My Bones are Woven - Transcript

 

Starts: Music

Scraping noise

Clock ticking

 

00:00:28:16 - 00:01:08:02

Ann Sutton, Artist

Oh, yuck. Gorgeous. Unctuous That's what it is, unctuous. Oh, God, It's so sexy. (laughs) If you have fun, it shows. I'm like a kid with a new toy. you see, a new way of putting

paint on, it's just fabulous.

 

00:01:15:15 - 00:01:46:23

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying not to get effects. It may sound odd. It's a little game I play. You've got to, you've just got to be wary of it. I'm kind of wary of it in all spheres,

especially when with people. Some people talk only for effect. Don't have anything to say really. It's all on the surface.

 

00:01:46:23 - 00:02:26:22

And there's no, there's no meaning behind it. Real people can suss it out. Whoops. I think because I live alone, I'm not very verbose. Not teaching these days. I'm not, I'm not used

to putting things into words. And um, I think, I don't think it should matter too much with the work. Now then, I think we'll put orange at the bottom there.

 

00:02:26:37 - 00:02:57:05

I got so involved in my orange paint, I forgot what I was going to say. See how paint can take over. Oh yeah. Design. If I was designing for industry, it was my job to create fabrics that

appeal to as many people as possible. Therefore creating work for as many people as possible to make successful design. You had to study other people and what they might want and then put you into it as well.

 

00:02:57:05 - 00:03:24:38

It's not easy. When I was working with design I would be thinking about the fine art, when I was doing the fine art, I'd be thinking about design quite often and um It looks like a real mess up there but it'll be alright when it's cut. Honestly, believe me. I like to have a challenge behind me. I mean, you think I haven't got a challenge in this. I know exactly what I'm doing because I'm trailing the color down and putting the last color I did on top of the next one just to see how it looks. I give myself a rule and if I didn't have rules

I might as well go and play in a playground, which would be nice - for a while. That went quite well considering it was a new way to put the paint on.

I liked doing that. Going to take a bit of getting used to, but worth it.

 

Right, I think that's all I'm going to do today. Over 40 years ago I needed somewhere cheap to live and work And I found this house in a terrible state and decided to move in. I took a few photographs first, fortunately, because I was going through a divorce and I did want to show what I was living in, in comparison to the one I just left really.

 

00:04:54:08 - 00:05:18:40

All the ceilings were on the floor, all the walls were crumbling, but you could smell it was sound underneath. You know, I know about buildings and there's a smell of a rotten building, and this one didn't have it. And it's proved to be right. I broke my way through, through cobwebs, got up to the studio and found, the found the room I wanted to work in for the rest of my life.

 

00:05:18:40 - 00:05:47:00

I wanted to keep the staircase very clear. I don't like bits and bobs and nicks and nacks I don't like them anywhere, but especially through passages. I like a bold treatment, which is how parts of it became like a piece of paint and sculpture. And this was done by a very talented chap called Bernard Forrester, and he was a whiz with making three dimensional pieces which needed light to make them function.

 

00:06:02:16 - 00:06:27:18

Ruth McCorquodale, Ann's Assistant

Good morning. I've just caught an Interflora delivery lady outside with a card.

Ann: How fantastic!

Ruth: So they are for you. And so, you had a nice birthday?

Ann: Had a lovely, lovely, lovely time. Couldn't have been better.

Ruth: That's it, just protects the table a bit I know what you're like, you'll be splashing everywhere. Absolutely. If I put that in the middle then we can paint from other side. We don't need that one, do we? Just that one?

Ann: So much better on black, Ruth. So much better. I just wish we could have got away with it in space. Never mind.

Ruth: Now, these should be all right. I did clean them all up, let me just make sure they're all working.

Ann: This is where we go into our operating theatre mode, isn't it?

 

00:06:53:13 - 00:07:52:08

Ruth: Whoa! Ann! Sorry! Oh, my God. There it is - look! (laughs) Did you want purple on it?

Ann: It's rather good. Well, that's you sacked I'm afraid.

Ruth: I'm sacked, that's it, look for another job. Yeah. Right, we're off!

Ann: Ooh it's thick Ruth,

Ruth: you might have to roll your sleeve up.

Ann: Good thinking Batman, whoops.

Ruth: You're doing a grand job. Keep going, Keep going.

Ann: I am, I am. Aaaw, look at them, So juicy, I like this new juicy look.

 

00:07:52:08 - 00:08:22:05

Ann: Ah alright, okay Like it! It was done on purpose! Of course it was. I'm loving the, the way the colors come through one another and jump off in an accidental way. But of course, it's still weave underneath.

Ruth: I'm a very practical person. Very, very practical.

Ann: Artists can be practical too you know

Ruth: I don't have ideas, not artistic ideas, but I have practical ways to do them.

Ann: Which is the best way for an assistant.

Ann: We don't want any ideas around here!

 

00:08:24:02 - 00:08:44:12

Ruth: Yeah, the ideas are Ann's.

Ann: I have an idea maybe at three o'clock in the morning, get it down on a pad that I keep by my bed. Just a quick drawing and then work it out a bit over breakfast and then come up with it to Ruth and say, look, I've thought of a new structure.

 

00:08:44:40 - 00:09:08:00

Ann: These are not things we've ever done before because none of the things we've done are known techniques. You don't find them in any books. I'm 84 yesterday, but it's only a number, isn't it?

I tell myself I'm very lucky to be able to carry on. But on the other hand, I think carrying on helps me carry on. Does that make sense?

 

00:09:08:00 - 00:09:32:29

Ann: I feel so sorry for people who don't have an urge to get up in the morning to try something out. I mean, with us it's a bit like a lab and we're working on ideas and then another idea sparks in from the side and the next morning I have to get to it. And that is a brilliant way to be at any age, but especially when you're old.

 

00:09:32:29 - 00:10:14:08

Ann: God, I'm sounding like an evangelist, Which I am. I feel strongly about it. I never know what to expect. I come here in the morning and there's some crazy idea.

Ruth: She's got her book and off

we go again. I never know what to expect every time I come into work. It's great fun.

Ann: That's why we have to keep so many different materials around because we never know what we're going to be using.

It could be wire, it could be paint. It could be artex. A mixture of the two. You know.

Ann: Hey, we haven't tried that! Material. We haven't tried wire paint. Wire and paint. No. Hmm. I've just had an idea. (laughs)

Ruth: and this is how it goes.

Ann: That's how it goes.

 

At Arundel Railway station:

00:10:34:33 -  

Sound of train

Ann: Reiko-san, Reiko-san, You found us. You found us. Oh, how lovely.

Reiko Sudo: Unbelievable.

Ann: You look terrific. You look wonderful.

Reiko: Unbelievable.

It is unbelievable. Yes, yes yes. 

Reiko: It's a long time. No see.

Ann: Oh, never mind you're here. Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic. Aw,

Reiko: Are you ok?

Ann: Yes, I'm fine. I'm just slow at walking, but that's the only thing the matter, so that's ok. No problem.

