54:59.647 --> 00:55:02.984
The goal was always to be
as intersectional as possible,

00:55:02.984 --> 00:55:06.529
and we were able to accomplish
that as the years went on.

00:55:06.529 --> 00:55:10.366
We're able to see how
much more we need to do now.

00:55:18.791 --> 00:55:20.960
DENICE: So, Amber Hikes,
I'm really excited that you're

00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:24.464
gonna be able to meet
her because she, for the past

00:55:24.464 --> 00:55:27.842
two years, has led the Mayor's
office of LGBT affairs and has

00:55:27.842 --> 00:55:31.512
done some really incredible work
addressing racism

00:55:31.512 --> 00:55:33.932
within the LGBTQ community.

00:55:36.809 --> 00:55:38.811
FRANCO: Hey!
AMBER: Hey!

00:55:38.811 --> 00:55:39.854
It's good to see you. [laughs]

00:55:39.854 --> 00:55:41.022
DENICE: It's good
to see you too!

00:55:41.022 --> 00:55:42.065
FRANCO: I'm so
excited to meet you.

00:55:42.065 --> 00:55:43.191
AMBER: Same here.

00:55:43.191 --> 00:55:45.443
I'm really excited
to meet you as well.

00:55:45.443 --> 00:55:48.529
There were not a lot of ways
that you could see yourself.

00:55:48.529 --> 00:55:51.032
Way before "The L Word"
there was "Curve," and I could

00:55:51.032 --> 00:55:53.034
see myself represented there.

00:55:53.034 --> 00:55:55.119
DENICE: There's something to be
said around that moment that

00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:59.457
a young person watches a video
where they feel affirmed

00:55:59.457 --> 00:56:02.710
in their sexuality or their
gender presentation or identity.

00:56:02.710 --> 00:56:06.339
And walking into a bookstore
and looking at "Curve,"

00:56:06.339 --> 00:56:07.966
right, on a table.

00:56:07.966 --> 00:56:11.511
I see that same moment, that
coming of age moment where

00:56:11.511 --> 00:56:13.638
something in you unlocks
and says, "It's okay."

00:56:13.638 --> 00:56:14.973
AMBER: It's okay.

00:56:14.973 --> 00:56:16.557
And there's other
people that are like me. Yeah.

00:56:16.557 --> 00:56:18.393
DENICE: You know, one of
the things about social media,

00:56:18.393 --> 00:56:21.980
like folks who've been most
marginalized really having,

00:56:21.980 --> 00:56:25.900
taking the microphone, being
able to create their own content

00:56:25.900 --> 00:56:28.820
and tell their own stories
in their own words and then

00:56:28.820 --> 00:56:30.363
be connected to a wide audience.

00:56:30.363 --> 00:56:32.615
We want representation,
but we also want ownership.

00:56:32.615 --> 00:56:35.159
We also want to be able
to make decisions, right?

00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.036
-'Cause folks were saying
over and over again, they just

00:56:37.036 --> 00:56:38.830
didn't feel like they had
that seat at the table.

00:56:38.830 --> 00:56:40.415
They didn't feel
like they had a voice.

00:56:40.415 --> 00:56:42.542
They weren't reflected in the
leadership of our organizations,

00:56:42.542 --> 00:56:44.252
our LGBT organizations.

00:56:44.252 --> 00:56:45.753
Policy wasn't
really impacting them.

00:56:45.753 --> 00:56:48.923
So, the symbolic change was
to add these black and brown

00:56:48.923 --> 00:56:50.508
stripes to the flag.

00:56:50.508 --> 00:56:53.219
So, we raised the flag literally
right here at these flag poles

00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:55.638
on a Thursday,
and by Friday morning,

00:56:55.638 --> 00:56:57.265
it had gone completely viral.

00:56:57.265 --> 00:57:00.727
CNN had picked it up,
"HuffPost" picked it up,

00:57:00.727 --> 00:57:04.022
Breitbart picked it up. [laughs]
It was a scary time.

00:57:04.022 --> 00:57:06.816
I joke about it now, but the
hate mail was out of control.

00:57:06.816 --> 00:57:08.568
The death threats
were out of control.

00:57:08.568 --> 00:57:10.778
The mayor got death
threats on my behalf!

00:57:10.778 --> 00:57:12.905
Even people were so angry,
it's like at least you're

00:57:12.905 --> 00:57:14.490
finally talking about it.
-Right.

00:57:14.490 --> 00:57:17.410
-Because I feel like white folks
in the LGBT community have,

00:57:17.410 --> 00:57:19.120
I mean, that's
how privilege works.

00:57:19.120 --> 00:57:20.621
You were able to ignore
it for so long, right?

00:57:20.621 --> 00:57:22.165
-Right. Exactly.
-And so, now, it's like fine.

00:57:22.165 --> 00:57:24.042
Yell at me and tell me
racism doesn't exist.

00:57:24.042 --> 00:57:26.461
But at least you're
talking about it. [laughs]

00:57:26.461 --> 00:57:29.088
-I think something that
Amber and I often have to

00:57:29.088 --> 00:57:32.216
remind folks of, and just
in conversation within

00:57:32.216 --> 00:57:34.427
the LGBTQ community
or certain parts of it,

00:57:34.427 --> 00:57:36.429
is that LGBTQ rights
is immigrant rights.

00:57:36.429 --> 00:57:38.931
-That's right. That's right.
-Is black and brown rights.

00:57:38.931 --> 00:57:41.017
-It's disability rights.
-Is disability rights.

00:57:41.017 --> 00:57:44.270
And that these issues are
connected, and systems

00:57:44.270 --> 00:57:46.397
of oppression are layered
and connected as well.

00:57:46.397 --> 00:57:49.233
And so, we can't have
these siloed conversations.

00:57:49.233 --> 00:57:52.111
-I know for me and the work
that I do, I am reminded very

00:57:52.111 --> 00:57:56.991
literally every day about my
predecessors and the giants that

00:57:56.991 --> 00:57:59.535
really paved the way for any of
the work that we're able to do.

00:57:59.535 --> 00:58:01.704
-I would not be here if
it wasn't for the work of

00:58:01.704 --> 00:58:04.248
Gloria Anzaldua,
Cherrie Moraga in particular,

00:58:04.248 --> 00:58:06.793
Tatiana De La Tierra
who really were the first—

00:58:06.793 --> 00:58:10.463
-All women we've covered
in the magazine too.

00:58:10.463 --> 00:58:12.298
-And this is why "Curve"...
-It's amazing!

00:58:12.298 --> 00:58:13.633
-You know? It's amazing!

00:58:13.633 --> 00:58:15.218
-Hey, Franco, this
was such an honor.

00:58:15.218 --> 00:58:16.594
-Thank you so much.
-God, this was amazing.

00:58:16.594 --> 00:58:17.845
And thank you.

00:58:17.845 --> 00:58:21.182
Thank you from younger me,
from like age 16.

00:58:21.182 --> 00:58:25.728
-From little baby gay, pre-gay!
Almost bi, not really though.

00:58:25.728 --> 00:58:26.938
-[laughs] Oh, you
doing all of it.

00:58:26.938 --> 00:58:29.107
-We doing all of it! [laughter]

00:58:30.108 --> 00:58:32.360
[upbeat music]

00:58:32.360 --> 00:58:34.737
FRANCO: If you don't have a good
cover, you're not gonna attract

00:58:34.737 --> 00:58:36.572
somebody to buy it
on the newsstand.

00:58:36.572 --> 00:58:40.618
To start off with, we put women
in the community, either that we

00:58:40.618 --> 00:58:43.412
thought were hot and sexy,
or somebody on staff was

00:58:43.412 --> 00:58:46.332
possibly sleeping with,
I don't know.

00:58:46.332 --> 00:58:49.877
But we'd always hoped
to have a celebrity.

00:58:50.253 --> 00:58:54.715
The only out lesbian that
I could think of at the time

00:58:54.715 --> 00:58:56.384
was Martina Navratilova.

00:58:57.385 --> 00:59:00.805
And I'm pretty sure I thought
Lily Tomlin was a lesbian,

00:59:00.805 --> 00:59:02.431
although she was not out.

00:59:02.431 --> 00:59:03.850
-Johnny, it's a pleasure.

