WEBVTT

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♪

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♪

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It\"s a pursuant
sensibility among many people.

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So it\"s just human nature

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to look for the next big thing.

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♪

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I mean, the last 15 years

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has been the largest
unprecedented

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roll up of wealth
for private individuals

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across the globe, so...

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♪

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An influx of new capital
came into the market place.

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It\"s gotten bigger,

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it has more depth and traction,

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it\"s become more
international...

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it\"s become smarter.

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♪

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But these are very
thinly traded markets.

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I mean, how many people
in the world

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can buy a painting
for $30 million, you know?

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It\"s a pretty specific market.

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I think we expect
that there will be

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good results,
it should be a good sale.

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Feels like the market
is with us now.

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I don\"t feel any
pull back or any drag.

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Lots of people
are watching, for example,

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the Basquiat,
the wonderful Basquiat

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\"Dustheads\" we have.

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Everybody\"s always
watching how Gerhard Richter

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will perform, naturally.

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Fantastic Jackson Pollock,

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very rare to market.

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♪

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I think part of it
is liking the works

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and having a passion
for them, naturally.

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This is a little bit
more exciting

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than doing a derivatives trade
or something like that.

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Certainly more sexy,
more interesting.

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But also when people
are spending

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big sums of money...

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they\"re thinking
with some conscious effort

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about the investment
value of it,

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or whether or not
it\"s a safe thing to buy.

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So that asset could
become liquid

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at some point
if they would need it to be.

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And so I think
contemporary art, in particular,

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has become a kind of
global currency.

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Good evening,
ladies and gentlemen.

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Good evening and welcome
to tonight\"s sale

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of post-war
and contemporary art.

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Welcome to all of our collectors

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calling on Christie\"s line.

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We will commence tonight, sir,
with lot number one,

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the Grotjahn.

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The colored butterfly,
white background,

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10 wings, 527.

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And here it is showing

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on the turn table.

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Where should we start this?

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$400,000 to start me.

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420,000, 420,000.

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Who\"s going on here at 420?

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450.

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At $450,000.

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You give me 550, Laura?

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550, thank you.

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550 is here.

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Here it is with Laura
at 600,000.

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One more?

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Laura going on at 700.

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Would you give me 750?

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Are we all done
in the sale room?

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800,000.

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You coming in, sir?

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Oh! 850,000
going on with Brett Gorvy.

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At 850,000.

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On the telephones,
not just here in the room,

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and selling at $850,000.

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The collectors
in the late \"80s were,

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I would think they were
probably slightly older.

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They were at least
in their 50s if not older.

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They\"ve been collecting
for a long time.

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They\"d made their money,

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they were quiet secure
in who they were

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and why they were
interested in art.

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I think what\"s changed...

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The quick answer
to that would be

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these days I think it\"s
much younger group of people

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who work very hard
and have very little time

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to look at the art
and to experience

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what the art means to them.

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And so, you\"ve got
to be very concise

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about putting into context.

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They don\"t spend
an hour, hour and a half

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looking at what you have
in your gallery.

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They really want in 10 minutes

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to know everything it is
that you\"re doing

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to bring them up to speed.

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That\"s the biggest change.

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♪

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As opposed to what\"s happening

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in the art world today
where people are actually

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showing their work while still
even an undergraduate,

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not even in graduate school,

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and collector\"s
are haunting the schools

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looking for young talented...

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There\"s no way that any of us

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could possibly have left Yale

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and come to New York
and started showing

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what we did there.

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It was so clearly student work.

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And um, I think that was good,

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because when we got here,
we had...

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we could take as many
years as we needed

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to come up with
some sort of mature

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personal vision
or style, or something.

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And there didn\"t seem to be

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any real pressure
to show that early.

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Most of our heroes
in the abstract

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expressionist world,

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many of them didn\"t show
until they were 40,

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50 years old.

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People always imagine
this more...

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more sophisticated,
but it\"s a lot of...

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kind of quiet, boring operation

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when you want to do a painting.

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All these palettes
with colors, colors,

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color combinations.

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I take a red, mix it with a bit

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of that and a bit of that,

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and the same with
a bit of something else,

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until you have this
kind of variation,

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and then...

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then you feel yourself
surrounded by options.

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And then there is
a white canvas.

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And you say, okay... start.

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Sometimes I need
this to play around

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simply with material.

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This is what, I think,
in the end fascinates me

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about painting, it\"s so fragile.

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While it\"s wet,
it\"s extremely fragile.

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Even just to put
a color or a gesture,

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and the whole thing is going
in a different direction.

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And uh, it\"s completely
in my power.

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I always said it was
better to be lucky than smart.

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And part of it
is being in the right place

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at the right time.

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And finding out
that what you\"re doing

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happens to correspond
with what the art world wants,

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they cross paths.

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If you get there
a couple years too early,

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no one is interested,

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if you get there
a couple years too late,

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no one\"s interested.

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You cannot program
success as an artist.

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You can\"t say...

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\"This is what I need
to do and then

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I \"ll go be successful.\"

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You\"re doomed to follower status

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if you do that
and you\"ll never be successful.

