WEBVTT

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[MUSIC]

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All of Dave\'s old meds.

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As soon as he said he was suicidal, we took him
to the hospital and put them all in there.

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If he really wanted to commit suicide,
there was nothing I could do about it,

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but I wasn\'t going to make it easy.

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This all started off
with a bad relationship

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and some test anxiety and
stress in grad school

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and now I am a totally dysfunctional,
highly suicidal individual.

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The only thing that\'s happened
between then and now

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is I\'ve been exposed to a series of
very strong psychiatric medications.

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Right now, medicines are given like candy.

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Patients are seeing doctors for five
minutes and they\'re given a pill.

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It\'s my belief that many of the medications
that doctors are giving to patients today

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are more harmful than
helpful to those patients.

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They want a pill that they hope will take
care of their problem thoroughly and rapidly

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and most of these medications will actually
do that very well in the short term.

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In the short term, they really work.

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The problem is in the long term
they\'re mostly disastrous.

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I\'m not sick, there\'s
nothing wrong with me.

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This is just damage to my nervous system
caused by a properly taken prescribed drug

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that a doctor told me was safe.

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There\'s nothing safe about this drug.

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This is crazy.

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It\'s very clear to me
after having studied the science,

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that the way we use psychiatric drugs
does vastly more harm than good.

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I remember driving my niece
to school and thinking,

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\"All the kids are going to be murdered.\"

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Then that thought created adrenaline.

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When the adrenaline
kicked in, I thought,

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\"My God, am I going to be
the one who does it?\"

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Then I thought, \"Yes, Angie,
you\'re going to kill these kids.\"

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I\'m sitting here
looking at my niece,

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and my thoughts are so bad
that my teeth chatter:

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\"Oh my God, I\'m capable of that?
Are you kidding me?\"

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I was never like this.

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That\'s the scariest part, because
is this my new normal?

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Did Effexor do this to me?
Did Cymbalta do this to me?

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Did Geodon? Abilify?

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Which one? Which one did it?

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[MUSIC]

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I was very successful academically.

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I got accepted into the Naval
Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.

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After Annapolis, I did a few years on a
destroyer based out of Mayport, Florida.

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Then when you\'re at sea, you\'re training
to be the guy directing the ship

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where to navigate, where to go.

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It\'s great fun, but also
extremely high stress, but I loved it.

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I was pre-selected for
Satellite Systems Engineering.

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And for that I needed
to go to grad school.

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When I got the acceptance letter from MIT,

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it was one of those moments
when you think,

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\"This is not happening.
It must be a mistake.\"

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But the stars had aligned
and I was really happy.

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Fall semester went off without a hitch.

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I had started a romantic relationship
earlier that summer.

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The early Spring is when
things started to fall apart.

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My romantic relationship
took a turn, became toxic.

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I was in distress, I was overwhelmed.

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We were taking four to five
graduate-level courses a semester,

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so I sought out care from the mental
health clinic at MIT, the campus clinic.

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The presented solution to my problems

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was a prescription for
the benzodiazepine Ativan,

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which I\'d never previously
known about or taken, and Zoloft.

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They work as advertised.
It\'s a very immediate effect.

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It\'s very calming.

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Dave told me on our
third or fourth date

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that he was on medication
for depression and ADHD.

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I have ADHD myself and
take medication for that.

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I had issues with depression and sought out
help and medication and counseling.

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It\'s fairly normal now.

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I met the girl of my dreams.
We got engaged in that period.

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Work was great.
I loved it.

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I returned to what I thought
was my normal self.

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Somewhere at about eight months, I
started noticing emotional flatness,

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some sexual dysfunction,

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difficulty remembering
what street we lived on.

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That whole period is just a blur.
I was a zombie.

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I had this big wedding planned.

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I can remember talking to my mom then.

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I said, \"Mom, I feel nothing.
I feel emotionally void.\"

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That\'s when I went to the psychiatrist
and said, \"This stuff isn\'t for me.

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I need to get off it.
I think the drug is my problem.\"

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That\'s really when the shit hit the fan.

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[MUSIC]

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I\'ve always been very close with
my parents, even when I was a child.

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I love school. I like to be
with my friends a lot.

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I feel very comforted
being around other people.

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When I was 11 years old, I moved
from Nashville to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

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We moved a lot for my parents\' jobs,
which is very hard

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in terms of keeping lifelong friends.

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I would oftentimes just sit
in my room and listen to music

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and, honestly, just mope around.

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I started having a lot of anxiety
about school, and I was so anxious,

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I got stomachaches
and didn\'t want to eat.

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I wouldn\'t eat breakfast
because I had a stomachache.

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I wouldn\'t eat much lunch
because of a stomachache.

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I noticed that she\'d gotten thin.

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I blurted out, \"Do you think
you might be anorexic?\"

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She got on the scale, and said,
\"I think I lost 20 pounds.\"

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I totally freaked out and
got an appointment the same day.

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Then toward the end, the therapist
asked me to come into the room.

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She said, \"I think what would
be best to kickstart this treatment

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is for her to get
on antidepressants.\"

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Wait a second, we came
here for talk therapy.

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We didn\'t come here
to kickstart it with medication.

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That\'s the whole point
of going to a therapist, I thought.

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Rebecka was prescribed
Zoloft for the first medication.

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She said it didn\'t
really make a difference.

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She didn\'t feel any better, but she also
didn\'t feel any worse at that time.

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When we saw her doctor again,
she switched her to Prozac.

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Shortly after,
I had a business trip.

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I got a phone call from Rebecka and she
said, \"I\'ve been seeing this little girl.\"

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And I said, \"What do you mean you\'ve
been seeing a little girl?\"

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\"She\'s not really there, but I can
see her and I named her Alice.\"

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I genuinely thought there were people in
the room who weren\'t there,

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who others couldn\'t see,
but they were very real for me.

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She came into our bedroom
late at night and she was shaking.

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She said, \"The
hallucination touched me

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and asked me to come into the
kitchen so I could hurt myself.\"

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They said, \"Enough of this.
She needs help.\"

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[MUSIC]

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I was a waitress in New York City.

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A pretty normal girl doing normal
things, nothing exceptional,

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nothing not exceptional,
just normal.

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My mind was clear. I was happy.

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The only little issue
was I couldn\'t sleep.

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I get out at two
or three in the morning.

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I knew that my sleep issues
were related to working at night.

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So I went to my doctor, my regular doctor.
I saw him maybe twice a year.

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I asked him for something for sleep.
He gave me a referral.

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I took the referral and I
called a bunch of psychiatrists.

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One doctor in Brooklyn said, \"Yes, we\'re
seeing patients. Come on in.\"

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He gave me a prescription
for lorazepam.

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He told me to take two
in the day and two at night.

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I then said, \"Why do I need to take
a sleeping pill during the day?

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I don\'t want to sleep
during the day.\"

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He said, \"That is how it works.\"

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I said, \"Okay.\"

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I didn\'t even know people
could have sleep issues

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because I\'d slept
normally all my life,

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so it was not something
I thought about.

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I had a feeling it was my job.
I just didn\'t think I could quit my job.

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I thought I could get help for it.

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That\'s why I went to a psychiatrist and
he prescribed me this drug, lorazepam.