00:59:03.850 --> 00:59:07.812
-So, I tried writing to
Martina Navratilova's people,

00:59:07.812 --> 00:59:09.438
didn't get a response.

00:59:09.438 --> 00:59:13.568
I tried writing to
Lily Tomlin's person.

00:59:13.568 --> 00:59:16.279
One day, an intern said to me,
"Oh, somebody called

00:59:16.279 --> 00:59:17.780
while you were in the bathroom.

00:59:17.780 --> 00:59:20.575
She said her name was Lily
Tomlin or something like that."

00:59:20.575 --> 00:59:23.703
And I'm like, "Wait. Lily Tomlin

00:59:23.703 --> 00:59:25.997
called this office,
and I was in the bathroom?"

00:59:25.997 --> 00:59:28.541
And I said, "Tell me
what she said."

00:59:28.541 --> 00:59:33.713
"She said she would
love to be on the cover,

00:59:33.713 --> 00:59:37.216
but she just doesn't think
the timing is right.

00:59:37.216 --> 00:59:39.468
She can't, and she's
sure you will understand."

00:59:39.927 --> 00:59:44.765
RACHEL: It was very frustrating
to have these singers and actors

00:59:44.765 --> 00:59:48.227
that we knew, as a community,
were lesbian-identified

00:59:48.227 --> 00:59:51.814
and were adored
by so many lesbians,

00:59:51.814 --> 00:59:54.442
and we couldn't get
them on the cover!

00:59:54.442 --> 00:59:58.196
FRANCO: Our first big
celebrity was Melissa Etheridge.

00:59:59.197 --> 01:00:02.783
I was so blown away
that she said yes.

01:00:02.783 --> 01:00:05.995
It was justifying
that hey, we've arrived.

01:00:05.995 --> 01:00:08.247
We actually landed
our first celebrity,

01:00:08.247 --> 01:00:10.082
"celesbian."

01:00:10.082 --> 01:00:13.169
I got very involved in
the election of Clinton.

01:00:13.169 --> 01:00:15.046
REPORTER: For the first time
in a race for the White House,

01:00:15.046 --> 01:00:18.299
gay and lesbian issues were an
important part of the campaign.

01:00:18.299 --> 01:00:21.719
MELISSA: I was invited to
the first ever triangle ball

01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:24.055
at the inaugural celebration.

01:00:24.055 --> 01:00:27.683
This was the first time
that gays

01:00:27.683 --> 01:00:28.809
put anything like this together.

01:00:28.809 --> 01:00:30.436
The gays were acknowledged

01:00:30.436 --> 01:00:33.564
in helping Bill Clinton
get elected.

01:00:33.564 --> 01:00:35.775
We were having a blast!
Everyone was.

01:00:35.775 --> 01:00:40.821
KD Lang, she had just recently
come out, and she calls me up.

01:00:41.614 --> 01:00:44.116
And I'm proud to say right now,
I'm very proud to have been

01:00:44.116 --> 01:00:46.953
a lesbian all my life.
[cheers, applause]

01:00:46.953 --> 01:00:48.287
Wow! The place went crazy.

01:00:48.287 --> 01:00:50.665
And I was ah, I think
I just came out.

01:00:50.665 --> 01:00:53.000
Someone called and said,
"Hey, there's this

01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.003
new magazine for lesbians."

01:00:56.003 --> 01:00:57.880
And I was like,
well, this is amazing!

01:00:57.880 --> 01:00:59.173
This is great.

01:00:59.173 --> 01:01:03.344
I was so happy to be
able to help the magazine,

01:01:03.344 --> 01:01:04.762
and for them to help me.

01:01:04.762 --> 01:01:06.722
I think it worked both ways.

01:01:06.722 --> 01:01:09.725
So, a year went by till we
landed our next celebrities,

01:01:09.725 --> 01:01:11.686
which were the Indigo Girls.

01:01:11.686 --> 01:01:14.689
RACHEL: We were actually
the first glossy magazine

01:01:14.689 --> 01:01:17.441
to put Ani DiFranco
on its cover.

01:01:17.441 --> 01:01:20.569
And while I was interviewing her
on the telephone, she told me

01:01:20.569 --> 01:01:22.989
she had backed up the
toilet in her hotel room

01:01:22.989 --> 01:01:24.407
by shaving her head
into the toilet.

01:01:24.407 --> 01:01:28.828
I remember young Rachel Maddow
in her leather jacket,

01:01:28.828 --> 01:01:30.788
seeing her for the first time.

01:01:30.788 --> 01:01:33.457
CAL: We all lusted over
the covers though, right?

01:01:33.457 --> 01:01:38.045
And we were often elbowing
each other out of the way to who

01:01:38.045 --> 01:01:40.840
would get to go on the photo
shoot, who would get to go on

01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:44.051
the interview, who would
get to be on the phone call.

01:01:44.051 --> 01:01:46.846
Lucy Lawless was my favorite.

01:01:46.846 --> 01:01:48.139
Lea DeLaria.

01:01:48.139 --> 01:01:49.640
Marga Gomez.

01:01:49.640 --> 01:01:52.768
I just wanna say, my favorite
show is "Love Connection."

01:01:52.768 --> 01:01:56.897
The favorite show of many gay
men, lesbians, and bisexuals.

01:01:56.897 --> 01:01:59.317
Because it makes us feel
better about our choices.

01:01:59.317 --> 01:02:01.027
[cheering]

01:02:01.027 --> 01:02:03.237
FRANCO: We thought it
would be a no-brainer to get ads

01:02:03.237 --> 01:02:05.990
like tampons and razors.

01:02:05.990 --> 01:02:09.452
But the misconceived notion that
lesbians don't shave their legs,

01:02:09.452 --> 01:02:12.121
and that we don't use tampons.

01:02:13.956 --> 01:02:17.209
Advertisers really, you know,
struggled with figuring out

01:02:17.209 --> 01:02:19.587
how are they going to
advertise in there.

01:02:19.587 --> 01:02:22.256
INTERVIEWER: Is there a risk for
a company when it advertises in

01:02:22.256 --> 01:02:27.219
gay magazines that a right wing
group might then indeed boycott?

01:02:27.219 --> 01:02:28.804
GUEST: Absolutely.

01:02:28.804 --> 01:02:32.892
The right is very organized, and
they've used gays and lesbians

01:02:32.892 --> 01:02:34.769
as demon figures for years now.

01:02:34.769 --> 01:02:37.021
REPORTER: "Deneuve," now
in its third year, has only

01:02:37.021 --> 01:02:39.815
two mainstream ads
in its latest issue.

01:02:39.815 --> 01:02:41.734
FRANCO: It's hard
selling a gay product,

01:02:41.734 --> 01:02:43.986
and it's very hard selling
a lesbian product.

01:02:43.986 --> 01:02:46.906
So, I do think
that there's kind of

01:02:46.906 --> 01:02:49.450
this double negative going on.

01:02:49.450 --> 01:02:55.122
KATIE: The day we got Bud
Light to advertise was huge.

01:02:55.122 --> 01:02:57.208
We felt like we'd
suddenly arrived.

01:02:57.208 --> 01:02:59.543
FRANCO: Bud Light was our
feather in the cap with our

01:02:59.543 --> 01:03:01.253
first national ad.

01:03:01.253 --> 01:03:05.049
Subaru was known as the
lesbian car of choice, and they

01:03:05.049 --> 01:03:08.636
reinforced that by
making lesbian-specific ads.

01:03:08.636 --> 01:03:12.098
And it just sort of opened up
different avenues for us

01:03:12.098 --> 01:03:14.558
to break into different
advertising markets.

01:03:14.558 --> 01:03:17.395
LAURA: She had this amazing
effect that was way beyond

01:03:17.395 --> 01:03:18.854
just the readership
of "Curve" magazine

01:03:18.854 --> 01:03:20.231
and way beyond the community.

01:03:20.231 --> 01:03:23.067
The things that were discussed
in the magazine were

01:03:23.067 --> 01:03:25.653
then picked up by
mainstream publications.

01:03:25.653 --> 01:03:27.780
Those were the things
that led to all the gains

01:03:27.780 --> 01:03:29.073
that we have made.