 

00:11:05:35 -  

Ann: Reiko is the retail arm of Arai,

Junichi Arai was the God of weave designers. Reiko's one of his students and I worked with him. I was his partner in the West.

Oh, carry on.

Reiko: Thank you. Tadaima! (laughs) I'm home. Konnichiwa.

Ann: Konnichiwa.

Reiko: (Japanese greetings).

I just brought little, little things.

 

00:11:41:11 -  

Ann: What are you, what are you bringing? So naughty. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you so much, Reiko-san. Thank you. I have a little thing for you, and I hope it's not too big for your bag. Inside here, shall we get it out?

It's a print that I did in the sixties and the V&A bought one of each of ten prints and made a little exhibition touring everywhere with it. And so I thought, maybe Reiko would like some of these, but you'll have to be careful when you pull it out because the paper in those days in the sixties, it dents.

Reiko: No. no, too much!

Ann: Too much? Too much! Too big? I cut it in half!

Reiko: No, no, no!

Ann: It's a little bit textile.

Reiko:  Beautiful. This is your stocking, from your collection?

Ann: Yeah. Those were my stockings once, yes. I still have them.

Reiko: Unbelievable.

Ann:   I can only give this to anothertextile person can't I ? Because you, you are amazed by the structure.

 

 00:13:03:27

Ann: Now, we must look at the samples. So this is the project.

And that's the new tartan, is it?

Reiko: Yes. This is the new tartan.

Ann: Oh, it's very beautiful. But you're weaving tartan because it's for a railway in Japan?

Reiko: Yes.

Ann: So this is the repeat.

Reiko: They have certain system. So we have to select the color

from their palette.

Ann: It's a new development that they have specific colors?

Good idea.

Reiko  Yeah. Very good idea.

Ann: Because then they will match.

Reiko: That's right. So we had to pick out the color.

Ann: Yeah.

Reiko: To match with their color.

Ann: And you wanted to know good weavers.

Good weavers. It's not easy these days, you know,

because they've all gone. They've gone out of business. I've found somebody who would

hand weave samples of each one.  (Nice) So that the client can have them in his boardroom. It's not cheap, but, you know, it's somebody who will do them beautifully.

And yeah. So, so anyway, I just thought I'd mention that.

Reiko: That would be wonderful.

Ann: As I said that would be woven in Shetland in Scotland, right at the top

where all the looms went to from my foundation here. They all went to Shetland.

Reiko: Really?

Ann: And I'm going to go and see them on the 31st of July.

 

00:14:28:26 -  

Oh, let me show you.

Rieko Yes.

Ann: Two samples.

Reiko: So.  Yes, right.

Ann: The maquette is certain to be strong.

This is made for busses and trains over here.

 

00:14:42:17 - 00:14:45:17

Reiko: So this one uses like a wire?

Ann: Yes, like a velvet, like a velvet.

Reiko  still they’re using?

Ann: And in wool, and in wool. Yeah.

Reiko: Wow! Yeah.

 

00:14:53:04 - 00:14:55:37

Ann: So let's let's go up to the studio and have a look and see what I'm doing at the moment.

Reiko: Wow! I'm so excited!

Ann: It's not weaving, not a loom upstairs.

Reiko :Drawing?

Ann: Sometimes, sometimes weaving, but no looms. There's a mystery for you.

Reiko: (walking upstairs) Mmm,. nice color.

Ann: (laughs)

Ann: Come on in.

Reiko: Wow! Look! Weaving!

Ann: Weaving, weaving, no looms, but

Reiko: weaving.

Ann: Weaving. Yeah.

Reiko: This one.

 

00:15:33:36 - 00:15:36:36

Ann: This is going to have paper clay thrown at it. So that it joins up the two layers- like that

Reiko:. Lots of ideas.

Ann: This is like laboratory. So,  I'm using things that I wove of paper ages ago.

Reiko: Of paper!

Ann: Paper thread. Yeah.

Reiko:  Yeah, yeah,  it's like ah

Reiko: This is for me

(laughter)

00:16:06:40

Ann:  it might break I think.

Ann: This one, I knitted it myself and every evening I was watching television I was knitting and I got repetitive strain injury.

 

00:16:18:00 - 00:16:19:24

Reiko: Oh no!  

Ann: Still, still there.  Yes, still there. And,  but I am so proud, at my age, to be working so hard you get, you hurt your body. I like it. I like it. (laughs)

Ann: And then these , whole design collection here, of all the designs I used to do,

 

00:16:40:22

These were for people like Ralph Lauren and people like that.

Reiko: Ah, beautiful.

Ann: It's a bit like an individual painting, you know, and, and the potential for it in the hands

of the right manufacturers, colossal. Especially as I've done lots that work without rethreading the loom.

 

00:17:01:08 - 00:17:04:08

All these were from when I was doing, doing, um freelance designing and my agent would take 15 to New York, sell three or four and then bring the rest back.

Reiko: Right?

Ann: And often, usually, they didn't buy the best ones. But now I'm going to sell the whole lot.

Reiko: To the museum?

Ann: The V&A is thinking about it at the moment.

Reiko: That'd be wonderful.

Ann: It would be lovely.

 

00:17:34:35 - 00:17:36:04

Reiko: Wow. 12 years ago, I set up a dobby room.

Ann: Yeah, Yeah.

Reiko: When I started to teach because of your book on the Structure of Weaving.

Ann:  Yes. Yes.

Reiko: And we met in Tokyo. (Yes.)

And you, you sent me pierced earrings. I still have it.

Ann :Oh, good. Because I had mine pierced because my husband didn't like,

Reiko (looking): I think the same one.

Ann: He said, he said, I never want you to have your ears pierced because it looks like a gypsy. So when I left him, the first thing I have is,

Reiko: Ah really?

Ann: Yes, very first thing.

Reiko: So you told me like, Reiko, your life will change.

Ann: And it does change, doesn't it?

Reiko: Yes, it does change. It really, really did it. So every day you've been?

Ann: No, two mornings a week I'm up here. All the grey books are ideas books.

Reiko: Wow!

Ann: All of them.

Reiko: May I?

00:18:27:39 - 00:18:30:08

Ann: Yes, I could show you, I'll show you this one. This is the current one.

Reiko:  Oh, yes, yes.

Ann: So you see they're very private notebooks. They're not anything that a lot of people can understand. That's a dream I keep having. Anything can go in these books. You may not talk about it, but anything can go in the books.

 

Music

 

00:19:22:13 - 00:19:23:39

Clifford Charles (artist)

 Hi. Good to see you.

Ann: Oh, good to see you too. I have just discovered a really good course online.

I've just watched the color one this morning. All the stuff I was never taught at art school.

Do you have sugar in your coffee?

Cliff: No, no. Just a bit of milk, actually. Do you have your normal KitKats somewhere around?

Ann: I do. And they're coming out any second.

Cliff: Good. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Thank you. Thank you for helping me. I just needed a moment to, Yeah, yeah. Clear my head and energy, yeah. One for all.

 

00:19:55:39 - 00:19:58:39

Cliff: Wow. Have you been responding to Thandi's haikus?