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I took it for six years.

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- Wait, you took lorazepam for six years?
- Six-and-a-half years.

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Unfortunately, that\'s the problem that
most pharmacists see with lorazepam.

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Lorazepam, if the doctor takes time to
read the package insert, clearly states...

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Are they not reading?

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I don\'t know.
I can only tell you what I read.

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The use of benzodiazepines has
increased tremendously over the years.

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Since they\'ve been
around for such a long time,

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a lot of doctors have forgotten
about the side effects

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and possible dangers
of these medications.

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None of them were ever meant for
long-term use, but everybody knows somebody

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who\'s been taking
benzodiazepines for years.

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[MUSIC]

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I started thinking, \"When did
this start? How did this start?

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What led up to me falling apart?\"

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I was always the go-to
person in my unit.

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If they needed a job done right,
they asked me.

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I was physically fit, knew my job.
I got promoted to Sergeant.

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After work, I was a lot of fun. I liked
to travel, go to the beach, be spontaneous.

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I was the happy person,
the happy-go-lucky friend,

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\"Hey, let\'s go shopping.
Let\'s go to a bakery.\"

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Never had a second thought
about anything crazy.

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That\'s who I was before this.

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So when the war started, the problem for me
was stressful situations every day,

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like being shot at in convoys, driving
around in dangerous areas of Baghdad.

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My head was constantly
scanning for something dangerous.

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I\'m going to be a strong sergeant.
I don\'t take no shit.

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That\'s just the way I was.

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But the first two months I was in Baghdad,
I was really, really sick.

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I had nosebleeds, fainting,
dizziness. I lost 40 pounds.

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They medevacked me out of Iraq.

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Then my convoy got hit
the day after I got medevacked.

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I saw the kid come back in and he was
one of my soldiers, and I felt horrible.

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That was the day that I saw psychiatry with
the arrow, and I walked straight there,

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because that\'s what you do.

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They put me on Klonopin.
That\'s how this all started.

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They\'re trained while on active
duty, very systematically

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that if you come back and have problems,
you need to go to the doctor.

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A hundred years ago,
if they had this kind of trauma,

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they would talk to their fellow
soldiers, to their parents,

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to their friends,
to their pastor.

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Instead, they\'re going to their
doctor and getting medicated.

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I think the Klonopin was
starting to make me worse,

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but they kept telling
me, \"That\'s what PTSD is.

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You have PTSD now.\"

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I remember he looked at me and said,

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\"We\'re going to start the
proceedings for medical retirement.

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You are not able to be around
soldiers and no weapons.\"

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I remember feeling, \"How was I a
super-soldier and now I\'m disabled at 25?\"

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Are you kidding?

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There is a post-traumatic stress,
and it\'s a problem.

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We would never argue with you
that it\'s not a problem.

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It is a problem.

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It\'s a big problem, but
it\'s not a mental illness.

00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:57.040
I feel like I\'m waking up
from a nightmare, thinking,

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\"What the fuck
happened to my life?\"

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You lost years of your life.
You lost your career.

00:13:01.530 --> 00:13:05.129
There are so many things
that are losses here.

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That\'s part of the situation
we\'re in as a culture,

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that if you run to the doctor
and cry about this,

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they will say, \"Oh,
you have major depression,\"

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and they\'re going to stick you
on the next pill, instead of saying,

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\"Hey, you know what? Suffering
is the only normal response.

00:13:18.780 --> 00:13:22.439
There\'s a grief process
you have to go through.

00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.520
Wow.

00:13:24.430 --> 00:13:26.090
Normal is in danger.

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The definitions used in psychiatry,
and even more, the way they\'re applied

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have become so wide that a far too
large percentage of the population

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would be defined as
having a mental disorder.

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Now we have patients come in, and
if they\'re anxious or can\'t sleep

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or have some physical pain, we say,
\"My gosh, let\'s get rid of that.\"

00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.409
We have vilified pain, and I\'m talking
about emotional pain and physical pain.

00:13:52.410 --> 00:13:54.939
It has now become the
responsibility of the doctor

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to eliminate all suffering,
at all cost.

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There is a cultural context,

00:14:00.460 --> 00:14:05.679
and that context goes back to the
arrival of antibiotics in late 1940s,

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and then the polio vaccine.

00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:09.839
They really do change life.

00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.139
Bacterial infections are
no longer a problem.

00:14:12.140 --> 00:14:14.889
Now we have a
magic cure for polio.

00:14:14.890 --> 00:14:16.999
Now we believe in magic bullets.

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Pretty soon, we will
have magic bullets for everything.

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[MUSIC]

00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:58.279
What you find in psychiatry, if you
trace its history, is that in the 1970s,

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American psychiatry was in competition
with other therapists for talk therapy:

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counselors, social workers.

00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:06.279
What do they say to themselves?

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They say, \"We need to present
ourselves as medical doctors.

00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:12.059
We need to put on a white coat.\"

00:15:12.060 --> 00:15:16.639
They adopt a disease model for
categorizing psychiatric disorder.

00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:19.309
We\'re going to say, \"These
are diseases of the brain,

00:15:19.310 --> 00:15:21.919
illnesses of the brain,
and our drugs, therefore,

00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:23.839
treat the symptoms
of those illnesses.\"

00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.439
It centers on the chemical
imbalance theory of mental disorders.

00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.949
While the cause is unknown, depression may be
related to an imbalance of natural chemicals

00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:33.959
between nerve cells in the brain.

00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.049
Prescription Zoloft works
to correct this imbalance.

00:15:37.050 --> 00:15:41.079
When you know more about what\'s wrong,
you can help make it right.

00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:46.639
It hasn\'t been possible to demonstrate
that first you have a chemical imbalance,

00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:51.309
and then, because of that,
you become depressed or psychotic.

00:15:51.310 --> 00:15:56.859
But we have shown that the drugs
create a chemical imbalance.

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Nobody has a clue what happens
when you push this system somewhere.

00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:06.159
You have all sorts
of reactions elsewhere.

00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:14.160
It\'s a very naive thought that a psychiatric
disorder is based on one single thing,

00:16:14.890 --> 00:16:19.399
chemically, that went wrong,
and then we have a quick fix for that.

00:16:19.400 --> 00:16:22.720
It\'s totally, totally naive.

00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:27.639
In 1980, the American Psychiatric
Association adopted a disease model

00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:30.809
and began to tell that
story to the American public.

00:16:30.810 --> 00:16:34.089
Do you know who was so happy with
that story? The pharmaceutical industry.

00:16:34.090 --> 00:16:38.349
They were thrilled with this story because
now they could see markets expanding...

00:16:38.350 --> 00:16:42.799
Depression, anxiety. All these
things we used to think of as

00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:47.759
normal fluctuations in human experience
could now be seen as illnesses.

00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:50.139
Therefore, you could treat with
drugs, and they said, \"Wow.\"

00:16:50.140 --> 00:16:53.759
[MUSIC] Binge eating disorder,
or BED, isn\'t just overeating,

00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:55.439
it\'s a real medical condition.

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.719
Certain chemicals
in the brain may play a role.

00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.849
BED is also the most common
eating disorder in US adults.