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And also ran another,
you know, weak imitation

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of somebody else.

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You\"re much better off
doing what gives you urgency

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and excites you,

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and hope that it will
correspond at some point

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in your career
to what the art world wants.

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♪

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Many artists weren\"t
interesting.

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Maybe I was doing
some interesting stuff,

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you know, at the beginning.

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At the beginning,
you don\"t do masterpieces,

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you don\"t do things
that will change art history,

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you do some interesting things,

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like many other people.

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Right now, maybe I\"m...

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If you think how many
interesting...

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how many people like me
seven years ago

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are in the world right now

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in little garages or whatever...

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probably they won\"t
have this luck.

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I grew up with art,

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it kind of runs in our family.

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Everyone is very
involved in art.

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My grandparents,
Eileen and Michael Cohen,

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and Susan and Michael Hort,
are art collectors.

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And my mom, Jamie Hort,

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is an art consultant.

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♪

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♪

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♪

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♪

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♪

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Some people today,

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which is what worries
me about the art world,

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there\"s too much instant coffee.

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Too many people
building collections

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that have no idea
what they\"re doing.

00:19:49.667 --> 00:19:51.583
They don\"t know
anything about art,

00:19:51.584 --> 00:19:53.166
but they just write checks.

00:19:53.167 --> 00:19:54.249
And then they write checks,

00:19:54.250 --> 00:19:55.416
and then they
build a collection.

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That\"s not the way to do it.

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Art requires patience.

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To build a collection
you need to require

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some critical thought,
you need to learn,

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you don\"t just jump in
the wagon and say,

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\"I\"m a collector.\"

00:20:09.501 --> 00:20:11.750
I mean, collecting
involves a lot of things.

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We have lectures here,
we have workshops.

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We send young students
from Miami to Europe

00:20:17.334 --> 00:20:18.500
two weeks a year.

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We have another program
with New York.

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Collecting is... encompasses
a lot of responsibilities,

00:20:23.584 --> 00:20:27.583
which my husband and I,
I think we are aware of them

00:20:27.584 --> 00:20:28.999
and are doing them.

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.082
It\"s not just buying.

00:20:30.083 --> 00:20:34.999
Some people buy works,
but that\"s not a collector.

00:20:43.834 --> 00:20:48.249
Through various friendships
people would be saying to me,

00:20:48.250 --> 00:20:51.833
\"Perhaps you should
stop looking at sports

00:20:51.834 --> 00:20:54.917
and women and start
looking at art.\"

00:20:54.918 --> 00:20:58.249
And I said, \"Okay, I can
combine that, can\"t I?\"

00:20:58.250 --> 00:21:00.166
And I started going to galleries

00:21:00.167 --> 00:21:03.500
and the more I was
exposed to it,

00:21:03.501 --> 00:21:05.666
the more interesting it seemed,

00:21:05.667 --> 00:21:09.584
and that\"s how I emerged.

00:21:35.501 --> 00:21:38.583
We opened this space
11 years ago.

00:21:38.584 --> 00:21:43.583
We ran out of space
at my residence,

00:21:43.584 --> 00:21:46.082
and we had to get a venue.

00:21:46.083 --> 00:21:49.917
And we decided not only
to get more space,

00:21:49.918 --> 00:21:54.333
but also become
a primary purpose

00:21:54.334 --> 00:21:58.334
of educating kids.

00:22:01.918 --> 00:22:04.833
Do you think that
these public spaces

00:22:04.834 --> 00:22:06.500
like yours and in museums,

00:22:06.501 --> 00:22:08.999
they really fit it all together?

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.416
Well, eventually a museum,

00:22:12.417 --> 00:22:14.333
if they\"re not a Kunstmuseum,

00:22:14.334 --> 00:22:16.333
they need to get a collection.

00:22:16.334 --> 00:22:19.666
And they cannot afford
a collection today,

00:22:19.667 --> 00:22:27.249
so they have to have
a symbiotic relationship

00:22:27.250 --> 00:22:31.166
with collectors who might have

00:22:31.167 --> 00:22:32.999
public facilities.

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:38.166
So there\"s a certain
détente that has to occur

00:22:38.167 --> 00:22:39.666
in order to get a collection.

00:22:39.667 --> 00:22:43.666
Museums cannot afford
to go out and buy,

00:22:43.667 --> 00:22:47.082
for the most part,
museum-quality work.

00:22:47.083 --> 00:22:51.333
They can get work,
but it might not be

00:22:51.334 --> 00:22:53.917
grade A work.

00:22:53.918 --> 00:22:56.249
And I have no number.

00:22:56.250 --> 00:22:57.083
Okay.

00:22:57.084 --> 00:22:58.998
Andy Master,
the man with no number.

00:22:58.999 --> 00:23:02.666
Lot number six,
the first of the great works

00:23:02.667 --> 00:23:04.666
from the Andy Williams
collection,

00:23:04.667 --> 00:23:07.416
this is the Basquiat of 1982

00:23:07.417 --> 00:23:10.082
showing you on the easel
\"Furious Man.\"

00:23:10.083 --> 00:23:13.666
And I\"m going to open
this at 800, 900, at 900...