01:03:29.073 --> 01:03:30.616
LEA: The magazine
contributed greatly to that.

01:03:30.616 --> 01:03:32.118
It was all over the world.

01:03:32.118 --> 01:03:34.995
Something shifted,
where lesbians started

01:03:34.995 --> 01:03:36.747
to enter popular culture.

01:03:36.747 --> 01:03:41.085
It began with KD Lang,
Melissa Etheridge, and very soon

01:03:41.085 --> 01:03:42.837
after that time,
Ellen and Rosie.

01:03:42.837 --> 01:03:45.256
ELLEN: Susan...I'm gay.

01:03:45.256 --> 01:03:49.260
[uproarious laughter,
cheers from audience]

01:03:50.886 --> 01:03:53.681
We do find out that the
character is Lebanese. And....

01:03:53.681 --> 01:03:54.932
[laughter]

01:03:54.932 --> 01:03:57.351
-Lebanese.
-Yeah, yeah.

01:03:57.351 --> 01:04:00.229
-Just outta the blue? She just—
-No, there've been clues.

01:04:00.229 --> 01:04:01.480
-Oh, really?
-I mean, you've seen her eating

01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:02.857
baba ghanoush, if you've
watched the show at all.

01:04:02.857 --> 01:04:04.442
[laughter]
-Baba ghanoush.

01:04:04.442 --> 01:04:07.653
-And hummus and big,
big fan of Casey Casem

01:04:07.653 --> 01:04:09.947
and Kathy and Jimmy's.
[laughter]

01:04:09.947 --> 01:04:12.199
Yeah, and—
-Hey! Wait a minute!

01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:14.243
I'm a big fan of Casey Casem.
Listen.

01:04:14.243 --> 01:04:15.494
CASEY: You go, girl!

01:04:15.494 --> 01:04:17.788
[laughter, applause]

01:04:17.788 --> 01:04:19.790
-Maybe I'm Lebanese.
-You could be Lebanese.

01:04:19.790 --> 01:04:22.251
-I could be Lebanese myself.
I didn't know that.

01:04:22.251 --> 01:04:24.879
[laughter, cheers]
-You know, sometimes that's odd.

01:04:24.879 --> 01:04:27.173
'Cause I pick up sometimes
that you might be Lebanese.

01:04:27.173 --> 01:04:28.966
-Yeah!
[laughter]

01:04:28.966 --> 01:04:29.967
MERRYN: There was
Sandra Bernhard.

01:04:29.967 --> 01:04:31.469
There was Madonna.

01:04:31.469 --> 01:04:34.013
They were glamorous, they
were successful, they were at

01:04:34.013 --> 01:04:37.224
the top of their fields,
and this was newsworthy.

01:04:37.224 --> 01:04:39.351
And on top of that,
it became fashionable.

01:04:39.351 --> 01:04:43.022
Cindy Crawford did that
famous "Vanity Fair" cover

01:04:43.022 --> 01:04:45.691
with KD Lang.
So, it was in the air.

01:04:45.691 --> 01:04:47.359
And it really entered
the zeitgeist,

01:04:47.359 --> 01:04:48.736
and it became attractive.

01:04:48.736 --> 01:04:52.698
Straight women are now
seeing lesbians as chic,

01:04:52.698 --> 01:04:54.575
although we always have been.

01:04:54.575 --> 01:04:57.703
MERRYN: The impact of
lesbian chic was to give us

01:04:57.703 --> 01:04:59.288
a sense of identity.

01:04:59.288 --> 01:05:02.791
It was to give us a
profile that we hadn't had.

01:05:02.791 --> 01:05:05.628
LAURA: When "The L Word" came
out, for example, people were

01:05:05.628 --> 01:05:08.005
skeptical about it, particularly
'cause there were a lot of

01:05:08.005 --> 01:05:10.674
femmes in there, more than
I think some people wanted.

01:05:10.674 --> 01:05:13.594
And yet, they were able to not
only create a dialogue in

01:05:13.594 --> 01:05:16.680
the magazine and let people talk
about the good things of it,

01:05:16.680 --> 01:05:18.140
the things they wished they
had seen differently, but they

01:05:18.140 --> 01:05:19.975
were putting those
images on the cover.

01:05:19.975 --> 01:05:22.061
They made "The L Word" credible.

01:05:22.061 --> 01:05:24.313
They made it part
of the mainstream.

01:05:25.439 --> 01:05:29.818
[driving music]

01:05:33.030 --> 01:05:36.784
♪ I got this feeling on a
summer day when you were gone

01:05:36.784 --> 01:05:38.827
♪ I crashed my car
into the bridge

01:05:38.827 --> 01:05:40.579
♪ I watched and let it burn

01:05:40.579 --> 01:05:44.416
♪ I threw your shit into a bag
and pushed it down the stairs

01:05:44.416 --> 01:05:47.002
♪ I crashed my car
into the bridge

01:05:47.002 --> 01:05:50.714
♪ I. Don't. Care.
I love it

01:05:50.714 --> 01:05:54.677
♪ I don't care ♪

01:05:54.677 --> 01:05:57.555
MARIAH: I started The Dinah
in 1991.

01:05:57.555 --> 01:05:59.723
We really try to create an
environment of empowerment

01:05:59.723 --> 01:06:01.725
and female visibility.

01:06:01.725 --> 01:06:04.103
I can't tell you
how many stories

01:06:04.103 --> 01:06:08.148
of people who come here to
find a sense of community

01:06:08.148 --> 01:06:10.109
that will make them feel whole.

01:06:10.109 --> 01:06:14.613
We are becoming so
accepted in mainstream society.

01:06:14.613 --> 01:06:16.532
We're not quite there yet
but we're much closer

01:06:16.532 --> 01:06:18.158
than we've ever been.

01:06:18.158 --> 01:06:22.037
And yet, we still need
our own spaces because

01:06:22.037 --> 01:06:24.456
we still have our own culture.

01:06:24.456 --> 01:06:29.336
"Curve" created a bridge for
people that connected them

01:06:29.336 --> 01:06:32.381
to our community and
to their own self-worth.

01:06:32.381 --> 01:06:36.385
Because our spaces, and
having our spaces, are critical

01:06:36.385 --> 01:06:37.761
to our collective self-esteem.

01:06:37.761 --> 01:06:40.306
[driving music continues]

01:06:40.306 --> 01:06:44.059
♪ I don't care
I love it

01:06:44.059 --> 01:06:47.021
♪ I don't care
I love it ♪

01:06:48.522 --> 01:06:51.191
RACHEL: We got someone
we wanted for the cover.

01:06:51.191 --> 01:06:55.154
We got all these great
writers to contribute pieces.

01:06:55.154 --> 01:06:58.574
We got columnists who
would write regularly.

01:06:58.574 --> 01:07:02.661
We got a great
reception everywhere we went.

01:07:02.661 --> 01:07:04.580
FRANCO: And what she's
done is so courageous.

01:07:04.580 --> 01:07:08.959
She's risked her friends,
her family, her job, her house

01:07:08.959 --> 01:07:11.420
to come and tell you who she is.

01:07:11.420 --> 01:07:13.672
And for that, I think every
woman and every person

01:07:13.672 --> 01:07:15.633
in this audience should
give her a hand.

01:07:15.633 --> 01:07:18.427
RACHEL: Franco becoming
a celebrity and representative

01:07:18.427 --> 01:07:21.722
of a new wave of lesbians
in the community,

01:07:21.722 --> 01:07:25.059
everything was a triumph,
and everything felt good.

01:07:25.059 --> 01:07:28.228
SANDI: It had become a name
that was recognizable.

01:07:28.228 --> 01:07:30.314
FRANCO: Our subscription
numbers were rising.

01:07:30.314 --> 01:07:32.733
Our newsstand sales were great.

01:07:32.733 --> 01:07:34.777
We're starting to
get national ads.

01:07:34.777 --> 01:07:36.904
Things are really good.

01:07:36.904 --> 01:07:42.284
And then one day
this letter arrived at the door:

01:07:42.284 --> 01:07:44.745
a lawsuit.

01:07:44.745 --> 01:07:47.498
The air just went out of
everything like phhhooooo.