00:17:01.850 --> 00:17:09.850
[MUSIC]

00:17:12.360 --> 00:17:17.039
I never really thought that
the medication was a bad thing.

00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:20.109
I was like, \"Yes, if this is going
to make me feel better, awesome.

00:17:20.110 --> 00:17:22.489
Okay, if this other one will
make me feel better, awesome.

00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:26.089
Oh, if these four will make me
feel better, great, let\'s do it.

00:17:26.090 --> 00:17:27.869
I will try anything.\"

00:17:27.870 --> 00:17:33.389
There was never any notion that the
medication was causing these symptoms.

00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:36.719
They acted instead like
the disease was developing.

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:40.909
The only warning she gave, which
she was very dismissive about, was,

00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:45.769
\"You might hear, Mr. Green,
that in some instances,

00:17:45.770 --> 00:17:49.279
people who are on antidepressants
might have suicidal thoughts,

00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:52.159
but this really isn\'t something
you should be overly concerned about.\"

00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.519
She said, almost flippantly,

00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:56.969
\"You might want to
lock up your knives.\"

00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:04.970
So we went out and bought a lock box
and put anything dangerous in there.

00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:08.489
That\'s really when
it sunk in even more.

00:18:08.490 --> 00:18:11.099
Like, \"Wow, this is serious.\"

00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:15.949
I was hospitalized the
first time when I was 13.

00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:21.439
Over the course of the year, I think I was
hospitalized seven or eight times.

00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.039
Leaving her in a hospital,
a psychiatric hospital,

00:18:24.040 --> 00:18:26.729
this was not our life.
This was not our daughter.

00:18:26.730 --> 00:18:29.879
We knew our daughter.
We knew a few months before

00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:35.949
that she had been a little depressed and
melancholic, but this was a far leap from that.

00:18:35.950 --> 00:18:40.299
Once in the hospital,
they added an antipsychotic

00:18:40.300 --> 00:18:43.519
because she was now
experiencing psychotic behavior.

00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:46.319
In addition, they prescribed
another medication

00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:50.399
to take care of the known
side effects of the antipsychotic.

00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.309
We didn\'t really know what else
to do and we were in the system.

00:18:53.310 --> 00:18:59.129
We wanted to trust the experts,
so we went that route.

00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:06.539
My mind was filled with horrible
thoughts about myself, how horrible I was,

00:19:06.540 --> 00:19:08.139
and how much I hated myself.

00:19:08.140 --> 00:19:11.900
What is the point of me
even being here anymore?

00:19:13.020 --> 00:19:15.799
Many, many people are getting
an antidepressant,

00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:20.300
an antipsychotic, a benzodiazepine,
and a sleep medicine

00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.759
without any rhyme or reason.

00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:27.549
Instead of the beneficial effects
of these different medicines

00:19:27.550 --> 00:19:29.689
adding up to something wonderful,

00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:34.009
very often, their harmful effects
add up to something terrible.

00:19:34.010 --> 00:19:37.479
When I got out of the Army
and went to the VA system,

00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:39.469
it was like a whole
other ballgame.

00:19:39.470 --> 00:19:44.429
It turned into cocktails of
antipsychotic, antidepressant, benzo.

00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:48.319
I said to the clinician,
\"I don\'t have good feelings.

00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:51.419
All I feel is numb
or anxious or depressed.

00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:55.129
I don\'t ever feel happy
or grateful or loving.\"

00:19:55.130 --> 00:19:58.479
They said, \"We\'ll add another medicine,
maybe that one\'s not working.\"

00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.650
Then we\'ll switch
to a different one.

00:20:01.310 --> 00:20:04.989
Basically, my medication
history is just a succession of,

00:20:04.990 --> 00:20:08.239
\"This doesn\'t work, let\'s go up to
the highest dose and see what happens.

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.239
Okay, it didn\'t work.
Come back down.

00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.439
Okay, that didn\'t work,
let\'s switch it and try another.\"

00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:16.779
It\'s like a hamster wheel
that I never got off until now.

00:20:16.780 --> 00:20:21.179
What happens to someone like Angie
is that when they get on these medications

00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:23.439
and they begin to deteriorate,

00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:28.669
they attribute it to their mental
condition, not to the medication.

00:20:28.670 --> 00:20:30.799
When they go in and they say,

00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:34.039
\"You gave me an antidepressant
and now I\'m really depressed,\"

00:20:34.040 --> 00:20:36.989
they reply, \"Well, I see
your depression is worsening,\"

00:20:36.990 --> 00:20:39.339
so they raise it,
or add a medication.

00:20:39.340 --> 00:20:40.999
Next they\'re
on uppers and downers.

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.799
You see this pattern,
and every time they go in,

00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:46.319
they say it\'s their deteriorating
mental condition,

00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:49.869
not, \"Your drug may
be your problem.\"

00:20:49.870 --> 00:20:57.870
[MUSIC]

00:21:06.510 --> 00:21:08.399
- Hi. How are you?
- Nice to see you.

00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.649
- Nice to meet you.
- You too.

00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:12.519
Thank you for coming.

00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:13.979
It\'s awesome to be here.

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:17.259
I\'m so nervous because I can\'t
talk like this at my own school.

00:21:17.260 --> 00:21:20.119
[LAUGHTER]

00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:23.709
I want to just run through my story
quickly and then we can talk

00:21:23.710 --> 00:21:26.269
because I\'m sure you have
really cool questions.

00:21:26.270 --> 00:21:28.939
I was on a cocktail of 17
medications at once,

00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:32.119
and then, basically,
from 2006 to 2016,

00:21:32.120 --> 00:21:34.599
it took me all that time
to get off all of them.

00:21:34.600 --> 00:21:39.159
Every time you went in and you
were prescribed these medications

00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.479
what were you told
about the side effects?

00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.609
How much information were you given
before you were prescribed this medication?

00:21:45.610 --> 00:21:48.479
In the office, you have 10 minutes
with the psychiatrist, that\'s it.

00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.409
Then they say,
\"How are you feeling today?\"

00:21:50.410 --> 00:21:54.459
And then you say, \"Well, I\'m still really
anxious, and I didn\'t sleep last week.\"

00:21:54.460 --> 00:21:57.149
Then they say, \"Well, I want
you to take this little quiz.

00:21:57.150 --> 00:21:59.739
Do you feel jumpy in public?

00:21:59.740 --> 00:22:02.279
Do you spend time with friends?\"

00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:04.409
It was one of those
psychological assessments.

00:22:04.410 --> 00:22:06.559
I fill out the little test,
and he takes the test.

00:22:06.560 --> 00:22:09.419
Then he pulls out the DSM
and says,

00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:11.839
\"Yes, you have generalized
anxiety disorder.\"

00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:14.959
I think, \"What is another
label going to do for me now?

00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.319
Really, another label?
Thank you.\"

00:22:17.320 --> 00:22:21.449
Now I have addict, PTSD, generalized
anxiety, panic disorder with agoraphobia,

00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:23.769
major depression, for what?

00:22:23.770 --> 00:22:26.190
What do any of those labels do for me?

00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.800
Nothing. I do everything that you tell
me to do, and I\'m not getting better.