How's that going? I don't have to see it, but if you want to.  

Ann: No, it's going in that,

Cliff: Wow!

Ann: In that I have now reached April 22nd.

 

Cliff:  Amazing.

Ann: I quite like that drawing. It's not ready to be seen yet.

Cliff: Exactly. No, no but I understand. Yeah.

Ann: I think I ought to be using pen.

I'm not sure, so sure. I don't know. Anyway.

Cliff: I'm like, I still like, well you know me, anything that's smeary. Yeah. I'm into the smear.

Ann: Anything that's smeary? Oh, God, how wonderful to hear something that isn't art speak! (laughs)

Cliff: There's a word I forgot.

 

00:20:41:33 - 00:20:43:33

Okay, It's again, you know craft, I was trying to write down craft.

Ann:  Cunning Rubbish Assembled for Tourists?

 

00:20:47:33 - 00:20:49:28

Cliff: Ow! oh.

Ann: That was thought up by,  by a guy who was...

Cliff:  I have to write that down.

Ann:  The best, the best weaver in Britain. Peter Collingwood. I've kept every letter that

Peter ever wrote to me because they're full of that sort of thing.

In the studio I'm doing, I'm doing these canvas and lightweight fabric and

then we're painting the whole thing white. Once it's finished. I really do think that color

is a distraction.

 

00:21:17:17  

Cliff: I don't, I'm not, I don't really go there. I don't want to look at color.

For me just looking at what is it in black and white or in that relationship What, what is it that takes us mentally to that space?

Ann: Yeah.

Cliff:  And it is all around you by the way.

Ann: It's too hectic. Yes, it's too hectic.

00:21:34:32 - 00:21:37:00

Ann: I mean, I couldn't live, I have to live in a white room. I pass through this room (oh, ok)

and the staircase I pass through, going up to the, up to the..

Cliff:  Is it a necessary rite of passage?

Ann:  Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you look rather good on this staircase!

 

 

Cliff:

00:21:58:03 - 00:21:59:29

I always say she's my only friend.

Really, she is. I've met lots of artists, but I just could not connect with them because their thinking is so, it's part of the learnt experience. And for me, being an artist is about challenging that.

 

00:22:12:00 - 00:22:15:00

And I think the challenge is always about the unknown and we get so comfortable

in the known. The thing about Ann is she's moving all the time and she's constantly,, the momentum is taking her forward.

 

00:22:26:06 - 00:22:28:07

Cliff: Anyway, we'll talk later.  Okay, Great. Great, bye.

Ann: Take care. Did you bring anything? No.

 

00:22:38:12 - 00:22:41:12

Ann in Living room:

I'm off duty when I'm in here and I like to just fill my brain with nothing. And if I had color all round, I'd be still sparking away. And so by doing all white, it just calms down the whole thing. And I love simplicity I don't like showiness.

 

00:23:00:00 - 00:23:01:08

Now I'm very old. I'm allowed to have a comfy chair and watch telly. You know, it's,  it's written in stone. You're allowed to do that. So I do that. And I even sometimes

eat my supper there too. It's slutty. That is sluts corner really.

 

00:23:16:14 - 00:23:18:21

But you see, every afternoon I crash out. I sleep every afternoon. So I'm able to go out,

but I'm too lazy to quite often. And recently I had the idea I ought to try living with my own work. I'd never done it before. I'd never hung my own work. I'd always had art I bought.

 

I did that in 2004. I had a show in a lovely little gallery in Marylebone called Patrick Heide, and his whole gallery was me. And it sort of launched me away from weaving into drawing and painting.

 

00:23:50:06 - 00:23:53:27

I mean, that I class as a drawing, because what I'm saying is there's the two dimensional frame at the back. And then on top is a three dimensional cage-like frame, which is almost like a battered frame. The gray one with the, it's not wire, it's plastic because wire would squash. And these are my lines of drawing coming out into space. As you walk past,

you see different images. So I'm using the, the viewer to get the image. And so I don't get fed up with that because every time I look at it, and I once saw Homer Simpson in one of them, can't see him again, but he was there.

 

00:24:31:39 - 00:24:34:33

And then the one to the left, the knotted clothes line, plastic clothes line,

I could happily do today. And I did that in 1969. And it's so true of what I do today.

So I've come full circle and I'm quite shocked at that. And then when I find an old piece like that, it's amazing.

 

00:24:52:11 - 00:24:54:08

I got rid of my looms like that. Just sold everything. The weaving world was shocked.

I don't know why, but I thought you, just see. But more recently I've gone back into woven structures. I avoided them like mad for a while. But when I had,

00:25:11:27 - 00:25:15:41

when I'd sort of recovered from the weaving, non-weaving shock, I thought, I'm grown up enough now to bring it back in.

 

00:25:19:37 - 00:25:23:10

So I'm working a lot with the woven structure, which I just adore. I mean, that structure, (shows with hands) whoa! That structure is so amazing and strong. It makes a strong substance out of nothing.

 

In office talking to archivist Rebecca Sier:

00:25:33:05 - 00:25:36:31 Rebecca: Yes, and then we're talking about the back covers that you were doing. Well, these were sold to Harrods.

 

Ann:

It's awful having to look back on old work. I hate looking back on old work.

 

Rebecca:

You like looking forward?

Ann:

I hate looking. Yeah. I like looking forward. That's why it's not

been done until now. But thank God I've saved all the photographs.

Rebecca:

Yes. You've got quite a thorough record of you know, all the works.

And now going through this folder, you've also got, you know events as well as things started to happen for you.

 

00:26:04:16 - 00:26:06:00

Ann: If you haven't had your work photographed, you might as well not have made it.

It was a love seat and Liberty's commissioned it.

Rebecca: Yeah, that's right

Ann: There it was waiting for Liberty's to come and pack it and take it and I hadn't even realized you should photograph it.

Rebecca: Yes

Ann: And it was a major piece, one of my major pieces I've ever done and so I got my little camera out and took a photograph of it

Rebecca: For me, it's fascinating to go through the work and see, you know, the bristle box,

for example.

Ann:  Oh, the bristle box.

 00:26:40:18

Oh, look, we can find it. Look, look, look, the system works. Oh, God.

Rebecca:

You asked for it!

Ann: Yeah, I know.

There I am, in my hippy stage. I had an exhibition. The maquette was very interesting.

It was to do with weave and I put a number system on all four sides of a cube

and then threaded the nylon through from number and rotated it

like a magic square. And then I rotated it. And the, so the threads used to go in on six layers.

A number one on the bottom, on the bottom left say would go across to where number

one was opposite, on the opposite side. So it made six weaves which had never been seen before and all logical weaves to do with a number system.

Rebecca: Yeah.

Ann: And then,

Rebecca: You use number systems quite a lot.

Ann: Yeah, I did.

 

00:27:34:26 - 00:27:37:09

Ann: I used to beat myself up about using number systems. Yeah. Anyway, I put it in for an exhibition. The V&A I sent three of their curators to come and see it. It was priced at £25,

which I was desperate for.