01:07:51.710 --> 01:07:53.212
[somber music]

01:07:53.212 --> 01:07:56.548
We were sued by a French
actress named Catherine Deneuve

01:07:56.548 --> 01:07:58.550
over the name of the magazine.

01:07:59.635 --> 01:08:01.178
She didn't want
her name associated

01:08:01.178 --> 01:08:03.305
with a lesbian magazine.

01:08:03.305 --> 01:08:06.058
She didn't want anybody to
think she might be a lesbian.

01:08:07.434 --> 01:08:10.270
Really, you can sue
anybody for any reason.

01:08:10.270 --> 01:08:12.272
Those with the
deeper pockets win.

01:08:16.151 --> 01:08:19.530
RACHEL: The lawsuit came
as a complete surprise.

01:08:19.530 --> 01:08:23.867
We couldn't believe that such
a prestigious film star would

01:08:23.867 --> 01:08:26.120
really be bothering about us.

01:08:26.120 --> 01:08:29.957
And if anything, why wasn't she
delighted that this wonderful

01:08:29.957 --> 01:08:34.503
lesbian magazine
potentially bore her name?

01:08:34.503 --> 01:08:36.213
After all, she had been
in "The Hunger,"

01:08:36.213 --> 01:08:39.717
which is a lesbian cult film.

01:08:39.717 --> 01:08:42.094
DEB: It's like if I starred
in three lesbian movies, but I

01:08:42.094 --> 01:08:44.847
don't want you to call your
magazine "Deb," you know?

01:08:44.847 --> 01:08:48.392
SANDI: It seemed homophobic
and all sorts of other things.

01:08:48.392 --> 01:08:53.522
And so, it really hit Frank
in a lotta different areas.

01:08:53.522 --> 01:08:56.567
I suppose if I had
been her lawyer at the time,

01:08:56.567 --> 01:08:58.652
and she would've called me
and said, "Hey, I have this

01:08:58.652 --> 01:09:01.071
great idea for the name
of a lesbian magazine.

01:09:01.071 --> 01:09:04.908
I'd like to call it 'Deneuve',"
I probably woulda said,

01:09:04.908 --> 01:09:06.785
"Do you have her permission?"

01:09:06.785 --> 01:09:10.998
We were sued in two
different countries:

01:09:10.998 --> 01:09:14.501
two separate lawsuits, two
sets of different counsel,

01:09:14.501 --> 01:09:18.338
two sets of bills, two sets
of filing fees.

01:09:18.338 --> 01:09:23.010
We had to come up with lawyers,
we had to come up with money,

01:09:23.010 --> 01:09:25.554
and we had to go down
and do a deposition.

01:09:25.554 --> 01:09:27.639
Their focus was really on
the name of the magazine.

01:09:27.639 --> 01:09:29.516
Where did the name of
the magazine come from?

01:09:29.516 --> 01:09:32.394
It was her name, and
we had no right to it.

01:09:32.394 --> 01:09:34.688
And we were using it
to sell our magazine.

01:09:35.773 --> 01:09:39.526
All I kept thinking was
wow, they're gonna

01:09:39.526 --> 01:09:41.153
put us out of business.

01:09:41.153 --> 01:09:45.282
Was this magazine gonna fold?
Were we gonna lose our jobs?

01:09:45.282 --> 01:09:48.035
We were terrified.
And Franco was terrified.

01:09:48.702 --> 01:09:52.414
She lost weight, got real pale.

01:09:52.414 --> 01:09:56.418
You could tell the stress
was really affecting her.

01:09:56.418 --> 01:10:00.464
ROBIN: There was a light that
was gone for a little while.

01:10:00.464 --> 01:10:03.050
And at one point, she said,
"Do I keep fighting,

01:10:03.050 --> 01:10:05.928
or do I just take this
as a sign and close it up?"

01:10:06.637 --> 01:10:10.057
FRANCO: The lawsuit was the most
stressful time in my whole life.

01:10:11.475 --> 01:10:13.477
My hair started to fall out.

01:10:14.645 --> 01:10:17.648
And I didn't let on
to the true extent of

01:10:17.648 --> 01:10:20.776
the financial difficulties
that we were having.

01:10:22.402 --> 01:10:25.280
DEB: Franco came to the office,
and she was really stressed out.

01:10:25.280 --> 01:10:27.115
Her face was red.
She was sweating.

01:10:27.115 --> 01:10:29.451
She slapped this
thing down on the table.

01:10:29.451 --> 01:10:31.703
[sighs] "We got the
money for the next issue."

01:10:31.703 --> 01:10:35.707
And in this roll of paper that
she had set on the table was

01:10:35.707 --> 01:10:39.169
a giant stack of money,
like from a movie.

01:10:39.169 --> 01:10:42.256
When I walked in to take
money from a loan shark,

01:10:42.256 --> 01:10:44.967
I thought, I have
hit rock bottom.

01:10:44.967 --> 01:10:48.637
And if this fails, I might be
really physically in danger.

01:10:49.972 --> 01:10:53.934
Everybody was just up in
arms like, are you kidding?

01:10:53.934 --> 01:10:56.311
You can't take
this away from us.

01:10:56.311 --> 01:10:59.273
We're gonna have to fight
this together as a community.

01:10:59.273 --> 01:11:03.819
We really had this urgency that
we were not gonna be defeated.

01:11:03.819 --> 01:11:07.447
You know, you come so far,
you're not gonna go backward.

01:11:07.447 --> 01:11:08.949
That's how people felt.

01:11:08.949 --> 01:11:12.160
There was no way that
we could let it happen.

01:11:12.160 --> 01:11:15.914
She had this lesbian army
behind her willing to

01:11:15.914 --> 01:11:17.875
go into battle with her.

01:11:18.876 --> 01:11:22.588
The magazine was
definitely worth fighting for.

01:11:23.297 --> 01:11:27.009
There's nothing I wouldn't
do to save the magazine.

01:11:29.469 --> 01:11:34.182
CAL: One morning, she comes in,
in her full combat fatigues,

01:11:34.182 --> 01:11:37.019
and she said, "Girls, we are
not gonna let this beat us."

01:11:37.019 --> 01:11:39.062
It turned the page.

01:11:39.062 --> 01:11:41.523
FRANCO: Somebody had
an idea that we could

01:11:41.523 --> 01:11:44.234
throw a big fundraiser
to save the magazine.

01:11:44.234 --> 01:11:45.777
-I'd like to say good
morning to everybody.

01:11:45.777 --> 01:11:47.154
We didn't sleep
at all last night.

01:11:47.154 --> 01:11:48.405
-Not at all?
-No ma'am.

01:11:48.405 --> 01:11:50.282
Well, I actually snuck
in a couple of hours.

01:11:50.282 --> 01:11:52.200
Franco, 45 minutes.

01:11:53.410 --> 01:11:55.329
-Good morning, sunshine.

01:11:55.329 --> 01:11:59.291
PAGE: The idea was to gather
all of the artists that we knew

01:11:59.291 --> 01:12:03.337
and throw this massive party
to raise resources

01:12:03.337 --> 01:12:04.796
to help Frank fight.

01:12:04.796 --> 01:12:07.132
It was our community really,
really banding together

01:12:07.132 --> 01:12:08.467
to support Frank.

01:12:08.467 --> 01:12:09.843
-Tell us how
you're feeling today.

01:12:09.843 --> 01:12:13.472
-I'm really hoping—
-That everybody comes today.

01:12:13.472 --> 01:12:15.015
-[sobbing]

01:12:15.015 --> 01:12:18.185
-There's lotsa love here.
I'm seeing love.

01:12:18.185 --> 01:12:20.520
FRANCO: People we had
interviewed through the magazine

01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:23.690
found out, and they wanted
to come and fly themselves

01:12:23.690 --> 01:12:26.693
to San Francisco and
be part of this event.

01:12:26.693 --> 01:12:28.987
People wanted to donate stuff
for a silent auction

01:12:28.987 --> 01:12:32.491
and a live auction, and lesbian
celebrities even auctioned off

01:12:32.491 --> 01:12:33.825
dates with themselves.

01:12:33.825 --> 01:12:35.327
I remember Lea DeLaria.

01:12:35.327 --> 01:12:38.956
What was happening to the
magazine was fucking bullshit.

01:12:38.956 --> 01:12:41.041
And I wanted to help.