00:23:13.667 --> 00:23:15.333
One million with Amy,
one million one hundred,

00:23:15.334 --> 00:23:17.333
one million two hundred,
one million three hundred,

00:23:17.334 --> 00:23:19.249
one million four hundred,
one million five,

00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:21.333
one million six,
one million seven,

00:23:21.334 --> 00:23:22.998
one million eight
in another place,

00:23:22.999 --> 00:23:24.666
one million nine is here.

00:23:24.667 --> 00:23:25.501
Two million dollars.

00:23:25.502 --> 00:23:27.583
Would you like three, sir?
You sure?

00:23:27.584 --> 00:23:28.584
Thank you for the bid?

00:23:28.585 --> 00:23:29.998
Three million two.

00:23:29.999 --> 00:23:33.500
Three million
two and a half here.

00:23:33.501 --> 00:23:36.416
Just in time, four million.

00:23:36.417 --> 00:23:38.666
4,200,000.

00:23:38.667 --> 00:23:40.666
Give me four-four please.

00:23:40.667 --> 00:23:41.417
Four two at hand.

00:23:41.418 --> 00:23:44.082
Still with the gentlemen
in the very back of the room

00:23:44.083 --> 00:23:45.166
at four million two.

00:23:45.167 --> 00:23:47.416
For the first
of the Andy Williams works,

00:23:47.417 --> 00:23:49.333
here it is, the Basquiat

00:23:49.334 --> 00:23:50.666
at four million two.

00:23:50.667 --> 00:23:51.334
Last chance!

00:23:51.335 --> 00:23:57.334
Here it is at 4,200,000.

00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.584
Four million four.

00:24:03.999 --> 00:24:07.249
Four million six.

00:24:07.250 --> 00:24:08.750
Four six.

00:24:08.751 --> 00:24:10.833
Four eight could be next.

00:24:10.834 --> 00:24:11.751
Four six for the gentlemen

00:24:11.752 --> 00:24:13.917
in the very back of the room,
once again.

00:24:13.918 --> 00:24:15.333
Anybody here?

00:24:15.334 --> 00:24:16.334
Four million eight.

00:24:16.335 --> 00:24:18.249
You heard it, sir,
four million eight.

00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:19.998
Will you give me five?

00:24:19.999 --> 00:24:23.999
Good for you,
five million dollars is offered.

00:24:25.250 --> 00:24:26.333
Brett, don\"t look away from me,

00:24:26.334 --> 00:24:30.666
\"cause I\" ll sell here
at five million dollars.

00:24:30.667 --> 00:24:32.082
Here it is.

00:24:32.083 --> 00:24:32.751
Hold on then...

00:24:32.752 --> 00:24:35.998
at $5 million, your bid, sir.

00:24:35.999 --> 00:24:36.918
Last chance.

00:24:36.919 --> 00:24:40.667
Sold to you, sir, at $5 million.

00:24:43.083 --> 00:24:44.833
Wonderful, thank you very much.

00:24:44.834 --> 00:24:46.833
We\"ve had an explosion
of private museums

00:24:46.834 --> 00:24:50.082
but none of these museums
are much older

00:24:50.083 --> 00:24:51.500
than 15, 20 years,

00:24:51.501 --> 00:24:53.917
and most of these museums,
I believe,

00:24:53.918 --> 00:24:55.917
are still...

00:24:55.918 --> 00:24:58.750
the people who
formed them are alive

00:24:58.751 --> 00:24:59.998
and still funding them.

00:24:59.999 --> 00:25:01.833
What will happen
100 years from now

00:25:01.834 --> 00:25:05.999
when these collectors
are all dead...

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.583
their museums are there,

00:25:08.584 --> 00:25:10.917
they may or may not
have left adequate funds

00:25:10.918 --> 00:25:13.750
for their museums
to be maintained,

00:25:13.751 --> 00:25:18.249
um, the museums may or may not
have interesting works

00:25:18.250 --> 00:25:20.750
that people continue
to want to see

00:25:20.751 --> 00:25:24.416
100 years from now.

00:25:24.417 --> 00:25:26.250
We\"ll see.

00:29:25.334 --> 00:29:33.334
♪

00:29:54.667 --> 00:30:01.416
We\"re getting to a critical
part of the process.

00:30:01.417 --> 00:30:03.500
It works in stages.

00:30:03.501 --> 00:30:07.166
And this is about
the eighth stage

00:30:07.167 --> 00:30:08.999
of the process.

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.750
It\"s gonna be messy.

00:30:11.751 --> 00:30:13.998
I\"m applying what, hopefully,

00:30:13.999 --> 00:30:15.750
is the last layer of paint.

00:30:15.751 --> 00:30:19.500
It\"s been built up
in several layers,

00:30:19.501 --> 00:30:24.583
and this procedure
involves the last level.

00:30:24.584 --> 00:30:32.584
♪

00:30:35.667 --> 00:30:37.998
First of all, I have given

00:30:37.999 --> 00:30:39.583
a lot of guidance
to young artists.

00:30:39.584 --> 00:30:42.833
The question comes up
about money all the time.

00:30:42.834 --> 00:30:45.500
And my advice
to all of them is that...