 

Rebecca: What, as the maquette size?

Ann: Yes, the maquette. And they, they looked at it, spent the whole morning discussing it,

and I was in the corner of the exhibition trying not to hear what they were saying.

Trying not to look interested.

Rebecca: Yeah, just not look interested.

Ann: And then they said, we're terribly sorry, we've decided we can't buy it,

Um, I don't know what their salaries were for that morning the three of them, you know,

but it was more than £25, because it isn't a textile. And so I said, Oh, thank you for looking at it. And I said, you know, in fact, it is the most interesting textile ever created, you know,

Because it's got these new weaves.

Ruth: And the fact that it's in a Perspex box they couldn't,

Ann: they couldn't get past that.

 

00:28:32:25 - 00:28:36:33

And so, on the way out of the show, I saw a poster saying

'Maquettes wanted for Arts Council sculpture competition and the prize was to have

it made up full size. And so I put it in, I thought, well, if it isn't a textile, maybe it's a maquette. And I put it in as a maquette and won! I couldn't believe it.

 

00:28:54:40 - 00:28:55:16

Rebecca: Destined to be wasn't it?.

Ann: Yeah.

Rebecca: So this that's, that's how it looked at the end.

Ann: Yes.

Rebecca: I've got them all there.

Ann: Yeah. Delivering, deciding how to.. Wynn's

Wynn's were the big..

Rebecca: That's you in the background.

Ann: Yeah.

Rebecca: Dressed in white trousers. Which is always good for Wales, windy Wales.

Ann: Yeah. (laughs) Oh God. Takes me back. Yeah. Right.

 00:29:19:16

Ann: So now we're going to do some slides. I dread doing those slides.

Rebecca: I know. I think I'm going to have to bully you a bit. I think I can see you're slowing

down on the slides. It's not your fun job, is it?

Ann: No. The V&A visit was fabulous. It's quite interesting because the Tate are coming with fine art in mind and the V&A coming with design in mind and a bit of craft. So I've got to remember who I'm talking to.

 

Ann in studio with Ruth:

00:29:49:18 - 00:29:50:11

That's another,

Ruth: Oh, lovely, Thank you.

Ann: Ball of stuff. You should have enough of that now to finish that and hopefully,

Ruth: yeah,

 

Ann: It's really difficult for Ruth because everything we start is a different technique with its own problems.

00:30:03:02 - 00:30:07:01

You know, we can't go to Google and find out how the best way to do it but we both enjoy that

00:30:10:33 - 00:30:13:33

I think, don't we?

Ruth: Absolutely.

Ann: Ready for our staff wine gums?

It's our little addiction.

Ruth:  Thank you.  Do you watch Strictly Come Dancing?

Ann: Not at all. I hate Strictly Come Dancing.

I've got medals for ballroom dancing.

Ruth: Oh, I haven't, no!

Ann: I took it so seriously, I've got medals for ballroom dancing.

Ruth: Oh my goodness, no.

Ann: And the first money I ever earned was by demonstrating ballroom dancing. (Wow!)

So I should love Strictly, but it's nothing to do with dancing anymore. It's, It's all, costumes and, it's all, what's that word, beginning with a B, burlesque, and oh, it's nothing to do with dancing.

 

00:31:11:16 - 00:31:11:33

Ann: I love a lovely, sweeping foxtrot or quickstep. Oh, God. I could do all those twinkly bits, you know,

00:31:20:27 - 00:31:22:41

It's probably about the one thing I really miss getting old is stepping out on the floor. Aaw!

 

00:31:27:00 – 31:29:00

Music

 

00:31:35:00 - 00:31:35:20

Ann: I read that. Think of me in the morning sitting outside the pub under an umbrella which is what we do any nice Saturday morning. I've only given you a taster of what you're going to see.

 

Gill Hedley, Curator

Hee, hee! That's why I'm racing ahead.

Ann: These are the two pieces,

Gill: That are new?

Ann: That are very brand new.

Gill :Right. 

Ann: And then the other one (this?)  is exactly the same,

Gill: Yep,

Ann: quantity of fabric put down, but with its corners put down first.

Gill: Yeah.

Ann: And then the rest finding its own space.

Gill: And scrunched.

Ann: These are the next stage on from these ones.

The one behind me on the wall, which you saw a photograph of, I think?

Gill: I did, yes you sent me that.

Ann: And then these. You see that?

Gill: No, I do see.

Ann: They're all woven.

Gill:I completely misunderstood from a distance what I was looking at.

Ann: These are recent.

Gill: Recent as in, in your terms, that's always very recent.

Ann: Well, this morning I put, I put these around just to get rid

of how it's made.

Gill Yes. The difference is extraordinary when you change your own level, isn't it?

Ann: And I'm just entranced with these knots that we regard as just rubbish.

And there they are making their own little marks.

Gill: And what it reminds me of exactly is coming down here, all that time ago.

Ann: Oh, with the three-dimensional drawings.

Gill:  Yes, yes, yes. Chattering away.

Ann: Yes. We're at it all the time.

Gill: I know.

Ann: And I'm still going back to this. You see. These are pieces I wove. And now I'm loving those again.

Gill: You came across it and decided you loved it, or you sought it out

because you remember doing something that..?

Ann: I put them on one side and I don't know, I think it was when I was trying to give up weaving.

Gill: Yeah, I remember that.

Yes, yes.

Ann: Yeah.

Gill: Didn't work that it?

Ann: Didn't work. I realize it's my bones, my bones are woven.

Gill: Now, what's happened with the color here? I've never seen anything like this

in your studio.

Ann: No you haven't.

 

00:33:48:40 - 00:33:52:03

Ann: What's happened there is that I needed a material with which to work that wasn't

yarn. And I needed to be strong, I needed to be versatile and extremely cheap.

Gill: Right and some squares would be nice.

Ann: And on eBay, they were advertising all this redundant gift wrap.

Gill: Right! Oh, I see what you mean.

Ann: Gift wrap in whatever color you like. Strong as anything. Nylon. Horrible, a horrible gleam to it. But that's easily conquered with paint. Takes paint like a dream

Can fix it in any way, can sew it, pleat it. So it set me off on a whole new thing.

Gill: Of course 00:34:34:00 - 00:34:35:22

and my, ah, the thing that you hate, my absolute instinct

as a curator is thinking what the hell would you put on a label?

 

Ann:  Nylon, It's nylon. But you see, I'm doing other work, with it. With it over here.

Gill:  I see!

Ann: What I'm intending to do, but Ruth got a bit carried away, I'm intending,

Gill: that doesn't sound like our Ruth

Ann:  no, I'm intending to do this with quite subdued colors.

Gill: Okay. I see what you mean about her getting carried away.

Ann: Ruth loves this bright colours, bless her.

Gill: Yes.

Ann: So I just said, whatever colors you like, we're doing a trial. I think it would be much better when it gets a bit more muted.

 

Gill: What on earth have we got here?

Ann: You can lift it.

Gill: Oh, God, it's delicious.