01:12:41.041 --> 01:12:44.127
We got $800 over here.
We're looking for $850.

01:12:44.127 --> 01:12:46.129
We're looking for $850.
We got $850 on the line!

01:12:46.129 --> 01:12:48.131
[cheering]

01:12:48.131 --> 01:12:49.508
I wish I could say
it's the first time

01:12:49.508 --> 01:12:51.927
I've auctioned myself
off for a date!

01:12:51.927 --> 01:12:54.304
KATIE: So many people
came out to support us.

01:12:54.304 --> 01:12:56.848
-It was like a Who's Who
of lesbian comedians,

01:12:56.848 --> 01:12:59.476
lesbian music, lesbian authors.

01:12:59.476 --> 01:13:01.436
-She'll read to you
in a limo, okay?

01:13:05.232 --> 01:13:07.943
PAGE: It was packed,
completely packed.

01:13:07.943 --> 01:13:10.195
There was so much
power in the room.

01:13:10.195 --> 01:13:12.739
It was mecca.

01:13:12.739 --> 01:13:16.410
[energetic, pulsing dance music]

01:13:39.141 --> 01:13:42.269
FRANCO: I had never seen the
lesbian community come together

01:13:42.269 --> 01:13:44.312
as a whole for
something that wasn't

01:13:44.312 --> 01:13:47.149
strictly a political movement.

01:13:50.402 --> 01:13:53.238
I mean, maybe coming together
to save the magazine

01:13:53.238 --> 01:13:55.782
was a political action.

01:13:56.700 --> 01:13:58.326
DEB: And it was just by
the love of the community

01:13:58.326 --> 01:14:00.162
and the contributions of
the people that performed

01:14:00.162 --> 01:14:02.372
that allowed us to keep going.

01:14:02.372 --> 01:14:05.083
FRANCO: And now I'm overwhelmed
by the support you're giving me

01:14:05.083 --> 01:14:06.835
and the support you're
giving the magazine.

01:14:06.835 --> 01:14:09.379
And thank you so, so much.

01:14:09.379 --> 01:14:13.508
[cheers, applause]

01:14:15.177 --> 01:14:18.555
We got to a point where
we were either like, all right,

01:14:18.555 --> 01:14:23.268
change the name and live
to publish another day.

01:14:23.268 --> 01:14:27.147
Or be stubborn, keep the name,
and go under from just

01:14:27.147 --> 01:14:28.774
the legal fees alone.

01:14:28.774 --> 01:14:34.571
And we were able to settle,
and the settlement required us

01:14:34.571 --> 01:14:35.864
to change our name.

01:14:35.864 --> 01:14:38.950
One day, Franco came
and she says, "I got it."

01:14:38.950 --> 01:14:41.036
And she had been sitting
on a bench somewhere

01:14:41.036 --> 01:14:43.121
looking out at a view.

01:14:43.121 --> 01:14:47.209
And she noticed that
the hills were curvaceous,

01:14:47.209 --> 01:14:49.961
and she thought "Curve."

01:14:49.961 --> 01:14:50.962
"Curve."

01:14:50.962 --> 01:14:52.964
We were like what?!
We loved it.

01:14:52.964 --> 01:14:54.257
VICKI: That's a great name!

01:14:54.716 --> 01:14:56.635
We've changed
the name starting

01:14:56.635 --> 01:15:00.889
with the January '96
Martina Navratilova cover.

01:15:00.889 --> 01:15:04.351
The same magazine, the same
product with just a new name.

01:15:04.351 --> 01:15:06.186
"Curve" isn't straight.

01:15:06.186 --> 01:15:09.856
It's bent, it's gay, it's...

01:15:09.856 --> 01:15:12.234
the curves of a woman's body,
it's beautiful.

01:15:12.234 --> 01:15:13.318
It's a much better name.

01:15:13.318 --> 01:15:14.528
People can pronounce it!

01:15:14.528 --> 01:15:16.446
-Thanks, "Curve."

01:15:17.364 --> 01:15:20.367
[pensive music]

01:15:23.495 --> 01:15:26.456
[music slowly fades out]

01:15:27.332 --> 01:15:30.877
[birds singing, distant traffic]

01:15:31.670 --> 01:15:35.090
[hooves against the dirt track]

01:15:41.012 --> 01:15:43.723
FRANCO: Every month,
we'd get in these boxes.

01:15:43.723 --> 01:15:47.269
Each box weighed
33 to 35 pounds.

01:15:47.269 --> 01:15:49.104
Magazines, like a
little box like this.

01:15:49.104 --> 01:15:50.981
But they were heavy.

01:15:50.981 --> 01:15:53.900
So, I would pile two or three
boxes up, and I would

01:15:53.900 --> 01:15:55.110
just carry them to the back.

01:15:55.110 --> 01:15:58.196
We'd get done twice
or three times as fast!

01:15:59.447 --> 01:16:07.581
And I would cut through the
kitchen, and we had this carpet.

01:16:07.581 --> 01:16:11.960
And I must've just hit the
carpet wrong because....

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:13.879
I hit the carpet wrong,
and I just remember

01:16:13.879 --> 01:16:18.592
that feeling of like...you know.

01:16:18.592 --> 01:16:24.514
The next thing I knew I was
just in a lot of pain, and I was

01:16:24.514 --> 01:16:26.725
on my way to the hospital.

01:16:27.934 --> 01:16:30.854
[pensive music]

01:16:31.855 --> 01:16:33.607
LAURA: When I walked
into the hospital room,

01:16:33.607 --> 01:16:35.817
I was like, what happened?

01:16:35.817 --> 01:16:39.738
I mean, dropping boxes on her
feet, they dropped and literally

01:16:39.738 --> 01:16:42.782
crushed the bones in her
feet, the tendons in her feet.

01:16:42.782 --> 01:16:45.035
And the doctors were
like, oh, it'll heal.

01:16:45.035 --> 01:16:47.829
It's just, it's like a broken
foot. You'll be fine.

01:16:47.829 --> 01:16:50.123
I don't think that I or
any of her friends really

01:16:50.123 --> 01:16:53.960
at the time knew
how much pain she really was in.

01:16:53.960 --> 01:16:56.421
I think we all thought
an accident happened,

01:16:56.421 --> 01:17:00.300
no problem, it'll heal.
And she'll be back.

01:17:01.426 --> 01:17:04.804
Week after week of doing that,
it clearly was, we were starting

01:17:04.804 --> 01:17:08.350
to realize that something
was not, it was not fine.

01:17:10.310 --> 01:17:13.021
The pain wasn't
decreasing at all.

01:17:13.021 --> 01:17:14.856
She's going to multiple doctors.

01:17:14.856 --> 01:17:18.109
Now she's having
multiple surgeries.

01:17:18.109 --> 01:17:22.948
Every time I seem like I had
surgery, instead of getting

01:17:22.948 --> 01:17:26.451
better, my feet would just
get more and more sensitive

01:17:26.451 --> 01:17:30.622
to the point where I could not
wear shoes and socks.

01:17:30.622 --> 01:17:33.833
I couldn't have the
covers touching my feet.

01:17:33.833 --> 01:17:37.587
I couldn't even put my
feet in running water.

01:17:38.505 --> 01:17:40.173
-What did it feel like?

01:17:40.173 --> 01:17:42.717
-Like knives or
like being burnt.

01:17:43.802 --> 01:17:46.054
She hid a lot of her pain.

01:17:46.054 --> 01:17:49.849
She hid, I think, a lot of
how it was affecting her.

01:17:49.849 --> 01:17:53.019
Because she wanted to
portray the person that everyone

01:17:53.019 --> 01:17:58.775
saw her as: this very strong,
invincible person

01:17:58.775 --> 01:18:00.527
that could do anything.

01:18:06.449 --> 01:18:10.328
Finally, she realized, I have to
change how I'm living my life.

01:18:11.121 --> 01:18:14.749
And it started to dawn on
her that she was probably

01:18:14.749 --> 01:18:17.127
not gonna be able to continue
to run the magazine.

01:18:23.758 --> 01:18:26.761
FRANCO: This is what it's like.
Give me your hand.

01:18:26.761 --> 01:18:28.680
JEN: Uuuuuh.... No.