00:30:45.501 --> 00:30:49.333
money should not be
your primary concern.

00:30:49.334 --> 00:30:50.999
It shouldn\"t.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.082
Even myself...
I need money.

00:30:53.083 --> 00:30:54.833
Every artist needs money.

00:30:54.834 --> 00:30:58.666
Artists need money,
we need financial support

00:30:58.667 --> 00:31:01.917
the same as everybody else
in society.

00:31:01.918 --> 00:31:03.999
Especially if you\"re
in the visual arts.

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.583
If you\"re a painter,
if you\"re a photographer.

00:31:07.584 --> 00:31:09.166
Any of those arts.

00:31:09.167 --> 00:31:11.416
It takes money, man!

00:31:11.417 --> 00:31:12.417
I\"m a painter.

00:31:12.418 --> 00:31:14.333
I have to have a studio.

00:31:14.334 --> 00:31:16.917
I have to keep my studio
stocked with materials.

00:31:16.918 --> 00:31:19.166
And particularly,
the way I work,

00:31:19.167 --> 00:31:22.333
I\"ve put a lot
of money out for materials

00:31:22.334 --> 00:31:24.500
during the course of a year.

00:31:24.501 --> 00:31:28.583
So, we can\"t do
what we do without money.

00:31:28.584 --> 00:31:30.416
But at the same time,
in saying that,

00:31:30.417 --> 00:31:33.416
in all honesty,
I don\"t think money

00:31:33.417 --> 00:31:38.833
should be the primary
criteria of why one

00:31:38.834 --> 00:31:41.334
would be an artist.

00:31:41.501 --> 00:31:43.998
You see a big difference
with a lot of younger

00:31:43.999 --> 00:31:45.416
artists nowadays.

00:31:45.417 --> 00:31:47.082
Unfortunately.

00:31:47.083 --> 00:31:47.751
Unfortunately.

00:31:47.752 --> 00:31:49.666
Unfortunately,
I meet younger artists,

00:31:49.667 --> 00:31:53.750
and older artists, too,
where the emphasis

00:31:53.751 --> 00:31:58.416
is placed entirely
upon how much money one makes.

00:31:58.417 --> 00:32:03.500
Indeed, it gets
even worse than that.

00:32:03.501 --> 00:32:07.416
To be thought of
as an important artist

00:32:07.417 --> 00:32:11.417
comes down to how much
money do you make.

00:32:29.083 --> 00:32:37.083
♪

00:33:27.584 --> 00:33:33.584
♪

00:34:08.999 --> 00:34:16.999
♪

00:34:43.999 --> 00:34:48.166
If you artificially
suppress a price enough

00:34:48.167 --> 00:34:50.416
you encourage speculation.

00:34:50.417 --> 00:34:52.750
So as a guy
who\"s on the waiting list

00:34:52.751 --> 00:34:55.750
to get a painting forever,

00:34:55.751 --> 00:34:57.082
and um...

00:34:57.083 --> 00:35:03.333
he was supposed to
give it to a museum in Texas.

00:35:03.334 --> 00:35:04.917
So he\"s on the waiting
list forever,

00:35:04.918 --> 00:35:08.833
he bought the painting,
he sold it the next day.

00:35:08.834 --> 00:35:10.082
So we called him up and said,

00:35:10.083 --> 00:35:12.998
\"What the hell is going on?

00:35:12.999 --> 00:35:14.333
I thought you wanted
this painting.

00:35:14.334 --> 00:35:15.583
You were waiting
for this painting,

00:35:15.584 --> 00:35:17.666
you were gonna eventually
give it to a museum.\"

00:35:17.667 --> 00:35:21.583
He said, \"Well, I may
be an art collector,

00:35:21.584 --> 00:35:24.333
but I\"m a business man first.

00:35:24.334 --> 00:35:27.666
Any time I can triple
my money in one day,

00:35:27.667 --> 00:35:30.917
I \"m going to do it.\"

00:35:30.918 --> 00:35:32.500
Lot number nine was withdrawn,

00:35:32.501 --> 00:35:33.334
as I mentioned earlier.

00:35:33.335 --> 00:35:34.999
So we move to the
\"Dustheads\" of Basquiat,

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.999
lot number 10 showing
on my left and your right.

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:40.249
The 1982 work.

00:35:40.250 --> 00:35:43.166
And we\"ll open this
at 20, 21 million,

00:35:43.167 --> 00:35:46.333
$22 million,
give me 25, is here.

00:35:46.334 --> 00:35:49.666
Twenty-seven,
28 with Mr. Cuseur.

00:35:49.667 --> 00:35:52.998
You are 29?

00:35:52.999 --> 00:35:54.166
I have it ahead of you.

00:35:54.167 --> 00:35:55.416
$29 million, thank you.

00:35:55.417 --> 00:35:58.998
Louie, at 29 million.

00:35:58.999 --> 00:36:00.666
And 5.

00:36:00.667 --> 00:36:02.998
29 million 500 thousand.

00:36:02.999 --> 00:36:05.750
Will you give me 30 million?

00:36:05.751 --> 00:36:06.501
35.