00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:36.489
The most hurtful part of all of this that I want
you to listen to is that I did all the therapy.

00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:39.769
I saw social workers, therapists,
psychiatrists, psychologists.

00:22:39.770 --> 00:22:43.210
Not once did somebody say,
\"It could be your meds.\"

00:22:43.340 --> 00:22:45.870
Not once in 13 years.

00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.760
That is what hurts me the most.

00:22:49.070 --> 00:22:51.960
Now, I\'m in social work school.
I have all As.

00:22:52.110 --> 00:22:53.689
My brain is coming back.

00:22:53.690 --> 00:22:55.789
[APPLAUSE]

00:22:55.790 --> 00:22:57.999
I can write a mean APA paper.

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.019
[LAUGHTER]

00:23:01.020 --> 00:23:05.579
You were saying that a lot of these meds that
are being prescribed for four to six years

00:23:05.580 --> 00:23:07.449
should only be taken for a few weeks.

00:23:07.450 --> 00:23:09.529
Do you think there\'s ever
a place for medications

00:23:09.530 --> 00:23:12.749
or would you ever hold someone\'s
hand through that decision process?

00:23:12.750 --> 00:23:16.239
At the beginning I was anti-med.
I thought, \"No way,\"

00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:20.349
Hell no,\" because I\'m lucky I didn\'t
kill myself or someone else.

00:23:20.350 --> 00:23:22.960
How could I say, \"Go ahead
and take those meds?\"

00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:28.299
There are times when some people,
and when I say some, I mean very few...

00:23:28.300 --> 00:23:31.610
So, I\'m not anti-med,
I\'m pro-informed consent.

00:23:31.820 --> 00:23:34.909
If you, as a social worker, want to talk
with them about informed consent,

00:23:34.910 --> 00:23:37.129
that is well within
your boundaries.

00:23:37.130 --> 00:23:39.869
We get it for surgery,
why not for meds?

00:23:39.870 --> 00:23:44.159
You shared that you\'re uncomfortable
with all the labels you\'ve been given.

00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.559
If you could change that label
to something, what would you say?

00:23:47.560 --> 00:23:50.999
I think I was just scared.

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:54.039
I was a scared little
girl who was 24,

00:23:54.040 --> 00:23:58.030
and it didn\'t have
to be so complicated.

00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:07.470
[MUSIC]

00:24:13.100 --> 00:24:17.710
I was first diagnosed
with ADHD when I was 15, I think.

00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:21.209
I remember feeling relief
to get the diagnosis.

00:24:21.210 --> 00:24:25.359
\"My gosh, that\'s why
everything is so hard.

00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:29.629
It\'s not that I\'m stupid.
It\'s not that I\'m lazy.\"

00:24:29.630 --> 00:24:34.199
I was pretty severely depressed.
I couldn\'t go to school.

00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:38.810
I just cried all the time.
Yes, it was kind of a mess.

00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:42.989
At that point,
I was put on Dexedrine.

00:24:42.990 --> 00:24:48.089
I felt much better and was able
to go to school on a regular basis.

00:24:48.090 --> 00:24:51.689
I felt some hope again.

00:24:51.690 --> 00:24:57.279
I hear anecdotes that vary, anecdotes
of the great effects of drugs,

00:24:57.280 --> 00:25:01.979
and I would say that\'s about 20% or
25% of anecdotes I hear,

00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:03.799
\"This has been great for me.

00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:06.429
This has helped me
through a very difficult time.\"

00:25:06.430 --> 00:25:10.429
About 40% say,
\"It may have helped some,

00:25:10.430 --> 00:25:14.729
It\'s hard to tell what exactly it
was doing. I can\'t say it hurt me.

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:15.999
I can\'t say it helped me.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.919
I seem indifferent to what
it may have done.\"

00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:24.459
Then I get the other 30% or 35%,
saying, \"This hurt me. This damaged me.\"

00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:26.139
That\'s the anecdotes I\'ve heard.

00:25:26.140 --> 00:25:31.129
And I think that also details what
you find in the literature.

00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:35.229
The reason I changed
the way I practice

00:25:35.230 --> 00:25:38.959
was the realization that I was
harming my patients.

00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:43.079
It is very clear that there
is a cohort of patients

00:25:43.080 --> 00:25:48.079
for whom getting off of these drugs
is exquisitely painful.

00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:54.119
[MUSIC]

00:25:54.120 --> 00:25:58.219
When Dave decided to go off the meds,
I think he didn\'t share it with me

00:25:58.220 --> 00:26:03.179
because he knew that they worked for me
and were successful for me,

00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:05.179
but that wasn\'t the case for him.

00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:09.439
She knew something was different.
She knew something was wrong.

00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.119
I was having a lot of irritability,
a lot of difficulty communicating.

00:26:12.120 --> 00:26:15.819
It put a lot of stress on our relationship
and we just didn\'t talk about it much.

00:26:15.820 --> 00:26:20.959
I thought I was the worst wife in the world
and I didn\'t know what was going on.

00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.430
Every day driving home, I thought,
\"What can I do differently?\"

00:26:25.610 --> 00:26:29.449
About four weeks later,
he shared with me that

00:26:29.450 --> 00:26:32.520
he had taken himself
off the medication.

00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.830
It was a huge relief to know,
\"Okay, it\'s not me.\"

00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:44.239
But he became short and irritable,
and he wasn\'t positive anymore.

00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:46.159
Everything was negative.

00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:51.790
I was totally dysfunctional
and began experiencing

00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:56.859
an irrational terror-like
level of anxiety

00:26:56.860 --> 00:26:59.529
that I had never
previously experienced.

00:26:59.530 --> 00:27:03.149
I\'d come home from work
and find him on the kitchen floor,

00:27:03.150 --> 00:27:06.699
curled up in a ball
just sobbing and rocking.

00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:12.190
He didn\'t want anybody to touch him
or be anywhere near him.

00:27:13.150 --> 00:27:21.039
He would find a place to hide
in the house and sob uncontrollably.

00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:22.829
It was really hard to see.

00:27:22.830 --> 00:27:28.239
I got to a point where I completely
refused to consume any more drugs,

00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.200
and that came to a head
several months ago.

00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.750
That\'s why right
now we\'re separated.

00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:39.149
The breaking point in my decision
to move out involved a couple of things.

00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:43.769
He believes it\'s just going to take time
and there\'s nothing else you can do.

00:27:43.770 --> 00:27:49.659
I said, \"Here are the options that I see,
they\'re mostly medically-based,\"

00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:52.989
and he absolutely refused.

00:27:52.990 --> 00:27:55.799
I explained my entire background
to my psychiatrist. I said,

00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:57.839
\"Look, I took pride
in being in the Navy.

00:27:57.840 --> 00:28:00.959
I took pride in surviving and
making it through MIT

00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.369
and I had high hopes to do good things
for the Navy and for the country.

00:28:05.370 --> 00:28:07.559
Now, I don\'t know who I am.

00:28:07.560 --> 00:28:10.039
And the only thing that\'s
happened between then and now

00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:14.380
is I\'ve been exposed to a series
of very strong psychiatric medications.\"

00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:16.759
The answer after 20 minutes was,

00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:19.440
\"Well, I can give you
a prescription for Cymbalta.\"

00:28:26.570 --> 00:28:28.809
When I did move out,

00:28:28.810 --> 00:28:32.299
he called me and said he was standing
in the basement next to a noose.