01:18:28.680 --> 01:18:30.807
FRANCO: Give me your hand.
This is what it's like.

01:18:30.807 --> 01:18:32.392
I'm sitting here.

01:18:32.392 --> 01:18:35.353
I'm in a meeting, and this is
what's happening with my foot.

01:18:35.353 --> 01:18:37.397
Talk to me. Talk to me.

01:18:37.397 --> 01:18:40.942
You might get stabbed at
any time by this sharp object.

01:18:44.237 --> 01:18:48.783
You know, this is why I didn't
continue to do the magazine.

01:18:48.783 --> 01:18:51.119
This is why I had to
turn it over.

01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.122
It's like, I can't sit here
and be completely present

01:18:54.122 --> 01:18:56.750
because of the pain.

01:18:56.750 --> 01:18:59.794
And not only like the
physical pain, but this anx-,

01:18:59.794 --> 01:19:05.216
this pain of like, okay,
concentrate now.

01:19:05.216 --> 01:19:09.971
You never know when this is
gonna come down and stab you.

01:19:09.971 --> 01:19:11.806
And it's very exhausting.

01:19:18.271 --> 01:19:20.732
People had wanted to buy
the magazine for a long time,

01:19:20.732 --> 01:19:22.609
but I was not ready.

01:19:32.285 --> 01:19:36.289
I wanted to sell it to
somebody who really was in it

01:19:36.289 --> 01:19:39.084
for the right reasons,
and that was her.

01:19:39.084 --> 01:19:41.127
-Yeah.
-So.

01:19:44.631 --> 01:19:46.508
No regrets.

01:19:46.508 --> 01:19:50.804
I felt like my work needed to
be carried on by other people.

01:19:53.264 --> 01:19:55.392
-It's Merryn.
How are you?

01:19:56.851 --> 01:20:00.397
Franco did a very brave thing
when she put the word "lesbian"

01:20:00.397 --> 01:20:02.816
on the cover of
"Curve" magazine.

01:20:02.816 --> 01:20:06.069
And to just get that on
the front of a magazine

01:20:06.069 --> 01:20:07.737
was a victory.

01:20:07.737 --> 01:20:12.117
To have many requests from
readers asking me to take that

01:20:12.117 --> 01:20:16.079
word off, because they felt it
was excluding or erasing them

01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:19.457
seemed to me like we
were going back in history.

01:20:19.457 --> 01:20:23.420
I think it's necessary for
individuals to use the words

01:20:23.420 --> 01:20:28.174
that they, themselves, identify
with, without fear of reprisal

01:20:28.174 --> 01:20:31.302
or without fear of being
accused of erasing somebody

01:20:31.302 --> 01:20:33.721
with a different
identity to them.

01:20:33.721 --> 01:20:37.434
In the end, I and my
publisher, Silke Bader,

01:20:37.434 --> 01:20:40.061
decided to remove the word.

01:20:40.061 --> 01:20:42.605
For better or worse,
it is now gone.

01:20:42.605 --> 01:20:45.567
The magazine has a much
broader aesthetic now.

01:20:45.567 --> 01:20:48.736
It can be whatever you
want it to be for you.

01:20:58.371 --> 01:21:00.498
-Yeah, there it is!

01:21:00.498 --> 01:21:03.418
So, it definitely
looks a lot different today

01:21:03.418 --> 01:21:05.462
than it did back then.

01:21:05.462 --> 01:21:08.339
-It kinda looks like a
"Vogue"-type magazine,

01:21:08.339 --> 01:21:09.632
like high fashion.

01:21:09.632 --> 01:21:11.634
-Yeah, it would be.

01:21:11.634 --> 01:21:15.889
I just don't know how
you would know that that's

01:21:15.889 --> 01:21:17.932
a lesbian magazine
from the front cover.

01:21:20.268 --> 01:21:22.061
-Gay media used to be
a very big deal:

01:21:22.061 --> 01:21:24.063
"The Advocate,"
"Curve," all the others.

01:21:24.063 --> 01:21:25.815
And now that's
been mainstreamed.

01:21:25.815 --> 01:21:28.109
There's so much gay material
in mainstream media,

01:21:28.109 --> 01:21:29.777
which is sort of
the success, right?

01:21:29.777 --> 01:21:31.404
That it's there,
so you don't need

01:21:31.404 --> 01:21:33.364
these separate publications.

01:21:33.364 --> 01:21:35.783
And so, it's happened not
just with gay magazines,

01:21:35.783 --> 01:21:38.328
but you know,
African-American magazines.

01:21:38.328 --> 01:21:39.829
Now things have
been mainstreamed.

01:21:39.829 --> 01:21:42.624
And so, that's a good
thing and a bad thing.

01:21:42.624 --> 01:21:45.919
That's a success, and it's
also a loss at the same time.

01:21:55.845 --> 01:21:58.264
FRANCO: We're trying to
figure out is a lesbian magazine

01:21:58.264 --> 01:22:00.016
still needed today?

01:22:00.016 --> 01:22:04.604
I mean the mission was really to
foster lesbian visibility within

01:22:04.604 --> 01:22:08.107
our community and also
externally from the outside in.

01:22:08.107 --> 01:22:09.734
And is the
mission still relevant?

01:22:09.734 --> 01:22:11.903
-It's still really
relevant and very important.

01:22:11.903 --> 01:22:13.404
Yeah.

01:22:13.404 --> 01:22:15.406
-We still need a reminder
of the history of our movement

01:22:15.406 --> 01:22:18.326
and also a beat
on what's happening.

01:22:18.326 --> 01:22:20.495
FRANCO: But does it need to
be a physical print magazine?

01:22:20.495 --> 01:22:22.372
EMILY: No, I don't think so.
-Do you read magazines?

01:22:22.372 --> 01:22:23.540
-No, I don't.
-Do you read magazines?

01:22:23.540 --> 01:22:24.541
-No.
-[laughs]

01:22:24.541 --> 01:22:26.626
-Magazines? Magazines?

01:22:26.626 --> 01:22:29.003
I think there's different
ways to tell stories than just

01:22:29.003 --> 01:22:30.588
actually writing them out.

01:22:30.588 --> 01:22:32.632
-There's this huge misconception
that because we have marriage

01:22:32.632 --> 01:22:34.592
equality, we must have
employment protections.

01:22:34.592 --> 01:22:36.010
We must have
housing protections.

01:22:36.010 --> 01:22:38.555
We must have public
accommodation discrimination

01:22:38.555 --> 01:22:41.266
protections, and we
don't on a national level.

01:22:41.266 --> 01:22:43.977
So, we get calls every day from
people whose children are being

01:22:43.977 --> 01:22:46.354
taken away from them by the
courts because the judge is

01:22:46.354 --> 01:22:48.106
homophobic or transphobic.

01:22:48.106 --> 01:22:50.733
We get calls every day by
people who are denied basic

01:22:50.733 --> 01:22:53.194
medical care because
of their identity.

01:22:53.194 --> 01:22:54.445
-People are really scared.

01:22:54.445 --> 01:22:56.781
People are really scared
of what's coming next.

01:22:56.781 --> 01:23:00.493
And it's not safe to
be queer right now.

01:23:00.493 --> 01:23:02.078
It just isn't.

01:23:02.078 --> 01:23:03.705
MARCHERS: What do we want?
Gay rights!

01:23:03.705 --> 01:23:06.165
When do we want them?
Now!

01:23:06.165 --> 01:23:09.210
-We've been
fighting for equality.

01:23:10.211 --> 01:23:15.508
We've been fighting to not get
beat up or to have our job taken

01:23:15.508 --> 01:23:19.846
away because of who we
love: very, very sort of basic.

01:23:20.847 --> 01:23:24.517
And in that fight,
we became more visible.

01:23:24.517 --> 01:23:28.730
As we became more visible,
we also became a target.

01:23:28.730 --> 01:23:31.357
-You know, you're obviously a
strong advocate for lesbian

01:23:31.357 --> 01:23:33.526
rights, and you've mentioned
that you'd someday like to

01:23:33.526 --> 01:23:34.944
have a child or children.

01:23:34.944 --> 01:23:37.488
How would you raise the child?
Could you be neutral?