00:36:06.502 --> 00:36:07.999
35 million.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.166
Give me 36, Brett.

00:36:09.167 --> 00:36:09.999
Thirty-five I have.

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:14.583
At $35 million,
35 million 500 thousand.

00:36:14.584 --> 00:36:19.666
Thirty-five million
500 thousand is with Brett.

00:36:19.667 --> 00:36:21.833
35.5.

00:36:21.834 --> 00:36:24.249
36 million.

00:36:24.250 --> 00:36:25.083
40.

00:36:25.084 --> 00:36:26.917
$40 million!

00:36:26.918 --> 00:36:30.917
At 40 now,
$40 million for the Basquiat.

00:36:30.918 --> 00:36:31.751
One.

00:36:31.752 --> 00:36:33.082
$41 million.

00:36:33.083 --> 00:36:34.583
That\"s the third jump-in.

00:36:34.584 --> 00:36:36.249
Will it work this time?

00:36:36.250 --> 00:36:39.249
At 43,500,000.

00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:41.166
It works!

00:36:41.167 --> 00:36:42.333
I think.

00:36:42.334 --> 00:36:44.500
At 43,500,000.

00:36:44.501 --> 00:36:48.666
$43,500,000 for the Basquiat.

00:36:48.667 --> 00:36:50.999
Not yours Brett, it\"s with Louie

00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.917
at $43,500,000.

00:36:55.918 --> 00:36:59.417
Here it is, last chance.

00:37:01.417 --> 00:37:05.334
Sold at $43,500,000.

00:38:41.667 --> 00:38:48.584
♪

00:38:53.083 --> 00:39:01.083
♪

00:39:33.501 --> 00:39:36.249
These are...

00:39:36.250 --> 00:39:37.167
I have made ahead of time.

00:39:37.168 --> 00:39:39.998
Like, the whole table,
I have thousands of them.

00:39:39.999 --> 00:39:43.166
I call them,
taking a clue from Duchamp,

00:39:43.167 --> 00:39:46.583
I call them \"ready nows.\"

00:39:46.584 --> 00:39:49.166
This is a circle.

00:39:49.167 --> 00:39:51.998
Laid out exactly, right?

00:39:51.999 --> 00:39:55.333
If I wanted to,
I could lay this out exactly.

00:39:55.334 --> 00:39:57.583
But to continue
the theme that I\"m working with,

00:39:57.584 --> 00:40:02.998
in terms of warping
a geometrical figure,

00:40:02.999 --> 00:40:04.999
watch.

00:40:09.999 --> 00:40:12.666
Artists has to realize...

00:40:12.667 --> 00:40:14.998
doing the painting is one thing.

00:40:14.999 --> 00:40:16.416
You\"re in your studio alone

00:40:16.417 --> 00:40:21.750
and you are producing it
for you and only for you.

00:40:21.751 --> 00:40:25.166
When that work
leaves the studio,

00:40:25.167 --> 00:40:28.583
it\"s an entirely
different thing.

00:40:28.584 --> 00:40:29.584
Entirely different.

00:40:29.585 --> 00:40:33.750
You better learn to deal
with the business aspect.

00:40:33.751 --> 00:40:35.583
If you don\"t learn to do that,

00:40:35.584 --> 00:40:38.334
it will eat you alive.

00:40:52.334 --> 00:40:54.333
As far as auctions
are concerned,

00:40:54.334 --> 00:41:00.500
the bottom line is
that until an artist\"s work

00:41:00.501 --> 00:41:02.082
goes to auction,

00:41:02.083 --> 00:41:06.500
we do not have a public value

00:41:06.501 --> 00:41:08.583
on that work.

00:41:08.584 --> 00:41:10.998
I have tried
to avoid the auctions

00:41:10.999 --> 00:41:14.500
because with no support
in the past,

00:41:14.501 --> 00:41:17.583
it would\"ve been
devastating for me.

00:41:17.584 --> 00:41:19.917
I mean, I\"ve done things like

00:41:19.918 --> 00:41:22.166
through other people finding out

00:41:22.167 --> 00:41:23.998
if there\"s something
coming up on auction

00:41:23.999 --> 00:41:25.583
to do my best and make sure

00:41:25.584 --> 00:41:27.249
that someone is there
to grab that work

00:41:27.250 --> 00:41:29.249
before it hits
the auction, right?

00:41:29.250 --> 00:41:31.166
Because if you go to auction

00:41:31.167 --> 00:41:32.998
and you don\"t have any support,

00:41:32.999 --> 00:41:34.249
if you don\"t have somebody there

00:41:34.250 --> 00:41:37.249
in that audience
that\"s willing to speak up

00:41:37.250 --> 00:41:39.750
and put their money
where their mouth is,

00:41:39.751 --> 00:41:41.999
it can be devastating.

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:44.082
It can be very bad.

00:41:44.083 --> 00:41:45.583
Always the artist
is asked to take

00:41:45.584 --> 00:41:46.917
a photograph next to a painting,

00:41:46.918 --> 00:41:49.082
or the collector
who owns the painting

00:41:49.083 --> 00:41:49.667
was to be next.