Ann:  Can't eat it.

Gill: It smells like tar.

Ann: I thought it would be wonderful to work with.

Gill:  Yeah,

Ann: Rubberized paint.

Gill: Right.

Ann:  Meant for gutters and things.

Gill Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Ann: And I thought, I'm just going to work with this.

Gill: Fantastic.

Ann: I did this much. We had to evacuate the studio. We had to throw open all the windows.

It was revolting.

I think you've seen..

Gill: This color's. Intriguing me. I just never thought I would walk in and see.

Ann: It's not me at all.

Gill: It's not!

Ann: Well, I didn't. I just chose any colors for that, I just wanted to see..

Gill: Well you got them bloody right, didn't you? As ever.

Ann: You reckon?

Gill:  Oh, yeah, yeah,

Ann: I'm not sure it all.

Gill:  I'm not sure it works. But what I mean is the color is so elegant, as a range of colors.

Ann: Okay?

Gill: And even when you're, you know, you can't help it.

Ann: When it crosses, it's nice when it crosses.

Gill: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You are infallible. Even though it's not your,

that's not you.

Ann: You're my favourite curator

(laughter)

Gill: you know I have to work at it Ann, I know, by saying the right things!

So why not so many drawings?

Ann: Just haven't been drawing.

Gill: You just haven't been drawing.

Ann: I've just been making. I always reckon

00:36:28:11 - 00:36:31:11

I can do drawing later on when I'm, when I'm lame or bedridden

Gill: or on a boat up to Shetland?

Ann: On a boat up to Shetland, yes indeed.

Gill: The Southampton to Shetland series.

Ann Let's hope it's nice and shaky that ship. Otherwise I can't draw a straight line.

 

Arriving Shetland:

 

36.45 Ship fog horn sounds

37:00 at sea, seagulls

37’04  - 37’10 music playing (fiddle)

37’12 – 37’14 cheers from performers

 

00:37:16:16 - 00:37:18:02

Ann: I don't believe it! And Maggie, Wonderful.  Oh, great to see you.

Mwah, Mwah (kisses)

Andrew Harrison,  Director, Global Yell, Shetland (weaving studio)

Great to see you too.

Ann: Oh, aw, Hello.

Andy Ross – Director, Global Yell, Shetland 

Hello.  Welcome. Hello.

Ann:  This is lovely!

00:37:42:25 - 00:38:09:31

Ann: We took a cruise specifically because it called at Shetland,

and then it didn't call on the way in. Went to Orkney! Went to Orkney.

A very nice head waiter type said, 'please take my arm, I'll take you to the table.' So I took his arm and I said, 'Is this any extra?' because everything's extra,

And he said, 'Madam, this is Cunard. Everything's extra!' (laughs)

00:38:13:01 - 00:38:14:33

Andy: Shame we couldn't get up you up to the studio. The studio's looking really good, really lovely

Music

00:38:20:07 - 00:38:49:42

Andrew Yes, She's a great friend. But she's also a great mentor, isn't she?

Andy: Yes.

Andrew: The first time I wove some scarves, I was extremely proud just because they were sort of rectangular. But she sent this fantastic mail saying, you know, fantastic achievement

to make these scarves, but your tassels are a bit on the wild side. Then followed by

three pages, A4 pages, of instructions on how to do it properly which was all meant

in the best possible helpful mode, but it was very Ann, wasn't it?

 

00:38:50:00 - 00:38:52:41

Andy: Very Ann. she's also very good at if I have a problem or if I need some sort of advice,

I can phone her up and just speak to her and ask her. And she always knows, she always knows something or someone who can help. Without Ann I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing because we, we got the foundation from the Ann Sutton Foundation, she had a hunch that we would do something interesting with it.

 

00:39:13:05 - 00:39:43:18

People come into the studio and say, Oh, we heard you had Ann Sutton Foundation.

We were shocked when that happened because we knew nothing about weaving at all.

People were quite horrified that it had come this far north to this remote, isolated,

rural island of Yell in the middle of the North Sea, where there were no trained weavers

that could actually use the equipment. Because what we've done with the foundation is we made it carry on doing

what it was meant to do, and that was to encourage and support and help.

 

 

Andrew:

00:39:43:19 - 00:40:05:00

So when we acquired the foundation, we didn't know what we were going to get.

We realized we'd got the foundation lock, stock and barrel, everything from the teaspoons to the coffee cups all the way to, you know, five really amazing looms, including Ann Sutton's own handloom. It was like opening an IKEA pack and saying, here's the world's best weaving studio, go forth and do something with it.

 

Andy: And she then continued to support what we were doing. So she designed the blanket

for us, for example, to make. She's been very, very supportive. And our use of the loom,

the new loom that we have, the industrial loom, is very much in keeping with what she was trying to do, trying to make people understand that actually

 

00:40:25:14 - - 00:40:32:34

you shouldn't be too restrictive in your thinking. You should be doing

interesting things and being curious about the world

 

00:40:33:34 - 00:40:36:13

and being an interesting, innovative weaver. And if you're not doing that,

then why are you weaving at all? Why are you an artist at all?

 

40:46 – 40: 59 music and ticking noise, sea soundscape

41:01 – 41’08 looms sound and music

 

Entering the Victoria Institute, Arundel

 

00:41:16:04 - 00:41:20:12

Ann: Good to see you.

Annice Rowswell, Friend: Long time no see.I hear you've been on the high seas.

Ann: I have. Yes.

Annice: Good time?

Ann: It was alright, up to Iceland. Yeah, but cruises are horrible. I mean, I'm used to going on

freighters, you see? (Yes.) And that was wonderful.

Annice: Absolutely, only a small group of people too

Ann:  Yes. But once you get to 80 they won't have you.

Richard Howells, Cousin : Onward.

Ann: Yeah, onward.

(general noise)  See you there, okay. Yeah.

 

Ann: Huge paper.

Richards: Yeah. Do you know him?

Ann: I used to know him, yeah. They're just so mighty, aren't they?

Real - choo,choo!

 

Anthony Frost,  Artist : Ms Sutton!

Ann: Good God! Hello sweetheart. Mwah, Mwah!

Anthony: Oh, lovely to see you. All right. Oh, sorry.

Richard: That's alright, keep it on.

Anthony: Oh, that's lovely, isn't it?

Ann: The wonderful Anthony Frost, the wonderful Anthony Frost

Anthony: Ooh! oh yeah! the wonderful Anthony Frost It's all making sense now. Cut!

 

Richard: How are you?

Anthony: Ok, yeah, yeah fine. Oh, so every time I have a show here, which is about every two years, we meet Ann, which is fantastic.

She was my tutor all those years ago in the, gosh, early seventies. Well, late sixties.

I was in a sort of a special position in the sense of I went to art school,

but one of the tutors was my, my Dad's mate, you know, I mean when Dad moved back to Banbury, you know, suddenly we met a lot of people. We met Ann and her husband John Makepeace and they had this wonderful modern house outside Banbury that no one

had seen a house like it before. Ann was fantastic because she did, like I say, this creative studies course. I mean, we did life drawing you know, and still life and all that sort thing. But when we went to Ann she had this big weaving project, which she did the biggest weave across country where human people were the, we were the knitting needles.