00:28:32.300 --> 00:28:35.179
I said, \"What\'s your safety plan?\"

00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:38.299
He said, \"To call you.\"

00:28:38.300 --> 00:28:41.560
I said, \"That\'s not a safety plan.
You need to hang up and call 911.\"

00:28:44.320 --> 00:28:50.759
I hate having to tell him that.
It feels callous to me.

00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:53.319
When you\'re going through the
withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,

00:28:53.320 --> 00:28:57.660
the best thing is to get
back off that ledge

00:28:59.230 --> 00:29:03.260
and just say, \"Dave,
give yourself more time,

00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:08.400
give yourself more time,
continue to fight for it.

00:29:09.280 --> 00:29:15.580
Someday you\'ll regain a sense of
normalcy in your day-to-day life.\"

00:29:21.930 --> 00:29:25.259
Typically, we find that
the withdrawal phenomenon

00:29:25.260 --> 00:29:27.849
is the opposite of
whatever the drug does.

00:29:27.850 --> 00:29:33.869
If the intention of the drug is to help somebody
be more relaxed or help them fall asleep,

00:29:33.870 --> 00:29:36.839
then when they\'re experiencing withdrawal,
they will experience

00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:39.559
anxiety and restlessness and insomnia.

00:29:39.560 --> 00:29:44.799
This may even get so bad that they become
profoundly depressed and consider suicide.

00:29:44.800 --> 00:29:48.159
The withdrawal symptoms can
often be much worse

00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.129
than the original problems
the person came with.

00:29:51.130 --> 00:29:54.439
And the withdrawal is
very, very difficult.

00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.439
Sometimes quite dangerous.

00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.819
It may take months or years
to really be accomplished.

00:29:59.820 --> 00:30:03.199
People are jumping out of their skin,
feeling terrific anxiety,

00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.239
having all sorts of physiological symptoms
that are difficult to bear.

00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.739
People cannot stop this medicine
except in the slowest possible way

00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:15.039
with very gradual reductions in dose.

00:30:15.040 --> 00:30:19.900
[MUSIC]

00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.070
This is how I cut my pills.

00:30:23.520 --> 00:30:27.550
I\'m doing a 10% taper here.

00:30:27.630 --> 00:30:31.070
So, I take the pill.
I weigh it.

00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:40.170
A whole pill at two
milligrams weighs 0.15.

00:30:40.840 --> 00:30:42.649
Now, I need 10% of that.

00:30:42.650 --> 00:30:47.530
You don\'t want to take off too much
because then you\'ll waste the pills.

00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:51.839
It\'s almost there actually.
That\'s 10%.

00:30:51.840 --> 00:30:55.599
The first time I tapered,
I didn\'t have my scale yet,

00:30:55.600 --> 00:30:59.639
so I was just eyeballing because
I was determined to get off.

00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:04.649
Your body will tell you if you\'re
handling the cuts, based on symptoms.

00:31:04.650 --> 00:31:08.959
It took me a while to get
from 2 to 1.6. It was 1.64.

00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.040
That\'s as far as I could go.

00:31:12.560 --> 00:31:18.830
This group has almost 2,300 members.

00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:23.229
People just post stuff,
\"How\'s everyone doing today?\"

00:31:23.230 --> 00:31:24.329
Let\'s see.

00:31:24.330 --> 00:31:27.679
\"I\'m in a strange window today.
Up dose for almost two days.\"

00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:31.549
\'Up dose\' is when you\'re at a certain
dose and the symptoms get really bad,

00:31:31.550 --> 00:31:36.279
so you go back to the last dose
when you weren\'t feeling so bad.

00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:39.439
Everyone has their own unique
stuff running through them.

00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.079
No two persons are alike.

00:31:41.080 --> 00:31:46.969
I had brain zap, I had tremors,
I had severe night sweats.

00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:50.429
I have a symptom where it feels like
things are crawling inside my body,

00:31:50.430 --> 00:31:51.999
just, just moving.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.059
I came across this image and I thought,

00:31:54.060 --> 00:31:57.930
\"Wow, that\'s exactly how it is.\"

00:31:58.080 --> 00:32:00.239
Nobody understands this.

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:05.199
If you don\'t have support,
you will lose yourself.

00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:09.210
I\'ve been part of these
groups since last August.

00:32:09.370 --> 00:32:16.320
Since last August, we\'ve lost three people
to suicide in my support groups.

00:32:16.760 --> 00:32:17.930
Three.

00:32:18.330 --> 00:32:20.969
We lost a 50-something-year-old woman

00:32:20.970 --> 00:32:26.120
whose doctor cold-turkeyed her off of
Klonopin and she suffered.

00:32:26.890 --> 00:32:30.909
She has two little boys and
she walked in front of a train

00:32:30.910 --> 00:32:33.069
because she couldn\'t deal with it anymore.

00:32:33.070 --> 00:32:37.000
About a month ago, we lost
a 40-something-year-old guy.

00:32:37.900 --> 00:32:39.800
He shot himself in the head,

00:32:40.410 --> 00:32:43.820
blew his head off.

00:32:44.780 --> 00:32:48.329
We\'re losing people in this fight.

00:32:48.330 --> 00:32:50.640
I think about it all the time.

00:32:50.830 --> 00:32:55.630
What if my symptoms get
to the point where I can\'t make it?

00:32:56.090 --> 00:32:58.220
What am I going to do?

00:32:59.360 --> 00:33:03.759
Let\'s go back to the start
of this disease model in the 1980s.

00:33:03.760 --> 00:33:09.629
The first drug that was tested in this new era
was Xanax (alprazolam) for panic disorder.

00:33:09.630 --> 00:33:11.519
Here was the study they conducted.

00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:15.959
They compared Xanax to a placebo
group, and the primary outcome measure

00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.629
was the average number of panic
attacks per week.

00:33:19.630 --> 00:33:24.479
After four weeks, Xanax was doing
better, fewer panic attacks.

00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:28.039
At eight weeks, the Xanax patients
were doing no better than placebo.

00:33:28.040 --> 00:33:30.639
Then at the end of 14 weeks,

00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:34.009
the Xanax patients were doing worse
than they had at the beginning,

00:33:34.010 --> 00:33:37.949
and much, much worse
than the placebo patients.

00:33:37.950 --> 00:33:40.249
The trial told of harm done.

00:33:40.250 --> 00:33:42.349
It told of people who are
going to get addicted.

00:33:42.350 --> 00:33:44.859
When they came off, they\'d
have all sorts of withdrawal symptoms

00:33:44.860 --> 00:33:47.279
and some people would be
unable to get off.

00:33:47.280 --> 00:33:48.800
That\'s what the study showed.

00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:50.490
What did they report?

00:33:50.600 --> 00:33:52.269
They didn\'t report the
eight-week results.

00:33:52.270 --> 00:33:56.459
They focused on the four-week results
because that was the story that told

00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:59.179
of an effective new treatment
for panic disorder,

00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:02.639
and they completely hid
the 14-week results.