00:41:49.668 --> 00:41:52.082
And you know it\"s kind of
marking the territory.

00:41:52.083 --> 00:41:54.666
This is my painting.

00:41:54.667 --> 00:41:56.918
♪

00:42:07.667 --> 00:42:15.083
♪

00:42:28.083 --> 00:42:33.833
♪

00:42:33.834 --> 00:42:38.583
The painting was made
just in 2009.

00:42:38.584 --> 00:42:45.000
So to see it so quick
in auction and...

00:42:45.667 --> 00:42:48.249
somebody made
a lot of money out of it.

00:42:48.250 --> 00:42:50.416
Not me...

00:42:50.417 --> 00:42:54.583
the author of the painting.

00:42:54.584 --> 00:42:56.082
Gave me an odd feeling.

00:42:56.083 --> 00:42:59.500
I always said that an artist

00:42:59.501 --> 00:43:01.917
should never see an art fair

00:43:01.918 --> 00:43:03.082
or attend an auction.

00:43:03.083 --> 00:43:06.500
It\"s like taking a cow
on a guided tour

00:43:06.501 --> 00:43:07.750
of a slaughter house.

00:43:07.751 --> 00:43:10.082
You know, this sort
of the thing is going on,

00:43:10.083 --> 00:43:12.500
but you don\"t want to see it.

00:43:12.501 --> 00:43:16.417
It\"s really grotesque, you know?

00:43:17.334 --> 00:43:20.666
Lot number 18 now
is a superb Pollock.

00:43:20.667 --> 00:43:22.998
\"Number 19\" of 1948.

00:43:22.999 --> 00:43:24.249
Here it is,
ladies and gentlemen.

00:43:24.250 --> 00:43:25.416
And where should we open this?

00:43:25.417 --> 00:43:26.583
18 million to start it.

00:43:26.584 --> 00:43:28.750
18 million, 20 million.

00:43:28.751 --> 00:43:29.999
At $20 million.

00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.082
$22 million.

00:43:31.083 --> 00:43:32.998
At $24 million already.

00:43:32.999 --> 00:43:35.166
At $24 million.

00:43:35.167 --> 00:43:36.167
$24 million.

00:43:36.168 --> 00:43:37.998
Who\"s going to open this at 24?

00:43:37.999 --> 00:43:39.666
25 I\"ve taken here.

00:43:39.667 --> 00:43:41.917
And I\"m selling 26 million.

00:43:41.918 --> 00:43:42.998
27 million.

00:43:42.999 --> 00:43:45.166
At 27 million, not yours, Zack.

00:43:45.167 --> 00:43:47.666
27 I have in the sale room.

00:43:47.667 --> 00:43:48.584
With you, sir?

00:43:48.585 --> 00:43:49.750
28 million.

00:43:49.751 --> 00:43:50.751
29 million.

00:43:50.752 --> 00:43:51.833
At 29 then.

00:43:51.834 --> 00:43:53.666
At 29 million for the Pollock.

00:43:53.667 --> 00:43:55.998
30 million is here.

00:43:55.999 --> 00:43:56.667
Adding five, sir.

00:43:56.668 --> 00:43:58.583
35, I can tell you\"ve been here.

00:43:58.584 --> 00:44:00.082
At 35 million.

00:44:00.083 --> 00:44:01.416
36 million.

00:44:01.417 --> 00:44:03.917
On the aisle, 37 million.

00:44:03.918 --> 00:44:04.667
38 million.

00:44:04.668 --> 00:44:07.082
At 38 million now
for the Pollock.

00:44:07.083 --> 00:44:09.082
Here it is at 38 million.

00:44:09.083 --> 00:44:11.082
39 million.

00:44:11.083 --> 00:44:11.918
$40 million.

00:44:11.919 --> 00:44:15.249
- 41.
- 41 I\"ll take.

00:44:15.250 --> 00:44:16.333
Yes, sir?

00:44:16.334 --> 00:44:17.250
What about five?

00:44:17.251 --> 00:44:21.166
41 million, give me 42, sir.

00:44:21.167 --> 00:44:23.333
41 million,
would you give me 42?

00:44:23.334 --> 00:44:28.166
42 is with Francis
at $42 million.

00:44:28.167 --> 00:44:30.583
42 million there with Francis.

00:44:30.584 --> 00:44:33.166
Would you like 43, sir?

00:44:33.167 --> 00:44:34.333
43 million.

00:44:34.334 --> 00:44:38.416
Francis, would you like 44?

00:44:38.417 --> 00:44:39.583
$44 million.

00:44:39.584 --> 00:44:40.998
With Brett at 44 million.

00:44:40.999 --> 00:44:43.082
Give me 45, either of you.

00:44:43.083 --> 00:44:47.000
44 then is with
Brett Gorvy and selling.

00:44:48.250 --> 00:44:53.584
The \"48 Pollock at $44 million.

00:44:53.751 --> 00:44:57.334
44 million is bid.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.500
45 million is bid now.

00:45:01.501 --> 00:45:01.918
45!

00:45:01.919 --> 00:45:04.998
I have it,
I can\"t have it twice.