I think it was the whole foundation. We all had to go out to her place. And I remember we were all in some of those black plastic macs that everyone was wearing in those days,

and we all had to stand in a field as giant wool was weaved between us sort of thing.

And that was all Ann. So it was all crazy, crazy stuff. But very, very exciting.

00:43:43:01

 

00:43:43:23 - 00:43:44:25

Ann: Thank you.

Richard: Hello Johnny I snuck in the other day to have a great chat with James.

It's really good.

Ann: Yes, isn't it? God! You see, I mean, this is just wonderful.

It's not minding what it says is it?

The staircase is made for me. I love it. It's perfect. I want it at home.

Johnny Stuart, art gallery owner: This is perfect.

 

In the garden of Zimmer gallery:

Ann: When I was doing the TV series in 1980.

Anthony: Yeah. Oh, the.

Ann: Yeah, the weaving one. Very first day. The producer was awful. God, was she Director? I don't know what she was. She left the studio and I said to the, to the floor manager,

00:44:23:16 - 00:44:25:39

Have I got to work with that fucking woman, all this time?

 

00:44:25:39 - 00:44:28:39

Ann: And he said.....(Ann shakes head with mouth closed)

And she heard it, and I had to work with her for..

Richard: Did she say anything?

Ann: for about four months.

Anthony: Yeah. She made you do an extra month!

(laughter)

00:44:36:33 - 00:44:38:27

Oh, God.

 

00:44:38:27 -

Ann: You didn't hear what I said about your stuff when I came through the show just now?

Anthony: No, No, I didn't. I wasn't there.

Ann: No, I said, Oh, my God. It's so good to see some work that's. that's, that's.

that's rude.

Anthony:  Rude. I like that.

Ann: Saying rude things without caring.

Anthony:  Like I've said it. It's all come from that. It was jammed. The studio's jammed, you know. So. I had to hang them all on the wall. Yeah. And so it was so nice to come here

and see them clean and sharp.

Ann: Mmmm.

Anthony:  Is there something happening?

Ann: Well, did you hear about the Tate?

Anthony: Well, this is what I've heard something.

Ann: Tate Modern came down to see me.

Anthony: Yes, that's what I've heard.

Ann: Yeah. The best curator I think, came down to see me.

Anthony: Who's that? 

Ann: That's the woman who did the Anni Albers show. And she got hooked into weaving.

She said it's so deep. The subject is so deep. And she said, but they're all doing it on a crafty way. But she said, My God, she said, This is the best day in my life.

 

00:45:29:32 - 00:45:30:18

Anthony: Right, fantastic.

Ann:  Which was wonderful. Fantastic. Lovely lady.

Anthony:  So are they purchasing something?

Ann: She said, can I send someone down who's responsible for buying?

Anthony: Yeah.

Ann: But she said, then we'll start planning.

 

Ann:  As long as it's got those four letters In front of it.

Anthony: Yes, exactly. But that is quite true.

Ann: I should have gone before it happens because it's happens so slowly.

Anthony: Is it a slow process? Is it.

Ann: Yeah, she said it's so slow, but she said I'm motivated and I shall get this through.

Anthony: Yeah. So that's what's her name?

Ann: Ann Coxon.

Anthony: Right.

Background: Cheers! Looking forward to working for this.

 

46’01 - 46’14 Dinner chatter and music

Bird chirp, music ends

 

Inside Ann’s house:

Ann: 00:46:34:14 -

I'm down there, miles away and so if anyone is staying here they can get out and play television, go to the bathroom, whatever. Don't disturb me, which is lovely.

I love buying other people's work, but I don't want to live in a cluttered interior.

And so I've put it up here. That's all, Hazel Evans, who used to live in, in um

King's Arms Hill, And they're all references to famous paintings, with a twist.

 

00:47:06:16

Oh, this is me. I designed it for selling to the States. They love patchwork.

And the interesting thing is that these which you would think would be all the same

color, are all different. And so I wove it in the Welsh tradition for a Welsh mill to make.

 

00:47:23:15 -  

Oh, that's me. That's me. I was in the Potteries I remember my mother saying

this semi-professional photographer came and said, Can I just put a sun bonnet on Ann,

and I want her in the garden, photographing her in the garden.

I was quite a nervous child. So I'm amazed I had the confidence to do it.

 

00:47:40:16

Everyone loved my father. He was very straight and decent to deal with.

He was a printer and he managed a big printing works. He was very good with people.

My mum was a very good mum. She died when I was 21. She was the youngest of three daughters. And my grandmother ran this enormous workshop in the rooms at the top of her house. It was for bespoke dressmaking and my mother hated it so she never picked up a

needle again in her life.

 

00:48:11:09  

And then these are, these are all lovers. Lovers who happened to paint (laughs)

And, um, these are neighbors. This is my lovely neighbor. That's inside the house

next door that I showed. And these are all the little bits of fabric.

I mean extraordinary.

 

00:48:31:32  

It's nice for guests to have something to look at, but I prefer a few bare walls around.

 

In Studio:

00:48:41:07  

Ruth: A pot to mix it upon. Now I want a brush.

It's supposed to look like gaps when you hang it up against a black wall or something. it looks like there's nothing there.

That's her sort of, how she gets her sort of, paint in space.

I look forward to Mondays and Fridays. I feel privileged because people have paid

to visit her, and paid to be taught by her and there I am, I'm getting paid to work

with her, be a gofer, you know. It's lovely.

Yeah. Yeah.( Laughs) And it's fun.I never know,always knowquite what I'm going to do

or if I think I know what I'm going to do, when I come and it's totally different

because she's thought of another idea and the last idea's old hat so we're going to do

something else now.

 

00:49:45:30

Some sessions. We work almost in silence and I know if she's concentrating. I know now not to disturb her. Another time we'll be chatting and laughing and she'll be telling me all about the things she's done in the past and what she got up to. And I think she's had a quite a wild life before at times and yeah, we have great fun.

 

00:50:13:13  

I was very proud when we went to, I think it was Winchester one we went to. She had to give a talk and she actually stood up and did her talk on everything, and then she actually mentioned me to say, you know, I can't do this, a lot of these jobs without Ruth nowadays. And I thought, Oh, that was so nice. She didn't, she didn't have to mention me. No, I'm only an employee. She didn't have to mention me at all. But she did and spoke very kindly about me and I was, yeah, really touched.

 

00:50:49:13  

I think she's secretly getting excited. If the Tate Gallery comes up. You can tell her age now

that would be the icing on the cake, really. To be you that well known and to have a show in the Tate. I know underneath she's really quite secretly quite excited. So I hope for her,

while she's got the energy, she'd never stop having the ideas, that it will be fulfilled.

Mmm. If that's one wish I could do for her. Yes. Get in the Tate, because that's

every artist's main dream in the end isn't it? To get into one of the main

national galleries.