01:23:37.488 --> 01:23:39.741
FRANCO: I'd raise a child
as a child should be raised,

01:23:39.741 --> 01:23:41.075
in a loving family.

01:23:41.075 --> 01:23:44.829
-I wonder if you can
give the child options.

01:23:44.829 --> 01:23:46.414
GERALDO: What she's
saying is—and we're

01:23:46.414 --> 01:23:48.875
skirting around it—she's saying
that you're gonna propagandize

01:23:48.875 --> 01:23:51.711
and brainwash the child
into being gay like you.

01:23:51.711 --> 01:23:54.005
-I mean, shouldn't the kid
have a right to a father?

01:23:54.005 --> 01:23:56.966
What are you gonna tell the kid
when he asks, "Where's Daddy?"

01:23:56.966 --> 01:23:59.177
"Oh, he's the one with the
breasts." I mean, come on.

01:23:59.177 --> 01:24:01.721
KATIE: I looked forward to the
day that a magazine like ours

01:24:01.721 --> 01:24:04.140
wouldn't be necessary
because we wouldn't

01:24:04.140 --> 01:24:07.268
be discriminated against.
We wouldn't be isolated.

01:24:07.268 --> 01:24:10.396
We would see ourselves
reflected everywhere.

01:24:11.230 --> 01:24:14.651
And to some extent,
we've made huge strides.

01:24:14.651 --> 01:24:18.571
I feel like in the last couple
of years, we've started to go

01:24:18.571 --> 01:24:20.990
backwards, and things
that we took for granted

01:24:20.990 --> 01:24:23.743
are now in question again.

01:24:23.743 --> 01:24:26.454
DEB: What's at risk right
now for the gay community is a

01:24:26.454 --> 01:24:30.667
throwback to discrimination
and being seen as "other."

01:24:30.667 --> 01:24:32.585
And I think it's
really important

01:24:32.585 --> 01:24:35.880
to not let up for a minute.

01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:38.633
The old line, people who don't
know their history are doomed to

01:24:38.633 --> 01:24:42.679
repeat it, what everybody fought
so hard for could be lost.

01:24:42.679 --> 01:24:48.768
-There's a sense that because
gay marriage is no longer

01:24:48.768 --> 01:24:52.897
an impossibility, people
have an illusion of safety.

01:24:53.773 --> 01:24:58.319
How safe any of us are...
I don't know.

01:24:59.821 --> 01:25:01.906
[suspenseful music]

01:25:01.906 --> 01:25:05.368
There is growing concern in
this country, and fear, about

01:25:05.368 --> 01:25:08.287
deadly attacks against
transgender Americans,

01:25:08.287 --> 01:25:10.707
particularly trans
women of color.

01:25:10.707 --> 01:25:14.043
More than 100 anti-LGBT
bills have been

01:25:14.043 --> 01:25:16.129
introduced in 29 states.

01:25:16.129 --> 01:25:19.549
The U.S. Supreme Court sided
today with a Colorado baker

01:25:19.549 --> 01:25:22.510
who refused, on religious
grounds, to make a wedding cake

01:25:22.510 --> 01:25:24.095
for a same-sex couple.

01:25:24.095 --> 01:25:26.389
REPORTER: Georgia became
the first U.S. state to pass

01:25:26.389 --> 01:25:29.392
a so-called religious freedom
bill, allowing businesses and

01:25:29.392 --> 01:25:32.812
organizations to withhold
services from gays and lesbians.

01:25:32.812 --> 01:25:34.689
Mississippi passed
its own version.

01:25:34.689 --> 01:25:36.774
Critics say it's
the harshest yet.

01:25:36.774 --> 01:25:38.818
-When it comes to marriage,
obviously the Supreme Court

01:25:38.818 --> 01:25:41.904
handed us a huge victory in
2015 recognizing the freedom

01:25:41.904 --> 01:25:43.865
to marry for same-sex couples.

01:25:43.865 --> 01:25:46.743
But in another sense,
we're subject to a patchwork

01:25:46.743 --> 01:25:50.163
of state protections: Only 28
states expressly protecting

01:25:50.163 --> 01:25:52.957
people who are LGBT from
being turned away from

01:25:52.957 --> 01:25:56.335
housing or public places
simply because of who they are.

01:25:56.335 --> 01:25:57.795
All of a sudden,
the rights that

01:25:57.795 --> 01:26:00.798
we didn't even realize
we had are gone.

01:26:00.798 --> 01:26:03.259
Like little things that
protected us in our jobs

01:26:03.259 --> 01:26:05.470
in different cities and stuff
like that, they've all been

01:26:05.470 --> 01:26:06.971
just like picked,
picked, picked away.

01:26:06.971 --> 01:26:09.849
This administration has
told the Supreme Court that

01:26:09.849 --> 01:26:12.226
employers should be free
to fire people simply because

01:26:12.226 --> 01:26:14.562
they're gay or transgender.

01:26:14.562 --> 01:26:17.148
Similarly, the administration
has told transgender troops

01:26:17.148 --> 01:26:18.941
they're not welcome to serve
in our military

01:26:18.941 --> 01:26:20.485
unless they hide who they are.

01:26:20.485 --> 01:26:22.570
The new regulation
keeps transgender troops

01:26:22.570 --> 01:26:23.780
from serving openly.

01:26:23.780 --> 01:26:25.615
It also blocks troops
from receiving care

01:26:25.615 --> 01:26:27.742
if they transition
to another gender.

01:26:27.742 --> 01:26:29.285
-...the fact that
we're being erased by

01:26:29.285 --> 01:26:31.704
this current administration
from the websites.

01:26:31.704 --> 01:26:34.040
We're being erased
from the census bureau.

01:26:34.040 --> 01:26:36.584
-You know, if we're not
counted, we're not visible.

01:26:36.584 --> 01:26:39.670
All of these moves are efforts
to push LGBTQ people

01:26:39.670 --> 01:26:42.548
out of public life, to
push us back to where

01:26:42.548 --> 01:26:45.259
they think we belong, and
to roll back civil rights

01:26:45.259 --> 01:26:48.137
protections we've
enjoyed for decades now.

01:26:50.139 --> 01:26:52.850
[uplifting music,
flags waving in the wind]

01:26:52.850 --> 01:26:55.686
FRANCO: I thought that once
we achieved marriage equality,

01:26:55.686 --> 01:26:58.022
that we would have equal
rights across the board.

01:26:58.022 --> 01:27:03.277
Instead of now, we're doing this
slide down the hill, of yes,

01:27:03.277 --> 01:27:06.447
we got that right, but we're
really under attack now.

01:27:06.447 --> 01:27:09.033
Conservative forces are
trying to dehumanize us

01:27:09.033 --> 01:27:10.493
every single day.

01:27:10.493 --> 01:27:12.537
When I think of "Curve,"
I think again, it's this power

01:27:12.537 --> 01:27:15.540
of a space that's ours, right?

01:27:15.540 --> 01:27:17.583
And the space doesn't
have to be just publication.

01:27:17.583 --> 01:27:19.293
I mean, it's creating
that space, it's fighting for

01:27:19.293 --> 01:27:22.713
that space, and also letting
younger folks know that there is

01:27:22.713 --> 01:27:24.882
that space, when they're ready.

01:27:24.882 --> 01:27:27.176
And that we're
ready to support them.

01:27:27.176 --> 01:27:30.304
-You know, that's always
been the mission at "Curve."

01:27:34.684 --> 01:27:35.893
[knocking]

01:27:35.893 --> 01:27:37.019
FRANCO: Come in!
[dog barks]

01:27:37.019 --> 01:27:38.813
LAURA: Hey, Frank!

01:27:38.813 --> 01:27:43.067
What you started was, at
the time, and granted you were

01:27:43.067 --> 01:27:45.778
on the shoulders
of other lesbians—

01:27:45.778 --> 01:27:47.405
and women before you.
-The greats, yes.

01:27:47.405 --> 01:27:48.781
For sure.

01:27:48.781 --> 01:27:51.033
I didn't start the movement.
That's for darn sure!

01:27:51.033 --> 01:27:52.618
-Right, right, right.
No, of course not.

01:27:52.618 --> 01:27:55.788
But you created a foundation
to fight for equality.