00:45:04.999 --> 00:45:07.501
46 million.

00:45:08.918 --> 00:45:11.999
Only said it once,
at 46 million with Brett.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.082
47 million.

00:45:15.083 --> 00:45:17.998
47 million in the sale room.

00:45:17.999 --> 00:45:20.083
48 million.

00:45:22.417 --> 00:45:26.417
48 million for the 1948 picture.

00:45:28.834 --> 00:45:29.834
At $48 million.

00:45:29.835 --> 00:45:33.751
$49 million is the lady\"s bid.

00:45:36.834 --> 00:45:39.082
Again to you all
here on the telephones.

00:45:39.083 --> 00:45:41.834
$50 million.

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:51.416
$50 million is bid
with Brett at 50.

00:45:51.417 --> 00:45:54.417
Would you like 51, madam?

00:45:56.667 --> 00:46:00.833
Here it is then at $50 million.

00:46:00.834 --> 00:46:03.083
51 million.

00:46:08.501 --> 00:46:11.083
$52 million.

00:46:13.250 --> 00:46:16.082
$52 million is Brett,
not yours, Amy.

00:46:16.083 --> 00:46:20.249
At $52 million for the Pollock.

00:46:20.250 --> 00:46:23.334
Will you give me 53?

00:46:25.918 --> 00:46:27.500
Last chance.

00:46:27.501 --> 00:46:29.666
Gonna knock it down here

00:46:29.667 --> 00:46:34.999
at $52 million.

00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:37.999
Sold at $52 million.

00:46:40.999 --> 00:46:44.166
In what we call
\"the art world\" right?

00:46:44.167 --> 00:46:48.833
It\"s an interrelated mechanism

00:46:48.834 --> 00:46:51.416
between the galleries,

00:46:51.417 --> 00:46:53.416
the collectors,

00:46:53.417 --> 00:46:54.417
the critics,

00:46:54.418 --> 00:46:57.082
the museum, museum directors,

00:46:57.083 --> 00:46:58.333
museum curators,

00:46:58.334 --> 00:46:59.083
and the auction houses.

00:46:59.084 --> 00:47:02.917
People don\"t like
to talk about this.

00:47:02.918 --> 00:47:07.666
The market place for art
is totally unregulated.

00:47:07.667 --> 00:47:09.833
We do not have an SEC.

00:47:09.834 --> 00:47:13.750
We don \"t, there\"s no such thing.

00:47:13.751 --> 00:47:15.998
Hell, people talk
about Wall Street.

00:47:15.999 --> 00:47:17.917
If they knew what was happening

00:47:17.918 --> 00:47:21.751
in a totally
unregulated system...

00:47:22.584 --> 00:47:28.750
Hell, insider trading, we could
put Wall Street to shame.

00:47:28.751 --> 00:47:32.166
That\"s the nature
of the business, you know?

00:47:32.167 --> 00:47:33.083
A lot of discussions about

00:47:33.084 --> 00:47:36.500
should there be
regulations, right?

00:47:36.501 --> 00:47:37.917
Eh!

00:47:37.918 --> 00:47:41.167
Why try to duplicate
Wall Street?

00:47:41.334 --> 00:47:47.166
In truth, I sort of enjoy
the free wielding aspect

00:47:47.167 --> 00:47:49.500
of what occurs.

00:47:49.501 --> 00:47:51.833
But you gotta remember,

00:47:51.834 --> 00:47:55.249
that \"s cool if you\" re
part of the inner circle,

00:47:55.250 --> 00:47:55.999
if you\"re not...

00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:57.666
If you\"re on the outside,

00:47:57.667 --> 00:47:59.249
then you might question, \"Hey...

00:47:59.250 --> 00:48:02.999
maybe we do need some
more regulations here.\"

00:48:09.083 --> 00:48:12.334
So they\"re confused.

00:50:47.834 --> 00:50:55.834
♪

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:42.666
Dealers and people
who have invested

00:51:42.667 --> 00:51:45.666
in an artist
make it their business,

00:51:45.667 --> 00:51:47.750
sometimes even syndicated.

00:51:47.751 --> 00:51:52.750
Meaning that they develop
investment strategies

00:51:52.751 --> 00:51:54.583
where a group of people
get together and says,

00:51:54.584 --> 00:51:59.500
\"Look, we own a large amount

00:51:59.501 --> 00:52:00.917
of this artist\"s work,

00:52:00.918 --> 00:52:03.750
and by jolly,
we\"re gonna protect it,

00:52:03.751 --> 00:52:05.082
because we want to invest...

00:52:05.083 --> 00:52:07.166
We want to protect
our investment.\"

00:52:07.167 --> 00:52:09.833
It\"s no different
from any other aspect

00:52:09.834 --> 00:52:11.750
of the capitalist system.

00:52:11.751 --> 00:52:16.249
Everybody develops
investment strategies.

00:52:16.250 --> 00:52:19.333
Syndication, yes, indeed.

00:52:19.334 --> 00:52:20.750
But it\"s true,
I think that is true.

00:52:20.751 --> 00:52:23.500
I mean, I think sometimes
there are...