00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.599
Pretty soon, Xanax became one
of the bestselling drugs in the country.

00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:08.079
It is still prescribed left and right.

00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:10.519
And what did we have in the early \'80s?

00:34:10.520 --> 00:34:13.209
A story of science that told of harm done.

00:34:13.210 --> 00:34:14.879
The longer you take a study out,

00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.619
the more likely you are to see people
not doing well on that drug

00:34:18.620 --> 00:34:21.240
or developing side effects from that drug.

00:34:21.930 --> 00:34:27.240
The pharmaceutical industry doesn\'t favor long-term
studies for monetary reasons and for outcome reasons.

00:34:27.245 --> 00:34:32.439
They don\'t want to show that their
drug actually doesn\'t do well.

00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.450
The gorilla in the room is
the pharmaceutical industry.

00:34:36.540 --> 00:34:42.779
Drug companies spend around $80 billion
a year on marketing and lobbying.

00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:45.079
They spend much, much less on research.

00:34:45.080 --> 00:34:48.089
And most of the research they do
is really a tool of marketing.

00:34:48.090 --> 00:34:55.179
There\'s as much marketing in the tests
that are devised to measure the outcomes

00:34:55.180 --> 00:34:58.909
and the investigators that
are hired to conduct a study.

00:34:58.910 --> 00:35:01.319
All of that stuff is marketing,

00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:05.529
but it\'s presented and manufactured
and published as science.

00:35:05.530 --> 00:35:08.920
Here\'s how it\'s done
and how it was done.

00:35:08.990 --> 00:35:10.479
The pharmaceutical companies

00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.399
funneled all sorts of money to
what are called \'thought leaders\':

00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.449
academic psychiatrists at prestigious
American universities like

00:35:17.450 --> 00:35:20.029
Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins.

00:35:20.030 --> 00:35:23.529
Those academic psychiatrists began
working for the drug companies

00:35:23.530 --> 00:35:27.360
as consultants serving as their
speakers, advisers, etc.

00:35:27.470 --> 00:35:30.059
You start with the
clinical study of the drug,

00:35:30.060 --> 00:35:32.799
but who\'s designing the study?
The pharmaceutical companies.

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:35.339
They know how to design it
to make their drug look good.

00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:36.570
That\'s step one.

00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:40.299
Who then analyzes the data?
Well, their own people do it.

00:35:40.300 --> 00:35:42.920
It\'s done by the drug
companies themselves.

00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:45.529
Third then, who writes the papers?

00:35:45.530 --> 00:35:50.560
It\'s actually ghostwriters hired by the
drug companies to write up the study.

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:56.729
They now present this study to the people who
they want to be the big names of the study.

00:35:56.730 --> 00:36:00.569
Then those \'thought leaders\' basically
sign off on the ghostwritten papers

00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:04.330
and they become the \'authors\'
of the published papers.

00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:06.859
The former editors
of the medical journals

00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:09.289
like JAMA and the New England
Journal of Medicine

00:36:09.290 --> 00:36:11.019
and BMJ, the British Medical Journal,

00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:15.949
they\'ve all said, \"Basically, we became
vehicles for story laundering.\"

00:36:15.950 --> 00:36:19.610
It was a corrupted creation
of an evidence-base.

00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:25.420
Now, imagine I\'m a practicing
doctor in some town.

00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:26.679
What am I going to believe?

00:36:26.680 --> 00:36:33.799
I\'m going to believe Mr. Dr. Bigwig
at Harvard that this is the best science.

00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:38.079
So my obligation is to use
the very drug they say is so great.

00:36:38.080 --> 00:36:41.279
For example, Prozac. Prozac
didn\'t really work in the trials.

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:43.709
Prozac had all sorts
of adverse effects

00:36:43.710 --> 00:36:47.370
and those of us who are old enough
to remember when Prozac came to market,

00:36:48.030 --> 00:36:51.119
the drug itself was on the
cover of magazines.

00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:54.539
Our powers are such that we can now
give you whatever personality you want.

00:36:54.540 --> 00:36:57.179
That\'s how greatly our
knowledge is advancing.

00:36:57.180 --> 00:36:58.940
That was the story told.

00:36:59.070 --> 00:37:01.639
What did science tell us?
Did you know what they found?

00:37:01.640 --> 00:37:05.519
In the 1970s, very first studies
done in Germany. What do they see?

00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:09.439
All sorts of psychotic events,
worsening of depression,

00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:13.879
homicidal and suicidal impulses, so much
so that the German authorities said,

00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.649
\"This is a dangerous drug.
We\'re not going to approve it.\"

00:37:16.650 --> 00:37:21.050
And now go read the studies that were
reported by the Americans.

00:37:21.290 --> 00:37:24.889
The psychosis is gone.
The homicidal problems are gone.

00:37:24.890 --> 00:37:27.949
Imagine you\'re a mother,
and I know mothers

00:37:27.950 --> 00:37:33.599
who said to their kid who got depressed over
breaking up with a girl or something like that...

00:37:33.600 --> 00:37:37.159
The doctor says, \"Oh, Prozac
doesn\'t increase suicide risk.\"

00:37:37.160 --> 00:37:40.780
Then a week later, that kid hangs himself.
That\'s in a real case.

00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:43.850
Can you think of any worse
corruption than that?

00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:49.339
It has been shown that half of the deaths
that occur in psychiatric drug trials

00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:52.360
are never published. They disappear.

00:37:52.560 --> 00:37:57.600
You have an expression in America,
\"Torture your data until they confess.\"

00:37:57.720 --> 00:37:59.879
This happens all the time.

00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:05.549
The difference between an honest data
analysis and one you have manipulated

00:38:05.550 --> 00:38:10.329
can be worth billions on the world market.
What do you think they\'ll do?

00:38:10.330 --> 00:38:18.330
[MUSIC]

00:38:41.870 --> 00:38:49.870
[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]

00:38:52.160 --> 00:38:56.319
I\'m still nowhere near the person I was,
but this is how I explained it to my wife.

00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:57.579
I know I love her.

00:38:57.580 --> 00:39:02.359
I know I can recall the feelings
and the sensations

00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:05.370
of when we met, when we dated,
and when we got married,

00:39:06.490 --> 00:39:07.420
but I don\'t feel love.

00:39:07.421 --> 00:39:10.189
I don\'t feel love for her.
I don\'t feel love for my dog.

00:39:10.190 --> 00:39:11.949
I don\'t feel love or connection.

00:39:11.950 --> 00:39:13.069
It\'s almost...

00:39:13.070 --> 00:39:21.070
I don\'t feel for other people\'s
concerns or feelings or emotions.

00:39:21.610 --> 00:39:24.829
I think it\'s multifaceted.
I think it\'s partly the drugs.

00:39:24.830 --> 00:39:28.760
I think it\'s partly brought on by the severe
trauma of going through the experience.

00:39:29.210 --> 00:39:30.670
I don\'t know.

00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:37.529
My family hasn\'t necessarily understood
why I\'ve chosen to come back and stay

00:39:37.530 --> 00:39:39.239
in an abusive relationship.

00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:41.259
Why do they define it as abusive?

00:39:41.260 --> 00:39:43.759
I mean, I said some hurtful things.