 

00:51:33:14 -  

Ruth: Hello.

Ann: Hello, hello.

(they ass wine gums and chew.)

 

00:51:47:28  

Ann: Oh. That's green and blue.

 

Ruth:  That's annoying it's on there. Mmm. I don't like that on there

Ann:  It would be a lot better, Ruth, if we got on better, wouldn't it?

Ruth: Ah! Well we just don't get on really at all!

Ann:  Not at all.

Ruth: Argue all the time and oh..

Ann: We put it all on for the camera.

 

00:52:29:22 - 00:52:30:00

Ruth: Yeah! (chuckles)

 

Sounds of paint pot opening and scraping paint on board.

 

Ruth: You did want these ribbons woven, didn't you?

Ann: Oh, yes, that's fine. Yeah.

Ruth: Yes. So I've pinned at the top. Yes.

Ann: Yeah. Ruth: One so you can just get enough

Ann: Yeah, that's just fine.

Ruth: Yeah?

Ann: Yup

Ruth: You sure that's enough twist per.. because this one is spread.

You got, you've got a twist there

 

00:53:18:25

If I were you, I would put a pin right through the joins and then they won't go

into the next twist until the next one.

Ruth: Ok, righty-ho.

Ann: See what I mean. 

Ann: Get your twist and then put a pin straight through.

Okay. That's fine. But whether you can get that in the four inches, I don't know.

Ruth: No, Mmm.

Ann: Have a go.

 

Pins picked up. Scarping of paint on board.

00:53:52:33 -  

Ann: That's the joy about doing something. Especially something that's a little bit repetitive like this. You can just lose yourself and think about other things. I mean, I was just thinking

about paint just now, and um, you know, looking at a pot of paint and it is but color wrapped into a substance. And if you can think of it that way, it's a lot less terrifying. And the color

must predominate, but the substance is there. The substance changes with the,

with whatever it's mixed with. I've said that wrong really But the color, I hope, can be sort of isolated from the substance. I think that's what I'm trying to do and it's impossible.

So I quite like impossible things.

 

00:55:12:41  

Painters are very, very envious of weavers because they say when we pick up

a cone of color, it's exactly the same color all the way through. And often these cones

go on for years, as you know, in the cupboard. Whereas they say if we try and mix ours again, it's never the same. I haven't worked it out yet. As you can see.

 

00:55:39:38 -  

Ann: I mean, what's the point of doing something if you know exactly what I mean, when I was doing things to do with numbers, everyone says, well, if you're a mathematician,

you would know what was happening. Then I wouldn't need to make it you see.

It's the combination of making and making and thinking. and seeing it when it's done

that's so good. But the problem with weaving, it's such a, it's such a joyous business

to actually do. I mean, to sit and weave all morning, it's just wonderful. It doesn't really matter what you're weaving, just the physical thing of building something that's useful

from something that's useless - the yarn is useless - and you're building it and the action is just magic and most weavers stop there. They get just hooked by the action, they don't care what they're weaving. Well, this is like working with colored slugs really.

 

56’50 – outside the pub. Birds singing

Group doing crossword

 

00:56:57:27 -

Chris Mitton, artist and friend: Number five, which Shakespeare play is set in the 11th century?

Ann: Is that um... that's not Troilus and Cressida?

Chris: Titus Andronicus, is it?

Woman: That's what I was thinking

Ann: Troilus and Cressida, Titus Andronica. Any other Shakespeare plays, folks?

Woman:  King Lear. Midsummer Night's Dream.

Ann: King Lear? Could be.

 

00:57:17:40 -

Chris: So how did it, how did it come about that she

Ann: It came about because she'd seen my work at Roche Court.

Chris: Right.

Ann: She'd been to see some of my students because of the Anni Albers show

that she'd curated. They all kept talking about me.

So she came.

Chris:  That's amazing.

Ann:  I know. It's wildest dream.

Chris: I'm so pleased, because it's you know, because you're always working, you're always,

creating new work and it's nice to, to have, have that recognized.

 

Ann:

Well, I mean, when I'm doing it I'm not doing it for anything. I'm just doing it because I must.

Chris:  Yeah. That's why I think any true artist does it because they must, they don't have any choice.

Ann:  It doesn't sell, you know,

Except now! (laughs)

 

Opening box in studio

00:58:14:38 -  

Tate Britain and Tate Modern are coming down in a week's time. I've got to dust off my brain

for another, for a whole different approach, a whole different approach

Because they're fine art, industrial design, and you've got fine art. And in the middle is craft.

And I've always gone from one end to the other, and my industrial design has been affected by the fine art approach and vice versa. And I've only just worked that out.

 

00:58:42:33

I'm more thrilled than I can tell you. I wake up in the morning and think, did I just dream that? Did I dream that? If so it was a jolly nice dream. And I realise I didn't just dream it.

 

00:58:55:33  

Ruth: This one is Spectrum Chequer 1. It is signed. And it's '83.

 

Ann: Documenting has suddenly become important to me, Probably because I can see the end of my life and I don't, I don't want to have to do it any later, shall we say, because it's a pig of a job, but it's got to be done. And I feel better, and everyone feels better and we all know what we're doing.

 

00:59:26:29  

Ruth: This has a printed Ann Sutton label on this piece.

Ann: Oh right. That counts as signing  (There?)  Yeah.

Ruth: I say no date.

Ann: Ooh and it's put on with poppers. Oh gosh that was nice.

I think. I think, um

Ruth: Color mood. No.

Ann: No. One's called Neptune. The other's called Venus.

Ruth: Ok!

Ann:  Didn't you recognize this?

Ruth:  Of course. We need to write on the back then which one's which.

(laughs)

Ann: it's going to help tremendously. Any curator can now go in my storeroom

and they can just go and look at work from the fifties, work from the sixties, seventies, etc.

right up to now - and the future.

I'm not stopping. I don't want to stop. Please! (laughs)

 

Seagulls/birds – Arundel empty streets

 01:00:25:03

Ann: I can't work out where the camera is but it's not framed very well. Right. I'm fine. I'm just fine. And I'm loving, I'm loving being locked in Doesn't that sound dreadful?

So many people are hating it and I'm absolutely adoring it. I loved it when Ruth came in.

We did quite different work together, which I can't continue without her really.

But she is completely wrapped up with so many grandchildren now that schools are not open. And one day, even if we have to dig a tunnel between her house

and my studio, we'll get in there.

 

01:01:03:16  

I take my saucepan to my sitting room window. And I have great delight

in bashing it for the splendid NHS people who are batting on. And then I have an arrangement that I make a date with my neighbor opposite Janey, usually in her pyjama bottoms with a glass in her hand, and we raise a glass and we have a private chat - listened into by the whole of Arundel I should think -  across the street.

ANN: (out of window)

And then I get tired and make a mistake, you know.

 

01:01:38:33

Ann: on Zoom: What am I busy doing? I'm photographing tiny things like this, like little miniatures, and I must have a record of them. It's ridiculous not to. I started up the international exhibitions of miniature textiles in the late seventies and they've been going until recently all over the world. In fact, they're still going.