00:52:23.501 --> 00:52:26.166
Like, I never sell
to any of those people,

00:52:26.167 --> 00:52:28.166
but they get them,
and sometimes you\"ll sell

00:52:28.167 --> 00:52:30.082
to someone who you thought
was a good client,

00:52:30.083 --> 00:52:31.416
and you\"re not always right,

00:52:31.417 --> 00:52:34.333
and they will then
sell it on to somebody else

00:52:34.334 --> 00:52:35.334
who will be...

00:52:35.335 --> 00:52:36.917
a syndicate will buy it.

00:52:36.918 --> 00:52:38.416
A few syndicates have
actually asked me

00:52:38.417 --> 00:52:41.917
a couple of times
to be an advisor,

00:52:41.918 --> 00:52:43.917
which I have not done.

00:52:43.918 --> 00:52:46.666
But then you never
sell to those people again?

00:52:46.667 --> 00:52:47.998
That \"s the thing, you don\" t.

00:52:47.999 --> 00:52:49.917
And actually, one of
the things that a lot

00:52:49.918 --> 00:52:52.917
of art dealers will
be very careful of,

00:52:52.918 --> 00:52:53.999
the good art dealers,

00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.249
they will keep track
on what comes up for auction,

00:52:57.250 --> 00:53:00.416
and if they see
that something has come up

00:53:00.417 --> 00:53:03.750
by a good client
of theirs for sale at auction,

00:53:03.751 --> 00:53:06.416
they will make a note
of that and say,

00:53:06.417 --> 00:53:08.500
\"Okay, so we see
what they\"re trying to do.

00:53:08.501 --> 00:53:11.583
They\"re just trying
to make money out of this

00:53:11.584 --> 00:53:12.501
in a very aggressive way.

00:53:12.502 --> 00:53:15.333
And we\"re not interested
in doing business with them

00:53:15.334 --> 00:53:18.917
because they\"re not
a partner in this.

00:53:18.918 --> 00:53:21.917
And they \"re not loyal.\"

00:53:21.918 --> 00:53:24.998
♪

00:53:24.999 --> 00:53:28.249
Sometimes one of those
dealers will indeed

00:53:28.250 --> 00:53:30.082
be representing the artist,

00:53:30.083 --> 00:53:32.082
and they might be
putting a piece

00:53:32.083 --> 00:53:32.918
up for auction

00:53:32.919 --> 00:53:36.666
and getting a group
of other people to bid on it.

00:53:36.667 --> 00:53:38.833
It happens in every
market out there

00:53:38.834 --> 00:53:42.416
from metals to gold,
to anything,

00:53:42.417 --> 00:53:43.666
it happens in
the primitive market

00:53:43.667 --> 00:53:46.833
where they will persuade
other people to bid on it

00:53:46.834 --> 00:53:47.751
and to bid the price up.

00:53:47.752 --> 00:53:49.750
But that \"s illegal, isn\" t it?

00:53:49.751 --> 00:53:51.917
That\"s totally illegal.

00:53:51.918 --> 00:53:54.333
Well, they\"re...
How can I put this?

00:53:54.334 --> 00:53:59.917
There may be...

00:53:59.918 --> 00:54:01.998
I\"m...

00:54:01.999 --> 00:54:05.249
I\"m sure there are,
is I guess the answer

00:54:05.250 --> 00:54:06.000
I should give.

00:54:06.001 --> 00:54:07.333
I\"m sure there are some people

00:54:07.334 --> 00:54:09.999
who are trying
to manipulate the market

00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:12.166
of young artists.

00:54:12.167 --> 00:54:12.999
Young or old artists.

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.833
I don\"t know that age
is really the requirement here.

00:54:15.834 --> 00:54:18.998
Other than, let\"s say,
being able to buy

00:54:18.999 --> 00:54:21.333
at inexpensive prices.

00:54:21.334 --> 00:54:25.833
But I\"m not so certain
that the market manipulations

00:54:25.834 --> 00:54:28.416
will be effective
in the long run.

00:54:28.417 --> 00:54:31.666
They may be effective
in the short run.

00:54:31.667 --> 00:54:33.666
They often are.

00:54:33.667 --> 00:54:35.917
Again, the question
depends how people collect

00:54:35.918 --> 00:54:37.833
whether they\"re buying
with their ears

00:54:37.834 --> 00:54:40.750
or with their eyes.

00:54:40.751 --> 00:54:42.750
If all that matters
to a collector

00:54:42.751 --> 00:54:46.166
is that every time
an artist\"s artwork

00:54:46.167 --> 00:54:49.082
goes up at auction,
the price keeps going up,

00:54:49.083 --> 00:54:52.333
then they should form
a collection based on that

00:54:52.334 --> 00:54:54.416
and nothing else.

00:54:54.417 --> 00:54:56.500
It wouldn\"t hold together.

00:54:56.501 --> 00:54:58.249
And it probably wouldn\"t
be a particularly good

00:54:58.250 --> 00:55:02.082
investment either,
again, because the art world

00:55:02.083 --> 00:55:04.833
is a not rational place.

00:55:04.834 --> 00:55:12.834
♪

00:56:36.584 --> 00:56:44.584
♪