00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:51.689
Yes, when you were in the absolute
depths of it, you were abusive.

00:39:51.690 --> 00:39:52.990
In what way?

00:39:54.030 --> 00:39:55.289
Verbally abusive?

00:39:55.290 --> 00:39:56.539
- Yes.
- Okay.

00:39:56.540 --> 00:39:59.869
- Not physically abusive.
- Physically no, but verbally abusive.

00:39:59.870 --> 00:40:02.619
I can recall telling you,
you\'ve just got to give me time.

00:40:02.620 --> 00:40:04.719
[CHUCKLES] I was so mad at you.

00:40:04.720 --> 00:40:06.159
Why were you so mad?

00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:11.869
Well, because we had given it time and
it wasn\'t really getting any better.

00:40:11.870 --> 00:40:19.210
I didn\'t feel like that treatment plan
was necessarily working.

00:40:19.770 --> 00:40:25.549
And you said some pretty horrible things and
it happened so quickly after we got married.

00:40:25.550 --> 00:40:28.190
I felt like it was a
bait-and-switch deal.

00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:31.180
What do you think about trying
to get off the stimulant Vyvanse?

00:40:32.040 --> 00:40:34.279
I would like to try.

00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.700
- Yeah?
- I think it\'s going to be hard.

00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:39.359
Honestly, what I\'m most scared about,
honey, is that I haven\'t heard,

00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:46.330
\"I\'m here to support you through this,
regardless of what happens.\"

00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:47.920
That\'s...

00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.049
- Are you listening?
- I am.

00:40:51.050 --> 00:40:53.240
Okay. It doesn\'t feel like it.

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.100
I\'m listening.

00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.269
I have been through hell with you

00:40:58.270 --> 00:41:02.360
and have held you while you banged
your head against the wall.

00:41:02.510 --> 00:41:07.049
And this is my fear coming from the things
you said when you were in your depths,

00:41:07.050 --> 00:41:08.719
that you\'re going to say,

00:41:08.720 --> 00:41:12.349
\"Maybe this isn\'t the right
relationship for us.\"

00:41:12.350 --> 00:41:14.110
Yes, I hear you.

00:41:14.890 --> 00:41:17.440
I have put so much into it.

00:41:20.300 --> 00:41:21.360
Yes.

00:41:23.340 --> 00:41:31.340
[MUSIC]

00:41:40.810 --> 00:41:45.159
There really is no research on the
long-term impact of stimulant use,

00:41:45.160 --> 00:41:48.159
but the longer you\'re on them,
the higher the dose,

00:41:48.160 --> 00:41:54.350
the more risks that you incur over time and the
less actual benefit you get from that drug.

00:41:55.130 --> 00:41:56.679
- Hello.
- Hi, how are you?

00:41:56.680 --> 00:41:58.280
- Good.
- Good.

00:41:59.580 --> 00:42:01.519
How has your focus been doing?

00:42:01.520 --> 00:42:03.550
Not as hot as I would like it.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:10.169
I feel like I\'ve reached
the tolerance.

00:42:10.170 --> 00:42:14.409
How long overall has it been that
you\'ve been on stimulants?

00:42:14.410 --> 00:42:16.589
Fifteen years, at least.

00:42:16.590 --> 00:42:19.719
Your dosage is as high
as I\'ve ever seen.

00:42:19.720 --> 00:42:24.169
If it\'s just not great, then normally,
we would try Adderall.

00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:28.759
Ok, but I\'m actually interested
in decreasing and getting off.

00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:29.760
Right.

00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:31.709
You always can.

00:42:31.710 --> 00:42:34.909
If I were you, I wouldn\'t
just abruptly stop.

00:42:34.910 --> 00:42:36.959
No, I\'m not interested
in abruptly stopping.

00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.549
That\'s what my husband did,
and it was not pretty.

00:42:39.550 --> 00:42:42.039
You could actually open the capsule

00:42:42.040 --> 00:42:46.079
and gradually, day after day,
just take out a little bit more.

00:42:46.080 --> 00:42:47.599
Okay. At what rate?

00:42:47.600 --> 00:42:49.099
You could judge.

00:42:49.100 --> 00:42:54.159
You could remove a third
of the amount from one of them,

00:42:54.160 --> 00:42:58.239
wait for a few days, then take a
third out of the other one.

00:42:58.240 --> 00:42:59.879
Just wean off.

00:42:59.880 --> 00:43:01.369
If on the other hand, you said,

00:43:01.370 --> 00:43:05.159
\"Definitely it\'s better to be on the
medicine, but it\'s still not great,\"

00:43:05.160 --> 00:43:10.830
then I would recommend trying Adderall
because it has a little higher potency.

00:43:11.770 --> 00:43:14.379
- Thank you, I appreciate it.
- Yes, sure. Anything else?

00:43:14.380 --> 00:43:15.839
- I think that\'s it.
- No? Super.

00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.549
- Thank you very much.
- You are very welcome.

00:43:17.550 --> 00:43:18.810
I appreciate it.

00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:25.529
Oh, Brooklyn. We\'re going
to see the doctor.

00:43:25.530 --> 00:43:28.039
We\'re going to see that doctor
who put me on these drugs.

00:43:28.040 --> 00:43:33.710
There\'s a hidden camera right here, and
I have some wires underneath all this.

00:43:34.030 --> 00:43:36.249
Well, this is it.

00:43:36.250 --> 00:43:38.730
There is the office right there.

00:43:39.750 --> 00:43:41.050
What do you know about benzos?

00:43:41.370 --> 00:43:46.169
Unfortunately a lot of people take benzos
these days, and they don\'t want to come off.

00:43:46.170 --> 00:43:47.170
They can\'t come off.

00:43:47.250 --> 00:43:48.420
No, they can.

00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:51.169
But a lot of people cannot
work up the determination.

00:43:51.170 --> 00:43:55.170
It\'s not about benzos,
it\'s about your determination.

00:43:55.210 --> 00:43:56.710
That\'s how people stop smoking.

00:43:56.750 --> 00:43:59.300
That\'s how people stop
heroin, coke, whatever.

00:43:59.340 --> 00:44:00.300
I see it all the time.

00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:02.840
Why do you think it\'s so hard
to get people off benzos?

00:44:03.260 --> 00:44:05.350
Because it\'s their fault.

00:44:05.390 --> 00:44:10.110
They don\'t want to go through any
little pain, discomfort, or suffering.

00:44:10.140 --> 00:44:12.280
Do you know the kind
of pain and discomfort?

00:44:12.560 --> 00:44:15.150
When you hear the crap that
people can\'t get off benzos...

00:44:15.190 --> 00:44:16.940
Total crap!

00:44:16.990 --> 00:44:18.740
They\'re paying lip service...

00:44:18.950 --> 00:44:22.660
I always tell people,
\"It\'s never a free ride.\"

00:44:22.670 --> 00:44:24.329
You didn\'t tell me that.

00:44:24.330 --> 00:44:27.710
You said, \"You can stop any time you want,
there will be no problem to stop.\"

00:44:27.790 --> 00:44:29.920
Yes, you can stop...

00:44:29.930 --> 00:44:32.749
Yes, but that\'s not
the impression that you gave.