 

01:02:10:16  

Boris is now allowing us to have a bubble, and I can have a bubble with my cousin and his wife who live around the corner, Richard and Sarah. We had the first bubble meeting yesterday. It felt very strange when they were allowed to come into my flat and it was such a normal thing to do and it felt so strange.

 

01:02:32:25  

Richard: Every time I go round, there's something new, some idea in some stage of making,

of developing, of finishing, framing, and all the rest of it and with the Tate getting on board, together with Roche Court, there's been this added excitement.

 

01:02:49:41  

Ruth in studio:

Whoops! have a bit of sunshine in here. That's it then we have light! Fantastic.

Tate are coming to take four pieces of Ann's work away, but they are going to come and pack it professionally so um, it's just a work area for them to work on.

Right. That's the four pieces I've got to collect and I think that one is downstairs in the living room. So we've got to bring those ones up and I think these two are in the store cupboard. So I've got to hunt for but they are dated 1965 so they should be quite easy to find in there. If I've done the storage room correctly.

 

01:03:36:00  

Ruth: Good morning Ann.

Hello! It's so good to see you.

Ruth:  And I'm so pleased you're still slaving away.

Ann: Oh yes!

Ruth: (laughs) Right.

Treat this with care because it's quite a few years old and it may be brittle. It feels like I'm carrying some golden chalice, you know! (laughs) Or sacred bottle of wine.

 

01:04:00:40  

I mean, this is the first time I've been in her apartment for well, probably for a year nearly.

But no, I miss it. It's strange. It is my, you know, my weekly thing to come in here,

and it looks like she's got loads of ideas still in her books.

 

01:04:28:04  

it's called 'Spiral Color and Area Progression.'

Now that one is interesting because it is made from cow hair, so you don't often see cow hair used, but. So that is all four pieces laid out ready for the Tate on Monday.

 

Ruth: Outside

01:04:57:07  

I will welcome you to Arundel. I'm Ruth Ann's studio manager

I'm Dave, Ruth, nice to meet you.

 

Music over packing noises

 

Ruth at her house: packing

01:05:43:39  

We've decided, at my time in life now  - I'll be 70 next year, it's about time

I gave up the working boots and we bought a little house in Cornwall.

So it's goodbye to everybody and massive clear up in this lovely place in Arundel

which I love to pieces. But it's time to move on. It's the next new, exciting chapter in my life while I've still got a bit of energy left.

(aside)

So she's got prospects.

 

01:06:15:31  

I shall be going to see Ann for the last time, um, which is a bit sad. But give her her key back and I shall miss her. You don't always realise Until it's uh, hits you, but, no, she's got her life and I've got mine. and yes, but I will miss her.

 

01:06:54:22  

Ruth: Hello Ann!

Ann: Hello, Hello.

Ruth: Have you increased the steps? They feel like,

Ann: Yup, I added a few steps because I knew you were coming this morning

Ruth: Aw! So on the Tate and the V&A, that's all going well?

Ann: It's all going well. I had a 45 minute call with the V&A yesterday and we're sort of moving things in the right direction.

 

Ruth:  Fantastic. Let me have a look at that canvas quickly. It's a bit lumpy, bumpy from the

Ann: Yeah, but by the time I've worked on, nearly all over it.

Ruth: Right.

Ann: It'll be fine. You know.

Ruth:  Shall I leave the masking tape on 'til you've finished.

Ann: Well, I think well, it's alright I'll take it off Ruth. You've, you've stopped working here

don't forget.

Ruth:  (laughs) I see so many jobs. Oh, dear oh me. Ah, bless. Right. Well, if it's nothing

you want me to do on that canvas?

Ann: No.

Ruth:  I will depart and go back to my um, floor scrubbing before I crack up. I will, I will phone you every week anyway to find out what's going on.

Ann: Whoah!

Ruth: All right? I'll be one of your nuisance callers every week, (yes)

and find out what's going on.

Ann: That sounds very good to me. Things will work out.

Ruth: Yup, it will all fall into place Ann.

Ann: Yeah. Yup.

Ruth: There's the keys my lovely. I shall now go back, and..

Ann: Thank you sweetheart.

Ruth: and finish scrubbing floors. Blows kiss.

It's been smashing.

Ann: (blows kiss back).

Ruth: Okay.

 

01:08:28:23 -  

Ann: I'm not replacing Ruth a, because she's impossible to replace exactly. I'm just hoping that something serendipitous happens.

(Sound of iron on foil)

I'm wondering whether I can manage without. And the answer is probably not, because physically I'm getting worse every day and um, I have to gear things up so that I can continue working really. So that's on my mind at the moment and um, something will happen. It always does with me. I'm the luckiest person on this planet.

 

01:09:20:16 -

Ann: Let's see what's happened now.

Sound of foil being pulled back

Oh, that's much better. Much better. I was pushing it just a bit beyond where it wanted to go   with not putting any weft in.

 

01:09:41:24

What am I going to do with the money from the Tate? I'm going to use it in a very, very appropriate but boring way. I've got to get up to the studio. and at the moment, the stairs are getting increasingly difficult. So a stairlift, and I've found one that I can have in scarlet.

So.no pale beiges or dusky pinks for me, a scarlet stairlift looking a piece of sculpture.

 

01:10:10:09  

This is very recent. I suddenly wondered what would happen if I took a strip of canvas which tapered. started off about three inches wide. Then it tapered down a length of 15 and a half feet, which I had to work out very carefully, down to about quarter of an inch. And so

we cut those and I started winding two at a time, one way, one way. one way, one way.

I love the way that they formed, they made a shape, in by sticking to the rules that I set.

I want to know what bit of my non-mathematical brain was able to work out that it was exactly 15 feet - plus a few inches. Exactly.

It's got this amazing organic sort of wrap and shape and both sides. I don't know this shape at all it’s a whole new shape to me.

This piece, I think, is one of the most successful I've ever done in my life. So I made three of them.

This is probably not the finished piece. Now I know what it will do and it won't do.

I can work within those parameters and get something happening that is a little bit more me. You have to create the piece

01:11:39:00

because the solution is a combination of what the materials do and what the systems do, together, and sometimes they work wonderfully and they ring bells and that's what I live for.

 

Music

 

01:12:04:16  

Ann: Me, me, me, me, me, me.

I'm not doing this. You're doing this because you've got the voice

 

01:12:08:29 - 01:12:10:14

Will Hall, Musician: That;s a C, and just just play around?

Ann: Just play around a bit.

Will: Yeah. Okay. So I’ve got the…

 (music/singing notes)

Ann: Can you project it so that it's..

Will A bit louder?

Ann: Yeah. Louder voice, yeah.

Will: Yeah. That kind of thing? Yeah, sure.

Ann: Yeah. So they both come through equally.

(music sounds and singing)

Ann: Smashing!

Will: More? More?

Ann: Smashing, smashing. Just smashing. Hah, hey, hey, hey, hey. This Is fun. Next one!

 

Ends: 01:13:11:12