01:27:55.788 --> 01:27:58.666
You created a foundation
for dialogue and creating

01:27:58.666 --> 01:28:01.752
conversations and content
that nobody was creating.

01:28:01.752 --> 01:28:03.963
-I think it's really
interesting that you keep

01:28:03.963 --> 01:28:05.548
using this word "foundation."

01:28:05.548 --> 01:28:11.429
Because maybe "Curve" could be
a foundation going forward:

01:28:11.429 --> 01:28:16.601
a foundation to foster
women's voices, and give money

01:28:16.601 --> 01:28:18.895
to projects that
women are doing.

01:28:19.729 --> 01:28:23.524
You know, from going around
North America, really, and

01:28:23.524 --> 01:28:28.029
speaking to younger activists,
they all said the same thing:

01:28:28.029 --> 01:28:31.532
that our voices
need to be heard.

01:28:32.783 --> 01:28:36.537
Meeting them was very powerful.

01:28:36.537 --> 01:28:42.335
They really are true
advocates for our community.

01:28:42.335 --> 01:28:45.004
Maybe a print magazine
isn't needed anymore.

01:28:45.004 --> 01:28:46.047
Maybe I've fulfilled
that mission.

01:28:46.047 --> 01:28:47.256
-Yeah.

01:28:47.256 --> 01:28:52.595
-But giving a voice
to the LGBT community,

01:28:52.595 --> 01:28:55.389
that vision is not accomplished.

01:28:55.389 --> 01:28:58.517
Having equal rights
is not accomplished.

01:28:58.517 --> 01:29:02.855
-Are you ready to let
the print magazine go?

01:29:04.690 --> 01:29:07.693
-[heavy sigh]

01:29:07.693 --> 01:29:10.488
If the community's saying
they don't need that anymore,

01:29:10.488 --> 01:29:13.240
I have to come to grips with it.

01:29:14.992 --> 01:29:18.955
It's gonna be one of those
hard days in my life for sure,

01:29:18.955 --> 01:29:22.500
when the last print edition
of "Curve" comes out.

01:29:24.752 --> 01:29:28.047
I don't feel like
without a magazine,

01:29:28.047 --> 01:29:30.716
there's no me, you know?

01:29:30.716 --> 01:29:35.137
I feel like I have...

01:29:35.137 --> 01:29:37.139
you know, I have
made a difference.

01:29:43.771 --> 01:29:48.109
Running a magazine, you...

01:29:48.109 --> 01:29:52.822
learn that the impossible things
can become possible.

01:29:55.032 --> 01:29:56.826
[mellow music]

01:29:56.826 --> 01:29:59.203
DENICE: It's so incredibly
important for us to be connected

01:29:59.203 --> 01:30:01.831
to our lineage, to those
who came before us.

01:30:02.832 --> 01:30:05.668
I often think about those who
walk through a door and cracked

01:30:05.668 --> 01:30:09.005
it open wider, so that we could
walk through it after them.

01:30:10.631 --> 01:30:13.968
There's still a lot of work
to do to fight homophobia,

01:30:13.968 --> 01:30:17.763
to fight transphobia,
to fight gender violence.

01:30:17.763 --> 01:30:22.476
So, when I hear young people
say, "I feel less alone because

01:30:22.476 --> 01:30:26.605
I listen to your poems every
night," or, "I wrote my own poem

01:30:26.605 --> 01:30:30.151
because of your poem,"
I feel like maybe I'm doing

01:30:30.151 --> 01:30:31.819
a little bit of
good in the world.

01:30:32.945 --> 01:30:36.323
KIM: Fifty years ago,
I could not exist!

01:30:36.323 --> 01:30:38.784
I could not have this family.
I could not have this life.

01:30:38.784 --> 01:30:42.246
I could not do the things that I
do or say the things that I say.

01:30:42.246 --> 01:30:44.790
And there are so many
people who have made it possible

01:30:44.790 --> 01:30:46.876
for this moment in time.

01:30:46.876 --> 01:30:48.961
I feel like, thank you!"

01:30:48.961 --> 01:30:52.298
And so, I have work to do
with this, because this space

01:30:52.298 --> 01:30:54.467
is constantly under threat.

01:30:54.467 --> 01:30:59.972
Ideally, visibility looks like
us being able to be the authors

01:30:59.972 --> 01:31:04.935
of our own experience and to
be able to tell our own stories.

01:31:04.935 --> 01:31:08.731
I mean, I'm committed to
making sure that generations

01:31:08.731 --> 01:31:12.193
in the future see more
visibility, more freedom

01:31:12.193 --> 01:31:14.528
than what we have access to now.

01:31:15.446 --> 01:31:18.240
ANDREA: The reality is that our
movement still needs mentorship.

01:31:18.240 --> 01:31:21.744
And I see myself as a person
who can be that for other people

01:31:21.744 --> 01:31:23.871
by living authentically,
by telling my story,

01:31:23.871 --> 01:31:25.831
by being all of who I am.

01:31:26.832 --> 01:31:29.794
When there is so much at stake
right now, our positive stories

01:31:29.794 --> 01:31:32.463
are some of the most
powerful tools that we have.

01:31:32.463 --> 01:31:34.924
I want folks to pay attention
rather than to just think

01:31:34.924 --> 01:31:37.218
that this is something
that we can't correct.

01:31:37.218 --> 01:31:41.055
Now is the time to go to that
8:00 AM march on a Saturday,

01:31:41.055 --> 01:31:44.058
to vote in every single
election, to run for office

01:31:44.058 --> 01:31:47.937
if you feel like you can, to
speak up, to share your story.

01:31:47.937 --> 01:31:50.314
This is what makes our
visibility so powerful.

01:31:51.732 --> 01:31:53.859
[upbeat music in the parade,
happily cheering crowds]

01:31:53.859 --> 01:31:57.571
[dance music: "Everybody
Everybody" by Black Box]

01:32:18.175 --> 01:32:21.637
♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

01:32:21.637 --> 01:32:26.642
♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

01:32:29.145 --> 01:32:32.648
[dance music continues]

01:32:42.825 --> 01:32:46.829
♪ You won't belong to me
I let you down

01:32:46.829 --> 01:32:50.958
♪ I walk around and
see your night skyline

01:32:50.958 --> 01:32:55.004
♪ I feel the light but
you don't want to stay

01:32:55.004 --> 01:32:57.965
♪ So lonely now,
just let me off downtown

01:32:57.965 --> 01:33:06.182
♪ Set it free, set it free

01:33:06.182 --> 01:33:13.063
♪ Set it free, set it free....

01:33:13.063 --> 01:33:15.441
FRANCO: I feel lucky.

01:33:15.441 --> 01:33:17.276
Most people can
spend a lifetime

01:33:17.276 --> 01:33:20.029
and still never know why
they were put here on earth.

01:33:21.155 --> 01:33:23.407
I was here to
create the magazine.

01:33:24.742 --> 01:33:26.660
Every time we put out
a magazine, it felt

01:33:26.660 --> 01:33:30.497
groundbreaking, like the
work was so important.

01:33:31.248 --> 01:33:33.751
And the work is not done.

01:33:36.045 --> 01:33:38.130
I feel hopeful.

01:33:38.130 --> 01:33:40.674
I'm really excited to see what
the next generation of activists

01:33:40.674 --> 01:33:43.219
do and how they use make the
changes that need to happen.

01:33:44.386 --> 01:33:45.930
Maybe I helped
lay the foundation

01:33:45.930 --> 01:33:47.973
for what will come next.

01:33:49.350 --> 01:33:51.769
Now, that would be my legacy.

01:33:51.769 --> 01:33:55.940
♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

01:34:04.323 --> 01:34:08.202
♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

01:34:08.202 --> 01:34:12.456
♪ Ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ooh

01:34:16.585 --> 01:34:19.755
♪ Everybody, everybody
Everybody, everybody

01:34:19.755 --> 01:34:26.929
♪ Oh, everybody! Everybody!
Everybody!

01:34:26.929 --> 01:34:28.555
♪ Everybody, everybody
Everybody, everybody

01:34:28.555 --> 01:34:30.933
♪ Oh, everybody
Everybody, everybody

01:34:30.933 --> 01:34:32.768
♪ Everybody, everybody ♪

01:34:34.770 --> 01:34:38.274
[upbeat music]