00:44:32.750 --> 00:44:34.859
I didn\'t know I was going
to have withdrawal symptoms.

00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:40.079
If you had told me, \"By the way, this
drug can give you withdrawal symptoms,\"

00:44:40.080 --> 00:44:43.069
then I would have made my own decision.

00:44:43.070 --> 00:44:46.330
I based my decision in taking this drug

00:44:46.780 --> 00:44:50.569
on you, because of the trust
that I had in you.

00:44:50.570 --> 00:44:55.789
If I was given a clear picture on
the profile of this drug,

00:44:55.790 --> 00:44:59.399
I would have said,
\"No freaking way.\"

00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:00.859
He\'s following the script.

00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:06.079
He said, \"I went to medical school,
and I\'m a board-certified psychiatrist.

00:45:06.080 --> 00:45:10.119
I follow everything that
they say to diagnose people.\"

00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:12.530
So basically, he doesn\'t believe
he\'s doing anything wrong.

00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:21.050
[MUSIC]

00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:29.579
We go into this field because
we want to help people,

00:45:29.580 --> 00:45:37.580
but it\'s very difficult to know where to
look for unbiased evidence on these issues.

00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:44.959
The pharmaceutical industry has tremendous influence
over what doctors learn, how they learn it.

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:49.309
General lack of knowledge about
the dangers of these drugs

00:45:49.310 --> 00:45:54.249
is one of the main reasons that
doctors continue to prescribe

00:45:54.250 --> 00:45:57.530
even when they\'re inadvertently
causing their patients harm.

00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:01.279
I asked, \"Right before she went
on medication, she was just fine.

00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:04.759
She was a little depressed, but she
was not having psychotic episodes.

00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:08.409
She was not having body tics.
She was not hallucinating.

00:46:08.410 --> 00:46:12.270
Do you think the medication
is actually the cause of this?\"

00:46:12.520 --> 00:46:16.539
It was as if I was asking the most
irrelevant question in the world.

00:46:16.540 --> 00:46:17.869
I never got a real response.

00:46:17.870 --> 00:46:20.799
It was just not worthy
of their attention.

00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:25.679
We then said, \"This is who Rebecka is.
We know our daughter.

00:46:25.680 --> 00:46:28.749
We know this medication has
turned her into someone else.\"

00:46:28.750 --> 00:46:33.899
We said, \"We don\'t think she should
be on medication and here\'s why.\"

00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:36.169
And we read off the list of symptoms.

00:46:36.170 --> 00:46:41.739
He basically said, \"I think this is a
really bad decision, a huge mistake.\"

00:46:41.740 --> 00:46:44.350
It was a reminder of a year

00:46:44.440 --> 00:46:48.639
in which, by and large, whenever we asked,

00:46:48.640 --> 00:46:54.329
\"Is this medication harmful?\" we got
no support from the psychiatrist.

00:46:54.330 --> 00:46:57.609
None. If it\'s not medication,
then you\'re not doing it right.

00:46:57.610 --> 00:47:00.109
But we stuck to our guns.
And this sounds very dramatic,

00:47:00.110 --> 00:47:02.729
but I feel that decision
saved our daughter\'s life.

00:47:02.730 --> 00:47:06.509
I kept thinking when she first
told us she was feeling depressed,

00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:11.099
that I wouldn\'t even have had the
vocabulary to say that when I was her age.

00:47:11.100 --> 00:47:16.169
That just tells you a bit about how
pervasive this has become in our society.

00:47:16.170 --> 00:47:21.689
I see children who are acting out
or feeling distressed.

00:47:21.690 --> 00:47:27.709
They are like the canaries in the
coal mine, who are shouting out,

00:47:27.710 --> 00:47:34.280
\"There is something wrong!\"
But we quiet them.

00:47:38.990 --> 00:47:42.319
I got out of the hospital.
They took me off medication.

00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.069
Within a few months,
I was back to normal.

00:47:45.070 --> 00:47:49.529
Not normal, but my hallucinations
were completely gone

00:47:49.530 --> 00:47:53.819
and what was left were
the issues I begin with,

00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:56.349
the anxiety and the eating disorder.

00:47:56.350 --> 00:48:00.920
And then we could focus on those
because those were the problems.

00:48:02.510 --> 00:48:05.819
College was something I never
thought that I would do

00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:07.449
during that year and even after.

00:48:07.450 --> 00:48:10.729
I thought, \"There\'s no way I can go
to college. I can\'t handle that.\"

00:48:10.730 --> 00:48:12.749
But here I am handling it.

00:48:12.750 --> 00:48:16.680
It\'s a paradise for someone who
loves school as much as I do.

00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:20.589
I\'m just being a normal
college student having fun

00:48:20.590 --> 00:48:24.269
because that\'s what
I can actually do now.

00:48:24.270 --> 00:48:32.270
[STUDENTS SINGING]

00:48:36.560 --> 00:48:38.459
Why did you do this for me?

00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.239
I was as concerned as you were
about coming off the drugs,

00:48:42.240 --> 00:48:45.209
and I wanted to make
sure you were in charge.

00:48:45.210 --> 00:48:50.189
You could do what you felt was best,
with the tools laid out for you.

00:48:50.190 --> 00:48:55.849
The best way is an exponential taper,
and that\'s what we plotted out here.

00:48:55.850 --> 00:49:01.680
What that leads to is
this nice, slow decline

00:49:01.850 --> 00:49:03.849
over an extended period of time.

00:49:03.850 --> 00:49:05.309
Do you think it was of any value?

00:49:05.310 --> 00:49:13.310
Well, yes, because when I did it myself,
I went down too quickly and felt horrible.

00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:17.609
This gave me a clear plan
with specific dates and numbers.

00:49:17.610 --> 00:49:19.210
It was very helpful.

00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:20.839
Math can be love.

00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.520
[LAUGHTER]

00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:30.759
I see glimmers of the
old Dave much more often

00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:34.460
than I have in several years.

00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:41.789
He\'s not there all the time,
but I want to come home now,

00:49:41.790 --> 00:49:49.790
whereas before, I said to myself, \"Okay, take
a couple of deep breaths and come home.\"

00:49:51.660 --> 00:49:56.349
Now I want to come home,
which is a good feeling.

00:49:56.350 --> 00:49:58.319
It\'s nice to feel that again.

00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:06.320
[MUSIC]

00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:18.999
He was killed in action a month
to the day after I was medevacked out.

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:23.099
Now, I\'m processing this grief 13 years
later, and most people would say,

00:50:23.100 --> 00:50:24.809
\"You should be over it right now.\"

00:50:24.810 --> 00:50:28.649
I just had to call one of my soldiers and
ask, \"Can you tell me the story again?

00:50:28.650 --> 00:50:31.920
Because the last time I heard it,
I was on drugs. I didn\'t feel it.\"

00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:34.779
Now I need to sit by him and think,

00:50:34.780 --> 00:50:37.629
\"Look what this war did to us,\"
and feel it.

00:50:37.630 --> 00:50:45.630
[MUSIC]

00:51:09.470 --> 00:51:17.470
[BACKGROUND NOISE]

00:51:20.250 --> 00:51:28.250
[MUSIC]